Muslims: 'ban' Un-islamic Schools

[Jeremiah]

By Gabriel Milland

DEMANDS for a ban on “un-Islamic” activities in schools will be set out by the Muslim Council of Britain today.

Targets include playground games, swimming lessons, school plays, parents’ evenings and even vaccinations.

And the calls for all children to be taught in Taliban-style conditions will be launched with the help of a senior Government education adviser.

Professor Tim Brighouse, chief adviser to London schools, was due to attend the event at the capital’s biggest mosque.

His presence there was seen as “deeply worrying”, and a sign that the report was backed by the Government.

Tory MP Greg Hands said: “The MCB needs to realise it has to move closer to the rest of the community, not away from it.

“The presence of Tim Brighouse implies Government back*ing of this report. This is very worrying.”

Terry Sanderson of the National Secular Society said the report was a “recipe for disaster”.

He added: “Schools with even just a handful of Muslim kids will find they have to follow these guidelines because there aren’t the staff to have one set of classes for Muslims and another for the rest.

“The MCB shouldn’t try to force its religious agenda on children who may not want it. The Government needs to send the MCB packing. Schools should be about teaching, not preaching.”

The report, Towards Greater Understanding – Meeting The Needs of Muslim Pupils In State Schools, says all schools should bring in effective bans for all pupils on “un-Islamic activities” like dance classes.

It also wants to limit certain activities during Ramadan. They include science lessons dealing with ***, parents’ evenings, exams and immunisation programmes.

The holy month – when eating and drinking is not allowed in daylight hours – should also see a ban on swimming lessons in case pupils swallow water in
the pool.

When swimming is allowed, boys should wear clothing covering their bodies “from the navel to the neck”, even during single-*** pool sessions, while girls must be covered up completely at all times, apart from the face and hands.

The MCB adds that schools should ensure contact sports, including football and basketball, “are always in single-gender groups”.

Even school trips are targeted in the report, which wants them all to be made single-*** “to encourage greater participation from Muslim pupils”.

It wants Arabic language classes for Muslim pupils, and says the Koran should be recited in music classes. And all schools should ensure they have prayer rooms with washing facilities attached, it says.

In art classes, Muslim children should not be allowed to draw people, as this is forbidden under some interpretations of Islamic law.

And while the MCB insists that all British children should learn about Islam, it wants Muslims to have the right to withdraw their children from RE lessons dealing with Christianity and other faiths.

The MCB says special treatment and opt-outs are necessary because otherwise Muslim pupils will feel excluded from school activities and lessons.

The MCB claims to be the voice of Britain’s 1.5million Muslims and was heavily courted by politicians including Tony Blair following the September 11 attacks. Its former secretary-general Iqbal Sacranie was awarded a knighthood in 2005.

But other Muslim groups criticised the report. Dr Ghayasuddin Siddiqui of the Muslim Parliament of Great Britain said: “There has been no discussion on these issues in the Muslim community.”

And the Sufi Muslim Council – which claims to represent far more British Muslims than the MCB – said the report misunderstood Ramadan.

It added: “This is not what Islam or Ramadan is about. Ramadan is about training yourself while carrying on with everyday life.”

The Department for Edu*cation tried to distance itself from the report last night, and insisted Professor Brighouse was attending the launch only in a “personal capacity”.

A spokesman said it would read the report “with interest”.

The MCB did not comment.

It came as Britain's first Muslim peer called for women to stop wearing veils, claiming that they represent “a barrier to integration”.

Reigniting the debate over the face veil, or niqab, Lord Ahmed of Rotherham said there was no religious reason why Muslim women should wear them – and claimed that veils now cause society more harm than good.

The peer, who has urged the authorities to clamp down on preachers of hate, spoke during a debate held in the heart of the Arab world.

He told a mainly Muslim audience in Doha, Qatar, that he does not want a legal ban on the veil being worn in public – as many other nations are introducing, including Muslim Turkey and Egypt.

But he said: “The face veil is a barrier to integration in the West. The veil is now a mark of separation, segregation and defiance against mainstream British culture.

“There’s nothing in the Koran to say that wearing a niqab is desirable, let alone compulsory. It’s purely cultural. It’s an identity thing which has been misinterpreted.

“They were supposed to be worn so that women wouldn’t be harassed. But women, and communities as a whole, are now being harassed because they are wearing them."

The Muslim Council of Britain’s assistant secretary
general, Inayat Bunglawala, said yesterday: “Peoples’ attitudes are responsible for harming integration, not veils.

“And wearing them is very much a matter for individual Muslim women.”

* What do YOU think? Should Muslims tell us how to run our schools? Comment NOW at Have Your Say.

[JoaMei]

Here in germany it happens from time to time that muslim children die when they fall into a River or Lake because they never learned to swim. Or they never get any warnings in Winter the when Ice is too thin to walk on it because they only hear News from their Homecountry.

[Wendigo]

Sure I'm in

[REGGIE HAMMOND]

Here in germany it happens from time to time that muslim children die when they fall into a River or Lake because they never learned to swim. Or they never get any warnings in Winter the when Ice is too thin to walk on it because they only hear News from their Homecountry.


I guess when you rely on Allah to take care of everything you do these things happen. What happened to Britain. God save the queen.

[Son of Damian]

There is a good number of Muslims that live in in DFW and the only problem I've heard of is, students who play sports during Ramadan might have problems with the afternoon heat since they don't eat during daylight hours.

[Kaapeli]

Great ideas. Let's implement them.

[Hydro]

What happened to Britain.


I think you should look a little more closely at the article. Absolutely NONE of this has been implemented, and it is not likely to be either. It's a long list of absolute crap written by a group of very narrow minded people.


Oh no, the Muslims are coming. Again.




And again.


These so called Islamic groups that love to provide "spokespeople" to the gullible media are like an embodiment of the short man syndrome, very vocal and loud, but when asked to step up goes very quiet and looks like a tit.

[Firetxmi]

Is there even a source for this, or is this some type of personal rant?

[EsoognomEhT]

Daily Express.

Seems like this journo and the Muslim council of Great Britain aren't the best of friends



Gabriel Milland (Daily Express, Friday 16th April 2004) accuses the blessed Prophet Muhammad of having “agreed a hudna (truce) with a bigger, more powerful enemy purely for the purpose of attacking and winning later.”
This is a deeply insulting and demonstrably false remark. The facts concerning the Treaty of Hudaybiyya – to which Milland has alluded - are briefly:
1. The Prophet and his companions were prevented by the pagan Arabs from visiting Makkah to perform the voluntary pilgrimage ('umrah). Instead of engaging in fighting with the pagans, and despite the willingness of his followers to enforce their religious rights, the Prophet chose a peaceful settlement by signing the Treaty of Hudaybiyya in 628 CE with the pagan Arabs.
2. Two years later, the pagan Arabs broke the treaty by attacking and killing 20 allies of the Muslims as they slept. It is internationally recognized that when one party breaks a treaty, the other party is released from its obligations.
3. Even after this attack, no bloody revenge was taken against those who broke the treaty. In fact, when the Muslims finally entered Makkah, an amnesty was granted to nearly all former enemies.
As the Foreign Editor of the Daily Express, perhaps Mr Milland could be advised to concentrate his thoughts on the illegal Israeli land-grab of Palestinian land in the West Bank which has just been endorsed by President Bush.
Yours faithfully,
Inayat Bunglawala,
Secretary,
Media Committee,
The Muslim Council of Britain




Daily Express attacked for 'disgraceful' headline
20th August, 2006

http://www.asiansinmedia.org/pictures/press/newspapers.gifThe Daily Express has come under intense criticism for running an inflammatory headline based on a recent poll of Britons on the subject of terrorism.

When asked if Britain is engaged in a "battle against Islamic terrorists", three out of four respondents believed it to be true. However, a frontpage article by the Daily Express' Gabriel Milland claimed: "Britain says: we're at war with Islam".

[Calanen]

http://www.express.co.uk/news_detail.html?sku=1264


That's the source.

[Mr Gently Benevolent]

Edit..............................................................................................................The actual document can be found here (http://www.mcb.org.uk/article_detail.php?article=announcement-623) it’s not really as exciting as Gabes version though. Gabe thinks the UK is at war with Islam not Islamic terrorists.
Jeremiah can you put the source for your article up for us please.

[Mr Gently Benevolent]

Ah you beat me to it Mongoose, I fed his name into DEVONthink and I got some nonsense about him saying there was 10,000 killed on 9/11.

[Firetxmi]

From the original article:



The current climate, in which there is much negative portrayal of Islam and Muslims, requires that this be given greater priority and impetus to ensure that Muslim pupils are appropriately accommodated for and become an integral part of mainstream school life and thereby society as a whole".

[vinny_121_ND]

Muslims are the minority, they can't tell how to run the school, but should fill out forms requesting permission to not attend activities. If they want to sit out from playing coed soccer, then so be it.

[Ameen]

I find these odd policies. Our Islamic school here, promotes physical activities greatly and we even have the gym open in the evening and weekends for things like floor hockey and basketball.

[tyovan]

If they want to live under Sharia or some other crap - they can GTFO out of the West.

[khukuri]

Interesting, if a Christian sect comes with crazy ideas it never reaches the newspapers, but if an Islamic one does so, suddenly its headlines. I am so fed up with this constant focus on Islamic crazies and them being more or less referred to as the Muslims in Britain,...

[AlterMega]

Muslims-achieving a global caliphate,one step at a time :)

[2Sheds_Jackson]

I'm not sure why people are criticizing the existence of the news story, rather than the content of the news story.

IMHO we had better develop thicker skin, and the ability to overcome our leftist lets-all-get-along cultural toilet training, or we're going to find ourselves being culturally displaced by a much smaller but more aggressive team. I see nothing wrong with reporting on a story like this. I think that people should know about any group trying to implement such outlandish policies - whether they're Muslims or Moonies or White Separatists or whatever. We already have a culture - we have already policies - under democracy, if we want to keep them, we're going to have to work for it even if it makes us uncomfortable. Just my .02 while I wait for the pizza.

[Thor]

Hilarious... Europe thank the socialists for Eurabia.


Interesting, if a Christian sect comes with crazy ideas it never reaches the newspapers, but if an Islamic one does so, suddenly its headlines. I am so fed up with this constant focus on Islamic crazies and them being more or less referred to as the Muslims in Britain,...
With the difference that these parasites and their terrorist friends have a large supporter base among their countrymen and fellow believers. This particular rats' nest is btw called "Muslim Council of Britain".

[Eokboy]

When swimming is allowed, boys should wear clothing covering their bodies “from the navel to the neck”, even during single-*** pool sessions, while girls must be covered up completely at all times, apart from the face and hands.
Isn't it supposed to be from the navel to the knees?

[INAT]

By Gabriel Milland

DEMANDS for a ban on “un-Islamic” activities in schools will be set out by the Muslim Council of Britain today.

Targets include playground games, swimming lessons, school plays, parents’ evenings and even vaccinations.

And the calls for all children to be taught in Taliban-style conditions will be launched with the help of a senior Government education adviser.

Professor Tim Brighouse, chief adviser to London schools, was due to attend the event at the capital’s biggest mosque.

His presence there was seen as “deeply worrying”, and a sign that the report was backed by the Government.

Tory MP Greg Hands said: “The MCB needs to realise it has to move closer to the rest of the community, not away from it.

“The presence of Tim Brighouse implies Government back*ing of this report. This is very worrying.”

Terry Sanderson of the National Secular Society said the report was a “recipe for disaster”.

He added: “Schools with even just a handful of Muslim kids will find they have to follow these guidelines because there aren’t the staff to have one set of classes for Muslims and another for the rest.

“The MCB shouldn’t try to force its religious agenda on children who may not want it. The Government needs to send the MCB packing. Schools should be about teaching, not preaching.”

The report, Towards Greater Understanding – Meeting The Needs of Muslim Pupils In State Schools, says all schools should bring in effective bans for all pupils on “un-Islamic activities” like dance classes.

It also wants to limit certain activities during Ramadan. They include science lessons dealing with ***, parents’ evenings, exams and immunisation programmes.

The holy month – when eating and drinking is not allowed in daylight hours – should also see a ban on swimming lessons in case pupils swallow water in
the pool.

When swimming is allowed, boys should wear clothing covering their bodies “from the navel to the neck”, even during single-*** pool sessions, while girls must be covered up completely at all times, apart from the face and hands.

The MCB adds that schools should ensure contact sports, including football and basketball, “are always in single-gender groups”.

Even school trips are targeted in the report, which wants them all to be made single-*** “to encourage greater participation from Muslim pupils”.

It wants Arabic language classes for Muslim pupils, and says the Koran should be recited in music classes. And all schools should ensure they have prayer rooms with washing facilities attached, it says.

In art classes, Muslim children should not be allowed to draw people, as this is forbidden under some interpretations of Islamic law.

And while the MCB insists that all British children should learn about Islam, it wants Muslims to have the right to withdraw their children from RE lessons dealing with Christianity and other faiths.

The MCB says special treatment and opt-outs are necessary because otherwise Muslim pupils will feel excluded from school activities and lessons.

The MCB claims to be the voice of Britain’s 1.5million Muslims and was heavily courted by politicians including Tony Blair following the September 11 attacks. Its former secretary-general Iqbal Sacranie was awarded a knighthood in 2005.

But other Muslim groups criticised the report. Dr Ghayasuddin Siddiqui of the Muslim Parliament of Great Britain said: “There has been no discussion on these issues in the Muslim community.”

And the Sufi Muslim Council – which claims to represent far more British Muslims than the MCB – said the report misunderstood Ramadan.

It added: “This is not what Islam or Ramadan is about. Ramadan is about training yourself while carrying on with everyday life.”

The Department for Edu*cation tried to distance itself from the report last night, and insisted Professor Brighouse was attending the launch only in a “personal capacity”.

A spokesman said it would read the report “with interest”.

The MCB did not comment.

It came as Britain's first Muslim peer called for women to stop wearing veils, claiming that they represent “a barrier to integration”.

Reigniting the debate over the face veil, or niqab, Lord Ahmed of Rotherham said there was no religious reason why Muslim women should wear them – and claimed that veils now cause society more harm than good.

The peer, who has urged the authorities to clamp down on preachers of hate, spoke during a debate held in the heart of the Arab world.

He told a mainly Muslim audience in Doha, Qatar, that he does not want a legal ban on the veil being worn in public – as many other nations are introducing, including Muslim Turkey and Egypt.

But he said: “The face veil is a barrier to integration in the West. The veil is now a mark of separation, segregation and defiance against mainstream British culture.

“There’s nothing in the Koran to say that wearing a niqab is desirable, let alone compulsory. It’s purely cultural. It’s an identity thing which has been misinterpreted.

“They were supposed to be worn so that women wouldn’t be harassed. But women, and communities as a whole, are now being harassed because they are wearing them."

The Muslim Council of Britain’s assistant secretary
general, Inayat Bunglawala, said yesterday: “Peoples’ attitudes are responsible for harming integration, not veils.

“And wearing them is very much a matter for individual Muslim women.”

* What do YOU think? Should Muslims tell us how to run our schools? Comment NOW at Have Your Say.


How far will the UK go with this muslim pandering.It seems that everything that is common and normal and good in the West is a insult to islam.I mean is it ever going to stop short of turning into the United (islamic) Kindom. Bloody hell when will the West learn that it is impossible to appease muslims by nature islam is expansionist(to be fair alot of other ideas and religions are expansionist as well).

[shire19]

Closest thing I could find on MCB's website, OP"s article is a bunch of BS imo..



20 Feb 2007


MCB launches 'Towards Greater Understanding- Meeting the Needs of Muslim Pupils in State Schools'


The Muslim Council of Britain will be launching its information and guidance document for schools entitled 'Towards Greater Understanding- Meeting the Needs of Muslim Pupils in State Schools' on Wednesday 21 February.

Based on best practice, the document gives information and guidance on how schools can respond positively to some commonly raised issues concerning Muslim pupils including halal food, dress code, Ramadan, provision for prayers, collective worship etc.

Professor Tim Brighouse (Chief advisor, London Schools) will be the chief guest.

http://www.mcb.org.uk/media/presstext.php?ann_id=240


Biased articles like these seem to show up online on an daily basis nowadays, I dont know what goes through the mind of these editors but it aint helping, they're just stirring up more trouble and resentment towards muslims in general

[LazerLordz]

What a load of bollocks.

[Mr Gently Benevolent]

How far will the UK go with this muslim pandering.It seems that everything that is common and normal and good in the West is a insult to islam.I mean is it ever going to stop short of turning into the United (islamic) Kindom. Bloody hell when will the West learn that it is impossible to appease muslims by nature islam is expansionist(to be fair alot of other ideas and religions are expansionist as well).The question you should be asking is how far will the UK go in the giving into the demands of all vocal minorities, the last town I stayed in had more Jewish kids in school than any other religious minority (no Muslims) and yet they were allowed to sit out and did so any religious education classes and also Christmas celebrations. The religious education in Scottish schools is pretty secular and all faiths are examined so I feel it should not be a subject that should be dropped.
We have the same problem with some Sikhs here in the UK they want segregation of girls and boys after primary education.

[tsuri]

I´ve read the report in part and what they are asking is ridiculous. I had initially thought the OP was exxagerated greatly, but in fact it´s not that far off. Sure they are not asking all pupils to adhere to all the rules but there are rules that certainly will affect other pupils greatly.

How can a single religious group make so many demands? School is no place for religious practice, what if the next religion comes along and considers it inappropriate for children to be schooled at all?

At school everyone´s equal and since there are so many religions, there should not be a single religious exception at all.
The right for the majority to dance/wear what they want/have lessons when they want etc is as great as the right of the minority to adhere to silly religious laws that prohibit participation in society.

[INAT]

The question you should be asking is how far will the UK go in the giving into the demands of all vocal minorities, the last town I stayed in had more Jewish kids in school than any other religious minority (no Muslims) and yet they were allowed to sit out and did so any religious education classes and also Christmas celebrations. The religious education in Scottish schools is pretty secular and all faiths are examined so I feel it should not be a subject that should be dropped.
We have the same problem with some Sikhs here in the UK they want segregation of girls and boys after primary education.


Granting any group special treatment is not ok.As long as the laws of the land are humanistic then it should go for all.If you move to a country you "assimilate" to the laws and customs of that land while also keeping your cultural values.It seems muslims refuse to do so in the UK,Germany,Italy any EU country.They take the democratic values and use them against the society/government that they live in.That is not right at all and when they form the majority in certain areas they start trouble.Look at France what was it the summer before last with the rioting.Imagine when muslims get close to being a majority in Europe :cantbeli: .No muslim country has put up with even a small percent of typical Western values/ideas/religion yet they demand and demand from Europe.

[Kaapeli]

How about all the stuff fundie Christians want. No *** education, morning prayers, teaching creationism etc.

Did you know that in England collective Christian prayers for students are actually mandatory in public schools even though not many schools have them.

[martinexsquaddie]

read the report basic how not to piss muslim parents off briefing
some things worth knowing some not

[Aggro]

One question. Why don't we just deport the Muslim crazies who hate us and our culture, and just keep the ones who want to integrate?

[Tyler Durden 95]

If they want to live under Sharia or some other crap - they can GTFO out of the West.

Too easy. They (such islamists fruitcakes) want this to happen here. Finally it will be a conflict between them and the moderate ones.

[fourenziks]

What the hell is going on with Europe!!??!!



God, I hope they implement some very restrictive immigration laws!!!

[TuRRiCaN]

Don't you love it when Serbs and Russians tell the west what it has to do? ;)

Bah @ the MCB.

[EsoognomEhT]

Don't you love it when Serbs and Russians tell the west what it has to do?

Well, if they try and tell anyone what to do in their own country they'll get shot in the head or such like p-)

[Ordie]

Here in the US people have the option of home schooling, private schools, or charter schools. It's no big deal. The challenge is when one has to compete for a job or get into college. In fact the headscarf is no big deal either.

The history of Islam has been of internal divisions since the establishment of the religion. One of the first divisions within Islam has been those who were from Mecca and those who converted outside of Mecca while Mohammed was still alive. For the next 500 years there has been many sects (many non-existant today) each claiming to be the true path.
The core paradigm for Muslims is that Allah has prescribed your life (A Calvanist point of view). How you live your life under a set of laws will allow you to live in paradise,(Again very Calvanist). Oddly enough there is no right or wrong answer on how one should live. In fact, there are three-four schools of Shiraia Laws on how one should live. Each claiming to be the true authority of Islamic law. There was even a Muslim school of thought that advocated the notion of "Free Will". Unfortunately they were massacred by the Sunni Orthodoxy.

Many times the interpretation is often based in aherence of the customs and norms of the individuals, not neccessarily religious. Many of these edicts happen if there is a specific ethnic/language group community of Muslims. Many of the norms of the home country take hold, and no one questions authority. It is not the case for diverse Muslim communities where customs and norms are diffrent (Indonesians, Americans, French, Indian, etc...)

[Thor]

Don't you love it when Serbs and Russians tell the west what it has to do? ;)

Bah @ the MCB.
I for one think that Europe, if anything, should pick up the eastern attitude towards these groups. Could you imagine this, or a pro-terrorist protest in Moscow? Njet.

[TuRRiCaN]

You mean genocide? How quaint.

[Thor]

More like zero-tolerance.

[EsoognomEhT]

Zero tolerance involving death squads no doubt

[Thor]

No genocide in Russia right now as far as I know.

[2Sheds_Jackson]

Closest thing I could find on MCB's website, OP"s article is a bunch of BS imo..


20 Feb 2007


MCB launches 'Towards Greater Understanding- Meeting the Needs of Muslim Pupils in State Schools'


The Muslim Council of Britain will be launching its information and guidance document for schools entitled 'Towards Greater Understanding- Meeting the Needs of Muslim Pupils in State Schools' on Wednesday 21 February.

Based on best practice, the document gives information and guidance on how schools can respond positively to some commonly raised issues concerning Muslim pupils including halal food, dress code, Ramadan, provision for prayers, collective worship etc.

Professor Tim Brighouse (Chief advisor, London Schools) will be the chief guest.

http://www.mcb.org.uk/media/presstext.php?ann_id=240

Biased articles like these seem to show up online on an daily basis nowadays, I dont know what goes through the mind of these editors but it aint helping, they're just stirring up more trouble and resentment towards muslims in general

Er, did you happen to see the BBC special on Muslims in the UK - about the American radical Muslim (I forget his name) and his teachings? The reporter went inside mosques undercover, while "prayers" were being said - and recorded the shocking reality of what was going on. I ask, because while hate and violence against "dirty kuffars" was being advocated inside, the wall plaque on the building outside said almost exactly the same "greater understanding" pablum as your news release. Both statements are designed for our consumption, and mean nothing. What matters is what goes on inside the Mosque, and inside the report. They can tell us that it's about "greater understanding" - but in reality, this understanding is a one-way street, where greater society is compelled to understand and accommodate them.

Did you download and read the .pdf document on the site? It recommends exactly what the original article said. Also, there's a large link on the site "Working for a Representative Britain" - a mechanism for using the system to get what they want. As is their right - but the rest of the country, if it does not want to look like it's living under the Taliban, should probably be working just as hard to maintain the values that has made the UK slightly more livable than Afghanistan.

[TuRRiCaN]

FYI there are death squads in the Russkie Federation. I've seen a documentary (http://www.cbc.ca/passionateeyemonday/feature_151104.html) claiming so.. And given total media blackout how could you tell if it's otherwise? The sincere words of Russian officials? p-)

[ferretmaster]

This secular attitude really pis**s me off. Perhaps they'd feel more at home in Afghanistan or similar? Or do they like the state benefits, free medical care, free eduction and other benefits the UK offers? If they want to live in and contribute positively to the UK, great - but JOIN society and live by it's standards - stop trying to segregate! It's like these hate-preaching Clerics, quote happy to take all the UK can offer, and at the same time advocate blowing innocent people to bits on our streets. If they don't like the West, GET THE F*&K OUT and go somewhere that entertains these sort of islamic beliefs. We can only be so tolerant.

[Jobu]

We can only be so tolerant.

Sure you say it and personally you mean it but publically there has been no indication that there's a limit. These people will push until there is a backlash and then cry discrimination when it does happen. It's a gameplan that works time and again and the liberal courts will side with them.

[clickhere]

I dont know what goes through the mind of these editors but it aint helping, they're just stirring up more trouble and resentment towards muslims in general

Now why would anyone want to do that......?

[Aggro]

This secular attitude really pis**s me off. Perhaps they'd feel more at home in Afghanistan or similar? Or do they like the state benefits, free medical care, free eduction and other benefits the UK offers? If they want to live in and contribute positively to the UK, great - but JOIN society and live by it's standards - stop trying to segregate! It's like these hate-preaching Clerics, quote happy to take all the UK can offer, and at the same time advocate blowing innocent people to bits on our streets. If they don't like the West, GET THE F*&K OUT and go somewhere that entertains these sort of islamic beliefs. We can only be so tolerant.
Ditto to ALL of that!

[Aggro]

PARASITE SAVAGES! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=peFQWuk4nuo) :-*$

[EsoognomEhT]

PARASITE SAVAGES! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=peFQWuk4nuo) :-*$

Oh dear...

[Straker]

Ever going to happen... possibly
Should ever happen... no

Why can't more religious schools be set up under state funding... ahh thats right the Government set a precedent by refusing to further fund many catholic schools that had previously been government funded in the 1950's when setting up the comprehensive system. Hence the limited number of them around today compared to 50 years ago (didn't happen to CofE Schools funnily enough). Although Bliar might be encouraged to do it as a parting gift, the man is a crypto-catholic.

[K3rmit]

Well,
I for one volunteer for any armed fight back against the 'islamic jihad' that tries to establish an islamic state here in the UK.

I have a daughter, and I in no way shape or form want to see this racist, sexist, homophobic religion get its claws on running the UK.

I do believe in living side by side in peace and tolerance, but, if push comes to shove, im gonna fight back with like minded people.

You get my daughter in a burqha over my dead body.

[Aggro]

Oh dear...
If that comment means you don't agree, then you obviously didn't hear what they were saying in the documentary.

[fourenziks]

Look at this, I try to speak up on the behalf of the Western European nations, and they you tell me to try that in my country...


Sorry buddy, but can you imagine a pro-Islamic, or an pro-Muslim protest in Belgrade or Moscow??!!??



Europe has been a Christian Continent, and that's the way it should stay, but Muslim states are popping up all over the Old Continent...


If you don't think that the bombings in London, and the riots in France were not racially motivated, than you have no place in a intelligent discussion...


Western Europe's liberal tendancies will end up screwing it up in the end...




Londonistan in 2020, and France is pretty much a North Arab country now....

[Aggro]

Well,
I for one volunteer for any armed fight back against the 'islamic jihad' that tries to establish an islamic state here in the UK.

I have a daughter, and I in no way shape or form want to see this racist, sexist, homophobic religion get its claws on running the UK.

I do believe in living side by side in peace and tolerance, but, if push comes to shove, im gonna fight back with like minded people.

You get my daughter in a burqha over my dead body.
I couldn't agree more!

[TuRRiCaN]

Look at this, I try to speak up on the behalf of the Western European nations, and they you tell me to try that in my country...


Sorry buddy, but can you imagine a pro-Islamic, or an pro-Muslim protest in Belgrade or Moscow??!!??



Europe has been a Christian Continent, and that's the way it should stay, but Muslim states are popping up all over the Old Continent...


If you don't think that the bombings in London, and the riots in France were not racially motivated, than you have no place in a intelligent discussion...


Western Europe's liberal tendancies will end up screwing it up in the end...




Londonistan in 2020, and France is pretty much a North Arab country now....

That funny rhetoric never gets old rofl

[Aggro]

Look at this, I try to speak up on the behalf of the Western European nations, and they you tell me to try that in my country...


Sorry buddy, but can you imagine a pro-Islamic, or an pro-Muslim protest in Belgrade or Moscow??!!??



Europe has been a Christian Continent, and that's the way it should stay, but Muslim states are popping up all over the Old Continent...


If you don't think that the bombings in London, and the riots in France were not racially motivated, than you have no place in a intelligent discussion...


Western Europe's liberal tendancies will end up screwing it up in the end...




Londonistan in 2020, and France is pretty much a North Arab country now....
I can now see your country's point back in the 90's. But I don't agree with the methods. Try to get rid of them through peaceful deportation first. If they won't go then stick a rifle up their noses!

[TuRRiCaN]

Wow.."stick a rifle up their noses!".. I mean just wow. This has turned into a fascist **** thread. I'm outta here!

[tyovan]

Don't you love it when Serbs and Russians tell the west what it has to do? ;)

Bah @ the MCB.

If I was included in this, I'd like to inform you I was bred, born, and raised in the West and I live here today. I don't want my country to be home to New Yorkistan or Washingtonistan...

[TuRRiCaN]

Yes, just like Russia was going to become Great Chechnya thanks to a nation of less than two million people? :roll: And all this slander against liberals. Wouldn't it be great to have more progressive liberals in the muslim world?

[Aggro]

Wow.."stick a rifle up their noses!".. I mean just wow. This has turned into a fascist **** thread. I'm outta here!
Shout hatred towards us in our own country, burn our flag (even if it is only the Union Jack), bomb our highstreets and transport systems, say they want to take over our country and laws, need I go on? Besides, these creeps are only the flip side of the BNP, if you get my drift.

EDIT: The only difference is that I've never heard the BNP suggest murdering anyone.

[TuRRiCaN]

Aggro can't you see you're grossly over-generalising here? That's quite an insult to all moderate people, and victims of ethnic cleansing.. I'll begin to worry when radicals become mainstream. Neither islamic fundies nor the BNP have achieved that status so far and hopefully they never will.

[Aggro]

Aggro can't you see you're grossly over-generalising here? That's quite an insult to all moderate people, and victims of ethnic cleansing.. I'll begin to worry when radicals become mainstream. Neither islamic fundies nor the BNP have achieved that status so far and hopefully they never will.
If anyone's geralising it's you. I was only talking about the crazies like the ones in the film (all it takes is a click of the mouse). The ones who want to integrate into our society and become English are more than welcome to stay. Although...I still feel that they ALL need watching though.

[Ordie]

Ever going to happen... possibly
Should ever happen... no

Why can't more religious schools be set up under state funding... ahh thats right the Government set a precedent by refusing to further fund many catholic schools that had previously been government funded in the 1950's when setting up the comprehensive system. Hence the limited number of them around today compared to 50 years ago (didn't happen to CofE Schools funnily enough). Although Bliar might be encouraged to do it as a parting gift, the man is a crypto-catholic.

In the US, Catholic Schools (K-12) are not subsidized by government funds or grants. Most private schools avoid any government funding on the premise that strings and reporting requirements are usually attached. However, private schools must meet local and state educational requirements.

[Resurrection]

How about all the stuff fundie Christians want. No *** education, morning prayers, teaching creationism etc.

Did you know that in England collective Christian prayers for students are actually mandatory in public schools even though not many schools have them.

Ahh... of course. It was just a matter of time before some confused oikophobic brought up this delusional and stale argument. In no way are "fundie" Christians a realistic threat to the Western society - Islam is on the other hand. Islam(ists), along with self-hating European leftists who piss on their own culture and religion are in fact the foremost threats to our way of life.

It is with grief in my heart that I see mosques today grow like mushrooms along the Swedish (and European) landscape, such a culturally foreign element lacks any rational raison d'être. This is exactly what our forefathers were trying to prevent from happening in the first place.

[2Sheds_Jackson]

Ahh... of course. It was just a matter of time before some confused oikophobic brought up this delusional and stale argument. In no way are "fundie" Christians a realistic threat to the Western society - Islam is on the other hand. Islam(ists), along with self-hating European leftists who piss on their own culture and religion are in fact the foremost threats to our way of life.

It is with grief in my heart that I see mosques today grow like mushrooms along the Swedish (and European) landscape, such a culturally foreign element lacks any rational raison d'être. This is exactly what our forefathers were trying to prevent from happening in the first place.

