NRO: Baghdad is not what you see on the nightly news.

[Seoulstriker]

http://www.nationalreview.com/script/printpage.asp?ref=/comment/alt200404210832.asp


April 21, 2004, 8:32 a.m.
Like Mike
Baghdad is not what you see on the nightly news.

By Robert Alt

BAGHDAD, IRAQ — Cars spin down the street at night, tricked out with blue neon lights and sporting CDs dangled from their rearview mirrors. Thriving shops blare 50 Cent's In Da Club, while the young techie at one of the numerous local Internet cafés prefers to blast Nirvana. Cell phones with personalized ring tones and text messaging are literally everywhere. And teenage gamers while away their afternoons playing Vice City and Tom Clancy's Medal of Honor. Anytown, USA? No: Welcome to the new face of Baghdad, where, to quote Army Sgt. First Class Woods, the kids "want to be like Mike, not like Mahtma."

Everywhere you look in Baghdad, there are signs of capitalism. The streets are festooned with signs for Samsung and Iraqna, the major local cell-phone provider for the city. Satellite dishes — the possession of which was punishable by the state under Saddam — now hang from houses throughout the city. It is difficult to walk down Rashid Street because of all the large hand carts overloaded with televisions, computers, air conditioners, and microwaves.

The locals are snatching up not only Western goods, but Western culture. As you might expect, this is particularly true among the youth. In addition to listening to Western music, increasingly available thanks to the Armed Forces radio station, they also follow the lives of music celebrities in Arabic magazines, which chronicle events like Britney's Vegas wedding. With the proliferation of televisions and satellites, Arabic music videos — strikingly similar to Western videos — have become popular. And once rock and roll is introduced, *** and drugs must follow — well, maybe not, but the taboo against alcohol is loosening, as many of the local men sneak around in the evening to taste the forbidden elixir away from the condemning eyes of wives and clerics.

But perhaps the biggest influx of Western culture is in the area of fashion. Young women are increasingly abandoning traditional Iraqi garb in favor of more form-fitting clothes. And while the middle-aged woman across from the palace in Adhamiya may scream "Whores!" as the girls pass by in their more revealing Western garb, she does so only as a break from indulging in her own Western pursuit: hocking Pepsi on the street corner. Men are also quickly snatching up clothes emblazoned with English words, only to ask passing Americans to tell them what their clothes say. (Imagine their chagrin when they learn that their shirts' logo is not really English, but rather a Greek word for victory.)

There is also a particular fascination not only with things American, but with Americans themselves. If you tell someone from Baghdad that you are from America, you are likely to be met with excitement and the common exclamation: "I love America." They will want to know where you are from in America, and what you think of Iraq. Without prompting, they will tell you what their lives were like under Saddam, and how they have changed. And their children are likely to be drawn to the American soldiers — waving, smiling, and running to meet them. For those whose impression of Iraqi sentiment has been shaped by the nightly news, the Iraqi response to Americans may be the biggest surprise to come from a trip to Baghdad.

With all these changes, it should come as little surprise that Baghdad is experiencing growing pains. While modern conveniences are becoming increasingly common, many neighborhoods are still struggling to manage basic functions like trash disposal. Having tasted freedom and capitalism, the people want more, and they want it now. This leads to a growing impatience among the locals at the pace of rebuilding, and at the level of security. This impatience is deliberately aggravated by those who are not happy about the influx of capital and higher standards of living; those who would rather see women covered from head to toe and relegated to the home; and those who would, to paraphrase a senior Coalition official, return this country not just to the reign of Saddam, but to the seventh century. Hence, walking down Rashid Street, you are likely to hear random gunfire; in the Karada region of Baghdad, when a neighborhood begins to prosper, a bomb is likely to go off. The mission of the terrorists is simple: strike at progress, and prevent Iraqis from feeling comfortable in spite of newfound comforts.

But it is too late to turn back the clock. As the locals experience greater freedom, they demand more of it, not less. There is still a long way to go: the trash, random violence, panhandling, and vendors selling bootleg DVDs and fake Rolexes make Baghdad look like a Middle Eastern version of pre-Giuliani New York. But Baghdad has come a very long way down the road of freedom and capitalism in just one year — progress that should encourage Americans as much as it angers freedom's enemies.

— Robert Alt is a fellow in legal and international studies at the John M. Ashbrook Center for Public Affairs at Ashland University. He is beginning his second of four months in Iraq.

[Uninen]

Thats sad...... :|

In no time were getting something like "Baghdad xxx episode 51", now is that the purpose to this great "freedom" that people start acting like whores? :bash:

[ShotOver]

How are they acting like whores?

Because they refuse to act the way of 18th century people?

[big_les]

'Tom Clancy's Medal of Honour'?

Tsk tsk.

[Ghostwolf]

GTA: Vice City?!! Oh boy..... :cantbeli:

[Uninen]

How are they acting like whores?

Because they refuse to act the way of 18th century people?

:|


The locals are snatching up not only Western goods, but Western culture. As you might expect, this is particularly true among the youth.

:|

Go figure.

[scm77]

This article disgusts me. How dare those women take of their burqas. How dare those people have satelite dishes and microwaves? I am shocked an apauled. :roll: :roll:

[ßå$tĮТHÏ¿ð]

New threat to the Coalition, illegal street racing ;)

[Fotch]

Thats sad...... :|

In no time were getting something like "Baghdad xxx episode 51", now is that the purpose to this great "freedom" that people start acting like whores? :bash:

I know!! Some of those poor men will now be arrested for beating their wives. Children will hopefully not be given guns to sleep with in their cribs. Their minds might be opened to new ideas and ideals through contact with the rest of the world. Hell, they might actually get a chance to vote and decide on the future of their country. They would be much better off they way they were. <SARCARSM!!! - in case your sense of humor isn't up to par>

[big_les]

GTA: Vice City?!! Oh boy..... :cantbeli:

I was pointing out that Medal of Honour has sod all to do with Tom Clancy; do you not like Vice City? I love it, personally.

[usa320]

Wait...so you rather see these kids put into plastic shredder machines than playing video games and listening to American music???

morons.

How are any of you in any position to insult "western" society, when you are all from the "western world" yourselves.

Granted, i think this whole hip hop rap, its cool to be a gansta attitude among American youth is just stupid, but to blame western society on whole is wrong.

[American Patriot]

Tom Clancy's Medal of Honor

Oh, the horror!

[ibstolidude]

Thats sad...... :|

In no time were getting something like "Baghdad xxx episode 51", now is that the purpose to this great "freedom" that people start acting like whores? :bash:
yes because before the US involemnet they never liked any of these things.

:roll:

[American Patriot]

BTW It's great that Islam is being reformed in a big part of the Near East.

[ibstolidude]

Thats sad...... :|

In no time were getting something like "Baghdad xxx episode 51", now is that the purpose to this great "freedom" that people start acting like whores? :bash:
The world is so disrespectful - I agree their own culture should be shoved down their throats reagardless of the peoples actual desires, just so that you and I can sleep better knowing their culture is preserved - to hell with what those people may want or desire, after all Uninen is the most qualified to speak on the behalf of those participating in those activties.

As a matter of fact the culture of many 3rd world countries has been shaped by such things as famine, diseases and civil war - who are we, the industrialized world, to destroy that heritage - let them starve. I mean we could jepordize their society with such crazy things like medicines and vaccinations. From now on regardless of their requests, just let them rot.

:roll: :roll:

[aktarian]

The locals are snatching up not only Western goods, but Western culture. As you might expect, this is particularly true among the youth. In addition to listening to Western music, increasingly available thanks to the Armed Forces radio station, they also follow the lives of music celebrities in Arabic magazines, which chronicle events like Britney's Vegas wedding. With the proliferation of televisions and satellites, Arabic music videos — strikingly similar to Western videos — have become popular. And once rock and roll is introduced, *** and drugs must follow — well, maybe not, but the taboo against alcohol is loosening, as many of the local men sneak around in the evening to taste the forbidden elixir away from the condemning eyes of wives and clerics.

But perhaps the biggest influx of Western culture is in the area of fashion. Young women are increasingly abandoning traditional Iraqi garb in favor of more form-fitting clothes. And while the middle-aged woman across from the palace in Adhamiya may scream "Whores!" as the girls pass by in their more revealing Western garb, she does so only as a break from indulging in her own Western pursuit: hocking Pepsi on the street corner. Men are also quickly snatching up clothes emblazoned with English words, only to ask passing Americans to tell them what their clothes say. (Imagine their chagrin when they learn that their shirts' logo is not really English, but rather a Greek word for victory.)

So dressing up in revealing clothes and drinking Pepsi means accepting "western culture". I tohugh "western culture" means democracy and such, not tight clothes and carbonated drinks. Guess I was wrong.

[Mark Sman]

You can describe western culture in two words,

Get Some

[Marmot1]

The locals are snatching up not only Western goods, but Western culture. As you might expect, this is particularly true among the youth. In addition to listening to Western music, increasingly available thanks to the Armed Forces radio station, they also follow the lives of music celebrities in Arabic magazines, which chronicle events like Britney's Vegas wedding. With the proliferation of televisions and satellites, Arabic music videos — strikingly similar to Western videos — have become popular. And once rock and roll is introduced, *** and drugs must follow — well, maybe not, but the taboo against alcohol is loosening, as many of the local men sneak around in the evening to taste the forbidden elixir away from the condemning eyes of wives and clerics.

But perhaps the biggest influx of Western culture is in the area of fashion. Young women are increasingly abandoning traditional Iraqi garb in favor of more form-fitting clothes. And while the middle-aged woman across from the palace in Adhamiya may scream "Whores!" as the girls pass by in their more revealing Western garb, she does so only as a break from indulging in her own Western pursuit: hocking Pepsi on the street corner. Men are also quickly snatching up clothes emblazoned with English words, only to ask passing Americans to tell them what their clothes say. (Imagine their chagrin when they learn that their shirts' logo is not really English, but rather a Greek word for victory.)

So dressing up in revealing clothes and drinking Pepsi means accepting "western culture". I tohugh "western culture" means democracy and such, not tight clothes and carbonated drinks. Guess I was wrong.

No! No! Western means Coca-Cola not Pepsi :bash:

[Abolith]

I say give them the freedom to choose either westeren, easteren or to mix and match to create their own "new" culture. Afterall it IS theirs to do with as they please...

[ExtraT]

I say give them the freedom to choose either westeren, easteren or to mix and match to create their own "new" culture. Afterall it IS theirs to do with as they please...

Exactly. And to give them freedom, you have to make sure that scum like Sadr doesn't get power.

[Argyll]

What the fok do you expect?
Uninen.............................get back to neanderthal times ,Saddam Hussein allowed people in Baghdad to dress in Western Fashion,so this is nothing new..........Prostitution is the oldest industry in the world,EVERY COUNTRY IN THE WORLD HAS PROSTITUTES.............including yours,get off your morale high horse you clueless child!

Inside the green zone there is an air of normality at night,you can even go to a Chinese restaurant if you wanted

[ibstolidude]

Inside the green zone there is an air of normality at night,you can even go to a Chinese restaurant if you wanted
I dont eat this **** in the best of countries.

Hey good luck brother - glad you are well. - try the soft serve ice-cream

it's mmmmm good.

:lol: - then say hello to senior poop-pants.

[Ballistic]

Tom Clancy's Medal of Honor

Oh, the horror!

ROFL !! :lol:

Damn, he should atleast do his research !!!

[Uninen]

What the fok do you expect?

Some law and order..

After this "liberation" Iraq has become the most corrupt, most unsecure and most crime filled place on earth, and during the Saddam's years at least the crime (murder, rape, kidnappings, slavery) was almost nonexistant.

[Fintin]

SHHHH your going to wake the baby...

[Ballistic]

What the fok do you expect?

Some law and order..

After this "liberation" Iraq has become the most corrupt, most unsecure and most crime filled place on earth, and during the Saddam's years at least the crime (murder, rape, kidnappings, slavery) was almost nonexistant.

:roll:

[Fintin]

Some law and order..After this "liberation" Iraq has become the most corrupt, most unsecure and most crime filled place on earth, and during the Saddam's years at least the crime (murder, rape, kidnappings, slavery) was almost nonexistant.

yeah the people didnt murder rape kidnap or hold slaves but saddam did....go away your dumb and you smell bad uninen :fork:

[Maine Finn]

Uninen,

Kiinni jalkeilla ja taaksepäin lähettää ajaksi aikoinaan.

Why can't you just grow up?

[TriggerPuller]

What the fok do you expect?

Some law and order..

After this "liberation" Iraq has become the most corrupt, most unsecure and most crime filled place on earth, and during the Saddam's years at least the crime (murder, rape, kidnappings, slavery) was almost nonexistant. You speak as if you know this as first hand. Have you been there before or after the "liberation"?
Murder,rape,kidnappings and slavery were almost nonexistant! Are you kidding me? Step away from the crack pipe dude you are seriously showing your ignorance!

TP

[Uninen]

Yeah, sure he did.... according by Ahmed Challabi...... Now who the **** will actually belive what he and his buddies say.... :slap:

Maine Finn,

1. Im grown up, and anobody that thinks that "influx of western culture" to Iraq is a good thing is insane. They are foking Iraqis, with more than 5000 years of culture already "behind them"..
2. That makes no sense what you have writen...

[Maine Finn]

Yeah, sure he did.... according by Ahmed Challabi...... Now who the f*** will actually belive what he and his buddies say.... :slap:

Maine Finn,

1. Im grown up, and anobody that thinks that "influx of western culture" to Iraq is a good thing is insane. They are foking Iraqis, with more than 5000 years of culture already "behind them"..
2. That makes no sense what you have writen...

Guess what?

I'm past the point of caring. Arguing with you is futile and will likely give me an ulcer.

What I sad doesn't make sense? Tough. ****. Get over it, and shut up. Really. You say you're grown up, but you're not acting like it all tht much.
Posting blatantly anti-American rhetoric as much as you do only angers me and most of the others on this Forum. Take a hint and knock it off.

Is it plainer now that I've said it in English?

[Maine Finn]

TP,

How are things over there? Not too hairy, I hope. Good to see you and Argyll are paying us a visit when you can.

Are you going to bring me back something illegal so I can sell it? I need some cash. p-)

[Jack Mehoff]

What the fok do you expect?

Some law and order..

After this "liberation" Iraq has become the most corrupt, most unsecure and most crime filled place on earth, and during the Saddam's years at least the crime (murder, rape, kidnappings, slavery) was almost nonexistant.

Saddam used his charm and magicstick to make the Kurds and Shiites follow his dictatorship.

[Uninen]

Posting blatantly anti-American rhetoric as much as you do only angers me and most of the others on this Forum.

If posting the truth of the things is whats making you all so foking mad then fine, ill quit.

It really is everybodys loss that actually wants to know the reality and the truth.

I know the truth without posting it to here, but its all of you that make me so sad, with all that misinformation and ignorance.

But suit yourself, cause i really dont care. :petting:

[Fintin]

see here is the truth unic....you post flames....post articals it you want...but dont spin them in a manner that belittles any nation or people...then people would like you and not want to cut deeper where your balls have been removed.....thank you have a good day :-*$

[Maine Finn]

Posting blatantly anti-American rhetoric as much as you do only angers me and most of the others on this Forum.

If posting the truth of the things is whats making you all so foking mad then fine, ill quit.

It really is everybodys loss that actually wants to know the reality and the truth.

I know the truth without posting it to here, but its all of you that make me so sad, with all that misinformation and ignorance.

But suit yourself, cause i really dont care. :petting:

Urpo.

I don't have a problem with criticism, as long as it's not posted to be flamebait. Truth is most important, I agree, but your method of throwing the truth out there is utterly tactless and often is in the middle of threads that have little if anything to do with what you're posting.

Maybe a little discretion on your part is necessary.

[Fintin]

[quote="Uninen'']all of you that make me so sad, with all that misinformation and ignorance[/b].quote]

feel free to inform us if you feel you must, but we are not ignorant...we just have different oppinions then you, please dont insult us because we dont see eye to eye....all that does is cements your ignorance for others feelings

[TriggerPuller]

TP,

How are things over there? Not too hairy, I hope. Good to see you and Argyll are paying us a visit when you can.

Are you going to bring me back something illegal so I can sell it? I need some cash. p-)E, My team had a problem getting to our AO. Iam back for a few days now but received my mobilization order today and will head back out this weekend and everything is G2G this time!
Thanks for asking.

TP

[Maine Finn]

TP,

How are things over there? Not too hairy, I hope. Good to see you and Argyll are paying us a visit when you can.

Are you going to bring me back something illegal so I can sell it? I need some cash. p-)E, My team had a problem getting to our AO. Iam back for a few days now but received my mobilization order today and will head back out this weekend and everything is G2G this time!
Thanks for asking.

TP

Good to know everything's cool. Watch out for those camel spiders!

[Fintin]

hey TP want to grab me a "fire stick" while your there i need something heavier to keep back MF, she isnt happy about the arm...thanks

[Maine Finn]

hey TP want to grab me a "fire stick" while your there i need something heavier to keep back MF, she isnt happy about the arm...thanks

Of course I'm not happy about the arm, you twit. You got me drunk off my ass before you operated. :bash:

[Jack Mehoff]

I'm willing to let MF borrow my arm. It's HUGE

[Fintin]

I'm willing to let MF borrow my arm.

what did i do to you?....ill give you a cookie....memph and i were going to get her robot arms anyways...

[Uninen]

Urpo.

Yeah, that you got right.... i guess.. its "jerk" in english, but it is also a male name...


I don't have a problem with criticism, as long as it's not posted to be flamebait. Truth is most important, I agree, but your method of throwing the truth out there is utterly tactless and often is in the middle of threads that have little if anything to do with what you're posting.

What is actually a "flamebait"? I really dont enjoy hostile arguments you know.... almost anything can be considered as a "flamebait" by at least somebody out of 6 billion people on this planet....


Maybe a little discretion on your part is necessary.

I like to get to the point, without too much nonsense... maybe that makes me "rude dog"......

[Maine Finn]

I'm willing to let MF borrow my arm.

what did i do to you?....ill give you a cookie....memph and i were going to get her robot arms anyways...

Uh, no. After that first surgery, you're not coming anywhere near me with anything sharper than a butter knife.

[nerdman]

Posting blatantly anti-American rhetoric as much as you do only angers me and most of the others on this Forum.

If posting the truth of the things is whats making you all so foking mad then fine, ill quit.

It really is everybodys loss that actually wants to know the reality and the truth.

I know the truth without posting it to here, but its all of you that make me so sad, with all that misinformation and ignorance.

But suit yourself, cause i really dont care. :petting:

I see... you know what truth is and is not….

No one and I mean no one has a monopoly on the truth!


For anyone to think their views are the "way it is" and others who do not agree are “ignorant”… is simply arrogant.

Plain and simple.

P.S. "Truth" is you have not (most likely) been to Iraq and are in no position to us the "way it is" in Iraq.

[Fintin]

your alive arnt you......then the surgery went fine

[Argyll]

Posting blatantly anti-American rhetoric as much as you do only angers me and most of the others on this Forum.

If posting the truth of the things is whats making you all so foking mad then fine, ill quit.

It really is everybodys loss that actually wants to know the reality and the truth.

I know the truth without posting it to here, but its all of you that make me so sad, with all that misinformation and ignorance.

But suit yourself, cause i really dont care. :petting:


You are only second guessing about Iraq as you wouldn't know the truth if it jumped up and bit you on the ass.
Truth based on what?.................1st hand experience?or from an abundance of media bovine scatology?
Or is it quite simply you live in cuckoo land where Petr pan visits you at night and stick's his **** in your ass.

You are the worst kind of troll on this board...............the clueless kind,get yourself a plane ticket to Iraq,and ask to go and see all the mass graves.
Law and order.................I take it you have a penal system where you live where people break laws daily,and get punished for it.........people in Glass houses should not throw stones

[Mark Sman]

abundance of media bovine scatology

he he

[Maine Finn]

Hey, good morning Argyll.

[Romulus]

1st hand experience?or from an abundance of media bovine scatology?
Or is it quite simply you live in cuckoo land where Petr pan visits you at night and stick's his **** in your ass.

rofl
Buwhahahahahahahahahah!