Winning the fear of tanks

[keimo lantio]

This video is quite recent one. It seems be filmed in Parola which is located in Finland.

http://www.youtube.com/v/neLz23n7KjY&mode=related&search= (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=neLz23n7KjY&mode=related&search=)

The idea of this training exercise is to overcome the fear of tanks. I really don't know how efficient method it is, but it seems to be fun!

Do you have had similar training during your military service?

[Jippo]

It is bloody stupid thing to do. One **** up and we get a dead soldier. Make them crawl under the tank, drive the tank over them with them in the middle not under the track, or put them in a foxhole and drive over. But not this idiotic stuff.

If a soldier freezes or slips the driver hasn't time to react or even see this, and the officer has no chance to save him either. Idiotic I say!

I did it as a tank commander for a day, and never had a more frightful day in the army. It really really was nerve wrecking thing to do as I knew that there was nothing I could in the case of a accident.


-jippo

[joshfox0]

It is bloody stupid thing to do. One **** up and we get a dead soldier. Make them crawl under the tank, drive the tank over them with them in the middle not under the track, or put them in a foxhole and drive over. But not this idiotic stuff.

If a soldier freezes or slips the driver hasn't time to react or even see this, and the officer has no chance to save him either. Idiotic I say!

I did it as a tank commander for a day, and never had a more frightful day in the army. It really really was nerve wrecking thing to do as I knew that there was nothing I could in the case of a accident.


-jippo

fcksocks yeh i'd be more worried as the driver! one mess up and its your fault!!! Crikey (PS you're lucky bsatrds to live in finland.)

[PeterG]

Looks a bit risky, to say the least! I wonder if this kind of thing is a result of the tank-scare many finnish soldiers suffered in the beginning of the 1939 war with the soviet union? Perhaps it has been a part of training ever since.

[zulu261]

Getting rolled over by a tank while beeing in a foxhole is or was also trained here in Germany but that one is a bit dangerous.

[Lt. James Anderson]

Being in a foxhole while tank rolls over you is good training. This is just plain stupid.

With any training with tanks you should stay away from them as far as possible (especially at night) since they can't see anything at close distance from the inside.

Accidents in realistic training DO happen (I witnessed some), especially so when you're doing stupid stuff.

[Ghetto Defendant]

No way I could do that...I'd rather clean toilets.

[Jippo]

fcksocks yeh i'd be more worried as the driver! one mess up and its your fault!!!

Driver is doing what the commander orders, so infact it is the commanders fault. But that is really insignificant and minor detail, it would've ruined both of our lives if we had ran over somebody.


-jippo

[devil99]

That looks idiotic. Imagine if a soldier froze of fear!

[Yimmy]

I have read of similar training taking place in the French Foreign Legion in the 60's, where the Legionaire was to tap the track with his hand as it drove towards him, and quickly role out of the way.

[Ravage]

http://www.youtube.com/v/neLz23n7KjY

[cagey veteran]

I don't see a problem...some rehearsels and an instructor tapping you with a stick.....
less chance of injury here than fast roping, or live fire company attacks at night....I 've done it where you stand and the hull taps you and you grab it and slide under
cool example of how soldiers dream up training in boring times...

[Lt. James Anderson]

I have read of similar training taking place in the French Foreign Legion in the 60's, where the Legionaire was to tap the track with his hand as it drove towards him, and quickly role out of the way.

It was Simon Murray Legionnaire: An Englishman in the French Foreign Legion. One of the guys doing that kind of training died. Tank rolled over his head so they couldn't remove the helmet.

[Yimmy]

It was Simon Murray Legionnaire: An Englishman in the French Foreign Legion. One of the guys doing that kind of training died. Tank rolled over his head so they couldn't remove the helmet.

Yeah I think that was the book. Thanks for reminding me.

[Mahoro]

Remind me of the incident happened in the Movie, Jarhead.....

[Jippo]

I don't see a problem...some rehearsels and an instructor tapping you with a stick.....
less chance of injury here than fast roping, or live fire company attacks at night....I 've done it where you stand and the hull taps you and you grab it and slide under
cool example of how soldiers dream up training in boring times...

Yes, it is possible to get killed in multitude of ways in the army.

The point is that this particular training serves no particular purpose and is dangerous. It may marginally help soldiers to win their fear of tanks, but same result could be achieved with the methods I mentioned earlier.

It is pointless to expose conscripts to risks that serve no training purpose.


-jippo

[kosse]

^ The changes to break your skull while running in to a formation in winter are bigger. How many people have died in mortar accidents and how many in training like that? I don't see any significant danger if the instructor takes care of his responsibilites i.e makes sure that anyone isn't scared to do it. I doubt that people who would freeze in a situation like that would be able to handle any weapons with live ammo without panicking either so the changes that someone like that would end up doing that track evading are quite slim (mental problems->go back home).

[Snoshi]

Whats the prupose of this? Being in a foxhole thing is much more effective.

[kosse]

Whats the prupose of this? Being in a foxhole thing is much more effective.
I think it's to teach to act while tank is near instead of cowering in a foxhole. Of course it helps to overcome "fear".

[Snoshi]

I think it's to teach to act while tank is near instead of cowering in a foxhole. Of course it helps to overcome "fear".

I dont think that you need to teach it to anyone... Even small kids know that if something big is headed for you then you just need to get out of its way... This exercise does nothing.

[kosse]

I dont think that you need to teach it to anyone... Even small kids know that if something big is headed for you then you just need to get out of its way... This exercise does nothing.
I believe there is more to it. Just hiding in a foxhole is totally passive experience that doesn't require to actually do anything unless there is something else such as lobbing a grenade on the engine deck attached to it (and even then the imminent danger of being driven over is gone). This one requires soldier to be active. In addition, this is a test of nerves where you have to wait for the permission to move out. It's working against your instincts that tell you to evade the track and therefore serves a purpose in training.

[kosse]

^ What I mean is that the soldier learns to act differently from a little kid i.e doesn't always do as his instict tells him but waits for a command/keeps his cool even though it looks dangerous.

[Jippo]

^ The changes to break your skull while running in to a formation in winter are bigger. How many people have died in mortar accidents and how many in training like that? I don't see any significant danger if the instructor takes care of his responsibilites i.e makes sure that anyone isn't scared to do it. I doubt that people who would freeze in a situation like that would be able to handle any weapons with live ammo without panicking either so the changes that someone like that would end up doing that track evading are quite slim (mental problems->go back home).

Yes, and if the ground is frozen there is no chance that someone will simply slip and be unable to avoid the track? If a guy dies in live ammunition training it is different because it is very difficult to train to work with live ammunition without actually doing so. This one trains very little if the purpose of the training is not to train the infantrymen to lay on the tarmac when a tank approaches. That is not something that helps you to fight tanks.

There are risks, don't be stupid. And these ones are not unavoidable ones

That training could be done in other ways that provoke an action from the infantryman but have much less risks: sit in a fox hole and throw a training grenade on it after it passes, crawl under a revving static tank (that's what we did in basic), lay between the tracks and get up after the tank passes and throw a grenade....


-jippo

[SchwartzerPeter]

This type of method is rather new to me.
I've seen them doin' this mostly another way.

http://tietokannat.mil.fi/helle06/include/thumbnail.php?id=165&width=640

[Reocid]

I did this exercise when i was in the army few years ago. Great adrenaline rush when u see the tank (it was t-55) coming at you.

[bluffcove]

The driver missed them all! More left stick!

[Jk=SWE=]

The driver missed them all! More left stick!

Rofl! Anyway, i think it´s a good exercise!

[Switek]

well, it's risky... but must be to bring effect... from psychological point of view humans are afraid things theh do not know or are beyond their control. This training allows to familiarize fears and know own limitations

[AT-T]

It's sufficient to drive over them when they are in the middle between the tracks. A foxhole isn't even necesary since most AFV have enough ground clearance (of course this training should be done without backpack). Additional task could be to throw a training grenade on the engine deck after the tank passed.
But placing soldiers in front of the track is just plain stupid. There are safer methods to train reaction time and psychological effect is hardly less then being driven over between the tracks.

[Bushman]

Remind me of the incident happened in the Movie, Jarhead.....

What incident? Can't remenber it..

[tanks_alot]

well, it's risky... but must be to bring effect... from psychological point of view humans are afraid things theh do not know or are beyond their control. This training allows to familiarize fears and know own limitations

Actualy the more you know about the capability of tanks than you are more afraid of them, every time i started feeling too comfortable in my tank something happend to remind me that it's a machine that it's sole purpose is to kill and as such you must give it the proper respect.

i fail to see any point to this exercise, it's extemely dangerous and serves no purpose, in combat you'll be wearing full gear and the tank will not be driving in a slow steady speed.
unless you got some AT capabilities than you should stay as passive and hidden as possible instead of playing chicken with a tank.

