RUC 'colluded with loyalist killers'

[Lov3ll]

The extent of collusion between police and a loyalist murder gang in the last years of the Northern Ireland Troubles is to be revealed in an official report today.

Peter Hain, the Northern Ireland Secretary, described the report’s findings as devastating. But he appealed to republicans not to let it distract them as they prepared for a special conference on policing in the Province, which is essential to the restoration of a power-sharing, devolved administration.



The document, by Nuala O’Loan, the Policing Ombudswoman, focuses on the activities of a unit of the Ulster Volunteer Force which contained a number of Royal Ulster Constabulary informers.

The UVF’s Mount Vernon unit was led by Mark Haddock, who is in prison for a hatchet attack on a nightclub doorman. It is suspected that he was a paid police informer.

The report details a number of murders linked to theunit and concludes that senior RUC officers knew about its activities but did not intervene.

The public version of the report is understood not to contain names.

But Mrs O’Loan has sent a confidential dossier to Mr Hain and Sir Hugh Orde, the Chief Constable of the Police Service of Northern Ireland, which replaced the RUC as part of the peace process. In it, she names Special Branch and CID officers as well as the UVF agents they ran.

The inquiry began by looking into the killing of Raymond McCord Jr, 22, a former RAF man who was beaten to death in November 1997. It then widened to examine other murders, including that of Sharon McKenna, 27, a Roman Catholic taxi driver, in 1993.

Mrs O’Loan’s staff gathered information about a series of other victims, including the loyalist Tommy English, who was shot during a paramilitary feud, and the Presbyterian church minister David Templeton, who was attacked and killed in his home in 1997.

Mr Hain said: “In my view the ombudsman’s report is devastating about the past and especially about the murder of Raymond McCord and other related murders. It is a devastating indictment of that period of policing in the 1990s, but the PSNI has since come into being and policing has been radically transformed.”

Mr Hain appealed to republicans to remember that the events covered by the report were in the past.

Gerry Adams and the Sinn Fein leadership are engaged in a series of meetings with the party’s grassroots membership to urge them to support the PSNI and pave the way for a power-sharing deal with the Democratic Unionist Party, led by the Rev Ian Paisley.

Mr Hain added: “I would hope that republicans in the run-up to their critical meeting at the Ard Fheis [party conference] next weekend would take the advice of Gerry Adams that if they still have remaining concerns about policing, the best way to influence that is to sign up to supporting policing and the rule of law as a matter of fundamental principle.

“They should participate in the district policing partnerships, as they are entitled to do, and take their seats on the policing board as Sinn Fein representatives are entitled to do. That is how they can best answer the concerns raised in this report.”

Sinn Fein will be looking to Tony Blair and Bertie Ahern to reactivate cross-border bodies if their power-sharing plan fails, Martin McGuinness said.

The Prime Minister and the Taoiseach hope to persuade the DUP to share power with republicans by March 26.

Mr McGuinness told a crowd of more than 200 in Lurgan that there was no way he would ask young nationalists to sign up to a British police service.

He said: “We have made it clear that in the event of power-sharing not happening the two governments would have to move on to Plan B . . . What is Plan B? It is the unfreezing of the all-Ireland institution body.”

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2-2559738.html
http://www.guardian.co.uk/Northern_Ireland/Story/0,,1995664,00.html
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/01/22/nruc22.xml

[a_very_ex_STAB]

Well members of the Garda collaborated with Irish Republican killers too.

[marktigger]

and remember the RUC were fighting a war against terrorists Long before the USA stopped paying for them.

[Imshi-Yallah]

Well members of the Garda collaborated with Irish Republican killers too.

There is a difference between collaboration and infiltration, it might upset your hero fantasies to know that the Garda Special Branch is vehemently anti-republican as are the Defence Forces.

There were however successful infiltrations (and of British Security elements too) of both organisations, requiring a purge every few years although in this day and age it is much easier to keep subversives out in the first instance.

Before having a kneejerk reaction about people taking sides against the RUC or UK government (not an IRA fan myself believe it or not) consider this, it was an investigation into the murder of a Northern Unionist which prompted these findings.

The issue at hand is not the dirtying of the RUC, although some will always sling whatever mud they can. It is the bringing to light of a wrong committed by individuals who are trusted by their society to do better.

[a_very_ex_STAB]

There is a difference between collaboration and infiltration, it might upset your hero fantasies...

