Did Japan inspire Islamic Suicide Bombers ?

[Satellite Weapon]

-Japanese had the kamikaze during WW2
-Literature in Japan is often obsessed with the subject, books are filled with tales such as the heroic 47 ronin who went to martyrdom after they commit suicide
-The Lod attack on Tel Aviv was another kamikaze act by a leftist Japan group who were commitment to a suicide mission

[Exer]

But the japanese kamikazies went after military targets - and most islamic suicide bombers go after civilians. Not saying that suicide bombers dont go after military targets also.

[Xaito]

also Japanese Kamikaze did it for honor and because of sense of duty - not because of religion

[Ivan le Fou]

Suicide bombers consider themselves as "martyrs".


Kamikazes were soldiers. To them commiting suicide was an honor (suicide had to be granted by their superiors).


Nowdays suicide bombers have no pride, they are just a weapon "like another".

[exarmyguard]

I would think the islamic terr's would only read their holy book and not think to learn from other's teachings.

[R.D.]

I say we nuke Japan again... :cantbeli:

[Rictor]

also Japanese Kamikaze did it for honor and because of sense of duty - not because of religion

Same difference. The Japanese died for the glory of their nation, modern suicide bombers die for the glory of their religion. In my mind, that's a difference more on paper than in reality.

[SBL]

also Japanese Kamikaze did it for honor and because of sense of duty - not because of religion

That's the romantic version.
The average Japanese Kamikaze did it because they were pressured into it by a military culture obsessed with the ideal of dying for one's country, and for fear that their families back home would be disgraced and spurned should that particular soldier shirk his holy "duty".


I think it's a little simplistic to make a direct connection between Imperial Japanese suicide tactics, and Islamic suicide bombers because they share a similar means of delivery. Fanatics and desperate people dying for a cause is nothing new, and strapping a bomb to them is just happens to be a particularly effective means because it has a big psychological impact on the enemy.

[Lazy Lob]

I know next to nothing about Shinto or Buddhism. Did Japanese Kamikazes expect a heavenly reward for their sacrifice?

I have always wondered if a suicide bomber should be called a martyr. After all martyrdom implies sacrifice. Giving up something in return for nothing. Don’t suicide bombers expect some sort of recompense in heaven?

[BearInBunnySuit]

I wondered about that too but I think the question can be argued both ways.

Last year, I attended a seminar hosted by a Palestinian-American journalist. He said terrorists in the Middle East justify suicide bombing by pointing out that it is cheaper to use suicide bombers than to attack with weapons since guns are so expensive on the black market. I still have not been able to properly digest that comment.

As for the kamikazes, towards the end of the war, they were forcing men as young as 17 into the cockpits for their suicide mission and some of them weren't even Japanese but conscripts from countries they had colonized.

[SBL]

I know next to nothing about Shinto or Buddhism. Did Japanese Kamikazes expect a heavenly reward for their sacrifice?


Japanese Shintoism and Buddhism don't really deal in absolutes. Instead, the principles and beliefs are pretty vague. Shinto beliefs teach that the Kami (Shinto gods or spirits) do not reward or punish people after death, but rather people become Kami. After giving one's life for Japan/the Emperor, the kamikaze would be transformed into Kami and their families would recieve great honor. The family would in turn, reciprocate that honor by revering the spirit of the departed.

[BearInBunnySuit]

Japanese Shintoism and Buddhism don't really deal in absolutes. Instead, the principles and beliefs are pretty vague. Shinto beliefs teach that the Kami (Shinto gods or spirits) do not reward or punish people after death, but rather people become Kami. After giving one's life for Japan/the Emperor, the kamikaze would be transformed into Kami and their families would recieve great honor. The family would in turn, reciprocate that honor by revering the spirit of the departed.

Ah that explains the modern day homage to the war criminals at Yasukuni.

I wonder how the U.S. would react if Middle Eastern countries built a shrine and honored the memories of the terrorists from 9/11?

[Lazy Lob]

Japanese Shintoism and Buddhism don't really deal in absolutes. Instead, the principles and beliefs are pretty vague. Shinto beliefs teach that the Kami (Shinto gods or spirits) do not reward or punish people after death, but rather people become Kami. After giving one's life for Japan/the Emperor, the kamikaze would be transformed into Kami and their families would recieve great honor. The family would in turn, reciprocate that honor by revering the spirit of the departed.

Thank you.

[SBL]

Ah that explains the modern day homage to the war criminals at Yasukuni.

I wonder how the U.S. would react if Middle Eastern countries built a shrine and honored the memories of the terrorists from 9/11?

Oh boy, bringing up that old chestnut again? That's an awfully loaded comment to make.

[Xaito]

I say we nuke Japan again... :cantbeli:

I say next time is your turn to be nuked - you can't have the fun all for your self.



I wonder how the U.S. would react if Middle Eastern countries built a shrine and honored the memories of the terrorists from 9/11?
I think theres a difference between Kamikaze and terrorism - Kamikaze were - like mentioned before - soldiers and attacked their enemy in a war.


That's the romantic version.
The average Japanese Kamikaze did it because they were pressured into it by a military culture obsessed with the ideal of dying for one's country
that's right.


his holy "duty".
I think you make it sound too religious - suicide and dying for ones duty was part of Japan's (samurai) culture not of its religion

[socom6]

From what I understand it was the Sri Lankan Tamil Tigers and religious fervour of radical Islam that inspired these murder cult suicide bombers.

They have seen spectacular suicide attacks by the Tamil Tigers and with their warped misinterpetation of Islam they adopted suicide attacks as they think they are more "worthy" as follwers of Islam by dying for their God than the heathen Tamil Buddhists.

[SBL]

I think you make it sound too religious - suicide and dying for ones duty was part of Japan's (samurai) culture not of its religion

Holy just means "seperate" or "sacred", and it was certainly considered the sacred duty of subscribers to Bushido to die for Japan. Thus, "holy duty".

As I said before, it's all really vague and nebulous. You have to realize that for the average Japanese, there was little, if any distinction made between Religion and politics.
Bushido is a code of conduct (analagous to chivalry), suppsed to paint the picture of the ideal japanese warrior. The basis for that code of conduct ( loyalty, courage, respect, honesty,etc.) was rooted in romantic ideals handed down by the authorities to grant uniformity, structure, and obedience to Japanese society.
The level to which one was embraced the "religious" aspects of Japanese policy over the more practical ones probably had more to do with personal preference than anything else. Politics, religion, and bushido all ran together.

[Limeyfellow]

Its much more likely in the Middle East, that Islamic suicide bombers copies what they saw from Israeli suicide bombers in the 1940s during the terrorist attacks to win independence.

[Macs.]

[...]

First suicide attack

When people think of violent religious extremism today, Islamic suicide killers often spring to mind. But the first suicide attack in the history of the Abrahamic religions occurred about 1200 B.C.E., and its perpetrator was a Jew: Samson.

At that time, the Israelites were smarting under the yoke of their Philistine oppressors. Their leading resistance fighter was a bear of a man named Samson, who reportedly could rip apart a lion barehanded. But after his mistress Delilah betrayed the secret of his strength, the Philistines succeeded in overpowering him. They gouged out his eyes and paraded their prisoner through the streets to entertain the crowds.

On one such occasion, Samson asked to be taken to the central pillars of the Philistine's mighty temple. He prayed - "O Lord God, remember me, I pray thee, and strengthen me, I pray thee, only this once" - and then he pushed against the building's two main supports with all his might. "Let me die with the Philistines," he reportedly said before the roof came crashing down, burying both him and his tormentors. According to the Book of Judges, 3,000 men and women lost their lives.

The Hashshashin, an extremist Shiite group, figures prominently among the historical models for today's Islamist suicide killers. Active between 1090 and 1260, the sect was led by the mysterious Hassan bin al-Sabah, "the old man from the mountain." He commanded his forces - never more than a few thousand men - in an underground war against the Crusaders, and above all against the corrupt and autocratic Muslim rulers.

His was an unusual strategy: Rather than assembling an army, he dispatched suicide attackers to murder his adversaries and their leaders. These "sleepers" infiltrated the enemy ranks and then carried out their orders where they were least expected. After killing their designated targets, the murderers made no attempt to escape. "On the contrary," Islam expert Bernard Lewis has noted. "To have survived a mission was seen as a disgrace."

[...]


More: http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?p=2329649#post2329649

[deagle]

-Japanese had the kamikaze during WW2
-Literature in Japan is often obsessed with the subject, books are filled with tales such as the heroic 47 ronin who went to martyrdom after they commit suicide
-The Lod attack on Tel Aviv was another kamikaze act by a leftist Japan group who were commitment to a suicide mission


japanese attacked isreal ?

[SBL]

japanese attacked isreal ?

Evidently so. It was news to me as well.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lod_Airport_massacre

[khukuri]

But the japanese kamikazies went after military targets - and most islamic suicide bombers go after civilians. Not saying that suicide bombers dont go after military targets also.

Not true, most islamic suicide bombers can be found in manned VBIEDS against coalition troops.

[Exer]

Uhm... what...? if you read a little bit more of my post it will say they ALSO go after military.

[Mr.Flint]

Its much more likely in the Middle East, that Islamic suicide bombers copies what they saw from Israeli suicide bombers in the 1940s during the terrorist attacks to win independence.
There were no Israeli suicide bombers neither in 40ies nor ever.

[khukuri]

Uhm... what...? if you read a little bit more of my post it will say they ALSO go after military.

That applies to you and not me, It was a reply toyour statement
most islamic suicide bombers go after civilians Which I even put in bold. How hard can it be?

[Exer]

Nevermind, the point being that islamic terrorists go for civilians and military. And japanese kamikaze didnt go after civilians.

[deagle]

Evidently so. It was news to me as well.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lod_Airport_massacre


Interesting read, thanks for info bud !

[Lazy Lob]

Not true, most islamic suicide bombers in Iraq can be found in manned VBIEDS against coalition troops.


Fixed it for you.

That may not be true either. I don't know the Iraq statistics for IEDs, VBIEDs etc. I hazard a guess you don't either. What is clear that whether suicidal or not the civilians a feeling the main brunt by the sheer numbers of casualties at the hands of these bombers-murderers.

[Spy]

And japanese kamikaze didnt go after civilians.

only due to lack of possibilities, because their main targets were ships... the japanese military did not care much for the life of civilians or enemy combat medics in WWII..

[Spy]

double post...

[Exer]

only due to lack of possibilities, because their main targets were ships... the japanese military did not care much for the life of civilians or enemy combat medics in WWII..

That would be a theory neither of us could confirm or deny.

[Xaito]

I don't think Japan would have used kamikaze attacks on any less valuable targets.
If they would have attacked civilians in cities they would probably do it like the allies did - with bombers.

[Amerikosskiy_xyu]

-Japanese had the kamikaze during WW2
-Literature in Japan is often obsessed with the subject, books are filled with tales such as the heroic 47 ronin who went to martyrdom after they commit suicide
-The Lod attack on Tel Aviv was another kamikaze act by a leftist Japan group who were commitment to a suicide mission

Soviet Unioin also promoted a heroic death, which is nothing different from kamikazis. Except of course Japan was on offensive and SU was on defensive.

[Ordie]

Martyrs... Heros...

No difference really.

I've read somewhere that an American Flyer did a "kamikaze" in WW1.

[dangerclose]

also Japanese Kamikaze did it for honor and because of sense of duty - not because of religion

emperor worship.

[khukuri]

Fixed it for you.

That may not be true either. I don't know the Iraq statistics for IEDs, VBIEDs etc. I hazard a guess you don't either. What is clear that whether suicidal or not the civilians a feeling the main brunt by the sheer numbers of casualties at the hands of these bombers-murderers.

more or less, I was just proving the point that there is no data for saying that most islamic suicide bombers go for civilians, And I understand Exers point aswell.

[chardson67]

The Japanese Samurai's had the Japanese Code of Conduct called - The Bushido.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bushido

Bushido expanded and formalized the earlier code of the samurai, and stressed frugality, loyalty, mastery of martial arts, and honor to the death. Under the Bushido ideal, if a samurai failed to uphold his honor he could regain it by performing seppuku (ritual suicide).

In an excerpt from his book Samurai: The World of the Warrior,[3] historian Stephen Turnbull describes the role of Seppuku in feudal Japan:

Seppuku is a more correct expression for an act of suicide performed by the process of cutting open the abdomen. Seppuku is better known in the West as hara kiri (belly-cutting), and is a concept so alien to the European tradition that it is one of the few words from the world of the samurai to have entered foreign languages without a need for translation. Seppuku was commonly performed using a dagger. It could take place with preparation and ritual in the privacy of one’s home, or speedily in a quiet corner of a battlefield while one’s comrades kept the enemy at bay. In the world of the warrior, seppuku was a deed of bravery that was admirable in a samurai who knew he was defeated, disgraced, or mortally wounded. It meant that he could end his days with his transgressions wiped away and with his reputation not merely intact but actually enhanced. The cutting of the abdomen released the samurai’s spirit in the most dramatic fashion, but it was an extremely painful and unpleasant way to die, and sometimes the samurai who was performing the act asked a loyal comrade to cut off his head at the moment of agony.

Bushido was widely practiced and it is surprising how uniform the samurai code remained over time, crossing over all geographic and socio-economic backgrounds of the samurai. The samurai represented a wide populace numbering between 7 to 10% of the Japanese population, and the first Meiji era census at the end of the 19th century counted 1,282,000 members of the "high samurais", allowed to ride a horse, and 492,000 members of the "low samurai", allowed to wear two swords but not to ride a horse, in a country of about 25 million.[4]

However, Seppuku is not the sole emphasis of the Bushido philosophy. Other points are made to include methods of raising children, appearance and grooming, and most of all, constant preparation for death. One might say that death is at the very center of Bushido as the overall purpose- to die a good death and with one's honor intact.

[Seiyuuki]

That explanation failed to impress that the romanticized explanation of Bushido meant very little during period such as the Sengoku Jidai. Samurai then were much more pragmatic and did what was necessary to win the battle. The secondary for seppuku were also there to do the deed, insuring the one committing seppuku does not chicken out at the last minute and attempt to plea and save his life, etc. which does happen more than people realize. The pretty picture of a samurai duty and role were created to keep the samurai subserviant and obediance during the peace after unification by Tokugawa shogunate.

[Freedom-Fries]

From what I understand it was the Sri Lankan Tamil Tigers and religious fervour of radical Islam that inspired these murder cult suicide bombers.

They have seen spectacular suicide attacks by the Tamil Tigers and with their warped misinterpetation of Islam they adopted suicide attacks as they think they are more "worthy" as follwers of Islam by dying for their God than the heathen Tamil Buddhists.

the way of the radical ninja

http://www.islamicjewellery.co.uk/images/nikab.gif