[kosse]

Yes, and if the ground is frozen there is no chance that someone will simply slip and be unable to avoid the track?

C'mon, isn't it quite obvious that training like that would not be done in an environment that is so slippery that you can't move on all fours? I think instructors have more common sense than that..


If a guy dies in live ammunition training it is different because it is very difficult to train to work with live ammunition without actually doing so. This one trains very little if the purpose of the training is not to train the infantrymen to lay on the tarmac when a tank approaches. That is not something that helps you to fight tanks.
Then again none of the tank training that was given in basic helped in that. They were more of a psychological drills with a bit familiarisation to the tanks themselves. That kind of training can't be totally non-risky or you would have to fool conscripts to think they are risky to get the wanted effects. Anyway, I don't see the risks that big compared to many other trainings with potentially dangerous materials.


There are risks, don't be stupid. And these ones are not unavoidable ones
Ah but I did not say risks were not involved. I said there was not significant danger present. Safety rules are already so strict that they are hurting training seriously. If this training was really deemed as dangerous as you claim it to be why are they continuing with it?


That training could be done in other ways that provoke an action from the infantryman but have much less risks: sit in a fox hole and throw a training grenade on it after it passes, crawl under a revving static tank (that's what we did in basic), lay between the tracks and get up after the tank passes and throw a grenade....
But they don't have the psychological aspect of nerve strain while waiting for the command to evade the track. I think this is more efficient way of teaching disciplene than ten drills.

[Switek]

Actualy the more you know about the capability of tanks than you are more afraid of them, every time i started feeling too comfortable in my tank something happend to remind me that it's a machine that it's sole purpose is to kill and as such you must give it the proper respect.

i fail to see any point to this exercise, it's extemely dangerous and serves no purpose, in combat you'll be wearing full gear and the tank will not be driving in a slow steady speed.
unless you got some AT capabilities than you should stay as passive and hidden as possible instead of playing chicken with a tank.

Ok mate. I'm not serviceman so my remark was rather general. Furthermore I'm not able to jugde this exercise according military needs. I guess its purpose wasn't only to know how to behave in tank's vicinity but rather as I mentioned to familiarize their own fear...

[helomech]

Reminds me of a scene in a movie named The Beast circa late 80's with George Dzundza,Stephan Baldwin about a Russian tanker crew in Afghanistan.They roll over some Afghan locals with their tank track in retaliation for the killing of some dead Russian soldiers.Good movie....

[Jippo]

C'mon, isn't it quite obvious that training like that would not be done in an environment that is so slippery that you can't move on all fours? I think instructors have more common sense than that..

Really?



That kind of training can't be totally non-risky or you would have to fool conscripts to think they are risky to get the wanted effects.

So you think the live-fire drills should have people shooting back to give wanted effects? Do you understand that they do not learn anything useful in this technique that couldn't be teached in a safer and more effective way?



Anyway, I don't see the risks that big compared to many other trainings with potentially dangerous materials.

What is your qualification to judge that? Have you done the thing yourself? In what role or position? Are you aware of the risks in other type of training?
How much more useful is it to lay in front of the track then in between the tracks?



Safety rules are already so strict that they are hurting training seriously. If this training was really deemed as dangerous as you claim it to be why are they continuing with it?

Because training officers are not thinking enough.

Doing an idiotic thing has nothing to do with safety rules or efficient training.




But they don't have the psychological aspect of nerve strain while waiting for the command to evade the track. I think this is more efficient way of teaching disciplene than ten drills.

Is it really? What does it have to do with discipline? Again, how much more effective is it than laying in between the tracks or crawling under the tank? Enough to make the risk of someone dying ok?


-jippo

[Jippo]

Really?



To clarify, these are my personal photos:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v355/Jippo01/Tanks/tank_familiar2.jpg
Training indeed happens also in icey conditions. This was my view of the training when doing it. This bunch had a smart training officer as they laid in between the tracks when we rolled over, others were rolling out of the way of the track which isn't very smart. I bet these guys didn't feel any less afraid with much less risk.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v355/Jippo01/Tanks/tank_familiar3.jpg
Explaining general characteristics.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v355/Jippo01/Tanks/tank_familiar1.jpg
AT drill with smoke screen.


