Light fire-support AFVs?

[Tony Williams]

How about these two: the Warrior MICV and Piranha wheeled AFV, both with a turreted Royal Ordnance 120mm breech-loading mortar.

I can't help thinking that these would be much better for general fire support than the high-velocity 105mm gun the US Army is considering for Stryker:

http://www.quarry.nildram.co.uk/PICT0278.jpg

http://www.quarry.nildram.co.uk/PICT0218.jpg

Tony Williams: Military gun and ammunition website (http://www.quarry.nildram.co.uk) and Discussion forum (http://forums.delphiforums.com/autogun/messages/)

[csqnsas]

FUKC OFF

[Operation Ivy]

FUKC OFF

??? :|

anyway Tony why do u think that the styker shouldnt have a high velocity 105mm cannon? :D

[HELEX]

HV Ammo is only usefull against armor, and Armor can be defeated with ATGM.

Makes sense.

[Ian H]

FUKC OFF

That's totally unneccesary, shut up.



You have a point, I think. Javelin and its ilk can handle pretty much any armour threat, whereas 105mm anti-armour projectiles must be less effective against modern AFV's (why else would the move to 120mm have been made?) so all you need is a general fire support weapon, and a mortar is as good as any.
Can 105mm 'tank' guns fire the 105mm artillery rounds from the Abbot, M108 etc?

[mustamato]

http://www.army-technology.com/contractor_images/patria/patria12.jpg
AMOS, Advanced MOrtar system, double long-range 120 mm mortars.

http://www.panzerbaer.de/types/pix/cv90_amos_1.jpg
On tracks, if that is preferred


The two mortars are mounted on a common cradle with equilibrator and a leading device. The system is designed for ultra-rapid fire rate, reaching a claimed 26 rpm burst, with multiple rounds simultaneous impact (MRSI) at 14 to 13,000m range.

And oh yes, it´s capable of direct fire as well of course. And it can fire
in example STRIX, a guided anti-tank grenade.

[Tymi]

Here's a video of the amos in action: www.suomensotilas.fi/nettisotilas/Lehti/Kuvat/amos.mpg

[Uninen]

FUKC OFF

Kid shut the **** up!

Tony Williams here is an adult that actually makes books about these things, unlike you a person that wont even most likely ever serve a one single day on any military.

:slap:

[Ian H]

That's a fantastic vid. Thanks a lot

[Uninen]

In the vid:

AMOS on CV90 IFV, on Patrias XA-series APC and on Swedish "Combat Boat" 90.

[mustamato]

and on Swedish "Combat Boat" 90.

That boat is way to small for something like AMOS. There is a project on a
"Stridsbåt Ny" (Combat boat New) in the process now which would be a more
stabile platform for the AMOS, but as always $$ is a factor so who knows if it
will become a reality or not. But look at the "precision" with AMOS on Stridsbåt 90:

http://www.mss.mil.se/images/local/nedslag.jpg
Big picture so I only link it

http://www.mss.mil.se/images/local/batlangt.jpg
... and the Strb 90 that fired the grenades

http://www.amf4.mil.se/images/local/ssg_index.jpg

[Tony Williams]

The 105mm gun is optimised for anti-tank work. Yes, it can lob HE shells but it's very inefficient at that, being far too long, heavy and complex; a particular issue when it comers to air-portability.

The AMOS is a brilliant hot-war system for use against sophisticated opponents as it is designed to fire off several rounds in very quick succession then move - quickly - before the enemy counter-battery barrage arrives. However, it is obviously heavier and more complex than the RO 120mm, and the autoloader is bound to take up much more space inside the vehicle. Also, I'm not sure how quickly you can switch ammunition types if a different sort of target emerges.

The RO 120mm has the benefits of simplicity, compactness and light weight. Being manually loaded, you can have several different types of ammo to hand so the loader can chuck in whichever one is necessary. So the standard HE round can be used in direct and indirect fire (and in urban fighting can be elevated to pick off RPG operators in tall buildings). If a tank appears in line-of-sight, something like the Lahat gun-fired guided missile could be loaded. If the tanks are out of sight, a Strix can be fired.

Overall, it seems to me to be a more versatile package than the 105mm HV gun, and better suited to peacekeeping/low intensity operations than the AMOS.

Tony Williams

[Uninen]

AMOS isnt tailored to be light or suited for "peacekeeping/low intensity operations".....
It is for all out war, to deliver knock out blows... and the "14 rounds simultaineously at the same target fire mode" tells a pretty story about it....
(this max of 14 is of course achieved only in certain ranges, but still..)

Link to AMOS official site (http://www.patria.fi/modules/page/show_page.asp?id=13FE56E1951A414DB580A03DE4FC8658&prt=CBD0FB31EEF5461E943353F4D3D5C7BA&frm=MENU_1&lid=5B0122C3CCF44DE39F30CE0E7576D791)

Also check this... (http://www.patriahagglunds.fi/)


One of the key properties of the AMOS is MRSI, Multiple Rounds Simultaneous Impact. It's a system, which makes it possible to fire up to 14 rounds landing at the target at the same time.

And the munitions used, basic load is "84 rds HE and 6 rds smart guided ammunition" and like any other mortar, its main munitions are infact HE, but it cant also fire full range of "special rounds".....

Might i add that there is also no "different rounds" for indirect / direct fire, but that it fires standard 120mm mortar rounds in both "modes"...

AAI of USA also holds the licence to manufacture this system for US Armed services....

AAI Corporation Enters Into Technology License for AMOS Mortar System (http://www.aaicorp.com/corporate/press/amos_release.html)


?This is a major new initiative for AAI Corporation,? stated Fred Strader, AAI Corporation president and chief operating officer. ?We are extremely proud to be selected to work with a company the caliber of Patria Hägglunds, its employees, and its associated firms. Current world conditions highlight the need for more capable mortar systems for U.S. forces. AMOS is the best turret mortar system available today.?

?One of the first markets for AMOS and its technologies,? Strader added, ?will be the U.S. Army?s Future Combat System (FCS). The AMOS system design is mature and will meet the Army?s aggressive time schedule for FCS. The mortar system is a prominent element in achieving organic fire support in the Objective Force. With AMOS, AAI is positioned well to help the Army meet its new challenges.?

;)