Far-right charity's pork soup ruled not racist

[Loki77]

http://multimedia.scotsman.com/common/img/ts.gif
Far-right charity's pork soup ruled not racist

A french charity with links to the extreme right has begun serving pork soup to homeless people after a judicial ruling that it was not a racist act. Solidarité des Français (SDF) has been accused of deliberate discrimination against Jews and Muslims, who do not eat the meat. But the charity has defended offering what it calls traditional cuisine to French and European homeless people.

The distribution of "racist soup" - as it has been dubbed by critics - first began in the winter of 2004. The practice was banned by Paris city council on the grounds that it was racist and discriminatory, after police closed the soup kitchens in an effort to prevent the rise of racial tension. However, a Paris judge overturned the ban on 28 December, allowing the charity to begin serving its Soupe de Cochon again.

SDF is associated with a small far-right organisation called Bloc Identitaire. Bertrand Delanoe, the Socialist mayor of Paris, denounced the judge's decision yesterday and called on the capital's chief of police to appeal against the decision. "Faced with this initiative, which stinks of xenophobia, I confirm the will of the city council to denounce and to combat all forms of discrimination, racism and anti-Semitism," he said.

The row came as Dominique de Villepin, the prime minister, vowed to make housing a legally enforceable right, as the government came under renewed pressure to help the country's estimated one million homeless, 100,000 of whom are sleeping on the streets.
LINK (http://news.scotsman.com/international.cfm?id=21222007)

..............is pork soup racist???

[sir-chimp]

The row came as Dominique de Villepin, the prime minister, vowed to make housing a legally enforceable right

inf_uckingsane

[Loki77]

inf_uckingsane

However, as someone who’s not at all happy with “Political Correctness”, it’s hilarious….




......Selling pork products is not racist. Giving away pork products is racist...

[Snoshi]

Ahh cmon.. Everyone knows what they really try to do..

[Loki77]

Ahh cmon.. Everyone knows what they really try to do..
What?.....

[Snoshi]

What?.....

Far right party sharing giving away pork on the street...

Does it sound fishy?

[Thor]

They're giving away food.

[TheBelgian]

Seriously. I mean, a shame for the Muslim and Jewish homeless of France, but political goals and ideals aside, for a starving man on the street, a meal is still a meal.

[Breakfast in Vegas]

Sounds yummy. Wish I had some pork soup right now.

[Loki77]

Far right party sharing giving away pork on the street...

Does it sound fishy?
I agree...




....But, if there are millions of homeless people in France that are making the decision to either not eat free food on religous grounds or die from starvation, then they are making a choice and have no grounds on which to complain about it.

[alfigel]

This action gives "Soup Nazi (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soup_Nazi)" a whole new meaning...

[Loki77]

This action gives "Soup Nazi (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soup_Nazi)" a whole new meaning...
Explain me...

[alfigel]

Explain me...

There's no point in explaining jokes... if you knew that special Seinfeld episode, you'd probably get it.

[Loki77]

There's no point in explaining jokes... if you knew that special Seinfeld episode, you'd probably get it.

I didn't watch that episode...
...I am going to find in Torrent.

[LaoSexMachine]

Serving pork is racist? Talk about reaching.

[Lazy Lob]

Far right party sharing giving away pork on the street...

Does it sound fishy?

It does, especially if the pigs are enriched with omega 3 oils.

[seraosha]

Turn down a free meal, go hungry.
Seems pretty straight forward to me.

"vowed to make housing a legally enforceable right"
This is much more serious, imo.
What are they going to do, make folks take in homeless people because they have a spare bedroom?

[CPL Trevoga]

Seriously. I mean, a shame for the Muslim and Jewish homeless of France, but political goals and ideals aside, for a starving man on the street, a meal is still a meal.

LOL Homeless Jewish man!!!! What are you smoking son?

There nothing wrong for a private charity to target only Frenchies. There are Jewish, Islamic charities that champion only their own kind, are they "racist" too?

[jimmyboots]

LOL Homeless Jewish man!!!! What are you smoking son?

roflrofl
rofl

[bluffcove]

It does, especially if the pigs are enriched with omega 3 oils.

you beat me to it.

The swine!

[Ivan le Fou]

Turn down a free meal, go hungry.
Seems pretty straight forward to me.

"vowed to make housing a legally enforceable right"
This is much more serious, imo.
What are they going to do, make folks take in homeless people because they have a spare bedroom?

Actually, they are planing to build Social-Housings (logements sociaux).

But, well in France you may be judged by people as rascist if you say "no", or just ask them to throw their dirts in the garbage, to a muslim/jew/african/whoever.

[VetsandVettes]

I just HATE the double standards. PC is going to end the world, and we're stupid enough to keep feeding the fires of idiodicy...
Case in point...

MINNEAPOLIS - Some Muslim cab drivers are refusing service to a growing number of passengers with alcohol or dogs, and officials at Minneapolis-St. Paul International airport are trying to fight it.
"Our expectation is that if you're going to be driving a taxi at the airport, you need to provide service to anybody who wants it," said Patrick Hogan, spokesman for the Metropolitan Airport Commission.
Each month, about 100 people are denied cab service at the airport, and refusals for religious reasons have grown in recent months, airport officials said. About three-quarters of the 900 taxi drivers at the airport are Somali, many of them Muslim.

[Eusebius]

Not that I care that Muslim or Jewish homeless can not enjoy this meal. But I think it is a matter of intent.

Is the point of this pork soup only to help the homeless? or is that the mere side effect of the real motive, which is essentially a mocking gesture towards these two religious groups.

Again, I should emphasize I don't really care, frankly some starving Muslims is just not on my list of 'Oh Noes!' stuff, just expressing what some of you seem to either be willfuly ignoring or don't wish to write.

[akd]

They're giving away food.

No, they are performing a rather transparent political stunt under the guise of charity.

