Taurus 24/7 SOCOM .45 ACP Combat Pistol for CCWs and Law Enforcement SWAT

[Silent_Hunter]

Taurus 24/7 SOCOM .45 ACP Combat Pistol for CCWs and Law Enforcement SWAT
Posted on Wednesday, December 27 @ 04:27:40 PST by davidc (http://www.defensereview.com/)
http://www.defensereview.com/images/topics/pistol.gif (http://www.defensereview.com/modules.php?name=News&new_topic=1) by David Crane
david@defensereview.com
Since the last two articles have been about new tactical rifles/long guns, we might as well mention a new tactical pistol to balance things out. USSOCOM's "Combat Pistol (CP) System (http://www.defensereview.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=920)" program (formerly "Joint Combat Pistol (JCP) System (http://www.defensereview.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=920)" program) is now kaput (at least for the time being), but the pistols designed and developed for it live on, including the Taurus (http://www.defensereview.com/%3Ca) 24/7 SOCOM pistol.

The Taurus 24/7 SOCOM is a polymer-framed, striker-fired, high-capacity .45-caliber (.45 ACP) pistol that was designed/developed to meet the USSOCOM Combat Pistol program specs. The pistol is single-action/double-action, so it can be carred cocked-and locked (round in the chamber, striker set for light trigger pull, safety on) or de-cocked for a double-action first shot. In fact, the 24/7 SOCOM combat pistol is reportedly the first...


striker-fired pistol to have this capability (single-action/double-action). The manual thumb safety/decocker is ambidextrous. Barrel length is 5-inches (5").

It's Defense Review's understanding at present that the Taurus 24/7 SOCOM Pistol will be offered to civilians and law enforcement (unconfirmed/unverified).

At this point, DefenseReview has only seen a photo of the 24/7 SOCOM combat/tactical pistol. However, just from the photo, it's visual profile is extremely similar to Heckler & Koch's HK45 .45 ACP combat pistol (http://www.defensereview.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=889) (which would make since, since they were both developed for the same purpose--SOCOM Combat Pistol System competition), right down to the black slide-on-Flat Dark Earth polymer frame color scheme.
When we obtain digital photos of the new pistol, we'll publish them. We'll also try to get ahold of one for T&E.


Company Contact Info:
Taurus International (http://www.taurususa.com/) 16175 N.W. 49th Ave.
Miami, FL 33014
305-624-1115
www.taurususa.com (www.taurususa.com)


Related Articles:
USSOCOM's Combat Pistol (CP) Program Cancelled? (http://www.defensereview.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=920)

HK45 and HK45 Compact (HK45C) Pistols: Future USSOCOM Combat Pistol (CP) System? (http://www.defensereview.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=889)

http://www.defensereview.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=967

[ZoneOne]

I'm rooting for the XD to win.

But here is a better look at the Taurus.

http://www.taurustactical.com/template_images/247contentPage.jpg

And here's the XD

http://www.springfield-armory.com/images/xd-pistol/XD9162HCSP06.jpg

[BadKarma26]

XD is the best candidate

[KillerBD]

Just going by looks here, but the XD looks like it copied the Glock... Just my 2 cents.

[devil99]

Looks nice, reminds me of a Glock, USP and a Colt put together.

[ZoneOne]

Just going by looks here, but the XD looks like it copied the Glock... Just my 2 cents.

The grip safety, cocked and loaded chamber indicator set it apart.
But yes, they are both rather "blocky"
It's like a Glock and Colt married - which is a lovely combo
I've owned an XD for a while and probably put well over 6,000 rounds through mine with NOT ONE malfunction. Best damn pistol hands down, I've shot it dirty, wet, grimy, slimy it always fires.

Edit - Looks like someone already made the comparison. :-)

[onefast93z28]

The XD is a great handgun (I own an XD40 service model) that is finding it's way into more and more law enforcement holsters...

[Seraphim]

S&W M&P45 blows the XD out of the water.

[Createdeemcee]

Just going by looks here, but the XD looks like it copied the Glock... Just my 2 cents.


From what I hear it is an improvement of the glock. And that new Taurus is a great weapon. Costs about the same as the XD version of it. In a competors market, I say that the Taurus offers more reliablity in the role that it was desighned for. The XD with its many safety features will slow it down in the heat of needing it. Not only does the taurus offer less features that have to be maintained before fireing, It offers better sights than the XD. All guns kill, I know Id rater turn the safety off and plain fire. Not have to make sure the grip safetys tight, and then have the possibility of a scissor trigger malfuntion with an extra small part on the gun.

[sergey31]

S&W M&P45 blows the XD out of the water.

How's that?

Have you shot both?

Has anyone done any sort of a test one vs. the other?


I own XD 45 5" and I can easily make 2" group at 30 yd + felt recoil is less than Glock 22 (.40 S&W). By far the best full size .45 (5" barrell) polymer out there. I use to have Sig 220 and it's a not even comparable to XD 45, a world apart in pretty much every category.

