Never Forgotten

[FuturePara]

http://www.gcsdistributing.com/ToOurParents.htm
This really got to me...

[shrek]

Yes, that one hurt a little.

All of us here need to remember that we're creating another wall like this as we speak. They may not construct one for these men and women, but their names are still there, written down somewhere. Because we know this to be true, we need to honor all of their names by not whining and bitching about how we know best and that this war or that war is wrong. We should spend more time speaking the names of and writing about those who are out there as I write this, breathing their last, saying what they can, and moving on. May God bless them all!

[Rilence]

that got to me a little... :(

[Midav]

It is quite... moving.

[Abolith]

I don't know what to say....It really got to me as well. The things that they went through over there...... :( :(

[usa320]

Indeed. Very touching.

I know guys that served in nam. Some of the bravest people ive ever had the honor to work with and speak to.

God bless all our veterans. Living and not.

[FinnishMF]

Was the Vietnam war so honorable ?

"They fought for their homes" What ?!?

[FuturePara]

It doesn't say "They Fought for their Homes" it says "They Fought with Honor".
Don't turn this into some flame thread. This isn't to debate the Vietnam War, it's to pay tribute to the brave men and women who served during it.

[shrek]

Thank you Future, this is a perfect example of how people like him cruise around looking for a fight. I would love to give them one, in person that is! Honestly, I think most of them would have to ask their mother if they could go outside first.

[Trigger]

^Bullseye.

[usa320]

He shoots, he score...

Wa-cha-cha..!.

[Red]

Touching stuff,those guys went through hell and came back out.Tough stuff

[FinnishMF]

It doesn't say "They Fought for their Homes" it says "They Fought with Honor".
Don't turn this into some flame thread. This isn't to debate the Vietnam War, it's to pay tribute to the brave men and women who served during it.
I don't look for a fight :) Maybe I'll look it again more closer.

[Maine Finn]

Thank you Future, this is a perfect example of how people like him cruise around looking for a fight. I would love to give them one, in person that is! Honestly, I think most of them would have to ask their mother if they could go outside first.

Me too, Shrek. They're giving all of us a bad reputation. :|

[Aussie E]

Moving clip. These things are here to remind us that many people sacrificed many things for their brothers and sisters.
God Bless
Lest We Forget

[seruriermarshal]

Freedom will win ......

Never Forget

[Hellman109]

Woah.... I dont have the time to watch it all cause Im at work but woah.... I have no sound on so Im definatly going to watch it all when I get home.

goes to show a picture paints a thousand words....

[rob]

what really sickens me is that someone[Kerry] who called all veterans "baby killers" and "murderers" among other things is now a presidential candidate. :(

these men went threw hell and back and when they got home and where spit on by people. unfortunatly the people couldn't tell the difference between the war itself and the men that fought it.

[Dennis G]

excellent

Thenks, Dennis

[Dennis G]

what really sickens me is that someone[Kerry] who called all veterans "baby killers" and "murderers" among other things is now a presidential candidate. :(

these men went threw hell and back and when they got home and where spit on by people. unfortunatly the people couldn't tell the difference between the war itself and the men that fought it.

agreed

[FuturePara]

What makes that even worse is that Kerry was a veteran of the war himself.

[alphabet]

Believe it or not, it brought tear to my eye; albeit a small one. People who mock and curse those who went to fight, who went to do their duty, may they be ignored. People like that deserve no place on this country. The dedicated Servicemen and women who fought and died for this great nation, may they continue to live on. May they never be forgotten in all our hearts and minds. I thank everyone who was or is in uniform for protecting us. We can do nothing but honor them. But forgetting them ? I won't let it happen, we can't let it happen.

The helicopter war that happened many moons ago, may God watch over the souls of the deceased and continue to watch over all veterans of forein wars. Thank You. Marines, Army, Airforce, or Navy, it doesn't matter. They were all there, they did the time; they walked through the valley of the shadow of death and feared no evil. They did it. They did it for me, for you, for eachother. And that can NEVER be forgotten. Take care.

Sincerely,

Ryan.

[Uninen]

Vietnam released figures on April 3, 1995 that a total of one million Vietnamese combatants and four million civilians were killed in the war. The accuracy of these figures has generally not been challenged. It is unclear how many Vietnamese were wounded in the war.

So much for the "honor" as out of every 5 Vietnamese killed, 4 were civilians.

Also this ear and head cutting thing that some US Troops "exercised", i dont know how does that actually fits in to the "honor".


It is also difficult to say exactly what counts as a "Vietnam war casualty"; people are still being killed today by unexploded ordnance, particularly cluster bomblets. Environmental effects from chemical agents and the colossal social problems caused by a devastated country with so many dead surely caused many more lives to be shortened. In addition, the Khmer Rouge would probably not have come into power and committed their slaughters without the destabilization of the war, particularly of the American bombing campaigns to 'clear out the sanctuaries' in Cambodia.

:bash:

[Vance]

I'm wondering if you ever shut the hell up.

[Uninen]

I'm wondering if you ever shut the hell up.

Why should i? I watched the presentation, and i was appalled by the BS factor and blunt lies of it.

And frankly, i wont let anybody get away thinking that there was something good / just / honourable in that war, cause there werent.

It was basicly that the whole South-East Asia was a USA:s free fire zone, for a -/+ 10 years.

[Ratamacue]

Uninen, I encourage you to read this topic:

http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=3376

[FuturePara]

Did you not read my earlier post?
Is it too hard to keep this thread from turning into a friggen arguement?

[M1A2U2]

I think he should be banned for insulting our veterans. BTW uninen you can thank a democrat for that war.

[SEALInTheMaking]

Uninen, this thread is not meant to be an argument about the war. We're trying to pay respects to our countrymen who gave their lives in that conflict. If you want to discuss the ethics of the Vietnam War, then open a new thread. Don't spoil this one with your bulls**t.

[Uninen]

I think he should be banned for insulting our veterans. BTW uninen you can thank a democrat for that war.

I wont "thank" anybody...... and neither should you or anybody else, but you should blame Nixon for most of it.

And i do actually feel sorry for every American killed in there, they also were victims of the maddness (yes plain and simple insanity of it all....) of this unjust and mostly illegal war.

Futhermore, i think that every American should once a year visit the "memorial wall" so that you would REMEMBER truly whats it all about and maybe this would lessen your "urge" to have wars.... :|

And SEALInTheMaking,

There was no "bulls**t" from my part, just cold facts.... the truth, but in that your partially right that maybe i should have not brought it up.

Sorry.

[Maine Finn]

So much for the "honor" as out of every 5 Vietnamese killed, 4 were civilians.

Also this ear and head cutting thing that some US Troops "exercised", i dont know how does that actually fits in to the "honor".
:bash:

I'm getting tired of seeing this same rhetoric crop up every time someone posts something about the United States and/or her veterans who have fought and died. Why can't you shut up for one thread and just let the original meaning stand unspoilt, instead of ruining it with this crap. I don;t understand why you feel the need to post when it's almost certain to start a flame war. Why do you do it? Are you determined to take an otherwise meaningful thread and turn into an insult-fest?

The actions of a few should never tarnish the sacrifice and courage of many. US troops fought with honour and courage in that war, and in every war before and since. Is that such a hard concept to accept?

Kiinni jalkeilla ja taaksepäin lähettää ajaksi aikoinaan.

[M1A2U2]

Uninen, yes innocent people died, they always die. Thats called war. Look it up sometime. If you dont believe these soldiers fought with honor then according to you, every soldier in the history of warfare never fought with honor. As for the cutting ears off, if you gonna mention that please mention the torture methods of the NVA and VC. Of course you wont because you hate America and everything it stands for. You hate freedom. You hate the fact we help people in the world, you hate the fact that we have the strongest military, you hate the fact that we love our country, you hated it when the iraqis cheered us in the streets, you hate the fact that we have liberated more people than any country in history, you hate the fact that we give the most foreign aid out of any country in the world, you hate that we help people, you hate that we have never lost a war (if you dont consider pulling out of vietnam losing, i dont wanna get into this) you hate that we have done so many good things because this makes you and your little worthless country feel unimportant in the UN, you hate that we created the UN and that we will always support the values of freedom and democracy. Every good thing America does makes you feel threatened so you go and try and find the bad things America has done. You secretly thank God for America every night but you would never let anyone know it. You jump for joy when something bad happens in Iraq or when one of our soldiers dies. This all boils down to the fact that you are just jealous. Everynight when I go to sleep it gives me a warm feeling to know that jealous critics like yourself are spending hours going through history and trying to uncover mistakes America has made. When I hear the useless dribble you find I get to laugh. Keep it up Uninen keep hating us because of who we are and keep in mind that even though our history of good deeds makes you sick, we would still come to liberate you from oppresion.

[Fintin]

hey MF....do you like gyros....and ping pong...stupid tennis people.....

[Jack Mehoff]

Uninen wrote:

MERC:s have about as much rights as do have spies.. they can capture them and shoot them in the back of the head if they wish.. without braking any "laws" of course that isnt fair and ****.. but..

[Maine Finn]

Can we not encourage the further deterioration of this thread?

[SEALInTheMaking]

My computer finally loaded the video. Excellent; excellent video. Makes me proud just to belong to the same country as those men and women.

[Fintin]

exactly thats why im buying the gyros, and setting up the ping pong table...

[FuturePara]

Thanks MF and everone trying to keep this the way I had originally intended it to be.
:hug:

[DE_Six]

Moving.

It's a good thing that Vietnam veterans be honored, even though the country was and is still divided about the war. These men served their country, most of them honorably, and they did not deserved the harsh treatment they received back home.

One of the reasons why Vietnam veterans are afflicted with PTSD and other war-related disorders in such disproportionate numbers compared to the previous generations of american soldiers is just because of that, because they did not get any form of recognition or comfort from their fellow countrymen and women to help them rationalize the horrible deeds they carried out in combat and deal with the inevitable burden that comes with it. Lt.Col. Grossman pointed out the importance of popular support and recognition from the public as critical in the process of recovery from combat. Vietnam veterans were unfairly denied this support, and it's never too late to express our gratitude,for these men and women gorw old and slowly fade away.

The individuals who took part in the war were not responsible for it. Most of them were draftees, they weren't even willing to fight it. Many of them disagreed with it, but they answered the call nonetheless. That is why it is fair to say they fought for their country. Not because America's territorial integrity was compromised, but because the government decided of a course of action, albeit an unpopular one, and called up its young men and women. Regardless of the government's motives, those who answered the call deserve respect and recognition.

If those veterans suffer today in disproportionate numbers, it's because too many forgot those simple facts. Those who spat on the returning soldiers aimed all their political frustration on them, regardless of the fact that had the draft turned out differently, they could well be the ones returning scarred forever. Soldiers got insulted by their former high school "friends", ex-girlfriends or simply by strangers on the street. No soldier deserves this kind of treatment. These men needed support just as much if not more than the returning heroes of WW2. They had fought a difficult, frustrating war, they fought alone (blame the individual replacement system for that) and they knew very well how unpopular the war was and how they had little support from the population. Instead, they received hate and contempt from those who couldn't get over their personal political views and frustrations, people so blinded by their antiwar position they denied the simplest gestures of sympathy and comfort to men and women who had suffered more than they could ever imagined.

This is what movies like these are about. So much has been said and written about the war, from all angles, from politics to weaponry, but the social stigma of the veterans has been ignored. Their stories are known, yet, it seems they are never thanked for their sacrifice. That this trend be now reversed can only be beneficial.

To the people here who try to turn this into a political argument, I have to things to say to you. First, you are no better than those who spat on the returning GIs. If that makes you proud, take your disorder elsewhere. You are so obsessed with whatever grudge you hold against this war or the US or whatever, that you refuse to honor men who made sacrifices you probably won't ever have to make. You're too blinded by your egocentristic political opinions to grant these men what they deserve. We don't need this kind of input. Start your own thread.
Second, whatever pleasure you get off of mentioning that Vietnam was a dishonorable war, that is veterans are somehow unworthy of our gratitude, you need to get a grip. Vietnam appears to be a dishonorable war only because of the exposure it got form the media. Every war, be it labeled just or not, is occasion for countless abuses, crimes, atrocities and political deception. If you think it has ever been different anywhere, at any given time in history, you need to do some serious homework. Even the oh-so-noble WW2 to liberate the world from fascism was ground for countless atrocities, and I'm not talking about what the Nazis did.

The fact that abuses were committed in Vietnam will not prevent me (and I hope others like me) from being grateful and supportive of the veterans because the very fact they survived war , at such a high cost, entitles them to that respect. There is no Vietnam veteran in my family, but a firend of my uncle served there (he moved here in the eighties), and although I've always treated him with the typical boyhood mix of respect and fascination, I think I'm going to get in touch with him and try (yeah, try) to express my deepest support and sympathy for what he did. It just hit me. I have to do it. And if that movie and this thread made me think of it, it's a goddamn good thing.