M1 Carbine with Serial # removed

[xMarsx]

Don't want BATF asking me any questions! I don't have it and I don't want it!

[onefast93z28]

Stay away from it! It is stolen US government property and cannot be renumbered/

[ronrod71]

Defacing Serial numbers is BIG! It is a 2nd Degree Felony ANYWHERE. On top of that on stolen property.

[yiorgo]

yea....let the BATF find anything in your safe that is not registered lol or better yet missing a serial #......I wouldnt touch that thing

[xMarsx]

Good bull, fellas. I won't give that one a second thought.

[Hollis]

Good bull, fellas. I won't give that one a second thought.

Not only the seriel number stuff, Look at the receiver, pull bolt back slightly, if it says M2... that means big big big troubles.

[xMarsx]

Not only the seriel number stuff, Look at the receiver, pull bolt back slightly, if it says M2... that means big big big troubles.

What would that mean?

[Limeyfellow]

What would that mean?

It means he nicked an automatic weapon too as well as defacing serial numbers, US governmental property theft and a bunch of others things. Theres a nice long prison sentence generally attached if you are found with this, especially as its unlikely to be registered when it got smuggled over.

[xMarsx]

Wow. This is quite an education for me. I thought maybe no one would make a big deal out of a 70-year-old "war acquisition." I didn't even know that there was an automatic version of the carbine out there!

[xMarsx]

PS: I don't have the weapon to look at. I'm sure it's not automatic, though. It had a cheap scope on it and a sport stock. I think the old man just kept it around for varmint hunting or just plinking around with.

[John John Peters]

PS: I don't have the weapon to look at.

Surely what you meant to say was " this is a purely hypothetical question officer, and I have never ever seen any firearm of any sort with it's serial number filed off, in fact whats a firearm ?" :)

[J-Bags]

Wow. This is quite an education for me. I thought maybe no one would make a big deal out of a 70-year-old "war acquisition." I didn't even know that there was an automatic version of the carbine out there!

Yeah, the M2 Carbine about 700-800 crpm if I'm not mistaken.

[SMGCat]

May a private citizen who owns an NFA firearm which is not registered have the firearm registered?

No. The NFA permits only manufacturers, makers, and importers to register firearms. Mere possessors may not register firearms. An unregistered NFA firearm is a contraband firearm, and it is unlawful to possess the weapon. The possessor should contact the nearest ATF office to arrange for its disposition. [26 U.S.C. 5861(d)]

What can happen to someone who has an NFA firearm which is not registered to him?

Violators may be fined not more than $250,000, and imprisoned not more than 10 years, or both. In addition, any vessel, vehicle or aircraft used to transport, conceal or possess an unregistered NFA firearm is subject to seizure and forfeiture, as is the weapon itself.
[49 U.S.C. 781-788, 26 U.S.C. 5861 and 5872]

What should a person do if he or she comes into possession of an unregistered NFA firearm?

Contact the nearest ATF office immediately.

[California Joe]

*Calls Comissioner Gordon to light the Laconian light over Gotham City*

[Hollis]

Wow. This is quite an education for me. I thought maybe no one would make a big deal out of a 70-year-old "war acquisition." I didn't even know that there was an automatic version of the carbine out there!


My understanding the Feds would make a example of you, you would probably get max, a murder/rapist would get a lighter sentence than you. A terrorist would probably get a lighter sentence than a someone who violates the NFA.

Google Randy Weaver,

[xMarsx]

Yeah, I remember Randy Weaver but I was never really sure what he had done to get into so much trouble. S***, I only own 2 guns anyway. I got a remington 1100 20 ga that was given to me when I was 10 and a Marlin 30-30 I bought last year. I don't know s*** from Shinola when it comes to the federal laws

[Limeyfellow]

David Koresh and the Branch Davidians were also been investigated for illegal ownership of automatic weapons and look what happened to them in Waco in the end.

[yiorgo]

dont worry :).....its not yours so no worries...to tell you the truth most guys who tell you the gun is BROUGHT BACK from some war are full of **** anyways....I highly doubt its an M2 also...probably just an old M1 this guy bought and either filed off the number himself, or the dumbass before him did it....listen the fact of the matter is that there are people who do own unregistered guns ALL over....there is nothing the BATF can or will ever be able to do about that, black market **** happens every day....I just would never want to get caught with one

[AOCBravo2004]

I am currently confused about gun laws, I am living in Arizona, I know that the AWB has expired, AZ allows the possession of assault weapons. I would like to buy an M4, full auto, are these still made and sold (so long as they are registered in the National Firearms Registry)???

[xMarsx]

You know, the only reason i even considered buying this rifle in the first place is because it was a neat piece of history (or so I thought) I can't believe that someone could get into so much trouble for this type of firearm. What about all of those Arisaka rifles that are on the market? Does the BATF have records on them as well? What about Civil War era guns? What about flintlocks and such? Do they all have serial numbers? I can understand if it was a Saturday night special or something...

[Hollis]

You know, the only reason i even considered buying this rifle in the first place is because it was a neat piece of history (or so I thought) I can't believe that someone could get into so much trouble for this type of firearm. What about all of those Arisaka rifles that are on the market? Does the BATF have records on them as well? What about Civil War era guns? What about flintlocks and such? Do they all have serial numbers? I can understand if it was a Saturday night special or something...


I can admire that, but the same goes with MG42 used in WWII, they are of great historical value, but for a individual who is not a Class III license holder it is a financial suicide to own. Cruise down to the reenactor part of this forum and ask them. There are special situations, that I doubt will help you out. basically the M1 and M2 are only different in about 10 parts. Those parts in themselves are illegal to own and constitute owning a Illegal full auto. During the making of the M1/M2 the receiver is made, exactly the same for both rifles. The "1" or "2" is not stamped until, it is determine what configuration it will be assembled in. The original Military M1 can be easily converted to M2 configuration (need those 10 parts). The replicas M1 can not be converted.

For questions on full autos, I would suggest visit your local class III dealer.

Some full autos can be made into semi auto, but have to be done according to BATF standards. There are a number of WWII full autos that are legally converted to semi. The legal ownership depends only on State laws and not federal.

[yiorgo]

it is perfectly legal to own a full auto rifle....well depending on where you live, my state is VERY gun safe....if you can AFFORD a full auto, fill out the proper forms, and pay the tax(plus a yearly tax from then on out) it is perfectly ok for you to own...the only problem is that the cheapest full auto rifle I know of right now(that is worth a **** of course) is about $7000

and yes there are tons of old surplus rifles on the market...again PERFECTLY legal to own....because they are accounted for.....when someone ships these in they are ALL logged.....then who ever buys from that FFL has it transfered into their names...perfectly legal........your situation is different, your buddies Serial number has been scratched off....big no no....this gun could have been somebodies rifle, then maybe stolen and serial number etched out(will never know now,and all I can say is guns with etched serial numbers are usually used for no good have you ever heard of drop guns?..) basicaly the rifle is untraceable and stuff like that can not stand.

[xMarsx]

Thank you all for you great information. Now, does anyone know where I can buy a carbine on the cheap that isn't horribly illegal. No need for it to be a collector's item, just a shooter to have for fun (and for my boy someday)?

[punchinout]

define cheap?

Auto Ordnance M1 Carbines go for about 700 bucks.

I've seen Carbines in varying condition go from 350 to 1400(an original m1 carbine with the para folding stock) bucks.

[xMarsx]

Cheap to me = $300. Not looking for a museum piece - just a shooter!

[punchinout]

Cheap to me = $300. Not looking for a museum piece - just a shooter!



CMP way to go then, i'm joining.http://www.odcmp.com/rifles/carbine.htm

[yiorgo]

if your looking for a good M1 shooter keep your eyes open for PLAINFIELD M1s.....they are aftermarket M1 carbines, but the best you can get...run between $300/$500 these are very reliable and also accept USGI parts.....as far as aftermarket M1 carbines there are none any better than a plainfield

[onefast93z28]

I'll second the Plainfield M1s the best non-USGI carbines out there.

CMP just announced that they will have over 10,000 carbines for sale on or around March 1st of this year.

[xMarsx]

Awesome! Thanks, guys!

[8thidpathfinderpower]

I am wondering if someone can tell me where I can buy a M109A6 used? I would like to go deer hunting. I am looking for also a shoulder fired version of a us navy 16"gun that was on one of the battleships.



Do you think the ATF will be really mad if I go deer hunting with a howitzer? Do those cannon have serial numbers removed? Also, can I go quail hunting with a stinger missle?


Hardee har har!!!!

[xMarsx]

I am wondering if someone can tell me where I can buy a M109A6 used? I would like to go deer hunting. I am looking for also a shoulder fired version of a us navy 16"gun that was on one of the battleships.



Do you think the ATF will be really mad if I go deer hunting with a howitzer? Do those cannon have serial numbers removed? Also, can I go quail hunting with a stinger missle?


Hardee har har!!!!

Thanks for contributing, you ****head! Go **** yourself.

[8thidpathfinderpower]

Thanks for contributing, you ****head! Go **** yourself.thanks...it will give me pleasure!

[8thidpathfinderpower]

Thanks for contributing, you ****head! Go **** yourself.I love you too!!!!!

FYI...some friendly advice....next time you have a question about a firearm with serial numbers removed and wanting to purchase such a weapon, take into account what others and myself have told you here in this thread....you can get into some REALLY deep poopoodeedoo by posting questions like that over the internet. The dept of homeland security monitors these forums sometimes looking for words and text like yours..if you do have a question, in the future go to your local or state law enforcement or department of public safety, and ask them. They will gladly help you find the anwser. Also the ATF has a website with all the information you will need in the future....

Now, can I go pheasent hunting with a hawk missle battery?

[yiorgo]

shut the **** up you arm chair commando....he asked a ****ing question and NO he can NOT get into any trouble for asking a Question....do you have **** for brains or something...is he in posession of this rifle? NO...case closed you can say all you want on the internet and WHO GIVES A**** about what is being monitored.....hey dumbass heres a check for ya....the whole damn website is about military, current issues and so forth....so maybe if I say I want to go hunting with a HAWK MISSLE BATTERY the BATF will coming looking for me......give me a break retard.......or here is another bad word AL QUEDA YIKES!!!!!! oh man im REALLY in for it now

[8thidpathfinderpower]

shut the **** up you arm chair commando....he asked a ****ing question and NO he can NOT get into any trouble for asking a Question....do you have **** for brains or something...is he in posession of this rifle? NO...case closed you can say all you want on the internet and WHO GIVES A**** about what is being monitored.....hey dumbass heres a check for ya....the whole damn website is about military, current issues and so forth....so maybe if I say I want to go hunting with a HAWK MISSLE BATTERY the BATF will coming looking for me......give me a break retard.......or here is another bad word AL QUEDA YIKES!!!!!! oh man im REALLY in for it now

This is a great piece of journalism....good story, cool bleeps, and last but not least....latent hostility...bravo,bravo!!!!!! Encore!!! encore!!!


But I have a question for you yiorgo.....can you go wild boar hunting with a M110 SP 8" Howitzer? they got some REALLY big pigs around these here parts...

I love this guy....:hug: :hug: :hug:

[Durandal]

May a private citizen who owns an NFA firearm which is not registered have the firearm registered?

Actually, this is not completely true.

You CAN register it IF it was declared item coming back from, say, World War II (as in, you grandfather brought back an StG 44, declared it but never registered it with the BATF later). The firearm HAS to have been declared (and thus grandfathered).

Ah...to have been born a mere 13 years earlier when I could have bought a MG34 for 250.00 USD or a M2 for 900.00...

*sigh*

The original poster of this thread was simply dumb for even posting this crap.

[Durandal]

but for a individual who is not a Class III license holder it is a financial suicide to own.

Actually, a Class III is a DEALER license. You do not need a Class III Federal Firearms license to own a gun. The State has to allow NFA firearms first...in this case automatic weapons (since one or two states allow silenced but auto). You need, usually, to get permission from your local law enforcement official (Sheriff, Police CHief, D.A etc). You need to file for a tax stamp and background check with the Feds (pay another 200.00 for the tax stamp). If you get OK'd the weapon gets transferred to you and is in your name.

Financially, because there are a finite number of NFA auto firearms out there for public ownership, they keep going up in value. My buddy bought a lend-lease British Thompson for 17 THOUSAND. He then sold it the following year for 26.5. In 1970, you could get an M2 machine gun for about a thousand dollars. Now they range between 25 and 50K.

NFA firearms if you have the initial cash to buy a high demand one are a GREAT investment. Better than stocks, better than homes...if you are willing to go though the hassles.

[Hollis]

Yes it is a stamp. I was trying to keep it simple.

[Martino]

now children play nice...

[Hollis]

Actually, this is not completely true.

You CAN register it IF it was declared item coming back from, say, World War II (as in, you grandfather brought back an StG 44, declared it but never registered it with the BATF later). The firearm HAS to have been declared (and thus grandfathered).

Ah...to have been born a mere 13 years earlier when I could have bought a MG34 for 250.00 USD or a M2 for 900.00...

*sigh*

The original poster of this thread was simply dumb for even posting this crap.


Problem, Maybe grandpa does not remember, or is gone. It can be a dicey situation. One is required by law to notify BATF ASAP on discovering a NFA weapon in their position that is not registered.

Safest thing, IMHO, Do not go near, possess or play with a NFA firearm unless you know for sure it is Registered and the owner is with you (such as full auto shoots at the local shooting range).

Keep in mind on a M1 Carbine there are ten parts that will convert it to select fire. None of those parts are a firearm, looks like just general parts for almost any mechanical item, BUT they will cause you the same amount of harm as having a illegal machine gun (complete), even if you have those parts and do not even own a Military version of the M1 Carbine or any other firearm.

[~center~]

Problem, Maybe grandpa does not remember, or is gone. It can be a dicey situation. One is required by law to notify BATF ASAP on discovering a NFA weapon in their position that is not registered.

Safest thing, IMHO, Do not go near, possess or play with a NFA firearm unless you know for sure it is Registered and the owner is with you (such as full auto shoots at the local shooting range).

Very sound advice.
Keep in mind that anyone who legally owns a NFA weapon is required to have the paperwork on hand for inspection no matter where they take the weapon (you can't even leave the registered state with it without notifying ATF). This paperwork and NFA firearm may be inspected at any time by a LEO in order to verify it's legitamate. Failure to do so is a violation. So, if your wondering about the legitamacy of a NFA firearm, just ask for the paperwork. If none is available then run forest run.

As for the "grandfathering" of unregistered NFA firearms, to the best of my knowledge there is no longer such a thing, declared or not. The ATF has given numerous time frames for these types of firearms to be legally registered and are offering no new so called grandfathered items to be listed (this includes curio & relics). Any new NFA firearms not manufactured or registered under current provisions are subject to immediate confinscation.

Also, concerning firearm serial numbers, if the firearm was originally manufactured without a serial number then one is not neccessary. This does not count for newly manufactured firearms, only old ones; Usually prior to 1934 are the most common. I have sold numerous old shotguns that have no serial numbers simply because they were not manufactured with them. This is perfectly legal however, to purposely remove a serial number is a federal crime regardless of when the firearm was manufactured.

FYI... IAI is manufacturing brand new mil-spec M1 Carbines. They are around $400 and are great shooters. I believe Big 5 Sporting Goods was selling them and may still be for a great price.

[Durandal]

Problem, Maybe grandpa does not remember, or is gone. It can be a dicey situation. One is required by law to notify BATF ASAP on discovering a NFA weapon in their position that is not registered.

Safest thing, IMHO, Do not go near, possess or play with a NFA firearm unless you know for sure it is Registered and the owner is with you (such as full auto shoots at the local shooting range).

I agree, but that is what a lawyer and the Freedom of Information Act is for.

You contact a lawyer, have them do the search. You have client confidentiality (I'd go to a lawyer specializing in NFA and Class III...the exist) have them do a search to see.

Probably not an option in the case that initially started this thread, but the value of the firearm (if you intend on reselling it) is worth the trouble of the lawyer.

M2's for example, are selling for 7000 USD and up...

Oh, and the term I was looking for but did not provide is: "Amnesty Registered".

[punchinout]

FYI... IAI is manufacturing brand new mil-spec M1 Carbines. They are around $400 and are great shooters. I believe Big 5 Sporting Goods was selling them and may still be for a great price.

that was a long time ago, when we used to sell M1 Garands. All we got now are mosins, steyrs, yugo mausers, turkish mausers, sks's and enfields. I wish i could find a M1 Carbine in our system. i called down to our distrubution center a while ago to see and we are clean out. we still got bayonets though lol.

[~center~]

that was a long time ago, when we used to sell M1 Garands. All we got now are mosins, steyrs, yugo mausers, turkish mausers, sks's and enfields. I wish i could find a M1 Carbine in our system. i called down to our distrubution center a while ago to see and we are clean out. we still got bayonets though lol.

Well that sucks! I think I picked mine up in 2002. They used to have M1 Carbines and Garands all the time for great prices. Owell... Times change huh!! :)

[punchinout]

Well that sucks! I think I picked mine up in 2002. They used to have M1 Carbines and Garands all the time for great prices. Owell... Times change huh!! :)

I KNOW!!! lol if i ever go to corporate things will change...muwhahaha. but then again i don't wanna move to california and deal with all the california gun laws. washington is liberal enough for me. i'm gonna join the CMP and get a Carbine through them.

[Hollis]

Two M1 carbines, One is Military Issue, the other a imported reproduction. The difference is the mechanism, with those illegal 10 parts the military can be made into a M2, the reproduction can not.

I have a friend with several Military M1 Carbines for sale, if you interested, PM me. I will send you Email Address to him.

http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k226/Hollis6475/M1Carbines.jpg

[8thidpathfinderpower]

Two M1 carbines, One is Military Issue, the other a imported reproduction. The difference is the mechanism, with those illegal 10 parts the military can be made into a M2, the reproduction can not.

I have a friend with several Military M1 Carbines for sale, if you interested, PM me. I will send you Email Address to him.

http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k226/Hollis6475/M1Carbines.jpg

I have a question...how much are you selling them for? .....thnx

[wbear]

Speaking of Genuine Issue carbines if anyone comes across serial #1108783 I would pay a good price for it. It may still have a cracked stock repaired with wire.

[Laconian]

I agree, but that is what a lawyer and the Freedom of Information Act is for.

You contact a lawyer, have them do the search. You have client confidentiality (I'd go to a lawyer specializing in NFA and Class III...the exist) have them do a search to see.

Probably not an option in the case that initially started this thread, but the value of the firearm (if you intend on reselling it) is worth the trouble of the lawyer.

M2's for example, are selling for 7000 USD and up...

Oh, and the term I was looking for but did not provide is: "Amnesty Registered".

I'm not sure how much this may help. NFA weapon info is considered tax info and can not be shared with unauthorized persons. If you came across wpn serial #123XXX, and contacted NFA Branch of ATF, an attorney with a FOIA request may or may not get the info and if he did he would be forbidden to divulge tax info without authorization. NFA stuff can get very tricky.

Stay away from any F/A with an altered or removed serial number. Possession (actual or constructive) is a no-no.

All F/As manufactured or imported after 1968 are required to have a serial #. Part of the GCA of 1968.

[~center~]

Speaking of Genuine Issue carbines if anyone comes across serial #1108783 I would pay a good price for it. It may still have a cracked stock repaired with wire.

LOL, Good luck finding that Winchester manufactured carbine. I'll keep my eye out. First one to find it get's a lifetime supply of beer right? :)

[Durandal]

I'm not sure how much this may help. NFA weapon info is considered tax info and can not be shared with unauthorized persons. If you came across wpn serial #123XXX, and contacted NFA Branch of ATF, an attorney with a FOIA request may or may not get the info and if he did he would be forbidden to divulge tax info without authorization. NFA stuff can get very tricky.

Stay away from any F/A with an altered or removed serial number. Possession (actual or constructive) is a no-no.

All F/As manufactured or imported after 1968 are required to have a serial #. Part of the GCA of 1968.

NFA numbers are protected. I was not talking about getting an NFA number. I was talking about getting a firearm registered. This is called "Amnesty Registered". Any NFA weapon brought back from war time prior to 1968 is under amnesty, so long as it was declared by the person bringing it back. Lots of stuff was brought back from WWII and Korea and not all of it was declared. If it was and it is on record, it is still to this day, covered under the amnesty.

I agree that having a NFA weapon with no serial number or is not registered to you is a BIG no-no and not suggesting he should be shady about it.

I am saying he should be up front and legit and follow the law. He already said he did not have the serial number on it, but that may not matter IF it was declared item (which is doubtful, but you never know).

[wbear]

LOL, Good luck finding that Winchester manufactured carbine. I'll keep my eye out. First one to find it get's a lifetime supply of beer right? :)

I'd give beer, wine and whiskey!
I didn't know it was a Winchester. Someone, somewhere could have that rifle and I can't think of many ahead of it on my collection wish list. I would rather have that than Sgt. Yorks .45 or Hitlers personal Walther.
It's hard to believe it wasn't saved.