Méxican Armed Forces: Videos, pictures, news,etc.

[Shadowstorm]

http://www.productosmendoza.com/tiro/images/hm3s.jpg

http://world.guns.ru/handguns/obregon1.jpg
Obregon pistol, left side. Note characteristic single safety / slide stop lever
http://world.guns.ru/handguns/obregon2.jpg
Other than FX-05. Here are some other Mexican made guns.

[Shadowstorm]

Now tell me how a beautiful thing like that wouldn't attract any buyers? Huh? p-)
And, if you can sell it a lower price than the competition, even better.
Yeah I see.

[Sasori]

but these weapons was specificaly designed for our people. That means our weight and size the fx05 would not really fit a person of greater stature and weight. But what concer is that of ours if any one wants to buy our weapondry why should we concern our selves with that let them be armed by the mexican arms industry and let them taste what real quality weapons are all about.

[Shadowstorm]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/6f/Buffalo_mine-protected_vehicle.jpg/300px-Buffalo_mine-protected_vehicle.jpg (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Buffalo_mine-protected_vehicle.jpg)
Have anybody in Mexico seen these vehicles, because I heard they got 22 of them.

[Sasori]

yeah i saw that report also that mexico had these in its arsenal but im not sure if its true. is it true that mexico got 123 lynx tracked apc from canada.

[Shadowstorm]

but these weapons was specificaly designed for our people. That means our weight and size the fx05 would not really fit a person of greater stature and weight. But what concer is that of ours if any one wants to buy our weapondry why should we concern our selves with that let them be armed by the mexican arms industry and let them taste what real quality weapons are all about.
But the HM-3 wasn't a popular gun in the military and only a handful of units got the submachine gun while others prefer the MP-5. Their were only a few thousand of the Obregon pistols made and many went to the officers and generals. Also their is a Mendoza RM-2 machine gun which has a 20 round clip, but I don't know how many went to the army though.

[jklv]

http://www.productosmendoza.com/tiro/images/hm3s.jpg

http://world.guns.ru/handguns/obregon1.jpg
Obregon pistol, left side. Note characteristic single safety / slide stop lever
http://world.guns.ru/handguns/obregon2.jpg
Other than FX-05. Here are some other Mexican made guns.
Thanks for that, I had not seen this one!

[Sasori]

what about the lynx reconasiance veichle is it not a version of the m113.

[Shadowstorm]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/25/Lynx-Bovington.jpg/300px-Lynx-Bovington.jpg (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Lynx-Bovington.jpg)
Here's the Lynx.

[Sasori]

yeah i got the pic on wiki i just dont know how to post them on the site wihout using a url.

so it says mexico received these from canada wonder why mexico dosent just buy some new of those french vbl armored scout cars they look pretty decent for recon and combat.

[Shadowstorm]

They also have these the AV-VBL.http://www.army-guide.com/images/avvbl_002.jpg

[jklv]

I found this pics of the S-4 in another forum.
http://img367.imageshack.us/img367/666/h3ea4.jpg
http://img72.imageshack.us/img72/8738/h4jd9.jpg
http://img169.imageshack.us/img169/4127/h5qa4.jpg
http://img469.imageshack.us/img469/1195/h6hv3.jpg
(Note it has a pusher prop in the back in adittion to the convensional prop in the front.)
Source: http://www.getphpbb.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?mforum=maf&p=117624
Here you can find information about this UAV: http://www.hydra-technologies.com/models.html

[Shadowstorm]

When are they planning to this in service.

[Sasori]

mexico should acquire some of the new veichles that are being deployed to iraq with the US there pretty amazing things they can take a lot of punishment

[Shadowstorm]

Yeah like these.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/f/fc/Force_Protection_Cougar.jpg/300px-Force_Protection_Cougar.jpg (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Force_Protection_Cougar.jpg)

[jackehammond]

are both you wolfpack and gatomalo military experts or not. Every time we propose any upgrades for the air force or the navy or army you guys just shoot down our ideas saying mexico dosent need them.


The idea of the czech jet trainer for mutiirole coin operations is a good idea that mexico should persue with gusto. If mexico cannot have high end fighter interceptors at least they should have a good number of trainers and older fighters in the air force other than a squadron of ten F5 tigers.


What mexico needs is numbers in the air force for jet planes there is no way in the world that a single squadron of F5 can completly patrol and cover the defense needs of mexico.

Dear Members,

It seems that Bolivia has its eyes on the Czech L-159. One European aircraft firm is considering trading a tactical transports to Czechs in exchange for the 52 L-159s and then selling them to Bolivia. But where is Bolivia obtaining that kind of money??????

Jack E. Hammond

[Shadowstorm]

That's a first time I heard this. Where their getting money for this possibly from Venezuela or from oil in their country.

[jklv]

mexico should acquire some of the new veichles that are being deployed to iraq with the US there pretty amazing things they can take a lot of punishment I don't think it is that necessary, since IED's are not a treat in Mexico, maybe the appo is the nearest treat but they are not that smartp-)

[Sasori]

i would say there getting there money directly from venezuela there is no doubt about that assumption.

yeah those are the ones i was thinking about there really powerfull and can take a lot of damaga from mines and such.

So mexico really got those canadian lynx and those 22 mine sweeper veichles.

[Shadowstorm]

I believe so.

[Sasori]

no its not because of ied or terrorist attacks those veichles are big and powerful there usefull for fighting in citys were tanks and humbees dont really have the speed or weight and armor to penetrate a well fortified part of the city without exposing a tank to likely being ambushed or a humbee completly being knocked out by a grenade or small mine.

[Shadowstorm]

Well after seeing some of these raids in Mexico with some these guys carrying RPGs, M-72 LAWs and some reports of mortars too. So they need to look into some vehicles like the Cougar and some new APCs.

[Sasori]

i was checking out the l 159 Alca and it looks like a sweet bird to fly it seems it far superior to our fleet of F5 maybe the air force should jump on board and buy them from the czech with these puppys in the air not even su27 can match them. you get six l 159 for the price of one su 27 talk about a good deal and these planes are barely ten years old compared to the su27 being twenty years old.

[jklv]

Check this article! Exportaciones secretas de la SEDENA
http://www.voltairenet.org/article143610.html#article143610

[Shadowstorm]

i was checking out the l 159 Alca and it looks like a sweet bird to fly it seems it far superior to our fleet of F5 maybe the air force should jump on board and buy them from the czech with these puppys in the air not even su27 can match them. you get six l 159 for the price of one su 27 talk about a good deal and these planes are barely ten years old compared to the su27 being twenty years old.
Will I don't know about that, Su-27 is a fighter while the L-159 is mostly used as trainer and light attack.

[Sasori]

thats a very intresting article but the fact is that the lynk with the 90 mm and the HM 11 are not produced in mexico if they were we would have more unless there going to sell these old equipment like the m 32 and m8 and acquire more armament.

[Wolfpack]

don´t belive what voltaire-net says, is justa bunch of lies, really it´s even worst than wikipedia and thats a lot to say.


This is cool! How can I get my hands on one of these?

I´ll send you via pm the email of the guy who can sell it to you, just tell him youré interested in FAM patches.

[gatomalo]

don´t belive what voltaire-net says, is justa bunch of lies, really it´s even worst than wikipedia and thats a lot to say.



I´ll send you via pm the email of the guy who can sell it to you, just tell him youré interested in FAM patches.


Thanks!! :):):)

[Wolfpack]

jklv Here´s the order of battle on the AF according to the institute of free acces to the information.

unit/base Equipment Role Number
_________________________________________________________
Central Air Region HQ Mexico city.
EAM MXCITY

uetaam/ga8 boeing 737-2b7 vip 1
iai arava vip 1
l1329 jetstar8 vip 1
sikorsky uh60l vip 1
GATP as332l-1 super puma vip 4
sa330j super puma vip 3
boeing 737-33a/112 vip 1
boeing 757-225em vip 1

BAM 1 SANTA LUCIA

EA 101 bell 412 ep specops 4
sa330j super puma specops 1
sikorsky uh60l specops 5
sikorsky ch53 yasoor 2000 utilitary 4
ea112 md530f/mg coin 20
ea301 iai arava transport 10
an32b transport 3*
ea302 boeing 727 transport 5
c-130hercules transport 12
ea303 mil mi 26t transport 1*
pzl mil mi 2 utilitary 4*
mil mi 8/17 utilitary 32*
ea401 f-5ef tiger 2 airdefense/strike 10
ea502 c26 metro comunications 2
pc6 turbo porter utilitary 2
scheizer sa237 communications 2

BAM 5 ZAPOPAN

ea105 cessna 182 s utility
ea111 bell 206 instructor 1
esc basico maulemxt school
esc primario becch f33c bonanza school
sf260 school
esc avanzado pc7 turbo trainer advanced training

bam7 pie de la cuesta

ea 102 bell 212 utilitary/coin 24
ea 204 pc7 coin 80*

bam 19 atlagantepec
no units assigen permanentley


AIR REGION NORT HQ CHIHUAHUA.

BAM 3 el ciprés
ea 106 cessna 182 utility

bam 9 la paz
ea 203 pc7 turbotrainer coin

bam10 culiacan
ea 109 cessna 182 utility

bam11 santa gertrudis chihuahua
emaatfa pc7 coin

bam12 tijuana
no unit permanentley assigend

bam 13 chihuahua
ea 110 cessna 182 utility

bam 14 monterrey
ea 108 cessna 182 utility


bam 18 hermosillo
ea 107 cessna 182 utility


SOUTH EATS AIR REGION HQ TUXTLA GUTIERREZ

bam 2 ixtepec
ea402 lockeed t33 training
pc9 coin
bam 4 cozumel
ea 201 pc7
bam 6 tuxtla gutierrez
ea 202 pc7
bam 8 merida
ea 103 bell 212
bam 16 ciudad pemex
bam 17 copalar.
no units assigned permanentley.

[jklv]

jklv Here´s the order of battle on the AF according to the institute of free acces to the information.

unit/base Equipment Role Number
_________________________________________________________
Central Air Region HQ Mexico city.
EAM MXCITY

uetaam/ga8 boeing 737-2b7 vip 1
iai arava vip 1
l1329 jetstar8 vip 1
sikorsky uh60l vip 1
GATP as332l-1 super puma vip 4
sa330j super puma vip 3
boeing 737-33a/112 vip 1
boeing 757-225em vip 1

BAM 1 SANTA LUCIA

EA 101 bell 412 ep specops 4
sa330j super puma specops 1
sikorsky uh60l specops 5
sikorsky ch53 yasoor 2000 utilitary 4
ea112 md530f/mg coin 20
ea301 iai arava transport 10
an32b transport 3*
ea302 boeing 727 transport 5
c-130hercules transport 12
ea303 mil mi 26t transport 1*
pzl mil mi 2 utilitary 4*
mil mi 8/17 utilitary 32*
ea401 f-5ef tiger 2 airdefense/strike 10
ea502 c26 metro comunications 2
pc6 turbo porter utilitary 2
scheizer sa237 communications 2

BAM 5 ZAPOPAN

ea105 cessna 182 s utility
ea111 bell 206 instructor 1
esc basico maulemxt school
esc primario becch f33c bonanza school
sf260 school
esc avanzado pc7 turbo trainer advanced training

bam7 pie de la cuesta

ea 102 bell 212 utilitary/coin 24
ea 204 pc7 coin 80*

bam 19 atlagantepec
no units assigen permanentley


AIR REGION NORT HQ CHIHUAHUA.

BAM 3 el ciprés
ea 106 cessna 182 utility

bam 9 la paz
ea 203 pc7 turbotrainer coin

bam10 culiacan
ea 109 cessna 182 utility

bam11 santa gertrudis chihuahua
emaatfa pc7 coin

bam12 tijuana
no unit permanentley assigend

bam 13 chihuahua
ea 110 cessna 182 utility

bam 14 monterrey
ea 108 cessna 182 utility


bam 18 hermosillo
ea 107 cessna 182 utility


SOUTH EATS AIR REGION HQ TUXTLA GUTIERREZ

bam 2 ixtepec
ea402 lockeed t33 training
pc9 coin
bam 4 cozumel
ea 201 pc7
bam 6 tuxtla gutierrez
ea 202 pc7
bam 8 merida
ea 103 bell 212
bam 16 ciudad pemex
bam 17 copalar.
no units assigned permanentley.

Thans a lot man!!! :hug:

[Panhard_Commander]

god, can hardly wait for 15 de septiembre parade, just 8 days far

[Panhard_Commander]

so this...

http://media.militaryphotos.net/photos/albums/album52/bvg.jpg
is made in mexico?

[Wolfpack]

I forgot, some numbers are not exact, or actualized and most are to be spread between it´s diferent airbases and squadrons, of course there ain´t 88 pc7´s at zapopan for example.

[jklv]

so this...

http://media.militaryphotos.net/photos/albums/album52/bvg.jpg
is made in Mexico?

Yes it is, fully Mexican. Although the IR sensor is usually non mexican but any IR sensor can be fitted. Currently a Mexican IR sensor is being developed.

[jklv]

I forgot, some numbers are not exact, or actualized and most are to be spread between it´s diferent airbases and squadrons, of course there ain´t 88 pc7´s at zapopan for example.
No problem my friend, you have already done much for me ;)

[jackehammond]

i was checking out the l 159 Alca and it looks like a sweet bird to fly it seems it far superior to our fleet of F5 maybe the air force should jump on board and buy them from the czech with these puppys in the air not even su27 can match them. you get six l 159 for the price of one su 27 talk about a good deal and these planes are barely ten years old compared to the su27 being twenty years old.

Dear Member,

An SU-27 could take on ALL 52 L-159 at once and survive while destroying about ten of them. There is no comparison. The L-159 is basically and upgraded trainer where it is fitted with modern fighter electronics and nav/attack gear taken from the early F-16 fighter marks and its wings beefed and wired for extra stores and an engine which gives it a better payload/range ability. It also has some armor and other protection not fitted to modern trainers. Its basic aim its to patrol the nations air space against accidental intrusions by other nations aircraft or non-state (drug smugglers, etc) intrusions of its air space and a light ground attack ability with many modern smart bombs and missiles. And at the same time keeping that nations pilots up to the standard to where they could in a very short time convert to most modern combat aircraft like the F-16, A/F-18, Mirage 2000, etc. Also, because of its modern electronics and weapons wiring, giving that nation's ground crews proficiency in maintaining and operating a modern combat aircraft. And at a fraction of the cost of most modern combat aircraft. It was never intended to be a first line combat aircraft and engage large numbers of first line combat aircraft.

Jack E. Hammond


.