[annihilation]

Not that I care that Muslim or Jewish homeless can not enjoy this meal. But I think it is a matter of intent.

Is the point of this pork soup only to help the homeless? or is that the mere side effect of the real motive, which is essentially a mocking gesture towards these two religious groups.

Again, I should emphasize I don't really care, frankly some starving Muslims is just not on my list of 'Oh Noes!' stuff, just expressing what some of you seem to either be willfuly ignoring or don't wish to write.

I have to agree, but to me food is food. If im starving and looking for my next meal I wont be too picky from where and who I get it. Its the choice of each individual person to decide whether or not it is what they want. They should force their personal view on others.

I like my bacon!!!!!!!!!

[Dronetek]

No, they are performing a rather transparent political stunt under the guise of charity.

So transparent, that no one but you sees it.

[Jobu]

Beggars can't be choosers.

[akd]

So transparent, that no one but you sees it.

You need to learn some serious critical thinking skills if you believe thier intent is, at heart, charitable rather than political. Making political statements at the expense of the weakest members of society is shameful. I don't think this is at heart a PC issue, but a question as to whether groups should be allowed to use charity to manipulate people for political purposes, ala Hamas and Hezbollah. I'm certainly as fed up with others with alot of the PC bullsh!t coming out of France lately, but using charity in this way crosses a line that is very important to me personally (as it should anyone who believes their values are rooted in a Christian ethic).



Pollies in the soup over meals for charity

Date: January 4 2007

Kim Willsher in Paris


PORK soup is back on the menu for homeless people in Paris after a judge ruled it could not be deemed racist.

Organisers of soup kitchens linked to extreme right-wing groups overturned a ban imposed by the city authorities out of fear that its handouts discriminated against Jews and Muslims.

Police had shut down food distributions by Solidarite des Francais, whose initials are the same of those of the homeless group Sans Domicile Fixe, because of alleged xenophobia and fears of protests.

But the judge at the administrative tribunal in Paris decided that as there was no evidence the SDF had refused to serve Jews and Muslims, who do not eat pork for religious reasons, it could not be accused of discriminating against them. The city's police prefecture was ordered to pay €1000 ($1666) in costs to the group.

In a statement, Roger Bonnivard, the group's president, said: "After weeks of dirty manoeuvres, intimidation, harassment, all kinds of pressure, and despite a new ban, the Paris police authorities now have to adhere to the decision. There are no legal grounds allowing anyone to ban pig soup."

Groups across the country associated with a right-wing organisation called Bloc Identitaire have been handing out "soupe au cochon" since 2004.

Last winter Fabienne Keller, the mayor of Strasbourg, justified banning the soup kitchens saying: "Schemes with racial subtexts must be denounced."

The groups insist that they are only serving traditional Gallic fare to "our own". Pork soup is a staple of the French pastoral heartland from which, nationalists say, all true French spring.

However, the SDF website leaves no doubt about the group's intentions.

As well as the recipe for pork soup it advises how it should be served - with bread and wine - in a "Gallic atmosphere" with no queues.

"The only condition to eat with us: to eat pig," it reads, concluding: "Attention, cheese, dessert, coffee, clothes, snacks go with the pig soup: no pig soup, no dessert. The only rule of our action: our own before the others."

Paris city hall and the police refused to comment on the ruling.


Real live Soup Nazis! :)

[Mr. JOSHUA]

I just HATE the double standards. PC is going to end the world, and we're stupid enough to keep feeding the fires of idiodicy...
Case in point...

MINNEAPOLIS - Some Muslim cab drivers are refusing service to a growing number of passengers with alcohol or dogs, and officials at Minneapolis-St. Paul International airport are trying to fight it.
"Our expectation is that if you're going to be driving a taxi at the airport, you need to provide service to anybody who wants it," said Patrick Hogan, spokesman for the Metropolitan Airport Commission.
Each month, about 100 people are denied cab service at the airport, and refusals for religious reasons have grown in recent months, airport officials said. About three-quarters of the 900 taxi drivers at the airport are Somali, many of them Muslim.


Are you listening to Savage Vets&Vettes?

[2Sheds_Jackson]

You need to learn some serious critical thinking skills if you believe thier intent is, at heart, charitable rather than political. Making political statements at the expense of the weakest members of society is shameful. I don't think this is at heart a PC issue, but a question as to whether groups should be allowed to use charity to manipulate people for political purposes, ala Hamas and Hezbollah. I'm certainly as fed up with others with alot of the PC bullsh!t coming out of France lately, but using charity in this way crosses a line that is very important to me personally (as it should anyone who believes their values are rooted in a Christian ethic).



Intent is irrelevant. You're actually suggesting that charities be forced to serve culturally sensitive meals. You're putting the burden onto those supplying the charity rather than those receiving it? That's crazy. There is no end to the requirements that can be heaped upon them from any religious group you can name, not to mention vegetarians, vegans, etc. etc. ...without end. What about those who based on their worship of money, will only accept meals consisting of prime rib and served on fine china? If I move to France, can I demand to be fed only hotdogs and hamburgers? Who is to decide which religious or cultural demands are silly and which are not silly? Using your system, they would all have to be accommodated, since it's all in the eye of the beholder.

This is charity - if people want to eat the meals of their choice, then they shouldn't depend upon a 3rd party to supply it for them. If people are unhappy with it, they should work to get themselves off charity and into living the life of their choice. Good god, talk about critical thinking skills - what has happened to common sense? Don't look a gift pig in the snout.

[VetsandVettes]

Are you listening to Savage Vets&Vettes?

Sorry? I must be missing something, not sure who Savage is.
The interesting part to me was this excerpt from the story that ties clothes to the consumption of swine...

"The only condition to eat with us: to eat pig," it reads, concluding: "Attention, cheese, dessert, coffee, clothes, snacks go with the pig soup: no pig soup, no dessert. The only rule of our action: our own before the others."

I think back to Vincent Vega and Jule's conversation on the topic of eating pig. Heh heh...
Me, I LOVE bacon!

[Wodan]

thats so weird


I mean they want to outlaw charity for some kind of people:

"they are evil nazis, we can´t allow them to help poor people!!!"


omfg

can it get any sicker?

Thats even more than orwell could have imagined!

[Mr. JOSHUA]

Sorry? I must be missing something, not sure who Savage is.




Michael Savage, the REAL GREAT AMERICAN.

michaelsavage.com (http://michaelsavage,com)

He was just talking about that last night and about how they should accustom themselves to our culture and society as we would have to if we went to live in an islamic nation.

[VetsandVettes]

Michael Savage, the REAL GREAT AMERICAN.

michaelsavage.com (http://michaelsavage,com)

He was just talking about that last night and about how they should accustom themselves to our culture and society as we would have to if we went to live in an islamic nation.


Linky brokee but I cut/pasted it and read some of the stuff. Refreshing.
The biggest problem up here is that the government is SO PC that the first thing anyone from some craphole country that lands here does is to try to reform Canada into the very place they escaped from, and our laws encourage this. Look at Quebec...

[AK74]

I can imagine the retards going to Japan and protesting about pork soup there.

[Mr. JOSHUA]

Linky brokee but I cut/pasted it and read some of the stuff. Refreshing.
The biggest problem up here is that the government is SO PC that the first thing anyone from some craphole country that lands here does is to try to reform Canada into the very place they escaped from, and our laws encourage this. Look at Quebec...


No freakin' way, my country is the same way, only we are a little further into the hole with so-called conservatives pushing amnesty and a whole bag of goodies for the illegals.


This is gonna be sweet, its the start of being rewarded for breaking the law, later today I'm gonna smoke pot in front of a cop and hopefully get some free healthcare or food stamps.

[Thor]

No, they are performing a rather transparent political stunt under the guise of charity.
Nope. This is just regular european food.


And pork is everywhere. Even if a poor mideasterner decides to order a hamburger he will consume some pork with it as they fry bacon on the same board as the hamburger.

[AK74]

Nope. This is just regular european food.


And pork is everywhere. Even if a poor mideasterner decides to order a hamburger he will consume some pork with it as they fry bacon on the same board as the hamburger.

Put noodles in the pork soup and you get Japanese Ramen.

Better than the burger and fries i guess?

[VetsandVettes]

No freakin' way, my country is the same way, only we are a little further into the hole with so-called conservatives pushing amnesty and a whole bag of goodies for the illegals.


This is gonna be sweet, its the start of being rewarded for breaking the law, later today I'm gonna smoke pot in front of a cop and hopefully get some free healthcare or food stamps.

And whose tax dollars pay for it all? We had a thing happening here where the Liberals were importing huge numbers of immigrants WITHOUT proper security clearences as long as they promised to vote Liberal. Beat that.
Up here, smoking pot in front of a cop likely won't result in much uproar. In this month's MAXIM they describe buying buds in the head shops in Vancouver...

[Loki77]

No, they are performing a rather transparent political stunt under the guise of charity.
Maybe...








However, they are a private charity's group.
The mayor of Paris is a socialist. That explains its opposition the judicial decision.

[Kaplanr]

Sorry? I must be missing something, not sure who Savage is.
The interesting part to me was this excerpt from the story that ties clothes to the consumption of swine...

"The only condition to eat with us: to eat pig," it reads, concluding: "Attention, cheese, dessert, coffee, clothes, snacks go with the pig soup: no pig soup, no dessert. The only rule of our action: our own before the others."

I think back to Vincent Vega and Jule's conversation on the topic of eating pig. Heh heh...
Me, I LOVE bacon!


It doesn't strike any of you retread do-gooders that they're being a tad paternalisitc - No soup, no dessert. It's designed entirely to insult and exclude.

[Jobu]

You can't have any pudding if you don't eat your meat.

[AK74]

It doesn't strike any of you retread do-gooders that they're being a tad paternalisitc - No soup, no dessert. It's designed entirely to insult and exclude.

Anything for food and survival i guess.

Not everyone has enough energy for Anger.

You can starve yourself becaue your "angry" , go on, your choice.rofl

[Lazy Lob]

Liver, tripe, kidneys, black pud, offal...hmmmmm. Don't understand why people don't like ze pork. With baked apples, mustard and a pint of that apple nectar.

[VetsandVettes]

It doesn't strike any of you retread do-gooders that they're being a tad paternalisitc - No soup, no dessert. It's designed entirely to insult and exclude.

That's what I meant by no soup no CLOTHES...
What the hell is a retread do-gooder? You must have me confused with someone who DOESN'T drive around in his Corvette convertible shooting road signs drinking beer..
Heh heh. Just kidding...

[Thor]

It's designed entirely to insult and exclude.
This is what you get in a christian country.


I would never go to Israel/Iran and start demanding that there should be bacon in the soups served there.

[AK74]

Liver, tripe, kidneys, black pud, offal...hmmmmm. Don't understand why people don't like ze pork. With baked apples, mustard and a pint of that apple nectar.

Dont forget the Bones, makes a good soup base for Ramen.woot

[VetsandVettes]

This is what you get in a christian country.


I would never go to Israel/Iran and start demanding that there should be bacon in the soups served there.

Like I say, it's a one-way street. We have had the rule at our Legions since forever that you don't wear a hat while in the Legion out of respect for the war veterans. So what happens? Someone has to have a challenge to wear their turban in the Legion...

[Mr. JOSHUA]

And whose tax dollars pay for it all? We had a thing happening here where the Liberals were importing huge numbers of immigrants WITHOUT proper security clearences as long as they promised to vote Liberal. Beat that.
Up here, smoking pot in front of a cop likely won't result in much uproar. In this month's MAXIM they describe buying buds in the head shops in Vancouver...


