Archive Thread 13- New Weapons for the German Armed Forces

[Macs.]

New Weapons for the German Armed Forces

By Sören Sünkler

The German Army Infantry and protective forces of the Air Force and Navy will be equipped with the MP7 Submachine Gun and MG4 Light Machine Gun. The MG4, also in use with other countries, will replace the MG3 as a squad machine gun.

http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l314/Macs3000/MP7a1.jpg
Infantry forces with the new MP7A1 Submachine Gun: “penetration of an assault rifle”.


Until the new millennium, the Federal German Armed Forces Small Arms concept was largely based on 1960s design and technology, and in some cases pre-60s. A slow change has been going on here since the introduction of the Infanterist der Zukunft (IdZ) “Infantryman of the Future” system and of the corresponding MP7A1 Submachine Gun (2002) and MG4 Machine Gun (2005). It is true that the design and technology of the MG3 and MP2 “UZI” weapons were successful. However, they have been replaced due to their old age.

The MP7A1 Submachine Gun by Heckler & Koch is a close range defensive weapon (Personal Defence Weapon (PDW)) and has the new high penetration calibre 4.6mm x 30 ammunition. It is true that it displaces the ‘UZI’ and the P8 (9mm x 19) self-loading pistol, which has only recently been adopted, but not considered to be in a position to fully replace them. Its real predecessor is the MP5K PDW with folding butt stock; this was only adopted by the Special Forces and the Military Police of the Federal German Armed Forces and was seen as a stop gap pending adoption of an actual PDW. Original planning called for the MP7 to equip rear echelon personnel, truck drivers, pilots and the crews of heavy weapons. According to planning these personnel were not to burden themselves with an assault rifle but yet be capable of defending themselves effectively.

The new weapon is seen as a ‘three–in–one’ solution. It can be carried in a concealed way like a pistol, has the external appearance and capability of a submachine gun and its penetration is almost that of an assault rifle.

The forward handgrip and butt stock can both be deployed quickly and easily. A multitude of optical reflex sights can be assembled onto the upper picatinny rail. A lateral picatinny rail enables the fitment of tactical accessories including a laser light module.

This enables active target illumination by both day and night. The weapon becomes suitable for night fighting by the use of the ‘Lucie’ night vision goggles or by fitting a passive night sight on the upper picatinny rail. In addition there is a quick fit/release silencer. The new PDW is suitable for both right and left handed firers. There are ambidextrous safety and fire selector levers and the weapon is cocked and loaded via a cocking lever located at the top rear of the receiver. The Federal German Armed Forces, however, decided against a three-round burst trigger system. Magazines of 20 or 40 rounds may be inserted into the grip in a compact way. In particular the ammunition is a feature of the weapon. The new high velocity calibre shows performances four times the NATO requirements. At a range of 200 metres, it will penetrate a target made up of a 1.6mm titanium plate and 20 layers of Kevlar, an imitation of a Russian bullet proof vest, and any other sort of conventional protective clothing.

Contrary to the old 9mm x 19 cartridge, double or over penetration is avoided as almost all of the energy is transferred into the target hit first. What this means: the protective vest of an attacker is penetrated with great certainty but the danger of secondary penetration of an uninvolved bystander behind the attacker is minimised.

Contrary to that, the UZI penetrated none of the modern vests, but in return could penetrate two soft skinned targets without any problems.

On the basis of the compact design and the use of glass fibre reinforced polyamides with steel inserts, the MP7 weighs less than 2 kilograms. As a gas operated weapon with a rotating bolt head, it is conveniently fired even using one hand only. Its recoil is only half that of a conventional 9mm cartridge. This combination predestines the MP7 as a weapon
for close range defence, such as VIP protection or in confined spaces. However, so far it has only been fielded with the Federal German Armed Forces Army and Navy Special Forces. The Military Police use it to equip their VIP Protection Squads (Close Protection Teams (CPT)) in Afghanistan, Bosnia and the Kosovo. Also the KSK are carrying them.

The MP7 has not yet arrived with its intended original end users: the rear echelon personnel, drivers, pilots and heavy weapon crews. Instead high ranking Federal German Armed Forces personnel have talked about a P46 Self defence pistol (4.6mm) for general use. It therefore appears as if the MP7 was to be reserved for an exclusive circle of users within the troops. Meanwhile, it has been adopted by 17 states among others by the British Ministry of Defence Police and Italian Special Forces.

No less interesting was the procurement history around the new 5.56 mm x 45 calibre MG4 Machine Gun. With the adoption of this calibre weapon, the Federal German Armed Forces follow the example of the G36 standard issue assault rifle. The same ammunition for the main weapon of an infantry squad turns out to be extremely advantageous in view of supplies, weight and operational possibilities. The main reason for this weapon being adopted is, above all, the fact that is has more firepower and reduced weight with the consequence that an infantry squad can today be equipped with two machine guns
instead of one. The old and heavier MG3 (7.62mm x 51) is to remain a mounted weapon on escort and transport vehicles up to final withdrawal. Only the new ‘Puma’ Mechanised Infantry Combat Vehicle is to be equipped with an MG4 as a standard weapon.

http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l314/Macs3000/MG4.jpg
MG4 with passive night sight. Machine Gunner of an infantry squad: “consistently positive experience”

Manufacturers Heckler & Koch from the Swabian Oberndorf first presented the MG4 on a technical fair at London in 2001. Before that, US troops and armed forces of other allied nations had reported a mainly positive experience with light machine guns. Unlike other comparable machine guns, due to its design the MG4 is not as ****e to jams due to fluctuations in the ammunition or heavy fouling and is consequently more reliable than the MG3. In addition, it is safer, more compact and easier to operate than other light machine guns in the Federal German Armed Forces (LMG36 and G8). As a system firing from an open bolt, on cessation of fire the bolt remains in the open position and allows cooling air to circulate. This precludes an accidental cook-off of a cartridge.

For transport and on the move, the cocking lever and butt stock can be folded up. A carrying handle/barrel grip allows fast and trouble free barrel change. An internal automatic safety prevents accidental discharges during cocking or a ‘runaway gun’. A loaded chamber indicator in the feed cover provides both visual and mechanical indication of the loaded state of the weapon. In order to prevent confusion, a modified feed shaft for training purposes only allows dummy rounds to be loaded and not ‘live ammunition’ belts. The upper assembly rails allow passive night sights, a thermal imagery sight or a laser light module to be fitted. In addition to the mechanical aperture sight a three power optical sight in a carrying handle may be used. According to Federal German Armed Forces information, only 20 MG4 had been supplied to the troops by early 2006. They are reported to mainly be in use with the protection companies in Afghanistan.

Facts & Figures

MP7 and MG4 procurement figures are coupled to the Infantryman of the Future (IdZ) armament project. With 217 IdZ basic systems, 434 MP7 have been procured so far. It is planned to equip another 870 enhanced IdZ systems with the submachine gun by the end of 2007. The same applies to the MG4. Consequently, only the infantry and, to a limited extent, mechanised infantry and Air Force and Navy protection force users of the IdZ system will also get this weapon. Full armament of the land forces with the MP7 and MG4 will presumably be decided on by the new Army armament concept. With regard to the costs of those new weapons, both the Federal German Armed Forces and the manufacturers Heckler & Koch remain silent.


Heckler-Koch.de

Published by: loyal, Magazin für Sicherheitspolitik. Issue: October 2006)

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[lightfire]

Is there a difference between MG 4 and MG 43? I believe we are buying a good bunch of that last one..

[Indirect Fire]

The gun seems to be based on the M4.

[Macs.]

Is there a difference between MG 4 and MG 43? I believe we are buying a good bunch of that last one..

Of course there is, those are two complete different guns.

Maybe you are confusing it with the MG3, the MG3 is basically a updated version of the MG43.


The gun seems to be based on the M4.

What gun ? :roll:

[Indirect Fire]

Of course there is, those are two complete different guns.

Maybe you are confusing it with the MG3, the MG3 is basically a updated version of the MG43.



What gun ? :roll:

The MP7A1. At 500 yards, armed with binocs, I would think of it being an M4 armed with an Acon Reflex because they do look similar in thr 1st photo.

[scrybe]

The gun seems to be based on the M4.

Do yourself a favor and stop posting.

[Seraphim]

The MP7A1. At 500 yards, armed with binocs, I would think of it being an M4 armed with an Acon Reflex because they do look similar in thr 1st photo.

:cantbeli:

[lightfire]

Of course there is, those are two complete different guns.

Maybe you are confusing it with the MG3, the MG3 is basically a updated version of the MG43.



No, I am not confusing. Perhaps you are?
I said MG 43, not MG 42(that one I could confuze with MG3, though I have touched MG42 and shot from MG3).

MG43 5.56mm:

http://www.world.guns.ru/machine/hk43.jpg

[asch]

The gun seems to be based on the M4.

What gun ? :roll:

The MP7A1.
educate yourself before posting.
http://hkpro.com/pdw.htm
http://world.guns.ru/smg/smg49-e.htm

[Macs.]

No, I am not confusing. Perhaps you are?
I said MG 43, not MG 42(that one I could confuze with MG3, though I have touched MG42 and shot from MG3).

MG43 5.56mm:

http://www.world.guns.ru/machine/hk43.jpg

Dong, my fault.

MG43 is what HK calls it, MG4 is just the name used by our army.

[lightfire]

so it's the same weapon :) I am glad it will replace MG3 at some extent in our both armies :)

[jonosk]

Are soldiers getting weaker, always lighter weapons like 5.56 LMG and not 7.62 MMG.

Do more push ups or some thing ;)

[velvet-cream]

Are soldiers getting weaker, always lighter weapons like 5.56 LMG and not 7.62 MMG.

Do more push ups or some thing ;)

A lot of people make comments about the loss of the 7.62 GPMG at section/squad level.

But understand with the reduction of heavier firepower (of 7.62), you have a more flexible section that has 2 lsw/saw at the same time, that don't require assistant gunners. And they are significantly lighter, which make them faster and (relatively) more suited to built up environments.

Yes, there are disadvantages to 5.56 as you can't simply shoot through walls like you can with 7.62. Shifting to 5.56 also changes the doctrine of how the squad / section fights, and I think germany is playing catchup to the rest of the western world.

And as the article mentions, they are still retaining mg3s in vehicles. And unless they are in the light infantry role up in the mountains, I'll asssume that in the majority of operations, they will have vehicles nearby to support them when 7.62mm is required.

On the other hand, the MP7 - For SF as a backup weapon, VIP escort, MPs, and pilots, I can see the utility. But for general rear echelon, drivers, armoured vehicle crewman etc, I still think they should have a proper assault rifle / carbine. IMO, there is simply not enough firepower, considering these days most armies have troops equipped with body armour, and even 5.56/7.62 has trouble penetrating those.
If I was a driver, as a morale thing, I would much rather carry a carbine than an mp7. Besides, if the g36, g36k is already in service, why bother wasting money replacing it?

However, I do see the advantage of the MP7 that allows you to easily point and shoot from within the confines of a vehicle. In an ambush as a driver, you should be driving, and the guy on the gun ring on top should be the one shooting back!

[velvet-cream]

I also find the downward ejection a little odd. I know other MGs, (like FN MAG) have downward ejection, but I thought HK would have adopted the concept of the Minimi/m249 and used a downwards/sideways ejection pattern. The only reason I mention it is the magazine/pouch looks awkward, as it is mounted on an angle. Would mounting 200 rounds of link on the side torque the weapon slightly to the left?

I'm not sure whether this would affect any handling characteristics or firing patterns. Any thoughts?

[ReggayMC]

http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l314/Macs3000/72551710.jpg

You do not want to be a smart ass to this guy haha

[GoSka37]

The MP7A1. At 500 yards, armed with binocs, I would think of it being an M4 armed with an Acon Reflex because they do look similar in thr 1st photo.

http://hkpro.com/mp7pdw.jpg
MP7

Vs.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/19/M4w-att.jpg
M4



... Yeah.. I can totally see the similarities! :roll:

[ReggayMC]

hey man they both fire like bullets or something!p-)

[AirCommando]

[QUOTE=velvet-cream;2330560]If I was a driver, as a morale thing, I would much rather carry a carbine than an mp7. Besides, if the g36, g36k is already in service, why bother wasting money replacing it?[QUOTE]
The MP7 dont replace the g36k or g36. Most of this rear echelon guys are running around with the P8 handgun and the old UZIs. Some of them carry the G36 but at all, the MP7 was designed for this people, but now all the "Special Purpose" warriors hang around with this cool weapon. Anyway, the 4,6 mm amo is the tip of the spear, not the apearance of the gun. However, very good article.

[maple.leaf]

The MP7A1. At 500 yards, armed with binocs, I would think of it being an M4 armed with an Acon Reflex because they do look similar in thr 1st photo.

Only if you are blind in one eye and can't see out of the other. rofl

[amazing kg3]

Well the flip up sights are the same design, also it has an ambidextrious cocking handle like on the m4, the pull back layout. the similarites stop there. there something to see in person.

[Seraphim]

Well the flip up sights are the same design, also it has an ambidextrious cocking handle like on the m4, the pull back layout. the similarites stop there. there something to see in person.

Do you know what ambidextrous means?

[amazing kg3]

yes both hands. what did i say wrong?

oh sorry, our Diameco series are ambidextrious, are m4s not?

[-[Crosshair]-]

You still have to pull the rod on the LEFT side inside of the charging handle on AR-15s.

[Bobbo_]

So the diemaco's has the same design on the charging handle as every other AR-15 right? Only the selector is ambidextrous...

[velvet-cream]

-;2332281']You still have to pull the rod on the LEFT side inside of the charging handle on AR-15s.


I think amazing kg3 meant the motion is still the same (as in mirrored), regardless of whether you are a right or left handed shooter. Unlike, say an mp5 or a steyr, where the motion is different because the cocking handle is on the other side of the weapon.

[amazing kg3]

I think amazing kg3 meant the motion is still the same (as in mirrored), regardless of whether you are a right or left handed shooter. Unlike, say an mp5 or a steyr, where the motion is different because the cocking handle is on the other side of the weapon.

yes thank you. you still need to grab at the left, but you can do it with either hand. I appreciate you mediating that.

[Bobbo_]

Oh. Yeah then I get it.

[JDZ]

On the other hand, the MP7 - For SF as a backup weapon, VIP escort, MPs, and pilots, I can see the utility. But for general rear echelon, drivers, armoured vehicle crewman etc, I still think they should have a proper assault rifle / carbine. IMO, there is simply not enough firepower, considering these days most armies have troops equipped with body armour, and even 5.56/7.62 has trouble penetrating those.
If I was a driver, as a morale thing, I would much rather carry a carbine than an mp7. Besides, if the g36, g36k is already in service, why bother wasting money replacing it?

However, I do see the advantage of the MP7 that allows you to easily point and shoot from within the confines of a vehicle. In an ambush as a driver, you should be driving, and the guy on the gun ring on top should be the one shooting back!

It was one aim of the development that the MP7 could be used one handed, especially in vehicles. Support guys in the German Army often travel in lightly armoured vehicles (e.g. Wolf). In case of an ambush the Mp7 allows more movement inside the vehicle. So try to stick out a g36! I can tell you that this is not so easy!
Another use for the MP7 is in situations where soldiers do not want to look threatening. Because of its size and uncommon look a soldier carrying a MP7 doesn’t look as dangerous as a soldier with a G36.:) The German Army is mostly doing peacekeeping missions and already uses the MP7 for that purpose.

The G36k is not in service with regular units. It is only used by some Units as boarding teams or “Fallschirmspezialzügen”.

[exarmyguard]

Do yourself a favor and stop posting.

rofl ...........

[nickless]

The G36k is not in service with regular units. It is only used by some Units as boarding teams or “Fallschirmspezialzügen”.#

That's not quite true. The infantry batallions all have a number of K's that are usually used by their snipers or the pathfinder platoon in case of the airborne troops. The Feldjäger (military police) also have quite a few G36K.

[ShadowSpear]

hey man they both fire like bullets or something!p-)

They're hardly the same bullet.

The Colt M4A1 Carbine fires a 5.56x45mm Full Metal Jacket NATO Round.
The Heckler und Koch MP7A1 fires a specially made 4.6x30mm Armor Piercing Round.

The 4.6 has a muzzle velocity higher than that of the 5.56. And it's made of hardened steel that can pierce Kevlar. Once it pierces the Kevlar, it's designed to tumble inside the flesh, creating a bigger entry/exit hole.

Since it's a fairly recently and specially designed bullet, only three guns in the world are chambered for it. The HK MP7/MP7A1, The HK UCP, and the Steyr TMP.

They hardly fire the same round.

[JDZ]

#

That's not quite true. The infantry batallions all have a number of K's that are usually used by their snipers or the pathfinder platoon in case of the airborne troops. The Feldjäger (military police) also have quite a few G36K.

That's what I wanted to say.:) I intended to show that the MP7 is not replacing the G36k which is not issued in large numbers throughout the Bundeswehr. I think there was a misunderstanding before that the G36k had a role like the M4 in US Armed Forces.

[nickless]

They're hardly the same bullet.
That much is true. ;)


The 4.6 has a muzzle velocity higher than that of the 5.56.
That's plain wrong: The MP7 reaches a muzzle velocity of about 725 mps/2400 fps, a 5.56mm rifle reaches more than 900 mps/3000 fps.


Since it's a fairly recently and specially designed bullet, only three guns in the world are chambered for it. The HK MP7/MP7A1, The HK UCP, and the Steyr TMP.
The UCP project seems to have been canceled. Also, Steyr does not produce the TMP any more, it is now offered by Brugger&Thomet as the "MP9" - in 9mm only.

[ShadowSpear]

[quote=nickless;2346903]That much is true. ;)


That's plain wrong: The MP7 reaches a muzzle velocity of about 725 mps/2400 fps, a 5.56mm rifle reaches more than 900 mps/3000 fps.

W.E. So I got one fact wrong...my mistake.

The MP7A1 is still better in terms of CQB, Armor-Penetration, and Rate of Fire.

The MP7A1 has a fire rate of 950-1150 rpm depending on the ammo type.
The M16A4 has a fire rate of 750-900 rpm depending on the ammo type.

The M16 has a higher muzzle velocity, has been in service a lot longer, is better for medium-lon range fighting, and is good for adaptibility. Those are the only fields where the M16 outranks the MP7A1 and in today's battles most soldiers want a weapon that's small, effective, reliable, and powerful.

[qwerty2]

Did anyone notice that the G36 like carry handle/scope system mounted on the MG 4 in the close up picture is rail mounted?

[Macs.]

Did anyone notice that the G36 like carry handle/scope system mounted on the MG 4 in the close up picture is rail mounted?

Thats not the G36 carry handle/scope system.

[Hydro]

it is now offered by Brugger&Thomet as the "MP9" - in 9mm only.



B&T have chambered prototypes in 4.6mm.

[qwerty2]

Which happens to be why I said the "G36 like" carry handle.

[maple.leaf]

Dong, my fault.

MG43 is what HK calls it, MG4 is just the name used by our army.

there are some clear differences between the guns shown in these pictures though.

The MG4 looks very nice!

[nickless]

W.E. So I got one fact wrong...my mistake.

Well... two. ;)


The MP7A1 is still better in terms of CQB, Armor-Penetration, and Rate of Fire.

The MP7A1 has a fire rate of 950-1150 rpm depending on the ammo type.
The M16A4 has a fire rate of 750-900 rpm depending on the ammo type.

The M16 has a higher muzzle velocity, has been in service a lot longer, is better for medium-lon range fighting, and is good for adaptibility. Those are the only fields where the M16 outranks the MP7A1 and in today's battles most soldiers want a weapon that's small, effective, reliable, and powerful.

Stop quoting the ad brochures!

The MP7 was designed to be a personal defense weapon, not an assault rifle. If you compare the MP7 to an assault rifle, just look at this: The M7 has a muzzle energy of 420 Joules, a 5.56mm assault rifle has 1800 - more than four times the energy! And people are still complaining about 5.56mm ammo being too weak... go figure.

Also, the MP7 does not penetrate armor better than a 5.56mm assault rifle: The PDWs responding to the NATO requst back in 1989 had to able to defeat the CRISAT armor target, but any assault rifle can do that easily. They are just superiour to pistols and submachine guns - using classic military ball ammunition - in terms armor penetration.

[-[Crosshair]-]

So the diemaco's has the same design on the charging handle as every other AR-15 right? Only the selector is ambidextrous...

C7A1s have no ambidextrous parts, the C7A2 does, and has a rod on the charging-handle that goes all the way to the right side. You can push it and it will act as a lever and pull the unlocking mechanism on the left side. The ambidextrous magazine release on the C7A2 works the same way, as a lever.

[WKD]

Well... two. ;)


Also, the MP7 does not penetrate armor better than a 5.56mm assault rifle: The PDWs responding to the NATO requst back in 1989 had to able to defeat the CRISAT armor target, but any assault rifle can do that easily. They are just superiour to pistols in submachine guns - using classic military ball ammunition - in terms armor penetration.

That seems to be the issue whenever I read threads about these weapons; the PDW calibres are designed to penetrate armour better than PISTOLS (specifically the 9 x 19mm NATO ball ammunition, or whatever it is), not rifles. Comparing them to rifles therefore seems kinda dumb, but hey, I don't know **** so what are you gonna do.

[Roanoke]

They're hardly the same bullet.

He never said they were the same bullet. He said they both fired a bullet.

Geez. You fail at being funny.

Why does everyone on here feel like they need to flex their knowledge, and half of the people who do "flex" don't have any real knowledge to show off. Just lots of flabby fat.

[ShadowSpear]

hey man they both fire like bullets or something!p-)

Dude, learn to read.
He said they, "fire like bullets" as in they are common or same. They really aren't the same and they're hardley like one another.

[MrGoodKat]

Dude, learn to read.
He said they, "fire like bullets" as in they are common or same. They really aren't the same and they're hardley like one another.


:cantbeli: Ok, let's all get this straight...

When he said "like" he did NOT mean common or the same. He was using it as it is commonly used in slang, just as filler. For example:

I mean, like, it just seemed so, like, obvious to me but like, maybe that was just like me or something.

To the original poster:
That was actually really funny!

[amazing kg3]

For gods sake im in this thread to learn about the MP7, not literary interperatation! He didnt mean the same round, i doubt hes that stupid.

[udt87]

Well... two. ;)



Stop quoting the ad brochures!

The MP7 was designed to be a personal defense weapon, not an assault rifle. If you compare the MP7 to an assault rifle, just look at this: The M7 has a muzzle energy of 420 Joules, a 5.56mm assault rifle has 1800 - more than four times the energy! And people are still complaining about 5.56mm ammo being too weak... go figure.

Also, the MP7 does not penetrate armor better than a 5.56mm assault rifle: The PDWs responding to the NATO requst back in 1989 had to able to defeat the CRISAT armor target, but any assault rifle can do that easily. They are just superiour to pistols and submachine guns - using classic military ball ammunition - in terms armor penetration.

I personally think that a fair playing field would be trying to compair an MP7 to a P90... at least they are in the same class (PDW). I don't think compairing 5.56 to a MP7 is a good idea. Switch to the P90... it shoots a caliber similar to the 5.56 but for a PDW (5.7mm).

[udt87]

Then we wouldn't be compairing assult rifles to personal defense weapons.

[JoaMei]

FN P90 and MP7 can only be compared because their Ammo is roughly the same.

The P90 is an Armour piercing Submachine gun, they call it a PDW only after the MP7 came out.
But the P90 is a tactical Submachine gun, and is carried like one.

The MP7 is a true PDW which can be carried like a Pistol on the Hip. It is meant as a Pistol replacement with more accuracy, Firepower and armour piercing ability. The P90 is rather bulky and can not be carried like a Pistol, and it was never meant to.

They are completely different concepts, both are good for what they are meant, but to compare them is wrong.

[amazing kg3]

Dude, the P90 was refered to PDW before the MP7A1 was even thought of. The P90 was concieved in the 80's, as well as the SS190 5.7 Ball round.

And there not completely different concepts, there both designed to do the same thing, just one does it differently than the other.

[JoaMei]

Nope, the P90 is much older but was not marketed as a PDW. This whole PDW hype started with the MP7.

[velvet-cream]

Nope, the P90 is much older but was not marketed as a PDW. This whole PDW hype started with the MP7.

I'm pretty sure the P90 was referred to as a PDW before the the MP7 came onto the scene. (though I'm not sure if FN marketed it specifically as a PDW)

This article was published in Nov 1998, and refers to the P90 as a PDW. I believe that date was before the prototype of the MP7 was shown to the public by HK.

http://www.remtek.com/arms/fn/p90/data/concept.htm

[maple.leaf]

I'm pretty sure the P90 was referred to as a PDW before the the MP7 came onto the scene. (though I'm not sure if FN marketed it specifically as a PDW)

This article was published in Nov 1998, and refers to the P90 as a PDW. I believe that date was before the prototype of the MP7 was shown to the public by HK.

http://www.remtek.com/arms/fn/p90/data/concept.htm

You are right. Have a cookie. ;-)

Now - let's get back to serious discussion....

[amazing kg3]

Ive got a weapons encyclopedia that came out in 91 ir something, and it calls it a PDW.

[Chops]

[quote=nickless;2346903]That much is true. ;)


That's plain wrong: The MP7 reaches a muzzle velocity of about 725 mps/2400 fps, a 5.56mm rifle reaches more than 900 mps/3000 fps.

W.E. So I got one fact wrong...my mistake.

The MP7A1 is still better in terms of CQB, Armor-Penetration, and Rate of Fire.

The MP7A1 has a fire rate of 950-1150 rpm depending on the ammo type.
The M16A4 has a fire rate of 750-900 rpm depending on the ammo type.

The M16 has a higher muzzle velocity, has been in service a lot longer, is better for medium-lon range fighting, and is good for adaptibility. Those are the only fields where the M16 outranks the MP7A1 and in today's battles most soldiers want a weapon that's small, effective, reliable, and powerful.

One of the most idiotic posts I've ever seen. And I've seen thousands. Well done- back to your video games son.

[Macs.]

Does anyone know why the Navy went for the Aimpoint Comp M2 ?

EOtechs and the Hensoldt sights are already wide-spread through the army and navy - What were the reasons they went for the Aimpoint ?

[nickless]

My guess would be better water-resistance: The Aimpoint M2 ist 25m submersible vs. 10m for the EOTech family.

Do you happen to have any recent pictures of the Aimpoint in the hands of a Kampfschwimmer?

[Macs.]

No, but allegedy they already had a PR-Picture at the "Boot" fair with a KS with the Comp M2.

Most recently they seemed to just use the standard G36 scope with rail ontop, but nothing attached.

[velvet-cream]

[quote=nickless;2346903]That much is true. ;)

The MP7A1 is still better in terms of CQB, