New Iraqi Air Force in Training

[seruriermarshal]

Sat Apr 17,12:47 PM ET

By JIM KRANE, Associated Press Writer

BAGHDAD, Iraq - Iraq (news - web sites)'s once mighty air force is being rebuilt from scratch but without planes for now and with just 100 men who are currently undergoing training in Jordan, the U.S.-led coalition announced Saturday.


By October, the Iraqi air force is expected to have a small fleet of light reconnaissance planes, a pair of Boeing C-130 Hercules transport craft and six Bell UH-1H Iroquois helicopters.


That fleet will triple by next April, when the force is expected to swell to 500, but there are no plans to purchase any fighter-jets or bombers, U.S. and British military officials told reporters Saturday.


In May, the U.S.-led coalition disbanded Iraq's once massive armed forces. A new force is being reconstituted, mainly for internal security purposes.


Iraq's previous air force was once considered the best in the Arab world. Founded in 1931, it fought in numerous conflicts in the Middle East, battling the British in 1941 and Israel in 1948 and 1967.


Saddam Hussein (news - web sites) invested a huge portion of the country's oil wealth to equip the force during the 1980-88 war with Iran. At its zenith in the late 1980s, it listed nearly 750 combat aircraft, including Soviet MiGs and Sukhois and French Mirage fighters.


Iraq's air force fell apart after two wars with the United States and a dozen years of international sanctions, dropping to just 100 air-worthy jets by 2002. Saddam's military tried to salvage its last few planes by burying them in the desert.


U.S. forces unearthed the planes, which had their wings snapped off by the weight of the sand. The grit also destroyed the planes' avionics and hydraulic systems, the officials said. None of the old Iraqi air force, once worth billions, can be returned to service, the officials said. Many of the craft are being cut up for scrap.


Iraq also to announce the creation of a 400-member Iraqi Coastal Defense Force next week, which will patrol the country's 50-mile coastline with a fleet of five patrol boats, a U.S. military official said. Saddam's regime bought the boats from China, but they were blocked from reaching Iraq. The craft are currently being refurbished in the United Arab Emirates, the official said.


Iraq's air and naval forces will operate under the nominal control of the just-established Iraqi Ministry of Defense, which itself is subordinate to the U.S.-led coalition military here. Even after some sovereignty is handed to an interim Iraqi government — scheduled to take place on June 30 — the U.S. military will retain command over Iraq's defense forces, including the air force and coastal defense forces.


Senior Iraqi air force staff will be sent to the United States for training, according to the U.S.-led coalition authority. A yet-to-be-selected Iraqi major general will command the force, the coalition said.


The air force's chief role will be to patrol Iraq's international borders with Iran, Turkey, Syria, Jordan, Saudi Arabia and Kuwait.


Most of the force will be stationed at former Iraqi air bases in Baghdad and Taji, just north of the Iraqi capital. Smaller units will be based in the northern city of Kirkuk and Basra in the south.


By contrast, in the 1990s, Iraq had 24 fully equipped air bases and about 30 emergency dispersal fields.


:roll:

[mustamato]

None of the old Iraqi air force, once worth billions, can be returned to service, the officials said.

Yeah... so US can buy 100 or so of these to the Iraqi AF :)

http://www.airpower.at/images/jas/IMG0002_gal5g.jpg

Or wait a minute, then they would become a threat. Not good.

[Michael RVR]

Wasn't there some debate recently over the Afghan AirForce ?

I remember reading it went something along the lines of : They'd probably accomplish more with turboprop attack aircraft, but the US has no experience with them so it probably wont happen.

:|

[Uncle Sam]

None of the old Iraqi air force, once worth billions, can be returned to service, the officials said.

Yeah... so US can buy 100 or so of these to the Iraqi AF :)

http://www.airpower.at/images/jas/IMG0002_gal5g.jpg

Or wait a minute, then they would become a threat. Not good.

Shoveling more sh*t I see....

[Ratamacue]

None of the old Iraqi air force, once worth billions, can be returned to service, the officials said.