[Roaming East]

From what I hear it is an improvement of the glock. And that new Taurus is a great weapon. Costs about the same as the XD version of it. In a competors market, I say that the Taurus offers more reliablity in the role that it was desighned for. The XD with its many safety features will slow it down in the heat of needing it. Not only does the taurus offer less features that have to be maintained before fireing, It offers better sights than the XD. All guns kill, I know Id rater turn the safety off and plain fire. Not have to make sure the grip safetys tight, and then have the possibility of a scissor trigger malfuntion with an extra small part on the gun.

You ever actually shot an XD? It takes no longer bring an XD into firing than any other DAO pistol...the grip safety is an unneeded feature but does nothing to slow the firing process as your hand would naturally disable it before firing anyway.

[akd]

I'm rooting for the XD to win.


Miss this part?

Since the last two articles have been about new tactical rifles/long guns, we might as well mention a new tactical pistol to balance things out. USSOCOM's "Combat Pistol (CP) System (http://www.defensereview.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=920)" program (formerly "Joint Combat Pistol (JCP) System (http://www.defensereview.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=920)" program) is now kaput (at least for the time being), but the pistols designed and developed for it live on, including the Taurus (http://www.defensereview.com/%3Ca) 24/7 SOCOM pistol.

[Createdeemcee]

You ever actually shot an XD? It takes no longer bring an XD into firing than any other DAO pistol...the grip safety is an unneeded feature but does nothing to slow the firing process as your hand would naturally disable it before firing anyway.

Yes I have shot an XD in .40 cal. Was a nice weapon, However (During Life or death Sithuation) I wouldnt want a pistol with extra small parts that could malfunction. Now as a range weapon I wont take credit from it. Im not just gassing up the 24/7 because i own one. But thats just my opinion.

[maw]

S&W M&P45 blows the XD out of the water.

with all due respect how can you say that? i didn't think the m&p45 was even out until the shot show. the xd45 probably makes the most sense right now. i was going to switch to the xd45 for ccw but i'm going to continue carrying my 226 until the m&p45 comes out and make my decision then.

[Hydro]

What's this about "having a life saving second try at firing a faulty cartridge"? Rather than trying to fire a round that hasn't gone off, you'd be better off carrying out IA's to clear the stoppage.

If the primer fails to ignite, you get that round out of the chamber instead of repeatedly squeezing the trigger without effect.

[ed316]

Fastest reload is a second gun

[22.5degrees]

What's this about "having a life saving second try at firing a faulty cartridge"? Rather than trying to fire a round that hasn't gone off, you'd be better off carrying out IA's to clear the stoppage.

If the primer fails to ignite, you get that round out of the chamber instead of repeatedly squeezing the trigger without effect.

I fully agree. I don't give a cheating girlfriend a second chance, why would I give a faulty round a second chance? Unlike girlfriends I have many more rounds waiting to satisfy the situation.

22.5

[SMGLee]

I fully agree. I don't give a cheating girlfriend a second chance, why would I give a faulty round a second chance? Unlike girlfriends I have many more rounds waiting to satisfy the situation.

22.5


wow, very well said.

I think this is more like marketing lingo then anything else.

I still think the S&W M&P 45 is the best thing to slice bread or 1911.

[Hydro]

I fully agree. I don't give a cheating girlfriend a second chance, why would I give a faulty round a second chance? Unlike girlfriends I have many more rounds waiting to satisfy the situation.

22.5




<Insert "bang" joke here>

[Seraphim]

Have yet to shoot the M&P45. But I am comparing the M&P40 to the XD40. Same design. M&P has interchangeable grip sizes and completely ambidextrous. Only thing I dislike about the M&P is the slide stop. And as Chen has mentioned in the past, the M&P has a removable skeletal steel frame.

[onefast93z28]

Yes I have shot an XD in .40 cal. Was a nice weapon, However (During Life or death Sithuation) I wouldnt want a pistol with extra small parts that could malfunction. Now as a range weapon I wont take credit from it. Im not just gassing up the 24/7 because i own one. But thats just my opinion.

So what pistol would you trust? I've never worried about that and carry a 1911 or my XD40 everyday. Soon to be backed up by a S&W j frame, can get less parts than that ;)

[Roaming East]

...can get less parts than that ;)...
you could carry a rock :)

[Createdeemcee]

So what pistol would you trust? I've never worried about that and carry a 1911 or my XD40 everyday. Soon to be backed up by a S&W j frame, can get less parts than that ;-)

They all kill, but as I said its my opinion. The less parts the better. Thats less things that could go wrong, We all have our favorites. I just think the 24/7 package overall is better than XD's.

[ZoneOne]

Yes I have shot an XD in .40 cal. Was a nice weapon, However (During Life or death Sithuation) I wouldnt want a pistol with extra small parts that could malfunction. Now as a range weapon I wont take credit from it. Im not just gassing up the 24/7 because i own one. But thats just my opinion.

