U.S. Contractor Fired for Military Coffin Photo

[Uncle Sam]

http://www.*******.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=topNews&storyID=4912910&section=news


WASHINGTON (*******) - A U.S. contractor and her husband have been fired after her photograph of 20 flag-draped coffins of U.S. soldiers going home from Iraq was published in violation of military rules.

"I lost my job and they let my husband go as well," Tami Silicio, who loaded U.S. military cargo at Kuwait International Airport for a U.S. company, told ******* in an e-mail response to questions.

The Pentagon tightly restricts publication of photographs of coffins with the remains of U.S. soldiers and has forbidden journalists from taking pictures at Dover Air Force Base, the first stop for the bodies of U.S. soldiers being sent home.

The military says the policy is in place to protect the privacy of families of those killed, but critics have said the rules are aimed at sanitizing the war for the public.

The Seattle Times printed Silicio's photograph last weekend and again on Thursday. The picture shows soldiers tending to 20 coffins completely covered with American flags on April 7 inside a military cargo plane at the Kuwait airport.

Silicio, who was raised in the Seattle area, was not paid by the newspaper for the picture, which a friend in the United States, Amy Katz, passed on to the newspaper. Katz said she had since found an agent to sell the photograph.

STRICT POLICY

Silicio's former employer, Colorado-based Maytag Aircraft Corp., a subsidiary of Mercury Air Group Inc. "Maytag deeply regrets these actions and fully concurs with the Pentagon's policy of respecting the remains of our brave men and women who have fallen in service to our country," said Maytag President William Silva.

The Pentagon has declined to comment on Silicio's case but spokesman James Turner said the policy of media coverage of war dead has been in effect since 1991.

"The principal focus and purpose of the policy is to protect the wishes and the privacy of the families during their time of greatest loss and grief," he said.

Katz said Silicio, whose own son died from an illness, took the picture to show the "respectful death ritual" for slain soldiers and not to make money or become famous. Other contractors and soldiers had taken similar pictures, she said.
Katz said her friend believed she was in Kuwait to "stand in for the parents who can't be here for the living and the fallen."

"Tami Silicio was only pledging allegiance to our flag and to our heroes laying beneath it," she said.

Violence has escalated over the past month in Iraq and the death toll among U.S. soldiers has risen quickly. Since the start of the war in March last year, more than 700 U.S. troops died in Iraq, Pentagon figures show. More than 100 have been killed this month alone.

The Seattle Times stood by its decision to use the photograph. Managing Editor David Boardman said it was unfortunate Silicio was fired but she was aware of the consequences when the picture was published.

"This person is not an anti-war activist," Boardman said. "Her motivation was to share with the American people and families of service people both alive and dead how these bodies are being handled and the honor and respect they are given."

[WolverineBlue]

Very strange -- not sure how I feel about this.

[Seoulstriker]

how long has this tradition been going on? 50+ years?

[HELEX]

Very strange -- not sure how I feel about this.

Bad...... for example? Since Bush was elected I always had a bad feeling about anything US related(And in my opinion Reagan was a good Pres.). :roll:

[hedgehog]

It says it in the article...since the early 90's.

[Herrmannek]

I don't like this tradition...It sounds like USA shames men who gaved their lives for good cause...

[fred_engles]

Interestingly, the government apparently doesn't actually have the right to restrict such photos, since this guy (http://www.thememoryhole.org/war/coffin_photos/dover/) successfully forced 300+ of them released by a FoIA request.

[California Joe]

That seems like an extreme reaction. The restriction on showing the coffins is a public relations issue stemming from the Vietnam era that people in Washington are still very sensitive to as it effects their jobs.

[HELEX]

Im Inspired, i will make at Topic... :roll:

[American Patriot]

It's a disrespect to the fallen to print these photos.

[HELEX]

It's a disrespect to the fallen to print these photos.

No, to keep them secret is.

[radon]

It's a disrespect to the fallen to print these photos.

????? :|

[Mr Gently Benevolent]

This woman deserved to be sacked but the policy of hiding fallen men like this is sick to say the least, there does not seem to very much pride taken in what they have done for their country. :|

[TriggerPuller]

It's a disrespect to the fallen to print these photos.

No, to keep them secret is.Secret? We know Soldiers die and their families are the only ones that need to know.

TP

P.S. do you happen to be in London?

[ibstolidude]

I don't like this tradition...It sounds like USA shames men who gaved their lives for good cause...
No it is to prevent as$holes like HELEX from using the images of these dead soldiers for their own personal arguements and gains. Who the hell is HELEX or you or I to use their images with out their consent or with out their ability to defend themselves, for our own gain.

[ibstolidude]

It's a disrespect to the fallen to print these photos.

No, to keep them secret is.which is why you can pull up the causuality lists and numbers, because it is a secret, idiot. - you lie when the truth would do.

[Hellman109]

I think the manner in which the pictures are shown says if there is respect or not, these were.

Now a certain software company changing a certain picture of soldiers, I would castrate whoever thought that one up.

There is nothing disrespectful in showing unmarked coffins draped in the soldiers flag, nor in dying for your country.

The Pentagon dont want coffins on the 6 o'clock news is what's really up here.

[ibstolidude]

Interestingly, the government apparently doesn't actually have the right to restrict such photos, since this guy (http://www.thememoryhole.org/war/coffin_photos/dover/) successfully forced 300+ of them released by a FoIA request.
FOIA is a government act - it doesn't FORCE the government to do anything - it is a standard manner in which information is made available to the public - one would know this if they actually used such an amazing thing as research.

[fred_engles]

Interestingly, the government apparently doesn't actually have the right to restrict such photos, since this guy (http://www.thememoryhole.org/war/coffin_photos/dover/) successfully forced 300+ of them released by a FoIA request.
FOIA is a government act - it doesn't FORCE the government to do anything - it is a standard manner in which information is made available to the public - one would know this if they actually used such an amazing thing as research.By 'force' the government - I meant force the Dept. of Defense. And yes, it certainly does 'force' the release of any requested document that doesn't fall under any of several specific catagories exempted by the law. Refusal to turn over documents can be challenged in Federal Court - it is an actual binding law, not merely a set of a guidelines.

[Pille1234]

It's a disrespect to the fallen to print these photos.

No, to keep them secret is.which is why you can pull up the causuality lists and numbers, because it is a secret, idiot. - you lie when the truth would do.
The hole thing is not about respect. It's one thing to see numbers and statistics of casualties, but real powerful impressions were created by pictures, by photos. Think back in history, Vietnam, 2WW/Auschwitz, even spanish civil war, I remember impressive photos, not statistics. And that is, what every government fears.

[iflu]

hell!!!! war itself is dirty, is sth does respect nothing, because the right to survive is the obligation to kill. politicians who start wars are the dirtiest creatures ever.

[martinexsquaddie]

seems a bit iffy
trying to hide the fact soldiers are dieing :(

[Sergei]

If we are talking about disrespect, I can think of a recent Electronic Gaming Monthly **** up showing Russian soldiers of Sofrino Brigade holding game boxes instead of photos of their fallen comrades.
Luckily, there is a man like PermOMON who caught them by the balls and made them issue all kinds of apologies throughout the internet community and to the relatives of those soldiers on the photo.

[Truthsayer]

If we are talking about disrespect, I can think of a recent Electronic Gaming Monthly f*** up showing Russian soldiers of Sofrino Brigade holding game boxes instead of photos of their fallen comrades.
Luckily, there is a man like PermOMON who caught them by the balls and made them issue all kinds of apologies throughout the internet community and to the relatives of those soldiers on the photo.

Offtopic: Can you give any more info about this?

[Uninen]

http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/South/04/22/mortuary.photos.ap/index.html


This photo showing American war dead arriving at Dover Air Force Base is one of the more than 350 photos found at thememoryhole.org.

The pics are supposed to be at ->

" http://www.thememoryhole.org/ "

But it seems that the freedom of speech works only to certain extend, and the site is actually taken down by FBI........ (doesnt work for me, and it has in the past.....)

Sadly, i suspect that the pics are removed (the site taken down...) as they would show lots more coffins than what is the number of reported KIA:s......

:|

[Grim]

I maybe wrong, but isen't the USA supposed to be the worlds beacon for Freedom of press en speach? How come the Pentagon and US officials deny their people to see the truth?
Isen't this the kind of regime suppresing the freedom of speach, one of the reasons Saddam and his Baath party was removed...

[ibstolidude]

It's a disrespect to the fallen to print these photos.

No, to keep them secret is.which is why you can pull up the causuality lists and numbers, because it is a secret, idiot. - you lie when the truth would do.
The hole thing is not about respect. It's one thing to see numbers and statistics of casualties, but real powerful impressions were created by pictures, by photos. Think back in history, Vietnam, 2WW/Auschwitz, even spanish civil war, I remember impressive photos, not statistics. And that is, what every government fears.
You may choose to make it about things other than respect, I however am telling the reasons the US military conducts themselves this way when deceased soldiers are in the process of being shipped home.- the families may take all the pictures they want and do what ever they want with them. Under the care of the US military, US military and gov employess do not have that right. It is without a doubt about respect.

[ibstolidude]

http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/South/04/22/mortuary.photos.ap/index.html


This photo showing American war dead arriving at Dover Air Force Base is one of the more than 350 photos found at thememoryhole.org.

The pics are supposed to be at ->

" http://www.thememoryhole.org/ "

But it seems that the freedom of speech works only to certain extend, and the site is actually taken down by FBI........ (doesnt work for me, and it has in the past.....)

Sadly, i suspect that the pics are removed (the site taken down...) as they would show lots more coffins than what is the number of reported KIA:s......

:|
You have 24hrs to post the facts that support this claim or make a retraction. This is not a threat this is a statement of fact.
Post the evidence that the US FBI removed this website.

It amazes me how willing people are to flat out LIE to make their point, screaming liar to their opposition the whole way. Did the FBI do it? If you know, that means you have evidence and lets see it.

[Uninen]

I said "seems", and like said it doesnt work for me, so either its removed, or its "pinged".

[ibstolidude]

I said "seems", and like said it doesnt work for me, so either its removed, or its "pinged".
That may be the case - post the the evidence to support:

and the site is actually taken down by FBI or remove it.

Pretty fair opportunity. But as Hood, himself, has stated in response to a similiar claim by another user:
It's nice to make blanket statements without giving any facts, but it's getting kind of tiresome. Be specific about your cover-up conspiracy theory or don't bother at all. - I could not agree more.

You made the claim - you back it up. Or be a man and admit the site is down and you don't know why. Fall we know some kid hacked it, the server dropped them, they failed to pay, all the publicity made them too big for their server (as happened here), they are repairing their webiste. I don't make claims the FBI did it or that the site owner actually decided he was an ass for exploiting photos of the dead with out permission from their next of kin and he took then down himself; and neither do you, unless you post the evidence.

[Uninen]

http://personal.inet.fi/koti/uninen/uploads/Sekalaisii/hole1.jpg

[ibstolidude]

http://personal.inet.fi/koti/uninen/uploads/Sekalaisii/hole1.jpg
I don't question the serve is down I question your statements that:
and the site is actually taken down by FBI

Again, show me evidence it is the FBI's doing.

- Even you screenshot offers likey alternatives - or own website has been down before, amazingly it wasn't the doings of the FBI.

You stated that the FBI did it.

and the site is actually taken down by FBI - that is the statment I take issue with - post the evidence to support it, if it is true. You used no statement to denote it is opinion, you didn't speculate - you made a statement of the definative.

[farmgirl]

Come on, Stoli....
I thought everyone automatically assumed the FBI is responsible anytime a website doesn't load. I couldn't get on Sesame Street.com this morning. Clearly the FBI found out that Elmo is a subversive, and that Grover is a spy for UBL. (I've known that for a long time)

[cut]

http://www.alternet.org/stuff/rowsofcoffins.jpg

the issue

[ibstolidude]

Come on, Stoli....
I thought everyone automatically assumed the FBI was responsible anytime a website doesn't load. I couldn't get on Sesame Street.com this morning. Clearly the FBI found out that Elmo is a subversive, and that Grover is a spy for UBL. (I've known that for a long time)
No it's that darned Bert!
http://www.cloud9.net/~drs/images/osama_w_bert.jpg

[Uninen]

Like you said anything is possible.... too much traffic, some hooligans hacking it or the FBI....

And that is also what tryed to do in my initial post, to offer a suggestion that it might have been taken down by authorities, of course i dont know that this is so, but you must admit that it is a real possibility.

Of course it isnt the only possibility, byt still its one real possibility when you take in to account that Pentagon fired two people for taking the pics and CNN reposted that "Pentagon angered by photos from military mortuary" for the "guy" hosting them at his site.....


DOVER, Delaware (AP) -- A Web site published dozens of photographs of American war dead arriving at the nation's largest military mortuary, prompting the Pentagon to order an information clampdown Thursday.

:|

Could you explain, what is actually a "information clampdown"? That is something that i dont understand....

It seems to me that that term is suggesting that they had the site shutdown..... correct me if im wrong.

http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/South/04/22/mortuary.photos.ap/index.html

[Uninen]

Also might i add that from what i gather, all the pics are of coffins that are covered in US flags, i personally dont see pictures like that as "hostile" but rather as respectful to the dead.

:|

[farmgirl]

Come on, Stoli....
I thought everyone automatically assumed the FBI was responsible anytime a website doesn't load. I couldn't get on Sesame Street.com this morning. Clearly the FBI found out that Elmo is a subversive, and that Grover is a spy for UBL. (I've known that for a long time)
No it's that darned Bert!
http://www.cloud9.net/~drs/images/osama_w_bert.jpg



I always KNEW Bert was evil!!!!! The eyebrows should have tipped me off!!! Thanks for letting me know. ;)

[ibstolidude]

Like you said anything is possible.... too much traffic, some hooligans hacking it or the FBI....

And that is also what tryed to do in my initial post, to offer a suggestion that it might have been taken down by authorities, of course i dont know that this is so, but you must admit that it is a real possibility.

Of course it isnt the only possibility, byt still its one real possibility when you take in to account that Pentagon fired two people for taking the pics and CNN reposted that "Pentagon angered by photos from military mortuary" for the "guy" hosting them at his site.....


DOVER, Delaware (AP) -- A Web site published dozens of photographs of American war dead arriving at the nation's largest military mortuary, prompting the Pentagon to order an information clampdown Thursday.

:|

Could you explain, what is actually a "information clampdown"? That is something that i dont understand....

It seems to me that that term is suggesting that they had the site shutdown..... correct me if im wrong.

http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/South/04/22/mortuary.photos.ap/index.html
You may have intended a suggestion but you made a definative statement. That is what I took issue with - atleast you had the fortitutude to admit that you don't know for certain.

The "information clampdown" you ask about is described in detail in the article. - They, the DOD, has ceased the release of the photographs.
Defense Department barred the further release of the photographs to media outlets.
Defense Department rules prohibit media coverage of human remains arriving at Dover, and Pentagon spokesman Lt. Col. Gary Keck said release of the mortuary photos appears to be in conflict with department policy.

The best line in the whole article is pretty simple to me:
"Quite frankly, we don't want the remains of our service members who have made the ultimate sacrifice to be the subject of any kind of attention that is unwarranted or undignified"

[Uninen]

So thats basicly: nomore pics of dead US troops or their coffins in US media, or is that just that not from "Pentagon" sources?

Also, if the "ban" is to be "whole US media" wide, then it is even more propable that the site was taken down, at least until the owner of the site has removed those 350+ images from that page and server.

[ibstolidude]

Also might i add that from what i gather, all the pics are of coffins that are covered in US flags, i personally dont see pictures like that as "hostile" but rather as respectful to the dead.

:| - although the pictures are themselves not disrespectful it is the manner in which they are used and manipulated.

Quite frankly, should you be killed tommorrow by an Iraqi in your hometown, an act that was nothing more than random crime, I doubt that you would appreciate US Hawks and supporters of the War in Iraq using your image to stir up furhter resolve for military action in Iraq.

Take the notional position of gun control - let us pretend you are oppossed to gun control. If you are killed in a crime that perhaps your ownership of a gun could prevent, yet you are adamant about banning handguns, would you want your images used to support that cause?

We have no idea how those men and women felt about any number of issues and opinions. It is not our (the livings) place to decide for them. If those that know them best (their families) make that decision that is their right and they may use the images as they see fit. To think that we (the living) need to see their images plastered on websites under the guise of truth, yet being used to promote political agendas then we are sick. To be frank, anyone who thinks that they need to count coffins (as if they can even tell in photographs the differences between the numbers) to ensure body counts are correct is a fool. The DOD regulation does not ban the family from pictures, it bans the military & DOD persons from allowing them to photosgraphed, from release photographs and from takeing photographs for the previously mentioned reason:
Quite frankly, we don't want the remains of our service members who have made the ultimate sacrifice to be the subject of any kind of attention that is unwarranted or undignified,"

[Ichhabe]

To get back on topic: The display of coffins.

If an American want to make a web site to honour American soldiers that has fallen, it is right.

If an American want to make a web site to get his political point proven, weather it is pro-or anti-war, it is wrong.


When I see those photos of the fallen soldiers, I get sad. But also in the same moment, it makes me a little glad. Cause when I see those flag draped coffins, I see respect. I see that they are given the respect and the greatfulness that they deserve.

Personally I don't need, or want to see an entire web site filled with flag draped coffins from any nation. Specially if that site try to "prove" something.

I haven't commented on the "Heros"-posting of HELEX, and I don't want to either. But what he is trying to "prove" or "tell" is beyond me. It is just sickening...

[ibstolidude]

So thats basicly: nomore pics of dead US troops or their coffins in US media, or is that just that not from "Pentagon" sources?

Also, if the "ban" is to be "whole US media" wide, then it is even more propable that the site was taken down, at least until the owner of the site has removed those 350+ images from that page and server.
The DOD CANNOT, did not, nor will ban images of dead through out the US


This is a fallacy and mistake about what the DOD policy is.

The DOD will not release their OWN photographs of the deceased in transport, they also ban THEIR OWN persons (DOD & Military) from taking pictures and releasing them. - They cannot and have not banned the media outlets from using pictures that the media outlets take. The DOD can however not allow us photgraphers to be present during the unloading of those transports on military facilities.
If that website obtained pictures that are the property of the DOD and obtained them illegally then it is theft - short of that their is little they could do.

From the article:
Defense Department rules prohibit media coverage of human remains arriving at Dover,

Lt. Col. Gary Keck said release of the mortuary photos appears to be in conflict with department policy

this is not a ban on media outlets using their own photographs taken through legal means.

If reporters wish to take photos on there own, at funerals w/the permission of the next of kin - under the release of the families, then I have no problem - but until the deceased have been returned to the next of kin, I do not feel it should be the role of the DOD to sponsor photographers nor allow it's own employees to exploit their priveleges.

The images themselves I have no problem with, nor do I have a problem with disrespect in the actual depiction of the events - but if one doubts that those photos could be used for personal/political gain without the consent of the families or the deceased simply look at HELEX's hero thread.

[MEGR]

The only people who should see these coffins are the dead's family and friends.

[farmgirl]

The only people who should see these coffins are the dead's family and friends.


Amen... It's as simple as that.

[front]

"It's as simple as that."

With all due respect... no. It's not as simple as that.

It is as simple as this:

"At Harvard on January 19, 2000, then-Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Gen. Hugh Shelton provided a valuable standard, both to determine whether the United States ought to send the nation's warriors into combat and to enlist "the support of the American people as well as the Congress" needed to sustain that involvement. In Shelton's judgment, such a grave decision :

"(M)ust be subjected to what I call the 'Dover test.' Is the American public prepared for the sight of our most precious resource coming home in flag-draped caskets into Dover Air Force Base in Delaware -- which is a point entry for our Armed Forces?

This is an issue, I think, that should be raised early on. It should be discussed, and it should be decided by our political leadership before any operation begins."

http://www.cnn.com/2003/ALLPOLITICS/11/03/column.shields.opinion.dover/

This current Pentagon does not want to have to start taking the nightly "Dover Test". It is as simple as that.

cheers

front

[farmgirl]

No one is saying that the number of casualties be hidden. I'm not saying that the loss of our men and women should not be discussed. I'm saying that the dead and their caskets should not be used for political purposes. We don't need to see pictures of caskets to know that lives are being lost. As far as I'm concerned, one death is too many.

It's a matter of respect. That is very simple.


Grief is a private thing. I know. I lost my husband, and I would not have wanted pictures of his casket on the front page of the newspaper.

[nerdman]

How the bodies are displayed should be up to the lost serviceperson’s family.

If they want pictures of their loved one’s coffin taken and posted on the internet then so be it.

If not, let them have their privacy.

[JiJoMacLE45]

Good posts Stoli.

[usa320]

SORRY. Had to kick this one back up.


WASHINGTON (*******) -- Several dozen photographs of coffins recently identified by news organizations as remains of U.S. soldiers who died in Iraq are really images from the space shuttle Columbia explosion last year, U.S. space officials said Friday.

The National Aeronautics and Space Administration said up to 73 images posted on a Web site, www.thememoryhole.org, that media organizations used were mistakenly identified as photos of casualties from Iraq.

"Many news organizations across the country are mistakenly identifying the flag-draped caskets of the space shuttle Columbia's crew as those of war casualties from Iraq," NASA said.

[HELEX]

So whats the Point? He asked for the Coffin Photos from Dover Air Force Base and that is what the Army sent him.

I dont think the Astronauts were flown to Dover. :cantbeli:

So either the Soldiers who sent the Pics made a stupid mistake or the did it deliberately(That would be a criminal violation against Freedom of Information act....).

[ibstolidude]

The pics are supposed to be at ->

" http://www.thememoryhole.org/ "

[color=darkblue]But it seems that the freedom of speech works only to certain extend, and the site is actually taken down by FBI........ (doesnt work for me, and it has in the past.....)
color]
Working just fine now - what was that about the FBI?

[ibstolidude]

So whats the Point? He asked for the Coffin Photos from Dover Air Force Base and that is what the Army sent him.

I dont think the Astronauts were flown to Dover. Yes, and you are a trusted source because you have shown yourself intimately familiar with US systems of support and logistics :cantbeli: Just look at your next statement to see the lack of knowledge.


So either the Soldiers who sent the Pics made a stupid mistake or the did it deliberately(That would be a criminal violation against Freedom of Information act....).

Why don't you just post your name and the words "I like to make huge assumptions about things I have no knowledge" it would save us all time. Explain again about Austronauts and Dover.

[usa320]

I dont think the Astronauts were flown to Dover

The remains of the 7 astronauts were sent to Dover Air Force base. The body of any US serviceman killed in the line of duty is processed at Dover Air Force base. It is the headquarters for Mortuary Affairs.

[Uninen]

Working just fine now - what was that about the FBI?

Still not for me, "thememoryhole" mainpage loads, but is missing all "images" and the actual "image page" still wont load at all. :|

[HELEX]

So whats the Point? He asked for the Coffin Photos from Dover Air Force Base and that is what the Army sent him.

I dont think the Astronauts were flown to Dover. Yes, and you are a trusted source because you have shown yourself intimately familiar with US systems of support and logistics :cantbeli: Just look at your next statement to see the lack of knowledge.


So either the Soldiers who sent the Pics made a stupid mistake or the did it deliberately(That would be a criminal violation against Freedom of Information act....).

Why don't you just post your name and the words "I like to make huge assumptions about things I have no knowledge" it would save us all time. Explain again about Austronauts and Dover.

Ok, maybe the Astronauts were flown to dover. But the Request was about Soldiers KIA abroad.