Upgraded AG3 *REQ*

[Mablod]

Norway will hopefully soon buy new AR's in 5,56. They are evaluateing G36 KV3, SIG 551SB and C8IUR.
They will also upgrade many of our AG3's.
I was wondering if anyone have any more info or photos about the upgraded AG3's.

Here is a pic i found:http://www.fofo.no/forsvaretsforum.no/filestore/ag3-12.jpg

Reports from Iraq and A-stan the 5,56 is the weak for some situations.

America and other NATO countries are looking into 6.5 and 6.8 for a new NATO caliber.
Ironicly the Norwegian rifle comission considered 6.5 the best caliber in the late 1800's for the Krag Jørgensen rifle.

[dobrodan]

I have translated this article:
http://www.mil.no/haren/start/article.jhtml?articleID=135736


New weapons for the Army
For the Army, its important that the personnel have the best equipment the market can offer. That means the Army needs to be equipped with new smallarms - based on 5.56mm ammunition, according to new trials.

Last year, the Army decided to rely upon upgraded AG-3 7.62mm as the primary smallarm for the Army of the future. Now the Army´s leader-group is correcting that course.

Changing advice:
-The decision to invest in upgraded AG-3s was made founded on tests showing long-range accuracy and penetration was better than with competing weapons then available. These arguments we meant justified the high weight the AG-3 with ammunition, compared to weapons in caliber 5.56,the General-Inspector of the Army, Robert Mood says.

He is also the one now deciding the Army is to change the investmentproject for new smallarms.

- For us it is very important not to reduce the attention to science and the development of the equipment our troops have available, Mood assures.
He tells that the Army´s transformation- and doctrinecommand (Tradok), together with the Defence institute of science and the Defence logistics- organization has continued the testing of several weapons and ammunitions.
-We now have a better picture of the weapons compared to each other, the General-Inspector means.

Better seen in total
Tradok now has presented an report, which points in the direction that an investment in lighter weapons and ammunition is desirable. The new tests have given the Army a new base of facts. Amongst others, this regards longrange accuracy. Even though 7.62 is less affected by side-wind, it appears that the precision of new weapons in 5.56 is better. The reasons for this is a flatter trajectory, and that the bullet arrives faster out to 600m.
However, it is beyond any doubt of reason that 7.62 deposits more energy if it stops in the target, something doing greater damage when the projectile penetrates. It is still important to state that both calibers will incapacitate the enemy.

Relieving
The new tests proves that the advantages of the AG-3 which was the reason for upgrading it, is not decisive when new weapons and ammunitions have been tested.
The weight-factor has literally gained new weight. The combined weight of a soldier in combat-gear will be reduced by 3.5kgs with 5.56 in stead of 7.62, whereof 1.7kgs of the difference is made by the weapon, and 1.8kgs by the ammunition.

-For those of us having carried the AG-3 and combatload in the heat of Afghanistan, I believe the decision to reduce the weight is welcome. The most important is that we still retain, and in some cases improve the combat-ability of every soldier, Mood assures.

In the meanwhile
The procurement of the new weapons will come as an extension of the upgrading of the AG-3. The Army has a critical need of better smallarms-capacity as soon as possible. There is a requirement for such an amount that the organization can train with the same equipment they operate with.
Thats why the delivery of upgraded the AG-3s will be useful, and represent a decisive improvement in capacity while waiting for the new 5.56-weapons. The AG-3s will arrive in the spring. The first step towards the 5.56-weapons will be that the Army will request the DoD to allow procuring the weapons.
- I would prefer that the weapons were employed as soon as possible, preferrably within a couple years.Formerly, we have good examples of being able to procure equipment in a relatively short window of time if we join forces. We are now discussing with the DoD and the logistics-organization to work out how fast we can get moving, Robert Mood says.

[Mablod]

Thank you. This may sound a bit silly, but got any photos of the gun?

[Marsuitor]

http://www.pbase.com/marsuitor/afgh2006

[Mablod]

Thank you for the awesome pics. It's truly a beautiful country, lets hope there will be peace there soon.

[grabie_bis]

G36 and Sig,s were put under trials in Spain in 1998 along with Steyr AUG and GALIL, all in 5,56. HK was awarded the contract.

Hope Norway gets also the G36!

[dobrodan]

G36 and Sig,s were put under trials in Spain in 1998 along with Steyr AUG and GALIL, all in 5,56. HK was awarded the contract.

Hope Norway gets also the G36!

Latest rumor is the SIG is out, and The HK416 is in...

Then the choice should be a no-brainer...

[JoaMei]

Depends, the G36 is much cheaper to produce than the HK416.

[dobrodan]

Depends, the G36 is much cheaper to produce than the HK416.

It may be, but the HK416 is a quite a bit more compact.

The only things I like better with the G36 is the charginghandle and that it has a foldable stock.

What I really dont like about the G36 is the OAL, and that the magazines are proprietary, and extremely bulky.

IMO, the Magpul Masada is what the G36 should have been like.

[grabie_bis]

It may be, but the HK416 is a quite a bit more compact.

The only things I like better with the G36 is the charginghandle and that it has a foldable stock.

What I really dont like about the G36 is the OAL, and that the magazines are proprietary, and extremely bulky.

IMO, the Magpul Masada is what the G36 should have been like.


WTF is the OAL????

[Catch22]

Overall Lenght

[Rictor]

G36 and Sig,s were put under trials in Spain in 1998 along with Steyr AUG and GALIL, all in 5,56. HK was awarded the contract.

Hope Norway gets also the G36!

It would be one step closer to making the G36 the universal European AR. At last count Germany, Spain, Greece and Latvia all use it, with a ton of individual police and military forces also using it.

Does anyone know whether any country uses the G36K variant as their standard issue?

[Bobbo_]

g36 with retractable and foldable stock... and stanag mags... oh wait, thats scar and masada:P

HK416 is great too, now they made a non-RIS version of it.

I think we should wait and think about 6.5 and 6.8

[dobrodan]

I think we should wait and think about 6.5 and 6.8

I don´t think we should wait any longer. We have waited long enough.

But with an adoption of 5.56, it is very easy to adopt either 6.5 Grendel or 6.8SPC, because it only requires replacing a few parts (barrel, bolthead, magazine and sights) (Or eventually the 6.5 MPC, where you only have to replace the barrel)

[RS_Leo1A5]

What I really dont like about the G36 is the OAL, and that the magazines are proprietary, and extremely bulky.
There's a third-party magwell that let's the G36 take M16 magazines...

[exarmyguard]

G3 is an awesome and still relevant rifle. I hope Norway sticks with the G3 and forego's a 5.56mm design. Maybe buy a small lot of Diemaco C7's, enough for a battalion for certain missions.

[Mablod]

I don´t think we should wait any longer. We have waited long enough.

I agree. 6.5 or 6.8 will probabily not be NATO standard in 10-15 years or even more. If we buy new rifles now, they will possibly be worn out in that time.

[Bobbo_]

We've had our g3's for 30y+ now... The oldest ones that is.

c7 and c8 is just an improved version of the m4, but it still has the same old ****ty direct gas thing. 416's and g36's are better, but i hate those g36 magazines.