I've fired my XD during stress training and never fumbled to get a shot off. If you keep your Taurus locked and loaded w/ the safety on, during a high stress environment (statistics prove) you are more likely to NOT engage the safety and thus NOT fire a round. Thats why most police carry glocks. This XD offers an added layer of safety to the glock so you don't shoot yourself or have an AD while holstering your weapon in case something snaggs the trigger. No one seems to mind the grip safety in the "other" .45's and those have been around for just under 100 years.

BTW there aren't these extra little parts - unless we are talking about a different gun.

[Jippo]

This XD offers an added layer of safety to the glock so you don't shoot yourself or have an AD while holstering your weapon in case something snaggs the trigger.

How?


-jippo

[ZoneOne]

How?


-jippo

The GRIP safety - The trigger can be pulled and if the grip safety is not engaged nothing will happen.

The only safety on a glock is your finger. The same applies w/ the XD but that grip safety atleast requires you to have a normal shooting grip on your pistol.

[D-gin]

Never mind......Stated above.

[ed316]

Similar to a 1911 right????


yep .

[ZoneOne]

Heres a pic of my XD with my backup.

And a couple of knives I would take anywhere.

http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=19400&d=1166950244

OH btw the backdrop is King of the Mountain camo. 100%Wool - best gear out there.

[SMGLee]

If you keep your Taurus locked and loaded w/ the safety on, during a high stress environment (statistics prove) you are more likely to NOT engage the safety and thus NOT fire a round. Thats why most police carry glocks.

I think it really come down to safety and the willingness for a department to train their personnel. to say you could do this and that without looking at proper training is unfair to a certain weapon system.

Today's politics dictates that the officer receive a certain training, but most dept will not go beyond that. I still see dept that does square range qual. which to me is just plain wrong. If a shooter is well trained in their prospective firearms and train properly, i doubt the condition you mention could ever exist.

My cheap one penny opinion is the 1911 remain to be the finest combat pistol today, if you have to have something modern with safe action, nothing on the market beats a SW M&P.

the reason why XD has a grip safety is because the way the sear engages in this gun makes it a single action, the added layer is necessary to make it more secured.

[Jippo]

The GRIP safety - The trigger can be pulled and if the grip safety is not engaged nothing will happen.

The only safety on a glock is your finger. The same applies w/ the XD but that grip safety atleast requires you to have a normal shooting grip on your pistol.

I thought there was something else than that. If the gun is out of the holster, isn't it in your hand - that is grip safety is not engaged.

So in fact if you are reholstering your gun the grip safety is depressed, if you are walking around with a gun in your hand it is also depressed. If the gun is not in your hand in the shooting position, why is it in your hand and not in your holster?

I see a grip safety as an unneeded mechanical complication - one more possibility for a failure. It was a very good idea when the old 1911 came out, as it could have accidental discharges when carried cocked simply for a mechanical reason(hammer dropping as a result of mechanical failure or dropping of the gun) not to mention the user errors. In the time of modern pistols (and holsters) I find it obsolete since the weapons use more modern trigger mechanisms and are inherently less ****e for accidental discharge. For example, a "cocked & locked" glock will not discharge even if the slide is torn of the frame - it can't since it really isn't even actually cocked to the full extent until you pull the trigger.


-jippo

[BadKarma26]

theyre calling the XD the "Glock killer"

[22.5degrees]

theyre calling the XD the "Glock killer"

I wouldn't bank on that. Even if it secures a significant portion of the current Glock market. Those of us who aren't blind can clearly see it is nothing more than a copy of the original Glock. "imitation is the greatest form of flattery"

22.5

[ZoneOne]

I wouldn't bank on that. Even if it secures a significant portion of the current Glock market. Those of us who aren't blind can clearly see it is nothing more than a copy of the original Glock. "imitation is the greatest form of flattery"

22.5

Well then there are very few weapons out there that aren't imitating something.

I'd take an XD over a glock any day. Simple reason, I like the .45acp and I don't have fingers that are 12 inches long.

[Mark Sman]

Not that I have anything to do with the aquisition board, but it just strikes me as odd.

All this pissup? To basically end up where we started pistol wise?

dunno.

[maw]

Well then there are very few weapons out there that aren't imitating something.

I'd take an XD over a glock any day. Simple reason, I like the .45acp and I don't have fingers that are 12 inches long.

in .45acp i'll take a xd over a 21, but isn't glock coming out with a slimeline hicap .45acp? in 9mm the glock 19 is still one of my favorites.

[Laconian]

Personally, I don't like the look of the XD. It reminds me of the Colt All American. I've heard good things about them, though. The S&W M&P is getting a lot of nods and the .45 version is being sniffed at by the AF OSI, from what I heard. For me, I still like the 1911.

[Roaming East]

Wouldnt put much stock in the AF OSI doing anything serious, they already using the Sig P228 pretty heavily and switching out from that would serve no real purpose, especially in a caliber that the USAF does not support.

[ZoneOne]

OSI always gets the fancy stuff.

[jagermeister]

Why anyone would want a XD over a glock is beyond me, that said why anyone would want anything besides a 1911 is beyond me!!

really though how anyone can say the XD is better then the tauras when they havent even shot both pistols? some one sounds like a tool to me.;)

[sergey31]

Why anyone would want a XD over a glock is beyond me,
Because Glock's model 21 is big and fat and not suited for most people + it holds less rounds in a bigger package, it does not have striker cocked indicator, less supported chamber then XD's and over all fit and finish is inferior to XD 45 series, and I have both and can make this comparison. XD 45 is a better 45 then any Glock out there.
That's why.

that said why anyone would want anything besides a 1911 is beyond me!!
Because it holds 5 more rounds in almost the same frame, just a bit wider but not by much (as compared to Glock for example). It's more reliable, it's not picky about the ammo especially HP, Has less parts, Does not have unnecessary frame safety, it's polymer (lighter) etc etc.


really though how anyone can say the XD is better then the tauras when they havent even shot both pistols? some one sounds like a tool to me.;)
Because they have had very popular reputation about their semi- auto pistols in particular, holds less rounds, Does not offer anything "special" that is not already on the market, etc.

[8thidpathfinderpower]

Personaly, I would stick with the good ol' M1911 .45 pistol, in any situation, its hard to beat. And still, after 95 years, it still sets the standards for handguns across the board. But, thats my personal preference,and opinion. And, I will leave the great glock debate up to the experts.

the ONLY 2 pistols I have shot in any situation are the M1911, and the berrata M92. And, I will give credit where credit is due....the beretta sucks...I do not know about the new rounds, if any are being used for that pistol, but I do know the ball ammo that thing fires has very little stopping power. So, I will stick with my good ol' .45 colt M1911.rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl

[22.5degrees]

Because Glock's model 21 is big and fat and not suited for most people + it holds less rounds in a bigger package, it does not have striker cocked indicator, less supported chamber then XD's and over all fit and finish is inferior to XD 45 series, and I have both and can make this comparison. XD 45 is a better 45 then any Glock out there.
That's why.

Because it holds 5 more rounds in almost the same frame, just a bit wider but not by much (as compared to Glock for example). It's more reliable, it's not picky about the ammo especially HP, Has less parts, Does not have unnecessary frame safety, it's polymer (lighter) etc etc.


Because they have had very popular reputation about their semi- auto pistols in particular, holds less rounds, Does not offer anything "special" that is not already on the market, etc.


The Glock doesn't operate with a "charged striker", Therefore no need for a striker cocked/charged indicator. The XD is a single action firearm without an external hammer.

The supported chamber issue is only a real problem if you reload. Even at that it really only applies to high pressure catridges like the 40S&W. 45ACP is not a problem. For a mil or LE environment this is a non issue.

As for fit and finish, what makes you believe the two are superior on the XD over the Glock. Personally I'd say they're the same. Not much you can do to plastic to improve its fit or finish. The slides are both coated with some sort of durable finishing process leaving a low/non glare finish.

In reference to your comment about the XD being better than any Glock. Well, that's your OPINION. When the XD series has a proven track record like the Glocks, then you can beat the XD drum with vigor. As un scientific as it may be, the test done to a Glock 21 as posted on another forum(the link is at the bottom) eliminates any doubt in my mind with regards to their ability to function ALMOST all the time. I have yet to see the same tests done with anyone else's pistol.

For a guy who bashes Glocks and proclaims that the G21 is too big(which I fully agree, it is quite the brick) why do you own one?

http://glocktalk.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=462537

22.5

[Seraphim]

Hey sergey, I thought you loved glocks?

[ZoneOne]

Well here's a Glock with reloads in it.
http://www.thegunzone.com/glock/gindex2.html
figured I would just add the link b/c I found it interesting.

(BTW _ I'm a Glock fan.) I just personally chose a XD .45acp over any other polymer frames 45 out there. (Haven't tried the M&P yet Lee)


And here's a link to a Torture test that an XD went through.
http://springfield-armory.primediaoutdoors.com/SPstory11.html

When in doubt - use wikipedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Springfield_Armory_XD


Why anyone would want a XD over a glock is beyond me, that said why anyone would want anything besides a 1911 is beyond me!!

Simple reason as I stated above, I'll chose the XD over a Glock (Only in .45acp) b.c. my fingers aren't 12 inches long. I'll take a XD over a 1911 b/c I'm favorable of the double stack mags with the hi-capacity in a polymer frame. I'm a big fan of 1911's - I've owned a Kimber for years but at the same time I'm a big fan of the XD in .45acp.

[Jippo]

Well here's a Glock with reloads in it.
http://www.thegunzone.com/glock/gindex2.html
figured I would just add the link b/c I found it interesting.


That site is just sad, not for the blown up guns but for the guys agenda.


-jippo

[sergey31]

Hey sergey, I thought you loved glocks?

Yes, I do.

Not to long ago I was looking for a good (polymer) .45 handgun with a 5" barrel...... As far as I know only XD 45 "tactical" makes one (H&K tactical does not count as it's big as a suitcase and there's no good holsters for it anyway) on in a modern design. Glock 21 is a very nice handgun but it does not have 5" barrel + it's bigger (wider).
To be honest I never liked XD's and after checking XD 45 at the store I was sold on the quality of the gun. The polymer is better quality in fit & finish then the Glock and there is more metal on the gun then there is in a Glock, like trigger, guide rod, sights and even grip safety is metal.
With all that said, I would still buy a Glock in other calibers, they are both excellent handguns and when it comes to .45ACP cartridge, XD is better handgun than what Glock currently makes.

[AK74]

That site is just sad, not for the blown up guns but for the guys agenda.


-jippo

well ,i would still go and buy a Glock in 9MM if i can after reading all his articles about kB!s but i wont treat a my future glock as a "god-gun" either.

cheers.

[22.5degrees]

Yes, I do.

Not to long ago I was looking for a good (polymer) .45 handgun with a 5" barrel...... As far as I know only XD 45 "tactical" makes one (H&K tactical does not count as it's big as a suitcase and there's no good holsters for it anyway) on in a modern design. Glock 21 is a very nice handgun but it does not have 5" barrel + it's bigger (wider).
To be honest I never liked XD's and after checking XD 45 at the store I was sold on the quality of the gun. The polymer is better quality in fit & finish then the Glock and there is more metal on the gun then there is in a Glock, like trigger, guide rod, sights and even grip safety is metal.
With all that said, I would still buy a Glock in other calibers, they are both excellent handguns and when it comes to .45ACP cartridge, XD is better handgun than what Glock currently makes.


You still haven't given any specifics as to how you came to the conclusion that the XD has better fit and finish? as for the steel parts. Sights can and do come in steel(meprolight night sights) the guide rod is easily changed and a steel trigger vs. a plastic one is a non issue. How many cases are known of a trigger breaking? Obviously the Glock doesn't have a grip safety and therefore a steel one in an XD is a moot point.

I'm not saying one is better over the other. I'm simply inquiring as to the "facts" that lead to such claims of better fit and finish.

In reference to the XD torture tests, I agree they are impressive, it is nice to see another maker abuse their gear without reservations. However, the tests were completed with limited quantities of ammo as compared to the tests done by the gentleman on the Glock forum. We saw few pictures of the firearm before, during or after testing. Some tests have yet to be compared. Such as shooting your gun(which is extreme abuse if you ask me) as well as throwing it out of an airplane. No salt water tests were mentioned and there were no displays of accuracy before, during or after each segment of testing. Lets not forget that the XD was receiving short cleanings for approximately half of the tests. The Glock received none.

Again, I'm not trying to sell anyone on the Glock or XD I'm simply pointing out the differences between tests. It makes it hard to make a fair judgement. Thus far, I wouldn't feel undergunned with an XD instead of my Glock.

22.5

[ZoneOne]

I put the link up of the torture test to show that the Glock isn't the only weapon that will go bang when dirty, wet, etc.

People consider the Glock to be the AK-47 of handguns. Whether people are afraid to put other pistols through a similar torture test is besides me, but the XD went through some hell and went bang everytime. But I do agree a further more elaborate test would be something worth talking about. I figured I would just put it up here because either you (22.5) or someone else mentioned that they did not know of a XD going through a similar torture test.

Hey, if I ever get the money, time and have the effort. I'll get one of each, and put the same amount of rounds through them and test the hell out of both- but don't hold your breath on that one.

It all comes down to matter of opinion. Almost every major company will produce a good reliable handgun that is accurate. It's up to the buyer to decide what fits their needs and feels best in their hand.

If I had to carry a 9mm - I go w/ a Glock. However I have the option to carry a .45 - and I chose the XD, for reasons stated above (many times) ;-)

__________________________________________________________
Edit - From the article I have a question to anyone out there - Has anyone used the authors "SureSight" system. Looks rather interesting, kind of similar to the Steyr 9mm sight. Looking for input, I'd like to try it out - but I'm not willing (at this point) to shell out the money.

[Pete031]

apparently the Browning Hi Power out did the glock in the toture test according to the Australian Military. I have never been a glock fan, Most of my pistol rounds have been through a Browning hi power or Sig 226. I love the Sig, and am really considering getting an XD .45.

[jagermeister]

i dont think any pistol comes close to a 1911 or hi power....... JMB could make one hell of a pistol.

[ZoneOne]

i dont think any pistol comes close to a 1911 or hi power....... JMB could make one hell of a pistol.

I'm always in the search for one w/ a tac-rail

[jagermeister]

i got a bayonet on the 1911....

[Laconian]

A couple of company's make bolt on rails that are pretty nice. I'll try to find a link.

[sergey31]

You still haven't given any specifics as to how you came to the conclusion that the XD has better fit and finish? as for the steel parts. Sights can and do come in steel(meprolight night sights) the guide rod is easily changed and a steel trigger vs. a plastic one is a non issue. How many cases are known of a trigger breaking? Obviously the Glock doesn't have a grip safety and therefore a steel one in an XD is a moot point.

I'm not saying one is better over the other. I'm simply inquiring as to the "facts" that lead to such claims of better fit and finish.


22.5

I can only speak from my own personal experience. With that said I can compare my duty issue Glock 22 to XD 45 tactical that I've recently bought. If you were to look at the frame itself like serations/cuts, texture (molding) and frame to slide fit, take down lever, slide release and magazine release: you can clearly see that XD is just a better made handgun. Metal trigger is better than plastic one simply because of the feel of it, grip safety was just something that gives a bonus that it's actually metal (if it was plastic then it would score less points with me & it has nothing to do with Glock comparison).
Even if you were to take both guns apart (strip) then you will see that XD slide rides on more heavy duty metal inserts then Glock and even metal inside the polymer frame looks & seems better.
I 'm talking about factory base sights that are sold on the gun. Springfield offers better factory sights then Glock thats all, of corse you can and should get night sight but for those who don't care for them then XD sights are better.

I've heard a lot of stories of XD series had issue with rust. The new XD series pistols come with much better slide finish then previous models. If this was not done on the new models I would have never even considered purchasing one.

[jagermeister]

really though bud you cant think a glock is anything other then super reliable? this all comes down to what each person likes, in 9mm ill take a hi power or g17, 45 give me my 1911. ive shot XDs and they are very very nice but nothing that would make me give up a glock.

[StukaJr]

Saying that metal is better than plastic, just because metal is metal is not a good way to state an arguement p-) Steel, alloys and plastics are not all the same - it's all in the details... There are some shoddy metals out there, that's for sure! Thickness of metal has little to do with quality of metalurgy.

If metal is so much better than plastic, than why not settle for an all-steel gun?

Happy New Year :)

[ZoneOne]

Now it is possible a glock could withstand the same - but Guns and Ammo put an XD on a grill to see how well the polymer frame held up. 15-20minutes maybe more, however long it took them to cook a chicken fully, the gun didn't melt. Mind you there were little melting marks where there was direct contact with the metal grill but the frame survived fully intact.

Why is this important... I don't know. but hey if you are ever in a situation where the temp is 350* - your gun won't melt before you do.

I figured it was worth mentioning.

[sergey31]

Saying that metal is better than plastic, just because metal is metal is not a good way to state an arguement p-) Steel, alloys and plastics are not all the same - it's all in the details... There are some shoddy metals out there, that's for sure! Thickness of metal has little to do with quality of metalurgy.

If metal is so much better than plastic, than why not settle for an all-steel gun?

Happy New Year :)

IMO when it comes to polymer "frame" handguns, metal is a must in specific places (points) and without it the slide can not ride the frame.
How much or how is it used and designed is up to manufacturer, but I do think that certain details such as trigger, take down lever, guide rod, magazine release button should be metal instead of plastic, IMO it just gives a gun more expensive feel and as to function or durability, Well that's a whole another discussion.

[BadKarma26]

really though bud you cant think a glock is anything other then super reliable? this all comes down to what each person likes, in 9mm ill take a hi power or g17, 45 give me my 1911. ive shot XDs and they are very very nice but nothing that would make me give up a glock.

the only thing the glock has on the XD is time and the personal reassurance that comes with a time tested weapon...thats it.

what the XD has on the glock: better ergonomics, more safety features (that you dont have to think about in a stressful situation), and better sights. IMO the XD shoots better than the glock as well and ive fired both.



both pistols are extremely reliable...thats a given, but the XD is just a more evolved firearm.

[Seraphim]

A couple of company's make bolt on rails that are pretty nice. I'll try to find a link.

Dawson Precision

[Jippo]

both pistols are extremely reliable...thats a given, but the XD is just a more evolved firearm.

In my opinion, with all it's neat features it is simply laden with "legacy features" for the U.S. public.

About Hi-power: at least the ones army in here has(FN made) are complete crap. ****e to breakage, very difficult to shoot, etc...


-jippo

[22.5degrees]

Sergey,
You stated that the benefits to a steel trigger is "more expensive feel". other than that there is no valid tactical reason for using steel. I agree, parts that see a lot of use would probably benefit from being steel construction. However, I have yet to hear of any cases of a plastic mag release button or trigger failing on a Glock, or any other polymer gun for that matter.

The Meprolight night sights are FACTORY sights.

Where are these claims of a BHP beating out a Glock? Testing was done by Aussie's? last I checked they were issuing HK USP's and some Glocks for the special folks. I agree with Jippo and have experienced many failures with BHP's. Inglis, FN, and even a tuned FN that came from Novak with plenty of custom work done to it. That tuned Novak was being used by Kevin B. He moderates at ar15.com. As far as single action semi's go I'd stear clear of BHP.


Badkarma,
What makes the XD safer than a Glock? For starters the XD operates from a single action state. Already indicating a charged system. The safeties on the XD with the exception of the grip safety are very similar to those on a Glock. How the pistols shoot is relative to the shooter. I can't shoot a revolver very well, does that mean they're inaccurate? Each gun shoots differently for each shooter. Same story goes for sights. I see no need for adjustable sights. When you point shoot you hit what you aim at, so why would that change when using the sights? I watched one of my instuctors from SIGarms Academy use a 15 plus year old beater of a P226 with no sights at all consistantly shoot 6 inch plates at 25 with no effort. Made me question why I need sights at all.
22.5

[Pete031]

Where are these claims of a BHP beating out a Glock? Testing was done by Aussie's? last I checked they were issuing HK USP's and some Glocks for the special folks. I agree with Jippo and have experienced many failures with BHP's. Inglis, FN, and even a tuned FN that came from Novak with plenty of custom work done to it. That tuned Novak was being used by Kevin B. He moderates at ar15.com. As far as single action semi's go I'd stear clear of BHP.
22.5

I wasn't talking SOF I was talking about conventional Aussie forces. The SASR and TAG use the H&K 9mm. And from the horses mouth, they said that the glock, and BHP went head to head and they found that the BHP beat out the Glock over all. We are not talking about the vintage Inglis ones that we have in the CF, but new ones. Now I have lots of experience on the BHP and I think that it is ****. Most of my pistol shooting has been on a Sig 226. I think they are great pistols. So next time you are checking with the special folks ask them why the hell the are mounting elcans to their C8's.....

[sergey31]

Sergey,
You stated that the benefits to a steel trigger is "more expensive feel". other than that there is no valid tactical reason for using steel. I agree, parts that see a lot of use would probably benefit from being steel construction. However, I have yet to hear of any cases of a plastic mag release button or trigger failing on a Glock, or any other polymer gun for that matter.

The Meprolight night sights are FACTORY sights.



In the long production run, steel parts cost more than plastic. Some steel parts like I said just give a gun better feel and heck it even looks better and that is one of the reasons I meant that XD 45 has a better finish to it.

I never said anything about durability/reliability, that is a whole another discussion and both guns are pretty much equal in that category.
My preference in "polymer" frame handgun is just that, I like the frame to be polymer and all other part I prefer steel over plastic.

This is "standard" factory sights....They are plastic as well.
http://us.st11.yimg.com/us.st.yimg.com/I/cdnn_1928_47382047

Night sights are only by special order/request and extra $100 for the handgun. Glock does install them at the factory BUT they are not regular sights that 95% of Glocks are sold with.

[mohica]

I will chime in on this. The Glock 21 is too large for many users to handle properly. The reiliability/failure issues are well documented. The new Glock SF model to be introduced at SHOT addresses both the grip size and reliability issues. It is supposed to be one heckuva improvement and what the 21 should have been. I am very interested in this pistol.

The XD .45 has a couple of features I could do without. One is the loaded chamber indicator on top of the slide as well as the cocked stricker indicator at the rear of the slide. Totally unecessary. I view those features like the idiot lights on some cars. By the time your 'check engine' light goes on, you already have steam coming out of your blown radiator or you have run her out of oil. You shouldn't have to have indicators to tell you whether or not your sidearm is chambered and/or cocked, you should know that unequivically. The grip safety I could also do without but doesn't bother me as bad.

Have not handled the Taurus or S&W yet but will also see them at SHOT as well as couple of others that were intended for the trials.

If all else fails and until you make an informed and unemotional decision on a polymery sidearm if you must have one, get a decent 1911 and you know what you have.

I am not prejudiced and have both, Glock 17 and 1911's. My .02

[ZoneOne]

I will chime in on this. The Glock 21 is too large for many users to handle properly. The reiliability/failure issues are well documented. The new Glock SF model to be introduced at SHOT addresses both the grip size and reliability issues. It is supposed to be one heckuva improvement and what the 21 should have been. I am very interested in this pistol.

The XD .45 has a couple of features I could do without. One is the loaded chamber indicator on top of the slide as well as the cocked stricker indicator at the rear of the slide. Totally unecessary. I view those features like the idiot lights on some cars. By the time your 'check engine' light goes on, you already have steam coming out of your blown radiator or you have run her out of oil. You shouldn't have to have indicators to tell you whether or not your sidearm is chambered and/or cocked, you should know that unequivically. The grip safety I could also do without but doesn't bother me as bad.

Have not handled the Taurus or S&W yet but will also see them at SHOT as well as couple of others that were intended for the trials.

If all else fails and until you make an informed and unemotional decision on a polymery sidearm if you must have one, get a decent 1911 and you know what you have.

I am not prejudiced and have both, Glock 17 and 1911's. My .02

Well it's a feature that many could do with out but if they can be put there -- why not. If they fail, nothing happens. Not one of those features effects the reliability of the firearm. I have to tell you that not all of us have a memory like an elephant. While holstered it's an added feature that is just nice to have. While it might not be required to make a good firearm is an added feature that helps out in some situations. Walter has tried it in their PP / PPK and it's helpful (thats it)

These features are there to aid in the "comfort" of the operator of the handgun.

[BiZ]

I wasn't talking SOF I was talking about conventional Aussie forces.

Non-SOF sections of the ADF issue the Glock 17/19 where they can. The sole reason the rest of the ADF still use the BHP is because its replacement isn't seen as a priority for the costs associated with such. Nothing more.

[mohica]

I have to tell you that not all of us have a memory like an elephant. These features are there to aid in the "comfort" of the operator of the handgun.

????. If your memory fails and you don't know whether your sidearm is chambered and/or cocked, you have no business carrying one. Comfort? How about training? There is no substitute.

[Jippo]

Well it's a feature that many could do with out but if they can be put there -- why not. If they fail, nothing happens. Not one of those features effects the reliability of the firearm.

Since people compare to Glocks: it has the same feature. Since it isn't DA/SA weapon it is always "cocked", if the extractor is extruding from the slide surface round is chambered. There is no need for additional parts to inform the operator of the status of the gun.

But as mohica just said...


-jippo

[Jippo]

Night sights are only by special order/request and extra $100 for the handgun. Glock does install them at the factory BUT they are not regular sights that 95% of Glocks are sold with.

Night sights are standard on specific models, namely the "pro" series. they don't come without.


-jippo

[Pete031]

Non-SOF sections of the ADF issue the Glock 17/19 where they can. The sole reason the rest of the ADF still use the BHP is because its replacement isn't seen as a priority for the costs associated with such. Nothing more.

Well,
I was talking to one of your Airfield defense units, and that what they said. Their BHP were a lot nicer than ours, But as I said I think that the BHP is **** anyways. Much prefer t he 226.

[Createdeemcee]

I'm always in the search for one w/ a tac-rail


Ironically Taurus has an affordable model coming out!

http://www.taurustactical.com/template_images/taurusTacticalManual07.pdf

[Vandervahn]

????. If your memory fails and you don't know whether your sidearm is chambered and/or cocked, you have no business carrying one. Comfort? How about training? There is no substitute.

People also tend to forget everyday information like their own phone number or debit card PIN. Noone is too "highspeed" that he may never be in the situation to make use of such a double-backup, and indicating that this can only happen to "unqualified" persons is erroneus.

[Jippo]

People also tend to forget everyday information like their own phone number or debit card PIN. Noone is too "highspeed" that he may never be in the situation to make use of such a double-backup, and indicating that this can only happen to "unqualified" persons is erroneus.

If you think this is the case, wouldn't it be better to do it the Israeli way then? Carry the gun chamber empty and teach yourself to rack the weapon with every draw?

It would be safer, very safe truly, and certainly not any slower than fiddling around all sorts of protruding things on sides & top & bottom of your weapon.

When in doubt, rack?!


-jippo

[mohica]

People also tend to forget everyday information like their own phone number or debit card PIN. Noone is too "highspeed" that he may never be in the situation to make use of such a double-backup, and indicating that this can only happen to "unqualified" persons is erroneus.

I don't equate carrying a loaded weapon with "everyday information like a phone # or debit card PIN." THAT analogy is the only erroneous thing I see.

Loaded chamber and cocked stricker indicators have never been necessary in the past and I don't think they are now. Some may like them but I won't buy an XD because they are there. Personal preference.

The new Glock SF was/is supposed to have an external crossbolt safety as a requirement for the military trials but I have been told now that those trials are canceled, the crossbolt safety may be eliminated for LE & civilian use.

[StukaJr]

IMO when it comes to polymer "frame" handguns, metal is a must in specific places (points) and without it the slide can not ride the frame.
How much or how is it used and designed is up to manufacturer, but I do think that certain details such as trigger, take down lever, guide rod, magazine release button should be metal instead of plastic, IMO it just gives a gun more expensive feel and as to function or durability, Well that's a whole another discussion.

I was just pointing out that having "more" metal is not nesessarily "better" - thinner metal parts could be more durable than thicker ones, quality of steel or metal alloys is in the composition and not its thickness. That's all I was saying.

But if "expensive look and feel" are the only factors, that by all means it's your preference.

[Hispeed1]

That Taurus looks very nice. Ergonomic grip and a rail. The H&K candidate looks nice too-better grip. That Springfield XD looks like a "super Glock." I have heard much praise for it from a couple of people here. I kind of like the Smith & Wesson M&P and am considering picking one up in a 9mm.