OK, OK, down here, the media and the gov't are turning a blind eye to the illegal immigrant criminal statistics, even though there are a number of well known crimes that have occurred (Shea Stadium Gang Rape-NY actress murder), no, no, they all come to work.

Vets, we have the same head shops up and down the west coast, supposedly only for the med mj people, but even MTV has done reports on how potheads go there for their fix.

But again, you're a crazy right winger if you dare question the honest pot movement!

[VetsandVettes]

It just about went legal here a while back, so nobody really cares a lot about small amounts. Now they are working on some kind of system to apply impaired driving for pot the same way they do for booze, with the same penalties. Not sure how they will overcome the burden of proof thing without a blood sample but...
Stoned people tend to order pizza rather than drive through a crowded bus stop like a drunk but...
Um, what were we talking about again? Oh yeah! Smoking pot...
Me so hungry.

[Loki77]

Seriously. I mean, a shame for the Muslim and Jewish homeless of France, but political goals and ideals aside, for a starving man on the street, a meal is still a meal.

but, many homeless in France are white Middle-Class....
http://img129.imageshack.us/img129/5479/02middleclassxn2.jpg

[Critter]

My question is, Who made the complaint in the first place?

[Lazy Lob]

but, many homeless in France are white Middle-Class....
http://img129.imageshack.us/img129/5479/02middleclassxn2.jpg

Who also paid their taxes.

[Mr. JOSHUA]

It just about went legal here a while back, so nobody really cares a lot about small amounts. Now they are working on some kind of system to apply impaired driving for pot the same way they do for booze, with the same penalties. Not sure how they will overcome the burden of proof thing without a blood sample but...
Stoned people tend to order pizza rather than drive through a crowded bus stop like a drunk but...
Um, what were we talking about again? Oh yeah! Smoking pot...
Me so hungry.


Hey now, I put it to my mouth, but I didn't inhale....

[tsuri]

but, many homeless in Paris are white Middle-Class....
You cant´afford most rents with an average wage in Paris. Which is the reason for the new law.

I never understood why it is problematic for these people to hand out pork soup. Our local charity institutions do not offer a vegetarian or religious alternative either as far as I am informed.
If someone is foolish enough to put religious rules before his own survival, then it is not the fault of those who offer him something to eat.

Of course the pork only ruling is a provocation but they honestly give out food and I see no reason for the state to interfere. If Muslims feel excluded, they should eat there just to tease em.

[annihilation]

My question is in stiuations like this or in the one mentioned about wearing a hat in the legionaire. How do you decide which one is the one that has to be respected? How do you come about that that group has more rights over the traditions (be it just as long in some cases) of another group? How can we decide this is right and this wrong and must be changed?

Continues to enforce my theory that people need to start minding their own business more.

[Loki77]

My question is, Who made the complaint in the first place?
In first place. I'm not french.
I find that the Muslim community. But, I don't have certainty.







However, I comply with the judicial ruling, because the charity's group that serves to pork soup is private. The Muslim community don't have the right of protest. It is not the French government that serve the pork soup.

[akd]

Y'all miss the part about feeding "their own" first, or not letting people have ANY food unless they first consume pork?

Charitable status is usually conferred on a group by the government, allowing them to be exempt from some or all taxes. By conferring this status, the government affirms that their actions are both charitable (to the benefit of society) and not political in nature, or that there is at least a line between the two. The appropiate tack to take would be to have the group stripped of their charitable status for participating in activities that select people for benefit because of race and creed rather than need and for conducting political activities under the guise of helping the homeless.

At least that is what would happen in the U.S. I'm not sure what the laws are pertaining to charitable organizations in France. A city ordinance was obviously the simple, but not very legal way, to immediately target the organization's activities. Not a smart move and it backfired, probably emboldening the group step up their activities trying to foster social discord under the pretext of helping hungry people.

This is exactly the same MO as Hamas and Hezbollah and their "charitable" arms (although I would afford both of their charitable activities as having more honor than this). The same people trying to paint these people as Good Samiratans are probably the first to cry foul at anything those Ismalic fundementalist/terrorist organizations do in the name of charity.

Bigotry.

[Loki77]

Bigotry.
It be "bigotry and racist" for the Muslim community to serve pork soup for homeless. However, the judicial ruling led the group's right of choose what to serve for homeless.

Solidarité of Français (SDF) alleged that pork soup is part of the French cousine. I respect the Muslim religion, but they cannot impose their values to a charity's private group.

If the Muslims don't want to violate their dietary laws, there is nothing forcing them to eat the pork soup. And their communities are free to open their own soup kitchen offering food to their own homeless.

[LRPV]

No, they are performing a rather transparent political stunt under the guise of charity.

Sorry, but I can't see this as a stunt. Let's gather some facts...any French here? Can you tell us whether pork soup is as stated by the providers a 'traditional' French soup? Is pork cheaper meat in France?

The charity organisations are likely to go for the largest quantity of cheap meals it can provide. eg not roast meat and 3 vegetables on a plate per person.

[LRPV]

It doesn't strike any of you retread do-gooders that they're being a tad paternalisitc - No soup, no dessert. It's designed entirely to insult and exclude.

Settle petal....how many Jews in France are on the breadline and awaiting a bowl of soup? Thats what the community is there for, to help and aid as necessary, yes? So one charity group provides for non-kosher and non-halal foods. Whats the big deal? Relax and let it go, it's not worth getting high blood pressure over.:hug:

[Mr Gently Benevolent]

I doubt that Pork is the cheapest protein available as a soup ingredient, the beef stock concentrate which most large catering operations use in is very cheap indeed, pork concentrate is slightly more expensive and rarely derives from French sources, mostly Dutch and Danish sources. I base the above on fact as the soup stocks that we sell are costed in the following order Veal, Pork, Beef and Chicken and are all produced in France.