[Wolfpack]

The F5 would very easily ourmonouver the alca, it´s "modern" yes in some ways, but not very manouvrable, for shure not as much as a tiger could be and let´s not forget about the power management in the f-5 is superior to the alca.

I´d think that the F-5´s stand a better chance against the su 27 than the alca and it would be easily knoked out by the flanker. F5 vs su 27 at close range combat humm... that is an interesting duel.
I rememebr some statistics about 2 f-5´s vs one f-15 is nearly 100% of victory towar the tigers in dogfight.

[jackehammond]

mexico should acquire some of the new veichles that are being deployed to iraq with the US there pretty amazing things they can take a lot of punishment

Dear Member,

The MRAP vehicles the US uses in Iraq and Afghanistan (they are actually South African designed vehicles) are extremely expensive. A better solution is what other nations are adopting in large numbers, the German developed DINGO. While not of the same standard of the MRAP used by US forces it is designed to survive mines and other explosive devices at a fraction of the cost of the specialty MRAP vehicles. It is also based on a civilian German truck (Mercedes Benz) and Mexico could probably arrange license manufacture in Mexico.

Jack E. Hammond

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b24/hybenamon/LAND/ARMOR/WHEELED/MISC/dingo2_01.jpg
DINGO II Belgium Army



.

[Sasori]

i was talking about the cougar not the MRAP in particular for mexico. The cougar is more fitted towards the type of terrain that exist in mexico thats why i think the cougar would be more effective in the rugade back roads or brechas in northern mexico.

[jklv]

i was talking about the cougar not the MRAP in particular for mexico. The cougar is more fitted towards the type of terrain that exist in mexico thats why i think the cougar would be more effective in the rugade back roads or brechas in northern mexico.
Isn't the cougar designed after the bear, which was developed by blackwater?
Could you people please post an approximate cost of vehicles you are talking about?, since the words "very expensive" and "cheap" are not objective enough, and we all fall in a point of view discussion more than a realistic and objective discussion. Let us forget opinions and import facts.
About how much money SEDENA has to spend, I saw in an article that 0.5% of Mexico "PIB" is destinated to it.
I believe that soon warfare will be a private industry, as is now in some aspects. How do you think this will affect our Armed Forces?
Is it cheaper?
Is it optimal?
Shall Mexico try to help warfare technologies or security companies to be launched on world market?

[Sasori]

mexico should help develop military technology. Private military companys should not be allowed to take control over military matters. The fact is that a private military company is nothing more than mercenaries or higher guns how ever you want to see it.

In a war its better to have citizen soldiers or proffesional soldiers than mercenaries fight wars. Becauase a mercenary can always choose to quit and go home or switch to the side that pays the most for there skills.

That is why i think private military companys should not be allowed to operate in mexico or take control over military matters. Thats is why mexico should maintain its own military and technology no matter how much the expense is.


Mexico should keep developing the concept of the foot sodier and its technology much like the US army soldier 2020 that is the future of the wars to be fought by small and manuveral armys instead of large ones like in the cold war.

[jklv]

mexico should help develop military technology. Private military companys should not be allowed to take control over military matters. The fact is that a private military company is nothing more than mercenaries or higher guns how ever you want to see it.

In a war its better to have citizen soldiers or proffesional soldiers than mercenaries fight wars. Becauase a mercenary can always choose to quit and go home or switch to the side that pays the most for there skills.

That is why i think private military companys should not be allowed to operate in mexico or take control over military matters. Thats is why mexico should maintain its own military and technology no matter how much the expense is.


Mexico should keep developing the concept of the foot sodier and its technology much like the US army soldier 2020 that is the future of the wars to be fought by small and manuveral armys instead of large ones like in the cold war.
I agree, partially, sorry for not saying it clear. I meant only technologies and security companies, not military itself.
My point of view is the following:
-Acquire guerrilla style tactics. Commandos, etc. Small but very cost effective operations.
-Help defense technologies to be launched in world market, weapons, equipment, etc.
-I disagree calling security contractors mercenaries. Which in my point of view are cheaper as you don't contract them for months and don't have to pay maintenance, food, etc. And you can regulate anything in the contract, and if it is violated there is something that can be done. Remember that the Mexican military will only step on foreign soil if there is a declaration of war. So most of the use of it ill be internal. How ever contractors are not only for security, but also to repair vehicles, and many other jobs so you can keep the military simple. I state this as a fact, my source is documentaries like Shadow Company, Private Warriors, etc.
-Give technology a main position in the military, as it will decrease man cost, and increase military performance.
-As for humanitarian, and DN3 operations I still have not nough resources to post a good POV.

Request:
What type of MRE Mexican army uses?

[Wolfpack]

mexico should help develop military technology. Private military companys should not be allowed to take control over military matters. The fact is that a private military company is nothing more than mercenaries or higher guns how ever you want to see it.

In a war its better to have citizen soldiers or proffesional soldiers than mercenaries fight wars. Becauase a mercenary can always choose to quit and go home or switch to the side that pays the most for there skills.

That is why i think private military companys should not be allowed to operate in mexico or take control over military matters. Thats is why mexico should maintain its own military and technology no matter how much the expense is.


Mexico should keep developing the concept of the foot sodier and its technology much like the US army soldier 2020 that is the future of the wars to be fought by small and manuveral armys instead of large ones like in the cold war.

In comunism yeah of course comrade, but under a free market economy where gov is more interested in buying and administrate rather than being investor like we are now adays, it´s almost impossible that you´ll see that.

The idea is simple, mexicans don´t want theyr money to be thrown away in such things, congres and senate would never let the monstruous sums of money wich such industry may need to be directed. In a nut shell is not the way the gov goes anymore, unless y strictly strategical and necesary; pemex or cfe for example. It´s all ready very very expensive for sedena to have it´s own industry as well to the navy with the shipyards.

The development of a tru huge and powerfull edgie military industry lais in the hand of private industry there ain´t any option, is a true and proved formula that you´ll find every where in the wolrd.


Your are confusing the role of private companies as black water, no one is saying they should be in control, no one would alow it it´s against the law and the constitution in México since there is only to be one army, but in the civil world there can be as many private companies as people want, last time I checked there are thousands of diferent clases.
As a matter of fact not even in the US they are in control of any fighting and comand.

There are 2 diferent concepts/things:

Private security contractors aka mercenaries. wich only focus in matters of security.

Civil runed military industry, wich only focus on developement of military industrial goods.

You are mixim them sasori.

[Sasori]

i never said any thing about the contractors that do maintanace i was just talking about the guys that do security and training those guys are not to be allowed in any way to take over any role the military is destined to do.

The concer over the military technology there is no harm in mexico posesing any type of industry that can build weapons for the defense of the nation in any way.

If we are ever in a desperate war with no one to aid us with weapons and maintance then what is mexico going to do if we lack an industrial bases to repair and maintain our own equipment.

If we depend on private contractors to do everything for us all were going to end up with is a weak and pathedic military.

instead of takeing a step forward for the military in mexico all they would be doing by letting foreigners do every thing for the military is just like depending on the US for every thing we have in the military.

[Shadowstorm]

Isn't the cougar designed after the bear, which was developed by blackwater?
Could you people please post an approximate cost of vehicles you are talking about?, since the words "very expensive" and "cheap" are not objective enough, and we all fall in a point of view discussion more than a realistic and objective discussion. Let us forget opinions and import facts.
About how much money SEDENA has to spend, I saw in an article that 0.5% of Mexico "PIB" is destinated to it.
I believe that soon warfare will be a private industry, as is now in some aspects. How do you think this will affect our Armed Forces?
Is it cheaper?
Is it optimal?
Shall Mexico try to help warfare technologies or security companies to be launched on world market?
The Cougar is in service with U.S Army, U.S Marine Corp, U.S Navy, United Kingdom, Canada and Iraq. These vehicles and others were ordered and used by Blackwater at first, however when these vehicles were surviving from IEDs and other explosives. The military look into it and start buying these vehicles which has been used and survived IEDs and infantry soldiers have been injured, but not killed while in these vehicles. So Mexico should look into getting some of these vehicles for used in urban combat. Even though little expensive than a Humvee, but more survivable in these sitaution. After seeing these pictures posted by Dragunov seeing these drug gangs having tons of weapons, high tech systems and tons of money and bulletproof vehicles like SUVs. I think it's time for the Mexican military and some police units in some Mexican border cities should look into these vehicles and other systems and equipment and also better traning and better pay for soldiers and police officers.

[Sasori]

thats is the true path. Mexico should depend on our own and not on foreing contractors to do or tell us how to fight our own battles. Its time we cut the off the political partys of the money we spend on them just to get into office and spend that money on the military and police by giving them the best equipment and pay we can get a hold of.

There is so much pride can carry a soldier to do for his country until the realitys of every day life come into play such as money.

[jklv]

In communism yeah of course comrade, but under a free market economy where gov is more interested in buying and administrate rather than being investor like we are now a days, it´s almost impossible that you´ll see that.

There are 2 different concepts/things:

Private security contractors aka mercenaries. which only focus in matters of security.

Civil runed military industry, which only focus on development of military industrial goods.

Exactly, thanks for making my point clear ;)

[jklv]

The Cougar is in service with U.S Army, U.S Marine Corp, U.S Navy, United Kingdom, Canada and Iraq. These vehicles and others were ordered and used by Blackwater at first, however when these vehicles were surviving from IEDs and other explosives. The military look into it and start buying these vehicles which has been used and survived IEDs and infantry soldiers have been injured, but not killed while in these vehicles. So Mexico should look into getting some of these vehicles for used in urban combat. Even though little expensive than a Humvee, but more survivable in these sitaution. After seeing these pictures posted by Dragunov seeing these drug gangs having tons of weapons, high tech systems and tons of money and bulletproof vehicles like SUVs. I think it's time for the Mexican military and some police units in some Mexican border cities should look into these vehicles and other systems and equipment and also better traning and better pay for soldiers and police officers.

I know organized crime have powerful weapons, but since they don't have air superiority yet, why don't use predator like tactics?, which are more effective, cheaper, less risky, etc. It is only about developing the ideal UAV. Even creating a special purpuse TV guided or laser guided missile, which would be made for urban areas and as less collateral or residual damage as possible. So here is the deal, what is your opinion guys? UAV tactics or buy Cougars, and train our troops to use them as develop tactics for its proper use?
I vote for the UAV doctrine.

[jklv]

thats is the true path. Mexico should depend on our own and not on foreing contractors to do or tell us how to fight our own battles. Its time we cut the off the political partys of the money we spend on them just to get into office and spend that money on the military and police by giving them the best equipment and pay we can get a hold of.

There is so much pride can carry a soldier to do for his country until the realitys of every day life come into play such as money.
I did not mean foreign contractors xD. Will make my post more clear to avoid misunderstandings =D

[Sasori]

what is it with using cheap ineffective weapons and tactics the only way to finally stamp out organized crime is not with a fly swatter but with a hammer. The more force we use against them the more there likely to crumble into dust and warn others of not messing with mexico security. Dont you care if mexico is put in such a bad state of security becuase of some punk wanna be bad mojo that think they can buy there way into power like pablo escobar in colobia.

we must not let these happen to mexico we need to crush them now when we still have the opportunity to win once and for all.

Crime will always exciste in one form or another but not like the narcos do now.

[jklv]

what is it with using cheap ineffective weapons and tactics the only way to finally stamp out organized crime is not with a fly swatter but with a hammer. The more force we use against them the more there likely to crumble into dust and warn others of not messing with mexico security. Dont you care if mexico is put in such a bad state of security becuase of some punk wanna be bad mojo that think they can buy there way into power like pablo escobar in colobia.

we must not let these happen to mexico we need to crush them now when we still have the opportunity to win once and for all.

Crime will always exciste in one form or another but not like the narcos do now.
I did not understand your post. You mean the UAV or the Cougars?
As I have read, a UAV is more effective than a Humvee or any patrolling armored vehicle. Why? The enemy cannot reach it! Even if the buy high performance SAM and take one down there will be no lives lost. Yeah the cougar is a great vehicle, but even with that the crew still have been injured. The UAV (future one) has missiles and very much field of view, is faster, can fly longer distances, has more firepower than a cougar. Even it's maintenance is lower cost.

[Shadowstorm]

I know organized crime have powerful weapons, but since they don't have air superiority yet, why don't use predator like tactics?, which are more effective, cheaper, less risky, etc. It is only about developing the ideal UAV. Even creating a special purpuse TV guided or laser guided missile, which would be made for urban areas and as less collateral or residual damage as possible. So here is the deal, what is your opinion guys? UAV tactics or buy Cougars, and train our troops to use them as develop tactics for its proper use?
I vote for the UAV doctrine.
Yeah I agree, but I believe using UAVs and ground personnal like special forces and their equipment should work together to defeat these threats and keep casualties level very low.

[Sasori]

like stormshadow said its better if they work together and a fighter or airplane is good for monitoring or attacking from the air but they can never hold territory like armored veichles and troops on the ground. all the ideas we discuss here are good and are probably being used by the military of mexico there proffesionals.

[Shadowstorm]

Everybody's idea is a good idea. The only system that will work will have to work together.

[jklv]

The only system that will work will have to work together.
Exactly, as I stated before acquiring guerrilla tactics (US army is evaluating this one as a very potential options) with commandos, etc. Giving them all the technology available. And UAV for strategic attacks. Therefore achievable elimination of organized ****...I mean crime. Sorry for my bad words. Although holding ground I do not believe is that important, we are not fighting that kind of war. Is against narcs, and I am talking about current treats not imaginary treats like a Venezuelan invasion or something like that. As predators have been proved to be the most effective way of eliminating individual targets in high density urban areas. Come on guys, the future warfare is unmanned, we shall make scientific and technological advances until the point of leaving the risky work to unmanned weapons systems(This may sound very aggressive to the old fashioned. But come on guys we have the opportunity of skipping one stair, avoid it's costs and jump to the next step, unmanned warfare). As for public security the federal police is OK I believe, some upgrades in weapons and strategies, low crime type like robbing are mainly caused by unfunctionality in family, humanity issues this are, therefore the best way to fix this is by actions like young people web work, humanity development(Desarrollo humano, nothing related to medicine or biology, more about ethic and moral), etc. The main treat we should all be aware is organized crime.

PS: If someone disagrees please help understand your point of view without flaming.

[Sasori]

im not against going with the new technology in fact that would be the best step for mexico to jump ahead of the pack and get in the game with unmanned weapons systems in the air land and sea. But there is no harm in upgrading apc and infantry weapons to a good standart.

one thing mexico needs is a good communications network and ground support veichles liked armored humbees dont really cost much and are good in fighting narcos and for civil defense and natural disaster relief.

one more thing if we have an impressive well funded military kids will take pride in the fact that mexico is a great country were we can live in peace and have oppoutunity to live in a modern country with our freedoms there they will gain a good concept of honor and pride in what they are.