Very well put, imho. I have nothing against Islam, but it must be an "Islam-lite" that's culturally compatible with our established values. Any force trying to pull our society back 500 years should be looked upon with a great deal of scrutiny.

[Kaapeli]

Ahh... of course. It was just a matter of time before some confused oikophobic brought up this delusional and stale argument.

How's that?


In no way are "fundie" Christians a realistic threat to the Western society - Islam is on the other hand.

Based on what?
Christianity is a way more real threat to secularism in schools than Islam simply because of the numbers. Muslims with their 1-5% minority don't have a chance in getting any of their more stupid demands through the democratic process. Christian fundies on the other hand are a significant part of the population and actually have a chance in challenging the separation of state and religion.
Nobody has ever tried to indoctrinate me to Islamic beliefs anywhere (yet) but Christianity is being pushed on us everywhere. And you're telling me that I should be worried about Islam trying to enter my life. Get real.


Islam(ists), along with self-hating European leftists who piss on their own culture and religion are in fact the foremost threats to our way of life.

Christianity isn't my culture nor religion and it certainly isn't my way of life. Same goes for Islam and any other religion too.
Why can't fundies get it through their thick heads already? We don't mind your religion, whatever it is, as long as you keep it to yourselves.

[Calanen]

http://littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog/pdf/Schoolinfoguidance.pdf

Well here is the actual document that the article refers to, thanks to Little Green Footballs. Read it, and make up your own mind whether the journalist was right or was not.

Some personal favourites of mine:

Swimming During Ramadan

In general, participation in swimming is an acceptable activity whilst fasting. However, for many pupils this activity may prove to be an issue, as the potential for swallowing water is very high. Some pupils or parents consider the risk too great and may wish to avoid swimming whilst fasting. Others may take the view that as swallowing is unintentional it does not break the fast.

Schools with a significant number of Muslim pupils should try to avoid scheduling swimming lessons during Ramadan to remove unnecessary barriers to full participation.

Islamic Festivals Features of Good Practice


• The school includes possible dates for the two Eid festivals in their yearly calendar.

• The school grants Eid holidays as authorised absences for the observance of the special Eid prayers and celebrations for the two Eid festivals.

The school recognises and celebrates the two Eids and other Islamic festivals in collective worship or assembly themes.

The school celebrates Eid by sharing sweets amongst their children to mark the event. In addition, the school may make the normal school meal a special Eid meal for their pupils.

Dance

Dance is one of the activity areas of the national curriculum for physical education. Muslims consider that most dance activities, as practised in the curriculum, are not consistent with the Islamic requirements for modesty as they may involve ****** connotations and messages when performed within mixed-gender groups or if performed in front of mixed audiences. Most primary and secondary schools hold dance in mixed-gender classes and may include popular dance styles, in which movements of the body are seen as ******ly expressive and seductive in nature.

.......Schools are asked to respect these views and principles, which are held sincerely on the grounds of conscience, and to honour parents’ wishes by not placing pupils in situations of religious and moral compromise.

[Kaapeli]

Or maybe you're right Ressurrection. We should all turn to Christianity, unite under the cross and start praying real hard for the muslims to go away. Those infidels with their unholy ways. Christianity is our culture, religion and way of life after all and we'll have no other religions here building mosques and doing other un-christian stuff.

Swap Christianity with Islam, cross with halfmoon, mosque with church and you'll have yourself a radical muslim. Same poop, different label.

[shire19]

Er, did you happen to see the BBC special on Muslims in the UK - about the American radical Muslim (I forget his name) and his teachings? The reporter went inside mosques undercover, while "prayers" were being said - and recorded the shocking reality of what was going on. I ask, because while hate and violence against "dirty kuffars" was being advocated inside, the wall plaque on the building outside said almost exactly the same "greater understanding" pablum as your news release. Both statements are designed for our consumption, and mean nothing. What matters is what goes on inside the Mosque, and inside the report. They can tell us that it's about "greater understanding" - but in reality, this understanding is a one-way street, where greater society is compelled to understand and accommodate them.

Ive seen the undercover program but that doesnt mean I will assume all mosques have this sort of attitude in Britain, i've been in enough mosques to make my own conclusion on that.

This understanding being an one way street is your opinion, I will continue to believe that the majority of this country's muslim population wishes to adjust to the British way of life and does not want to be singled out as an minority and be catered too.. No matter how many articles pop up about so-called imams here and there demanding and demanding..



Did you download and read the .pdf document on the site? It recommends exactly what the original article said. Also, there's a large link on the site "Working for a Representative Britain" - a mechanism for using the system to get what they want. As is their right - but the rest of the country, if it does not want to look like it's living under the Taliban, should probably be working just as hard to maintain the values that has made the UK slightly more livable than Afghanistan.

I've read it briefly (ok maybe just two paragraphs) but so far have not seen any ban called on by the MCB concerning "un-islamic activities", that sounds like an intented exaggeration to me.

Either way, i find the report useless and unneccassary but its not my call.

[Resurrection]

How's that?

Your first assertion about Christians wanting to ban *** education is incorrect - the overwhelming majority of us do want one although with a few changes in the way it's "designed". Could you come up with a Christian person in politics (who actually has the power to change things) who has demanded that *** education be removed from the school curriculum? Don't waste your time if it's some mysterious sect and/or blog.

Stale because I have yet to experience a debate about Islam without someone bringing up the worn-out "well what about those Christians, they are just as evil"-argument. It gets tiring.


Christianity is a way more real threat to secularism in schools than Islam simply because of the numbers. Muslims with their 1-5% minority don't have a chance in getting any of their more stupid demands through the democratic process. Christian fundies on the other hand are a significant part of the population and actually have a chance in challenging the separation of state and religion.

How many are these fundamentalist Christians and where can they be found? I don't know how familiar you are with the Swedish political scene but would you class Kristdemokraterna (I think the Finnish equivalent would be Suomen Kristillisdemokraatit) as a fundamentalist group or are these moderate Christians?

Your thinking reminds me of an egoist's - lacking any sense of loyalty toward the European culture and putting your bloody secularism ahead of everything else, even to the point where you give Islam the advantage. Although I do not agree with you you mention that Christianity is being pushed on us everywhere, how would this be possible if not for the strong cultural roots that it has over time established in our region?


Nobody has ever tried to indoctrinate me to Islamic beliefs anywhere (yet) [...]

Police protect girls forced to convert to Islam (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=437871&in_page_id=1770)

It seems like the "world's fastest growing religion" is beginning to become desperate.


Or maybe you're right Ressurrection. We should all turn to Christianity, unite under the cross and start praying real hard for the muslims to go away. Those infidels with their unholy ways. Christianity is our culture, religion and way of life after all and we'll have no other religions here building mosques and doing other un-christian stuff.

Swap Christianity with Islam, cross with halfmoon, mosque with church and you'll have yourself a radical muslim. Same poop, different label.

Now now, let's try not to get carried away. :roll:

You're a typical religion-hater in other words, who can't differentiate between Christianity and Islam and who more than likely thinks that the problem will go away if it's just ignored. If the two really are the same "poop" (do you even want to be taken seriously?), then you shouldn't have a problem answering these questions:

1. Islam has "sharia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sharia)", what is the Christian equivalent?
2. Islam has "bid'ah (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bid%E2%80%98ah)", what is the Christian equivalent?
3. Islam has "jihad (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jihad)", what is the Christian equivalent?
4. Islam has "murtad (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apostasy_in_Islam)", what is the Christian equivalent?
5. Islam has "hudud (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hudud)", what is the Christian equivalent?
6. Jesus preached to "turn the other cheek", what has Muhammad said that is equivalent?


There's another important fundamental difference here you need to understand: sanctioning - what certain religions approve of and do not approve of. If a Christian shouts, "I kill you, Disbeliever, in the name of God", and kills someone, he/she is commiting an act not sanctioned/approved of by the religion. A Muslim who does the same thing on the other hand has the Quran's full support, there is an abundance of quotations* that express just that in plain language, unlike in the New Testament.

If you want to prove me wrong could you provide any quotations from the NT that maybe hint toward a sanctioning system similar to the Quran's? Don't be surprised though if you can't find anything.


-----------------------------------------------------------------

* Here are a couple of those quotations (source (http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/)):




Freedom from obligation (is proclaimed) from Allah and His messenger toward those of the idolaters with whom ye made a treaty.

Travel freely in the land four months, and know that ye cannot escape Allah and that Allah will confound the disbelievers (in His Guidance).

And an announcement from Allah and His Messenger, to the people (assembled) on the day of the Great Pilgrimage,- that Allah and His Messenger dissolve (treaty) obligations with the Pagans. If then, ye repent, it were best for you; but if ye turn away, know ye that ye cannot frustrate Allah. And proclaim a grievous penalty to those who reject Faith.

Excepting those of the idolaters with whom ye (Muslims) have a treaty, and who have since abated nothing of your right nor have supported anyone against you. (As for these), fulfil their treaty to them till their term. Lo! Allah loveth those who keep their duty (unto Him).

Then, when the sacred months have passed, slay the idolaters wherever ye find them, and take them (captive), and besiege them, and prepare for them each ambush. But if they repent and establish worship and pay the poor-due, then leave their way free. Lo! Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.


Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.

And the Jews say: Ezra is the son of Allah, and the Christians say: The Messiah is the son of Allah. That is their saying with their mouths. They imitate the saying of those who disbelieved of old. Allah (Himself) fighteth against them. How perverse are they!

They have taken as lords beside Allah their rabbis and their monks and the Messiah son of Mary, when they were bidden to worship only One Allah. There is no Allah save Him. Be He Glorified from all that they ascribe as partner (unto Him)!

Fain would they put out the light of Allah with their mouths, but Allah disdaineth (aught) save that He shall perfect His light, however much the disbelievers are averse.

He it is Who hath sent His messenger with the guidance and the Religion of Truth, that He may cause it to prevail over all religion, however much the idolaters may be averse.

O ye who believe! Lo! many of the (Jewish) rabbis and the (Christian) monks devour the wealth of mankind wantonly and debar (men) from the way of Allah. They who hoard up gold and silver and spend it not in the way of Allah, unto them give tidings (O Muhammad) of a painful doom,

On the day when it will (all) be heated in the fire of hell, and their foreheads and their flanks and their backs will be branded therewith (and it will be said unto them): Here is that which ye hoarded for yourselves. Now taste of what ye used to hoard.



O Prophet! Strive hard against the unbelievers and the Hypocrites, and be firm against them. Their abode is Hell,- an evil refuge indeed.



Narrated Jabir: The Prophet said, "Who is ready to kill Ka'b bin Ashraf (i.e. a Jew)." Muhammad bin Maslama replied, "Do you like me to kill him?" The Prophet replied in the affirmative. Muhammad bin Maslama said, "Then allow me to say what I like." The Prophet replied, "I do (i.e. allow you)."