While Sweden Slept

[Resurrection]

While Sweden Slept

By BRUCE BAWER
December 8, 2006

http://www.nysun.com/article/44831

-------------------

The approach of the New Year and departure of the old inevitably brings a flurry of "year's best" lists. This even applies to nations, which some organizations make it their business annually to rank in order of wealth, quality of life, and what-have-you.

Surprisingly often, the Nordic countries come out on top. This placement is usually a reflection less of objective reality, however, than of the list-makers' enthusiasm for the Nordic welfare-state model. The criteria, in other words, are formulated in such a way that the Nordic countries will inevitably end up on top. Hence Norway, for example, is repeatedly named by the United Nations as the world's richest country — forget that prices and taxes are so high that even business executives lunch on dry sandwiches brought from home in aluminum foil.

Now it's Sweden's turn. The Economist Intelligence Unit, associated with the Economist magazine, has awarded the title of world's most democratic country to Sweden. For many observers, this is not only wrong — it's staggeringly, outrageously misinformed.

Sweden is, after all, a country in which the people are fed by their political, press, and intellectual establishment an unvarying diet of propaganda promoting the socialist welfare state, demonizing Israel, and whitewashing Islam. As for America, the official view was neatly captured in a post-September 11 editorial in the nation's largest newspaper, Aftonbladet, which assured readers that the terrorists who attacked New York and Washington weren't Sweden's enemies but simply hated " U.S. imperialism," a reasonable position given that "the U.S. is the greatest mass murderer of our time." Such views, taught in Sweden's classrooms and enshrined in Sweden's state-approved schoolbooks, are reiterated daily by Sweden's mainstream press organizations, all of which are either government-owned or government-subsidized.

Dissent is powerfully discouraged. In Sweden, whose murder rate is currently twice that of America and where Muslims now constitute over 10% of the population and are disproportionately unemployed and ****e to violence, the Swedish press routinely depicts America as crime-ridden. Polls show that the majority of Swedes are deeply disturbed by their country's dramatic social changes and highly critical of the policies that brought them about. Yet the crime and violence generally go unreported, so only rarely does any of the criticism seep into the press. Though two-thirds of Swedes question whether Islam is compatible with Western society, this issue is simply not open for public discussion.

To quote Jonathan Friedman, a New Yorker who teaches social anthropology at the University of Lund, "no debate about immigration policies is possible" because Sweden's "political class," which controls public debate, simply avoids the topic. Recently, the city of Stockholm carried out a survey of ninth-grade boys in the predominantly Muslim suburb of Rinkeby. The survey showed that in the last year, 17% of the boys had forced someone to have ***, 31% had hurt someone so badly that the victim required medical care, and 24% had committed burglary or broken into a car. Sensational statistics — but in all of Sweden, they appear to have been published only in a daily newssheet that is distributed free on the subways.

Instead of reporting on such worrisome findings, politicians and the press alike focus on the evils of America and Israel. Last year, for instance, Sweden's state-owned TV network ran a series of "documentaries" about America that included Michael Moore's "Bowling for Columbine." Viewers were protected from the fact that it had been shown to contain lies and fabrications. The series also included a sympathetic account of Stalin's atomic spies Julius and Ethel Rosenberg, whom Swedish TV described as having been executed not for history's most colossal act of treason but "for their Communist sympathies," and something called "Why We Fight," which explained America's military actions as motivated by the avarice of military contractors.

Swedish book publishing is similarly unbalanced. Recently Michael Moynihan, an American writer based in Stockholm, toted up the English-language political books that had been translated into Swedish since September 11. His long list included several works apiece by Noam Chomsky and Michael Moore, plus volumes by the communist historian Eric Hobsbawm, the anti-American journalist John Pilger, and the "Holocaust industry" critic Norman Finkelstein. On the entire list, only one author was not a leftist.

When voices of dissent do break through in Sweden, they're often punished. During the runup to the Iraq war, the Swedish government censured the independent TV channel TV4 for running an "Oprah" episode that presented both pro- and anti-war arguments. TV4 was charged with violating press-balance guidelines when in fact its offense was being too balanced — it had exposed Swedish viewers to ideas from which journalists had otherwise shielded them.

Only one sizable party in the country, the Sweden Democrats, articulates most Swedes' concerns about their country's immigration and integration policies. Again and again, it has been the object of breathtakingly undemocratic treatment by the political establishment. Earlier this year, for example, the government closed down the Sweden Democrats' web site because it had published a cartoon of Muhammad. Stig Fredriksson, head of the free-speech organization Publicistklubben, complained bitterly. But the incident was hardly reported in Sweden — and, of course, barely caused a ripple abroad. If the Bush administration had closed down a Democratic Party Web site, there would be scare headlines and editorials thundering about dictatorship — and rightly so. But when Sweden's rulers did it, it was apparently acceptable — because they did it in the name of political correctness.

Sweden Democrats have been the targets of events that recall China's Cultural Revolution. Staged "people's protests" by members of the "youth divisions" of other parties have led to the firing of Sweden Democrats from their jobs. A few weeks ago, a junior diplomat was dismissed when it became known that he was a member of the party and had criticized his country's immigration policy. On several occasions, thugs loyal to the ruling parties have broken up Sweden Democratic meetings and beaten up party leaders. And this is a nation in which a party led by an admitted communist was, in recent memory, part of the ruling coalition.

The Sweden Democrats enjoy considerable public sympathy. But given Sweden's oppressively conformist political climate, that sympathy is of necessity largely sub rosa. Mr. Friedman has suggested that one reason why the party has no seats in Parliament is that Swedish elections aren't really secret — other people at the polling place can look at your ballot and see which party you support. The stigma attached to voting for the Sweden Democrats is just that strong. Another reason is that the major parties have worked together vigorously to keep the Sweden Democrats out of the public square. The success of this collaborative effort is reflected in the fact that Sweden is the only major Western European country whose legislature contains not a single representative of a party critical of its immigration policies.

In 1972, the British historian Roland Huntford titled his book about Sweden "The New Totalitarians." He is echoed by a number of observers today who describe Sweden as an example of "soft totalitarianism." Are they right? That's a matter for debate — though it's a debate that won't take place in Sweden.

[name already taken]

While Sweden Slept
In Sweden, whose murder rate is currently twice that of America

Murder rates: _5.64 U.S.A. _1.97 Sweden (http://www.angelfire.com/rnb/y/homicide.htm) figures are from 2000.

I wonder where this affirmation comes from. I'd suspect some problems analyzing other's realities with a US analisys grid.