[jklv]

im not against going with the new technology in fact that would be the best step for mexico to jump ahead of the pack and get in the game with unmanned weapons systems in the air land and sea. But there is no harm in upgrading apc and infantry weapons to a good standart.

one thing mexico needs is a good communications network and ground support veichles liked armored humbees dont really cost much and are good in fighting narcos and for civil defense and natural disaster relief.

one more thing if we have an impressive well funded military kids will take pride in the fact that mexico is a great country were we can live in peace and have oppoutunity to live in a modern country with our freedoms there they will gain a good concept of honor and pride in what they are.
It is not actually harm, but why fix something that ain't broken? There are more than 5,000 Humvees in service, more are being acquired. So why waste money on it?p-)

[gatomalo]

In comunism yeah of course comrade, but under a free market economy where gov is more interested in buying and administrate rather than being investor like we are now adays, it´s almost impossible that you´ll see that.

The idea is simple, mexicans don´t want theyr money to be thrown away in such things, congres and senate would never let the monstruous sums of money wich such industry may need to be directed. In a nut shell is not the way the gov goes anymore, unless y strictly strategical and necesary; pemex or cfe for example. It´s all ready very very expensive for sedena to have it´s own industry as well to the navy with the shipyards.

The development of a tru huge and powerfull edgie military industry lais in the hand of private industry there ain´t any option, is a true and proved formula that you´ll find every where in the wolrd.


Your are confusing the role of private companies as black water, no one is saying they should be in control, no one would alow it it´s against the law and the constitution in México since there is only to be one army, but in the civil world there can be as many private companies as people want, last time I checked there are thousands of diferent clases.
As a matter of fact not even in the US they are in control of any fighting and comand.

There are 2 diferent concepts/things:

Private security contractors aka mercenaries. wich only focus in matters of security.

Civil runed military industry, wich only focus on developement of military industrial goods.

You are mixim them sasori.

The problem that I see with this is that even in a country like the US that has all of the entrepreneurial spirit that anyone could imagine, military procurement programs are all subsidised by the government. A contract is issued for the R&D, test samples, evaluation and eventually production. There is no reason that cant be done in Mexico. And it wouldnt be a waste of money. It would allow for growth in the private sector and give us a chance to develop even future examples of exportable material. It doesnt have to be for military use either, it can be commercial such as airliners. Just because thats not the way the government wants to do it, doesnt make it the wrong way!

As for PMC's, they initially operated independently of the US military in Iraq. It wasnt until after the death and desecreation of two Blackwater operatives that led to the siege of Felluja, that they had to begin coordinating their movements with the US military. But they were still independent of them. And they planned their own missions and did their own fighting if necessary.

The issue with PMC's doing this type of work is one of liability. Who is ultimatly responsible for their actions and who is actually in control. In a country like the US where it is illegal for the military to get involved in civilian police matters, it becomes even more difficult. I know that there were alot of eyebrows raised and questions asked when it was discovered thet Blackwater was contracted during the Katrina relief efforts to provide law enforcement support, and not of the passive kind either. Where do you draw the line with PMC's?


what is it with using cheap ineffective weapons and tactics the only way to finally stamp out organized crime is not with a fly swatter but with a hammer. The more force we use against them the more there likely to crumble into dust and warn others of not messing with mexico security. Dont you care if mexico is put in such a bad state of security becuase of some punk wanna be bad mojo that think they can buy there way into power like pablo escobar in colobia.

we must not let these happen to mexico we need to crush them now when we still have the opportunity to win once and for all.

Crime will always exciste in one form or another but not like the narcos do now.

First, Im gonna have to disagree with you on one very important thing. Dont think that Pablo Escobar and people like him are "punk wanna be bad mojo's." These people are ruthless and down right evil. They earn their reputation the hard way and should not be taken lightly. That being said, you have to remember that these are still criminals! They are not an enemy combatant and as much as governments may like to call it "the war on drugs" its not a combat scenario. Alot of the crimes that these people commit are on each other and the danger they pose on civilians, other than the crap they sell, is one of collateral damage. If this was an actual war, that would be tolarable. Mexico's resource allocation to fight these criminals needs to be better monitored to ensure a proper dsibursement of funds and to minimize corruption. That should be resolved before we send Hellfire toting Predators to Acapulco to blow up a narco truck.

[jklv]

Here is the fact sheet of the predator: http://www.af.mil/factsheets/factsheet.asp?fsID=122
Cost per system is 40 million USD, the whole system which is 4 predator UAVs, a GCS and more than 55 people in maintenance and operation on 24hr.
Now this is for USA standards, remember Mexican UAV are set to be low cost and very effective. Maybe we can expect a whole system in less than 10 million USD.

[Wolfpack]

one thing mexico needs is a good communications network and ground support veichles liked armored humbees dont really cost much and are good in fighting narcos and for civil defense and natural disaster relief.

We have an excelent comunications network. Let me ask you why would we need armoured humvees? this is not Basra or Tikrit, people don´t ambush military humvees, though there are esporadic atacks, there is no general reaosn to spend millions of dollars in upgrade what doesn´t need to be up armoured.

To eb honest I can see how an uparmoured humvee will help in disaster relief, even more i´d think it´s againt the lightnes of the vehicle in situations were heavines is the last thing you need.


one more thing if we have an impressive well funded military kids will take pride in the fact that mexico is a great country were we can live in peace and have oppoutunity to live in a modern country with our freedoms there they will gain a good concept of honor and pride in what they are.

Kids don´t need what you call an "impresive army " to get pride of theyr country, nor all the kids must like the army, and finally the issue of being pride of the country is related to individual social, educational and economical conditions, nothing about the "coolnes" of the army.

Another point we live in peace, yes narc is a problem, but take it easy, not living in peace is what people have in Irak or Darfur. We have a problem with crime, don´t overdimention it.

One final question? when was the last time you came over to Mexico? I think you have a complete miss judgemnt of what the country is. Really. It seem like you speak about colombia, Irak, not Mexico.

[Sasori]

first of i have been to iraq and i grew up in the poor parts of mexico so i know both sides of the story i may not be a high and up chilango that know everything in the world.

second it cost only fifty thousand dollars to completly armor up a humbee to take a twenty pound anti tank mine and keep the occupants safe.
what is it with all of you dont you value the lives of mexican soldiers is money that important to you.

third if we dont prepare for the worst now when we have peace the narcos are a great threat to mexico to the point were it could be like colombia with the narcos and insurgents working together.

fourth i have nothing but respect for the work the military does in mexico you dont know squat if you have never been in a military operation so dont judge the narco situation as a regular problem. And poor kids tend to look at people with power for guidance either it be a narco or a police man.

[Shadowstorm]

Are you a soldier, because I did'nt know that.

[Sasori]

de donde cres que hagare esta foto para mi avatar la tome el desierto como un saludo para mis familiares en mexico y en texas.

por eso siempre pongo la idea de los apcs para mexico por que verdaera mente te salvan la vida mas que esos inutiles amx 13 y los lynx que mexico recivio de canada.

pero los centauros los e visto en basra cuando los italianos estaban en 2005 por eso los propuse para el uso en mexico.

[Shadowstorm]

first of i have been to iraq and i grew up in the poor parts of mexico so i know both sides of the story i may not be a high and up chilango that know everything in the world.

second it cost only fifty thousand dollars to completly armor up a humbee to take a twenty pound anti tank mine and keep the occupants safe.
what is it with all of you dont you value the lives of mexican soldiers is money that important to you.

third if we dont prepare for the worst now when we have peace the narcos are a great threat to mexico to the point were it could be like colombia with the narcos and insurgents working together.

fourth i have nothing but respect for the work the military does in mexico you dont know squat if you have never been in a military operation so dont judge the narco situation as a regular problem. And poor kids tend to look at people with power for guidance either it be a narco or a police man.
Yeah I agree, because some people I talk to from Mexico said; they don't want Mexico to become like a Colombia or El Salvador.

[jklv]

Another point we live in peace, yes narc is a problem, but take it easy, not living in peace is what people have in Irak or Darfur. We have a problem with crime, don´t overdimention it.

Wolfpack I have to disagree with you in this part, Kidnaps are the greatest fear here in Tijuana, and believe it is urgent to stop this. I know people, working people who has earned their money hardworking, since I was a little kid, I saw their economics grow, and all hard earned, not stealing, all legitimate. Than these pieces of crap who people call kidnappers came and just kidnapped, asked for the money, destroyed the family, it's dreams, and killed the kidnapped person. And it is not only one family, it has happened and keeps happening a lot! And no it does not happen only to rich people, as losng as you have a microempresa like a mini market, a restaurant, etc. You are in danger, close friends have had their parents kidnapped, specially male ones. This is painful, you know what is even painful? Living with the fear, seeing how many of young guys listen to corridos that hail "comando negro" "los zetas", and many more of this pieces of ****. Believe me, kidnaps are a big problem in Tijuana. I do not know about other cities but here is fu***d up. I hope that after these PRI administration ends kidnaps rate reduces.

[Sasori]

were from the north we now the story we face this crap all the time the zetas son una bola de maricas they think because they have guns they can do what they want. I dont think so as soon as i am free from my duties up here im coming home and doing what i do best take the trash out and i have to thank uncle sam for what i have learned.

[Shadowstorm]

And Nuveo Laredo is a war zone in which a lot of people got killed, kidnapped and injured, because of the violence.

[Sasori]

the true problem for mexico as a country is mexico city its self and all the burocrats that make all the laws and dont solve the problems that face all of mexico. They sit idlely while they fill there pockets with all our countrys money. So i say forget them and lets put and end to the narcos and all those dumb narco corridos by not buying that music and stopping them how ever anyone can.

but we should not get the civilian population involved in any way if we know any thing about narcos whearbouts or what ever we should tell the army right away.

[Shadowstorm]

Yeah, I know. Hey Sasori which branch of military service you serve in.

[Ordie]

it cost only fifty thousand dollars to completly armor up a humbee.

For that amount, I know a good shop in Tijuana who would up-armor add in some nice upholstery, stereo and paint job for a fraction of the cost.

[Wolfpack]

I´m not saying that the problem in the north is a minor one ok, I said you overdimention it to make it look like a real war, wich is not what we have. Therfore still I think is no reason at all to uparmor humvees, cause no one is trhowing granades at them, no rpg´s, theyre not facing snipers or roadside bombs, etc etc. What we have now is enough to deal with. Is far to expensive for nor being needed.

Now belive me narc ain´t gonna be beaten, ever, for a number of reasons, at least not by the open confrontation way. If that was the solution, problem would have been solved 40 years ago, why?

1 the US needs drugs, and it´s a buissnes for them
2 Mexico needs to sel drugs to the us, its´buissnes for us
3 narc is embeded within society, therefore it´s undestructible, and imortal as long as society exists
4 Mexican governament and narc are both needed, and both know they need eachother to benefit. Gov has always aloud a certain coexistatence and supports/protects factions to keep them under control and narc does a reciprocal help in the buissnes, and common crime.

Mexican army is never going to be capable of destroying narc completley, no one will ever be capable of doing such thing, This is a matter wich is meant to be dealt politically, by bargaining with them. By setting things right. Fox never did anything thats why the hosue went crazy, Calderon is going in other direction, supporting the old ways supporting and protectin some narcs, and nailing those out of the loop. Things will eventually start to calm down.

Then I don´t know that idea of yours the apc´s and ifv we have are rareley involved in the anti narc ops, one again, it looks like you talk about some different country. And please, stop with that inferiority complex and victim like line about chilangos trying to undestrand your conditions ok? its just not true, it´s imature and childish. A lot, and I do mean A LOT OF people from the north of the country is involved in the governament in real high places. Come with something else.

[gatomalo]

Lets see if we can get this back on track. Hope these arent repost.

[Wolfpack]

I love the hawkeye in those colors. I´m worried, cause they were supposed to be allready here at santa lucia, for the parade practices. And only recently they started to fly again, they were grounded like 5 or 6 months.

[gatomalo]

I love the hawkeye in those colors. I´m worried, cause they were supposed to be allready here at santa lucia, for the parade practices. And only recently they started to fly again, they were grounded like 5 or 6 months.


why were they grounded?

[Wolfpack]

no maintenance.

[GAFES]

THE ARMED FORCES Vs DRUG CARTELS This is War.

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[GAFES]

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[GAFES]

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[GAFES]

Members of the Special Forces Battalions intercepted a drug shipment.

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[Wolfpack]

The concept of war is used very lightly this days. I love how things hapen here in Mexico, for example the so calle dmost wanted man in the country "el chapo" married a few day ago and made sucha display of power really propper of "war" The sad true is that he may be protected by the governament, and he is the one getting the house in order.

This is an account of chapo´s love goofin arround, it´s juts stupid to deny or to belive that the governament intelligence would never get to know about it, and that any police or military response team couldn´t be there.


03/09/2007 | Terra.-MEXICO.- El que se supone es el narcotraficante mexicano más perseguido, tanto por el Ejército y las corporaciones policíacas nacionales como por las agencias de Estados Unidos, Joaquín El Chapo Guzmán Loera anda libre y enamorado.



De acuerdo con información de la revista Proceso, el lunes 2 de julio pasado, el famoso narcotraficante se casó en La Angostura, municipio de las Canelas, Durango.

Su nueva esposa, de 18 años de edad, se llama Emma Coronel Aispuro.

Prófugo desde el 19 de enero de 2001, cuando escapó del penal federal de Puente Grande, Jalisco, El Chapo Guzmán se estableció en La Angostura a finales del año pasado.

Luego conoció a Emma, de tez blanca, cuerpo bien delineado y estatura de 1.70.

En su parte pública, detalla Proceso, la peculiar historia de amor comenzó el 20 de noviembre del año pasado: ese día el ayuntamiento convocó a todas las jovencitas al concurso para elegir a la reina de la Gran Feria del Café y la Guayaba 2007.

Una de las postulaciones provocó sorpresa: Emma, una muchacha del lejano caserío de La Angostura, competiría con Baudelia Ayala Coronel, de El Ranchito; Rosa Sandoval Avitia, de la cabecera; Alma Díaz Rodríguez, de Zapotes; y Nancy Hererra Vizcarra, de Mesa de Guadalupe.

A partir de entonces las cinco candidatas organizaron actividades para ganar simpatizantes. Emma invitó a cuanta gente pudo al gran baile que haría el 6 de enero. Sobre este acontecimiento, el periódico local El Correo de la Montaña, de mayo pasado, dijo que le dio a Emma una "morbo popularidad", una fama basada en las expectativas de que El Chapo asistiera. Ya corrían rumores -que luego resultaron ser noticias- sobre la boda.

Llegó el Día de Reyes. A las 11 de la mañana unas 200 motonetas con asientos para dos personas llegaron a Canelas. A bordo de ellas, hombres con vestimenta y pasamontañas negros, con metralletas colgadas del hombro y pistolas de grueso calibre en los cinturones.

Poco a poco se distribuyeron en las 10 entradas del pueblo, incluyendo las de herradura (a caballo). Se apostaron en todas las calles.

Luego arribaron a la pista de aterrizaje, en avionetas de cinco plazas, los integrantes del grupo musical Los Canelos de Durango, con la misión de amenizar el baile. Pero también iban armados: presumían sus pistolas con cachas de oro.

Horas más tarde, a las 16:30, llegaron seis avionetas de ala fija. El Chapo bajó de una de ellas.

Vestía pantalón de mezclilla, chamarra, cachucha y tenis de piel negra. Éstos tenían una raya blanca. Como si fuera parte de su vestuario, en el pecho llevaba cruzado un fusil de asalto AK-47 cuerno de chivo y en la cintura una pistola que hacía juego con la ropa.

La orgullosa joven de La Angostura paseaba por la plaza mezclándose con la gente y debidamente cuidada.

Los hombres de su galán le abrían paso cuando éste quería bailar. La pareja, como dice su canción, se veía feliz.

Ahí estaban, por supuesto, los padres de Emma: Blanca Estela Aispuro Aispuro e Inés Coronel Barrera. En La Angostura, Inés se dedica oficialmente a la ganadería, aunque quienes lo conocen saben que realmente su fuerte es la siembra de marihuana y amapola.

Emma anunció ese día su matrimonio y, durante el bailongo, Coronel Barrera no disimuló su alegría por emparentar con un jefe tan poderoso.

Había pocas pero notorias personas. Algunos asistentes dicen haber reconocido al exsubprocurador de Justicia de Sinaloa, Alfredo Higuera Bernal, y al presidente municipal de Canelas, Francisco Cárdenas Gamboa, de extracción panista, quien concluyó su encargo el 31 de agosto y cuya presencia generó dos versiones: que fue forzado a asistir o bien, que es un integrante más de la organización de El Chapo.

Los objetivos del baile se cumplieron: Emma quedó a la cabeza del concurso para reina de la Feria del Café y la Guayaba 2007 y Joaquín Guzmán afianzó su relación con ella.

La coronación se consumó el 23 de febrero, día de la inauguración de la feria. Varios canelenses dicen que El Chapo estaba presente mientras Emma recorría las calles del pueblo. Casualmente dos días antes, el 21 de febrero, se había retirado el destacamento del Ejército.

El de Emma I es el reinado más corto en la historia de la feria. Por tradición, si la reina se casa es sustituida por la princesa.

Your so called war is nothing more than a cartel´s reacomodation, and the governament acting as if doing something. Calderon needs this guy, his power and influence to get the house in order.

uhh such a war isn´t it?

[GAFES]

The CAPTURE OF '' EL CRIS 8-9'' IN TIJUANA. Member of the Arellano Cartel.

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[jklv]

Gafes! thanks a lot for the pictures! you are the man ;)

[gatomalo]

Does anyone know how many law enforcement officers have died over the past two years fighting the narco's?

[GAFES]

Does anyone know how many law enforcement officers have died over the past two years fighting the narco's?

I would say close to the thousand. Almost everyday police officers get killed by drug cartel's, good and bad.

[Sasori]

so is the drug war a real war or just a little scuffle in any ones opinion according to what the all knowing chilaquile of the air force says about it not being a real war.

[GAFES]

so is the drug war a real war or just a little scuffle in any ones opinion according to what the all knowing chilaquile of the air force says about it not being a real war.

Thousands are getting killed. Don't pay attention to that hippie.

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http://img467.imageshack.us/img467/7154/008n1pol1ad8.jpg
http://img240.imageshack.us/img240/1788/patrullasatacadaszetaspd0.jpg
http://img183.imageshack.us/img183/2766/portada2dh3.jpg
http://img153.imageshack.us/img153/3288/lea5160207xp7.jpg

[Sasori]

maybe we should give him a squadron of t 33 so he can reminase and appreciate there role in our national history.

[Shadowstorm]

See, that's why Mexico should get armoured vehicles.

[gatomalo]

I would say close to the thousand. Almost everyday police officers get killed by drug cartel's, good and bad.


Wow...that is alot of slain officers. Does any one keep track of how they died?

[Felix U. Gómez]

I´m not saying that the problem in the north is a minor one ok, I said you overdimention it to make it look like a real war, wich is not what we have. Therfore still I think is no reason at all to uparmor humvees, cause no one is trhowing granades at them, no rpg´s, theyre not facing snipers or roadside bombs, etc etc. What we have now is enough to deal with. Is far to expensive for nor being needed.

Now belive me narc ain´t gonna be beaten, ever, for a number of reasons, at least not by the open confrontation way. If that was the solution, problem would have been solved 40 years ago, why?

1 the US needs drugs, and it´s a buissnes for them
2 Mexico needs to sel drugs to the us, its´buissnes for us
3 narc is embeded within society, therefore it´s undestructible, and imortal as long as society exists
4 Mexican governament and narc are both needed, and both know they need eachother to benefit. Gov has always aloud a certain coexistatence and supports/protects factions to keep them under control and narc does a reciprocal help in the buissnes, and common crime.

Mexican army is never going to be capable of destroying narc completley, no one will ever be capable of doing such thing, This is a matter wich is meant to be dealt politically, by bargaining with them. By setting things right. Fox never did anything thats why the hosue went crazy, Calderon is going in other direction, supporting the old ways supporting and protectin some narcs, and nailing those out of the loop. Things will eventually start to calm down.

Then I don´t know that idea of yours the apc´s and ifv we have are rareley involved in the anti narc ops, one again, it looks like you talk about some different country. And please, stop with that inferiority complex and victim like line about chilangos trying to undestrand your conditions ok? its just not true, it´s imature and childish. A lot, and I do mean A LOT OF people from the north of the country is involved in the governament in real high places. Come with something else.

Your post says so many dumb things that I don't know where to start.

1) The problem is not just only in the north, as you say, it is in the south (remember the recent incidents in Tabasco, where a General got ambushed and a police station got shot up?). How about Michoacan, and Guerrero, where up until Calderón got into the picture Acapulco was starting to become like the Old West, and the tourism was beginning to fall? How about Mexico City, with its never ending stream of violence? So, are those places in the north? I think you need some geography lessons.

2) About not getting better armored vehicles, because currently "no one is throwing grenades at them, no rpg's". That is becoming your typical trademark. Just to oppose whatever anyone else says because of course "you know better than the rest of us". Sasori is absolutely right on this one, when he asks "aren't Mexican soldiers' lives worth the investment in protection?" No, of course you would think not, you would only think of improving protection after the fact, right? As we say in Mexico, "ya ahogado el niño, tapen el pozo". You are probably holding off buying auto insurance until after you have an accident, right? Nomás no rebuznas porque...

3) "Mexico needs to needs to sel drugs to the us, its buisness for us". Uta madre!!! What a stupid thing to say!!! What a monstrosity to believe!!! As I said, you are a priista, because only a priista would have such a perverted mentality. Like I told you, your philosophy, and up to a certain point, that of many chilangos, is that "one must screw everyone, before someone screws you". That is why we are how we are. Because of people that think like you. You justify perverse mentalities and actions with your beliefs, and of course those of us that think that its immoral, must be naive children for you.

4) "Mexican governament and narc are both needed, and both know they need eachother to benefit." How dare you try to equate the policies of the Priista administrations to those of the current administration and the past one. I would not trust you as far as I could throw you, but for Calderón, I would put my hands in the fire. The guy is honest, and he is doing his best. The violence actually started increasing with Fox, when he started actually catching and arresting the heads of the cartels. He did capture more heads of drug cartels than probably the past four pri governments combined (Zedillo, Salinas, De La Madrid, and López Portillo). It was only natural that the cartels respond with violence (the only thing they know how to do) at the prospect of being hunted for real. Calderón came along and greatly increased the pressure on them to the level that US authorities report that there is a decrease in the drugs that are available on the streets of the US. But, as a priista, you think that everybody must be as corrupt as, well, priistas.

5) Your observation that Fox never negotiated with the narcs is correct, but the claim that Calderón is negotiating with them is baseless, dumb and offensive. You do sound like a chilango when you make statements like that. I suppose that part of his negotiations with drug dealers is deporting them in record numbers (put the last five pri governments together and they never sent as many (those guys were really in cahoots with the narcs)). Another part is decomissioning money and drugs from them in record numbers right? Go tell that borrego to some one else.

6) About the chilango thing. It is not an inferiority complex mate. I probably live better than you, but I will tell you nothing about my family or income or anything cause I'm not a presumido. Northerners and southerners for that matter have always had a very justified resentment against those from the center because since priista times the center (chilangoland) always got a huge chunck of our tax pesos and returned a very small part of them to us. UNAM, for example, up to a few years ago received something like 60-65% of the federal money going into public universities. When a PAN deputy mentioned that fact they (politicians and public personalities of the center) almost wanted to eat the guy alive for daring to criticize "the University of all Mexicans" (more like of all chilangos). We pay $7.00 pesos to get on a rickety old bus while chilangos build subways at $70,000,000 (USD) per kilometer (that is a figure from the 80's), charge $1 peso to use it (it is subsidized). The list of inequalities and injustices goes on and on, and meanwhile the DF accumulates a huge debt that the rest of us will end up paying. Add to that the chilango attitude especially when they leave DF and come up north. They act like they know it all, like they own the country, like everyone thinks like them, and they still think that we like them. No, my friend, it is not an inferiority complex, do not insult us. It is something very old and very deep. I could go on and on about this if you wish.

[Felix U. Gómez]

Here's some food for thought:

Big increase seen in cost of illegal drugs

By Anna Cearley
UNION-TRIBUNE STAFF WRITER
September 4, 2007
The price of certain illegal drugs has soared as law enforcement on both sides of the border target traffickers and Mexican drug cartels fight each other for control of the trade.
http://www.signonsandiego.com/images/t.gif
“You start hearing in the street about things being more expensive and harder to get, and that the stuff they get isn't that good,” said Mike Mendez, a narcotics detective with the San Diego Police Department. The Office of National Drug Control Policy said in July that it had tracked a large spike in cocaine prices: They went up at least 67 percent in 12 U.S. cities, including Los Angeles and New York City, over the past six months. San Diego wasn't included in that study.
Other U.S. law enforcement officials say methamphetamine prices also have gone up recently in areas such as Los Angeles and San Diego.
Nobody is ready to declare victory in the war on drugs, but some law enforcement officials say the high prices could be an indication that there are serious disruptions in the drug pipeline through Mexico. Experts say that price fluctuations are not unusual in the illegal drug market.
The price increases may be the result of local and international setbacks against traffickers, some experts say. In March, for example, the U.S. Coast Guard seized 20 tons of cocaine from a ship off Panama's Pacific Coast.
Others say further explanations may be just south of San Diego, where drug cartels are battling each other and the Mexican federal government has stepped up its offensive against traffickers such as the Arellano Félix cartel. Mexican authorities also dealt a setback to methamphetamine manufacturers this year in an investigation into the source of precursor chemicals from China that resulted in a huge bust in Mexico City.
The price increases apparently are affecting the more expensive drugs manufactured in or transported through Mexico. Marijuana prices haven't shown a change, presumably because it is available from numerous sources.
Some drug experts say the data should be treated with caution. The Office of National Drug Control Policy announced similar developments with cocaine in 2005, but a drop in prices followed, according to an April study by the Washington Office on Latin America, a think tank.
Others say this year's price increases for cocaine and methamphetamine are especially unusual because they happened so quickly.
“We are seeing a decrease in supplies that's driving the wholesale price,” said Rudy Lovio, a criminal-intelligence specialist with the California Department of Justice's Los Angeles County Regional Criminal Information Clearinghouse.
In three months, Lovio said, bulk quantities of methamphetamine rose to roughly $15,000 a pound from about $12,000 when bought wholesale from distributors. Cocaine – which has been roughly $14,000 a pound for years – went up to as much as $17,000 in the Los Angeles area, he said.
Lovio didn't know why his department's statistics indicate less of an increase than the 67 percent rise noted in the Drug Control Policy study, which included his data as well as that of other reporting law enforcement groups.

San Diego prices

Tracking drug prices isn't a precise science. It can vary according to geography, with prices differing in areas that are as little as 30 miles apart. When law enforcement cracks down on regional distributors, certain supply chains are affected while others are not. This means price increases may not register across the board. Some cities publish findings less frequently than others. The San Diego Law Enforcement Coordination Center, a multiagency organization that analyzes cases and shares data, released its annual figures in April, when some drug experts say the prices first started rising.
A pound of methamphetamine, which was selling for $5,000 to $10,000 last year, cost as much as $12,500 in April, according to the San Diego center. But investigators with Immigration and Customs Enforcement say not-yet-released reports indicate the price rose even more – to between $14,000 and $16,000 – since July.
Dan Simmons, a spokesman with the San Diego office of the U.S. Drug Enforcement Administration, said his office would need to analyze such figures closely before making a definitive statement.
Simmons said the price of methamphetamine has been rising steadily over the years as tougher regulations make it harder to obtain the material used to manufacture it.
Drug confiscations have been on the rise along California's U.S.-Mexico border since 2003, said Vince Bond, spokesman for U.S. Customs and Border Protection.
But immigration enforcement investigators said they started to notice in recent months that methamphetamine seizures declined significantly across the southwest border, though not in California. Analysts are studying the trend, as well as a similar one with cocaine, said Immigration and Customs Enforcement spokeswoman Lauren Mack. No statistics are being released at this time, Mack said.
Some investigators say methamphetamine production may have plummeted after Mexican authorities confiscated $207 million in the house of Chinese-Mexican businessman Zhenli Ye Gon. U.S. authorities called the March operation in Mexico City the largest seizure of money in the history of drug enforcement.
“It's the first time we've seen a price increase like this for methamphetamine, and it's believed to be related to the fact that the supply has gone down from Mexico,” Mack said.

