US retailer banishes Che Guevara's picture

[khukuri]

http://www.metimes.com/storyview.php?StoryID=20061223-092259-5026r


US retailer banishes Che Guevara's picture
AFP

December 23, 2006

REBEL ROUSER: A towel with an image of Che Guevara hangs between other towels showing Venezuela's President Hugo Chavez hugging Cuba's President Fidel Castro in Maracaibo, Venezuela.
(*******)
WASHINGTON -- US conservatives have launched another assault on Latin American revolutionary Ernesto Che Guevara. And scored another victory - 39 years after his death.

This time, though, the onslaught targeted a $4.99 CD case featuring a picture of the famed guerrilla fighter, who enjoys cult-like status in many parts of the world.

Target Corporation, a US discount retailer that operates in 47 states, announced, in a statement made available Friday, that it would stop selling the case in all of its nearly 1,500 stores.

"We have made the decision to remove this item from our shelves," the chain announced. "It is never our intent to offend any of our guests through the merchandise we carry and we sincerely apologize for any discomfort this situation may have caused our guests."

The move came in the face of loud calls for a boycott of the company by conservative activists and commentators right at the peak of the Christmas season, which is crucial to the company's commercial health.

The clarion call sounded December 14, when The Investor's Business Daily published an editorial, in which it blasted Target for "selling the murderous revolutionary's image as if it had just turned its stores into Marxist rally stalls."

The newspaper termed Che Guevara "a psychopath," who had played "a central role" in mass executions, organized Cuba's gulag system, and put children in front of firing squads.

"What next? Hitler backpacks? Pol Pot cookware? Pinochet pantyhose?" the editorial demanded.

Conservative Web sites and right-wing bloggers exploded in outrage, and Target found itself under an avalanche of angry letters, written primarily by Cuban exiles.

"As the son of Cuban American parents who fled Che's human rights abuses, as well as having friends and family members put to death by Che Guevara himself, I have decided to stop shopping at Target until the Che Guevara case, or any other item glorifying that human rights abuser is pulled from the shelves," wrote one of the protesters, Mario Ramirez of Wantagh, New York.

The ill-fated case carried a famous 1960 photograph of Che Guevara taken by Alberto Korda, who succeeded in capturing the restless spirit of the long-haired revolutionary after he had helped Fidel Castro topple a pro-American regime in Cuba.

The medic-turned-guerrilla fighter was killed in October 1967 in Bolivia, where he had gone to foment a leftist uprising.

US Central Intelligence Agency operatives and special forces advisers helped organize a Bolivian military operation, as a result of which he was captured and executed, according to documents made available later.

But much to the dismay of the Cuban exile community, Che Guevara's death turned him into a cultural icon.

He appears in painter Andy Warhol's artwork, is the subject of countless books and articles, and a popular 2004 movie, "The Motorcycle Diaries.

Target Corp. is not the first to get in trouble from conservatives for displaying his likeness. Rock guitarist Carlos Santana faced similar criticism in 2005 for wearing a Che Guevara T-shirt to the Academy Awards ceremony.

[LaoSexMachine]

That's their perogative. Che is so pase'

[ren0312]

That's their perogative. Che is so pase'

Go to a poor country like mine, and try coming to a conclusion that Che is pase'.

[LaoSexMachine]

Go to a poor country like mine, and try coming to a conclusion that Che is pase'.

Why would I? I was born in a poor country. Like I said Che is so pase'

[helomech]

Most of the punk ass kids of today who wear the Che tshirts and brandish images of him have no clue as to what horrific things he was responsible for.Todays liberal clowns call for a 'revolution of government' yet the violence they've been exposed to is limited to tv and games.Good for Target for removing that crap from their stores...

Viva Target!!!!!!

[Loki77]

Rock guitarist Carlos Santana faced similar criticism in 2005 for wearing a Che Guevara T-shirt to the Academy Awards ceremony.



http://www.calcio-d.com/maglia/che%20guevara%20tee.jpg

Why?

[khukuri]

http://www.calcio-d.com/maglia/che%20guevara%20tee.jpg

Why?



yup didnt know that about santana, cool!

[EsoognomEhT]

http://www.calcio-d.com/maglia/che%20guevara%20tee.jpg

Why?




Read post above yours, Che was no ****ing saint!

[Loki77]

Che was no ****ing saint!
Yes!!



. ....But every one have the right to freedom of expression!

[Saranof]

Most big political leaders in wars tend to have done things most people would not like. Of course, Che was worse because he was a omfg liberal who hated america, bla bla bla. Meanwhile, shirts glorified killing "them ragheads" are still legal.

[LaoSexMachine]

Most big political leaders in wars tend to have done things most people would not like. Of course, Che was worse because he was a omfg liberal who hated america, bla bla bla. Meanwhile, shirts glorified killing "them ragheads" are still legal.

I been to Target and they don't sell those shirts. You can wear what shirt you like in America. This one company's policy not America's.

[szr]

Meanwhile, shirts glorified killing "them ragheads" are still legal.
Target sells such shirts? LINK PLEASE

By the way, it's hilarious that you used the word "legal" because it shows your level of understanding of what's going on here. This is a matter of internal company policy within one US retailer. There's nothing legal about it.

[EsoognomEhT]

Yes!!



. ....But every one have the right to freedom of expression!



Yup, thats why it said Santana was subject to criticism and not any kind of action, other people used their freedom of expression to criticise his choice of public clothing :)

[Chacon]

Read post above yours, Che was no ****ing saint!

The U.S government and many other government aren't either.

[Herrmannek]

HOOAH, job well done

[alfigel]

Read post above yours, Che was no ****ing saint!

To say this clear and loud,
Che Guevara is God.
Read his articles about Guerilla warfare, he worked out very detailled, profound and effective Guerilla concepts. Just wonderful stuff. Oh, and his political inheritance is the fight for individual, basic rights in Latin America, so what exactly can be bad about that?

(let the braindead flames from the conservative propaganda victim fraction begin)

[LaoSexMachine]

To say this clear and loud,
Che Guevara is God.
Read his articles about Guerilla warfare, he worked out very detailled, profound and effective Guerilla concepts. Just wonderful stuff. Oh, and his political inheritance is the fight for individual, basic rights in Latin America, so what exactly can be bad about that?

(let the braindead flames from the conservative propaganda victim fraction begin)


He probably read Mao's book on Guerilla warfare. I think the Shining Path looks at Che as a model.

Basic rights? Yeah look at Cuba he help create. Yes, basic rights indeed.

[Herrmannek]

He probably read Mao's book on Guerilla warfare. I think the Shining Path looks at Che as a model.

Basic rights? Yeah look at Cuba he help create. Yes, basic rights indeed.

Che(generally commies) was/are God in endless solving problems that never exist in free world :) This is what commies are known from. Of course he was serial killer if not mass murderer... He is not a God but for sure great satan's servant...

[Loki77]

Yup, thats why it said Santana was subject to criticism and not any kind of action, other people used their freedom of expression to criticise his choice of public clothing :)
I agree...



But i think Freedom of Expression should be respected in all situations. If we start to censor certain forms of expression, how do we decide what should and what shouldn't be censored and what can and can't be said. We could end up with a situation like China, where people aren't allowed to speak out to question the government.

[VansRV]

To say this clear and loud,
Just wonderful stuff. Oh, and his political inheritance is the fight for individual, basic rights in Latin America, so what exactly can be bad about that?

(let the braindead flames from the conservative propaganda victim fraction begin)

Batista's downfall gave way to trials without due process and the execution of 5000 political prisoners. "Just wonderfull stuff".

[alfigel]

Che(generally commies) was/are God in endless solving problems that never exist in free world :)

Latin America was hardly a free world in the 1950/1960s. Please, learn history.

[alfigel]

Batista's downfall gave way to trials without due process and the execution of 5000 political prisoners. "Just wonderfull stuff".

If you hadn't misquoted me, it would be clear that the "Just wonderful stuff" was related to his books on Guerilla warfare.

[budgie]

Anyone here read any of Che's biographies? He was not the monster portrayed by some here.

[Happy]

Anyone here read any of Che's biographies? He was not the monster portrayed by some here.


the histories I have read state that he was directly responsible for the summary execution of a great many of his enemies.

[EsoognomEhT]

I agree...



But i think Freedom of Expression should be respected in all situations. If we start to censor certain forms of expression, how do we decide what should and what shouldn't be censored and what can and can't be said. We could end up with a situation like China, where people aren't allowed to speak out to question the government.


Very true what you say of course, but he wasn't censored was he? He was just criticised by some (journalists?)

[Thor]

There are alternatives

http://www.thoseshirts.com/images/model-reagan-k.jpg

[alfigel]

Anyone here read any of Che's biographies? He was not the monster portrayed by some here.

I read and saw the movie version of his "Motorcycle Diaries". Very inspiring.

[Thor]

I read and saw the movie version of his "Motorcycle Diaries". Very inspiring.
Gitmo for you.

Che recruited underage soldiers and executed them when they didn't want to go along with his BS anymore.

[Indiana Jones]

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheMongoose http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?p=2179446#post2179446)
Read post above yours, Che was no ****ing saint!


The U.S government and many other government aren't either.

Yes, so what ? It is well known that the US has more than one skeleton in the cupboard when it comes to recent Latin American history...that does not alter the fact that Guevara was a mass murderer.

[Kilgor]

To say this clear and loud,
Che Guevara is God.
Read his articles about Guerilla warfare, he worked out very detailled, profound and effective Guerilla concepts. Just wonderful stuff. Oh, and his political inheritance is the fight for individual, basic rights in Latin America, so what exactly can be bad about that?

(let the braindead flames from the conservative propaganda victim fraction begin)

che was a stalinist who deserved nothing more than a bullet through the skull and a rotting corpse in a shallow grave.

Replacing one cruel dictatorship with another. Typical communist. So many promises, same outcome.

[Indiana Jones]

che was a stalinist who deserved nothing more than a bullet through the skull and a rotting corpse in a shallow grave.

Replacing one cruel dictatorship with another. Typical communist. So many promises, same outcome.
Nah. He certainly was not a Stalinist. I can´t help to disagree with the rest, though.

[budgie]

Anyone got documentation they can offer to prove Che was a murderer? Right wing blogs do not count by the way...

[Ghelp]

Che was a good man who died for what he believed for.This I respect him for.He is a some what of a hero to Latin America.Even though today groups such as FARC try and use his figure to further there cause.Even this I respect him.Alot of what has been said about him is Cold war era propaganda.

[BloodyTalon]

I thinks its downright pathetic that people have made Che Guevara into a pop culture icon. First of all, turning him into a brand to put on clothing and other items is against everything he stood for. Second, it pretty barbaric to glorify a murderer just because he looks cool as a stencil and had "good ideas".

Speaking of Che, I remember back in highschool there was this one skank in my govt' class that proudly wore a Che Guevara T-shirt and beret, even when it shown that he made Charles Manson look like Saint Paul. So, I decided to show her how naive she was by making an Otto Skorzeny T-shirt in the same style of Che's, only black with a white stencil. Well, she had a b!tch fit about the fact that I was wearing the likeness of an SS officer and tried to get me suspended over it. But, after a heated debate where I pointed out that she was being a hypocrite in her accusations, she stopped whereing her Che crap and I retired my Skorzeny shirt.

[no-way-jose]

Just for the records:
First of all, Shinning path was a Peruvian communist guerrilla group. They've never used Che as a Symbol; instead of they used the RED USSR flag.
"Motorcycles diaries" Shows how a medicine student turned in to a Guerrilla leader. If you ever watch that movie you will probably understand why el Che fought the Cuban government and supported Castro.
Inequality was and is a big problem in Latin American countries, Ernesto Guevara fought against the system that leave millions out.
I really do not understand why so many people nowadays are offended by "el Che" T shirts. As usual some morons think that what they heard or watch on TV is the true... that applies to the web too.
And please do not compare "el Che" with Nazis bastards. The US government instead of look over some El Che t-shirts should begin to ban everything that is related to Nazi Germany.
Viva el che!

[ag05]

I need to get me one of these shirts. I like the idea of going to a huge, impersonal corporate chain store in a capitalist society, and buying a Che Guevara shirt made by a 12 year old kid working for pennies in some god-forsaken 3rd world country. If you think about it, it's the ultimate insult to his ideals. Viva el Che

[helomech]

So Che fought the Cuban government and helped support Castro,and alot of good that did!Cuba is still 50 years behind the rest of the world when it comes to quality of life.And don't use that bull**** about their leading research in this or that.An oppressed country is just that.Talk to any old timer from central or south America and they'll tell you that Che and Castro ruined the Americas' with their so-called revolution for the people.It's utter bull**** and if anyone has read even inkling of history,will know it.
Don't drag the US into this arguement,when we screw up we'll be the first ones' to admit it.
Che,Castro,Guzman(Shining Path),Chavez,they're all POS's and they need to be ventilated in the cranial area.Double-tapped of course.

Obviously,Che has been taken care of,including his hands'....

[11 Bravo]

To say this clear and loud,
Che Guevara is God.
Read his articles about Guerilla warfare, he worked out very detailled, profound and effective Guerilla concepts. Just wonderful stuff. Oh, and his political inheritance is the fight for individual, basic rights in Latin America, so what exactly can be bad about that?

(let the braindead flames from the conservative propaganda victim fraction begin)



HA HA HA HA HA !!!. God you say...let's see he got whacked with his handfull of communist drones while running on empty !. So great was he...yep , that's why he's dead because he was such a good little marxist. Such human debris rot in hell !.

[Loki77]

I read and saw the movie version of his "Motorcycle Diaries". Very inspiring.


The film's director Walter Salles is son of a well-heeled banker in Latin America...

[jimmyboots]

Che was a loser. (would have said fag but this being the political forum i would have probably insulted more people then intended) unfortunately because of him and his like minded brethren there was a rise of many groups. The FMLN in my old neck of the woods and all the troubles that followed.

[Shinobi]

Just for the records:
First of all, Shinning path was a Peruvian communist guerrilla group. They've never used Che as a Symbol; instead of they used the RED USSR flag.
"Motorcycles diaries" Shows how a medicine student turned in to a Guerrilla leader. If you ever watch that movie you will probably understand why el Che fought the Cuban government and supported Castro.
Movie Motorcycle Diaries take many liberties with reality, like so many movies. Have you seen Always Together Working For The People?

[BloodyTalon]

Just for the records:
First of all, Shinning path was a Peruvian communist guerrilla group. They've never used Che as a Symbol; instead of they used the RED USSR flag.
"Motorcycles diaries" Shows how a medicine student turned in to a Guerrilla leader. If you ever watch that movie you will probably understand why el Che fought the Cuban government and supported Castro.
Inequality was and is a big problem in Latin American countries, Ernesto Guevara fought against the system that leave millions out.
I really do not understand why so many people nowadays are offended by "el Che" T shirts. As usual some morons think that what they heard or watch on TV is the true... that applies to the web too.
And please do not compare "el Che" with Nazis bastards. The US government instead of look over some El Che t-shirts should begin to ban everything that is related to Nazi Germany.
Viva el che!
Figures you'd get all of your background about Che from the Motorcycle Diaries. All that movie did was continue the myth of Che being this godlike figure and everything he touched turned into Socialist gold, when in reality the only success he had (Castro) was far from an improvement over the previous regime.Hell, even commies agree with me. (http://www.etext.org/Politics/MIM/movies/long/diaries.html) It was a well made movie, though.


Also, I picked Otto Skorzeny because he is the only Nazi that I don't look upon with deep contempt. Had his exploits been for the Allies, he'd be considered a hero.

[budgie]

Figures you'd get all of your background about Che from the Motorcycle Diaries. All that movie did was continue the myth of Che being this godlike figure and everything he touched turned into Socialist gold, when in reality the only success he had (Castro) was far from an improvement over the previous regime.Hell, even commies agree with me. (http://www.etext.org/Politics/MIM/movies/long/diaries.html) It was a well made movie, though.


Also, I picked Otto Skorzeny because he is the only Nazi that I don't look upon with deep contempt. Had his exploits been for the Allies, he'd be considered a hero.

Che was not a successful revolutionary for sure. One of the reasons he left Cuba was disgust over the Castro way. But dude, I think you need to get your hands on a few books before you go spouting off anymore deep knowledge about Che. There's a list here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Che_Guevara

I particularly recommend Death of a Revolutionary: Che Guevara's Last Mission (Harris, Norton, 1970 - Revised), to get a good insight of the man and what drove him and perhaps understand why he's romanticised not for his record or his politics but for his personal dedication to an increasingly hopeless cause.

Yeah and I agree that it's a shame he's been turned into a commercial icon. But reading this book will give you an idea why the man is idolised, not necessarily his cause.

[budgie]

That's their perogative. Che is so pase'

Another blow to free speech.

[SBL]

^I'm sure you can make your own if you want a Che shirt so badly.

I do find the notion of him becoming a commercial pop-icon ironically satisfying, though.

[budgie]

^I'm sure you can make your own if you want a Che shirt so badly.

I do find the notion of him becoming a commercial pop-icon ironically satisfying, though.


Here's a doozy for the Right. There won't be George W. Bush tees floating around 40 years after his death, because that prick doesn't stand for anything.

[TacoDelRio]

Another blow to free speech.

Theoretically not entirely true, as it's on Target's private property. I think they have a right to carry or ban it as they see fit. I think that fits into constitutional "stuff". I'm not saying it's right or wrong.

I think it's halfass that folks my age are walking around with Che shirts on, but then again, if they don't know alot about him and they're wearing his face on their torso, that's dumb on them. I don't like Communism, I think it's a retarded idea, regardless of whether it's a "good concept" in some people's eyes, and regardless of how poorly it has evolved, or came out in the end.

I also don't think some of you guys should bounce back on the defense by insulting the American government. I love my country. I don't hate my government, nor dislike, but my love is in my country, not my government. I think the jabs at George W. Bush are rather short-sighted and inneffective.

My two pesos.

[TacoDelRio]

Here's a doozy for the Right. There won't be George W. Bush tees floating around 40 years after his death, because that prick doesn't stand for anything.

I'm pretty far right-wing I guess, but I don't really care about George W. Bush. George W. Bush wasn't a cultural icon, like Che was to Communist/Latin folks who took a liking to him.

I'm not trying to take a jab at you, Budgie. It's impossible to convey emotion over the internet. I'm simply responding in a monotone way or whatever the choice of words would be.

[szr]

Anyone got documentation they can offer to prove Che was a murderer? Right wing blogs do not count by the way...Anyone got documentation they can offer to prove Hitler was a murderer? Little Jewish girls' diaries do not count by the way...


I thought most rational people accepted that Che was anything but a saint.

[alfigel]

I thought most rational people accepted that Che was anything but a saint.

If you replace "rational" with "right-wing propaganda victim", then your statement is true.

And it's really interesting how people react on Che here. Some call him a murderer, some call him a stalinist, some threaten me with imprisonment in Guantanamo Bay for what I wrote. All hypocrits, I tell you, all cheap-ass hypocrits. Che had an agenda, his goal was to fight poverty and inequality in Latin America, and to improve public health. But what were the goals and actions of your right-wing "heros"? George W. invaded two countries and helped destabilize a whole region. Pinochet, who is often praised to have had such a positive influence on Chile's economy, reprivatized a lot of crucial public infrastructure and thus gave most of the country's wealth to a few already wealthy people (that his people had to suffer, not only due to political prosecution, but also economically, is never told). Thatcher fought a war solely for egoistic reasons (to get re-elected), and then destroyed such things as trade unions and the public health system. No matter what you right-wingers claim, Che Guevara's political agenda (I'm specifically talking about his agenda as mentioned above, and nothing else) stands on moral high-grounds, and everybody who claims otherwise is a misanthropist who does not value even the most basic rights such as equal treatment. And that is the truth.

[Herrmannek]

If you replace "rational" with "right-wing propaganda victim", then your statement is true.

And it's really interesting how people react on Che here. Some call him a murderer, some call him a stalinist, some threaten me with imprisonment in Guantanamo Bay for what I wrote. All hypocrits, I tell you, all cheap-ass hypocrits. Che had an agenda, his goal was to fight poverty and inequality in Latin America, and to improve public health. But what were the goals and actions of your right-wing "heros"? George W. invaded two countries and helped destabilize a whole region. Pinochet, who is often praised to have had such a positive influence on Chile's economy, reprivatized a lot of crucial public infrastructure and thus gave most of the country's wealth to a few already wealthy people (that his people had to suffer, not only due to political prosecution, but also economically, is never told). Thatcher fought a war solely for egoistic reasons (to get re-elected), and then destroyed such things as trade unions and the public health system. No matter what you right-wingers claim, Che Guevara's political agenda (I'm specifically talking about his agenda as mentioned above, and nothing else) stands on moral high-grounds, and everybody who claims otherwise is a misanthropist who does not value even the most basic rights such as equal treatment. And that is the truth.
Only person here presenting brainwash syndromes is you... Beat that into your head being romantic idealist doesn't make a psychopath serial killer any less, he murdered by all means innocent persons personally by shots into back of their heads and by orders.
http://www.therealcuba.com/MurderedbyChe.htm

[Thor]

If you replace "rational" with "right-wing propaganda victim", then your statement is true.
rofl

Yeah, the reality is hard to accept for some.

http://img95.imageshack.us/img95/2158/squarelargelousykb2.jpg

[TacoDelRio]

George W. Bush invaded two countries?

He also built the Berlin Wall, blew up the Death Star, and saved Martha Stewart from Captain Crunch.

Jesus...

We get the point, he's an evil evil man and the root of all evil, and he doesn't like puppies. Come up with a new scapegoat for Christ's sake!

[alfigel]

Only person here presenting brainwash syndromes is you... Beat that into your head being romantic idealist doesn't make a psychopath serial killer any less, he murdered by all means innocent persons personally by shots into back of their heads and by orders.
http://www.therealcuba.com/MurderedbyChe.htm

I was specifically referring to his political agenda. Even though he may have killed people, his achieved a lot of good things. But you don't even want to acknowledge that.

[alfigel]

rofl

Yeah, the reality is hard to accept for some.

http://img95.imageshack.us/img95/2158/squarelargelousykb2.jpg

Like you? All you can do, Thor, is bash the Turks and insult everyone who is not as right-wing as you. But as soon as a discussion gets fact-based, you don't have the balls to stand up and speak out, but bail out instead. You are totally inept to asses political concepts, agendas and events in their respective contexts, but instead you try to promote your xenophobic, inhuman and history-distorting agenda. Loser.

[alfigel]

George W. Bush invaded two countries?

He also built the Berlin Wall, blew up the Death Star, and saved Martha Stewart from Captain Crunch.

Jesus...

We get the point, he's an evil evil man and the root of all evil, and he doesn't like puppies. Come up with a new scapegoat for Christ's sake!

The point is: every single time anything that is even only vaguely related to communism, socialism or social-democracy, it is immediately portrayed as "The Ultimate Evil". But when it comes to looking at what the "heroes" of the right-wingers here did or "achieved", it almost always looks a lot worse. But since the right-wingers are in superior number here, everyone who doesn't follow their POV and tries to highlight the discussed political events or circumstances in a more sophisticated manner (like putting it in its historic context, also looking at the background, and so on), is immediately denounced in the worst way. Just like I mentioned before, I was threatened to be sent to Guantanamo Bay in this very thread.

[nyarlathotep]

http://www.independent.org/newsroom/article.asp?id=1535

Tengo una remera del Che y no sé por qué

[Indiana Jones]

@ Alfigel:Whatever certainly at least partially legitimate motives or political agenda might have fueled Guevaras deeds, he fundamentally discredited himself as a person.


P.S. Es ist umfassend dokumentiert, daß Che nach der Vertreibung Batistas maßgeblich an der Etablierung der kubanischen "Revolutionsgerichte" und damit unmittelbar an der Ermordung zahlloser Dissidenten und "bourgeoiser Elemente" beteiligt war. Es ist ebenso hinlänglich bewiesen, daß er eine zentrale Rolle im kubanischen GULag gespielt hat. Wenn sie Pinochets Morde an Systemkritikern und politischen Gegnern nicht gutheißen, entzieht sich meinem Verständnis warum sie die gleichen Standards nicht auch in diesem Fall zur Anwendung bringen. An ihren Früchten sollt ihr sie erkennen.

[Loki77]

Nah. He certainly was not a Stalinist. I can´t help to disagree with the rest, though.

He was a Stalinist....

http://www.brianzapopolare.it/sezioni/politica/socialcom/assets/guevara_3_300x351.jpg

[XShipRider]

That's their perogative. Che is so pase'

Dying was his biggest claim to fame. If he hadn't (died) he'd be sharing a
bed pan with Fidel but no one would know his name.

[Shinobi]

Che was in fact more maoist. Che's dream world is demonstrated in Cuba, Maoist China, and North Korea.

[pascalywood]

Wal-Mart sells Che Guevara t-shirts...whiskey tango foxtrot?

[SBL]

Here's a doozy for the Right. There won't be George W. Bush tees floating around 40 years after his death, because that prick doesn't stand for anything.


You might be right about 40 years from now, but there's sure no shortage of Bush tees today. Buy now before they go out of style!

[no-way-jose]

So Che fought the Cuban government and helped support Castro,and alot of good that did!Cuba is still 50 years behind the rest of the world when it comes to quality of life.And don't use that bull**** about their leading research in this or that.An oppressed country is just that.Talk to any old timer from central or south America and they'll tell you that Che and Castro ruined the Americas' with their so-called revolution for the people.It's utter bull**** and if anyone has read even inkling of history,will know it.
Don't drag the US into this arguement,when we screw up we'll be the first ones' to admit it.
Che,Castro,Guzman(Shining Path),Chavez,they're all POS's and they need to be ventilated in the cranial area.Double-tapped of course.

Obviously,Che has been taken care of,including his hands'....
Again, You must realize that there are "ways" of living. Cuba may look like a hell from your perspective (mainly influenced by Hollywood crap) However if you look deeply you may find certain facts that doesnt belong to the Cuba you think of. This was discused here before.. just search and find.
Castro is a dictator...1
Chavez is not a dictator is a wannabe dictator...2
Che was never either one of those...3
So a false dychotomy? Do not mix apples and oranges.
Probably the best explanation of why people do not like el Che is because ignorance. Ignorance as a condition is very easy to relieve, you just buy a book instead of buy a comic magazine. The other explanation would be ...let me see.. fear...?
About the movie "Motorcycles diaries" It only shows Ernesto's jouney through south america...vey inspiring. Nothing about, revolution, nothing about Fidel etc etc. That's why I mentioned it before.
I guess the only ones who really need and extrahole in their heads are all those nazi wannabe's and their followers. I hope one day the world decide to extermine that plague and crunch everysingle nazi insect once for all.
Viva el che.

[VansRV]

Anyone here read any of Che's biographies? He was not the monster portrayed by some here.

Good read with eyewitness accounts:

http://www.independent.org/newsroom/article.asp?id=1535

[Noble713]

I was specifically referring to his political agenda. Even though he may have killed people, his achieved a lot of good things. But you don't even want to acknowledge that.


I can kinda see where you are coming from; I look at Stalin in a similar way. Sure, he was responsible for the deaths of millions, but during his reign he:

1. Industrialized a backwards, agrarian peasant country in record time.
2. Led said country to victory against the most powerful and capable army of the day.
3. Deftly maneuvered his way into superpower status through cloak & dagger skullduggery (stealing nuke technology and setting up Commie puppet states across Europe), which was maintained by others for 35 years after his death.

That's a hefty list of accomplishments. But it doesn't change the fact that he wasn't a very nice guy (just read up on his revolutionary activities and actions during the Russian Civil War).

I feel the fault in your argument is your attempt to maintain a "clean" or positive image of Che. Instead, it makes much more sense to argue that virtually no one who succeeds at playing the game of thrones will have clean hands, and so denigrating someone's accomplishments because their hands are dirty is kinda silly.

[fantomas]

never understood why theres so much hoopla over a bloody dead communist, an ugly one at that. i wonder if this commie rat is spinning in his grave knowing his crappy tshirts are made in sweatshops and sell for $15. yeay capitalism!!

http://www.spreadshirt.com/users/63000/62441/motives/62441_668020_big.gif

http://www.spreadshirt.com/users/63000/62441/motives/62441_529916_big.gif

http://www.spreadshirt.com/users/63000/62441/motives/62441_461554_big.gif

communism isnt cool kids. ive lived through it, and wearin an ugly mug of a commie cheerleader like che aint cool either.

[Smersh]

another communism thread! Che t-shirts have nothing to do with communism. I would bet nearly all the people who wear them don't know anything about che or socialist movents. so leave policital-economic dicussion out, when talking about a successful marketing of che t-shirts by some companies who want to make money off his image.

[budgie]

Like I said duddes, read some books before blowassing some labels like 'Stalinist' around. Che was a failed leftist revolutionary who took up arms against repressive (but capitalist) regimes and it got him killed. Nothing more to him, so it's silly to villify him just for being a socialist at a time when it was in vogue. Had he been a young man today the most he would have done is step out and vote for some leftists like people have done in Bolivia and Peru and Venzuela.

[TacoDelRio]

http://www.spreadshirt.com/users/63000/62441/motives/62441_461554_big.gif
This shirt is win.

Sold.

[Violet Fashion by Mindy]

The reason why he has become a cult figure is not because of his political leanings. Rather because he stood up and died fighting for what he believed in.

Youth have always supported people who are "against the system" wether they are right wing, left wing, in between. It doesn't really matter.

*time to step on some yank toes here no offence mean't though

we are critical of people like Che yet it's interesting that a treasonous dog like George Washington who helped overthrow British rule in the Americas is considered immortal?

[LaoSexMachine]

we are critical of people like Che yet it's interesting that a treasonous dog like George Washington who helped overthrow British rule in the Americas is considered immortal?

Hahhahahaha. That's why i like your socialist ass, Min.

[Kilgor]

Like I said duddes, read some books before blowassing some labels like 'Stalinist' around. Che was a failed leftist revolutionary who took up arms against repressive (but capitalist) regimes and it got him killed.

He and his buddy castro installed a system of dictatorship, oppression and systemic human rights abuse. The populace have had no choice in their government in over 50 years.

To believe this is a heroic deed of liberation must be a new level of retardation amonst his followers.

[Loki77]

The reason why he has become a cult figure is not because of his political leanings. Rather because he stood up and died fighting for what he believed in.

Youth have always supported people who are "against the system" wether they are right wing, left wing, in between. It doesn't really matter.

*time to step on some yank toes here no offence mean't though

we are critical of people like Che yet it's interesting that a treasonous dog like George Washington who helped overthrow British rule in the Americas is considered immortal?

You are a comedian...

[Taekwondo]

Let's see a few of Che's achievements...

-"pacifistic" Che believed that militarism was the way to go with communism

-Che & Castros immediately exterminated the democratic side of the Cuban revolution, if they didn't support Castro's dictatorship. Thousands of democrats were killed, the rest were put into camps or into prisons

-Che practically created concentration camps in Cuba, destroyed free speech, turned the police into a political organization, and concenctrated power to the communistic party elite.

Before the revolution Cuba was richer than most countries in the Latin America, now it's one of the poorest. The consumption of calories per capita in Cuba has dropped from the top to the bottom in Latin America.

Oh yeah, Castro's goons have killed around 70 000 people, which is about ten times the amount of people Pinochet killed, but who do they call the bad guy?

Try to understand, that Che's dream for a "better world" meant a psychopath's dream for a bloodbath, where any opposition was to be physically destroyed and those who didn't want to take part in it became opposition to him too. Che's freedom called for concentration camps, firing squads and tremendous amounts of human suffering.

[budgie]

Dying was his biggest claim to fame. If he hadn't (died) he'd be sharing a
bed pan with Fidel but no one would know his name.

Actually Che left Cuba to 'spread the revolution' because he didn't like the autocratic way Castro was running things.

[XShipRider]

Actually Che left Cuba to 'spread the revolution' because he didn't like the autocratic way Castro was running things.

He should have stayed. Martyrdom is overrated for the average Joe (or Che in this instance).

[Herrmannek]

Actually Che left Cuba to 'spread the revolution' because he didn't like the autocratic way Castro was running things.
Usual bull****... Cuba was to small for two dictators thats all. Castro was that nice he let Che look for luck away instead of getting him done on the place...

[helomech]

Again, You must realize that there are "ways" of living. Cuba may look like a hell from your perspective (mainly influenced by Hollywood crap) However if you look deeply you may find certain facts that doesnt belong to the Cuba you think of. This was discused here before.. just search and find.
Castro is a dictator...1
Chavez is not a dictator is a wannabe dictator...2
Che was never either one of those...3
So a false dychotomy? Do not mix apples and oranges.
Probably the best explanation of why people do not like el Che is because ignorance. Ignorance as a condition is very easy to relieve, you just buy a book instead of buy a comic magazine. The other explanation would be ...let me see.. fear...?
About the movie "Motorcycles diaries" It only shows Ernesto's jouney through south america...vey inspiring. Nothing about, revolution, nothing about Fidel etc etc. That's why I mentioned it before.
I guess the only ones who really need and extrahole in their heads are all those nazi wannabe's and their followers. I hope one day the world decide to extermine that plague and crunch everysingle nazi insect once for all.
Viva el che.

Ah,my dear No Way Jose,you appear to living your narrow view of the world through rojo-colored glasses..tsk tsk.

Yes,Castro is a dictator.
Chavez is an elected official in Venezuela,although I think democratically would be a bit of a stretch....
Indeed Che was neither but he is indeed one of the ones' responsible for the current state of affairs for the Cuban people and their way of life.
I guess my way of living must be high and mighty:I expect running water that is drinkable,plumbing that works and to have a job that pays.It appears that you have never been to a third country and if you have you would know that's what third world people want.For Cuba thanks to your heros' Che and Castro they live like a third world country-so much for Communism!
To insinuate that I or others that may have similar opinions,Nazi wannabes or something along those lines is quite inflammatory but then again I would expect nothing less from those such as yourself-ACLU loving weasals who will be screaming for people with opinions like me to save them from the Castros',Ches' and Chavez' of the world.

Viva USA and Viva Target!!!!!!!!!

[Mastermind]

Well, maybe they will allow them in US military PX's, then...and don't forget the Congressional Shopping Center under the Capitol....surely any American Hater T-Shirt would be most welcome there. MM

[no-way-jose]

"Ah,my dear No Way Jose,you appear to living your narrow view of the world through rojo-colored glasses..tsk tsk.

Yes,Castro is a dictator.
Chavez is an elected official in Venezuela,although I think democratically would be a bit of a stretch....
Indeed Che was neither but he is indeed one of the ones' responsible for the current state of affairs for the Cuban people and their way of life.
I guess my way of living must be high and mighty:I expect running water that is drinkable,plumbing that works and to have a job that pays.It appears that you have never been to a third country and if you have you would know that's what third world people want.For Cuba thanks to your heros' Che and Castro they live like a third world country-so much for Communism!
To insinuate that I or others that may have similar opinions,Nazi wannabes or something along those lines is quite inflammatory but then again I would expect nothing less from those such as yourself-ACLU loving weasals who will be screaming for people with opinions like me to save them from the Castros',Ches' and Chavez' of the world.

Viva USA and Viva Target!!!!!!!!!"

The way Cuba is now is not a legacy of "el Che". Castro and Che fought together but then "El Che" Left. Socialism is way different than communism.
I am far away to be communist. The difference is that I can think and see that El che and Castro are not same thing.
Back to Cuba..if you want to make a statement about that island you should at least back your opnion with facts... and not hollywood or nazi crap... a book maybe the answer.
Che is not a Hero is just a man that fought for its ideals and I respect that, maybe your concept of hero is based in hollywood movies or a person that kills 6 millions of innocents.
Anyway if your a Nazi fan.. you've already known what I think about them.
Happy new year to everybody
And off course Viva America and Viva el Che.
Besides I will never buy my clothes at Target.:)

[helomech]

The way Cuba is now is because of the result of Che's actions,and when he left why did he feel he needed to go to Bolivia to wage war against that government?He obviously got what was coming to him.There were and are different ways to protest and not use guerilla actions to do so.He could have stayed in Argentina and made things better than what they were at the time. How do you liken me or anyone with similar opinions as a Nazi?Where is your factual backup?I'm not a fan of Nazi ideals or anything associated with it,it seems you're afraid of people like me:willing to use force to protect oneself and ideals but not abuse it.

Happy New Year to all...

And No Way Jose-you need to rethink who you idolize and open your eyes and ears to what's really happening the world

[California Joe]

Carlos Santana IS Che....Just put a beret on him...

http://imagecache2.allposters.com/images/pic/54/039_41411~Carlos-Santana-Posters.jpg

The idea that a bunch of kids in America wear that shirt whilst driving around in their Beemers listening to Ipods thinking they're rebelling against authority without even knowing where Cuba is on a map or anything about the time period or the politics involved is f*cking bizarre. Without that one graphic, single color, screen print image nobody would even have heard of this guy.

[helomech]

Carlos Santana IS Che....Just put a beret on him...

http://imagecache2.allposters.com/images/pic/54/039_41411~Carlos-Santana-Posters.jpg

The idea that a bunch of kids in America wear that shirt whilst driving around in their Beemers listening to Ipods thinking they're rebelling against authority without even knowing where Cuba is on a map or anything about the time period or the politics involved is f*cking bizarre. Without that one graphic, single color, screen print image nobody would even have heard of this guy.

Fcuking A Bubba........

[v-twin]

That's good! I've always wondered why Communist symbols are 'ok' to show off like Guevara.

[Laconian]

Carlos Santana IS Che....Just put a beret on him...

http://imagecache2.allposters.com/images/pic/54/039_41411~Carlos-Santana-Posters.jpg

The idea that a bunch of kids in America wear that shirt whilst driving around in their Beemers listening to Ipods thinking they're rebelling against authority without even knowing where Cuba is on a map or anything about the time period or the politics involved is f*cking bizarre. Without that one graphic, single color, screen print image nobody would even have heard of this guy.

Ain't that the truth!!!