From a journalist, it's not very surprising. The idea being to demonize international institutions, I would say it's business as usual.

But it's better to check facts before publishing, as opposed to what this newspaper did.

[Resurrection]

Murder rates: _5.64 U.S.A. _1.97 Sweden (http://www.angelfire.com/rnb/y/homicide.htm) figures are from 2000.

There are unfortunately a couple of factual errors in the article. Nevertheless, the author still raises some good points. His remarks about the Sweden Democrats and how the party is treated as well as the general debate climate here in Sweden with the "political class" steering from above are spot on.

[name already taken]

There are unfortunately a couple of factual errors in the article. Nevertheless, the author still raises some good points. His remarks about the Sweden Democrats and how the party is treated as well as the general debate climate here in Sweden with the "political class" steering from above are spot on.
I see your point. But then you don't come to see the amplitude of the corruption and propaganda currently coming out of the USA as much as we do here.

To say that Michael Moore and Noam Chomsky are liars is a far right opinion at best. These two are democrat dissidents. And dissidence is no more tolerated in America right now than in Sweden.

If someone doesn't like you, you can be placed on the no fly list without any possibility to have yourself removed. Your house can be searched, the books you borrowed from the library can be searched by the FBI without warrant, without you having the right to even know about it.

And so on. I think America should not be taken as a model right now.

[name already taken]

And may I also add, we do have here an immigration problem we are not allowed to talk about:

Herouxville: Cause Celebre (http://www.canada.com/montrealgazette/news/story.html?id=8af3c4eb-5bc7-40bc-ba38-93f785c5646a)

[Laworkerbee]

And so on. I think America should not be taken as a model right now.

Each country should and will find the ideal model that fits it's peoples needs and wants, there is no universal model. Thats problably the one thing that drove me crazy about liberal Swede's when I lived there.

To say that Michael Moore and Noam Chomsky are liars is a far right opinion at best. These two are democrat dissidents. And dissidence is no more tolerated in America right now than in Sweden

Democrat dissidents eh? thats a good one

[Kaplanr]

I see your point. But then you don't come to see the amplitude of the corruption and propaganda currently coming out of the USA as much as we do here.

To say that Michael Moore and Noam Chomsky are liars is a far right opinion at best. These two are democrat dissidents. And dissidence is no more tolerated in America right now than in Sweden.

If someone doesn't like you, you can be placed on the no fly list without any possibility to have yourself removed. Your house can be searched, the books you borrowed from the library can be searched by the FBI without warrant, without you having the right to even know about it.

And so on. I think America should not be taken as a model right now.

Better go back and re-read the news then. For a place where dissidence isn't tolerated, both Chomsky and Moore seem pretty free to go about their businesses and produce / profess their views - for better or for worse.

Find me someone who was intentionally placed on a no-fly list because someone didn't like them, it's not so easy. Most cases, including that of Sen. Kennedy, are bureaucratic screw-ups of the worst kind. That's not to say people have been wrongfully accused and wrongfully denied their rights, but it isn't quite the intentional facist Orwellian darkplot you're making it out to be.

Same is true of houses and libraries (and I'm a librarian). They still need a warrant or a court order, like they always have. What has changed is that the criteria needed to get one or the other have changed and if issued as a result of the Patriot Act (bad law, badly named IMHO) you can't tell the "suspect" that they're under suspicion.

There is no denying that the civil rights that Americans took for granted prior to 9/11 have been degraded and corrupted, in most cases without merit or real cause (again IMHO.) But the American public is not laboring under some imminent facist yoke where those who disagree are repudiated, reviled and removed. At least no more than they normally were. My hope is that the Patriot Act is repealed the next time it comes up for renewal; I think it's largely ineffective. But then I think many of the steps the US has taken since 9/11 are more cosmetic than anything else, TSA included.

[Loki77]

In Sweden, whose murder rate is currently twice that of America and where Muslims now constitute over 10% of the population and are disproportionately unemployed and ****e to violence, the Swedish press routinely depicts America as crime-ridden.
Source???







(It's 4%...)

[Resurrection]

Source???







(It's 4%...)

When it comes to the amount of Muslims inside Sweden the author counts like many seem to do overseas, i.e. he includes second-generation immigrants and people from Islamic/Muslim countries, not only active believers.

Whether it's 5% or 10% is of little importance however, seeing as how we're going to reach that number soon enough. Since the beginning of January I believe, Malmö has been experiencing a refugee crisis - with hundreds of Iraqi asylum-seekers flooding in each month, many completely lacking any forms of identification. The city alone has taken in 33,500 "refugees" since 1992.

[Thor]

Good example of why you should do a fact check... Even if he's right in a majority of things the article is undermined by these factual errors.

[Russian_dude]

Well, the one thing that truly turns me against the Nordic Socialist republics are the huge car taxes. Not only are cars taxed 100%!!!!!!!! But the people make less money due to high taxes in the first place, as a car nut, that places these countries in the "Fourth Reich" categorie.
Oh and Scandinav women are hot, but dress like men and are so "feminazied" you'd rather pleasure yourself.
Oh and If I lived in a Scandinav countrie, I'd probably killed myself, since drinking oneself to death would be too expensive. The life there is so dull and mediocrity and surpression of individuality are the norm.

[Grimner]

The life there is so dull and mediocrity and surpression of individuality are the norm.
Life in sweden i mediocre? coming from a russian that's a laff

[supercontra]

Malmö has been experiencing a refugee crisis - with hundreds of Iraqi asylum-seekers flooding in each month, many completely lacking any forms of identification. The city alone has taken in 33,500 "refugees" since 1992.

Which is why I'm getting the **** out of this city

[supercontra]

Otherwise I can agree a lot with the first post on the politication of the swedish society, where even the "nämndemän" which correspond to a jury in court are politically appointed. Way to get a fair trial.......NOT!

[Thor]

Well, the one thing that truly turns me against the Nordic Socialist republics are the huge car taxes. Not only are cars taxed 100%!!!!!!!!
World's overall highest taxes... Though in Sweden car taxes are rather moderate thanks to the influencial automobile industry. Value added tax is 25 percent, and annual vehicle tax is around $400. In Norway and Denmark it's more expensive but I don't have any numbers.


But the people make less money due to high taxes in the first place, as a car nut, that places these countries in the "Fourth Reich" categorie.
Sure, taxed to death rings very true here. However people in general do very well and have comfortable lifestyles, and hence tax-cuts aren't really in demand.


