Anyone ever run into an M4 that...

[raph_g]

...had selective fire 3rd burst and semi? I've only ever seen, shot or heard of full and semi M4s (used by US Military), but I read a US army stat sheet recently that had the M4 down as 3rd burst and semi automatic like the M16A4s. typo on their part or are there actually some of these running around out there?

[Frens]

AFAIK the M4 has the Safe - Semi - Burst trigger group & the M4A1 as the Safe - Semi - Auto trigger group

[raph_g]

got it. thanks

[Danno]

The M4's being issued now have as he said, the Safe-Semi-Burst trigger group. I don't know if we're completely correct but we generally refer to them as M4A4's because they have the same 4 way rail system as the M16A4's.

[eppler]

The early M4 three round burst would not reset if only one or two rounds were fired. This could only give you one shot next time you pulled the trigger after many complaints they changed it to full auto.

[raph_g]

full auto on the m4:

http://media.militaryphotos.net/photos/albums/abninf/adq.wmv


edit: and at night --> http://media.militaryphotos.net/photos/albums/abninf/agm.wmv

[eppler]

AVAILABLE MODELS
RO977 : Flat top, Safe/Semi/Full Auto
RO979 : Flat top, Safe/Semi/Burst
RO777 : Fixed handle, Safe/Semi/Full Auto
RO779 : Fixed handle, Safe/Semi/Burst

[Frens]

The early M4 three round burst would not reset if only one or two rounds were fired. This could only give you one shot next time you pulled the trigger after many complaints they changed it to full auto.

not only in the M4. also with the M16A2 and M16A4 .all three rounds burst are the same & have that problem.

[TacoDelRio]

You mean a four-position selector switch? I think there may be a lower reciever out there with it, maybe it was a joke?

[SMGLee]

someone made a aftermarket trigger group awhile back that has the 4 position. you slip a thin plate with the new marking on the side of the receiver that is held in by the selector. it was not as reliable as one might want in a M4 but it did offer this option.

there is no factory Colt rpoduct that offeres the four position.

I always found the two or three round burst to be unnecessary since the best burst mechnism is your trigger finger..

[EVIL NADMAN]

The M4's that are issued at my unit have been Safe, Semi, and Burst and that was in the regular army units. Now I have seen M4A1's used by Group which have auto instead of burst.

[Mountain Man]

Colt did make models called "enhanced" for export a while back. I worked on a "Commndo Enhanced" all during armorer school. Had all four modes of fire from the factory. The reciever was marked Commando Enhanced and the selector was marked with all four modes. If I remember right he said that they mainly were export guns. I'll try to see if I can find anything on it.

[SMGLee]

Colt did make models called "enhanced" for export a while back. I worked on a "Commndo Enhanced" all during armorer school. Had all four modes of fire from the factory. The reciever was marked Commando Enhanced and the selector was marked with all four modes. If I remember right he said that they mainly were export guns. I'll try to see if I can find anything on it.


Yep.. I do remember that... I thnk SAR did a picto on it.

[PhatPete]

Colt Canada C8A2

Safe - Semi - Auto trigger group

http://www.coltcanada.com/c8-page.htm

[HoboWithAK]

The early M4 three round burst would not reset if only one or two rounds were fired. This could only give you one shot next time you pulled the trigger after many complaints they changed it to full auto.

Stick to videogame trivia.

[Hollis]

The M4's that are issued at my unit have been Safe, Semi, and Burst and that was in the regular army units. Now I have seen M4A1's used by Group which have auto instead of burst.


Rumor has it, people are going back to Full auto. IMHO, Burst is for novices who can not seem to control themselves. All full auto have burst, it is in the finger of the shooter (if he/she was issued with the right finger).

[eppler]

Stick to videogame trivia.
Stick it up your arss or post a useful reply!

[22.5degrees]

Rumor has it, people are going back to Full auto. IMHO, Burst is for novices who can not seem to control themselves. All full auto have burst, it is in the finger of the shooter (if he/she was issued with the right finger).


I agree. Training and discipline create the burst mechanism.

22.5

[Ratamacue]

Rumor has it, people are going back to Full auto. IMHO, Burst is for novices who can not seem to control themselves. All full auto have burst, it is in the finger of the shooter (if he/she was issued with the right finger).Is burst even really used at all within the military? Pretty much all the footage I've seen from Iraq and Afghanistan (admittedly a poor resource of information for the most part) shows guys using semi pretty much exclusively. Maybe with experience could shed some light.

[Mountain Man]

There are uses for full auto but it uses a lot of ammo up quickly on mostly inaccurate shots at distance. Semi is better for ammo control and accuracy at distance. As said before burst was created as a medium between the two, but a skilled operator should be able to do the same with simple control of their trigger finger. Granted I'm LE, but our machine gun course is numerous controlled bursts at various distances not greater than 15 yards. 2-3 round bursts are easy and there is not need for something to do it for you. We only have one full mag dump at the very end of the course and it is up close.

There is a need for having the full auto, but burst is pretty much worthless.

[BrianT]

Is burst even really used at all within the military? Pretty much all the footage I've seen from Iraq and Afghanistan (admittedly a poor resource of information for the most part) shows guys using semi pretty much exclusively. Maybe with experience could shed some light.
I've personally only shot a m4 full auto a handful of times and that was when we were at the range with a bunch of left over ammo to burn.

[ABNINF]

Outside of burning off ammo, and surpressive fire FA isn't very useful. It's fun though;-)

[raph_g]

yeah i remember hearing how DOD wanted the M16A2s to be burst (and went with the 30rd mag) rather than auto because of the experience they had in Vietnam with inf guys just blazing away full auto on the M16A1s not hitting sh*t.

[reya]

p-)
...had selective fire 3rd burst and semi? I've only ever seen, shot or heard of full and semi M4s (used by US Military), but I read a US army stat sheet recently that had the M4 down as 3rd burst and semi automatic like the M16A4s. typo on their part or are there actually some of these running around out there?Doesn't sound possible. Third round, is a strange location to choose anyhow. Must be a typo.

[reya]

Stick it up your arss or post a useful reply! Lets see, when set on semi, I usually sent downrange three-five rounds.
That sounds like a burst to me. Unless someone can prove otherwise, since I'm no expert.

[juju]

Training will replace easily any selector.
I recently shot an L2A3 SMG and I was able to fire two round burst with the selector placed on full auto. Ditto with a UZI. emptying 30 rounds mags each time.

I remember reading a report on an Operator's course at HK academy where one of the teacher amazed the students. He asked them to give a number between 1 and 5, and immediately shot a burst of the given number. Then he fired bursts of 5, 4, 3, 2 and finished emptying the mag by single shot, with the selector still on full auto.

This really shows that training is the key.

[Nevins]

Colt Models:
R0605B (Sturtevant)
R0606B (Sturtevant)
R0610B (Sturtevant)
CAR-703 (Robbins, Experimental w/ Gas Piston)
R0708(Robbins)
R0738(Robbins)
R0748(Robbins)
R0778(Robbins)
R0908(Robbins)
R0938(Robbins)
R0978(Robbins)
all had "4 Way Fire Control"

-The First four-way trigger group was developed by Foster Sturtevant in dec. 1966

-The Current Four-way Selector lever was designed by Colt's Laurence Robbins and Patented in 1998
-The Robbins Four-way selector was offered in a new series of rifles and carbines called the Colt Enhanced Series.
-The only large quantities of the four way trigger group ever produced by Colt were for a Greek Army contract

hope that clears it up

and on the other issue..
M4: SAFE/SEMI/BURST
M4A1:SAFE/SEMI/AUTO
SOCOM uses the M4A1 with a Heavy barrel and a "reliability parts kit", as of 2003 all M4A1's procured by the US GOV. come with a heavy barrel.

information from "Black Rifle II: The M16 into the 21st Century"
I guess books are good for something..

[Mountain Man]

Colt Models:
R0605B (Sturtevant)
R0606B (Sturtevant)
R0610B (Sturtevant)
CAR-703 (Robbins, Experimental w/ Gas Piston)
R0708(Robbins)
R0738(Robbins)
R0748(Robbins)
R0778(Robbins)
R0908(Robbins)
R0938(Robbins)
R0978(Robbins)
all had "4 Way Fire Control"

-The First four-way trigger group was developed bt Foster Sturtevant in dec. 1966

-The Current Four-way Selector lever was designed by Colt's Laurence Robbins and Patented in 1998
-The Robbins Four-way selector was offered in a new series of rifles and carbines called the Colt Enhanced Series.
-The only large quantities of the four way trigger group ever produced by Colt were for a Greek Army contract

hope that clears it up

and on the other issue..
M4: SAFE/SEMI/BURST
M4A1:SAFE/SEMI/AUTO
SOCOM uses the M4A1 with a Heavy barrel and a "reliability parts kit", as of 2003 all M4A1's procured by the US GOV. come with a heavy barrel.

information from "Black Rifle II: The M16 into the 21st Century"
I guess books are good for something..

Good job, I was waiting on a reply to follow up. Black Rifle II is good stuff, knew it might be in there, just dont own the book.

Thanks Nevins