[Lazy Lob]

I doubt that Pork is the cheapest protein available as a soup ingredient, the beef stock concentrate which most large catering operations use in is very cheap indeed, pork concentrate is slightly more expensive and rarely derives from French sources, mostly Dutch and Danish sources. I base the above on fact as the soup stocks that we sell are costed in the following order Veal, Pork, Beef and Chicken and are all produced in France.

With a bit of "je ne sais quoi" added?

[Bandeirante]

Porks are nutritious and delicious !

[Loki77]

I doubt that Pork is the cheapest protein available as a soup ingredient, the beef stock concentrate which most large catering operations use in is very cheap indeed, pork concentrate is slightly more expensive and rarely derives from French sources, mostly Dutch and Danish sources. I base the above on fact as the soup stocks that we sell are costed in the following order Veal, Pork, Beef and Chicken and are all produced in France.
This isn't a government program...
....these are private groups with ties to the right that know exactly what they're doing...(charity!)

[Ivan le Fou]

It is conspiracy!!! They want to starve minorities!! It's a programmed genocide!! :cantbeli:


There are many, but not many enough, groups of people doing charity in France. Helping homeless, the poor, etc... by giving clothes, food, and place were to sleep. Such as: Restaux du Coeur, Soupe Populaire, Les Petites Soeurs des Pauvres, etc...

This one, SDF (which is als a term meaning Sans Domicile Fixe => homeless) is just another group.

If one is not happy with the menu, he just have to go away and find somebody else to give him food.


Some times it just remind me some of those religious congregations, who refuse to go to the hospital, who don't want to receive blood, who don't want to receive treatments, etc... because of their religion.

[gilgoul]

inf_uckingsane

De Villepin, an Aristocrat member of a supposedly conservative party, guess the program of the communists then :)

[Ivan le Fou]

De Villepin, an Aristocrat member of a supposedly conservative party, guess the program of the communists then :)


They all have the same program! p-)

[gilgoul]

By the way, the mess around this charity is simply PCness brought to the absurd. Some Frenchmen want to cater for people their own way, what's the big deal, it is a clear statement to all the minorities, including mine, that being French implies identifying with the cultural make of the country, in France, food is a big part of it.
Nobody forces French jews and muslims to take an oath on a slice of ham, there is usually great respect and tolerance for others traditions as long as it doesn't affect everybody else, and it is not a non recognized cult sect (there is a weird anti sect fear and hate in France).
If this is racist, then I don't know how offering Geffiltefish to my gentile guests at any jewish holiday should be considered ;)

[helomech]

Free food?I'm on it like a hobo on a ham sandwhich.For crying out loud people they're feeding homeless people,no need to get carried away with it...

[Zoomie]

I guess we all spoke too soon because Pork is now racist afterall!

French Judge: Don't Let Them Eat Pork Soup

Saturday, January 06, 2007
http://www.foxnews.com/images/service_ap_36.gif
PARIS — A top French judge ruled that an extreme-right group cannot serve pork soup to the needy, saying the charitable handouts aim to discriminate against Muslims and Jews who don’t eat pork because of their faith.
Judge Christian Vigouroux of the Council of State, the country’s highest administrative body, said late Friday that such giveaways by the far-right group Solidarity of the French threaten public order. His ruling approved a decision by Paris police to refuse permits to the group on the grounds that such handouts could spark angry reactions.
France is home to more than 5 million Muslims and some 600,000 Jews. Both Islam and Judaism prohibit eating pork, and Vigouroux said the group had shown “a clearly discriminatory goal” with its charity.
Solidarity of the French was just one of several far-fight groups that began distributing pork soup across France over the last four years. Critics contend the giveaway of pork soup is a far-right ploy to draw support for their efforts to defend against perceived threats to European culture.
Far-right groups defend the soup as nothing more than an age-old staple of the rural heartland from which all the French, at least in the national imagination, are said to spring. “Pork-fat soup is traditionally the soup of the poor because it provides complete nourishment,” said Bruno Le Griel, a lawyer for the group.
Le Griel argued that no needy Jew or Muslim was forced to consume the pork soup. But the judge said the group’s Web site indicated it was a policy to refuse dessert to anyone who did not eat some soup first.
Source (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,242208,00.html)

[sferrin]

It doesn't strike any of you retread do-gooders that they're being a tad paternalisitc - No soup, no dessert. It's designed entirely to insult and exclude.


Boo hoo. Nobody is forcing them to eat it.

[Snoshi]

Boo hoo. Nobody is forcing them to eat it.

Thats not the point... The point is that starving and homeless Jews and the Muslims wont be able to eat this meal..

[Ivan le Fou]

They CAN eat this meal. They actuelly can.

But they won't because of their religion.


You can say "someone can't eat something" when this meal threaten the life of the person.

They won't die if they eat pork.

But they will die if they don't eat.

[stephane from Paris]

Thats not the point... The point is that starving and homeless Jews and the Muslims wont be able to eat this meal..

And????
40% of homeless are french origin
40/50% are christians foreigners
20/10% are muslims
jews? i don't know if there's anyone

the socialists bastards who owns actually the Town Concil wins again, but they should help really homeless peoples instead to gives millions to their friendly associations (gays, anti racist, culturals...).

[Wodan]

Jews are allowed to eat pig, as long as they don´t pay retail for it!

[Loki77]

Thats not the point... The point is that starving and homeless Jews and the Muslims wont be able to eat this meal..

No one is putting a gun in the backs of the Muslims and Jews forcing them to eat pork soup. If these groups are so concerned about dietary laws, let them open their own charity kitchens where they can serve their own homeless. The closing down of these kitchens serves no purpose in my opinion.






How long before pork is banned in France completely?

[Hollis]

Thats not the point... The point is that starving and homeless Jews and the Muslims wont be able to eat this meal..


Snoshi, Starving creates a exemption, allowing one to eat non-kosher in Halacha. Judaism does not demand people become shahids.

[Lazy Lob]

Is that why Nasrallah and Sadr are such fat b£$t€rds?

Forgot and ol Kim baby. They should preach.



