SPR/Mk11/Mk12 - why 20 Round mags?

[DeadMeatXM2]

Ok, I did a cursory search (spr and 20 are "to short or too common" to search for, even in combo) and didnt find anything specific. So:

Looking at pics of these rifles, they always use 20 round mags, regardless of the country or service using them.

Is there any specific reason for using the 20 round mags, like more reliable round feed? Or is it just something that has happened because "thats what everyone else does"?

[qwerty2]

Because with a 30round mag firing from the ****e position is much more difficult if not impossible, and seeing as both weapons you have mentioned are designated marksmen or sniper rifles, ****e firing is common.

[Hydro]

DMR's also need a fair magazine capacity for use in extended combat. 30 round 7.62 mags are too long for both ****e firing, and magazine pouches become bulky.

[DeadMeatXM2]

Ahh, yeah. I never thought of the ****e-firing issue (one assumes that its doable with the M4/M16, it should be doable with the 5.56 DMR's too)

Makes sense, nice p-)

[Charlie dont surf]

Because with a 30round mag firing from the ****e position is much more difficult if not impossible, and seeing as both weapons you have mentioned are designated marksmen or sniper rifles, ****e firing is common.


spr is 7.62 mm?

[ZoneOne]

Ahh, yeah. I never thought of the ****e-firing issue (one assumes that its doable with the M4/M16, it should be doable with the 5.56 DMR's too)

Makes sense, nice p-)

Well if you ever have a chance to fire a m4/m16 you will see the ****e firing w/ a 30rnd magazine is kind of odd. The magazine is rested on the ground and depending on what you are wearing you have to lift your head up even higher to aim.

Best method I have found is to turn the rifle either to the left or to the right depending on preference to get the magazine up off the ground and to keep a low profile. Works a lot better w/ a reflex - red dot sight as it is easier to aim.

[DeadMeatXM2]

Well if you ever have a chance to fire a m4/m16 you will see the ****e firing w/ a 30rnd magazine is kind of odd. The magazine is rested on the ground and depending on what you are wearing you have to lift your head up even higher to aim.

I've not had any experience with the AR-15 family, but I never noticed any "problems" when firing L85 or L98 weapons with 30 round magazines (we always fired from the ****e position with live rounds in the L98, and only ever fired blanks in the L85)

[jagermeister]

ive shot alot off of bipods and normal ****e and ive yet to have the 30 round mags bother me....

[Sir Zach of R.]

spr is 7.62 mm?

Mk11/SR25 is 7.62. The SPR is 5.56

[SoliDeoGloria]

i know this is a little off the topic of SPRs...but what do yall think about Leitner Wise rifles? Like their SRT or DMR?

[Mach6]

DMR's also need a fair magazine capacity for use in extended combat. 30 round 7.62 mags are too long for both ****e firing, and magazine pouches become bulky.

Correct, the US military has looked at this extensively and has concluded that 20-rd mags are optimal for most 7.62mm NATO gas guns. The Navy has looked at some 30 rd mags and the the newer Beta Mag of late and is so far, unimpressed in this application. Same goes for the venerable M14.

[Hollis]

I guess you have to look at what the firearm is made for and what firearms are already available. Also roughly a 30 rd 308 mag full, would weight about the same as a 60 rd 5.56 mag. Figure you carry half the number of 308 than you do 5.56 in terms of quantity.

Also, look at belt fed firearms, what they are for. You just can not carry everything for every contingency. That is why the military sets up squads, platoons etc. A soldier is part of a team, not just a solo warrior.

A sniper does not use a weapon that is design for suppressing fire. A weapon for suppressing fire is not a long range single shot sniper weapon. Unlike video games where a player can carry a 1/2 ton of assorted munitions a real life soldier can not. They need to carry what their current mission calls for.

[DeadMeatXM2]

...A sniper does not use a weapon that is design for suppressing fire. A weapon for suppressing fire is not a long range single shot sniper weapon. Unlike video games where a player can carry a 1/2 ton of assorted munitions a real life soldier can not. They need to carry what their current mission calls for.

The weight issue aside (which is a perfectly legitimate arguement), people that use the three weapons in the thread title are NOT "Snipers" they're Marksmen. And they have a very different role in combat, which requires a much higher ammo load. Hence the question, especially for the 5.56 rifles.

[James]

Well if you ever have a chance to fire a m4/m16 you will see the ****e firing w/ a 30rnd magazine is kind of odd. The magazine is rested on the ground and depending on what you are wearing you have to lift your head up even higher to aim.


Where on earth did you learn to do that? :cantbeli:

[scrybe]

Ha, hahahhaa.

[Seraphim]

Where on earth did you learn to do that? :cantbeli:

Dont ask him, its classified.

Are they still teaching no mags on the deck?

[deagle]

Because with a 30round mag firing from the ****e position is much more difficult if not impossible, and seeing as both weapons you have mentioned are designated marksmen or sniper rifles, ****e firing is common.

i too have also noticed taht the curved magazines may make ****e firing a bit difficult. Have they considered changing the shape of the mag ?

[Hollis]

i too have also noticed taht the curved magazines may make ****e firing a bit difficult. Have they considered changing the shape of the mag ?


Magazine shape has a lot to do with cartridge shape. a Taper case requires a magazine with a curve.

[James]

How is this in any way difficult?

http://img408.imageshack.us/img408/4130/m16soldier22fi.jpg

[LaoSexMachine]

I never had any diffulty with the M16 magazine when I shot in the ****e. The only problem I had was with the kevlar getting in the way of my aiming.

[Former Gold Falcon]

Never understood the whole "shoot with the mag off the ground while in the ****e" doctrine. Yeah,, I've heard the various pie-in-the-sky reasons why this is taboo.

From basic on, I was always willing to use the mag as a field expedient monopod. Never had any feeding problems nor failed to score less then 38 out of 40 for qualifying while doing so.

Sides, bipods are only deployed if you plan to stick around for awhile AND you have decent cover/concelement....

My .02


T.