Oh and Scandinav women are hot, but dress like men...
:D


...and are so "feminazied" you'd rather pleasure yourself.
You were probably attending some communist activites... And about pleasuring yourself, something tells me your options are kind of limited.


Oh and If I lived in a Scandinav countrie, I'd probably killed myself, since drinking oneself to death would be too expensive.
More likely you would be killed by one of your countrymen. Immigrants from former Soviet republics are up there among the most criminal immigrant groups, but for some reason they usually just kill each other.


The life there is so dull and mediocrity and surpression of individuality are the norm.
I'll tell you what's mediocre, not being able to spell mediocricity. Though I think you have us confused with continental Europe.. p-) Creativity, entreprenourship and hispeed people flourish in Sweden. I believe it was Newsweek that named us California of Europe (nevermind the snow).

Supression of individuality is somewhat true, especially compared to the US, hardly noticable compared to the rest of Europe.

[maytrows]

That article contains so many factual errors and cherrypicking it becomes laughable. One thing I find true though, there is no political discussion about immigration and it's effects on the swedish society.

On a note about the Oprah-show, the board that examined it made TV4 announce that the episode claimed to be impartial about the subject but the board found that by thier criteria for unbiasad reporting it was not, they didn´t censor anything. So basicly you could make your own mind up watching the show.

[LotN]

That article contains so many factual errors and cherrypicking it becomes laughable. One thing I find true though, there is no political discussion about immigration and it's effects on the swedish society.


That's the only part i agree with in that article, aside from that it's complete and utter BS.

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[M_S]

Oh no, the Sweden Democrat fanboys are here......

I bet most swedes writing on this thread, in favour for the article, are from the south.

If anything, this article is demonizing the immigrants.


There is no one reason for all of our problems, blaming the immigrants (non-ETHNIC swedes) is so 1940.

Det är sånna svin som ni (sverigedemokrater) som förstör landet.

[Thor]

I'll buy you a one way ticket back to Whateveristan if you promise to never return.

[OnTheRocks]

I'll buy you a one way ticket back to Whateveristan if you promise to never return.

LMAO

skitbra :D

[Loki77]

Oh no, the Sweden Democrat fanboys are here......

I bet most swedes writing on this thread, in favour for the article, are from the south.

If anything, this article is demonizing the immigrants.


There is no one reason for all of our problems, blaming the immigrants (non-ETHNIC swedes) is so 1940.

Det är sånna svin som ni (sverigedemokrater) som förstör landet.
This article is a crap...Ok

I'm not swede and I hate political parties. I, however, think swedes should have right to talk about immigration.
Immigration is Ok but without a control is dangerous. After all, Sweden is a democratic country.


When it comes to the amount of Muslims inside Sweden the author counts like many seem to do overseas, i.e. he includes second-generation immigrants and people from Islamic/Muslim countries, not only active believers.

Whether it's 5% or 10% is of little importance however, seeing as how we're going to reach that number soon enough. Since the beginning of January I believe, Malmö has been experiencing a refugee crisis - with hundreds of Iraqi asylum-seekers flooding in each month, many completely lacking any forms of identification. The city alone has taken in 33,500 "refugees" since 1992.
Man, you're a pessimist.
Don't play this game!!! Pessimism is unhelpful.

[Resurrection]

Man, you're a pessimist.
Don't play this game!!! Pessimism is unhelpful.

Mate, this tsunami of human meat coming in from Iraq and other areas is even worrying the authorities, which have requested help and an extra 1 billion SEK from the government. This can very well be the death blow for a somewhat civilized and safe Sweden. With a wave of this size, our welfare system will be exposed to an immense strain, not to mention the social consequences it will bring.

45% (that's over 8,000) of all asylum-seeking Iraqis in EU last year were granted asylum in Sweden. Now compare this with the fact that the UK, with a population of 60 million, only let in 808. The Migration Board's own forecasts tell us that up to 100,000 (30,000 asylum seekers + 70,000 relatives) will arrive in Sweden this year.

Swedish politicians seem to think that immigration is a competition between the countries of Europe, the more foreigners we let in the better. Sure, one can't help feeling sorry for those true refugees coming directly from war zones, but let's try to be rational here, how many can we realistically grant asylum to? How many gang rapes is it worth? How much more do the tax levels need to increase? Where will all these people live? Do you even want eight Arab 6-children families living next door to you?

The **** has hit the fan. We will never be able to offer all these foreigners the possibility of making their own living. And let me tell you - it's definately not easy being an optimist, taking the prevailing circumstances into consideration. What's worse is that the government is not letting us know how much this multicultural experiment is costing the tax payers, the figure can be anywhere from 40 to 240 billion SEK.


For those who are interested, the Board of Migration's alarming prognosis can be found here (http://www.migrationsverket.se/swedish/verket/skrivelser_reg/progkomm070115.pdf) (in Swedish).

[Gerle]

he includes second-generation immigrants and people from Islamic/Muslim countries, not only active believers.

Who could very well be Christians or Jews... While at the same time an immigrant from a predominantly Christian country such as Ethiopia could be Muslim.

"There are three types of lies - lies, damn lies, and statistics." :)

[Thor]

The argument makes sense, the numbers are probably higher than the official statistics.

[Superking]

Oh no, the Sweden Democrat fanboys are here......

I bet most swedes writing on this thread, in favour for the article, are from the south.

If anything, this article is demonizing the immigrants.


There is no one reason for all of our problems, blaming the immigrants (non-ETHNIC swedes) is so 1940.

Det är sånna svin som ni (sverigedemokrater) som förstör landet.

Calling someone "extreme right" just because he´s from Skåne and is so 90's. Have you ever lived there? I lived there (Malmö) for 15+ years and it IS a ****hole when it comes to immigrant crime, many/most of my friends and me have been attacked on the street because we where swedish several times, this is not true for my friends in other cities.

Most people I know there have had these sorts of confrontations with the immigrant youth and nothing is being done. The former chief of police in Malmö spoke up and was labeled rascist in seconds (even talk of criminal charges) totally discounting his years of service and experience. People are scared ****less of even mentioning the immigrant/crime problem since the label Sverigedemokrat/rascist is thrown around so quick.

I have plenty of "immigrant" swedes in my family and they are probably more pissed than I because they get labeled right alongside these f*cking hoodlooms that no one dares to confront.

By the way, most people totally oblivious to this problem and most vocal on the subject is from the north and part of the "feelgood crew" (V) or (MP) and equally retarded as the (SD) crowd.

It is a total failure on integration and any balls to tackle the issue from the Social Democrats that has got us into this mess, not the Mickey Mouse club rascists.

[signatory]

That article contains so many factual errors and cherrypicking it becomes laughable. One thing I find true though, there is no political discussion about immigration and it's effects on the swedish society.

On a note about the Oprah-show, the board that examined it made TV4 announce that the episode claimed to be impartial about the subject but the board found that by thier criteria for unbiasad reporting it was not, they didn´t censor anything. So basicly you could make your own mind up watching the show.

Good post maytrows. I agree with your view and criticism.

News: Today minister's of the new Gov is calling on the EU to step up and share the refugee load. Only a Swedish article though.


EU måste ta ansvar för Irak
Ökad flyktingström Sverige tar emot över hälften av alla asylansökningar från irakier som görs i Europa. Nu krävs solidaritet mellan EU:s medlemsländer så att vi blir fler som delar på detta ansvar, skriver migrationsminister Tobias Billström och EU-minister Cecilia Malmström i ett gemensamt debattinlägg.

http://www.svd.se/dynamiskt/brannpunkt/did_14607263.asp

[Russian_dude]

World's overall highest taxes... Though in Sweden car taxes are rather moderate thanks to the influencial automobile industry. Value added tax is 25 percent, and annual vehicle tax is around $400. In Norway and Denmark it's more expensive but I don't have any numbers.


Sure, taxed to death rings very true here. However people in general do very well and have comfortable lifestyles, and hence tax-cuts aren't really in demand.


:D


You were probably attending some communist activites... And about pleasuring yourself, something tells me your options are kind of limited.


More likely you would be killed by one of your countrymen. Immigrants from former Soviet republics are up there among the most criminal immigrant groups, but for some reason they usually just kill each other.


I'll tell you what's mediocre, not being able to spell mediocricity. Though I think you have us confused with continental Europe.. p-) Creativity, entreprenourship and hispeed people flourish in Sweden. I believe it was Newsweek that named us California of Europe (nevermind the snow).

Supression of individuality is somewhat true, especially compared to the US, hardly noticable compared to the rest of Europe.

I was generalising all Scandinav countries, the car taxes in Sweden are not as bad as Denmark, where it is 100%.

And why live in a dull egaleterian society when you can have a drugs *** and rock and roll lifestyle in Russia. Sure it's more dangerous... but more fun too...

[Russian_dude]

Oh and I think I read in another article, that most Iraqis coming to Sweden are Christian... Still, better then muslim.

[Strafe]

I was generalising all Scandinav countries, the car taxes in Sweden are not as bad as Denmark, where it is 100%.
Finns come to Sweden or Germany to buy used cars because the Finnish tax-system.So i wouldnt say that other European countrys have high taxrates.We also have the second oldest cars in Europe after Greece.

And to the immigrant problem,Finland is doing the same mistakes as Sweden.

[Superking]

Oh and I think I read in another article, that most Iraqis coming to Sweden are Christian... Still, better then muslim.

In general, the Iraqi's that I´ve met here in sweden are either shia or christian and are all very nice people that wan't to work hard and intergrate to society.

Some of the most friendly immigrants I´ve met and worked with.

[Loki77]

Mate, this tsunami of human meat coming in from Iraq and other areas is even worrying the authorities, which have requested help and an extra 1 billion SEK from the government. This can very well be the death blow for a somewhat civilized and safe Sweden. With a wave of this size, our welfare system will be exposed to an immense strain, not to mention the social consequences it will bring.

45% (that's over 8,000) of all asylum-seeking Iraqis in EU last year were granted asylum in Sweden. Now compare this with the fact that the UK, with a population of 60 million, only let in 808. The Migration Board's own forecasts tell us that up to 100,000 (30,000 asylum seekers + 70,000 relatives) will arrive in Sweden this year.

The PC-mob claims it went "well" when we gave permanent residency to 100,000 ex-Yugoslavians during the previous economic recession (the worst since the 1930s). There was no national revolt then, and there won't be one now.

Swedish politicians seem to think that immigration is a competition between the countries of Europe, the more foreigners we let in the better. Sure, one can't help feeling sorry for those true refugees coming directly from war zones, but let's try to be rational here, how many can we realistically grant asylum to? How many gang rapes is it worth? How much more do the tax levels need to increase? Where will all these people live? Do you even want eight Arab 6-children families living next door to you?

The **** has hit the fan. We will never be able to offer all these foreigners the possibility of making their own living. And let me tell you - it's definately not easy being an optimist, taking the prevailing circumstances into consideration. What's worse is that the government is not letting us know how much this multicultural experiment is costing the tax payers, the figure can be anywhere from 40 to 240 billion SEK.


For those who are interested, the Board of Migration's alarming prognosis can be found here (http://www.migrationsverket.se/swedish/verket/skrivelser_reg/progkomm070115.pdf) (in Swedish).

Don't have to be angry anymore!
Resurrection... Sweden is a pretty sweet country. Unfortunately, the most PC country http://www.aftonbladet.se/vss/nyheter/story/0,2789,339091,00.html on earth.

Don't blame a muslim immigrant or asylum-seeking, blame your elite. Because, your elite has approved laws in 70's, which gives these individuals preferential treatment as compared to sweden citizens,
you need to raise hell with your legislator.

How i said immigration is Ok, but without a control is dangerous (social problems and ethnic tensions). The elites who are killing Western Civilization are interested in only money and power, by example, those bureaucrats in Brussels. And about immigrantion issue, Iceland is doing the same sh1t as Sweden.


Should you be optimist or pessimist? Personally, I find optimist you'll feel better.

Do you even want eight Arab 6-children families living next door to you?
It's complicated. I cannot live peacefully side by side with people who have another cultural background. I believe in democracy and individualism. Muslims stand by their religion entirely.

[M_S]

I'll buy you a one way ticket back to Whateveristan if you promise to never return.

Mer svensk än dig, speciellt om du är skåning..... =)

[Thor]

Mer svensk än dig, speciellt om du är skåning..... =)
No, and no, and english the only allowed language here.

[Hecatonchiros]

And to the immigrant problem,Finland is doing the same mistakes as Sweden.

We are always copying "storebror", in good and bad.... The swedes could declare that eating your own feces is good for you, and our brilliant leaders would be gobbling it up in no time, and telling us to do the same. :|

[Ria]

Are the Swedish Democrats considered the PC crowd? And how do the Socialists and Nationalists compare?

[Gerle]

I cannot live peacefully side by side with people who have another cultural background. I believe in democracy and individualism.

You don't find these two sentences somewhat contradictory? ;)

[Loki77]

You don't find these two sentences somewhat contradictory? ;)
Is not contradictory..
I think people feel more comfortable with people from their own country and who share their way of life. So they tend to group.

[Gerle]

You believe in individualism and democracy but can not live peacefully with someone of a different background? What if they share these values as well, but are otherwise way different, say, Thai/Japanese/Chilean/whatever? I just find it odd to say you believe in these values but can't peacefully coexist with others!

[signatory]

You believe in individualism and democracy but can not live peacefully with someone of a different background? What if they share these values as well, but are otherwise way different, say, Thai/Japanese/Chilean/whatever? I just find it odd to say you believe in these values but can't peacefully coexist with others!

You fail to understand the issue when you make a comment like that.

Sweden doesn't have a problem with asian, south american, European or most other immigrants. They come here not primarily as refugees but as people looking for jobs. And they do find work.

The issue is the influx of refugees from middle-east and north African land.
It's not just a few people every year. It's much more than can be properly absorbed by the society but even common sense criticism is attacked as "racism".

With stats like this:


Only 230 Iraqis were allowed to enter Germany last year and just 13 into France. Sweden, by contrast, granted asylum to 8,951 Iraqis in 2006

Consider the size of Sweden.

[K22GLE]

Are the Swedish Democrats considered the PC crowd? And how do the Socialists and Nationalists compare?

Imo the Swedish Democrats is a kind of conservative left wing party. They are today what the Social Democrats were 30 years ago. Exception is their policies on immigration which are quite negative. They are not PC. They had somewhat good results in the county elections this fall but now their inexperience shines through and they cannot fill their spots, people are leaving and the media is digging up dirt on their backgrounds.

The established parites are refusing to deal with them and new coalitions are formed to prevent SD from having impact.

[Gerle]

You fail to understand the issue when you make a comment like that.

No I don't, I know very well what the issue is.

However, I think stating that one is for individualism and democracy while simultaneously not being able to live with others who may very well be of the same opinion but of a different culture is just odd. How can one be so un-accepting of others if one claims to support individualism, is pro-democratic etc? I guess you accept others as long as they stay at home, is that it? Is it the act of being Muslim, the act of living on welfare, what? Yeah, people planning to live on welfare for ever suck, they do, I agree. What bothers you more, a Muslim immigrant who fends for himself or an ethnic Swede on chronic welfare? I know what my answer is, just curious to see what the real deal is!

[Ludipipo]

While Sweden Slept

By BRUCE BAWER
December 8, 2006

http://www.nysun.com/article/44831

-------------------

The approach of the New Year and departure of the old inevitably brings a flurry of "year's best" lists. This even applies to nations, which some organizations make it their business annually to rank in order of wealth, quality of life, and what-have-you.

Surprisingly often, the Nordic countries come out on top. This placement is usually a reflection less of objective reality, however, than of the list-makers' enthusiasm for the Nordic welfare-state model. The criteria, in other words, are formulated in such a way that the Nordic countries will inevitably end up on top. Hence Norway, for example, is repeatedly named by the United Nations as the world's richest country — forget that prices and taxes are so high that even business executives lunch on dry sandwiches brought from home in aluminum foil.

Now it's Sweden's turn. The Economist Intelligence Unit, associated with the Economist magazine, has awarded the title of world's most democratic country to Sweden. For many observers, this is not only wrong — it's staggeringly, outrageously misinformed.

Sweden is, after all, a country in which the people are fed by their political, press, and intellectual establishment an unvarying diet of propaganda promoting the socialist welfare state, demonizing Israel, and whitewashing Islam. As for America, the official view was neatly captured in a post-September 11 editorial in the nation's largest newspaper, Aftonbladet, which assured readers that the terrorists who attacked New York and Washington weren't Sweden's enemies but simply hated " U.S. imperialism," a reasonable position given that "the U.S. is the greatest mass murderer of our time." Such views, taught in Sweden's classrooms and enshrined in Sweden's state-approved schoolbooks, are reiterated daily by Sweden's mainstream press organizations, all of which are either government-owned or government-subsidized.

Dissent is powerfully discouraged. In Sweden, whose murder rate is currently twice that of America and where Muslims now constitute over 10% of the population and are disproportionately unemployed and ****e to violence, the Swedish press routinely depicts America as crime-ridden. Polls show that the majority of Swedes are deeply disturbed by their country's dramatic social changes and highly critical of the policies that brought them about. Yet the crime and violence generally go unreported, so only rarely does any of the criticism seep into the press. Though two-thirds of Swedes question whether Islam is compatible with Western society, this issue is simply not open for public discussion.

To quote Jonathan Friedman, a New Yorker who teaches social anthropology at the University of Lund, "no debate about immigration policies is possible" because Sweden's "political class," which controls public debate, simply avoids the topic. Recently, the city of Stockholm carried out a survey of ninth-grade boys in the predominantly Muslim suburb of Rinkeby. The survey showed that in the last year, 17% of the boys had forced someone to have ***, 31% had hurt someone so badly that the victim required medical care, and 24% had committed burglary or broken into a car. Sensational statistics — but in all of Sweden, they appear to have been published only in a daily newssheet that is distributed free on the subways.

Instead of reporting on such worrisome findings, politicians and the press alike focus on the evils of America and Israel. Last year, for instance, Sweden's state-owned TV network ran a series of "documentaries" about America that included Michael Moore's "Bowling for Columbine." Viewers were protected from the fact that it had been shown to contain lies and fabrications. The series also included a sympathetic account of Stalin's atomic spies Julius and Ethel Rosenberg, whom Swedish TV described as having been executed not for history's most colossal act of treason but "for their Communist sympathies," and something called "Why We Fight," which explained America's military actions as motivated by the avarice of military contractors.

Swedish book publishing is similarly unbalanced. Recently Michael Moynihan, an American writer based in Stockholm, toted up the English-language political books that had been translated into Swedish since September 11. His long list included several works apiece by Noam Chomsky and Michael Moore, plus volumes by the communist historian Eric Hobsbawm, the anti-American journalist John Pilger, and the "Holocaust industry" critic Norman Finkelstein. On the entire list, only one author was not a leftist.

When voices of dissent do break through in Sweden, they're often punished. During the runup to the Iraq war, the Swedish government censured the independent TV channel TV4 for running an "Oprah" episode that presented both pro- and anti-war arguments. TV4 was charged with violating press-balance guidelines when in fact its offense was being too balanced — it had exposed Swedish viewers to ideas from which journalists had otherwise shielded them.

Only one sizable party in the country, the Sweden Democrats, articulates most Swedes' concerns about their country's immigration and integration policies. Again and again, it has been the object of breathtakingly undemocratic treatment by the political establishment. Earlier this year, for example, the government closed down the Sweden Democrats' web site because it had published a cartoon of Muhammad. Stig Fredriksson, head of the free-speech organization Publicistklubben, complained bitterly. But the incident was hardly reported in Sweden — and, of course, barely caused a ripple abroad. If the Bush administration had closed down a Democratic Party Web site, there would be scare headlines and editorials thundering about dictatorship — and rightly so. But when Sweden's rulers did it, it was apparently acceptable — because they did it in the name of political correctness.

Sweden Democrats have been the targets of events that recall China's Cultural Revolution. Staged "people's protests" by members of the "youth divisions" of other parties have led to the firing of Sweden Democrats from their jobs. A few weeks ago, a junior diplomat was dismissed when it became known that he was a member of the party and had criticized his country's immigration policy. On several occasions, thugs loyal to the ruling parties have broken up Sweden Democratic meetings and beaten up party leaders. And this is a nation in which a party led by an admitted communist was, in recent memory, part of the ruling coalition.

The Sweden Democrats enjoy considerable public sympathy. But given Sweden's oppressively conformist political climate, that sympathy is of necessity largely sub rosa. Mr. Friedman has suggested that one reason why the party has no seats in Parliament is that Swedish elections aren't really secret — other people at the polling place can look at your ballot and see which party you support. The stigma attached to voting for the Sweden Democrats is just that strong. Another reason is that the major parties have worked together vigorously to keep the Sweden Democrats out of the public square. The success of this collaborative effort is reflected in the fact that Sweden is the only major Western European country whose legislature contains not a single representative of a party critical of its immigration policies.

In 1972, the British historian Roland Huntford titled his book about Sweden "The New Totalitarians." He is echoed by a number of observers today who describe Sweden as an example of "soft totalitarianism." Are they right? That's a matter for debate — though it's a debate that won't take place in Sweden.

Flashback I&I (Stong!!!!!111!!!!) :lol:

[Resurrection]

The Sweden Democrats is a national conservative party.


National conservatism is a political term used primarily in Europe to describe a type of conservatism which is mainly concerned with promoting nationalist feelings, as well as upholding cultural and ethnic identity. Many national conservatives are social conservatives, in favour of limiting immigration, and in Europe, they usually are eurosceptical.

No doubt an accurate description for a party like SD.


Imo the Swedish Democrats is a kind of conservative left wing party. They are today what the Social Democrats were 30 years ago. Exception is their policies on immigration which are quite negative.

I've heard quite a few people compare them to the Social Democrats of the 1940/50s. Sure, I understand how you and many others are thinking, but we have to keep in mind that the Social Democrats of back then and the Social Democrats of today have very little in common. With the risk of sounding a tad simplistic, you could say that they were more right-wing/conservative than today's right-wing alliance!

In my opinion SD is neither a left-wing nor a right-wing party, seeing as how nationalism is an ideology that oversteps the boundaries of conventional "block"-thinking. If we were to place them in a fack, which I am reluctant to do, centre-right or just right seems fitting.


Family policy:

- Lots of focus on the preservation of the nuclear family.
- Revert the decisions giving homo****** couples the right to adopt and lesbian couples the right to insemination.

In other words quite similar to the Christian Democrat's (right-wing) family policy.


Education/school policy:

- Introduce the possibility of moving disruptive and violent students to another school even against the wishes of the student (and his/her parents) in question.
- Give more authority and power to the teacher, for example by re-introducing detention and grades in behaviour. This in order to maintain a safe and orderly learning & working environment.

In other words very similar to the Liberal People's Party's (right-wing) school policy.


Health care policy:

- Shorten the health care lines/queues by providing economic resources and allowing serious private, but publicly financed health care alternatives.
- Rationalize the health care bureaucracy and abolish the county councils (landstingen).

In other words very similar to the joint health care policy of the whole right-wing alliance.


Immigration policy:

- Stop the mass immigration of today and go back to a responsible immigration policy where immigration is limited to a level that is not higher than in our neighbouring countries.
- Temporary, not permanent residential permits should be made default.
- Go back to the assimilation policy that was in effect until the mid-1970s, which involved the immigrants adapting to the Swedish society and not vice versa.

This is where the Sweden Democrats is unique, seeing as how each one of the seven established parties want to either maintain or increase the current level of immigration.


Crime/law enforcement policy:

- Enforce and strengthen border control
- Increase the number of police officers as well as their resources and authority/powers.
- Substantially harsher sentences for serious crimes and repeat offenders.
- Deport all foreigners who commit serious or repeat crimes and make them serve their sentences in their home country.

In other words somewhat similar to the joint law enforcement policy of the right-wing alliance. Definately nowhere near the left-wing's stance.


Economic policy:

- Make it easier for entrepreneurs wanting to start a small business in Sweden.
- Reduce the employment tax.
- Reduce the real estate tax and income tax for low-income households.
- Reduce the number of government authorities.

In other words very similar to the joint economic policy of the whole right-wing alliance.

[Resurrection]

They had somewhat good results in the county elections this fall but now their inexperience shines through and they cannot fill their spots, people are leaving and the media is digging up dirt on their backgrounds.

Why you're focusing on the results of the county council elections (landstingsvalet) instead of the municipality ditto (kommunvalet) is beyond me - care to explain?

The 2006 election was a very important milestone for SD. We are talking about a party that went from 1.44% (76,300 votes) in the 2002 parliamentary elections, to 2.93% (162,463 votes) in 2006, only 1.1% away from passing the 4 percent threshold necessary to enter parliament. We are talking about a party that went from 49 mandates in 29 municipalities (2002), to 288 mandates in 145 municipalities (2006).

After the huge success that this election turned out to be, do you find it surprising that SD has been experiencing a sudden shortage of representatives and hence the trouble filling all these new "spots"? The party has since several months back started "training" quite a number of soon-to-be local politicians, but this takes time as with everything else (like re-structuring the party organization). Of course there are other aspects we can look at, the election result is after all not the only factor.


Could it also be that the person in question risks...

1. Losing their job = source of income.

2. Being excluded from their trade union.

3. Losing friends and acquaintances.

4. Being exposed to sabotage against their own property.

5. Being exposed to physical abuse (see below).


Attacks against Sweden Democrats in 2002 (http://www.sdkuriren.se/tema_extremismnejtack_2002.php)
Attacks against Sweden Democrats in 2003 (http://www.sdkuriren.se/tema_extremismnejtack_2003.php)
Attacks against Sweden Democrats in 2004 (http://www.sdkuriren.se/tema_extremismnejtack_2004.php)
Attacks against Sweden Democrats in 2005 (http://www.sdkuriren.se/tema_extremismnejtack_2005.php)
Attacks against Sweden Democrats in 2006 (http://www.sdkuriren.se/tema_extremismnejtack_2006.php)


Björn Söder skadad efter attack mot utbildningsmöte (http://www.sdkuriren.se/nyheter.php?action=fullnews&id=2103)


Ett utbildningsmöte för nyvalda kommunfullmäktigeledamöter attackerades på söndagen av maskerade ungdomar som med hjälp av flaskor, stenar, järnrör, järnbitar och betongklumpar försökte storma möteslokalen.
Den eskalerande flatheten (http://www.sdkuriren.se/nyheter.php?action=fullnews&id=2112)


Nu har det inträffat igen; Sverigedemokraterna har blivit attackerade av maskerade ”vänsteraktivister”. Vad görs åt detta elände? Absolut ingenting! Samma flathet som alltid annars har blivit ett signum från polismyndigheten, och total tystnad råder från alla partier, trots att det gått en vecka sedan händelsen.

Annat ljud var det i skällan när centerpartiets lokal attackerades i Stockholm. Till saken hör att den lokalen var helt tom. Så var inte fallet då AFA attackerade Sverigedemokraternas utbildning i Eslöv den 15 oktober; då var lokalen fylld med ett 100-tal folkvalda politiker. Detta skamgrepp på demokratin blåste förbi helt utan reflektioner från de så kallade etablerade partierna.
Politiker avgår efter yx-hot (http://www.aftonbladet.se/vss/nyheter/story/0,2789,977903,00.html)


Sverigedemokraternas distriktsordförande i Östergötland, Adam Linnerheim, lämnar politiken på grund av att han utsatts för flera hot sedan i somras.

"Kulmen blev en yxa som sattes i min lägenhetsdörr i måndags. Jag vill varken utsätta mig själv, mina vänner, mina grannar eller min hyresvärd för det lidande som hoten medfört", meddelar Linnerheim i en skriftlig kommentar, *******erar corren.se. Adam Linnerheim avgår med omedelbar verkan.
My apologies for the Swedish text.

[Loki77]

You believe in individualism and democracy but can not live peacefully with someone of a different background? What if they share these values as well, but are otherwise way different, say, Thai/Japanese/Chilean/whatever? I just find it odd to say you believe in these values but can't peacefully coexist with others!

Sir, I believe in Democracy and individualism...

However, i don't believe in fairly tales. I think the problems do not from immigration in the strict sense but from the way the people are gathered according to religious and ethnic background.
Different cultures have different ways of doing things. It is not insensitive, rude, or racist to notice it and discuss it.

I find Sweden to be far too generous for giving the same rights to immigrants. By example, immigrants could become Sweden citizens as easily as legal foreign resident in Japan married to a Japanese could obtain permanent residency without citizenship rights.

[Strafe]

We are always copying "storebror", in good and bad.... The swedes could declare that eating your own feces is good for you, and our brilliant leaders would be gobbling it up in no time, and telling us to do the same. :|
Quoted for the truth.

[K22GLE]

Why you're focusing on the results of the county council elections (landstingsvalet) instead of the municipality ditto (kommunvalet) is beyond me - care to explain?

Translation problem only. I meant what you refer to as municipality elections.

I do find it suprising that when you reach your goals, you are not prepared for it. This is however a common problem in many areas ranging from business sales to politics and even military interventions.

It's sad to see that people cannot accept democratic election results and instead feels the need to do things like you describe. They probably aren't even voting themselves.

That is one of the things I like with SD reps. They dare to oppose without beeing anonymous. Would the autonomous groups perform their protests openly and take a debate they would gain credibilty. For a while atleast as they seldom can reason about what they think.

[Gerle]

I think the problems do not from immigration in the strict sense but from the way the people are gathered according to religious and ethnic background.
Different cultures have different ways of doing things.

But why is that such an issue in Sweden? Swedes settled together when they came to America, as did most everybody else, I guess, what's so different today?

About the different ways of doing things, yeah, I know. I have found that at least for me a persons culture, even his religion matters less than his personal standards and manners, I mean, there are plenty of cool people all over the world, as well as complete douche bags. I'd rather have a fcuking headhunter from PNG for a neighbor as long as he is cool rather than some of the neighbors I've had, American as well as Swedish...


I find Sweden to be far too generous for giving the same rights to immigrants. By example, immigrants could become Sweden citizens as easily as legal foreign resident in Japan married to a Japanese could obtain permanent residency without citizenship rights.

Man I don't know sh!t about Japanese laws, I just live here! :)

[Loki77]

Man I don't know sh!t about Japanese laws, I just live here! :)
Japan is a jus sanguinis state, meaning that it recognizes citizenship by blood, not by birth.


There are a number of aspects of Japanese society which foreigners find difficult.
Japanese citizens are recorded in koseki (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Koseki) (family registry) and jūminhyō (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J%C5%ABminhy%C5%8D) (resident registry) systems, while foreigners are only recorded in a separate alien registration system. A non-Japanese person cannot be directly added to a koseki, which is the main record of familial relations. As a result, based on official records, the Japanese spouse of a foreigner may appear to be a single head of household, and children may appear as illegitimate. Some municipalities compromise by allowing foreign spouses to be recorded in the "Notes" section of the koseki and jūminhyō.
Foreigners residing in Japan for longer than 90 days are issued an alien registration card. By law, foreigners must carry their passport or alien registration card at all times and present it to police upon demand, even though Japanese citizens are not required to carry identification. Recently, government officials have relaxed this policy, but foreigners still need identification.
Kanji (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kanji) (Chinese characters) are used as part of virtually all Japanese writing. Resident foreigners faced with paperwork from their local city wards and places of employment must generally learn about 2000 kanji before they can function independently in Japan. This often poses great difficulty for those from outside East Asia. However, many business and government offices provide translations of forms and other documents in English (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_language), and occasionally in other languages as well (such as Chinese (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_language) and Korean (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_language)). However, by their nature, such documents are often inaccurate, especially where specialist terminology is involved (e.g. vaccination notices, legal instructions etc.). Moreover, by their very nature, translated versions may not be up to date and thus pose additional procedural hurdles to those who are illiterate in Japanese and thus forced to rely on secondary documents. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic_issues_in_Japan#Assimilation_and_integration

[Gerle]

Japan is a jus sanguinis state, meaning that it recognizes citizenship by blood, not by birth.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic_issues_in_Japan#Assimilation_and_integration

And the US is a mix of jus soli and jus sanguinis, while Sweden I believe only applies jus sanguinis, right?

I would probably say Japan's laws make it too hard trying to become a Japanese citizen rather than Swedish laws being too lax.

Resurrection, if SD is so similar to FP, KD or whatever, why the need for three parties when maybe one would do better? Is there in your opinion something that scares the voters away from SD?

[Resurrection]

Resurrection, if SD is so similar to FP, KD or whatever, why the need for three parties when maybe one would do better?

A rhetorical question?

1. They represent different ideologies (liberalism, Christian Democracy, nationalism/national conservatism).

2. As I said earlier all the established parties are in favor of increased immigration levels and support the concept of multiculturalism coupled with "integration". Three things which are fully incompatible with the Sweden Democratic policy.

Johan Andersson from sdblogg.se posted an article earlier this week regarding his thoughts about the Alliance (a rather thought-provoking and solid analysis if you ask me). You can find it here (http://sdblogg.se/archives/inrikes/177).



Is there in your opinion something that scares the voters away from SD?

No, there shouldn't be. Possibly for those who are incapable of thinking for themselves and swallow whatever politically correct bull**** the establishment spews out.

[Laworkerbee]

Loving that new avatar Resurrection :)

[Resurrection]

;)


Here's an illustration I found comparing the SD election results of 2002 and 2006.

http://img230.imageshack.us/img230/4379/sdmunicipalmap20022006xj4.th.png (http://img230.imageshack.us/my.php?image=sdmunicipalmap20022006xj4.png)

[Loki77]

;)


Here's an illustration I found comparing the SD election results of 2002 and 2006.

http://img230.imageshack.us/img230/4379/sdmunicipalmap20022006xj4.th.png (http://img230.imageshack.us/my.php?image=sdmunicipalmap20022006xj4.png)
Just wondering. Which is the relation of SD with Dansk Folkeparti?

[Resurrection]

Sorry for the late reply.


Just wondering. Which is the relation of SD with Dansk Folkeparti?

Not really sure what you mean, could you explain?

Are you wondering what the relationship is like between the two parties or how they compare, policy-wise?

[Loki77]

Not really sure what you mean, could you explain?
..Well, i find politic platforms from Sweden Democrats as well as Danish People's Party similar. I, however, think Danish People's Party appeals to voters not only on an anti-immigrant platform, but also with a welfare state platform which is at odds with the Conservative danish government, but which is very close to the Social Democratic agenda.

As a result, the jump from Social Democrat to Danish People's Party is short, requiring only a nativist sentiment against immigrants. (Polls have shown that a great deal of the DPP voters are former Social Democrats, concerned with the decline of the welfare state and immigration).

Do you understand?


Are you wondering what the relationship is like between the two parties or how they compare, policy-wise?
Both...

[Loki77]

Taxi fraud among Norwegian-Pakistanis provoked the director of the film "Izzat": many lack respect for Norwegian values. Not by chance, thinks Ulrik Imtiaz Rolfsen (34).

Rolfsen is half Pakistani and knows the taxi field well from his relatives. He has also good insight into the criminal gang environment in the capital. His film "Izzat" is an account of the intensive and violent gangs.

Rolfsen think that it is good to fight the tax fraud among Norwegian-Pakistanis. He thinks there is an 'un-culture' in that community.

"For them the system is there for exploiting. That is the only way you can survive in Pakistan. When it is so easy like it is in Norway that it is in Norway, you're seen as a fool if you don't take advantage of the opportunity. If a Norwegian-Pakistani is caught for 'black' work or tax fraud he's not judged morally for it. In the community people think: he had bad luck that he was caught".

Rolfsen thinks Norwegians have difficulty understanding these attitudes towards the state in Pakistan.

"The Pakistani come from a society where you absolutely can't depend on the state. The state is the villain there and it doesn't pay to be honest. Honesty can be highly dangerous. People can only trust the family. You employ people from the family, you get married with people from the family. Then they come here, to a land where the only thing you can't depend on is the family. We Norwegians have a steadfast belief that the welfare state will take our hand. But these groups mistrust everything that's called state system. Additionally, this is often passed on to the children, that they shouldn't depend on the system, but rather exploit it. With that we can never go forward".

He stresses that not all Norwegian-Pakistanis cheat.

The director is convinced that the integration problems will grow if Norwegian politicians don't get a hold on things. He is especially concerned that Norwegian Pakistanis marry almost exclusively Pakistanis from Gujrat district in the Punjab, the place from which a large part of the 30,000 Norwegian-Pakistanis hail.

"Un-culture is enforced with the import of spouses to Norway. Since almost all come from the same area, they constitute a pretty homogenized culture.

He shows again that the spouses that are brought to Norway, are connected only to the family Many never learn Norwegian. So they are never integrated and the negative attitudes to Norwegian values is continuously renewed.

"Adults can learn Norwegian values through long life, but their kids start at zero again with a spouse from Gujrat.

Rolfsen thinks it is also simple to understand why so few opt out of these circles by, for example, marrying a Norwegian.

"If you don't have another social network, you are completely alone. You are dead for your family and you have additionally brought dishonor to them."

He stresses that Norwegian Pakistani youth have no sanctuary in Oslo

"Everybody knows everybody and everybody gossips the whole the time. When something happens with a family in Norway, everybody in the community knows of it within minutes, even at home in Punjab. Think also that the taxi drivers and tram workers constitute intelligence people. The only places you can be pretty sure that you are not seen are the contemporary art museum and the opera. But, you pass for the janitor.

We must realize that the values from the Pakistani villages aren't compatible with ours. That's placing people from 250 year ago in today's Norway. It's not enough to just teach them Norwegian. We must put in energy to teach them the value of our values, such as human rights"

He stresses: "This is not racism. We must call a spade a spade. Another reason that I say this is that the Norwegian society has values that must be guarded."
Source: Aftenposten (http://www.aftenposten.no/nyheter/iriks/article1666533.ece) (Norwegian)
Welcome to new Scandinavia...Thank you all Social-Democrats...:bash: