New Zealand claims Mossad agents caught

[pinkeye]

New Zealand claims Mossad agents caught


MARY GORDON
OTTAWA BUREAU
Toronto Star

OTTAWA—Foreign affairs officials are trying to confirm reports that alleged Israeli spies detained in New Zealand were using Canadian passports.

"It's being thoroughly checked and investigated by the Canadian authorities," department spokesperson Reynald Doiron.

The department learned Monday of allegations that at least one agent from Mossad, Israel's foreign intelligence agency, may have been travelling on a Canadian passport. The information was contained in court documents from Auckland, New Zealand, he said.

Checking whether the passport numbers matches someone's identity will take some time, Doiron said. He said the Canadian passport office is reviewing records and running checks.

According to media reports in New Zealand, the two suspected agents were arrested in Auckland trying to obtain a false New Zealand passport. One of the men had entered the country using a Canadian passport.

The arrests have sparked concerns in New Zealand that Israeli intelligence agents are posing as travellers from that country. That prompted the government to call in an Israeli diplomat and demand the return of any bogus New Zealand passports.

It's not the first time such allegations have come up. In 1997, Canada recalled its ambassador to protest the apparent forgery of Canadian passports by Israeli intelligence agents. Israel promised then it would never use Canadian passports in such a way again.

[Threelions]

New Zealand claims Mossad agents caught


MARY GORDON
OTTAWA BUREAU
Toronto Star

OTTAWA—Foreign affairs officials are trying to confirm reports that alleged Israeli spies detained in New Zealand were using Canadian passports.

"It's being thoroughly checked and investigated by the Canadian authorities," department spokesperson Reynald Doiron.

The department learned Monday of allegations that at least one agent from Mossad, Israel's foreign intelligence agency, may have been travelling on a Canadian passport. The information was contained in court documents from Auckland, New Zealand, he said.

Checking whether the passport numbers matches someone's identity will take some time, Doiron said. He said the Canadian passport office is reviewing records and running checks.

According to media reports in New Zealand, the two suspected agents were arrested in Auckland trying to obtain a false New Zealand passport. One of the men had entered the country using a Canadian passport.

The arrests have sparked concerns in New Zealand that Israeli intelligence agents are posing as travellers from that country. That prompted the government to call in an Israeli diplomat and demand the return of any bogus New Zealand passports.

It's not the first time such allegations have come up. In 1997, Canada recalled its ambassador to protest the apparent forgery of Canadian passports by Israeli intelligence agents. Israel promised then it would never use Canadian passports in such a way again.

Hmm.. well thats not very nice of the Mossad.

Cheers

[Abolith]

Heh, not like all the other Intel agencies around the world don't use this same method... :roll:

[sethen]

woot

[budanski]

Seems a few of our israeli forum members are out to pay GazB a visit. ;)

[Mark_Aspen]

Ouch. I'd like to hope they were contract stringers or free-lance and not the real deal. It's hard to juxtapose snatching Vannunu, or getting the drop on Hamas and this type of ****-up.

[ExtraT]

...alleged Israeli spies...

Have anybody seen ANY mention of how they arrived to the conclusion that these people work for Mossad? All I've seen so far were some baseless statements from the media.

[born_to_kill]

What were they doing in new zealand and how were they caught? mossad is one of the finest intelligence services in the world and i doubt they just got caught without a fight or something

[Backis]

..i doubt they just got caught without a fight or something...

Yeah, that would have been the solution... to shoot a few NZ LEO's and make a run for the border... :roll:

They did the right thing... this will blow around in the press, cause a diplomatic ruccus, be forgotten within weeks and the guys released to Israel without public release of their mugshots when they *promise* not to do this again (get caught that is...).

[born_to_kill]

No im saying were they approached by police or something and they just stopped? thats not israel like man they would like use pen lasers or something lol :lol:

[Mr Gently Benevolent]

Have anybody seen ANY mention of how they arrived to the conclusion that these people work for Mossad?
This is the part that counter intelligence agencies never divulge. ;)

[He219]

Seems a few of our israeli forum members are out to pay GazB a visit. ;)

:lol:

[Ichhabe]

What were they doing in new zealand and how were they caught? mossad is one of the finest intelligence services in the world and i doubt they just got caught without a fight or something


Well, Mossad has been caught before. ;)

[Haiw]

What were they doing in new zealand and how were they caught? mossad is one of the finest intelligence services in the world and i doubt they just got caught without a fight or something


Well, Mossad has been caught before. ;)
'Doubt they just got caught without a fight or something'
rofl
What would you expect? That they'd start shooting NZ cops or something? That they'd try to start a war or at least one of the biggest political incidents in history? :lol:

[Ichhabe]

What were they doing in new zealand and how were they caught? mossad is one of the finest intelligence services in the world and i doubt they just got caught without a fight or something


Well, Mossad has been caught before. ;)
'Doubt they just got caught without a fight or something'
rofl


Trust me, they have been arrested for murder.

[Haiw]

Go on and brag about how you Norwegians caught some of them... ;)

[Ichhabe]

Go on and brag about how you Norwegians caught some of them... ;)

8 :D

[Backis]

Go on and brag about how you Norwegians caught some of them...

That thing was a total screw-up...

They whacked a poor waiter (complete misidentification of their target), then got caught...

REAL perfessionalism! :cantbeli: :bash:

[gilgoul]

I have an other pasport, deserve it, and dont work for mossad

[Ngati Tumatauenga]

The story is over a week old now but it go's basically like this.
Four Israeli men attempted to get a New Zealand passport at short notice. The official at the Ministry of Internal Affairs who handled the call thought there was something wrong because the caller had an foreign accent but his personal details stated he had been born and raised in this country. He contacted the Police who, upon investigation, found that the personal details belonged to a middle-aged New Zealand man suffering from cerebal-palsy.
The Police then set up a sting operation whereby they complied with the callers request to send the passport by taxi to a certain address. They placed surveillance on the Taxi and the address and sent a dummy package. At the address they noticed a man acting suspiciously. They picked him up for questioning.
At the address were further instructions for the taxi driver to take the package to another address. This he did but with a Police officer along for the ride. At the second address was another man who was also acting suspiciously. As the police approached him he threw a cell phone into some bushes and tried to run away. He was also apprehended by the Police.

End result two Israeli nationals arrested, another on the run inside the country and one more fled overseas.

The government isn't commenting publicly until court proceedings are over. But the Israeli government attempted to force the New Zealand government to drop all charges and release the men. To which request the israelis were told ever so politely no. Which is a bit of a 'combat indicater' so to speak.

Foreign Intelligence agencys operating on our shores are nothing new. Neither is their getting caught in the act, ie french DGSE/special forces and the rainbow warrior.
Even the 'best' seem to end up suffering from a sort of corporate arrogance sooner or later which leads to them underestimating their opponents and suffering the consequences.

born to kill wrote,

mossad is one of the finest intelligence services in the world and i doubt they just got caught without a fight or something

rofl I guess life is a bit harder if you don't have Merkavas, Apaches and F-16s to back you up. ;)

PS. check out javehns location.

[mocking_loudly_died]

Maybe Israel is forming a rugby union team and wanted to aquire some "tactics" for free. ;)

[born_to_kill]

I have a dutch passport an israeli passport and american citizen ship how bout dem apples?

[throat warbler mangrove]

Norman's King of New Zealand, Land of lambs, big fat lambs, and everywhere that Norman goes the flock is sure to show.

[sethen]

I have an other pasport, deserve it, and dont work for mossad

How do I know you aren't? Judendom's a small place!!!!!!!!!

[sethen]

Go on and brag about how you Norwegians caught some of them... ;)

Is that bunch of bunglers still in prison?

[Sayeret]

born_to_kill


mossad is one of the finest intelligence services in the world and i doubt they just got caught without a fight or something

Mossad is one of the best intelligence agencies but every so often people will get caught from any intelligence agency. Also the spies don't carry guns and they probably wanted to trick the police into believing that they are not spies rather than get into a shoot out with them.

[Sayeret]

Ngati Tumatuenga wrote:


I guess life is a bit harder if you don't have Merkavas, Apaches and F-16s to back you up.

Ngati I don't know what country you are from but whats your point? Are you trying to say that the Mossad is a bad intelligence agency? Even the Palestinians and Arabs who hate it don't think the Mossad is stupid. Mossad is one of the finest intelligence agencies in the world. They have assassinated tons of terrorists and stoling a lot of information without getting caught.

[born_to_kill]

Mossad has done alot of **** that we dont even know about..

but wouldnt they have gadgets or anything like james bond :P

[Ngati Tumatauenga]

Sayaret wrote,

Ngati I don't know what country you are from

Run my name through Google.


but whats your point?

You wrote,

Mossad is one of the best intelligence agencies but every so often people will get caught from any intelligence agency....

I wrote,

Even the 'best' seem to end up suffering from a sort of corporate arrogance sooner or later which leads to them underestimating their opponents and suffering the consequences.

I was being smart, hence the winking smiley.

If you can't take a joke then send them over to NZ to steal a few passports. The cops know just what to do. rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl

Anyway it probably wasn't Mossad as such just, some of their lackeys the Sayanim .

Shalom ;)

[IDFM203]

Anyway it probably wasn't Mossad as such just, some of their lackeys the Sayanim .

hmm I see we have a another reader of by way of deception here ;) (correct?)

Anyways as was reported a week ago it could have been organized crime as well.

(as Israel like other nations has some of that)


The bottome line is that now we have no proof to anything or at least none has been publicly stated, though if it is Mossad, then I will say that if people don’t believe that most nations, even friendly ones, spy on each other or that other nations aren’t using the passports of other nations even yours, is IMO being very naive.

I think all that have a major problems with this should get off their high horse for I can almost bet that you or his or everyone’s, nations spy agencies does this as well.

(Just note if it is Mossad then I am not excusing what they did and indeed its an embarrassment and there will probably be some diplomatic punishment or something to that effect)

Shalom ;) :D

[EvanL]

Ohh no. It would be impossible for a mossad agent to ever get caught. I mean they are super human arent they? Super humans cant ever get caught. :cantbeli:

[IDFM203]

Hey Evan,

Was your post directed towards me...(I am not sure but you don’t address it to anyone and it followed my post)

Well if it is at me, then your post here is absurd for of course it could be them (and I said if it is, then it is an embarrassment and diplomatically we will probably pay some price)

but all I am saying is that we have no proof.

Now as to the Mossad being super human, hey we don’t say that, now I might belive that they are the best intelligence agency in the world but super human I do not say and I recognize as all agencies make mistakes, so too do the Mossad, but man after hearing the Arabs and a lot of Europeans and a lot of anti Jews out there, well perhaps they are super human ;) (you know its always the Mossad behind everything……..JFK assissination, this event that event etc.. ;) ….hell even mustamato once told me seriously that he suspected the Mossad was behind some assassination of some Swedish minister a few years back :roll: )

Shalom :D

[UoUo]

When mossad agent get cought in nez zeland...the nz people shouldn't be soo happy...it's not like the mossas was there to heart the NZ country. :roll: :roll:

And even the best get cought...the KGB...and the CIA also.

[big80a2]

take a look from another angle:

If it where mossad agents maybe there are a lot more...
I meen if you have a house full of mice and you catch 4...
it could be you got them all, it could be you get 4 out of 30 or you got 4 out of 200...
So catching a couple, most of the time meen there are a lot more
(just for the record: I'm not comparing the Mossad with mice :D but I guess you'll understood that)

chears

[Javehn]

Well , that's an old news indeed (i wrote my location about 1 week ago ;) ) . And most probably , at list to my belliefe , this is a part of organised crime attempts , and not Mossad .

Like , WTF has Mossad to do there (sorry , Flagg ) ? What interest we have in NZ ? To catch renegade cenguroos ? To persway local aborigens to make revolution against Pro Palestinian NZ government ? :roll: More , if the ocal government don't object to the acts of the agencies (andi don't see any reason why they do on that case . Again , i am not so shure what the hell Mossad forgot in NZ ) , ussually agencies announce foreign authorities they are operating in they land ,just to avoid those kind of cases , style Norwegian case (refference from the book "imperfect spies" ) .

That's probably just a story that was inflated like a baloon by media . We really don't need the Kenguroos .

[EvanL]

Hey Evan,

Was your post directed towards me...(I am not sure but you don’t address it to anyone and it followed my post)

Well if it is at me, then your post here is absurd for of course it could be them (and I said if it is, then it is an embarrassment and diplomatically we will probably pay some price)

but all I am saying is that we have no proof.

Now as to the Mossad being super human, hey we don’t say that, now I might belive that they are the best intelligence agency in the world but super human I do not say and I recognize as all agencies make mistakes, so too do the Mossad, but man after hearing the Arabs and a lot of Europeans and a lot of anti Jews out there, well perhaps they are super human ;) (you know its always the Mossad behind everything……..JFK assissination, this event that event etc.. ;) ….hell even mustamato once told me seriously that he suspected the Mossad was behind some assassination of some Swedish minister a few years back :roll: )

Shalom :D
hahaha no man dont worry yourself it wasnt directed at you. I should have made that more clear. I was merely just mocking Born to kills attitude about how mossad is too good to get caught. Any intelligence agency even the best make mistakes.
Funny story actually. This summer i was in the line up at the montreal airport going through customs after coming in from a flight from NYC, and a guy ahead of me, a Big middle Eastern looking guy was on his cell phone. And i was listening to him because he was switching from talking in hebrew (which i recognized cus i have many israeli friends) into spanish, french and some other languages. WHich i found very bizarre. Mossad was the first thing that popped into my head. But then again Montreal has a very big Jewish/Israeli population.

[EvanL]

Well , that's an old news indeed (i wrote my location about 1 week ago ;) ) . And most probably , at list to my belliefe , this is a part of organised crime attempts , and not Mossad .

Like , WTF has Mossad to do there (sorry , Flagg ) ? What interest we have in NZ ? To catch renegade cenguroos ? To persway local aborigens to make revolution against Pro Palestinian NZ government ? :roll: More , if the ocal government don't object to the acts of the agencies (andi don't see any reason why they do on that case . Again , i am not so shure what the hell Mossad forgot in NZ ) , ussually agencies announce foreign authorities they are operating in they land ,just to avoid those kind of cases , style Norwegian case (refference from the book "imperfect spies" ) .

That's probably just a story that was inflated like a baloon by media . We really don't need the Kenguroos .First off there are many things wrong with your post. I will only bother pointing out the most obvious to you. First off, its spelt aboriginee, and they dont have aboriginees in NZ. Only in Australia. In NZ they have Mauris.
Secondly, its spelt kangaroo. And they dont have kangaroos in NZ, only in Australia. New Zealand has the Kiwi bird ;)
Thirdly, if i remember correctly a year or two back, some arabs were arrested in NZ trying to get pilot licenses. That to me and to many others i would hope, would suggest that there is some terrorist activity going on in NZ, just as there is in most modern countries these days.
Cheers.

[Sayeret]

Ngati Tumatuenga wrote:


Even the 'best' seem to end up suffering from a sort of corporate arrogance sooner or later which leads to them underestimating their opponents and suffering the consequences.

Also he wrote:


I was being smart, hence the winking smiley.

I missed that part. All I saw was the thing about the F-16s and Merkava tanks and didn't realize you were just kidding.

[big80a2]

Well , that's an old news indeed (i wrote my location about 1 week ago ;) ) . And most probably , at list to my belliefe , this is a part of organised crime attempts , and not Mossad .



I also think it would actually be organised crime

[Javehn]

Well, i am sorry that i can't spell :roll: . And sorry for Mauris :roll: :roll: :roll: . And sorry for Kenguru :roll: :roll: I must be drunk :roll: :roll: :roll:

But i still stand in my opinion , that it was organised crime . Like i said , on this case the agents would not act without the knowledge of NZ (same reference ) .

There are many Israeli bussiness man in Montreal . I was planning to drive myself to Canada after my studies , just because you have more work opportunities . I have allready enough points to go there (i was explained academics reseave more points ) , so perhaps soon i would see in person your ugly face , EL :roll: .

[IDFM203]

I was planning to drive myself to Canada after my studies , .Just curious mate, which Highway will you take over the Atlantic to Montreal? p-) :lol:

[UkrainianAmerican]

I was planning to drive myself to Canada after my studies , .Just curious mate, which Highway will you take over the Atlantic to Montreal? p-) :lol:
Yeha i was wondering about that too.
But I heard some tanks can go underwater rofl

[EvanL]

I was planning to drive myself to Canada after my studies , .Just curious mate, which Highway will you take over the Atlantic to Montreal? p-) :lol:
Like moses he shall part the sea. :D

[UkrainianAmerican]

I was planning to drive myself to Canada after my studies , .Just curious mate, which Highway will you take over the Atlantic to Montreal? p-) :lol:
Like moses he shall part the sea. :D
:lol:
O man Javehn is getting abused. :)

[IDFM203]

I was planning to drive myself to Canada after my studies , .Just curious mate, which Highway will you take over the Atlantic to Montreal? p-) :lol:
Like moses he shall part the sea. :Dhehe :lol: good one there mate :D

oh and I forgot, ok I got you as to who you wrote that post to before.

Shalom :D

[Javehn]

eat my **** all of youit is tasty

[EvanL]

eat my **** all of you
Mishugena

[Javehn]

mese with that best
die like the rest

[UkrainianAmerican]

eat my **** all of you
Mishugena
Whats dat?

[Javehn]

eat my **** all of you
Mishugena

I am not stupid :roll: :roll:

[Ngati Tumatauenga]

IDFM203 wrote,

Anyway it probably wasn't Mossad as such just, some of their lackeys the Sayanim .


hmm I see we have a another reader of by way of deception here (correct?)


Don't know what you mean by that.

Yes its true they have not been confirmed as Mossad. That will not happen until the court case if indeed they are.

Javehn wrote,

Like , WTF has Mossad to do there (sorry , Flagg ) ? What interest we have in NZ ? To catch renegade cenguroos ? To persway local aborigens to make revolution against Pro Palestinian NZ government ? More , if the ocal government don't object to the acts of the agencies (andi don't see any reason why they do on that case . Again , i am not so shure what the hell Mossad forgot in NZ ) , ussually agencies announce foreign authorities they are operating in they land ,just to avoid those kind of cases , style Norwegian case (refference from the book "imperfect spies" ) .

That's probably just a story that was inflated like a baloon by media . We really don't need the Kenguroos .

As pointed out by Evan, we don't have Aborigine's or Kangaroos. Thats the larger land mass about two thousand kilometres to the west.

See, maybe Mossad does need to come here so you can get your facts right ;)

We're not 'pro-palestinian'. We just like to hear BOTH sides of the story. And if you're offended by that then too bad. Your country is worth 12.5 million in exports to us, we're worth 60 million to you. We're not going to miss your 'friendship' greatly.

And we've had Achmed Zaui locked up for nearly 18 months, so don't accuse us of being soft on terrorism.


Like i said , on this case the agents would not act without the knowledge of NZ

So they'd clear it with us first before they tried to defraud us of passports. :cantbeli:

Maybe you should stick to your Merkava.

PS. Evan its spelt Maori.

[IDFM203]

IDFM203 wrote,

Anyway it probably wasn't Mossad as such just, some of their lackeys the Sayanim .


hmm I see we have a another reader of by way of deception here (correct?)


Don't know what you mean by that. ok I just thought that perhaps you read one of the most well read books on the Mossad (the book is called “by way of deception”) where it details what a “sayan” is.

May I ask where did you read about the Mossad to know that word?


We're not 'pro-palestinian'. We just like to hear BOTH sides of the story. And if you're offended by that then too bad. I cant speak for what Javehn might or might not be offended about, but me personally all I am concerned about is some of the people that ride on high horses and jump all over Israel for something that most nations are actively engaged in as well.


Your country is worth 12.5 million in exports to us, we're worth 60 million to you. We're not going to miss your 'friendship' greatly. both IMO are negligible for either side to really miss anyone in a financial sense.

No I would hope that we share commom values and views as both nations are western style democracies.

Perhaps that’s just me.

Anyways like I said to you before, if indeed it was Mossad, we will probably pay for it diplomatically or something like that.

All I am saying is that it can be organized crime as was reported as well and that we shouldn’t jump to any conclusions till the proof is publicly shown.

Lastly, if indeed it was the Mossad, well I don’t think they were spying on your nation, now indeed that doesnt negate the act of spying but it wasn’t with any hostile intention to your nation.

(btw your nation is a very popular tourist destination for a lot of Israelis, so politics aside, we have a favorable view on your nation………….and choose to pour millions into your economy as well ;) )

Shalom :D

[born_to_kill]

eat my **** all of you
Mishugena
Whats dat?

Mishugena is the gay way of saying Mishuga which means crazy

[UkrainianAmerican]

eat my **** all of you
Mishugena
Whats dat?

Mishugena is the gay way of saying Mishuga which means crazy
Toda Raba.

[Javehn]

I am aprreciate your concern Ngati , but i am not an idiot , thank you .I don't need to stick to my Merkavas .

[Ngati Tumatauenga]

Javehn wrote,

I am aprreciate your concern Ngati , but i am not an idiot , thank you .I don't need to stick to my Merkavas .

I never said you were an idiot. But perhaps you are just a little opinionated in your view of New Zealand in general. Which is ironic considering you are an Israeli.

IDFM203 wrote,

May I ask where did you read about the Mossad to know that word?

Er,......an 'acquaintance' explained it to me..............




No I would hope that we share commom values and views as both nations are western style democracies.

Perhaps that’s just me.

No its not just you, I agree with you. New Zealand as a nation and a people are far from perfect but we tend to get along with most because we attempt to see both side of any story.


Lastly, if indeed it was the Mossad, well I don’t think they were spying on your nation, now indeed that doesnt negate the act of spying but it wasn’t with any hostile intention to your nation.


It wouldn't surprise me if Mossad had an interest in NZ however marginal because AQ amongst others have apparently been 'checking' us out for various reasons. And where the prey is so will be the hunter, so to speak.

Still IF it was Mossad it would have been nice if they'd used a bit of 'professional' courtesy and asked first. As naive as that might sound.

Anyway its ANZAC day here and i'm 'half cut' so i believe I should say something like Mazeltov to my Israeli comrades.

[ANGRY KIWI]

our cops dont even have guns

[mocking_loudly_died]

our cops dont even have guns

Never give a nation of sheep shaggers fire arms....they will use them to kidnap more farm animals for their deviant activities.

[Ngati Tumatauenga]

angry kiwi wrote,

our cops dont even have guns

Really.........and how did you come to that conclusion?.

[Flagg]

our cops dont even have guns

I just spent the weekend getting loaded with some mates(several are cops). One of whom is a NZ Police Senior Sgt.

When he works South Auckland, he carrying a Glock 9mm sidearm. And he has a trunkload of goodies for his patrolling constables to "bomb up" if it becomes necessary.

So NZ Police do carry firearms.......but typically only when necessary.

[roujio87]

It's not new.In 1987 Viktor Ostrovsky,a Mossad officer from 1984-1986, had written a book about Mossad : The Other Side of Deception.He tells how the mossad made or modify canadian passports. :roll:

[EvanL]

eat my **** all of you
Mishugena
Whats dat?

Mishugena is the gay way of saying Mishuga which means crazy
I dont think that anybody who posts pics of themself in pink sunglasses on a forum should be calling anything gay. p-)

[Mark_Aspen]

We can let this one die a slow death. Flagg, why is the avatar familiar to me? I know I recognize him, but I don't know why.

[Backis]

We can let this one die a slow death. Flagg, why is the avatar familiar to me? I know I recognize him, but I don't know why.

Its some hard-on officer that dropped in now and again in M.A.S.H (the series example of the Army Intel oxymoron?).

I believe he was named...

Flagg...


Gasp! ;)

[IDFM203]

No its not just you, I agree with you. New Zealand as a nation and a people are far from perfect but we tend to get along with most because we attempt to see both side of any story.
Indeed as we all attempt to see both sides as well and also it is very important to know the real truth to any story as well.

And yes in these principles we agree with!!

Lastly, if indeed it was the Mossad, well I don’t think they were spying on your nation, now indeed that doesnt negate the act of spying but it wasn’t with any hostile intention to your nation.

It wouldn't surprise me if Mossad had an interest in NZ however marginal because AQ amongst others have apparently been 'checking' us out for various reasons. And where the prey is so will be the hunter, so to speak. interest in NZ and interest in AQ or other terrorist organizations that might operate in your nation IMO are different things and if indeed its the latter, IMO it is not a interest in your nation or in your nations intrests at all.


Still IF it was Mossad it would have been nice if they'd used a bit of 'professional' courtesy and asked first. As naive as that might sound. indeed IF it was the Mossad and IF they didn’t ask for professional curtsey, then its something that should be questioned.

Secondly I thought it was for passports, so if they should notify you then they might as well simply ask you for your passports ;)

Thirdly the more I read on passports the more I am puzzled that it’s the Mossad if it is.

As of now there is no proof that it is and organized crime can be a legitimate and plausible suspect as well.

Lastly professional curtesy is great but again I venture to say that a lot of spy agencies all over the world do not do professional courtesy at all times and well those people riding on their high horses should get off etc……………….




Anyway its ANZAC day here and i'm 'half cut' so i believe I should say something like Mazeltov to my Israeli comrades. Well for Remembrence day perhaps Mazel Tov isnt the best word though I apprecate your effort and intentions with it!!

As for ANZAC I must confess my ignorance here but from what I gather it is not a great day in your end.

If you don’t mind, I would appreciate a bit of an explanation from you on what kind of day it is supposed to be in your nation.

Shalom to you :D



It's not new.In 1987 Viktor Ostrovsky,a Mossad officer from 1984-1986, had written a book about Mossad : The Other Side of Deception.He tells how the mossad made or modify canadian passports. :roll: :roll: yeah because before his book no spy agency did this and now after we learn that the Mossad does this but since you didn’t mention any other books on any other spy agencies, I guess no one else does this as if this is not a standard operating procedures amongst other spy agencies :roll:

Oh and IMO its always telling of a poster when out of all the topics and subjects on this forum, a poster not from Israel chooses a Israel related topic as his first post.

I guess I should look forward to your postings ;) :roll:

Shalom :D

[Ngati Tumatauenga]

IDFM203 wrote,

Lastly professional curtesy is great but again I venture to say that a lot of spy agencies all over the world do not do professional courtesy at all times and well those people riding on their high horses should get off etc……………….

I know I was just being facetious. ;)


As for ANZAC I must confess my ignorance here but from what I gather it is not a great day in your end.

On the contrary it is a great day. A solemn day to be sure, but also a day to appreciate the sacrifices made by our men and women throughout our nations military histories.

Anzac Day in New Zealand is held on 25 April each year to commemorate New Zealanders killed in war and to honour returned servicemen and women. The day has similar importance in Australia, New Zealand's partner in the Australian and New Zealand Army Corps at Gallipoli. The ceremony itself has been continually adapted to the times, but has also steadily acquired extra layers of symbolism and meaning.

A typical commemoration begins with a march by returned service personnel before dawn to the local war memorial. Military personnel and returned service-men and -women form up about the memorial, joined by other members of the community, with pride of place going to the war veterans. A short service follows with a prayer, hymns (including Kipling's 'Recessional' or 'Lest We Forget'), and a dedication which concludes with the last verse of Laurence Binyon's 'For the Fallen':

They shall grow not old, as we that are left grow old:
Age shall not weary them, nor the years condemn.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning
We will remember them.

The Last Post is then played, followed by a minute's silence and Reveille. A brief address follows, after which the hymn 'Recessional' is sung. The service concludes with a closing prayer and the singing of the National Anthem.

Another ceremony takes place later that morning, with returned service personnel wearing their medals, and marching behind banners and standards. The veterans are joined by other community groups, including members of the armed forces, the Red Cross, cadets, and veterans of other countries' forces.

The march proceeds to the local war memorial, where another service takes place, including the laying of wreaths by various organisations and members of the public.

This service is a less intimate and emotional ceremony than the dawn service, but serves as a more public commemoration. The speech, usually by an important dignitary, serviceman, or returned serviceman or woman, tends to be of a conservative nature, with much stress on nationhood and remembrance. After these services, many of the veterans retire to the local RSA club or hotel, where they enjoy coffee and rum (in the case of the dawn service) and 'unwind'(by drinking copious amounts of alcohol) after an emotionally and, for elderly veterans, physically exhausting event. At the end of the day, the ceremony of the 'Retreat' is performed.

Anzac Day continues to enjoy unusual reverence in a country where emotional public rituals are otherwise absent. It has come to celebrate values that many New Zealanders consider either distinctive or admirable about their nation — mateship, unity, courage, self-sacrifice, loyalty — in addition to its traditional commemorative function.

I hope that helps IDFM203.

If you really want to experience ANZAC day then you should go to the dawn service at ANZAC cove on Gallipoli itself next year. Its veiwed as something of a pilgrimage by kiwis and Aussies.

[Ngati Tumatauenga]

edit

[EvanL]

IDFM203 wrote,

Lastly professional curtesy is great but again I venture to say that a lot of spy agencies all over the world do not do professional courtesy at all times and well those people riding on their high horses should get off etc……………….

I know I was just being facetious. ;)


As for ANZAC I must confess my ignorance here but from what I gather it is not a great day in your end.

On the contrary it is a great day. A solemn day to be sure, but also a day to appreciate the sacrifices made by our men and women throughout our nations military histories.

Anzac Day in New Zealand is held on 25 April each year to commemorate New Zealanders killed in war and to honour returned servicemen and women. The day has similar importance in Australia, New Zealand's partner in the Australian and New Zealand Army Corps at Gallipoli. The ceremony itself has been continually adapted to the times, but has also steadily acquired extra layers of symbolism and meaning.

A typical commemoration begins with a march by returned service personnel before dawn to the local war memorial. Military personnel and returned service-men and -women form up about the memorial, joined by other members of the community, with pride of place going to the war veterans. A short service follows with a prayer, hymns (including Kipling's 'Recessional' or 'Lest We Forget'), and a dedication which concludes with the last verse of Laurence Binyon's 'For the Fallen':

They shall grow not old, as we that are left grow old:
Age shall not weary them, nor the years condemn.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning
We will remember them.

The Last Post is then played, followed by a minute's silence and Reveille. A brief address follows, after which the hymn 'Recessional' is sung. The service concludes with a closing prayer and the singing of the National Anthem.

Another ceremony takes place later that morning, with returned service personnel wearing their medals, and marching behind banners and standards. The veterans are joined by other community groups, including members of the armed forces, the Red Cross, cadets, and veterans of other countries' forces.

The march proceeds to the local war memorial, where another service takes place, including the laying of wreaths by various organisations and members of the public.

This service is a less intimate and emotional ceremony than the dawn service, but serves as a more public commemoration. The speech, usually by an important dignitary, serviceman, or returned serviceman or woman, tends to be of a conservative nature, with much stress on nationhood and remembrance. After these services, many of the veterans retire to the local RSA club or hotel, where they enjoy coffee and rum (in the case of the dawn service) and 'unwind'(by drinking copious amounts of alcohol) after an emotionally and, for elderly veterans, physically exhausting event. At the end of the day, the ceremony of the 'Retreat' is performed.

Anzac Day continues to enjoy unusual reverence in a country where emotional public rituals are otherwise absent. It has come to celebrate values that many New Zealanders consider either distinctive or admirable about their nation — mateship, unity, courage, self-sacrifice, loyalty — in addition to its traditional commemorative function.

I hope that helps IDFM203.

If you really want to experience ANZAC day then you should go to the dawn service at ANZAC cove on Gallipoli itself next year. Its veiwed as something of a pilgrimage by kiwis and Aussies.
Arent The Newfies involved with the anzac celebrations as well?

[Ngati Tumatauenga]

EvanLloyd wrote,


Arent The Newfies involved with the anzac celebrations as well?

The who?.

And ANZAC is spelt in capitals.

[Falco]

EvanLloyd wrote,


Arent The Newfies involved with the anzac celebrations as well?

The who?.

And ANZAC is spelt in capitals.

Newfies are what we canadians call people from Newfoundland, a province of Canada. I don't think they celebrate ANZAC day.

[MapleLeafInfantry]

EvanLloyd wrote,


Arent The Newfies involved with the anzac celebrations as well?

The who?.

And ANZAC is spelt in capitals.

Newfies are what we canadians call people from Newfoundland, a province of Canada. I don't think they celebrate ANZAC day.

fine soldiers those newfies, much of the buisness end of the cf is comprised of their people

[Fitzcarraldo]

Well i cant speak for canadians as a whole about celebrating ANZAC day, but I think there may have been a handfull of canadian soldiers involved in the gallipoli dawn service.

[Ngati Tumatauenga]

Falco wrote,

Newfies are what we canadians call people from Newfoundland, a province of Canada. I don't think they celebrate ANZAC day.

Oh, okay. No I don't know if there were any Canadian units involved in the Gallipoli campaign. I've never heard of any but I'm no expert. Shouldn't be too hard to find out though.

[EvanL]

I think we were. I mean why wouldnt they. the brits used all 3 of us for cannon fodder during ww1.

[Ngati Tumatauenga]

As far as I can acertain Evan it was Kiwis, Aussies, Brits and the French who were involved in the campaign. I think the Canucks were already being bled dry in france by Haig and his cronies at the time.

I don't think they would have missed much though, the same incompetence displayed by British commanders in Gallipoli was on show on the western front too.

[ANGRY KIWI]

angry kiwi wrote,

our cops dont even have guns

Really.........and how did you come to that conclusion?.

may be i should have said "they dont carry guns on their person"

p.s how about we share the forshore

[Flagg]

may be i should have said "they dont carry guns on their person"

Check my previous post....some do


p.s how about we share the forshore

You and Ngati can divy up the rest of it any way you like.

I've got my little patch of beach in the backyard that's "mine"....you guys can come and visit it any time you want!

[Ngati Tumatauenga]

angry kiwi wrote,

may be i should have said "they dont carry guns on their person"



Maybe you shouldn't make definitive comments about that which you have no personal experience with.




p.s how about we share the forshore

Newsflash sparky, we already do.

You just keep judging books by their cover angry turkey. See where it gets you.

ps. loved your snappy little comments about our military in the LAV thread a few weeks ago. Showed how in touch with reality you are.


I've got my little patch of beach in the backyard that's "mine"....you guys can come and visit it any time you want!

Mate, just give me a six figure grid reference and I'll be there.

I'm not bringing any of that speights ****e though..........

[Flagg]

Mate, just give me a six figure grid reference and I'll be there.

I'm not bringing any of that speights ****e though..........

Anytime you're down south for a visit to Burnham you're always more than welcome Ngati.

Who am I to argue with our God of War?

Speights....no wonder folks from Dunedin have no sense of humour.....drinking that swill I wouldn't smile much either.

[IDFM203]

IDFM203 wrote,

Lastly professional curtesy is great but again I venture to say that a lot of spy agencies all over the world do not do professional courtesy at all times and well those people riding on their high horses should get off etc……………….

I know I was just being facetious. ;) perhaps as you say now ;) …anyways you are a serious poster and as such I am forced to give the benefit of the doubt that you are serious in all your points and as such I address your points seriously.

Though indeed for future reference with you, I will be on the lookout for more facetious comments from you ;)

As for ANZAC I must confess my ignorance here but from what I gather it is not a great day in your end.

On the contrary it is a great day. A solemn day to be sure, but also a day to appreciate the sacrifices made by our men and women throughout our nations military histories. Great way of characterizing it and I would say the same for our remembrance day as well.


Anzac Day in New Zealand is held on 25 April each year to commemorate New Zealanders killed in war and to honour returned servicemen and women. The day has similar importance in Australia, New Zealand's partner in the Australian and New Zealand Army Corps at Gallipoli. The ceremony itself has been continually adapted to the times, but has also steadily acquired extra layers of symbolism and meaning.

A typical commemoration begins with a march by returned service personnel before dawn to the local war memorial. Military personnel and returned service-men and -women form up about the memorial, joined by other members of the community, with pride of place going to the war veterans. A short service follows with a prayer, hymns (including Kipling's 'Recessional' or 'Lest We Forget'), and a dedication which concludes with the last verse of Laurence Binyon's 'For the Fallen':

They shall grow not old, as we that are left grow old:
Age shall not weary them, nor the years condemn.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning
We will remember them.

The Last Post is then played, followed by a minute's silence and Reveille. A brief address follows, after which the hymn 'Recessional' is sung. The service concludes with a closing prayer and the singing of the National Anthem.

Another ceremony takes place later that morning, with returned service personnel wearing their medals, and marching behind banners and standards. The veterans are joined by other community groups, including members of the armed forces, the Red Cross, cadets, and veterans of other countries' forces.

The march proceeds to the local war memorial, where another service takes place, including the laying of wreaths by various organisations and members of the public.

This service is a less intimate and emotional ceremony than the dawn service, but serves as a more public commemoration. The speech, usually by an important dignitary, serviceman, or returned serviceman or woman, tends to be of a conservative nature, with much stress on nationhood and remembrance. After these services, many of the veterans retire to the local RSA club or hotel, where they enjoy coffee and rum (in the case of the dawn service) and 'unwind'(by drinking copious amounts of alcohol) after an emotionally and, for elderly veterans, physically exhausting event. At the end of the day, the ceremony of the 'Retreat' is performed.

Anzac Day continues to enjoy unusual reverence in a country where emotional public rituals are otherwise absent. It has come to celebrate values that many New Zealanders consider either distinctive or admirable about their nation — mateship, unity, courage, self-sacrifice, loyalty — in addition to its traditional commemorative function.

I hope that helps IDFM203.

If you really want to experience ANZAC day then you should go to the dawn service at ANZAC cove on Gallipoli itself next year. Its veiwed as something of a pilgrimage by kiwis and Aussies. Now that is what I call a real answer to a question!!

Thanks a lot for explaining me in detail as to what goes on, it is much appreciated.

I come here to learn as well and well I indeed learnt something about one of the most important days in your nations calendar.

Shalom :D