Mexico's moves

Lovio and others also point to a prolonged campaign by the Mexican government against drug cartels, which finally may be affecting the supply of drugs as it creates upheavals in the drug world. In the Tijuana region, the Arellano Félix cartel is being challenged by rivals such as suspected traffickers Joaquín Guzmán and Ismael Zambada.
The Arellanos' grip has weakened after a series of arrests and killings of their top members.
A man connected to the drug trade in Tijuana, who declined to have his name published because he is involved in illegal activities, said the chaos has affected the flow of more-profitable drugs through Tijuana. He said the Arellanos are aggressively pursuing people who don't pay them, and some cautious traffickers are curbing their activities while waiting for new drug alliances to consolidate with Arellano rivals.
Luis Javier Algorri Franco, Tijuana's secretary of public security, said various Mexican law enforcement agencies have shared anecdotal observations of some drug price increases.
“But there is no study that says that this is indeed taking place,” he said.
Michael Vigil, a former Drug Enforcement Administration special agent who oversaw the San Diego office, said conflict between cartels can impact the supply chain temporarily. Vigil said he doesn't believe drug groups would hoard drugs intentionally as a way of driving up profits.
“These are obviously profit-making enterprises and if they don't move the merchandise, then they falter like any corporation,” he said.
Jennifer de Vallance, press secretary for the Office of National Drug Control Policy, said factors contributing to the price increases could include greater enforcement in Mexico, more seizures of cocaine from Colombia, a growth in cocaine use in Europe, and violence among Mexican drug groups.
“It's unclear how long the trend will last, so the data must be interpreted with caution,” de Vallance said.



http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/mexico/20070904-9999-1n4prices.html

That's some negotiations with the narcs huh?

[Shadowstorm]

Yeah I was surprise when Wolfpack saying that stuff.

[Wolfpack]

Beacuse is true, some people simply can´t manage the true like gafes or sasori they are like race horses with a narrow sight and a huge ignorance about the country and it´s political condition, they just go in with personal insults, cause they don´t bother to think and thats the only way to let theyr frustration go since they can´t reason propperly, they just keep thinking that insulting me and always being antagonic are going to acomplish anything.

Well I say If they think this is a war.. well, let them think so, it´s just witty.

[gatomalo]

I would say close to the thousand. Almost everyday police officers get killed by drug cartel's, good and bad.

I wonder why Jose Arturo Yanez, a member of the Professional Police Training Institue in Mexico City, would have been quoted in May of this year as saying that around 200 police officers have been killed in the past 16 months? That rate is not much higher than the US, where and average of around 120 to 160 officers die in the line of duty annually.

[Sasori]

at least i can spell properly wolfpack there for i have a better understanding about a real war is. Have you ever been in a real shoot out with narcos yourself. How unmidigatenly are you do you not really understand the suffering people are under becuase of the narcos and kidnappers.

So if you dont like the way we think and write our post then dont read them it as simple as that. I dont really concer my self with what you write uncorrectly against me or any one.

[GAFES]

Beacuse is true, some people simply can´t manage the true like gafes or sasori they are like race horses with a narrow sight and a huge ignorance about the country and it´s political condition, they just go in with personal insults, cause they don´t bother to think and thats the only way to let theyr frustration go since they can´t reason propperly, they just keep thinking that insulting me and always being antagonic are going to acomplish anything.

Well I say If they think this is a war.. well, let them think so, it´s just witty.


Go with your bull**** conspiracy theories somewhere else, HIPPIE. You would have to be somewhat mentally challenged to believe in that crap. Do you also believe in Santa Clause?

[Wolfpack]

Nop, I´m far over your age pal to still belive in such things. Youre way behind in the knowledge of your country, it´s politics and the society, meanwhile keep calling me hippie and others, I like it, it only tells me how furstrated and agry you are.


at least i can spell properly wolfpack there for i have a better understanding about a real war is. Have you ever been in a real shoot out with narcos yourself. How unmidigatenly are you do you not really understand the suffering people are under becuase of the narcos and kidnappers.

Neither do you sasori, neither do you. And to be honest no one in here, so under such logic no one would be talking about fighting the narc right? so please don´t be ridiculous, focus on thread. And belive me I do know about the suffering of people, close members of my family have been kidnapped, ironically by police. Still I think you guys really over dimention the so called "war" wich is only a media tag of a very important problem of the country.


Going back on thread: naval air group has arrived yesterday to santa lucia and it´s very disapointing, lets hope some more arrive during the week but so far is not even close to what was expected. Here´s the numbers and types. The general assembly will be done on sept 13 and 14, the airspace is reserved so the air parade is almost a fact. If you want to take a look on the f-5´s assemble practices try this link.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V0S7RdjHUq0

The numbers so far are this, and may change.

Naval Air group
1 Casa C-212
2 Redigos
1 Mi-17
1 Panther
1 Bolkow BO-105

Air Force

6 F-5 E/F
32 Pilatus Pc-7
4 C-130 Hercules.
5 IAI Arava
4 UH-60 Black Hawk
4 Ch 53 Yasoor 2000
5 Mil Mi 17 Hip
4 Md 530

The ambraers are almost certainly nos going to be present.

[Ordie]

Going back on thread: naval air group has arrived yesterday to santa lucia and it´s very disapointing, .

Given the recent hurricane recovery efforts, I'm not surprised about the low turn-out.
Too bad the FAM's CH-53 are not involved in the recovery efforts.

The USN has deployed its CH-53's unit based in Texas to Central America.

[Shadowstorm]

Go with your bull**** conspiracy theories somewhere else, HIPPIE. You would have to be somewhat mentally challenged to believe in that crap. Do you also believe in Santa Clause?
He must forgot their is a War on Drugs.

[Wolfpack]

Given the recent hurricane recovery efforts, I'm not surprised about the low turn-out.
Too bad the FAM's CH-53 are not involved in the recovery efforts.

The USN has deployed its CH-53's unit based in Texas to Central America.

There wasn´t really much damage to use them, the hurricane made more damage at places like Hidalgo, anyway it was nothing that the local forces can´t manage an in need still the fam 212´s at Merida.

Since the new one is coming on the pacific, not the caribean, still you must be right, naval forces may be on hold in case something hapen, also the ground party of the parade may be 20 000 short if emergency is declared soon in some states. so lets hope the weather is nice.

[GAFES]

A few days ago a cell of the Sinaloa Cartel were arrested in Guadalajara, MX.
I wonder where they are getting them P-90s, and Five Seven pistols.

http://img509.imageshack.us/img509/9065/7657655kj4.jpg
http://img504.imageshack.us/img504/4200/678677nf3.jpg

http://img258.imageshack.us/img258/710/b4401ya8.jpg

[flanker7]

Can't see the Five-seveN. The P-90 is civilian model though

[GAFES]

Can't see the Five-seveN. The P-90 is civilian model though

They have found Five-Sevens in several '' security houses''. I think it's kind of weird because you can't buy ( fn )P-90s and (fn)Five Seven pistols here in Mexico.

[flanker7]

I bet you can by them in the USA though

[Panhard_Commander]

hey, i've seen those p90 in the airborne divisions, so it just can't be used by civilians at least in this side of the frontier...right?

[GAFES]

More Gifts.


http://img160.imageshack.us/img160/8435/f14791kw3.jpg
http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/135/f14793jz2.jpg
http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/8817/f147911wo9.jpg
http://img210.imageshack.us/img210/351/f14792sx4.jpg
http://img520.imageshack.us/img520/3814/f147910zp1.jpg

Rocket launchers? wtf No wonder why local police gets owned all the time.
http://img160.imageshack.us/img160/2143/f9344st1.jpg
http://img210.imageshack.us/img210/4910/f9343kl4.jpg

[Wolfpack]

They have found Five-Sevens in several '' security houses''. I think it's kind of weird because you can't buy ( fn )P-90s and (fn)Five Seven pistols here in Mexico.

The U.S. obviously Gafes. Mexico is like an island since you can´t get or find this legally so easy and delincuents don´t tend to buy weaons legally, they have to brought them in from the US, the nearest market is just a border away. Of course weapons arrrive from other places, but mainly the us.

[Shadowstorm]

More Gifts.


http://img160.imageshack.us/img160/8435/f14791kw3.jpg
http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/135/f14793jz2.jpg
http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/8817/f147911wo9.jpg
http://img210.imageshack.us/img210/351/f14792sx4.jpg
http://img520.imageshack.us/img520/3814/f147910zp1.jpg

Rocket launchers? wtf No wonder why local police gets owned all the time.
http://img160.imageshack.us/img160/2143/f9344st1.jpg
http://img210.imageshack.us/img210/4910/f9343kl4.jpg
I'm glad they cought these guy's before they did any damage. But I like said the Mexican Army and police need's to get some type armoured vehicles.

[GAFES]

I just found this, it's a video recorded during the Capture of the Gulf drug Cartel boss Osiel cardenas Guillen. Regular and the Army's High Command Special Force were involved in the operation, that turned out to a shootout.

http://www.youtube.com/v/cWjYtSuT2u8

http://img520.imageshack.us/img520/8987/048f12484e75bf5.jpg


This is him after being captured scorted by two members of the High Command Special Force ( the army's counter terrorist unit)


http://www.youtube.com/v/rdNPk-nS7I0

[Shadowstorm]

It sound's like the Old West.

[Felix U. Gómez]

What war? I don't see any war? It's not like anyone's shooting or anything.
Yeez!!! It must be nice to be deaf and dumb. :roll:

What some people call political knowledge ...others call conspiracy theories. You never know what those pot smoking hippies are going to come up with next! Gotta love em!
Time to put on the tin-foil hats eh?

[Shadowstorm]

Yeah I know.

[Felix U. Gómez]

More Gifts.


http://img160.imageshack.us/img160/8435/f14791kw3.jpg
http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/135/f14793jz2.jpg
http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/8817/f147911wo9.jpg
http://img210.imageshack.us/img210/351/f14792sx4.jpg
http://img520.imageshack.us/img520/3814/f147910zp1.jpg

Rocket launchers? wtf No wonder why local police gets owned all the time.
http://img160.imageshack.us/img160/2143/f9344st1.jpg
http://img210.imageshack.us/img210/4910/f9343kl4.jpg

Armored vehicles? Armored vehicles?
We don't need no stinking armored vehicles!
rofl

*I hope you guys watched "Treasure of the Sierra Madre."

[Shadowstorm]

Yep, nothing bad is going on in Mexico, I think.

[Felix U. Gómez]

All kidding aside, I honestly think that the war against drug trafficking can never be completely won, unless everyone everywhere were to stop using drugs, which is never going to happen. The other solution, my favorite, would be just to legalize the dam crap, and put drug dealers out of business like the end of prohibition in the US put a stop to bootlegging. I don't think its going to happen because it would take a politician with extremely big balls to pull that off, and it would have to be on both sides of the border.
What can be done, and can happen if the Mexican government continues the current course of fighting them with more intensity and decision, is that the cartels are forced to operate with a lot more discretion, underground, like the roaches that they are. No longer obvious and with impunity, kind of like they operate in the US or in France. I have always believed that there are cartels in the US, just that they operate with a lot more discretion to stay under the radar. As a Mexican journalist once said, "the difference between organized crime in the US and in Mexico is that in the US... organized crime is organized."

[Shadowstorm]

Yeah I know. But half the people want marijuana legal for medical reasons in the United States, however a lot of people don't want the hardcore drugs like the cocaine, heroin, ice or meth, opium and other bad drugs to be legal at all and shouldn't be ether. However even with marijuana or all the were legal it wouldn't stop drug cartels for good. Because they would still find a market in underground world. Tell you the truth, I would never touch the stuff, because all is doing to you is f**king you up and make lazy and ugly and makes you delusional. That's why I never touch the s**t.

[Felix U. Gómez]

Exactly! If they legalized all of them, it would not mean that all of a sudden you would have an explosion of users. Most of us have enough sense (except for a couple of us:roll:) that we wouldn't touch the stuff and we would teach our children to avoid it. But, if you legalized it you could do many things, like tax it, regulate quality, and the money that you saved from not fighting traffickers, you could you for education and treatment. They spend billion$$$ to combat it, it would cost less for teaching and treatment. When they finally ended prohibition I am sure that there must of been those that warned of an explosion of alcoholics, it didn't happen, I'm sure that the number of alcoholics remained the same.
Besides, by legalization, you take away the "taboo" factor for some young people.

[Felix U. Gómez]

But half the people want marijuana legal for medical reasons in the United States, however a lot of people don't want the hardcore drugs like the cocaine, heroin, ice or meth, opium and other bad drugs to be legal at all and shouldn't be ether.

That's why legalizing drugs would require politicians on both side of the border with a lot of huevos. Because, what is necessary or correct is not always what is popular.

[jklv]

Gracias gafes! te agradesco por las fotos y videos.
Gracias a dios y los hombres valerosos que capturaron a la mierda esa que se hacen llamar hombres, que son alabados en corridos, que se creen la gran cagada y no legan ni a mierda. Comparto con ustedes mi corage y ganas de destruir a estos carteles de la droga, que se hacen ricos haciendo mal a otros inocentes. Espero que estando en la carcel sean violados diariamente, humilados, golpeados y finalmente asesinados en el momento en que ya no sea posible sentir mas dolor.


De nuevo gafes te agradesco por darme la felicidad de ver gente caca capturada y ****to en prision. :hug:
Una duda, sobre las armas en la camioneta me parece ver un lanzagranadas. Alguien me ayudaria a identificarlo?

[Shadowstorm]

That's why legalizing drugs would require politicians on both side of the border with a lot of huevos. Because, what is necessary or correct is not always what is popular.
Yeah, but it will be hard, because almost 80% of people in the United States are against those hardcore drugs.

[jklv]

Exactly! If they legalized all of them, it would not mean that all of a sudden you would have an explosion of users. Most of us have enough sense (except for a couple of us:roll:) that we wouldn't touch the stuff and we would teach our children to avoid it. But, if you legalized it you could do many things, like tax it, regulate quality, and the money that you saved from not fighting traffickers, you could you for education and treatment. They spend billion$$$ to combat it, it would cost less for teaching and treatment. When they finally ended prohibition I am sure that there must of been those that warned of an explosion of alcoholics, it didn't happen, I'm sure that the number of alcoholics remained the same.
Besides, by legalization, you take away the "taboo" factor for some young people.
Edit: Never mind, understood your point of view and I share it. Also violence may stop ;)

[Shadowstorm]

That's why Fox's drug bill never, because a lot of in Mexico and United States was totally against it.

[Ordie]

All kidding aside, I honestly think that the war against drug trafficking can never be completely won, unless everyone everywhere were to stop using drugs, which is never going to happen. The other solution, my favorite, would be just to legalize the dam crap, and put drug dealers out of business like the end of prohibition in the US put a stop to bootlegging.

Good point.

One should take a look at the Sicilian Mob in the US. At thier peak, they thrived on scarcity of vices. (Booze, gambling, betting, union racateering, loan sharks, protection etc...)

Overtime, most of thier businesses became legitimate.

Booze is now legal.
Gambling is the norm for many states.
Sports betting is done on-line.
Unions are no longer strong.
Most people have credit cards.
and protection is no longer needed or depended upon.

What is left of the mob are "bottom feeders" who refuse to evolve and become legit.

[Shadowstorm]

Yeah I know.

[GAFES]

Ok fellas. For the first time in history we see the FX-05 in its assault rifle version. Longer barrel. In this pic they have the carry handle detached.

http://img212.imageshack.us/img212/2125/fxlargost3uq4.jpg

Picture provided by Sergio from MAF.

[Sasori]

cada dia menos y menos narcos grandes quedan. In a few more years all that will be left is nothing more than small time narcos running around the place like rats in the sewer squerring from the army.

Five more days for the parade to start please gafes put a link up to view the parade if possible.

gracias gafes.

[gatomalo]

Boy he looks mean, doesnt he?!?!?!

[gatomalo]

Heres some cool paint on some f-5's that I found. They look good!

[AztecMex]

Ok fellas. For the first time in history we see the FX-05 in its assault rifle version. Longer barrel. In this pic they have the carry handle detached.

http://img212.imageshack.us/img212/2125/fxlargost3uq4.jpg

Picture provided by Sergio from MAF.
I like what i see:)

[Felix U. Gómez]

Ok fellas. For the first time in history we see the FX-05 in its assault rifle version. Longer barrel. In this pic they have the carry handle detached.

http://img212.imageshack.us/img212/2125/fxlargost3uq4.jpg

Picture provided by Sergio from MAF.

Sweet!!!
We'll probably get to see more pictures this week in the days leading up to the parade. There's also Sept. 13.
This picture looks like it was taken in a practice for the parade. Do you have any info on where it's from Gafes?

[Felix U. Gómez]

Edit: Never mind, understood your point of view and I share it. Also violence may stop ;)

My intention is only to try to figure out a permanent solution to this cancer jklv. I would still persecute and punish those that are breaking the law now and those that have broken it in the past. First, put them out of business by legalizing the stuff, then go after their money, their businesses, their bank accounts, and finally, after them.

[Shadowstorm]

Can't wait til see the new variant of the FX-05.

[GAFES]

Sweet!!!
We'll probably get to see more pictures this week in the days leading up to the parade. There's also Sept. 13.
This picture looks like it was taken in a practice for the parade. Do you have any info on where it's from Gafes?

Not really. The guy just posted the pic with no info. And as you said, On the 13th we will probably get to see the assault rifle.

[Felix U. Gómez]

Hey Gafes,
What's with the black helmet covers? I remember when I was a kid that the army caps were black.

[GAFES]

You guys might want to check out this document provided by Hacienda. It shows the new projects/plans the Navy has in mind.

http://www.apartados.hacienda.gob.mx/presupuesto/temas/ppef/2008/temas/tomos/13/r13_pir.pdf



The Bulom project is once again re-opened.

More OPVs.

A search and rescue school.

The Marines will receive more individual weaponry and electronic equipment.

and more..

[GAFES]

Hey Gafes,
What's with the black helmet covers? I remember when I was a kid that the army caps were black.


Not sure. The only ones who actually use black covers on their helmets are the SF units. Also the BDU has that weird color.

[Shadowstorm]

You guys might want to check out this document provided by Hacienda. It shows the new projects/plans the Navy has in mind.

http://www.apartados.hacienda.gob.mx/presupuesto/temas/ppef/2008/temas/tomos/13/r13_pir.pdf



The Bulom project is once again re-opened.

More OPVs.

A search and rescue school.

The Marines will receive more individual weaponry and electronic equipment.

and more..
Finally, some good news.

[Panhard_Commander]

http://img212.imageshack.us/img212/2125/fxlargost3uq4.jpg

nice, but it doesn't have a handle...

[Wolfpack]

Obvioualy something´s wrong with the colors, the helmets must be regular army green, check the green color of the van is far to decolorated, sedena don´t use that color. The image has been manipulated since it´s obvious an amplified chunk of a bigger picture, therefore the true colors are not shown in here.

The army uses a code on the helmets cover when in exercise, red, blue white etc etc. but nornally it´s regular woodland or overal green, black is not a mantadory or regular helment cover.

On other line, her´s some pics on the parade practices at Santa lucia now with the navy assets included.
Photo and video credit belong to Balooritz.
http://img511.imageshack.us/img511/6085/dscn1793wr5.jpg
http://img516.imageshack.us/img516/4856/dscn1693ld3.jpg
http://img524.imageshack.us/img524/2129/dscn1809oo2.jpg
http://img511.imageshack.us/img511/7594/dscn1856kn9.jpg
http://img524.imageshack.us/img524/8028/dscn1737oq7.jpg

This is the pilatus formation.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=vkQUIhX-BiI

[AztecMex]

http://img516.imageshack.us/img516/4856/dscn1693ld3.jpg

Hey whats that white thing? Fuel tank? Never saw it before so i am curious:)

[Shadowstorm]

A AIM-9 Sidewinder training round.

[Wolfpack]

No, It´s a smokewinder, a smoke dispenser. Saddly they´re having problems on them actually, not working propperly. The blue one is an inert sidweinder, not a round, cuase they are not shot away only the heat seaking part works.
http://img294.imageshack.us/img294/3366/misilesdehumogk7.jpg
http://img257.imageshack.us/img257/8246/f5taxeandoag0.jpg

[Shadowstorm]

Never heard of a Smokewinder. Thanks.

[Wolfpack]

I don´t know if that its the oficial name, but armourers at ea 401 called them that way.

[Shadowstorm]

How I looked at it, I thought it was a training round.

[AztecMex]

huh.....it still looks nice:)

[jklv]

Could somebody please provide me a list of Mexican warfare technologies research companies? I only know Hydra Technologies at this time.
Thanks =D

[Felix U. Gómez]

You guys might want to check out this document provided by Hacienda. It shows the new projects/plans the Navy has in mind.

http://www.apartados.hacienda.gob.mx/presupuesto/temas/ppef/2008/temas/tomos/13/r13_pir.pdf



The Bulom project is once again re-opened.

More OPVs.

A search and rescue school.

The Marines will receive more individual weaponry and electronic equipment.

and more..

It seems like this is part of the proposed budget for 2008 (correct me if I'm wrong). It still hasn't been approved by the Congress, and the way that those guys are, the actual budget is likely to suffer "modifications". So don't get your panties wet yet guys. We need to cross our fingers and hope that not a whole lot gets chopped off. Of course, if they were to pass the proposed fiscal reform, the navy would probably get all that they are asking for.
A possibility, which would fall under the part that talks about "individual weaponry" for the marines could be the naval assault rifle that has been under development for the past few years. Just a thought. Wishful thinking maybe.

[Felix U. Gómez]

Not sure. The only ones who actually use black covers on their helmets are the SF units. Also the BDU has that weird color.

Yes, by looking at several pictures that you have posted before and in the Mexican Armed Forces album, I think that you are right, black helmet covers and body armor seems to be reserved for the SF. Originally however, they were only using black body armor not the helmet covers. The helmet covers seem to be a new development, maybe in use when in anti-narcotics operations to distinguish SF from regular infantry. Thanks.

[GAFES]

TWO FEDERAL AGENTS KILLED DURING A SHOOTOUT AGAINST DRUG TRAFFICKERS.

Web Posted: 09/11/2007 04:18 PM CDT

Sean Mattson
Express-News Mexico Correspondent

MONTERREY, Mexico — Two federal police officers were shot dead Tuesday and two more were injured by gunfire in yet another attack on law enforcers in this violence-torn metropolis.

The officers met a hail of high-caliber gunfire around 10 a.m. at a gas station close to a Holiday Inn Express near the center of the city. A least 100 shell casings littered the street around the scene.

Their deaths bring to about 30 the number of officers killed in the Monterrey area this year in attacks blamed on organized crime.

Authorities did not immediately release names of the officers or say what they were doing at the time of the attack.

Local media reported that the officers were staying at the hotel and may have been transporting a prisoner or detainee.

A spokeswoman for the federal attorney general's office said one of the officers killed, and the two wounded, worked for the Federal Investigation Agency, or AFI, Mexico's rough equivalent of the FBI.

The other officer belonged to the Federal Preventative Police, or PFP.

In August, two AFI officers were kidnapped and killed in Monterrey.

Federal officers often operate undercover and do not advise local authorities of their activities due to mistrust between corruption-****e police organizations.

Two men were arrested at the scene of the shooting but their involvement was unclear.

Media reports said a grenade that did not explode was found next to an abandoned vehicle beside the gas station.

Mexico is weathering an ongoing wave of violence perpetrated largely by two rival drug cartels that are fighting for control of smuggling routes in the multi-billion-dollar illicit industry.

Some 1,700 people have died across the country this year in organized-crime related deaths, at an average pace of about 40 per week.

http://img294.imageshack.us/img294/5008/afismtygdecfb391zr2.jpg

[Shadowstorm]

Pathetic. RIP for the people who were killed by these drugger's.

[Shadowstorm]

Hey does anybody know when Dragunov will be back.

[Wolfpack]

What do you mean? he never left he is GAFES.

[Shadowstorm]

I never knew that.

[jklv]

TWO FEDERAL AGENTS KILLED DURING A SHOOTOUT AGAINST DRUG TRAFFICKERS.

Web Posted: 09/11/2007 04:18 PM CDT

Sean Mattson
Express-News Mexico Correspondent

MONTERREY, Mexico — Two federal police officers were shot dead Tuesday and two more were injured by gunfire in yet another attack on law enforcers in this violence-torn metropolis.

The officers met a hail of high-caliber gunfire around 10 a.m. at a gas station close to a Holiday Inn Express near the center of the city. A least 100 shell casings littered the street around the scene.

Their deaths bring to about 30 the number of officers killed in the Monterrey area this year in attacks blamed on organized crime.

Authorities did not immediately release names of the officers or say what they were doing at the time of the attack.

Local media reported that the officers were staying at the hotel and may have been transporting a prisoner or detainee.

A spokeswoman for the federal attorney general's office said one of the officers killed, and the two wounded, worked for the Federal Investigation Agency, or AFI, Mexico's rough equivalent of the FBI.

The other officer belonged to the Federal Preventative Police, or PFP.

In August, two AFI officers were kidnapped and killed in Monterrey.

Federal officers often operate undercover and do not advise local authorities of their activities due to mistrust between corruption-****e police organizations.

Two men were arrested at the scene of the shooting but their involvement was unclear.

Media reports said a grenade that did not explode was found next to an abandoned vehicle beside the gas station.

Mexico is weathering an ongoing wave of violence perpetrated largely by two rival drug cartels that are fighting for control of smuggling routes in the multi-billion-dollar illicit industry.

Some 1,700 people have died across the country this year in organized-crime related deaths, at an average pace of about 40 per week.

http://img294.imageshack.us/img294/5008/afismtygdecfb391zr2.jpg
Valiendo...

[Felix U. Gómez]

Hey does anybody know when Dragunov will be back.

They gave him sixty days in solitary. Those bastards.p-)

[Felix U. Gómez]

TWO FEDERAL AGENTS KILLED DURING A SHOOTOUT AGAINST DRUG TRAFFICKERS.

Web Posted: 09/11/2007 04:18 PM CDT

Sean Mattson
Express-News Mexico Correspondent

MONTERREY, Mexico — Two federal police officers were shot dead Tuesday and two more were injured by gunfire in yet another attack on law enforcers in this violence-torn metropolis.

The officers met a hail of high-caliber gunfire around 10 a.m. at a gas station close to a Holiday Inn Express near the center of the city. A least 100 shell casings littered the street around the scene.

Their deaths bring to about 30 the number of officers killed in the Monterrey area this year in attacks blamed on organized crime.

Authorities did not immediately release names of the officers or say what they were doing at the time of the attack.

Local media reported that the officers were staying at the hotel and may have been transporting a prisoner or detainee.

A spokeswoman for the federal attorney general's office said one of the officers killed, and the two wounded, worked for the Federal Investigation Agency, or AFI, Mexico's rough equivalent of the FBI.

The other officer belonged to the Federal Preventative Police, or PFP.

In August, two AFI officers were kidnapped and killed in Monterrey.

Federal officers often operate undercover and do not advise local authorities of their activities due to mistrust between corruption-****e police organizations.

Two men were arrested at the scene of the shooting but their involvement was unclear.

Media reports said a grenade that did not explode was found next to an abandoned vehicle beside the gas station.

Mexico is weathering an ongoing wave of violence perpetrated largely by two rival drug cartels that are fighting for control of smuggling routes in the multi-billion-dollar illicit industry.

Some 1,700 people have died across the country this year in organized-crime related deaths, at an average pace of about 40 per week.

http://img294.imageshack.us/img294/5008/afismtygdecfb391zr2.jpg

Descansen en paz.
This pisses me off. Monterrey is such a cool city, and for the most part it is very orderly and safe, except for crap like this which is fairly new there.

[Felix U. Gómez]

What do you mean? he never left he is GAFES.

Yes, Gafes is Dragunov.
You are Dragunov.
I am Dragunov.
We all are Dragunov. For in each of us, we carry a little bit of our brother Dragunov. May he be returned to us one day soon.

[Shadowstorm]

I heard that Monterrey is one of the safest cities in Mexico and Latin America.

[AztecMex]

RIP to them. Dragunov is eveything and everything is Dragunov, all hail Dragunov!:)

[Wolfpack]

http://img106.imageshack.us/img106/3498/dibujogv7.png


http://www.esmastv.com.mx/esmas_tv/smallPlayer.aspx?id=12031&idroot=76

Tv coverage on the air force and navy practices, its very very worthy.

[GAFES]

Enjoy.


http://www.youtube.com/v/ZTQvxiPNJTo


http://www.youtube.com/v/TxD-_Z_WbOw

[AztecMex]

Love the vids they look really sharp!:)

[Sasori]

monterrey is a really cool city and nuevo leon is really nice i have been there many times i have lots of family in that city and state. My cousin is a policia federal in nuevo leon he has been in that position for about ten years it a very dangerous job now that the dame narcos are doing there levantones and shoot outs all over mexico.

cant wait for the parade in mexico city only two more days to go.

can any one get a link to the parade so we can see the whole of the parade if possible.

[GAFES]

http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/4898/dsc01238kd4.jpg
If im not wrong, this is San Miguel de los Jagueyes ( Military base)

[Shadowstorm]

Mexican Army camp in Chiapas in the mid 90s.
http://www.peacebrigades.org/graphics/sipazap1.jpg

[Shadowstorm]

http://www.defencetalk.com/pictures/data/4685/medium/howtt6.png (http://javascript<b></b>:;)
http://www.afbase.com/bbs/data/s_photo/S_F_5nationMexico.jpg (http://www.afbase.com/bbs/data/s_photo/F_5nationMexico.jpg)

[Felix U. Gómez]

Nice videos guys. I can't wait for the parade. This year I will be there. The last time that I was there was back in 81 or 82. I will try to find a spot right in the Zócalo. If you watch it on tv, I'll be the one waiving :).

