Mutiny in the Ranks

[Soulhunter]

interesting article about the recent mutinies in the new Iraq army:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4766616/

[mustamato]

Interesting article, especially these parts


“There were a number of troops, there were a number of police that didn’t stand up when THEIR country called,” concedes coalition military spokesperson Brig. Gen. Mark Kimmitt.

...

Zubaidy said that his U.S. officers ordered Iraqi soldiers to open fire on the angry crowd in Shulla. “The American officers hysterically ordered us to shoot the 'traitors',” he recalls, “We were not asked beforehand to go fight OUR people in Shulla. If we had been….we would have resigned at the camp right away.”

...

“In the beginning the Americans tried to push the Iraqi army into the fight. But when many of them declined, the Americans started to shoot at them”—and even incited other Iraqi soldiers to “shoot their friends in the army,”

[Soulhunter]

It seems like there are different versions of Iraq right now ...

The american Iraq = the country Brig. Gen. Kermit speaks of
The iraqi Iraq = the country the 'mutineers' speak of

And not to forget the kurdish Iraq, the iranian Iraq, etc

It's always so bizarre when the occupation powers talk about the Iraqis and Iraq. It's them who defines what a 'real' Iraqi is.

[UkrainianAmerican]

It seems like there are different versions of Iraq right now ...

The american Iraq = the country Brig. Gen. Kermit speaks of
The iraqi Iraq = the country the 'mutineers' speak of

And not to forget the kurdish Iraq, the iranian Iraq, etc

It's always so bizarre when the occupation powers talk about the Iraqis and Iraq. It's them who defines what a 'real' Iraqi is.
I like Kurdish iraq the most.

[Soulhunter]

You perhaps. But just ask the Turks if they like Kurdish Iraq ;)

[UkrainianAmerican]

You perhaps. But just ask the Turks if they like Kurdish Iraq ;)
Turks didnt help us, so screw them.

[Soulhunter]

haha, ok. But I doubt though that your world view will strengthen world peace in the long run ...

[UkrainianAmerican]

haha, ok. But I doubt though that your world view will strengthen world peace in the long run ...
Screw world peace.

[Soulhunter]

no reason to argue with you anymore. you're too limited.

[Pille1234]

In all, “about 70 Iraqi troops were left barefoot and without clothing outside the camp,” says Sabah Majeed, a resident of Al-Mizrffa village in the al-Taji river district. (The estimated figure of 70 was confirmed by Wissam al-Majmaa’i, the first lieutenant guarding the camp’s gate.) “They were told that they were sacked for non-compliance with military orders, and had no hope of returning to military service. I helped about 18 of them, with assistance from local tribes and families,” says the villager, who offered his own clothes to a soldier and drove off in his BMW wearing just his underwear.

Unnecessary indignity. Another 70 Iraqi who will join the resistance :(

[UkrainianAmerican]

In all, “about 70 Iraqi troops were left barefoot and without clothing outside the camp,” says Sabah Majeed, a resident of Al-Mizrffa village in the al-Taji river district. (The estimated figure of 70 was confirmed by Wissam al-Majmaa’i, the first lieutenant guarding the camp’s gate.) “They were told that they were sacked for non-compliance with military orders, and had no hope of returning to military service. I helped about 18 of them, with assistance from local tribes and families,” says the villager, who offered his own clothes to a soldier and drove off in his BMW wearing just his underwear.

Unnecessary indignity. Another 70 Iraqi who will join the resistance :(
UNnecessary?!
Its an ARMY. YOU FOLLOW ORDERS.

[Soulhunter]

darn, I just have to correct you ...

Yes, it's an army. But it's an army created by the occupation forces and used to fight people the US, and not necessarily the Iraqi society, views as terrorists. So you can't blame those Iraqis that didn't want to follow orders from the occupation against their own people.

[Pille1234]

In all, “about 70 Iraqi troops were left barefoot and without clothing outside the camp,” says Sabah Majeed, a resident of Al-Mizrffa village in the al-Taji river district. (The estimated figure of 70 was confirmed by Wissam al-Majmaa’i, the first lieutenant guarding the camp’s gate.) “They were told that they were sacked for non-compliance with military orders, and had no hope of returning to military service. I helped about 18 of them, with assistance from local tribes and families,” says the villager, who offered his own clothes to a soldier and drove off in his BMW wearing just his underwear.

Unnecessary indignity. Another 70 Iraqi who will join the resistance :(
UNnecessary?!
Its an ARMY. YOU FOLLOW ORDERS.
Right, but indignity is not that kind of punishment I'd like to see. I don't know about the US, but here where I live personal degregation and inidignity is not allowed for official disciplining. At least I never saw a US Marine in underwear running through the city for punishment.

[Soulhunter]

Pille you right, but RussianAmerican doesn't give a 'fukc' about opinions that contradict his own.

[UkrainianAmerican]

In all, “about 70 Iraqi troops were left barefoot and without clothing outside the camp,” says Sabah Majeed, a resident of Al-Mizrffa village in the al-Taji river district. (The estimated figure of 70 was confirmed by Wissam al-Majmaa’i, the first lieutenant guarding the camp’s gate.) “They were told that they were sacked for non-compliance with military orders, and had no hope of returning to military service. I helped about 18 of them, with assistance from local tribes and families,” says the villager, who offered his own clothes to a soldier and drove off in his BMW wearing just his underwear.

Unnecessary indignity. Another 70 Iraqi who will join the resistance :(
UNnecessary?!
Its an ARMY. YOU FOLLOW ORDERS.
Right, but indignity is not that kind of punishment I'd like to see. I don't know about the US, but here where I live personal degregation and inidignity is not allowed for official disciplining. At least I never saw a US Marine in underwear running through the city for punishment.
Thats cause US marines dont start DISOBEYING orders in a fcuking WAR ZONE!

[Soulhunter]

you can't compare the US marines fighting for their country with the new iraqi amry created by an occupation force in an occupied country

[Ichhabe]

It seems like there are different versions of Iraq right now ...

The american Iraq = the country Brig. Gen. Kermit speaks of
The iraqi Iraq = the country the 'mutineers' speak of

And not to forget the kurdish Iraq, the iranian Iraq, etc

It's always so bizarre when the occupation powers talk about the Iraqis and Iraq. It's them who defines what a 'real' Iraqi is.
I like Kurdish iraq the most.

It's going to be interesting reading your comments the day the Kurdish Iraqis raise against the occupation because they see that they effort wan not appriated and valued enogh by their standard.

Going to save this posting so I can help you remember, cause you probably by then have forgotten your likings.

[Soulhunter]

or to see the Kurds split off from the rest of Iraq, they're already 'ethnically cleaning' their area ...

[UkrainianAmerican]

It seems like there are different versions of Iraq right now ...

The american Iraq = the country Brig. Gen. Kermit speaks of
The iraqi Iraq = the country the 'mutineers' speak of

And not to forget the kurdish Iraq, the iranian Iraq, etc

It's always so bizarre when the occupation powers talk about the Iraqis and Iraq. It's them who defines what a 'real' Iraqi is.
I like Kurdish iraq the most.

It's going to be interesting reading your comments the day the Kurdish Iraqis raise against the occupation because they see that they effort wan not appriated and valued enogh by their standard.

Going to save this posting so I can help you remember, cause you probably by then have forgotten your likings.
Well I sincerely hope I am right in this regard. Cuz if Kurds will want to kick us out, it will be pretty fcuked up.

[UkrainianAmerican]

or to see the Kurds split off from the rest of Iraq, they're already 'ethnically cleaning' their area ...
Link?

[Soulhunter]

or to see the Kurds split off from the rest of Iraq, they're already 'ethnically cleaning' their area ...
Link?

have to look it up. i'll post it later

[UkrainianAmerican]

or to see the Kurds split off from the rest of Iraq, they're already 'ethnically cleaning' their area ...
Link?

have to look it up. i'll post it later
I am still waiting. :roll:

[Soulhunter]

Gimme a break, I have a life besides this forum.

I'm looking for the article. And of course it's not an official, or huge, ethnic cleansing (yet). The article told about Kurds trying to drive Arabs from their neighborhoods and stuff. If I can retrace the article, I'll post it here.

[UkrainianAmerican]

Gimme a break, I have a life besides this forum.

I'm looking for the article. And of course it's not an official, or huge, ethnic cleansing (yet). The article told about Kurds trying to drive Arabs from their neighborhoods and stuff. If I can retrace the article, I'll post it here.
I have a life too, but if I claim something as terrible as ethnic cleansing I try to back it up.

[Lobo]

I wonder if those soldiers were sent to control a demostration with AK/AKMs... I haven't seen any Iraqi policeman with antiriot equipment.

[HELEX]

“In the beginning the Americans tried to push the Iraqi army into the fight. But when many of them declined, the Americans started to shoot at them”—and even incited other Iraqi soldiers to “shoot their friends in the army,”

:roll:

:cantbeli:

You shoot Soldiers who dont want to fight against their own people?

[Soulhunter]

The problem simply is that the Iraqis and the occupation forces don't necessarily define their enemy the same way.

But of course, it the US who 'knows' who's an enemy for the 'Iraqi people' and who's not. Poor little dumb Iraqis can't tell that for themselves.

[ikurinturbiini]

you can't compare the US marines fighting for their country with the new iraqi amry created by an occupation force in an occupied country

Slightly (or perhaps completely) off topic:

Don't get me wrong, I think the US has a good reason to be in Iraq. But do you think they are fighting for their country?

I don't think so. Think about it: reports on WMD false or fabricated, no link between Iraq and Al-Quaeda. Other than pissing Dubya off, Iraq was not threatening USA in any way.

I'd say that the US troops are there to fight for their President's political agenda and some undisputed US interests, but in my books, that does not qualify as "fighting for your country" which, I think, has everything to do with defending your soil and people.

Just a thought. And I'm truly sorry for every American life lost anywhere. Just stay there and finish the job.