Hindus oppose call for swastika ban

[STIG]

Hindus oppose call for swastika ban


From correspondents in London
January 17, 2007
HINDUS in Europe are joining forces to oppose German calls for a law across the European Union banning the display of Nazi symbols, saying the swastika symbolises peace and not hate.

Hindus in Britain, the Netherlands, Belgium, France and Italy plan to visit each EU member state, European Commission leaders and members of the European Parliament to garner support for a pressure group intended to resist the German move.
Germany plans to use its presidency of the EU to launch an initiative which could lead to common laws across the bloc making it a crime to deny genocide and display Nazi symbols.
"The swastika has been around for 5,000 years as a symbol of peace. This is exactly the opposite of how it was used by Hitler," said Ramesh Kallidai of the Hindu Forum of Britain.
"It is almost like saying that the Klu Klux Klan used burning crosses to terrorise black men, so therefore let us ban the cross. How does that sound to you?"
The European umbrella group of Hindus plans to launch in the European Parliament in May.
The swastika, the symbol of Hitler's Nazi Party, is banned in Germany, which assumed the EU's six-month rotating presidency on January 1. In Hindu tradition, it is one of the religion's most sacred symbols of peace.
Germany, alarmed by a rise in far-right crime, wants to harmonise the rules for punishing offenders in member states.
"In Germany the fight against racism and xenophobia is both an historic duty and a current political concern," Germany's Justice Ministry said, laying out its plans earlier this month.
Mr Kallidai said Germany's initiative was probably well-meaning but there had been no consultations.
"Every time we see a swastika symbol in a Jewish cemetery, that of course must be condemned. But when the symbol is used in a Hindu wedding, people should learn to respect that," he said.
"In Sanskrit it means May Goodness Prevail. Just because Hitler misused the symbol, abused it and used it to propagate a reign of terror and racism and discrimination, it does not mean that its peaceful use should be banned."




http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,20867,21073276-1702,00.html

[LaoSexMachine]

I support the Hindus.

[Hiroshima]

Same here.....because, after all, if we were to ban that, might as well get the other stuff too....

[Vuk1389]

Ye Hindus!!

[D-gin]

I'm with the Hindus on this.


"The swastika has been around for 5,000 years as a symbol of peace. This is exactly the opposite of how it was used by Hitler," said Ramesh Kallidai of the Hindu Forum of Britain.

"It is almost like saying that the Klu Klux Klan used burning crosses to terrorise black men, so therefore let us ban the cross. How does that sound to you?"

[Seiyuuki]

I support their position. Most of my family are Buddhist and that symbol has also long been an important part of Buddhism too, way, way before Hitler.

[LaoSexMachine]

http://z.about.com/f/wiki/e/en/thumb/0/0f/Buddha_image_-_stone_-_with_disciple.jpg/200px-Buddha_image_-_stone_-_with_disciple.jpg


In Buddhism, the swastika was commonly used in sacred art before the days of the Buddha image. As in Hinduism, it signified auspiciousness and good fortune, but also symbolized the Buddha's footprints. The swastika has often been used to mark the beginning of Buddhist texts. In China and Japan, the Buddhist swastika was seen as a symbol of plurality, eternity, abundance, prosperity and long life.

http://www.religionfacts.com/buddhism/symbols/swastika.htm

[sir-chimp]

Insane .

[LRPV]

Time the Germans got over it...Japs in WW2 had a lot to answer for and they openly use symbols from that era. Banning something like that is just going to perpetuate some mystique about it. I see swastikas daubed on fences in my city...the kids who sprayed them probably couldn't spell nazi let alone tell you what one is...but they know the symbol is socially unacceptable.

[Loki77]

The swastika has represented Thor's hammer spinning in Norse mythology...
....When Thor(Þór,Tor), threw his Hammer in battle it returned to him magically like a boomerang, so the swastika was a perfect symbol for its spinning motion.
http://www.sunnyway.com/runes/tattoos.html
http://www.mackaos.com.au/Articles/Mjol.html

[Loki77]

http://www.sunnyway.com/runes/thorshamar.gif Thorshamar(Þórshamar)


http://www.sunnyway.com/runes/Romersdal_thors_hammer.gif
Thor's Hammer Pendant

[IraGlacialis]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/1/1c/Sauwastika.gif (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Sauwastika.gif)
Hindu and Buddhist swastika.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/2f/Flag_of_Germany_1933.svg/180px-Flag_of_Germany_1933.svg.png (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Flag_of_Germany_1933.svg)
Nazi Swastika

There was a similar issue happening because one anime used a Manji symbol and western audiences were offended, so the image was altered.

[Rictor]

The swastika has represented Thor's hammer spinning in Norse mythology...
....When Thor(Þór,Tor), threw his Hammer in battle it returned to him magically like a boomerang, so the swastika was a perfect symbol for its spinning motion.
http://www.sunnyway.com/runes/tattoos.html
http://www.mackaos.com.au/Articles/Mjol.html


The hammer boomerangs back? Wow, so Marvel actually got it right? Cool, and they say that comics are a waste of time. Pfff.

[Lov3ll]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/1/1c/Sauwastika.gif (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Sauwastika.gif)
Hindu and Buddhist swastika.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/2f/Flag_of_Germany_1933.svg/180px-Flag_of_Germany_1933.svg.png (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Flag_of_Germany_1933.svg)
Nazi Swastika

There was a similar issue happening because one anime used a Manji symbol and western audiences were offended, so the image was altered.

The Swastika faces both left and right, it's not a case of the right facing swastika = Nazi and the left facing swastika = Hindu/Buddhist

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/63/HinduSwastika.svg/142px-HinduSwastika.svg.png

Out of curiosity whats MP.nets stance on swastikas as avatars? right face banned? or all kinds banned? p-)

[Loki77]

The hammer boomerangs back? Wow, so Marvel actually got it right? Cool, and they say that comics are a waste of time. Pfff.

...I did not read Marvel,
but when i was 14 years old i read Snorra-Edda...






...Snorra-Edda is an Icelandic manual of poetics which contains many stories from Norse mythology.

[Ratamacue]

The Swastika faces both left and right, it's not a case of the right facing swastika = Nazi and the left facing swastika = Hindu/BuddhistNo, but if you see a swastika angled at 45-degrees, it's a pretty sure bet that it's affiliated with Nazism, not Hinduism or Buddhism.

[unknown1]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/63/HinduSwastika.svg/142px-HinduSwastika.svg.png



YEP THE FIGURE ABOVE IS THE REAL SWASTIK USED BY HINDUS..USED IN ALL AUSPICIOUS CERIMONIES...

[unknown1]

The swastika has represented Thor's hammer spinning in Norse mythology...
....When Thor(Þór,Tor), threw his Hammer in battle it returned to him magically like a boomerang, so the swastika was a perfect symbol for its spinning motion.
http://www.sunnyway.com/runes/tattoos.html
http://www.mackaos.com.au/Articles/Mjol.html


DID THE NAZIS HAVE ANY GERMAN NAME FOR THE SWASTIKA?
SWASTIK IS AGAIN AN OLD SANSKRIT NAME.:roll:

[Loki77]

DID THE NAZIS HAVE ANY GERMAN NAME FOR THE SWASTIKA?
SWASTIK IS AGAIN AN OLD SANSKRIT NAME.:roll:
...The Norse saw in the whirling cross, the path of Thor's hammer.






Norse Mythology is NOT connected with Nazism...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fylfot

[Alan]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/1/1c/Sauwastika.gif (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Sauwastika.gif)
Hindu and Buddhist swastika.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/2f/Flag_of_Germany_1933.svg/180px-Flag_of_Germany_1933.svg.png (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Flag_of_Germany_1933.svg)
Nazi Swastika

There was a similar issue happening because one anime used a Manji symbol and western audiences were offended, so the image was altered.

Naruto, it was on Hyuga Neji's forehead.

[Thor]

DID THE NAZIS HAVE ANY GERMAN NAME FOR THE SWASTIKA?
SWASTIK IS AGAIN AN OLD SANSKRIT NAME.:roll:
Hakenkreuz....

And I'm sorry to see that the germans once again try to eliminate liberties for the rest of Europe. It's strange that in the US (a democracy not only by name) they would never think of throwing people in jail because of political symbols. The consequence for Europe is a polarised and hostile political climate, in which prison sentences are prefered over debate. One of the biggest mistakes a regime can make is believing that using oppressive methods against minority groups would not affect the standing of the whole society.

To me democracy means not only defending your own liberties, but also defending the liberties of others.

[Loki77]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/fd/Snoldelevsunwheel.jpg/250px-Snoldelevsunwheel.jpg
The swastika shape found on the Danish
Snoldelev Stone (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snoldelev_Stone), ca. AD 800.

[khukuri]

I wouldnt ban it even if it wore a nazi swastika! And im an immigrant, its a stupid idea and contradictory,...

[Playtime]

Maybe the germans will come to a compromise and ban beef in respect for hindus... that'll sink the whole idea.

[chas]

The consequence for Europe is a polarised and hostile political climate, in which prison sentences are prefered over debate.

To me democracy means not only defending your own liberties, but also defending the liberties of others.

Riiiight... and if you loose the debate, you can still invade the country you want and blame the others. But hey, its democratic: the majority of the members of the US government voted for it, so its been a democratic decision. :roll:

[Mablod]

Why would they do that? To hide away the history? My dad own a museum about Tirpitz, and we show several items with the swastika. We have loads of germans there every year and no one have responded negatively about that, in fact most of them think that it is bad that they have to leave Germany to see real WW2 things from Germany.

[Malleus]

Just another Swastika from recent history - Finnish Air Force between '18 and '45:

The first airplane was donated — against official Swedish government opinion — by the Swedish Count Eric von Rosen (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eric_von_Rosen) in 1918. To hide a flying school advertisement on the side, he had his good luck charm, the blue swastika (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swastika), painted on the white, circular advertisement. This resulted in the "blue swastika in a white circle" symbol, which has been the symbol of the Finnish Air Force ever since. After the end of the Second World War, the airplane symbol was replaced by a roundel (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roundel) of the same colors, but the symbol remains in use in decorations and some flags.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d7/Messerschmitt_Bf_109G-2.jpg
(Wikipedia)

As for the topic, I'm with the Hindus on this - would make no sense to ban the symbol...

[awangmamat]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/fd/Snoldelevsunwheel.jpg/250px-Snoldelevsunwheel.jpg
The swastika shape found on the Danish
Snoldelev Stone (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snoldelev_Stone), ca. AD 800.

I wonder if the swastika arose in Europe and Asia independently of each other. Or if the idea actually originated from Indian teachings? After all, the ancient Egyptians and Greeks certainly knew about India.

BTW, I'm with the Hindus on this.

[Malleus]

As for the topic, I'm with the Hindus on this - would make no sense to ban the symbol...

Oh, and as for Germany, they really need to Harden The F*** Up!p-)

[koko]

Latvia also used such symbol until late 30s.

This symbol had a history and usage which dates from long before the nazis co-opted it. In Latvia, it was called the Ugunskrusts (which translates as "fire cross") and was a positive cultural symbol centuries before the first nazi was born.

Latvian made I-16 light figther
http://www.latvianaviation.com/AV%20Images/AV%20013.jpg

I-12 fighter-trainer
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/lv/d/d5/VEF_I-12_7.jpg
Later they used other symbol
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/lv/4/40/VEF_I-12_6.jpg
Last one is used by Latvian aviation today.

[Thor]

I wonder if the swastika arose in Europe and Asia independently of each other. Or if the idea actually originated from Indian teachings?
Neither, it probably has a common ancestry that goes back to pre-historic times, before the migrations into Europe and India, Iran, and other places. That's probably also why Hitler and others deemed it as a good symbol for their movement.

[koko]

"NAZI" from Korea.
http://www.crystalinks.com/swastikabuddhist.jpg
Buddhists also use this symbol.


And for the fun
http://planetquo.net/Hidden%20Institutions/US%20Base%20Swastika.bmp

Swastika building at US military base in San Diego

[Freibier]

Oh, and as for Germany, they really need to Harden The F*** Up!p-)
You need to shut ze **** up, noob p-) but I agree - while I don't want to see neonazi hordes with Hakenkreuz flags running around eastern Germany, it's not our business to tell other countries what symbols to ban ...

[Lazarou]

http://img277.imageshack.us/img277/9851/ilmavskjalippubh4.jpg

p-)

Just another Swastika from recent history - Finnish Air Force between '18 and '45:

The first airplane was donated — against official Swedish government opinion — by the Swedish Count Eric von Rosen (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eric_von_Rosen) in 1918. To hide a flying school advertisement on the side, he had his good luck charm, the blue swastika (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swastika), painted on the white, circular advertisement. This resulted in the "blue swastika in a white circle" symbol, which has been the symbol of the Finnish Air Force ever since.
A little correction: the FAF swastika symbol was designed by Finnish artist Akseli Gallen-Kallela from the basis of swastikas used in ancient Finno-Ugric ornaments. Count Rosen only painted the symbol, which coincidentally was also his symbol of good luck, on the aircraft.

[Horna]

I think that even the idea of banning an ubiquitous symbol like swastika is plain idiotic.

[sir-chimp]

Riiiight... and if you loose the debate, you can still invade the country you want and blame the others. But hey, its democratic: the majority of the members of the US government voted for it, so its been a democratic decision. :roll:

a psychosis indeed

[Thor]

A little correction: the FAF swastika symbol was designed by Finnish artist Akseli Gallen-Kallela from the basis of swastikas used in ancient Finno-Ugric ornaments. Count Rosen only painted the symbol, which coincidentally was also his symbol of good luck, on the aircraft.
Still, Count von Rosen was a NS-sympathizer, and his wife's sister was married to Hermann Göring.

[Angelino]

My town (Glendale, CA) has a bunch of antique lampposts that have swastikas on their bases (facing both left and right) on two main boulevards (Brand and Glendale). One guy from some local Jewish organization (I think he was the president or chairman or something like that) did protest and demand that they be removed some time in the mid 90s. The city council did a bit of research and came to the conclusion that they should not be removed, since these are historical items and not connected with Nazism. The city council also found that swastikas were used by a number of cultures including a few ancient Jewish synagogues!!
http://www.ci.glendale.ca.us/lampposts.asp
So far I've noticed the symbol has been sandblasted off the base of a few lampposts, but there are still several all over town. I don't think that the sandblasting is on the city council's orders.

Incidentally, the guy who did the protesting was arrested a few years later for attempting to blow up a Federal building.

[firemedic]

You need to shut ze **** up, noob p-) but I agree - while I don't want to see neonazi hordes with Hakenkreuz flags running around eastern Germany, it's not our business to tell other countries what symbols to ban ...

I also agree that Germany needs to harden the f**k up. { you gonna tell me to shut ze f**k up too };-)

[Freibier]

I also agree that Germany needs to harden the f**k up. { you gonna tell me to shut ze f**k up too };-)
Well, normally I would but today is your lucky day :-P

[Rune_X2]

1) The swastika is also an ancient Nordic symbol that has nothing to do with Nazism – and was so for more than a thousand years before anyone ever heard of Nazism. I have a book at home from 1897 on Nordic mythology with a big swastika on the first page (decorated with flowers, garlands and small chirping birds :/ ). A party in some country south of here, uses the swastika for their own purposes for 20 measly years and suddenly they want to patent its use and decide what everybody else should make of it? I think not.

2) Why is it the Germans want to internationalise their historic horrors? The Germans can ban the swastika for all I care (although I find it absurdly stupid), but why insist everybody else ban it also? Keep yer damn dirty underwear for yourself Fritz.

3) And while we're at it. If insisting on a ban on the swastika, why not ban the communistic Hammer & Sickle as well? Communism killed a great deal more people than Nazism.

[Rune_X2]

The Danish brewery Carlsberg used the swastika from the 1880's to right up to before WWII. I even think they patented it. I think Carlsberg should sue the pants of the Nazis for copyright infringement.


Here's the big granite elephants on Carlsberg original 19 century brewery in Copenhagen. They're just these years vacating the land (the now central location makes the property prices too valuable for a brewery), but the elephants have been listed as national heritage and not to be demolished.
http://www.swastika-info.com/images/europa/denmark/carlsberg_elephant2.jpg

Old Carlsberg beer.
http://www.wongoz.com/images/tr-copenhagen-carlsbergbottles.jpg