........oh they do. Fingers in the air and all.

[alfigel]

Snoshi, Starving creates a exemption, allowing one to eat non-kosher in Halacha. Judaism does not demand people become shahids.

This doesn't apply for Muslims.

And that's the point: while nobody's forced to eat there, it's clearly discriminating against people who don't eat pork. And there is basically only one group to which this applies, and that it the Muslim community (as you already mentioned, Jews are allowed to break the law of not being allowed to eat pork when it's a matter of life and death). What we can conclude from this is that serving pork and making the serving of more food depend on actually eating that pork soup is clearly discriminating against Muslims.

And just in case you guys haven't realized it yet: discrimination on religious grounds is illegal, both in France and basically the whole EU. Everyone, no matter what religion the person belongs to, is allowed to freely exercise his/her religion, and not having any disadvantages from it.

I'm already waiting for the anti-EU anti-anti-discrimination bashing... :roll:

[turan8]

This doesn't apply for Muslims.

And that's the point: while nobody's forced to eat there, it's clearly discriminating against people who don't eat pork. And there is basically only one group to which this applies, and that it the Muslim community (as you already mentioned, Jews are allowed to break the law of not being allowed to eat pork when it's a matter of life and death). What we can conclude from this is that serving pork and making the serving of more food depend on actually eating that pork soup is clearly discriminating against Muslims.

And just in case you guys haven't realized it yet: discrimination on religious grounds is illegal, both in France and basically the whole EU. Everyone, no matter what religion the person belongs to, is allowed to freely exercise his/her religion, and not having any disadvantages from it.

I'm already waiting for the anti-EU anti-anti-discrimination bashing... :roll:

This is the best logic on this topic I've seen so far.

[Thor]

Why hasn't anyone payed attention to the Hindus? Just imagine all the soups they can't eat!

[Lazy Lob]

This doesn't apply for Muslims.

And that's the point: while nobody's forced to eat there, it's clearly discriminating against people who don't eat pork. And there is basically only one group to which this applies, and that it the Muslim community (as you already mentioned, Jews are allowed to break the law of not being allowed to eat pork when it's a matter of life and death). What we can conclude from this is that serving pork and making the serving of more food depend on actually eating that pork soup is clearly discriminating against Muslims.

And just in case you guys haven't realized it yet: discrimination on religious grounds is illegal, both in France and basically the whole EU. Everyone, no matter what religion the person belongs to, is allowed to freely exercise his/her religion, and not having any disadvantages from it.

I'm already waiting for the anti-EU anti-anti-discrimination bashing... :roll:

What about............lets see...oooh yeah...diabetes .. Is porcine insulin permitted? Oh, bugger it is. Lets find a new set of rules to be able to get around it. What a load of codswollop.

You can nitpick through this crap if you want, but this is getting pathetic. Yes, no but yes…like Vicky Pollard.


BTW its called politics. Grow up.

[Ivan le Fou]

Why hasn't anyone payed attention to the Hindus? Just imagine all the soups they can't eat!

Because there are not many Hindus in France... ;)

[Hollis]

It is a charity and it is the givers choice. It may not be the best choice or a choice that wins friends.

If people had to eat it, or were force to eat it, then I would strongly question it. I doubt they are the only soup kitchen in France.

Personally why create conflict when you don't have too.

Also what about vegetarians?........ again free choice is still there.

BTW some Muslims do eat pork, drink alcoholic beverages and miss out on some other requirements of Islam.

[alfigel]

BTW some Muslims do eat pork, drink alcoholic beverages and miss out on some other requirements of Islam.

Some Muslims also kill US-american soldiers, other muslims or are gay. Can we draw any conclusions from these observations that apply to all Muslims? No.

[roland]

Thats not the point... The point is that starving and homeless Jews and the Muslims wont be able to eat this meal..

And why that ? Jews and Muslims have teeth like others.
If they starve they'll eat it like others.
Only those too retarded by superstition will die of starvation, that's darwinism at work.
I don't like racists but clever Muslim or Jews would eat this soup just to piss those far-right idiots.

[Elmo]

And why that ? Jews and Muslims have teeth like others.
If they starve they'll eat it like others.
Only those too retarded by superstition will die of starvation, that's darwinism at work.
I don't like racists but clever Muslim or Jews would eat this soup just to piss those far-right idiots.

"I don't like racists but..."

Chances are you have interesting conversations in real life...are you serious?
If you are, please change your views. You embarrass yourself.

[roland]

"I don't like racists but..."

Chances are you have interesting conversations in real life...are you serious?
If you are, please change your views. You embarrass yourself.

What view ? that not eating pork is just freakin superstition ? no I won't change my view on that and I'm not embarassed.

[Thor]

Aren't jews forbidden to eat shellfish as well?

You can go on and on like this, it doesn't make sense.

[Elmo]

What view ? that not eating pork is just freakin superstition ? no I won't change my view on that and I'm not embarassed.

Well, there are what, 6 billion people inhabiting this planet and they have different value systems. Their cultures differ. Some things may sound funny to you, and you may find yourself puzzled about some cultural aspects. Fine.

But when you start labeling things as products of superstition, you make yourself
look...dumb. You should at least recognize that your views are arrogantly ethnocentric and you should reconsider your notions and find out about us humans as cultured beings and what that means in terms of similarities and differences.

[alfigel]

Aren't jews forbidden to eat shellfish as well?

You can go on and on like this, it doesn't make sense.

In fact, it does make sense. Modern nutritional science came to interesting conclusions that resemble the rules of Kashrut in many ways. One prominent is the rule not to eat meat and dairy products together. What nutritional science found out was that eating meat and dairy products together retards and inhibits the process of digestion.

[Thor]

In fact, it does make sense. Modern nutritional science came to interesting conclusions that resemble the rules of Kashrut in many ways. One prominent is the rule not to eat meat and dairy products together. What nutritional science found out was that eating meat and dairy products together retards and inhibits the process of digestion.
Not what I was refering to. My point was that if you adjust everything to the traditions of different desert tribes, hindus, vegetarians, vegans etc. it would mean potato soup for everyone.

But as you brought it up, the rules make very little make sense beyond the obvious parts. For instance it forbids consumption of fruit from trees which are less than four years old, but it doesn't forbid consumption of known unhealthy seeds, vegetables, fruits etc.

About digestion, everyone knows that cheese and such isn't exactly the most easily digested food, the same goes for steaks. It's easy to understand that those two combined are harder to digest than let's say a carrot. This doesn't change the fact that most people don't have any digestive problems, some need protein-rich food, and others just enjoy a good heavy meal.

When it comes to pork one must understand that they've always had great hygienic problems in southern regions and hence they have different experiences. One example is the occurrence of trichinosis, a parasitic disease that traditionally is common in hot and underdeveloped regions were animals eat garbage and meat is served undercooked. Up here we've never had much problem with it, but in places like the mid east it has always been the opposite way (especially with pigs).

[alfigel]

Not what I was refering to. My point was that if you adjust everything to the traditions of different desert tribes, hindus, vegetarians, vegans etc. it would mean potato soup for everyone.

That's not the point. The point is that Muslims are significantly large minority in France, and also one of the few minorities with a really strict dietary law. And this very fact is exploited to discriminate against Muslims. It's not simply about "traditions", it's a matter of respect towards other religions and their habits and beliefs.

[Lazy Lob]

That's not the point. The point is that Muslims are significantly large minority in France, and also one of the few minorities with a really strict dietary law. And this very fact is exploited to discriminate against Muslims. It's not simply about "traditions", it's a matter of respect towards other religions and their habits and beliefs.

Thor’s point is correct and very much to the point.

You are confusing the word “respect” with the actions of a right wing charity. Respect is earned not given and is a word that gets banded about a bit too often. Only a fool would respect some one else’s belief just because it’s their belief. That sort of behaviour breeds stagnation within any society. Lack of respect does not go hand in hand with insulting behaviour; but not giving respect just “because” one should is a current Western trait which I think we should cherish.

Just like the word “racist” or nazi tends to be used by the PC crowd when they don’t want a counter argument and is meant as an insult, same goes with "respect". And whilst we argue our self hate is slowly chipping away at our principles of tolerance. They aren’t perfect but they are some of the most tolerant.

There are religious charities that only give to their own, Muslim ones seem to be flourishing but they aren’t the only ones. There’s another thread in this forum about Muslim cabbies in some US airport that won’t pick clients with guide dogs or alcohol. What sort of discriminatory behaviour is that? The basis of this discrimination is in their book of beliefs whilst this small group in the charity in question are small and not representative of society as a whole.

[alfigel]

Respect is earned not given and is a word that gets banded about a bit too often. Only a fool would respect some one else’s belief just because it’s their belief.

I think you people force your own definition of respect too much into this kind of discussions. Wikipedia describes one interpretation of respect as such:

Respect can refer to the objective, unbiased consideration and regard for rights, values, beliefs and property. Kant's categorical imperative, as well as expressing a common understanding of civilization, incorporates the concept of respect.
When you consider this exemplary definition of respect, do you still want to assert that respect has to be earned? If yes, then you are still to earn my respect for your property, and until you achieve that, I will take a crap on your lawn everytime I walk by your house (just to clarify that: I'm not going to do that, I only used this as an exaggerated illustration of the consequences of your assertion). So, while I think we agree that there are different views on what respect is, yours is definitely an anti-humanistic one, and Immanuel Kant would agree with me.

[aartamen]

a homeless observant jew is in itself a very funny joke, the jewish community is universally very charitable to its members

[Thor]

That's not the point. The point is that Muslims are significantly large minority in France...
So what you're really saying is that it's all about one certain group, but that it's ok to discriminate against other smaller groups. And you know what, I bet there are just as many vegetarians in France as there are mohammedans.


...it's not simply about "traditions", it's a matter of respect towards other religions and their habits and beliefs.
This is very simple: it's their taboo, not mine. Free societies don't ban products because members of certain religions demand it.

[Thor]

a homeless observant jew is in itself a very funny joke, the jewish community is universally very charitable to its members
Homelessness is not really about lack of social support. Most often it's a consequence of drug abuse and mental problems. Many times the only way to get people like that off the street is to institutionalise them.

[alfigel]

So what you're really saying is that it's all about one certain group, but that it's ok to discriminate against other smaller groups. And you know what, I bet there are just as many vegetarians in France as there are mohammedans.

Homeless vegetarians are about as common as homeless Jews. And remember, Vegetarianism is not a religion, but Judaism and Islam are.


This is very simple: it's their taboo, not mine. Free societies don't ban products because members of certain religions demand it.
Free societies don't discriminate against religions. And it's not that non-halal/kosher food was banned by the Paris city council, it was decided that making the serving of more food depend on whether the homeless person eats the first served, non-halal/kosher food, would be discriminating against Muslims and Jews.

[LaoSexMachine]

I remember after Hurricane Katrina there were white supremicist group who were only trying to help white people. Needless to say their donations and assistant was turn down by the people they were trying to help.

[Lazy Lob]

I think you people force your own definition of respect too much into this kind of discussions. Wikipedia describes one interpretation of respect as such:

When you consider this exemplary definition of respect, do you still want to assert that respect has to be earned? If yes, then you are still to earn my respect for your property, and until you achieve that, I will take a crap on your lawn everytime I walk by your house (just to clarify that: I'm not going to do that, I only used this as an exaggerated illustration of the consequences of your assertion). So, while I think we agree that there are different views on what respect is, yours is definitely an anti-humanistic one, and Immanuel Kant would agree with me.

So now I’m “anti-humanistic”, your adjectives are getting longer. Do these types of labels make you feel better, even superior? I bet they do, all warm and fuzzy. You replace one word for another. “Consideration” for “respect” with still no clear definition what you mean and why one side has to comply while the other doesn’t.

Crapping on someone’s lawn? Well, that is getting bellicose. Like kicking someone in the nuts. You’re confusing not accepting someone else’s beliefs (respect or "considered" and rejected if you like) with direct physical abuse. You can call my lawn a piece of crap but don’t come close.

You tried to compare general society to a right wing charity by the use of the word “respect”. The process of respect within any society has to be earned. Your take on it is a best PC at worse, pathetic. You're compartmentalising life into little packets not realising that does not work. Life is too short for that sort of shyte.

BTW Kant is dead and life, as definitions move on.

[alfigel]

So now I’m “anti-humanistic”, your adjectives are getting longer. Do these types of labels make you feel better, even superior?

You don't even know what humanism is without looking it up. So shut up. Your position is clearly anti-humanistic. And you didn't even understand the most simple analogies. You're simply unable to discuss in a proper way, so there's no point in continuing this. I'm out of this thread.

[Lazy Lob]

You don't even know what humanism is without looking it up. So shut up. Your position is clearly anti-humanistic. And you didn't even understand the most simple analogies. You're simply unable to discuss in a proper way, so there's no point in continuing this. I'm out of this thread.

Wilco...............

[tanks_alot]

Bottom line is that if we were reading an article about a charity movement in say, Iran for example, that the prerequisite for jews and christians to get help from them is to commit a sin in regards to their religion, no matter how ridiculous that sin might be in your eyes, we would all be farting out of our ears about the the intolerant iranians going at it again.

[akd]

Homelessness is not really about lack of social support. Most often it's a consequence of drug abuse and mental problems. Many times the only way to get people like that off the street is to institutionalise them.

That is not true. Chronic homelessness is mostly a consequence of drug abuse and mental problems, but at any given time there are more people homeless for social/work reasons, and most prevalent among that group are single women with children.

Also, racist and Nazi may be thrown around quite a bit, but so is "PC," usually to try and marginalize/deflect accusations of exclusion or targeting of actions as being only perceived or of no real consequence (and usually when the defender sides with and wants to support the real and intended consequences). Someone who believes in true charity (particularly true charity as defined in the Jewish/Christian/Muslim tradition) sees an immediate conflict in a conscious choice to help people in need through a means that excludes a segment of the needy. If they truely wished to help as many of the needy as possible, why would they make that choice? Furthermore, if that choice were only practical in nature (a cheap and nutritious food), why create rules that do not allow people to have ANY food unless they consume one specific item offered by the charity first? Shouldn't a charitable group's aim be to help feed as many starving people as possible by whatever means they have at hand?

By the way, "right-wing charity" is a pretty amusing oxymoron. There are no right-wing or left-wing charities, as their extreme positions and exclusionary attitudes are in direct conflict with performing acts of charity. If you must use the term, then I will concede that the Nazi Party was a right-wing charity. They confiscated the savings, possesions and property of millions, then gave it away in a grand act of charity, but only charity to "their own."

[roland]

Well, there are what, 6 billion people inhabiting this planet and they have different value systems. Their cultures differ. Some things may sound funny to you, and you may find yourself puzzled about some cultural aspects. Fine.

no problem with that



But when you start labeling things as products of superstition, you make yourself
look...dumb. You should at least recognize that your views are arrogantly ethnocentric and you should reconsider your notions and find out about us humans as cultured beings and what that means in terms of similarities and differences.

man when I say it's superstition it's because it is and I can easily prove it:
- if pork was bad for human, first it will be forbidden, in our rich society that's not as if we had no choice,
- human eat pork since well .. I guess the beginning of humanity. If it was bad we would be aware of it by now. Take the Chinese. If pork was bad they wouldn't be one billion today, even I'll venture to say that if they did not eat pork they would be less numerous since it is one of the most efficient way to get protein and is very valuable in densely populated society.

So face it, saying that pork is bad is just that: superstition. It's simple truth and truth is not arrogant or ethnocentric it's just truth.

This being said, what's also true is that the pork is biologically closer to human than other animals and it eat anything, that make it ****e to give some serious deseases. Some special care must be taken in how it's fed, killed and cooked specially in warm and primitive countries. That's why if God exists, He was probably wise to say to human that pork is bad because in primitive society like in the time holy books were written, it was dangerous.
But those commandment are today obsolete because we know now how to deal with the risk. Again that's not an opinion that's a fact.

Now it's not as if this superstition was like human sacrifice. No big deal as long as it stays quiet much like a tradition. I can understand and respect traditions and customs when not in contradiction with ours.
But the trouble is that religious bigots don't consider this kind of thing as just a tradition and are good to make drama of anything. That's why it's good to tone them down as often as possible and remind them some reality.

[Litti]

First of all you need to look at the background of this organization. It has, without a doubt, racist elements. Then you look at this "charity" they have put together and it doesnt really take a rocket scientist to see that they are pushing their own agenda.

Granted, some homeless people will receive food which is always a good thing. But it sickens me that people use society´s weakest individuals in order to promote their own ideas.

[Loki77]

What we can conclude from this is that serving pork and making the serving of more food depend on actually eating that pork soup is clearly discriminating against Muslims.


Sir, I don't agree...
..... France is a democratic country.The law is the same for everyone. If Muslim are so concerned about dietary laws, let them open their own charity kitchens where they can serve their own homeless.

[Loki77]

First of all you need to look at the background of this organization. It has, without a doubt, racist elements. Then you look at this "charity" they have put together and it doesnt really take a rocket scientist to see that they are pushing their own agenda.

Granted, some homeless people will receive food which is always a good thing. But it sickens me that people use society´s weakest individuals in order to promote their own ideas.
What can you say about the Muslim charities that only give to Muslim populations?

[Ivan le Fou]

What can you say about the Muslim charities that only give to Muslim populations?


It is comunotarism. I guess.