Baltic Sea Gas Pipeline Meets European Resistance

[daily666]

Europe | 17.02.2007
Baltic Sea Gas Pipeline Meets European Resistance

http://www.dw-world.de/dw/article/0,2144,2345720,00.html


Resistance to a planned Russian gas pipeline in the Baltic Sea is growing in Europe. Sweden is especially uneasy about the project. Besides environmental concerns, some Swedish politicians fear it may be used for spying.

Gotland is a small island in the central Baltic Sea, just 150 kilometers (93 miles) off the Swedish mainland. Known for its white beaches, this idyllic island is slowly but surely becoming better known for a more recent legacy: its opposition to the Russian gas pipeline project.

Nord Stream, a Russian-German consortium, is planning to build a 1,200 kilometer-long pipeline that will satisfy Europe's growing demand for natural gas, courtesy of Russian energy giant Gazprom. Starting 2010, the pipeline is expected to pump natural gas from Russia through the Baltic Sea to a location near Greifswald in northern Germany.

"The pipeline is going to go directly along the coast of Gotland," said Asa Andersson of the Swedish World Wildlife Fund (WWF). "The environmental impact is questionable. Nord Stream has to address all possible scenarios. So far, this has been neglected."

Andersson said other routes through the Baltic, possibly along previously established pipeline paths, should be examined.

Environmental assessment underway

Nord Stream is currently conducting an environmental impact assessment for the project. The consortium said it plans to present its final report to the various national authorities this fall.

While a country has the right to impose additional requirements it doubts pipeline's environmental safety, only states whose Germany, Russia, Finland, Denmark and Sweden have the ability to veto the project. Other neighboring countries, such as Poland or the Baltic States, are entitled to hear the report, but have no veto powers.

"All sensitive points are being carefully reviewed," said the chairman of the shareholder’s board on Wednesday in Brussels. He is Gerhard Schröder, the former chancellor of Germany who enjoyed friendly ties with Russian President Vladimir Putin.

Criticism from all angles

Despite the former chancellor's assurances, the mega-project has been met by criticism from all sides.

Swedish environmental groups are especially concerned that the pipeline passes too closely along the marine reserve near Gotland. They say the construction work could stir up toxins long dormant at the bottom of the seaand harm the flora and fauna living in the waters surrounding the Swedish island. Gotland's local fisheries also fear the pipeline could interfere with their fishing nets.

But the greatest concern is over tons of chemical weapons left over from World War II at the bottom of the sea.

"The munitions are a high security risk," Andersson said, adding that explosions could easily set free dangerous chemicals.

Nord Stream, however, said the explosives would not be a danger to the pipeline and that engineers are systematically scanning the seabed along the 1,200-kilometer long route.

"We are familiar with the storage sites for these munitions," Nord Stream spokeman Jens Müller said. "The pipeline will not run in their vicinity."

Ecological, political fears

Christian Dahlke, division head at the Office of Maritime Traffic and Hydrography, the federal agency that assesses Nord Stream's environmental report for Germany, said there is little reason for concern once the pipeline is built.

"Gazprom has grasped that this project has to be carried out along European guidelines," he said. "There weren’t any problems with pipelines in the North Sea."

But that hasn't stopped several German environmental groups from joining their Swedish and Finnish counterparts in opposing the pipeline. Warsaw has also come out against the plan, fearing Moscow could cuts gas deliveries to Poland in the future. If built, the pipeline could supply up to 25 percent of Europe's natural gas supplies by 2015.

Sweden's national security concerns

The pipeline has also become a security issue for the Swedes. Several Swedish politicians, from both the governing party and opposition, have publicly expressed concern that Russian intelligence agencies could abuse the pipeline project for renewed espionage activities along Sweden's coast.

Dehlke, however, said that murky security concerns are unlikely to be enough to nix the project.

"There have to be serious reasons, say in the area of environmental protection, for rejecting the project," he said. "The window for that is very tight."

[Mr Gently Benevolent]

I used to work fishing grounds that had gas pipelines run through them and although there is a bit of disruption initially, everything pretty much returns to normal after about 4 months. Some of the best fishing we ever had in winter was along the remains of the trench itself.
I can see the Swedes concern about spying, you could rig small hydrophone arrays or even a magnetometer onto valve heads.


But the greatest concern is over tons of chemical weapons left over from World War II at the bottom of the sea.

"The munitions are a high security risk," Andersson said, adding that explosions could easily set free dangerous chemicals.
The above concern is absolute wank as the chemicals have been leaching out of weapons in the Baltic and UK North Channel for years the trenching plough costs a fortune and they take every precaution to ensure that it is not blown up.

[Loki77]

Christian Dahlke, division head at the Office of Maritime Traffic and Hydrography, the federal agency that assesses Nord Stream's environmental report for Germany, said there is little reason for concern once the pipeline is built. ...Gas is not dangerous for water resources because the substances that are created by mutual reaction of hydrocarbons from the gas itself and water are not harmful substances...

[Thor]

Is this german journalist deliberately acting dumb or just ignoring the facts? It's not primarily about spying. This pipeline is planned to go through the swedish economic zone (economic zones are viable for pipelines according to international treaties) and be under swedish jurisdiction, but at the same time the russians have declared it as a future "vital economic interest" which is to be "secured" by the russian baltic fleet. We don't want any of their vital interests or naval vessels close to our territory and in the vicinity of our capital.

This threatens to stir up **** that have been buried for 200 years. We will be up against the wall and territorial integrity will be defended. This is why this could end up in a real ugly situation.

http://svt.se/content/1/c6/71/74/62/gasledning-stor_karta.jpg


And for those of you who didn't know, Peter Nord, Nord Stream or whatever the name of the russo-german company is, is run by a former STASI major.

[johanness]

hi daily666
you really want to discuss this all over again?

[Thor]

As for the environmental concerns it's not about gas leaks. The Baltic Sea has a very delicate ecosystem due to little inflow of water and because of a couple of centuries of heavy industrialization. Massive amounts of dumped chemical weapons is also delicate issue. These caches are often just identified and checked for leaks, if it's ok they are left untouched and regularly re-checked.

[signatory]

The project is not just on the seabed but also two or three service platforms that go above water and one of them really close to the Swedish island Gotland.

Even if the Russians do not plant listening devices the platforms themselves can be a problem for controlling the traffic in the baltic sea. The armed forces is just this moment studying the negative effect on off shore windpower plants on the surveillance radars. It's the same principle, we prefer 100% coverage when there's oil tankers and cr4p around. In a area we have responsibilities in.

http://img516.imageshack.us/img516/451/platformxe9.jpg

[Mr Gently Benevolent]

And for those of you who didn't know, Peter Nord, Nord Stream or whatever the name of the russo-german company is, is run by a former STASI major.Well we can count on the whole operation being run with great efficiency.

[Mr Gently Benevolent]

Even if the Russians do not plant listening devices the platforms themselves can be a problem for controlling the traffic in the baltic sea. The armed forces is just this moment studying the negative effect on off shore windpower plants on the surveillance radars. It's the same principle, we prefer 100% coverage when there's oil tankers and cr4p around. In a area we have responsibilities in.

http://img516.imageshack.us/img516/451/platformxe9.jpgI very much doubt that the valve modules will be the same size as the LNG well head rig shown in the above photo.

[Thor]

Well we can count on the whole operation being run with great efficiency.
Yup, just like a Trabant.


I very much doubt that the valve modules will be the same size as the LNG well head rig shown in the above photo.
You can't get a little bit pregnant.

[daily666]

hi daily666
you really want to discuss this all over again?

I'm not discussing anything yet, just posted the article, which is kinda interesting, and moreover caused some interesting replies. I didn't know the Nord Stream was run by the former STASI agent.

some more on the subject:

Gazprom pipeline plan gives Swedes the jitters
By Niklas Magnusson Bloomberg News
Published: February 1, 2007

STOCKHOLM: A Russian pipeline plan is stirring up old animosities in Sweden.

Gazprom, Russia's natural gas export monopoly, plans to increase supplies to Western Europe by building a 743 mile, or 1,195 kilometer, $8 billion pipeline under the Baltic Sea by 2010. Its proposal includes a maintenance platform off the Swedish island of Gotland, a flash point for armed conflict between the two countries for 850 years.

Many Gotland residents view the platform as an outpost for Russian spies and its military, and want their government to block it. For Swedes, defeated by Russia in 1721 in a battle that brought down the curtain on the Swedish Empire and ended its control of the Baltic Sea, the Gazprom plan revives that struggle in a modern, economic context.

"It's never good to have the Russians too close," said Roland Petterson, a Gotland fisherman who has trawled the Baltic for two decades. "I'm annoyed that they can draw a line across the Baltic Sea and that Sweden doesn't do anything about most of it being in the Swedish economic zone."

Gotland has 58,000 inhabitants. It lies 56 miles east of mainland Sweden and about 155 miles northwest of the Russian port of Kaliningrad. The island was last taken by Russia in 1809. News media in Gotland have stoked fears of a renewed invasion, with letters and editorials demanding that the pipeline be blocked.

"We're a little David against a mighty Goliath," said Stefaan de Maecker, 30, a member of Gotland's local Green Party. "The government must say no to the project now."

The pipeline, to be built with the German utility E.ON and the chemicals company BASF, would transport as much as 55 billion cubic meters, or 1,940 billion cubic feet, of gas a year, equal to six months of demand in Britain. Europe depends on Russia for a quarter of its gas needs.

Gazprom intends to build the pipeline to avoid transit through countries like Belarus and Ukraine. As the pipeline traverses Sweden's economic zone, the Swedish government may be able to demand a redesign or new route.

While Sweden cannot stop the pipeline under international law, it may be able to block installations along the route, said Bo Huldt, a professor at the Swedish National Defense College.

Prime Minister Fredrik Reinfeldt of Sweden said during a Jan. 12 visit to Germany that his government would respond after receiving a final proposal this year.

"It will be very important to see whether the environmental effects will be negative and if we could do something about that," he said.

President Vladimir Putin of Russia said Oct. 11 in Dresden that his country would heed "all environmental requirements." Gerhard Schröder, the former German chancellor, heads the project's supervisory board.

"We do not plan to use the pipeline for any purposes other than gas transportation," Irina Vasilyeva, a spokeswoman for the project, said in an e-mailed response to questions. "We shall observe all environmental, maritime and legal requirements, both national and international, during planning, construction, and operation of the pipeline."

Laying the pipeline on the seabed may unsettle an area littered with mines left from two world wars, Petterson, the fisherman, said. The pipeline also may disrupt fish-breeding grounds, and the security zones around the link would limit fishing, reducing the catch by as much as half, he added.

The pipeline may also deter tourists. More than 700,000 people visited Gotland in 2005, bringing 1.5 billion kronor, or $216 million, to the local economy, according to the tourism board.

"The pipeline sounds scary, as it's going to be so close," said Gunilla Gustavsson, a resident of Faaroe, off Gotland's northern tip. She moved there after her first visit to the island 35 years ago.

Putin said in October that the Russian Navy would guard the pipeline. That planned foray into Swedish waters has stirred memories of past military confrontations. Sweden and Russia began battling for control of the Baltic Sea in the 12th century and have since fought more than 10 wars.

Sweden gained territories along the eastern shore of the Baltic Sea in the 17th century, laying the foundation for the Swedish Empire that crumbled in 1721. During World War II, in which Sweden was neutral, the island was a sanctuary for thousands of people fleeing the Baltic countries of Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania.

In 1981, the Soviet nuclear submarine U-137 beached outside the Karlskrona naval base in southern Sweden, a reminder of Russia's undercover activities in Swedish waters.

"I understand that people, especially the old ones, are worried," said Oerjan Samuelsson, 49, who heads a team of 33 at Gotland's coast guard station in Slite. "It's a heritage we carry with us."

Some locals say Sweden lacks the military clout to check Russia's presence. The government scaled back military spending in 2004 and left Gotland with only 70 army personnel. Russia, by contrast, is upgrading its Baltic fleet by adding submarines.

"I don't want Russian military personnel the distance of a pair of binoculars away from Gotland," said Rolf Nilsson, Gotland's representative in the Swedish Parliament.


Those Swedes are really paranoid ;)

[Loki77]

And for those of you who didn't know, Peter Nord, Nord Stream or whatever the name of the russo-german company is, is run by a former STASI major.
I googled him on the well-known website Google.com and he seems pretty interesting..

Generaldirektor der Nordeuropäischen Gas-Pipeline Gesellschaft (NEGP) ist Matthias Warnig (50), bisher Russland-Repräsentant der Dresdner Bank. Warnig war bis 1989 Stasi-Major der DDR.

[Thor]

Gazprom pipeline plan gives Swedes the jitters
By Niklas Magnusson Bloomberg News
Published: February 1, 2007
This is another interesting aspect of this, even left-wing journalists and the wacko muppets in the green party are against it. Can't recall the last time there was this kind of unanymous concern from left to right throughout the political spectrum. In fact the lefties have criticized the government for not pushing harder (!).

[Maskirovka]

This is a joke. Ze ruzzans will never have mare balticum


http://img509.imageshack.us/img509/583/gasledningstorkartael1.jpg

[Thor]

"Mare Balticum, Mare Nostrum"

[GazB]

Very amusing.
The Swedes are worried about the Ruskies spying on them... what do they have to hide?
The Russians should shut up and accept NATO bases in Baltic Republics and Georgia, but the Russians can't even build a pipeline within xx kms of Sweden?
But it is the Russians that are Paranoid... how powerful do the Swedes think the Russians are? Do they expect the Russians to take on NATO, with the help of Belarus, a NATO that now includes the former warsaw pact forces as well... what is it the Swedes know about the Ruskies that we don't?

[Thor]

Very amusing.
The Swedes are worried about the Ruskies spying on them... what do they have to hide?
As previously mentioned that is not the primary concern.


The Russians should shut up and accept NATO bases in Baltic Republics and Georgia...
Who says you, we, or anyone else, are entitled to a saying? Those are independent nations.


...but the Russians can't even build a pipeline within xx kms of Sweden?
We are not members of NATO and we do not seek anyone's approval of our security concerns.


But it is the Russians that are Paranoid... how powerful do the Swedes think the Russians are? Do they expect the Russians to take on NATO, with the help of Belarus, a NATO that now includes the former warsaw pact forces as well... what is it the Swedes know about the Ruskies that we don't?
The Baltic Sea is a small, narrow sea that is of vital interest for the nations surrounding it. The working relationship among these nations has been fairly good for a period of time thanks to the fact that everyone has been trying to not p*** too much in each others pools. Now the russian administration is about to change that by ordering their baltic fleet, along with heavily increased funding, to make a strategic move to the west to "guard" this proposed pipeline situated very close to our territory. This is regarded by us as an unwelcome, aggressive move. A military build-up close to our heartland will be dealt with as a threat. The situation in this area will shift to permanently tense and with very little margin of error incidents are bound to happen.

[perdurabo]

"Mare Balticum, Mare Nostrum"
of course it is, apart from small % Russian coast its EU internal waters p-)

Thor BTW its you Swedes who are guilty of Russian power now, instead of trying to counquere Polish-Lithuanian Commonwelth we should have working alongside we both had Wasas on our thrones (altough you had protestant one we had catholic...) I have proposal, send your princess Victoria, we will find siutable man(i was thinking about british Harry -they could be talking about their military skills) for her and establish Polish kingdom with her in rule p-) then combined forces of Ducklanders, Swedes, Finns, Baltics will create new buffer zone beatwin EU and Chinarofl

[Russian_dude]

Yeah, what does Sweden have that the Russians would want to spy on? Secret herring canning process? The secret to high taxes? Volvo's latest Ford sourced engine?
It would be much easier to spy on Sweden using the old fashioned method of bribing people. All these high-tech gadgets on the bottom of the sea are just for techno-nerds who read too much Tom Clancy.
This new "SOSSUS" would be used for what? Spying on ferries bringing drunk Finns back home?

Get real, Sweden has bot been relevant to world affairs since Poltava. Sweden just tries to give itself importance by pretending Russia cares about it enough to spy on it.

[Flamming_Python]

Yeah, what does Sweden have that the Russians would want to spy on? Secret herring canning process? The secret to high taxes? Volvo's latest Ford sourced engine?
It would be much easier to spy on Sweden using the old fashioned method of bribing people. All these high-tech gadgets on the bottom of the sea are just for techno-nerds who read too much Tom Clancy.
This new "SOSSUS" would be used for what? Spying on ferries bringing drunk Finns back home?

Get real, Sweden has bot been relevant to world affairs since Poltava. Sweden just tries to give itself importance by pretending Russia cares about it enough to spy on it.

Well to be fair I think Sweden does have a point. They are after all not part of NATO, so perhaps it's wise for them to be cautious about their security with a rapidly resurgent country coming back to power on their doorstep.

But then again, sometimes the risk has to be taken. The baltic pipeline can bring much economical good to Europe, and Norway's gas won't last forever. In terms of the spying thing, I suppose it can be used for that, but I can't imagine that it can do anything that Russia's fleet cannot by observing Swedish naval movements.

[Switek]

None gas last forever...

I really believe that growing numbers of this investment opponents eventually stop it.

[shadowsrider]

Get real, Sweden has bot been relevant to world affairs since Poltava. Sweden just tries to give itself importance by pretending Russia cares about it enough to spy on it.

I thought that only Poland is object of such language but now Sweden is new Evil. ROTFL

[Jocker_89]

I thought that only Poland is object of such language but now Sweden is new Evil. ROTFL


You have forgotten about Lithuania Latvia and Estonia p-)

[signatory]

I very much doubt that the valve modules will be the same size as the LNG well head rig shown in the above photo.

Then tell NordStream to not use that picture in their Presentation folder.

http://www.nord-stream.ru/on-line/swe/files/24B4075C-5B50-4859-B446-77F80E9B06EF/presentation%20nordstreamfinal%20swedish%20brutto_sw.pdf

Or maybe this is an indication that Nordstream can indeed misrepresent things.

[signatory]

Very amusing.
The Swedes are worried about the Ruskies spying on them... what do they have to hide?
The Russians should shut up and accept NATO bases in Baltic Republics and Georgia, but the Russians can't even build a pipeline within xx kms of Sweden?
But it is the Russians that are Paranoid... how powerful do the Swedes think the Russians are? Do they expect the Russians to take on NATO, with the help of Belarus, a NATO that now includes the former warsaw pact forces as well... what is it the Swedes know about the Ruskies that we don't?

Only a dumbarsed amateur on this topic would make this all about military security concerns. Those are concerns at the bottom of the list.

[daily666]

None gas last forever...

I really believe that growing numbers of this investment opponents eventually stop it.

I don't. I think it will be built regardless of any opposition. Too much money on the stake. The investors must have forseen that.

[Switek]

I don't. I think it will be built regardless of any opposition. Too much money on the stake. The investors must have forseen that.

Politics, not money is a key matter. Too many, different counter interests.

[daily666]

Politics, not money is a key matter. Too many, different counter interests.

Money is the politics, and politics is all about the money. The only problem Nord Gas may have is that Swedes are the world's least corruptable nation, so maybe they'll stick to the rules they've set.

[Mr Gently Benevolent]

Then tell NordStream to not use that picture in their Presentation folder.

http://www.nord-stream.ru/on-line/swe/files/24B4075C-5B50-4859-B446-77F80E9B06EF/presentation%20nordstreamfinal%20swedish%20brutto_sw.pdf

Or maybe this is an indication that Nordstream can indeed misrepresent things.Or maybe the are not that media savvy, trust me on this one any surface installation will a lot smaller than the one pictured.

[Nagan]

I'd say screw EU, and think seriously about supplying the ASEAN region instead.
This pipeline even LOOKS unfeasible. If something's built just for the sake of circumnavigating a Russophobic frontline, it can't possibly be good.

[GazB]

Only a dumbarsed amateur on this topic would make this all about military security concerns. Those are concerns at the bottom of the list.

If it was bottom of the list why was it even mentioned in the first place by the Swedes? And please elaborate on the intelligence of my arse and how it effects this discussion, except to try to refute my points without coming up with anything sensible other than personal insults.


If something's built just for the sake of circumnavigating a Russophobic frontline, it can't possibly be good.

That is exactly what it is for... slip the oil and gas resources past the thieves so they can't demand a slice or steal a cut. Good for the seller and good for the buyer... bad for the thieves.

[*^*]

You have forgotten about Lithuania Latvia and Estonia p-)

And Moldova :).

[perdurabo]

That is exactly what it is for... slip the oil and gas resources past the thieves so they can't demand a slice or steal a cut. Good for the seller and good for the buyer... bad for the thieves.

before throwing insults better check map as you can bypass your homegrown thief luka and go only through EU countries, we PAY fair price foru your oil.

[AirsoftAdmiral]

In 1981, the Soviet nuclear submarine U-137 beached outside the Karlskrona naval base in southern Sweden, a reminder of Russia's undercover activities in Swedish waters

Oh! Let me see a nuclear submarine - U 137. In 1981? Well, Soviet navy did not have "U" designations, plus no nuclear subs were in the baltic fleet. The sub menioned was S-363 a Whiskey class DIESEL sub. As for swedish sub paranoia most of the sub contacts they had were not soviet but "other" subs. Back in the 80's Swedes were too peacefull, so someone had to play the "russian treat" game on them. Looks like its still working.

[Resurrection]

[...] plus no nuclear subs were in the baltic fleet.

What the author most likely meant was that it was a diesel submarine armed with nuclear weapons.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U_137


When the Swedish Defence Research Agency secretly started measuring for radioactive materials through the hull, using a specially configured coast guard boat, they detected something that was almost certainly Uranium-238 inside the submarine. They speculated it originated from a nuclear weapon – a torpedo, in the upper port tube.
Vasily Besedin has later confirmed that there were nuclear warheads on some of the torpedoes, and that the crew was ordered to destroy the boat, including these warheads, if Swedish forces tried to take control over the vessel.
http://img232.imageshack.us/img232/9430/ub106fo3.jpg
The coast guard boat...

http://img232.imageshack.us/img232/6342/ubat14xj4.jpg
... and the measuring instruments inside.


The sub menioned was S-363 a Whiskey class DIESEL sub.

Yes, that was the Soviet designation.


As for swedish sub paranoia most of the sub contacts they had were not soviet but "other" subs. Back in the 80's Swedes were too peacefull, so someone had to play the "russian treat" game on them.

Bull**** - you have anything to back that up? Because as it is now you're just spewing out letters.

[daily666]

Oh! Let me see a nuclear submarine - U 137. In 1981? Well, Soviet navy did not have "U" designations, plus no nuclear subs were in the baltic fleet. The sub menioned was S-363 a Whiskey class DIESEL sub. As for swedish sub paranoia most of the sub contacts they had were not soviet but "other" subs. Back in the 80's Swedes were too peacefull, so someone had to play the "russian treat" game on them. Looks like its still working.

Since you already got owned I'd like to remind you to prepare better for another Russia STRONG rant.

[Mamont]

Bull**** - you have anything to back that up? Because as it is now you're just spewing out letters.

Hmm, if you do not believe in swedish "sub paranoya" you could just rewiev all those sub-hunts back in 1970-80 years.. Even with those misterious "ufo-subs" with over 60mph underwater speeds. Olof Palme must be smiling now on that cloud up there looking down(or the other way around). As i remember, media campaign was at such hights that antisoviet opinion rises about 30-40%. Soviet union even proposed to use own anti-sub aviation if any "mass invasions of unknown subs" will happen.. Of course it was rejected.. :)

[signatory]

Finland faults environmental study into Russian-German gas pipeline
HELSINKI (AFX) - Finland has called into question the scope of an environmental assessment by Nord Stream AG of its proposed undersea gas pipeline between Russia and Germany, describing it as 'too general' and scientifically doubtful.

In a letter sent to other states in the Baltic sea -- through which the pipeline will pass -- the Finnish environment ministry also warned the timetable for a thorough study is 'extremely tight'.

More - link (http://www.forbes.com/business/feeds/afx/2007/02/27/afx3466120.html)

---
Against/critics... green.
http://img395.imageshack.us/img395/9465/againstpipevi8.jpg

[Switek]

Interesting analysis (http://www.gazetawyborcza.pl/1,76498,3942899.html?as=1&ias=2&startsz=x) of current activity of Gazprom. Unfortunatelly avialable only for Polish speakers.


Well I'd love to find it in English... anyway we cant sleep well. :)