-jippo

[MkH]

That looks unnecessarily dangerous to me. Accidents happen when explosives are involved, but that's just stupid. The driver has only a small fraction of second to kick down the brakes after the officer gives a stop command. Should a conscript froze of fear, it would not take but a small humane mistake from the instructor or the driver and he would be crushed under the tracks.

[kosse]

Really?

Snow doesn't mean it's too slippery to do it. It's up to the instructor as I already said. He'll decide the place and can have it gritted if need be.


So you think the live-fire drills should have people shooting back to give wanted effects? Do you understand that they do not learn anything useful in this technique that couldn't be teached in a safer and more effective way?

Are you stupid or just pretending to be? It's a known fact that extremely strict safety regulations heavily limit exercises. Anyway, I was talking about the pyschological effect of this certain kind of exercise. I'm not going to write it again.


What is your qualification to judge that? Have you done the thing yourself? In what role or position? Are you aware of the risks in other type of training?
How much more useful is it to lay in front of the track then in between the tracks?

I believe I am entitled to an opinion and if professionals say it's safe enough I rather believe them than some homegrown expert or reservist on MP.net. And yes, I have been in an evading track exercise as a conscript and seriously can't say I or anyone found it scary or overwhelmingly dangerous back then (or they did not say). I think I am also aware of the risks of tank not being able to stop fast enough and mental handicap freezing soldier. Neither are sufficient reasons to stop the exercises. If we are going to stop doing everything where panicking results in a dangerous situation we can as well close down the whole organization.


Because training officers are not thinking enough.
Doing an idiotic thing has nothing to do with safety rules or efficient training.

Well, I am glad that at least you are thinking. Obviously you have spent a lot of time organizing this exercise and know all aspects of it. May I ask if you are a senior FDF instructor?



Is it really? What does it have to do with discipline? Again, how much more effective is it than laying in between the tracks or crawling under the tank? Enough to make the risk of someone dying ok?

It's about working against own instinct and fear to evade the track and waiting for the command to do it. Certainly a matter of self-disciplene and and test of nerves. Laying between tracks or crawling don't have similar psychological dimension at all. From my previous post: "What I mean is that the soldier learns to act differently from a little kid i.e doesn't always do as his instict tells him but waits for a command/keeps his cool even though it looks dangerous." I believe this is characteristic that is needed in service and especially in a war. This exercise is basically like a drill that teaches exact obedience but unlike in a drill in this soldiers have a mental pressure to not to follow orders (that is to wait for the track to come close). It's not so easy to follow that order when there is a percieved risk involved. But that's the only thing that really counts in the end. You don't do anything with what looks like a perfect disciplene if it all breaks down when the first sign of danger appears.

[bluffcove]

That looks unnecessarily dangerous to me. Accidents happen when explosives are involved, but that's just stupid. The driver has only a small fraction of second to kick down the brakes after the officer gives a stop command. Should a conscript froze of fear, it would not take but a small humane mistake from the instructor or the driver and he would be crushed under the tracks.

So it trains the driver too then.
If you dont trust your driver to practice vehicle control on an exercise what are you going to do in battle.

[kosse]

That looks unnecessarily dangerous to me. Accidents happen when explosives are involved, but that's just stupid. The driver has only a small fraction of second to kick down the brakes after the officer gives a stop command. Should a conscript froze of fear, it would not take but a small humane mistake from the instructor or the driver and he would be crushed under the tracks.
What are the odds of freezing? Isn't it more likely that someone who is afraid is going to evade in advance of the actual order? I think the instructors also have the sense to not let someone who is too shaken by the tank to do this. In addition, I haven't heard of anyone being killed this way and how many have done this very same exercise in the last decades? Tens of thousands? Hundreds of thousands? Statistically for example mortars are a death sentence compared to this. I don't even think it's possible to freeze for a healthy man or a woman in this situation. Looks like history sides with me as no one has. But I don't really care, let's minimize the risks and close down the whole organisation or stay in the barracks and watch out for all them sharp corners while padding around in a protective sumo suit.

[Bzzliteyr]

Um, the video.. it's not a tank. It's a BMP...sorry.

I can't believe no other real tankers would take the tim e to point that out.. I know it bugs us here in Canada when we see armoured cars and APCs referred to as tanks.

[bluffcove]

good point Tanks for that.











http://www.nswtaxi.org.au/TEMPLATE/IMAGES/photographs/taxis_light.gif

[kosse]

Btw. my good friend hurt his leg badly when we were serving and is never going to run again. I'm quite happy that I have two healthy legs and intact skull after running up and down the barracks area every morning in the winter. I don't even want to know how many have been badly injured (besides my friend) while running in there. Ban moving outside in the winter I say!

[Scrat335]

Lets toss some more into this mix.

1. I'm quite sure those soldiers weren't in their civvies that morning. No instructor is going to have raw recruits doing that drill. Most likely they are throughly knowledgable about what is going on and are somewhat practiced in all of these antitank type drills.

2. If you aren't doing it, your enemy is. The point of the game is to be better than your enemy.

2b. If anyone has noticed the Iraqis are holding a highly mechanized highly advanced army in check with small arms in Iraq. Warfare is changing, the individual soldier is more powerful than ever and needs to be trained to effectively take advantage of his potential.

3.The instinctual reactions these recruits are learning can save their lives. If they are ever in a battle and in that situation, they MAY NOT FREEZE UP and get crushed because they INSTINCTIVELY WILL KNOW WHAT TO DO.

[Jippo]

Kosse, it is no point in talking to you. I have told you that the same effect in training could be done without the risk of someone dying. I have done the mentioned drill on both sides several times.

There is no point doing it the risky way if there is the safe way to do the same thing as well. If you insist that men should be put to risk without a reason, I sure hope you have no stripes what so ever so there is no chance that you will command somebody sometime.

Oh boy, you are a very tough and manly guy!


-jippo

Ps. and as said, some instructors do it the one way, some the other. So which one of them is right? You seem to think FDF instructors know all and make no mistakes, but it seems they all don't do it the same.

[tanks_alot]

Lets toss some more into this mix.

1. I'm quite sure those soldiers weren't in their civvies that morning. No instructor is going to have raw recruits doing that drill. Most likely they are throughly knowledgable about what is going on and are somewhat practiced in all of these antitank type drills.

2. If you aren't doing it, your enemy is. The point of the game is to be better than your enemy.

2b. If anyone has noticed the Iraqis are holding a highly mechanized highly advanced army in check with small arms in Iraq.

3.The instinctual reactions these recruits are learning can save their lives. If they are ever in a battle and in that situation, they MAY NOT FREEZE UP and get crushed because they INSTINCTIVELY WILL KNOW WHAT TO DO.

But what they are taught will put them in more danger if they'll ever be in a real situation involving a tank, do you know what tankers are supposed to do if an enemy is under the tank (at least in my army)? stop, switch to neutral and turn the tank left and right and even if the crew will not notice the person under the tank, what do you think will happen to that person if the ground is not even under the tank?

and what's the best that can come from doing that if all goes perfect? you emerge from behind the tank and throw a grenade on the engine deck? what will it do? we are not in the 1940's...

if you don't have the means to harm a tank than you need to remain hidden, if you want to educate your infantry on the best ways of dealing with armor than give them lessons and have a tank crew give them demonstrations from the tankers POV.

[Jippo]

...


Exactly so.


-jippo

[Jippo]

So it trains the driver too then.
If you dont trust your driver to practice vehicle control on an exercise what are you going to do in battle.

There is no way to stop the tank in that time. Driver in this drill doesn't drive, he puts 1st gear in and gets ready to stop. He doesn't do anything else. And there is a lot more than that in driving a tank in combat. Your granny could do this drill as a driver.

It doesn't train the driver, it makes him scared - this is something I know.


-jippo

[bluffcove]

So the driver learns to trust the commander who can see the recruits on the floor, he learns to drive blind and trust someone else to check his blindspots.

[tanks_alot]

So the driver learns to trust the commander who can see the recruits on the floor, he learns to drive blind and trust someone else to check his blindspots.

The tank commander can't see things that are that close to the tank, it's a blind spot for him as well, over here when you are driving in crowded places or in the tank garage and etc' (unless you are in an operation) the tank commander directs the driver from the ground.

[Wall]

http://tietokannat.mil.fi/helle06/include/thumbnail.php?id=165&width=640
That would be safer and same effective (?).

[Moledet]

Is that even a legal command to give to a driver? It puts soldiers under unnecessary risk.

[kosse]

Kosse, it is no point in talking to you. I have told you that the same effect in training could be done without the risk of someone dying. I have done the mentioned drill on both sides several times.

I could same the same about you. You don't seem to able to grasp the difference in this exercise and the ones you mentioned to replace it. Be it that way then, at least this lack of understanding goes both ways.



There is no point doing it the risky way if there is the safe way to do the same thing as well. If you insist that men should be put to risk without a reason, I sure hope you have no stripes what so ever so there is no chance that you will command somebody sometime.
So according to you my instructors and many other instructors too should not be wearing their stripes or commanding people because they put people in risk without a reason. At least you made your opinion about the FDF officers clear with this statement.

ps. Efficient training often has some calculated risks. In this case the risk is small - no one has ever got hurt as far as I know and while I believe this training serves a purpose it doesn't make me or the instructors using it any worse officers. I doubt those instuctors nor me for that matter would ever risk people for no purpose.


Oh boy, you are a very tough and manly guy!
Well, if believing in one training method makes me tough and manly I guess I must be :roll:



Ps. and as said, some instructors do it the one way, some the other. So which one of them is right? You seem to think FDF instructors know all and make no mistakes, but it seems they all don't do it the same.
I don't know. I only know that this exercise has a reason to exist and that isn't putting people in risk. FDF officers are no different from the rest of us except for their professional knowledge in their trade and were this exercise really so bad as you make it look they would have removed it ages ago.

[Jippo]

The tank commander can't see things that are that close to the tank, it's a blind spot for him as well, over here when you are driving in crowded places or in the tank garage and etc' (unless you are in an operation) the tank commander directs the driver from the ground.

Yeah, if you look at the picture I posted you can see approximate TC's view. When the guys were rolling from the route of the track the driver couldn't see them at all, and I could see them from waist down before tehy rolled away.

So even I couldn't see if there was a slip up, and even if I did see it happening there would have been a long delay in stopping: my reaction time .2 sec, giving the command .4 secs, drivers reaction .2 secs and time to stop .2 secs. Of course I'm only guessing the times, but in reality we would have been over the guys head before the tank had stopped. Nice.


-jippo

[cagey veteran]

wgaf, i think we all know now "who's scared" and who ain't!
anybody want to start a new thread? craziest training event you ever attended?
If you won't do it who says your enemy isn't doing it.
I floated (swam ) an APC in the petawawa river without safety staff, just under the direction of a SGT, and I have been in georgian bay in a cougar (6 wheeled LAV with a 76mm gun thingy)
just builds experiences and skills.
work at you limit or you turn into that guy by the butt can with his hands in his pocket.

[Ruoste]

We did the same exercise but with weapons and full combat gear (and the tank was T-72). I can tell you that it isn´t so easy to roll with our Finnish combat belt. It was a bit scary but I think it was good exercise. We also crawled under the tank which wasn´t moving and finally we made a short trip sitting on top of T-72.

[Yimmy]

anybody want to start a new thread? craziest training event you ever attended?


I once went on a NATO exercise in an ex Eastern Block country, where we flew for hours in a Herc for a stopover in a five star hotel in Istanbul, had a bit of a piss up, then flew the next day for hours to the country of the exercise, had an all night piss up in the barracks bar with all the other nations attending, then flew back home the next morning via Praque.

Craziest, and certainly the best all-round exercise I have attended in my life, and not so much as five minutes of training.

[IronFinn]

I don't know. I only know that this exercise has a reason to exist and that isn't putting people in risk. FDF officers are no different from the rest of us except for their professional knowledge in their trade and were this exercise really so bad as you make it look they would have removed it ages ago.

Kosse hit the nail in the head. These guys are training for possible war and if there is a change of danger (even small one), it only makes the situation more real. I really regret that we didn´t have such possibility while I was in the army after watching the video.

[DaGreatRV]

Well I learnt in science class how to make a molotov cocktail and that you should throw it on the air intake of a tank to stop it.


p-)

[Elmo]

I did the crawling under the motionless tank that is revving it's engine -thingy.
There was a bump on the ground. I got stuck by my combat belt. Couldn't move.
Infernal noise level. ****ty situation, quite claustrophobic. Managed to get rid of the belt and continue by dragging it in my hand.

Instructors found it amusing. I guess I went a bit pale during the ordeal...which took about a minute instead of around 10 seconds without getting stuck.

[Ruoste]

I did the crawling under the motionless tank that is revving it's engine -thingy.
There was a bump on the ground. I got stuck by my combat belt. Couldn't move.
Infernal noise level. ****ty situation, quite claustrophobic. Managed to get rid of the belt and continue by dragging it in my hand.

Instructors found it amusing. I guess I went a bit pale during the ordeal...which took about a minute instead of around 10 seconds without getting stuck.Hah, actually the same thing happened to me. Yes, it was quite ****ty situation to got stuck under the tank. Fortunately it took only some seconds to get to move again. And some other guys got stuck too. Now I´m wondering if instructors did it on purpose. p-)

[loganinkosovo]

How to overcome your fear of tanks?

Carry as many AT-4s as you can and tow a trailer full of javelins.

But always remember..... they travel in packs, so you may kill one but the rest will most asuredly get you. :)

[Lancero]

Portuguese para Close Anti-Tank Warfare training.

http://www.boinas-verdes.com/videos/anti-carro.wmv (http://www.boinas-verdes.com/videos/anti-carro.wmv)

[Thorgen]

Now THAT is dangerous to a whole new level. I wonder how many broken noses that training has caused. Also if you fail to fall correctly you'll be in a serious risks of putting a hand or a leg under the track (or even worse, between the track wheels). I'd also assume you could get a finger or you're whole hand to stuck on the track while slapping it.. However, of course this kind exercise will most certainly lift the soldiers self-confidence but I really don't consider the risk worth the (uncertain) result.

[Sabre]

Pointless, dangerous training. Simple as that.

Jippo is bang on. He should know, he's a bloody tank commander!

Certainly, infantry should have demos from armoured units and they should work together on exercise as they would on ops, but this is just dangerous.

Personally, I've never even seen a tank on exercise, but I don't plan on working too close with them.

Whether I had rolled away from a tank or not in basic, my reaction to seeing a T72 belting over the sand dune at me would be the same. I would f***ing brick it!

Their confidence would be boosted more by good instruction on ATGW systems and use of CAS.

[gilgoul]

Pointless, dangerous training. Simple as that.

Jippo is bang on. He should know, he's a bloody tank commander!

Certainly, infantry should have demos from armoured units and they should work together on exercise as they would on ops, but this is just dangerous.

Personally, I've never even seen a tank on exercise, but I don't plan on working too close with them.

Whether I had rolled away from a tank or not in basic, my reaction to seeing a T72 belting over the sand dune at me would be the same. I would f***ing brick it!

Their confidence would be boosted more by good instruction on ATGW systems and use of CAS.

Right on.
It is just like this stupid instructor who during basic had us jump in full gear out of trucks rolling at 40kmh.
We all got injured, sprained ankles being the least of our trouble.
Not only did it effectively stuck a complete platoon for several days, some for weeks, but two guys broke bones and one was released after several weeks of hospital.
This is the same "instructor" under whom responsibility 17 recruits were seriously injured, one losing a leg and another becoming a paraplegic, after a civvie car crashed in their night walk column.
Back on track, spend the time teaching of evasive methods and AT fight, even improvised (for that a molotov is more efficient than any grenade).

[kosse]

Pointless, dangerous training. Simple as that.
Personally, I've never even seen a tank on exercise, but I don't plan on working too close with them.


Huh..how about refraining from making comments like this on matters you have zero experience about.

[adamicz]

ACR

http://img480.imageshack.us/img480/4966/czet72mun2.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img265.imageshack.us/img265/778/czetraining04fv5.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[Sabre]

Huh..how about refraining from making comments like this on matters you have zero experience about.

Ok, I'll admit I have even less experience of armoured matters than Paris Hilton has of charity shops, however that doesn't make me devoid of common sense.

I've had plenty of training designed to make you face your fears (perfectly natural fears I might add!) and crack on regardless. I understand the need to keep your head and make decisions when scared and under pressure, and that you need to train soldiers to do this.

However, this seems like a pretty risky way of doing that, conjured up around a scenario that is rather unlikely to occur on today's battlefield. The risks outweigh the benefits on this one it seems.

[Niels]

I don't know, I think my fear of tanks would actually be bigger after I've shat my pants getting nearly run over by one.

[navy85]

I've done that too in 1985 in my basic training (Navy), thou for us it was a BTR-60, but it looks quite big from that angle. Actually for us it was forbidden to look at the vehicle, you just had to look down and wait for the command (ofcourse we peeked).
Then quite different matter; why is it, that where ever is a discussion forum, there has to be two Finns argueing (kosse/jippo). I begin to feel that no one else can hate a Finn like another Finn (if they have different opinions). Why don't we just hate Americ....Swed.....Russ....ok, i'll shut up. :oops: