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View Full Version : IMC confirms Sinn Fein leadership are also PIRA leaders



Royal
04-20-2004, 06:22 PM
The Independent Monitoring Commission (IMC) report on Northern Ireland, published on Tuesday, recommends action against Sinn Fein and the Progressive Unionist Party in response to continuing IRA and loyalist violence.

It also confirms that the leadership of both parties are still active in their respective terrorist organisations.




Paramilitaries 'named and shamed'
The Independent Monitoring Commission (IMC) report, published on Tuesday, recommended action against Sinn Fein and the Progressive Unionist Party in response to continuing IRA and loyalist violence.

Lord Alderdice, one of the authors of the IMC report, said that, in the future, the group may release the names of people it believed to be paramilitary leaders.

"Those who are involved at a senior level should expect to receive direct communications from the commission in the near future," he said.

"We will be asking them what they think about the directions we intend to take and then we will be holding them publicly and personally accountable for what they have been doing."


Speaking in the House of Commons on Tuesday, Mr Murphy announced that there is to be a cut in the funding which the parties receive from government.

"The commission finds that paramilitary activity is at a disturbingly high level on the part of both republican and loyalist groups," he said.

Reasons for sanctions outlined
"On the basis of reported figures, the scale of paramilitary violence since 1 January 2003 has been worryingly high, approaching one murder a month, some three victims a week both from shootings and assaults.

"The commission goes on to state that two parties, Sinn Fein and the PUP have links with paramilitary groups. It is clear from the report that senior politicians are in a position to exercise significant influence over their activities."

The commission also said "some members, including some senior members of Sinn Fein are also members, including, in some cases, senior members of PIRA".

Mr Murphy said the commission also expressed its belief that the incident in Belfast on 20 February was the responsibility of the Provisional IRA.

Mr Murphy said: "I am persuaded it would be right to remove for a period the entitlement to the block financial assistance paid to assembly parties in respect of Sinn Fein and the PUP."

He added that he proposed to do so on Wednesday 28 April. He warned that he could also act to reduce members' salaries, should he choose to do so, in the light of a future IMC report.



Paul Murphy addressed the Commons on the report

The secretary of state said, however, that in line with legal requirements, he would take into account representations received from the political parties by next Tuesday, before reaching a final decision.

The IMC report's authors said that, "had the Assembly been functioning, we would have recommended in respect of Sinn Fein and the PUP, measures up to and possibly including exclusion from office".

Tuesday's IMC report comes as intensive political talks, planned for London next week, involving all the Northern Ireland parties and the British and Irish Prime Ministers were postponed.

On the Tohill incident, the IMC reports that the material it has studied indicates that this was an operation "planned and undertaken by the Provisional IRA".

The IRA leadership has claimed it did not authorise any action against Mr Tohill.

'Partisan report'

Sinn Fein President Gerry Adams said his party would not accept "this partisan report".

He said: "Sinn Fein will not accept this attack on our integrity. We will not accept this attack on our electoral mandate.

"We will challenge it by every means at our disposal and at every door we go to in the upcoming election campaign."

Billy Hutchinson of the Progressive Unionist Party said the sanctions were illegal and could not be enforced.

"Once again, the British Government will go through all this and find out in a few years' time that they have to apologise to everybody because they acted outside the system," he said.

He said the government had "taken a hammer to crack a nut".

DUP leader Ian Paisley called the sanction on Sinn Fein a "murder tax". He told the House of Commons that if parties did not keep to the rules governing the talks, they should not be allowed to take part.

Ulster Unionist leader David Trimble said that action on prisoner releases would be better than proposed financial penalties.


The body reported on the state of paramilitary activity

"Does the secretary of state not have the power to act under prisoner release legislation and would not such action not be better than the proposed financial penalties?" he said.

The SDLP's Seamus Mallon described the "petty cash" sanctions imposed on the parties as "risible". He urged the secretary of state not to waste time "scratching at the surface" with meaningless financial sanctions.

The Irish Government said it accepted the recommendations of the Commission and the report spoke for itself.

It said the report "painted a disturbing picture in relation to paramilitary and criminal activity".


The report lists about a dozen paramilitary murders since the beginning of last year - the bulk of which are attributed to loyalist paramilitaries - five of them to the UDA alone.

These killings include the sectarian murder of James McMahon in Lisburn last November.

The PUP is aligned with the outlawed Ulster Volunteer Force, which has been blamed for recent racist attacks in Belfast and the murder of John Allen in Ballyclare, County Antrim, in November last year.

The commission, which began operation in January, was originally due to report on loyalist and republican paramilitary activity every six months.

This timetable was dramatically altered in February following an incident involving Mr Tohill, which Chief Constable Hugh Orde immediately blamed on the IRA.

The four-man commission is a crucial element in the two governments' plans for restoring devolution, which was suspended in October 2002 amid allegations of IRA intelligence gathering at Stormont.

It seems like Adams and McGuiness are as guilty as we always knew they were. Still got that Thompson you were using in Londonderry back in '73 Martin?

Irish_Man
04-20-2004, 07:16 PM
It's not Londonderry.

It's Derry.

How many times have we got to tell you that ye tick Englishman ? :lol:

PS. I think they got rid of the "old Thomson's" after this incident and started using high powered sinper rifles. Far more effective.

Tiocfaidh ar Lá

Irish_Man
04-20-2004, 07:31 PM
Correction.

Of course I meant to say sniper instead of sinper in the above.

I must have a itchy finger in all this excitement!

rofl

Flagg
04-20-2004, 07:32 PM
Royal,

A couple of questions, if you have the time:

From my interpretation of this release I gather the political leadership of terrorist organizations are now "fair game" in NI.

A fellow rider who emigrated here and had first hand experience in NI left me with the impression(without going into detail) that Sinn Fein and PIRA were deeply infiltrated throughout much of the conflict.

If that's the case, and Sinn Fein political leadership have a long history of bloody hands why wasn't action taken THEN against the political leadership, and why NOW?

Were there any previous advantages to having that public(and I assume private) dialogue with Sinn Fein?

I distinctly recall many of the bombing that occurred in both NI and England. Even your PM had a close call if I remember correctly with an IRA bomb......why weren't Defense Forces tasked with responding in kind(arresting Sinn Fein political leadership for direct involvement, for example)?

Was it a question of weighing the results against potentially losing INT sources?

Or was it a political decision to avoid further unrest?

The conflict in NI reminds me of the Israeli/Palestinian conflict.....the more I learn, the less I really know :roll:

UkrainianAmerican
04-20-2004, 07:36 PM
And thus the cycle of violence is about to begin :cantbeli:

gaz
04-20-2004, 07:42 PM
Flagg, you think you're confused? I've grown up with it for twenty five years and sometimes I haven't a clue...

In regards to arresting Sinn Fein members there was internment without trial at Long Kesh in the early to mid seventies but I believe that was limited to suspected members of terrorist groups rather than political parties. To be truthful I'm not even sure why I'm replying to this, there's got to be someone here who's got more information for you than I have.

Oh, and you're correct about Prime Ministers haveing close calls, the Tory party confernce was bombed in Brighton in (I believe) 1983 while Margeret Thatcher was there and mortars were fired at 10 Downing Street in the early nineties while John Major was having a meeting there.

cut
04-20-2004, 11:39 PM
It's not Londonderry.

It's Derry.

How many times have we got to tell you that ye tick Englishman ? :lol:

PS. I think they got rid of the "old Thomson's" after this incident and started using high powered sinper rifles. Far more effective.

Tiocfaidh ar Lá

edit: drunken post

Royal
04-21-2004, 02:58 AM
It's not Londonderry.

It's Derry.

How many times have we got to tell you that ye tick Englishman ? :lol:

To you it may be, at least get my nationality right ya tick Mick. I'm a tick Jock.


Royal,

A couple of questions, if you have the time:

From my interpretation of this release I gather the political leadership of terrorist organizations are now "fair game" in NI.

At the moment at least, no. There are only plans to Sinn Fein and the PUP. Whether they will be allowed to take up seats in Stormont (if and when it reopens I don't know).


A fellow rider who emigrated here and had first hand experience in NI left me with the impression(without going into detail) that Sinn Fein and PIRA were deeply infiltrated throughout much of the conflict.

If that's the case, and Sinn Fein political leadership have a long history of bloody hands why wasn't action taken THEN against the political leadership, and why NOW?

Partly becuase there is a hugh difference between intelligence and evidence and we have to abide by due process and the rule of law. Partly because we have tried to maintain a dialogue throught the 'troubles'.


Were there any previous advantages to having that public(and I assume private) dialogue with Sinn Fein?

Yes, the current (and previous) ceasfire(s).


I distinctly recall many of the bombing that occurred in both NI and England. Even your PM had a close call if I remember correctly with an IRA bomb......why weren't Defense Forces tasked with responding in kind(arresting Sinn Fein political leadership for direct involvement, for example)?

See my comments on evidence above...


Was it a question of weighing the results against potentially losing INT sources?

Or was it a political decision to avoid further unrest?

Both. Among other things.

martinexsquaddie
04-21-2004, 03:24 AM
Irish_man you sound like one of those
thick yanks who came over to vist the rebels and never trigged the residents of londonderry/derry whatever were taking the piss constantly :roll:

Mark Sman
04-21-2004, 04:41 AM
I'm a tick Yank.

Ew. "Yank" Why do so many people continue to refer to everyone in the US as a Yank?

No Dixie is no better. Noone here refers to themselves as that.

OK, back to the post.

I hope that this level of accountability is followed through on. I used to drink at an Irish bar here in the US where the "Boys" are accorded a status that hey have never held in reality or fiction.

I think (from tlaking to residents of NI) that a sincere effort to end this conflict may be in the offing.

I sure as hell hope so. My family emmigrated to the US from what would later become the republic.

"The Troubles." What a peculiarly Irish way to understate such a harsh and bloody event.

Tit for tat doesn't work, and everyone knows it. Leadership in NI needs to catch up to their citizens. The war is over.

Gringo
04-21-2004, 05:19 AM
I'm a tick Yank.

Ew. "Yank" Why do so many people continue to refer to everyone in the US as a Yank?

you call us Limeys.
However when I refer to someone as a yank, it is one of those americans that always think they're the best and are just plain arseholes (like sixgun)

Btw, I'm just plain tick :lol:

Flagg
04-21-2004, 05:24 AM
you call us Limeys.

I prefer "Bloody Pom" ;)

Gringo
04-21-2004, 05:45 AM
you call us Limeys.

I prefer "Bloody Pom" ;)

I've never heard that one before, where'd that come from?

Javehn
04-21-2004, 06:00 AM
you call us Limeys.

I prefer "Bloody Pom" ;)

I've never heard that one before, where'd that come from?

Hehe , even i know that one . Bleedy Pomies rofl .

Flagg
04-21-2004, 06:08 AM
I've never heard that one before, where'd that come from?


Waaaaaaaay down here mate! ;)

NZ

Javehn
04-21-2004, 06:09 AM
Are NZ technically could be called Kiwies ?

Mate !

Mark Sman
04-21-2004, 06:12 AM
you call us Limeys.

Never refered to anyone as a Limey.

Maybe a 9(_)k!|\| 4|2|-|()|_3 or a |34$-|-4|2|)

never a Limey.

Mark Sman
04-21-2004, 06:13 AM
Don't believe I've even used either of those though.

Mark Sman
04-21-2004, 06:18 AM
Christ, NI is such a disaster.

Just when you think its got so down that everyplace looks up, a new travesty manifests itself and the cycle continues.

Mark Sman
04-21-2004, 06:40 AM
Also, to throw in another point.

The IMC seems to want to use the same rules for the PUP.

I hope so.

Acountablility is key here. All these street thugs need to be dealt with.

Flagg
04-21-2004, 06:47 AM
Are NZ technically could be called Kiwies ?

Mate !

Either Kiwis or New Zealanders ;)

OldRecon
04-21-2004, 11:06 AM
Though I haven't been there for years, thoght the communities in NI had got the taste for prosperity since Good Friday and weary of war?
Think overall that the way British security forces have handled the situation in the province has been quite good given the circumstances.
Btw, is the Progressive Unionist Party the political front window for UFF?
Was it one of the leaders of UFF that sort of looked like a blond street thug with arms on stereoids full off tatoos and with a baseball cap on the head turned back/front yo, yo vise?
Anyway think he looked more sort of a gangstah than a politicaly motivated terrorist.
Hope "the ceasefire" lasts through the upcoming marching season also.

gaz
04-21-2004, 11:29 AM
Was it one of the leaders of UFF that sort of looked like a blond street thug with arms on stereoids full off tatoos and with a baseball cap on the head turned back/front yo, yo vise?
Anyway think he looked more sort of a gangstah than a politicaly motivated terrorist.


I think you're probably talking about Johnny "Mad Dog" Adair (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/821698.stm), a couple of years ago his son was shot in both legs, it was rumoured it was done with his fathers approval for not "behaving".

Irish_Man
04-21-2004, 04:33 PM
Hey Jock !

Maybe you should add the word strap onto that.

Royal Jockstrap has got such a nice ring to it don’t you think. :lol:

Irish_Man
04-21-2004, 04:37 PM
Irish_man you sound like one of those
thick yanks who came over to vist the rebels and never trigged the residents of londonderry/derry whatever were taking the piss constantly

I wouldn’t know about that. I have only ever seen Ulster from the South - if you catch my drift - or should I say windage. rofl

martinexsquaddie
04-21-2004, 04:50 PM
irish terrorism sooooo last century :lol:
when are you going to get with the demands of 21st century terror
we want to see the boys hangliding naked at number 10 with 25 lb of semtex stuck to them.
mind you sending the lads on a bird watching trip to columbia was'nt the smartest move :lol:
George might not invite for cosy fireside chats like bill did :).
But you want to join the war on terror I'm sure he'll he'll send you an invitation :roll:.
theres all those strike eagles sitting in norfolk why'd you think we got rid of all those super sangars (don't really want to be in the vicinity when the usaf starts hunting terrorists :petting: )