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mugs69
12-27-2006, 08:40 PM
http://www.youtube.com/v/bnzA_8Juw94&

In the above video the American, who I assume to be SOF, speaks of 2 KIA. Anyone got any info?

http://www.youtube.com/v/LogdQAweBkA&

Hypno85
12-27-2006, 09:00 PM
Good video thanks for the posting them hopefully one of the Dutch members can translate some of it.

zealot
12-27-2006, 09:04 PM
good vids thnx.. any dutch or flemish speakers!?!? ....

Ghostryder
12-27-2006, 09:23 PM
I've never seen the second video,

Masterful sir.

Flavius22
12-27-2006, 09:45 PM
thanks for posting this

ZoneOne
12-27-2006, 10:22 PM
Interesting video

RIP to fallen - Most of the Dutch I've been around speak perfect English, but the guy towards the end (of the first video) is definitely American.

GuLfCoAStKilla1
12-27-2006, 10:52 PM
Man that 1st vid was INTENSE! The auto M4's (correct me if I'm wrong) were awesome.

Niels
12-27-2006, 11:20 PM
Posted before but good vids.

In the above video the American, who I assume to be SOF, speaks of 2 KIA. Anyone got any info? Those 2 KIA's are ANA/ANP, the convoy they were in got ambushed. The American operator is probably US Army SF.

good vids thnx.. any dutch or flemish speakers!?!? ....
One here.

nilz
12-27-2006, 11:44 PM
Good video thanks for the posting them hopefully one of the Dutch members can translate some of it.

Not that much to translate, really.

Second vid speaks about how they've been taking fire from up where they're shooting at. They're marking a target for 2 US F18's with the .50

F18 pilots report glowing bodyparts on thermal after the explosion.

Oh, and the Dutch commandos use Diemaco C8's

grtz,
nilz

Far
12-27-2006, 11:48 PM
Outstanding videos. Thank you very much.

It's a trip to see these guys under fire. Their demeanor is calm and collected and they even are smiling. Real professionals.

ZoneOne
12-27-2006, 11:54 PM
Not that much to translate, really.

Second vid speaks about how they've been taking fire from up where they're shooting at. They're marking a target for 2 US F18's with the .50

F18 pilots report glowing bodyparts on thermal after the explosion.

Oh, and the Dutch commandos use Diemaco C8's

grtz,
nilz

Diemaco's are basically Colts. C8 is a m4 w/ a polymer magazine. Fires the same ammo, design is exact same (inside and out).

It's easy for someone to just call it an M4 with out full knowledge of what the individuals are using.


Outstanding videos. Thank you very much.

It's a trip to see these guys under fire. Their demeanor is calm and collected and they even are smiling. Real professionals.

They have to be... but it is rather sobering to see it. You would think any normal, rational human being wouldn't act like that but they do.

astro
12-28-2006, 12:30 AM
Outstanding videos.

I find it interesting from a non-Danish speaking point of view, what it must be like for citizens / anyone on the recieving end of a military force that doesn't speak your language. Puts hand signals and tone of voice all into perspective.

sp2c
12-28-2006, 01:41 AM
the guys in the video probably have the same problem with Danish

andreen
12-28-2006, 04:48 AM
What sort of LRPV/LRRV do the Dutch Commandos use in the second video?

sp2c
12-28-2006, 04:52 AM
mb gwagons

Sato
12-28-2006, 04:58 AM
" hey pak die wijven op nou, komaan "

rofl

Recce28
12-28-2006, 05:07 AM
A converted Mercedes Wolf

Arma
12-28-2006, 05:21 AM
Actually,
This was part of a documentary by journalist Vic Franken who was embedden with the dutch commandos for several weeks. In the incident you just saw Vic emptied all the batteries for his camera and in the heat of battle grabbed a C8 of one of the commandos manning a .50 and used the weapon for self defence (the had gotten some lessons back at base). You can guess that this (a civie actually using a weapon in combat) sparked quite the discussion here in holland.

The whole doc as seen on Dutch tv:
http://video.google.nl/videoplay?docid=4927518454999521314

I'm not gonna translate the whole hour but general tone of the SF operators: Our government and top military brass dont know what they're doing and they've kept our hands bound

Dutchman2
12-28-2006, 06:17 AM
I can't believe what I saw! Amazing footage!

dez000
12-28-2006, 06:21 AM
Nice video's!

Xlimit
12-28-2006, 06:23 AM
In the first vid. when you see a SF reload his C8, he says to the moviemaker, 'Wanna go home?'

Love that part :p

Abbadon the Despoiler
12-28-2006, 06:30 AM
Great work

Arma
12-28-2006, 06:33 AM
Actually those vids were part of a documentary of filmmaker Vik Franken who was empbedden with the Dutch SF for a month or so.
The whole doc can be seen here:
http://video.google.nl/videoplay?docid=4927518454999521314

I will not translate the whole hour's worth but the general tone of the interviews:
The government and the high brass "armchair generals" are keeping our hands bound and are keeping their heads in the sand for what's really going on.
Most noticably is the Case study that is being held with a civvie Prosecutor (in theater!) that is judging there whether or not the actions of the previous day were "prosecution worthy".
Friggin madness if you ask me.

Drat double posted it... Mod del please

Leadenlegacy
12-28-2006, 06:40 AM
What the **** is your problem, that has absolutely nothing to do with these nice video's so don't start a flame war.

Xlimit
12-28-2006, 06:56 AM
There were people who were translating the vid to english but i can't remember who he is, sp2c maybe?

Finally some dutch combat footage!

sp2c
12-28-2006, 07:34 AM
yes but I stopped for some reason

don't really remember what it was though

Murb
12-28-2006, 07:35 AM
The US SF operator does a good job. When he hears that shouting from behind the corner in the last few secs of that vid he acts verz cool: "Stay down.. it's for us" or something like that :)
Respect to our dutch comrades. They are doing a very good job as well!

Ipkiss
12-28-2006, 08:08 AM
The US SF operator does a good job. When he hears that shouting from behind the corner in the last few secs of that vid he acts verz cool: "Stay down.. it's for us" or something like that :)
Respect to our dutch comrades. They are doing a very good job as well!

I think he says "that's us." It's being translated as: 'that our own fire'

I think it's praiseworthy that they can actually say what they think on Dutch TV. Because they have some great criticism on what they are doing and how they must do it. They actually say "this is not our job. Our job is to find and eliminate key-figures. This is something an airmobile or mech infantry unit could and should do." Must be frustrating for these guys.

BOOTJE
12-28-2006, 08:15 AM
Actually,
This was part of a documentary by journalist Vic Franken who was embedden with the dutch commandos for several weeks. In the incident you just saw Vic emptied all the batteries for his camera and in the heat of battle grabbed a C8 of one of the commandos manning a .50 and used the weapon for self defence (the had gotten some lessons back at base). You can guess that this (a civie actually using a weapon in combat) sparked quite the discussion here in holland.

The whole doc as seen on Dutch tv:
http://video.google.nl/videoplay?docid=4927518454999521314

I'm not gonna translate the whole hour but general tone of the SF operators: Our government and top military brass dont know what they're doing and they've kept our hands bound

Vic Franke used to be an infantry officer when he was a "dientplichtige"/conscript. He kinda knew how to react when he saw muzzle flashes in front of him. In many interviews after his documantry he describes his action as self defense and not as showing of "cowboy" behaviour.

Arma
12-28-2006, 08:20 AM
I agree but then again most of his journalist colleagues and and lot of politicians see that quite differently.. :)

sp2c
12-28-2006, 08:59 AM
not just a civy but a journalist joining the fight which is wrong in more ways then one.

but as he explained it in some interview, he wasn't there as a journalist he was there as a filmmaker doing a "biased" (not independant in any case, the goal was to make the guys look good :)) documentary about the commando's, also he was more or less in uniform (he had the beard!) so that being the case I don't really have any beef with the guy anymore ... he's ok in my book again :)

DaGreatRV
12-28-2006, 09:06 AM
I just love it in the first vid when SF's come running by you hear them say "hi Vik" and at another time they ask "how are you?", "You OK?". But nothing frantic or hasty, no fear in their voices. I love it! :)

It's nice to actually see why our Commandos have a good reputation abroad. woot

Christophe
12-28-2006, 10:54 AM
First vid, near the end where the two medics are working on a WIA later KIA;
the WIA seems to wear a subdued or IRR US flag patch, correct?
The moviemaker says the WIA is ANA.

Thor
12-28-2006, 11:08 AM
Anyone got a link with some BTDT comments on the vids?

mugs69
12-28-2006, 11:15 AM
Actually those vids were part of a documentary of filmmaker Vik Franken who was empbedden with the Dutch SF for a month or so.
The whole doc can be seen here:
http://video.google.nl/videoplay?docid=4927518454999521314

I will not translate the whole hour's worth but the general tone of the interviews:
The government and the high brass "armchair generals" are keeping our hands bound and are keeping their heads in the sand for what's really going on.
Most noticably is the Case study that is being held with a civvie Prosecutor (in theater!) that is judging there whether or not the actions of the previous day were "prosecution worthy".
Friggin madness if you ask me.

Drat double posted it... Mod del please

Thanks for posting that :D:D:D

Michel_
12-28-2006, 11:24 AM
`Posted before, but still very good vid. ;)

Seven81
12-28-2006, 11:30 AM
Things have changed quite a bit since our SOF are also part of ISAF instead of OEF. During the DTF they were still part of OEF and thus had a lot more freedom of movement. Under ISAF things are a lot more restricted, maybe also something to do with the elections here recently. The American is ODA, probably liasing with the ANA.

fantomas
12-28-2006, 11:31 AM
Dutch SF are tough mothers. much respect. great vids!

p$ycho+log!cal
12-28-2006, 11:40 AM
excellent vids!!!! thx alot! any way i can DL them on my comp???
i know some one posted a WEBSITE we could copy/paste the link of the vid we wanted and the website made a downloadable file with it?

anyone?

erazer76
12-28-2006, 12:17 PM
its posted many times here before
and there was a link to the whole doc. to download
i think it was in the dutch military pics tread
but which page? pffffff
so many yet

Michel_
12-28-2006, 12:18 PM
The link has already been posted in this topic. ;)

erazer76
12-28-2006, 12:23 PM
its not the link to download the doc
just to watch it on googlevideo

RHINO67
12-28-2006, 01:31 PM
Here a link to a better quality stream.

http://cgi.omroep.nl/cgi-bin/streams?/tv/ncrv/dokument/bb.20061120.asf

N-G-F-O
12-28-2006, 01:50 PM
Diemaco's are basically Colts. C8 is a m4 w/ a polymer magazine. Fires the same ammo, design is exact same (inside and out).

It's easy for someone to just call it an M4 with out full knowledge of what the individuals are using.



? Not so bud.
http://img106.imageshack.us/img106/251/m4uo4.th.jpg (http://img106.imageshack.us/my.php?image=m4uo4.jpg) http://img125.imageshack.us/img125/3513/c8assaultcarbinemb2.th.jpg (http://img125.imageshack.us/my.php?image=c8assaultcarbinemb2.jpg)
A fella can be forgiven for thinking they are the same when seen in passing. But if you have a good look, they are different. 97% commonality with M4 but that 3% is visibly different.
Try mounting a 203 onto a c8 without the c-specific mount. That's why we went with the AG36 for our L119A1's.
C series weapons have heavier cold forged barrels too, also you can have them manufactured with picatinny rails but why bother? The 'diemaco' or 'canadian' rail works just fine, 13 instead of 12 and marginally narrower too if memory serves.
Not jumping on you or anything pal.

wildheart
12-28-2006, 02:35 PM
quallity work holand! any more videos from this filmmaker?

Dutchman2
12-28-2006, 03:13 PM
Basicly, all AR15/ M16 type rifles are technical the same. You can dress them up as much as you want simply by adding different gedgets and accesories. And they will fit a Diemaco, Colt, Bushmaster, DPMS, FN and 7.357 other manufactures that built this rifletype in licence. The "BASIC" ***** versions from M4 and C8 are different in a few minor details. The C8 uses a lightweight barrel and the Colt has a stock that can be locked in a few more positions in lenght. But I saw a C8 with that type of foldingstock in Dutchservice to, so that tells basicly the whole Colt /- Diemaco story: their the same.

BTW, I spot a FN FAL rifle in Marksman service on one of the MB's! Cool to see that the SF like to pick what they actual need, even when it's 40 years old and 12 years out of service! Very cool! Great movie to, though! Never saw it!

Createdeemcee
12-28-2006, 03:46 PM
I got this from the sbs website, and i loved this tidbit of info in red! I know there are similarities, but the c8 doesnt have the removable highsight for better optics. to me our version of the weapon looks more comfortable.

Assault Rifle - Diemaco C8 SFW



http://www.specialboatservice.co.uk/images/diemarco-c8.jpg
Throughout much of the 70s, 80s and 90s, the main assault rifle of the SBS was the M16. A modern day SBS trooper is more likely to use the Canadian Diemaco C8 carbine. This is a 5.56mm weapon which can be fired full-auto or single-shot. For additional firepower, the C8 can be fitted with an under-slung grenade launcher. The C8 is essentially an improved version of the Colt M4 carbine as used by U.S. special forces.



British military designation : L119A1


Magazine capacity : 30 rounds.

Dutchman2
12-28-2006, 04:27 PM
The AR15/ M16/ M4/ Colt/ Diemaco etc. can be put together in different looks very easely. That pic from the C8 is a rather old one. It holds the oldstyle M16A1 Viet Nam era receiver with fixed carringhandle without the windage/- elevation adjustment knob for the rearsight, but with an M16A2 case deflector. The Dutch Army is/ was issued with Carbines (C8) and rifles (C7) with this type of receiver. The infantry and some other units received C8's and C7's with M4/ M16A3 type receivers with 'weaver-rails' that can hold opticalsights. From what I know, the Dutch army are now goeing to issue C8's and C7's that has weaver-rail from the front to the end in general service! The SF allready uses those C8's. Look carefully at the footage posted above.
I own a Bushmaster AR15 (civilian M16A2) for target shooting, and I transformate my regular 'M16A2' from a nothing-special-thirteen-in-a-dozen-plinking-rifle into a highgrade match rifle that can shoot 10 shot groups at 100 meters with the size under a inch (25mm). It looks nothing special from the outside, but it hold a freefloated matchbarrel, match triggergroup, Match rearsight with fine windage/ elevation adjustment. Only tools I needed was a hammer, pinpunch, and a tool to losen or tighten the barrel nut, creditcard and internet to order the needed parts! That's how AR15 are manufactured; you can simply remove or change parts in your home workshop or garage. I didn't like the Diemaco when I was in the Army, now I love it!

Xlimit
12-28-2006, 04:34 PM
Or you all take a look at http://www.diemaco.com

22.5degrees
12-28-2006, 06:39 PM
The guns are for all intense purposes the same thing. Same dimensions, same internal components. Diemaco is now called COLT CANADA. Sounds like its a subsidiary of Colt?(did you catch the sarcasm). The plastic or Thermold mags have not been used for about 10 years now. They suck, and they fail. I have some. They don't get used.

22.5

sp2c
12-28-2006, 07:37 PM
I've used plastic mags, don't know if it's the Thermold you speak of but I never had any problems

nilz
12-28-2006, 10:57 PM
It's easy for someone to just call it an M4 with out full knowledge of what the individuals are using.

I could easily have done that myself, I just happened to know, so I thought I'd clarify.

grtz,
nilz

devil99
12-29-2006, 02:33 AM
Very good videos, it looked intense! Thanks for both of em.

Seven81
12-29-2006, 03:26 AM
The plastic or Thermold mags have not been used for about 10 years now. They suck, and they fail. I have some. They don't get used.

22.5

We still use them even on operations. They suck indeed, tend to fall apart at the moment you need them. I heard of some guys buying their own metal ones.

Dutchman2
12-29-2006, 03:44 AM
We still use them even on operations. They suck indeed, tend to fall apart at the moment you need them. I heard of some guys buying their own metal ones.

When I was in the army, the Diemaco was just issued. In those days, the problem with the mags was a national discussion in the media. The follower of the mag was poorly designed, and they tend to eject the last two or three cartridges at the same time in the rifle wich caused a jam ofcourse. I had that problem during my basic training, but I never had that problem with my 5 thermolds I'm using in my AR15 these days. I prever the oldstyle U.S. 20 round aluminium mags though. I saw the guys from airmobile using aluminium mags because they say that the Minimi damages the Thermolds...