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eugenlitwin
01-07-2007, 03:01 PM
When you think about property hotspots in Eastern Europe, Prague, Warsaw or even the Baltic states may spring to mind.
http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/42412000/jpg/_42412849_kievgalina_bbc203.jpg Most new flats are sold with unfinished walls and floors


Few people would necessarily put the capital of Ukraine in the same category.
Yet Kiev is now believed to be the most expensive city in Eastern Europe in which to buy a home.
Prices increased by 10-25% in just the final two months of 2006.
New blocks of flats are springing up across the capital of this former Soviet republic.
Concrete shell
One such is the Triumph apartment complex.
It overlooks rolling hills and golden-domed churches on the edge of the city, and according to TMM, the company responsible, will have a swimming pool, spa and underground parking.
http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/shared/img/o.gifhttp://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/42412000/jpg/_42412845_kievtanyav_bbc203.jpg
http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/nol/shared/img/v3/start_quote_rb.gif It makes me feel hopeless and helpless... there is no place for young professionals like me in this city http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/nol/shared/img/v3/end_quote_rb.gif


Tanya Voroshko


Although months remain till the building is complete, much of it has been sold already.
And although the flats remains a concrete shell - as with most flats in Kiev, it is up to the owners to fit floors and doors and finish the walls - a three-bedroom unit is valued at about $1m.
This kind of price is estimated to be about three times what it would have been two years ago - although, with no public register, no-one is entirely sure of the exact figures.
The cost of apartments has already overtaken some EU cities like Amsterdam.
"It's been amazing," says Tanya Plemenyuk from NAI Pickard Commercial Real Estate Services, who is showing a prospective investor round the flat.
"Kiev has experienced such a property boom. I bought a flat three years ago for $30,000, and now its worth up to $200,000."
Speculators
Part of the story is simply a rising demand for accommodation as wages go up and the economy grows - a demand for which supply cannot keep up.
http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/42412000/jpg/_42412853_kievsite_bbc203.jpg Many sites operate 24 hours a day


"People simply want to move out of their old Soviet style housing, and move into something more comfortable," says Jaroslav Kinach from property developers XXI Century Investments.
In addition, many Ukrainians don't trust banks, preferring property as a way of securing their savings.
And then there is also a new class of super-rich Ukrainians looking for ways to invest their money: a tiny, but incredibly wealthy, group of business people who have done well since the collapse of the USSR, often in traditional industries such as steel production.
But the main driver for the property boom is speculation.
Investors tend to snap up new flats, then leave them unfinished and empty - adding to the imbalance between supply and demand.
At the offices of agents Parker and Obolensky, prices start at $500,000.
"In my experience the most expensive places cost $25,000 per square metre," says Parker and Obolensky's Ruslan Suchkoe.
"That's not a joke. Apartments of this price are about 100 to 300 square meters in size."
Such a valuation would put the top of the market at around $7.5m.
Out of balance?
But despite the building frenzy, Ukraine remains one of the poorest countries in Europe.
http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/42412000/jpg/_42412855_kievsoviet_bbc203.jpg For many living in Soviet-era blocks, the new flats remain out of reach


The cheapest one-bedroom flat in Kiev costs in the region of $100,000- far beyond the reach of most people in a city where the average salary is about $200 a month.
At the age of 30, Tanya Voroshko still lives with her mother.
For her, buying her own home seems like an impossible dream.
"It makes me feel hopeless and helpless," she says.
"No matter how hard you try, taking into account I make pretty good money, still I can't afford it.
"It makes me feel angry and like there is no place for young professionals like me in this city."
Even as darkness falls across the capital, the building work continues.
Some building sites operate 24 hours a day.
But with so much speculation, and such an imbalance between prices and salaries, many fear that the residential property market in Kiev is in danger of overheating. It could be a bubble - and if so, there is no way of knowing when it might burst.

fantomas
01-07-2007, 03:23 PM
def not a surprise. ive been there this past august and the city is BOOOOMING!

the next european party capital, youll see. wonderful city.

Doublethinker
01-07-2007, 03:44 PM
What are they, stupid? One-bedroom flats for USD 100,000 is an abnormally low price for Moscow.

And its not about booming cities - its about artifically created shortage of housing, both in Moscow and Kiev.

Danik
01-07-2007, 05:00 PM
What are they, stupid? One-bedroom flats for USD 100,000 is an abnormally low price for Moscow.

And its not about booming cities - its about artifically created shortage of housing, both in Moscow and Kiev.

So cheap... By my house, uptown manahattan(cheapest in the city) a 1 bedroom is about 550K.

eugenlitwin
01-07-2007, 07:30 PM
And its not about booming cities - its about artifically created shortage of housing, both in Moscow and Kiev.

agree
PS in early middle age Kiev was biggest city in Europe…

Doublethinker
01-07-2007, 07:34 PM
So cheap... By my house, uptown manahattan(cheapest in the city) a 1 bedroom is about 550K.

Yeah, only you get a house while we get an apartment in a multiapartment building.

And I'm quite sure that if you count the overall amount of square meters in you house, you'd be surprised.

goat89
01-07-2007, 09:30 PM
I hope Kiev will be 1 day will be like Paris or something. Definately good for them

Danik
01-07-2007, 10:19 PM
Yeah, only you get a house while we get an apartment in a multiapartment building.

And I'm quite sure that if you count the overall amount of square meters in you house, you'd be surprised.

Sir, we get an apartment in an apartment building. Free standing houses on the island of manahattan are rarer than Giants superbowl chances. I think past the historical landmarks that are houses, the closest you can come to a house in the city is a townhouse(connected to many other houses) which costs around 6-10 mill in Harlem, and a sum too large to comprehend in a safe location).

dimasorokine
01-07-2007, 10:27 PM
I only see this as being good for people who already own property or develop properties, not for young people / families looking to buy a home....

This will opress a lot of people and keep them working longer for a mortgage than they have to.

-Dima

Thor
01-07-2007, 10:42 PM
Supply and Demand...

Danik
01-07-2007, 10:44 PM
I only see this as being good for people who already own property or develop properties, not for young people / families looking to buy a home....

This will opress a lot of people and keep them working longer for a mortgage than they have to.

-Dima

Quick question. I'm went to Ukraine 2 years ago, and I understood that people pay for their houses, and the mortgage system wasnt as widespread as it is in America, is that accurate?

Mr.K
01-07-2007, 10:49 PM
More like real estate bubble.
Demand would be reasonable priced housing, not pseudo-luxurious apartments built for the speculators.

Doublethinker
01-07-2007, 11:25 PM
Sir, we get an apartment in an apartment building. Free standing houses on the island of manahattan are rarer than Giants superbowl chances. I think past the historical landmarks that are houses, the closest you can come to a house in the city is a townhouse(connected to many other houses) which costs around 6-10 mill in Harlem, and a sum too large to comprehend in a safe location).

EEK!!!

But on the other side, average montly salary in Moscow is USD 500 that comes to an average annual salary of USD 6000. Now tell me what's your average salary in Manhattan.

After all, its not the absolute amounts that matter.

Doublethinker
01-07-2007, 11:35 PM
I only see this as being good for people who already own property or develop properties, not for young people / families looking to buy a home....

This will opress a lot of people and keep them working longer for a mortgage than they have to.

-Dima

EXACTLY.

I've stumbled on the same problem here in Moscow when trying to get off my parent's back. Right now I'm earning USD 1000 a month and its STILL impossible even to rent a normal single-bedroom flat - with a standard price of 700-800 USD for any single-bedroom flat per month of rent and fu*king skyrocketing prices for food and goods its close to impossible to make for a living with the remaining USD 300, left alone BUYING a flat.

I've estimated that to purchase my own flat, even if I'm to take a special loan with only 10% per year and if I use my money only for the basic needs, I'd have to earn at least TWICE the sum for the next 10 years, and that means - no flats for most young singles out there.

Doublethinker
01-07-2007, 11:39 PM
More like real estate bubble.
Demand would be reasonable priced housing, not pseudo-luxurious apartments built for the speculators.

Hahaha, and where would you get *reasonable priced housing*? All we even see now is ultra-modern housing in fresh new houses built by top construction companies.

Where is an AVERAGE citizen to find a place to live for himself?

the USSR answered this problem under Khruschev - with construction of lots of the so-called *khruschobs*, cheap standard 5-storey houses meant for accomodation of average citizens.

I don't think that current Russian or Ukrainian governments have any real idea how to find a solution to this challenge. In fact, I'm not sure that they even care to.

Danik
01-08-2007, 03:37 AM
EEK!!!

But on the other side, average montly salary in Moscow is USD 500 that comes to an average annual salary of USD 6000. Now tell me what's your average salary in Manhattan.

After all, its not the absolute amounts that matter.

I think it something close to 70K, but thats the average, which especially in the case of manhattan means nothing. Theres thousands of people on welfare in low income housing paying 250$ a month, and then theres investment bankers who pay 10K for their places. The whole spectrum of income is represented, I pay 970 for a 3 bedroom apartment, and thats due too rent stabilization(basically owner can only raise it about 3% a year, I have lived here for about 8years). The market price for my apartement is about $2,500. I have to ask, how the builders are able to charge that much for flats in Kiev, if you say young proffesionals cant offord them, so who is buying them.

Kangars
01-08-2007, 08:53 AM
I have to ask, how the builders are able to charge that much for flats in Kiev, if you say young proffesionals cant offord them, so who is buying them.
Property dealers, foreigh investors. Buy cheap, sell expencive. Falling interest rates and developing morgage system only boost housing pricies in Moscow and Kiev. Also flock of immigrants from former USSR republics to capital cities all pushes demand up.

Due to booming housing market it is sad situation in Latvia right now: poor skilled builder earns more than architect of the project (2 stored private house) :cantbeli:

Doublethinker
01-08-2007, 10:56 AM
I think it something close to 70K, but thats the average, which especially in the case of manhattan means nothing. Theres thousands of people on welfare in low income housing paying 250$ a month, and then theres investment bankers who pay 10K for their places. The whole spectrum of income is represented, I pay 970 for a 3 bedroom apartment, and thats due too rent stabilization(basically owner can only raise it about 3% a year, I have lived here for about 8years). The market price for my apartement is about $2,500. I have to ask, how the builders are able to charge that much for flats in Kiev, if you say young proffesionals cant offord them, so who is buying them.

Well, I don't think you really have salaries like USD 12K, right? And over here in Moscow its considered to be a rather good salary.

Low income housing of 250 a month?! Why don't we have such sort of housing?? There is nothing like what you are describing in Moscow - there is NO low income housing, so most people who don't have the money try to find a place to stay in the suburbs, several kilometers away from the city itself.

As for who's buying them - what the article doesn't really mention is the actual amount of multiapartment buildings constructed every year in the city. The current urban planning seems to take only the needs of the ultra-rich into account, with normal housing for average citizens being constructed in extremely small quantites.

Herrmannek
01-08-2007, 11:04 AM
haha. Cities are booming yet ordinary people unless got a really good job can't even afford renting a smallest flat... Same story in all demoludes(Eastern block)... Living with parents or optionally with friends stacked 2-3 people per room... Curious why there is no trailer park offers yet.....