Yeah... so US can buy 100 or so of these to the Iraqi AF :)

http://www.airpower.at/images/jas/IMG0002_gal5g.jpg

Or wait a minute, then they would become a threat. Not good.

Way to hijack the thread, man.

[Macs.]

Wasn't there some debate recently over the Afghan AirForce ?

I remember reading it went something along the lines of : They'd probably accomplish more with turboprop attack aircraft, but the US has no experience with them so it probably wont happen.

:|

I think the Afgahns are already using Hinds.

[ShotOver]

Yeah, good on you... troll.
:roll:

[Flagg]

Mustamato.......although I reckon the Grippen is a heck of a plane...somehow I doubt much more than a small minority of aircraft procured by/for the new Iraqi Air Force will be non-American made.

However the small number of Boeing and Bell products were procured thus far doesn't really matter....what does is the training/spares/service/supply chain infrastructure that will be needed to support them......once in place it will be cheaper to add "like" airframes than something completely different......and once Boeing's got it's foot in the door..it's likely to kick it wide open......

one small round in the Iraqi commerce "war"

[Uninen]

No offence but this is BS!

Just like with the Army also, they break up a fairy fuctional machine and send the experts to home, fight against coalition, and hire some "newbies" to replace the "machine".

:petting:

[mustamato]

Mustamato.......although I reckon the Grippen is a heck of a plane...somehow I doubt much more than a small minority of aircraft procured by/for the new Iraqi Air Force will be non-American made.

However the small number of Boeing and Bell products were procured thus far doesn't really matter....what does is the training/spares/service/supply chain infrastructure that will be needed to support them......once in place it will be cheaper to add "like" airframes than something completely different......and once Boeing's got it's foot in the door..it's likely to kick it wide open......

one small round in the Iraqi commerce "war"

Well of course, if Iraq will get fighters in the near future I assume that it will
be 20-30 F-16A/B´s that is retired from some NATO-country. I don´t think any
of Iraq´s neigbours is interested in seeing a strong Iraqi military, and as long
as US have a say in Iraqi matters (which could be for decades from now on)
they will see to it that countries like Saudi-Arabia, Kuwait of course, and hmhm
Israel etc doesn´t have to worry about Iraq.

In the long perspective, well we still have Syria and Iran, that is not very liked
by the current administration in Washington. A US-friendly Iraq with its own
military, and to some extenth AF could be usefull. But then they will need something
more than just "a few light recon planes".


I think the Afgahns are already using Hinds.

President Kharzai doesn´t seem to run **** outside Kabul. So I don´t know if
it´s the warlords that operates them, but there are some Hinds in Afghanistan
atleast. Some pictures from 2000:

http://www.ciriello.com/site/pix/46/461010.jpg
Two United Front Mi-24 (and shadow of Mi-8)

The northern alliance also received some major weapon donations from Russia
after 2001, I think they might have included some Hinds.

[Uninen]

mustamato,

Just that you know, the plan is Iraq still being in position to "stabilize the region" IE having very strong military, but this time in hands on "democrazy"............

[usa320]

I think the Iraqis should get whatever functioning planes remain from the old regime, but i doubt its anymore than you could count on your fingers. For the most part what they need is C-130's, UH-1's, some light props for basic training- maybe T-6 Texans or something, and i think they should get between 10 and 16 L-39 Albatross light jets. The L-39' was made by Russia. IT is used for jet training, light attack and armed recon.

http://www.modelspot.com/photo/iat02/l39.jpg

I think L-39's would be a good choice for both a new Afghan and Iraqi air force.

They are good enough to give them some combat capability, but not to the point where if they landed in the wrong hands they would pose a serious threat.

Also, Iraq and Afghanistan still have a handful of Illyushiun and Tupolev transport and passenger aircraft. I think an airline would benefit both countries economically. Afghanistan's Ariana airlines are already flying, but Iraq isnt safe enough to have air service.

[seruriermarshal]

New Iraq AirForce only need A-1 and UH-1 .

http://en.wikipedia.org/upload/7/75/A1.skyraider.750pix.jpg

http://fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ac/uh-1_huey_01.jpg

[Brozozo]

How about finding and training some reliable and trustworthy pilots before investing cash in any serious hardware?

[seruriermarshal]

How about finding and training some reliable and trustworthy pilots before investing cash in any serious hardware?

In fact nobody believe reliable and trustworthy pilots in Iraq , I'm afraid they will use new UH-1 attack allies (like 911)......

:(

[Uninen]

How about finding and training some reliable and trustworthy pilots before investing cash in any serious hardware?

In fact nobody believe reliable and trustworthy pilots in Iraq , I'm afraid they will use new UH-1 attack allies (like 911)......

:(

Well now..

One MiG-23 pilot once aborted his bombing training mission nd attacked one of the presidental palaces in which Saddam happened to be at the moment.........

His security detail shot the plane down with MANPADS, and its claimed the Saddam himself dealed some fast justice to the pilot that was stupid enough to bail out of his striken plane..............

So things like that arent completely unheard in Iraq, even before Americans......

[Brozozo]

How about finding and training some reliable and trustworthy pilots before investing cash in any serious hardware?

In fact nobody believe reliable and trustworthy pilots in Iraq , I'm afraid they will use new UH-1 attack allies (like 911)......

:(

Well now..

One MiG-23 pilot once aborted his bombing training mission nd attacked one of the presidental palaces in which Saddam happened to be at the moment.........

His security detail shot the plane down with MANPADS, and its claimed the Saddam himself dealed some fast justice to the pilot that was stupid enough to bail out of his striken plane..............

So things like that arent completely unheard in Iraq, even before Americans......

Where did you hear this?

Or, even better, can you dig up a link?

[usa320]

I cant find a link, but it is true...i think it happened in 97 or 98.

[Uninen]

http://www.acig.org/

There was a article about this once, cant find it now.......

http://www.kuna.net.kw/Story.asp?DSNO=457969

"KUWAIT, Oct 8 (KUNA) -- Iraqi President Saddam Hussein has recently escaped ???
??an assassination attempt when a military pilot flying a Soviet-made warplane ???
??made a botched bid to bomb a presidential palace where the leader was present, ???
??a Kuwaiti daily newspaper reported on Tuesday.???
??Citing "well-informed Iraqi sources," the Arabic-language daily, Al-Qabas ???
??said air defenses of Saddam's personal guards shot down the warplane when the ???
??pilot tried to bomb Al-Tharthar palace last week.???
??The Mig-23 had taken off from Al-Bakr base, 50 kilometers from Baghdad on ???
??Monday to take part in a bombing drill on targets east of the Tigris river, ???
??but the airman veered off the aircraft immediately when the drill started, ???
??speeding toward Saddam's palace, located on Al-Tharthar lake.???
??The airman, whose name and rank were not mentioned by the Kuwaiti ???
??newspaper, succeeded in reaching the target zone, but the aircraft was struck ???
??with a Strella missile that was fired from a ground emplacement.???
??Al-Qabas indicated that the warplane crashed and the pilot, who suffered ???
??various wounds, was arrested.???
??The sources said Saddam was in the palace when the botched air strike ???
??occured and left it immediately to an unknown place, before he personally ???
??supervised interrogation of the airman.???
??Two hours after the incident, regime troops arrived at the lake region ???
??aboard helicopter gunships, immediately opened fire at fishermen before ???
??arresting scores of them. (more)???
??Simultaneously, Al-Bakr air base, where the plane had taken off, ???
??was shut down and several air force officers were arrested for interrogations. ???

[Uncle Chô]

For the most part what they need is C-130's, UH-1's, some light props for basic training- maybe T-6 Texans
or something, and i think they should get between 10 and 16 L-39 Albatross light jets.
rofl 10 to 16, right? No less no more. How did you come to this brilliant conclusion ?

The L-39' was made by Russia. IT is used for jet training, light attack and armed recon.

No, L-39 are not Russian airplanes. They were built by Aero Vodochody in the former Czechoslovakia and such a great design (derivative from the L-29) that the Russians bought the aircraft for the Soviet Air Force. About 2 800 produced, many are currently registered in the USA flying in the hands of (rich) private owners.

http://www.modelspot.com/photo/iat02/l39.jpg

I think L-39's would be a good choice for both a new Afghan and Iraqi air force.
Thank you for you expertise rofl

[Soulhunter]

Iraqi airforce? Do you really think that sounds like a good idea? It rather sounds like an additional "betrayal" danger ...

[seruriermarshal]

Iraqi airforce? Do you really think that sounds like a good idea? It rather sounds like an additional "betrayal" danger ...

Your are right , I think , Now Iraq needn't airforce , they need reliable police in city and village , allies troops must left city and village to desert and border (There more safe and prevent this country from invaded ) .

[-Max2-]

I wonder why the US give C-130s and Hueys to the Iraqi Air Force. :| Iraqi Air Force had a large fleet of cargo planes and helicopters like Il-76s, Mi-8/17 Hips, SA-330 Pumas, etc...

It wont be too difficult to refurbish some helicopters like the Hips for example, who are easy to maintain and well adapted for the new Iraqi Air Force...

[Flagg]

I wonder why the US give C-130s and Hueys to the Iraqi Air Force. Iraqi Air Force had a large fleet of cargo planes and helicopters like Il-76s, Mi-8/17 Hips, SA-330 Pumas, etc...

It wont be too difficult to refurbish some helicopters like the Hips for example, who are easy to maintain and well adapted for the new Iraqi Air Force...

Assuming they haven't been JDAMed

[Brozozo]

I wouldn't give them anything thatcould be used a weapons platform just yet. Who's to say they won't turn it against our ground troops (since their pieces of junk wouldn't be much of a threat against our planes)?

[Fox2]

Cessna T-37! :D

http://www.wpafb.af.mil/museum/modern_flight/t37.jpg

Sorry, just want to see this thing flying again. ;)

[Uncle Chô]

I wonder why the US give C-130s and Hueys to the Iraqi Air Force. Iraqi Air Force had a large fleet of cargo planes and helicopters like Il-76s, Mi-8/17 Hips, SA-330 Pumas, etc...

It wont be too difficult to refurbish some helicopters like the Hips for example, who are easy to maintain and well adapted for the new Iraqi Air Force...

Assuming they haven't been JDAMed
Exactly. A fleet of cargo and helo airplanes is needed to ferry troops and goods all over the country. Helos can also take over law enforcement duties.
BTW, the Iraqi Air Force did not had SA-330 Puma. Only Super Frelon, Gazelle and Alouette III (and perhaps some Dauphin). But they already flew US made products : http://www.airliners.net/open.file/536635/L/ ;)

[Fox2]

BTW, the Iraqi Air Force did not had SA-330 Puma. Only Super Frelon, Gazelle and Alouette III (and perhaps some Dauphin).

Only; nice. rofl

[-Max2-]

BTW, the Iraqi Air Force did not had SA-330 Puma.

Are you sure ? ;)

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/iraq/ground-equipment.htm

[seruriermarshal]

I wouldn't give them anything thatcould be used a weapons platform just yet. Who's to say they won't turn it against our ground troops (since their pieces of junk wouldn't be much of a threat against our planes)?

I believe , Now let Iraq have airforce is so bad idea ......

[Uncle Chô]

BTW, the Iraqi Air Force did not had SA-330 Puma. Are you sure ? ;).
Amazing! You raised a very interesting point : 13 SA 330 Puma ordered in the mid-80s (from Romania since the production line in France was closed?) only 10 delivered (incl. 2 VIP helicopters). But about 11 brand new Super Puma with the Exocet launched rail to replace the Super Frelon in the late 80s.

Does anybody have a photo evidence of those aircrafts ?

[usa320]

helicopters like Il-76s, Mi-8/17 Hips, SA-330 Pumas, etc...


I think they probably are using any old equipment that still is functional.

But the majority of it was either JDAMed, looted or burried in the desert.