Huh?:roll:

[wilhelm]

Wow...tell us something new. There was a de facto Apartheid situation in Northern Ireland for many years anyway. Catholics were excluded from the RUC until relatively recently for example. Now you tell us that the RUC were not impartial??? Everybody knew that long ago.

I guess the only way to sort it out is if the entire Ireland have a vote. They might not want Northern Ireland now that they are better off than the British. The Catholics will be in the majority in NI in our lifetimes anyway.

[oldsoak]

Catholics were not excluded from the RUC. Those that did join were targetted by the IRA, which meant they didnt stay. The use of loyalist factions follows a rather well known principle when fighting a guerilla war - you help the side that backs you. Its what we do in Afghanistan, Iraq and anywhere else and yes, its distasteful and wrong - but why fight two factions when you can be free to deal with one ?
The RUC was predominantly loyalist simply because the nationalists wouldnt join and those RC's who were middle of the road and joined became outcasts in their communities. What made it worse was that the the loyalists regarded anyone RC as being potential IRA sympathisers. Double whammy. This was a simplistic breakdown of which community supported which political aim and the mentality drove a lot of persecution on both sides.
As for IRA sympathisers in the Guarda, we get BNP sympathisers in the UK police - you cant tell someone who to sympathise with - that there were IRA sympathisers and abetters in the border area is not suprising, and events such as bloody Sunday didnt help. To be fair, the suspect Guarda were purged every so often. A more serious note was the purchase of weapons for the IRA by Haughey and Capt. Kelly of the Irish army in 1969, Haughey was in the Irish government as finance minister at the time. The plot was uncovered, but the trial collapsed which did little to convince the British that the Irish Republic did not turn a blind eye to IRA activites. Further incidences of failure to succesfully prosecute IRA terrorists did little to help this perception. The British for their part used the loyalist paramilitaries for intel and worse, although killings were not officially sanctioned. Paramilitaries were often from criminal backgrounds and both sides traded with the criminal underworld, so the intelligence services made use of the loyalist gangs in the hope that one would lead to another.

[wilhelm]

A commendably balanced, even- handed, and well thought out answer, Oldsoak. I do, however, disagree about RC and the RUC. Perhaps they could join...I could have perhaps been a little less clumsy. There was most definitely a 'glass ceiling' regarding RC considering promotion though. But then again, this was prevelent throughout NI re RC and not necessarily only in the RUC.

Either way, this news was not a surprise. I just hope that the people of NI can put these terrible 90 years behind them.

[oldsoak]

Absolutely - thats my hope and the hope of many others too. I think we should have had a truth commision like the S Africans did, but I suspect that would have been a little too uncomfortable for all parties - too much dirty washing might have been exposed and some popular myths exposed on both sides. It would, however, have been an opportunity to clear the air and have done with it.

[Imshi-Yallah]

Hear, hear.

Incidentally SF have been pushing for a policing board down here for the last number of years even while vehemently opposing the one in the North.

I wonder which files they would want to see first...

[Ordie]

Gambling!!!

I'm shocked...I'm shocked

Round up the usual suspects...

-Casablanca

[muttbutt]

Well members of the Garda collaborated with Irish Republican killers too.
The odd Garda, doing it is slightly different to the widescale and deep level of RUC involvement, but as Imshi said, the SB and DF here dispise the IRA, but if your saying the GS collaborated and helped paramilitaries on anywhere near the scale of certain units of the RUC, well your wrong......way.

infact the IRA have killed members of both the GS and the DF....

[a_very_ex_STAB]

The odd Garda, doing it is slightly different to the widescale and deep level of RUC involvement, but as Imshi said, the SB and DF here dispise the IRA, but if your saying the GS collaborated and helped paramilitaries on anywhere near the scale of certain units of the RUC, well your wrong......way.

infact the IRA have killed members of both the GS and the DF....

Fair enough.

As long as members of the British security forces who collaborated with Loyalist terrorists get the same of lack of punishment that has been extended to IRA terrorists as part of the peace process.

[wilhelm]

...not forgetting the loyalist terrorists. But really, the security forces should be above the common terrorist (that's why they are called terrorists!) and therefore should be punished.

[a_very_ex_STAB]

...not forgetting the loyalist terrorists. But really, the security forces should be above the common terrorist (that's why they are called terrorists!) and therefore should be punished.

How do you propose our security services infiltrate terrorist cells without getting their hands dirty then? Their sources can't turn around and make feeble excuses excuses every time they're ordered to do an op can they?

[wilhelm]

How do you propose our security services infiltrate terrorist cells without getting their hands dirty then? Their sources can't turn around and make feeble excuses excuses every time they're ordered to do an op can they?

Perhaps a more even handed approach to terrorism and the penetration thereof. Haven't heard of any collusion with IRA terrorists involving murders. That, in a nutshell, sums up why the RUC and the British were so poorly regarded by 40% of the population. A murderer is a murderer, wether loyalist or republican.

[a_very_ex_STAB]

Perhaps a more even handed approach to terrorism and the penetration thereof. Haven't heard of any collusion with IRA terrorists involving murders.

Well it's not strictly equivalent but the British security services were able to turn leading members of the IRA/SF. One in particular Fred Scappaticci was the head of the 'nutting squad' which gave the security services the ability to have IRA members framed as informers and then killed by their own side. Devious huh!

[a_very_ex_STAB]

Perhaps a more even handed approach to terrorism and the penetration thereof. Haven't heard of any collusion with IRA terrorists involving murders. That, in a nutshell, sums up why the RUC and the British were so poorly regarded by 40% of the population. A murderer is a murderer, wether loyalist or republican.

The British security services were never going to win a popularity contest in that section of the population anyway irrespective of their actions or inactions because of the grip behind the scenes that the IRA had on what they saw as 'their' communities.
As Chairman Mao said 'All power comes through the barrel of a gun'

[marktigger]

Interesting isn't it the RUC were hated by both sides during their history so obviously they were doing their job in an impartial manner and they were certainly a more professional force than the clowns I encountered on the mainland and in the states.

As to colusion between the Irish Police and Armed forces I sure there was the bad apples just as there were north of the border.

As to Sein Fein and the elected representitives of loyalist paramilitaries joining the policing board they are still up to their necks in crime and both groups wanted the police of their backs hence the lies and spin about the RUC now the criminals will be involved in running the police.

I have met Roman Catholic Police officers and there was no artifical ceilings on promotion. They were brave men and women who put up with alot from their own community and at times from the bad apples in the RUC. 2 of the best honest down to earth coppers i ever met in Northern Ireland were Catholics. (one even led the orange order down the ormeau road in Belfast before the IRA shot him in the head infront of his wife and kids). The same IRA that sein fein represents

[muttbutt]

Fair enough.

As long as members of the British security forces who collaborated with Loyalist terrorists get the same of lack of punishment that has been extended to IRA terrorists as part of the peace process.
I won't disagree on that...we're looking at the dim but possible future of Sinn Fein in Government here....:|

[wilhelm]

I think it inevitable that Ireland will become one nation. I think that they have been fighting occupation for something like 800 years on and off, making it one of the longest freedom fights in history. This in no way condones the atrocities committed by both sides, just the end result I believe will happen.

[a_very_ex_STAB]

I think it inevitable that Ireland will become one nation. I think that they have been fighting occupation for something like 800 years on and off, making it one of the longest freedom fights in history. This in no way condones the atrocities committed by both sides, just the end result I believe will happen.

I'm not convinced by that.
Ever since the so-called peace process started the different communities inside Ulster have actually become more and more polarized instead of more integrated. The middle ground parties like the Alliance and SDLP have been squeezed out and the votes have gone to the DUP and Sinn Fein.
I also don't think the government of the Irish Republic actually wants to handle this particular sh1t sandwich all on it's own despite paying lip service to notions of a united Ireland.

[oldsoak]

I'm not convinced by that.
Ever since the so-called peace process started the different communities inside Ulster have actually become more and more polarized instead of more integrated. The middle ground parties like the Alliance and SDLP have been squeezed out and the votes have gone to the DUP and Sinn Fein.
I also don't think the government of the Irish Republic actually wants to handle this particular sh1t sandwich all on it's own despite paying lip service to notions of a united Ireland.

I'm not sure that the folks south of the border want NI with its factions just now. They would rather the old spectres be gone a few years before they went down that road, imho. The RoI has a good economy thats doing well, has been stable for years since the civil war - what would they want with a North right now ? A lot of Irish I've met arent that bothered about re-unification.

[wilhelm]

I was referring to unification in the context of an 800 year struggle. I agree that it won't happen tomorrow, or even in the next 5 years. But.....

I believe that the R. Catholic segment of the population has a higher birth rate and so will probably be in the majority within our lifetime. Then also, if the Republics economy remains stable and prosperous, you may find the new generation would rather be associated with that.

Also considering that the English settled large amounts of Scots in NI as an "Ethnic Cleansing Lite" measure, and that the Scots are derived from a mixture of the Picts and Scotti (who were Irish), that makes the more recent (historically speaking) settlers half Irish anyway.p-) So where's the problem?

[futurepilot2004]

I was referring to unification in the context of an 800 year struggle.

Despite the popular belief that the "Irish" have been fighting for their freedom for 800 years, it is simply not true.
Even the idea of a united island only really came about in the 18th century. From then on, the vast majority of Irish people were not interested in becoming an idependant state from Great Britain but merely wasnt a degree of autonomy to control its own taxes etc etc.
Even at the time of the 1916 rising, the majority of southern Irish were still only interested in Home Rule.To put it in perspective, 250,000 Irishmen joined the British army during WW1 compared to the 400-500 who rebelled in Dublin.

Back to now, those in favour of a united Ireland are actually in the minority in the republic and with regards to an armed struggle to achieve that, over 95% of this country voted to remove our claim on the north which was a clear rejection of the PIRA and their methods.

[ocdt goose]

I think it inevitable that Ireland will become one nation.


I think most Irish people in the Republic hope it will never happen. If it ever comes close, we will all be back to square one, although it will end up in another spate of troubles with loyalist groups trying to break away from the Republic.

Ireland has done very well over the last 10 to 20 years and having to support another 6 counties along with the possiblity of terrorism or possibly a civil war is not worth thinking about. It would end up crippling our economy at best. The Republic will always have a special relationship with the North and that is all we need.

[marktigger]

In discussions with friends from the Irish republic they Balk at the Ideal of a united Ireland espically the one party 32 county state proposed by sein fein. When probed why, their answers were interesting. They didn't want the nationalists from up north who they saw as having a culture of state dependence and something as of right for nothing in return. They saw the Unionists as hard working and self reliant who would be a boon for the Irish economy.

It is also fairly common knowledge that SB and the various sneaky beaky orginisations would cover for their informants nationalist and loyalist. so to say colusion wasn't even handed is a bit disingenuous. Its just politically expiedient to highlight colusion with loyalist paramilitaries at the minite.

BTW didn't stalker and stevens inquireys saw basically the same? So isn't this just another bit of O'loan wasting more taxpayers money. If her office is so useful for the practice of Law enforcement they why don't the Garda or any of the mainland forces have an equivilent office? instead of wasting your and my money.

[a_very_ex_STAB]

In discussions with friends from the Irish republic they Balk at the Ideal of a united Ireland espically the one party 32 county state proposed by sein fein. When probed why, their answers were interesting. They didn't want the nationalists from up north who they saw as having a culture of state dependence and something as of right for nothing in return.

That's right. I have Irish friends who say the same. There is a massive 'dependency' culture among the republicans in Ulster.
The Irish Republic doesn't need or want the problem.

[9mmRifle]

Despite the popular belief that the Irish have been fighting for their freedom for 800 years, it is simply not true. . Are you sure you're an Irish person ? Never hear about Rebellion of 1798, Charles Stewart Parnell, Hibernia, Society of the United Irishmen, Eamon de Valera, Brian Boru, Irish War of Independence, Catholic Emancipation of Penal Laws, Rebellion of 1641 ? Irishmen

[futurepilot2004]

Are you sure you're an Irish person ? Never hear about Rebellion of 1798, Charles Stewart Parnell,
yes I am.... do some research, Parnell never once asked for a Irish republic, only home rule. They are two completly different things. And every rebellion or group you`ve mentioned were a tiny minority up until(as I said) post 1916.

[Exo1]

Despite the History, the republic of Ireland's aim for a united Ireland now is only lip service to the hardliners who jump up and down to "a nation once again"..... more change of a federal Europe then a 32 county Ireland. Hats off to the peacemakers on all sides, allot has being done to redress the imbalance and discrimination against the Nationalist Community up north. 90% of people I know including myself would be replulsed by a Sinn Fein Govt in south.... different up north for many reasons, but I think getting them to take charge of their own province is the way to go...