Monterrey is a kick ass city. I've been there many, many times. I married a Regia, so I got to go there during X-mas, Holy Week, Summer, you name it. It's got nice museums (some of them world class), awesome restaurants, super modern malls, the works. I've never had any problems there. It's very safe, for the most part. It saddens me to see sh*t like this going on in such a fine city.
My only complaint is that they drive too fast.

[Felix U. Gómez]

http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/4898/dsc01238kd4.jpg
If im not wrong, this is San Miguel de los Jagueyes ( Military base)

I think I saw this base once. Is it by any chance within site of the super highway that goes from Mexico City to Querétaro? What I saw was massive.

[Wolfpack]

I´m going today to santa lucia, Yesterday I went to the Military College I got bored up to my ears, but today I´m going over with a group to take a look at the parade air group pilots are on leave, so onlya few sporadic operations. Were going to be issued a conmemorative anual parade flight patch.

keep you informed.

[GAFES]

Some old pictures of the FES, navy SF unit.

http://img507.imageshack.us/img507/8133/75768mv4.jpg
http://img507.imageshack.us/img507/8104/7574565au3.jpg
http://img529.imageshack.us/img529/4518/769789kb0.jpg
http://img205.imageshack.us/img205/7214/987879mu4.jpg

[Tokamak]

Hi,

Do any of you know where I could find more information about the 201st squadron? The other day I was looking for info but I couldn’t find any good one.

Thanks.

[wicked_hind]

Hi,

Do any of you know where I could find more information about the 201st squadron? The other day I was looking for info but I couldn’t find any good one.

Thanks.

Go to this website, the Latin American Aviation Historical Society. They have lots of information, and I'm sure you'll find what you're looking for.

www.laahs.com/artman/publish/

[Ordie]

Question:

Does the FAM have an aerobatic display team?

[Tokamak]

Thanks,

I am mainly interested in a good picture of all the members of the squadron. My wife’s granddad was part of the squadron and one day she wanted to show me a picture of him but we couldn’t find any on the internet.

[GAFES]

Thanks,

I am mainly interested in a good picture of all the members of the squadron. My wife’s granddad was part of the squadron and one day she wanted to show me a picture of him but we couldn’t find any on the internet.

http://media.militaryphotos.net/photos/albums/album52/ays.gif
http://img524.imageshack.us/img524/149/img0201a13cefaeoy3.jpg
http://media.militaryphotos.net/photos/albums/album52/ayt.jpg

Extra ones.
http://img524.imageshack.us/img524/579/p47img020113f23b5ra7.jpg
http://img263.imageshack.us/img263/2263/pict0020113f377buq8.jpg
http://img518.imageshack.us/img518/8228/pict020113f08e9zr8.jpg

[gatomalo]

http://media.militaryphotos.net/photos/albums/album52/ays.gif
http://img524.imageshack.us/img524/149/img0201a13cefaeoy3.jpg
http://media.militaryphotos.net/photos/albums/album52/ayt.jpg

Extra ones.
http://img524.imageshack.us/img524/579/p47img020113f23b5ra7.jpg
http://img263.imageshack.us/img263/2263/pict0020113f377buq8.jpg
http://img518.imageshack.us/img518/8228/pict020113f08e9zr8.jpg

Fantastic pictures Gafes!

[gatomalo]

My only complaint is that they drive too fast.

Last time I was in Monterrey, I made the mistake of getting in a taxi...wow!! That was definetaly an eye opening experience!

[Tokamak]

http://media.militaryphotos.net/photos/albums/album52/ays.gif
http://img524.imageshack.us/img524/149/img0201a13cefaeoy3.jpg
http://media.militaryphotos.net/photos/albums/album52/ayt.jpg

Extra ones.
http://img524.imageshack.us/img524/579/p47img020113f23b5ra7.jpg
http://img263.imageshack.us/img263/2263/pict0020113f377buq8.jpg
http://img518.imageshack.us/img518/8228/pict020113f08e9zr8.jpg
Great!!!!! Thank you. I have seen in person one of the pictures the old men are showing. It is signed by the members of the squadron I beleive. Thank you Gafes.

[GAFES]

ARMY SPECIAL FORCES BATTALIONS

http://img300.imageshack.us/img300/3346/pf0018060913her14bfmus5.jpg
http://img187.imageshack.us/img187/2171/pf0086060913her16bfmaw4.jpg
http://img187.imageshack.us/img187/3347/pf1791050916desfile8bfmsk6.jpg
http://img146.imageshack.us/img146/4797/pf7300040607ejercito01msc5.jpg
http://img96.imageshack.us/img96/9426/pf4330060916ind16bfmdp0.jpg
http://img356.imageshack.us/img356/2862/pf5731070505caldmd10mpp9.jpg
http://img356.imageshack.us/img356/1127/pf8477040902colegiomilidx7.jpg
http://img356.imageshack.us/img356/1153/pf8454040902colegiomilieg8.jpg
Old picture from the 80s.
http://img96.imageshack.us/img96/5900/pf6980000916ejercito5mdk1.jpg

[Wolfpack]

Hi,

Do any of you know where I could find more information about the 201st squadron? The other day I was looking for info but I couldn’t find any good one.

Thanks.


Ho yeah !! I agree, get in contact with these guys at LAAHS, www.laahs.com There are some great aviation historians over there, get in touch with Jose A. Quevedo or Azcarate.

Here´s a pic my brother shot at the XXV anniversary of the F-5´s, some of them were present.
http://img149.imageshack.us/img149/3681/imagen115lh1.jpg

Today we had a little air show on the Santa Lucia tarmac, sort to say, some politicos were invited, very casual talk, visited a few squadrons, questions, etc etc.
Good thing was that the esq 401 surprised every one with a 3 tiger´s formation impresive fly byes. There´s going to be some surprises at the parade ceremony, but I´m not gonna spoil them for you guys. Santa Lucia looks awsame with so many planes and helos.

[Felix U. Gómez]

Last time I was in Monterrey, I made the mistake of getting in a taxi...wow!! That was definetaly an eye opening experience!

They used to call them mocos. Porque se embarran en todas partes.

[gatomalo]

They used to call them mocos. Porque se embarran en todas partes.

How fitting!! There was a couple of intersections where I thought we were going to become the hood emblem on one of the autobuses. I dont think we once stopped for a red light or an Alto! But it beats the thieving bastards that pass for taxi drivers in Mexico City. Most of those guys suck and there in tight with the Transito!!

[GAFES]

[B]Pics from today's ceremony for the Graduation and Opening of courses.

http://img146.imageshack.us/img146/672/pf7571ogp070914calderonie6.jpg
http://img341.imageshack.us/img341/964/pf7665ogp070914calderonkh2.jpg
http://img206.imageshack.us/img206/3401/pf7583ogp070914calderonck5.jpg
http://img518.imageshack.us/img518/9421/pf7617ogp070914calderonjq6.jpg
http://img72.imageshack.us/img72/6121/pf7433ogp070914calderongr8.jpg
http://img146.imageshack.us/img146/7373/pf7509ogp070914calderondz2.jpg
http://img206.imageshack.us/img206/9240/pf7521ogp070914calderonhc5.jpg
http://img72.imageshack.us/img72/8151/pf7558ogp070914calderonyj7.jpg
http://img146.imageshack.us/img146/5308/pf7535ogp070914calderonyu6.jpg
http://img206.imageshack.us/img206/2629/5656566wx8.jpg
http://img72.imageshack.us/img72/7483/6756565zx2.jpg
http://img518.imageshack.us/img518/7739/56564545vt1.jpg

[flanker7]

http://img356.imageshack.us/img356/1127/pf8477040902colegiomilidx7.jpg


Are they using canadian made M-203s?
The mounting system looks similar

[Shadowstorm]

Nice pic GAFES.

[GAFES]

http://img356.imageshack.us/img356/1127/pf8477040902colegiomilidx7.jpg


Are they using canadian made M-203s?
The mounting system looks similar

Not sure. But it does look like it. You can put larger rounds to it. Some people think it looks huge.

I wonder if this can be added to the FX-05s.

[Shadowstorm]

More likely the M-203 might be on FX-05, however they probably put the AG-36 on the rifle too.

[GAFES]

More ceremonial pics. These are cadets from the Air Force academy.

http://img519.imageshack.us/img519/3512/dsc002201fg0.jpg
http://img522.imageshack.us/img522/8444/dsc0002ww7.jpg

[Panhard_Commander]

nice photos, where are they rising that flag??? because i can see a group of patriotic people around there

[Panhard_Commander]

i bet they'll put the ag-36 too...

[AztecMex]

Really nice photos:)

[Panhard_Commander]

http://img341.imageshack.us/img341/964/pf7665ogp070914calderonkh2.jpg

does he blacked out or it's just a demostration??? some one was present?

[GAFES]

http://img341.imageshack.us/img341/964/pf7665ogp070914calderonkh2.jpg

does he blacked out or it's just a demostration??? some one was present?


The cadet blacked out. Standing still for long periods of time causes it.

[GAFES]

''The Federales''

http://img211.imageshack.us/img211/2127/pf4306ogp050719afi3amii4.jpg
http://img146.imageshack.us/img146/2249/pf4285ogp050719afi2amdq6.jpg
http://img518.imageshack.us/img518/4878/pf4322ogp050719afi4ambw7.jpg
http://img503.imageshack.us/img503/5006/pf5201ogpoperativo5amzf3.jpg
http://img401.imageshack.us/img401/7471/pf6294ogpoperativo10amld2.jpg
http://img518.imageshack.us/img518/3050/pf4356051129afi4mnu2.jpg
http://img401.imageshack.us/img401/8199/pf6248051122afi18bfmzp5.jpg
http://img518.imageshack.us/img518/4061/pf5504051122afi14bfmco7.jpg
http://img401.imageshack.us/img401/803/pf2749070116operativo8oxz9.jpg
http://img401.imageshack.us/img401/1118/pf2714070116operativo4oie0.jpg
http://img503.imageshack.us/img503/5004/pf2709070116operativo6olo5.jpg
http://img518.imageshack.us/img518/2176/pf2706070116operativo7omn5.jpg
http://img503.imageshack.us/img503/2549/f96212qi1.jpg
http://img211.imageshack.us/img211/1821/pf8524040628afivigilandqn5.jpg
http://img337.imageshack.us/img337/2966/pf8104050712afi1bfmcs2.jpg
http://img503.imageshack.us/img503/7428/pf1658040503afibfmrg0.png
http://img337.imageshack.us/img337/963/r2588143799xs6.jpg
http://img526.imageshack.us/img526/2716/pf4501070906tab1mpi4.jpg
http://img208.imageshack.us/img208/1223/pf4474070906tabmbe2.jpg
http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/9681/pf2656061208detencioneswg4.jpg
http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/5209/pf8294040725carretera01us3.jpg
http://img206.imageshack.us/img206/884/pf5338061213caldmd19mdb8.jpg
http://img527.imageshack.us/img527/9058/pf8498040628afielementoum2.jpg
http://img134.imageshack.us/img134/159/pf5214070307felmd9mxd1.jpg
http://img85.imageshack.us/img85/3751/pf4992070307felmd8mtn8.jpg

[Gentle Norsemen]

The Mexicans seem very tall.I always thought of them as short and stocky.Well atleast from TV.Well armed and tall statured military.Do some Mexicans have European ancestry.Just wondering since I don't travel much :(

[GAFES]

The Mexicans seem very tall.I always thought of them as short and stocky.Well atleast from TV.Well armed and tall statured military.Do some Mexicans have European ancestry.Just wondering since I don't travel much :(


Like in every society, there is tall, average and short people. However in Mexican society most people are short. It also depends on the region, for example in southern and central Mexico there is a lot of short people because they are direct descendants of Indians. The popultion in Mexico is divided in these percentages: 60% Mestizo( Spaniard/Indian), 30% Indian and the rest are diverse minorities.

[Sasori]

were for the most part taller in northern mexico i measure around 5 feet 10 inches in high in the US that is not very tall but in mexico that is very tall.

[Sasori]

can any one get a link video for the parade tommorow in mexico city.

[Tokamak]

can any one get a link video for the parade tommorow in mexico city.

If anyone could share a link to watch the parade today would be fantastic!!!!. I haven't seen the parade for about 6 years.

[Tokamak]

Thanks for the link. My granddad in law died some years ago but I always like to hear the stories they have about him everytime I visit my wife's family.






Ho yeah !! I agree, get in contact with these guys at LAAHS, www.laahs.com (http://www.laahs.com) There are some great aviation historians over there, get in touch with Jose A. Quevedo or Azcarate.

Here´s a pic my brother shot at the XXV anniversary of the F-5´s, some of them were present.
http://img149.imageshack.us/img149/3681/imagen115lh1.jpg

Today we had a little air show on the Santa Lucia tarmac, sort to say, some politicos were invited, very casual talk, visited a few squadrons, questions, etc etc.
Good thing was that the esq 401 surprised every one with a 3 tiger´s formation impresive fly byes. There´s going to be some surprises at the parade ceremony, but I´m not gonna spoil them for you guys. Santa Lucia looks awsame with so many planes and helos.

[Tokamak]

Sorry I don’t know if you have shown or written something about it, but do you have more information about the Mexican missile? I thought it was built in collaboration with the National University of Mexico am I right?

[GAFES]

[B]Pictures from last night's National Independence celebrationB]

http://img178.imageshack.us/img178/457/mainphpg2viewcoremu0.jpg
http://img253.imageshack.us/img253/2269/mainphpg2viewcorerj2.jpg
http://img179.imageshack.us/img179/7883/mainphpg2viewcorecg6.jpg
http://img210.imageshack.us/img210/2169/mainphpg2viewcoredu7.jpg
http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/8058/mainphpg2viewcoretq0.jpg

[GAFES]

The Military Parade is about to start.

To watch LIVE click on the link below--->

http://www.grito-independencia-mexico.com/

[Tokamak]

Great Thanks.!!!!

[Shadowstorm]

Link don't work.

[Panhard_Commander]

same for me, it even disconnets mi adsl!!!

[Panhard_Commander]

http://img146.imageshack.us/img146/2249/pf4285ogp050719afi2amdq6.jpg

hey, i though they use just g3's or M-series...

[Tokamak]

It worked for me!

[Tokamak]

Try to connect to Channel 11
http://oncetv-ipn.net/index.php

Click on "Conectate"

[Tokamak]

During the militar parade I heard about the "Credo Mexicano" I didn't know it existed so I looked for it:

El Credo Mexicano
Ricardo López Méndez
México, creo en ti,
como en el vértice de un juramento.
Tú hueles a tragedia, tierra mía,
y sin embargo ríes demasiado,
acaso porque sabes que la risa
es la envoltura de un dolor callado.

México, creo en ti,
sin que te represente en una forma
porque te llevo dentro, sin que sepa
lo que tú eres en mí; pero presiento
que mucho te pareces a mi alma,
que sé que existe, pero no la veo.

México, creo en ti,
en el vuelo sutil de tus canciones
que nacen porque sí, en la plegaria
que yo aprendí para llamarte Patria:
algo que es mío en mí como tu sombra,
que se tiende con vida sobre el mapa.

México, creo en ti,
en forma tal que tienes de mi amada
la promesa y el beso que son míos,
sin que sepa por qué se me entregaron:
no sé si por ser bueno o por ser malo
o porque del perdón nazca el milagro.

México, creo en ti
sin preocuparme el oro de tu entraña:
es bastante la vida de tu barro
que refresca lo claro de las aguas
en el jarro que llora por los poros
la opresión de la carne de tu raza.

México, creo en ti,
porque creyendo te me vuelves ansia
y castidad y celo y esperanza.
Si yo conozco el cielo, es por tu cielo,
si conozco el dolor, es por tus lágrimas
que están en mí aprendiendo a ser lloradas.

México, creo en ti,
en tus cosechas de milagrerías
que sólo son deseo en las palabras.
Te consagras de auroras que te cantan
¡y todo el bosque se te vuelve carne!,
¡y todo el hombre se te vuelve selva!

México, creo en ti,
porque nací de ti, como la flama
es compendio del fuego y de la brasa;
porque me puse a meditar que existes
en el sueño y materia que me forman
y en el delirio de escalar montañas.

México, creo en ti,
porque escribes tu nombre con la equis,
que algo tiene de cruz y de calvario;
porque el águila brava de tu escudo
se divierte jugando a los volados
con la vida y, a veces, con la muerte.

México, creo en ti,
como creo en los clavos que te sangran,
en las espinas que hay en tu corona,
y en el mar que te aprieta la cintura
para que tomes en la forma humana
hechura de sirena en las espumas.

México, creo en ti,
porque si no creyera que eres mío
el propio corazón me lo gritara
y te arrebataría con mis brazos
a todo intento de volverte ajeno
sintiendo que a mí mismo me salvava.

México, creo en ti,
porque eres el alto de mi marcha
y el punto de partida de mi impulso.
¡Mi creo, Patria, tiene que ser tuyo,
como la voz que salva y como el ancla...!

[AztecMex]

It worked for me and the parade is very impressive!:)

[ZhukovG]

During the militar parade I heard about the "Credo Mexicano" I didn't know it existed so I looked for it:

El Credo Mexicano
Ricardo López Méndez
México, creo en ti,
como en el vértice de un juramento.
Tú hueles a tragedia, tierra mía,
y sin embargo ríes demasiado,
acaso porque sabes que la risa
es la envoltura de un dolor callado.

México, creo en ti,
sin que te represente en una forma
porque te llevo dentro, sin que sepa
lo que tú eres en mí; pero presiento
que mucho te pareces a mi alma,
que sé que existe, pero no la veo.

México, creo en ti,
en el vuelo sutil de tus canciones
que nacen porque sí, en la plegaria
que yo aprendí para llamarte Patria:
algo que es mío en mí como tu sombra,
que se tiende con vida sobre el mapa.

México, creo en ti,
en forma tal que tienes de mi amada
la promesa y el beso que son míos,
sin que sepa por qué se me entregaron:
no sé si por ser bueno o por ser malo
o porque del perdón nazca el milagro.

México, creo en ti
sin preocuparme el oro de tu entraña:
es bastante la vida de tu barro
que refresca lo claro de las aguas
en el jarro que llora por los poros
la opresión de la carne de tu raza.

México, creo en ti,
porque creyendo te me vuelves ansia
y castidad y celo y esperanza.
Si yo conozco el cielo, es por tu cielo,
si conozco el dolor, es por tus lágrimas
que están en mí aprendiendo a ser lloradas.

México, creo en ti,
en tus cosechas de milagrerías
que sólo son deseo en las palabras.
Te consagras de auroras que te cantan
¡y todo el bosque se te vuelve carne!,
¡y todo el hombre se te vuelve selva!

México, creo en ti,
porque nací de ti, como la flama
es compendio del fuego y de la brasa;
porque me puse a meditar que existes
en el sueño y materia que me forman
y en el delirio de escalar montañas.

México, creo en ti,
porque escribes tu nombre con la equis,
que algo tiene de cruz y de calvario;
porque el águila brava de tu escudo
se divierte jugando a los volados
con la vida y, a veces, con la muerte.

México, creo en ti,
como creo en los clavos que te sangran,
en las espinas que hay en tu corona,
y en el mar que te aprieta la cintura
para que tomes en la forma humana
hechura de sirena en las espumas.

México, creo en ti,
porque si no creyera que eres mío
el propio corazón me lo gritara
y te arrebataría con mis brazos
a todo intento de volverte ajeno
sintiendo que a mí mismo me salvava.

México, creo en ti,
porque eres el alto de mi marcha
y el punto de partida de mi impulso.
¡Mi creo, Patria, tiene que ser tuyo,
como la voz que salva y como el ancla...!

never heard of it
maybe only the military use it

[Dragunov]

Military Parade 2007


http://img187.imageshack.us/img187/7002/capt7e8f21866c1c40498b9dg4.jpg
http://img205.imageshack.us/img205/1223/blackhawkig1fs4.jpg
http://img72.imageshack.us/img72/1776/1393433378d5fd11a8e7odg5.jpg
http://img187.imageshack.us/img187/955/pf7309ogp070916desfile1zl3.jpg
http://img503.imageshack.us/img503/2981/pf7442ogp070916desfile2qc7.jpg
http://img299.imageshack.us/img299/3130/13925829155a4830c193ova2.jpg
http://img146.imageshack.us/img146/9487/pf7186ogp070916desfile2sm8.jpg
http://img518.imageshack.us/img518/6291/pf7222ogp070916desfile5lm1.jpg
http://img299.imageshack.us/img299/2517/pf7246ogp070916desfile7ce5.jpg
http://img187.imageshack.us/img187/955/pf7309ogp070916desfile1zl3.jpg
http://img503.imageshack.us/img503/42/pf7210ogp070916desfile4am9.jpg
http://img512.imageshack.us/img512/9730/10desfilefj3.jpg
http://img206.imageshack.us/img206/3711/1392547829db522fef66ohk5.jpg

[Shadowstorm]

Nice pictures. Also any new equipment at the parade.

[Dragunov]

The Airbourne's Pathfinder unit and members of the Special Forces Battalions during an exhibition today at the Military Parade.

http://www.youtube.com/v/fCPmwPxVLes

[Dragunov]

FX-05 Assault Rifle version ( full size).
Note: they are not using the detachable carrying handle in this ocasion.

http://img518.imageshack.us/img518/8297/fx05us8.jpg
http://img503.imageshack.us/img503/5117/fx05assaultversiondn3.jpg

Pics: lancero de toluca

[Shadowstorm]

Is the Mexican Army planning to put the 6.8mm round on the FX-05 in the future, because the bullet has longer range and more powerful then 5.56mm round.

[Tokamak]

Great pics!!!

[GETSOME]

Sweet pics ,thanks.

[Wolfpack]

My brother went spotting to Santa lucía Air Base: He got some nice shots. worth the sun burnt.

http://www.getphpbb.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=9229&mforum=maf

[Dragunov]

Special Forces Corps marching ( MILITARY PARADE 2007)

http://www.youtube.com/v/KrQCHGzKDS4

[Wolfpack]

Here´s some more videos.

Today´s morning press coincids: The Air Force stole the show away. My brother tells me that the communication between santa lucias and the air group at some point told them that the ground parade was going to be shortened, ad that they should hurry for theyr last passes.

Don´t know why.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fCPmwPxVLes

http://www.eluniversal.com.mx/graficos/septiembre07/index.html

http://videos.eluniversal.com.mx/paginas/videosdet4033.html

[Dragunov]

Members of the Special Forces Battalions.

http://img222.imageshack.us/img222/4583/78686767878777777777777df7.jpg
http://img220.imageshack.us/img220/9048/56575666yyyyyyyyyqs7.jpg

[Dragunov]

More of the SF presentation.

http://img261.imageshack.us/img261/8480/65654545rb7.jpg
http://img453.imageshack.us/img453/5932/1393733452097afc4512b45bo5.jpg
http://img257.imageshack.us/img257/7307/13937450906fab8e1071b56gh5.jpg
http://img468.imageshack.us/img468/2987/1393742894b62d24bdd0b75lz7.jpg

[AztecMex]

I love the rife version of the FX-05!:) looks real nice

[Wolfpack]

great pics on the black hawk, but could you please put them with theyr true colors, it would be better.

[Sasori]

the parade was really great i wish we would get to see the navy in some kinda or armada review where they could show the entirety of the navy and its new vessels if the budget goes thru for next year.

[Dragunov]

Picture of the Cornershot system in use by the Army SF units.

http://img222.imageshack.us/img222/2553/dsc03633xsl37xb4.jpg

Pic by Lobo.

[soutikghosh]

Nice pics, thanks for sharing.

[Shadowstorm]

Nice pictures, keep them coming.

[Shadowstorm]

Anything else new in the parade other than the FX-05.

[Dragunov]

Sweet.
http://img221.imageshack.us/img221/7945/465665656fv9.jpg
http://img220.imageshack.us/img220/20/879878jr3.jpg
http://img221.imageshack.us/img221/693/401896wh4.jpg
http://img222.imageshack.us/img222/1806/544444az9.jpg

[Dragunov]

Nice pics, thanks for sharing.


You are welcome.

BTW. Is really rare to see our northern neighbors post here.

[soutikghosh]

You are welcome.

BTW. Is really rare to see our northern neighbors post here.

Basically I an from India, so you see I am neutral. Anyway your armed force's face paint looks really deadly.
What is the general problem between Mexico and US other than immigration and drugs.

[soutikghosh]

Have you got any good pics of ERC-90 armoured cars.

[Dragunov]

Basically I an from India, so you see I am neutral. Anyway your armed force's face paint looks really deadly.
What is the general problem between Mexico and US other than immigration and drugs.

I see.

I guess only immigration. We are trying our best to minimize the drug shipments to the USA. But this is just imposible, the USA is the #1 market for drugs and drug traffickers wil do anyhting to keep shipping drugs to them.

Anyway, in their(conservatives) eyes we are always the bad ones.

[Dragunov]

http://img229.imageshack.us/img229/5975/dsc03592xdg1po5.jpg
http://img233.imageshack.us/img233/9768/dsc03593xom54bg8.jpg
http://img216.imageshack.us/img216/9514/1392848901e107463aa0bmc8.jpg
http://img218.imageshack.us/img218/584/1392843677f169916219bsz8.jpg
http://img216.imageshack.us/img216/4484/1392844399810e7ab37abdp0.jpg
http://img233.imageshack.us/img233/5679/dsc03589xsb6t656im9.jpg
http://img218.imageshack.us/img218/9640/dsc03588he16ar5.jpg
http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/9582/5664756co2.jpg
http://img216.imageshack.us/img216/6391/dsc03648xxxxuh95wl5.jpg
pics by lobo.

[Sasori]

when did mexico acquire the v 150 apc from the us i didnt know they had them. Will mexico acquire any more lynx erc from france or will they get the amx 10 tank destroyer.

[Felix U. Gómez]

Hey guys, just got back yesterday. The parade was awesome! The assault rifle version of the FX-05 looks very cool. I wasn't able to position myself in the Zócalo, due to the fact that I thought that getting there at nine would be OK, since the parade would start at 11:00. Turns out that I was wrong and you really have to get there at 6:00 am if you really want to get a good spot. The place was packed, I mean really packed! I was lucky to find a spot on 5 de Mayo Street up on a window sill. It was the best I could do. I sat up there for two hours until it started. Man! Whomever thinks that Mexicans don't love our military is really fuc&*d. People were five deep along the sidewalks, and they went on for miles. Since I'm not very handy at posting my pictures, I'm sending them to Gafes so he can post them for me.
Let's start making plans for going next year guys. We'll have a good old fashion peda during the grito. Better yet, let's plan for 2010. It will be the bicentennial celebration.

[Sasori]

the parade was awesome especially the descent of the blackhawks and the special forces repelling of the choppers and the parachute troops were all amazing to watch.


to bad we did not see any new military veichles for the army other than the dodge trucks and that new unit that was created. love the fact that mexico has female combatants in its forces unlike here in the us they dont allow woman to fight in the war.


hope the air force gets more ch 53 and more blackhawks hope they get around 20 or 30 blackhawks for the air force and maybe around 12 ch 53 i read on wikipedia germany is getting rid of 9 of there ch 53 maybe mexico could get them at a good price.


i found this german apc that may intrest mexico to look at. the weasel awc.

[Aztec Eagle]

Cool pics,plz keep them coming! Thank you

[soutikghosh]

Thanks man for the quick reply and those excellent photos. Same problem with India- Immigration. This is the issue of bone contention between India and Bangladesh. But about one thing I am very much sure Mexico is better than US is FOOTBALL. Just love the game.

[Panhard_Commander]

i wonder what kind of gas systm uses this ifle, if it's not the h&k patented...does any of you know about it?

[Panhard_Commander]

http://mex4you.net/wallpapers/albums/userpics/16-09-2007-04.jpg (javascript: window.close())

really impressive...

[Panhard_Commander]

http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t2/Itado/fot51.jpg

nice...

[Panhard_Commander]

http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t2/Itado/back20.jpg

http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t2/Itado/back18.jpg

http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t2/Itado/black34.jpg

http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t2/Itado/back8.jpg

http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/518/apoyofederal2wj2.jpg (http://imageshack.us/)

[AztecMex]

i noticed that some of the army personal have different camo then the reg all green uniform that the army uses, did they adopt new camo?

[Shadowstorm]

I wonder how big the September 21, 2010 parade would look like. But keep those pictures coming.

[Wolfpack]

i noticed that some of the army personal have different camo then the reg all green uniform that the army uses, did they adopt new camo?

Like 2 years ago. The overall green is used as a labor uniform, or while you are in the base, cammo is used for exercises and most deployments and field operations nowadays.

We talked about this a while back.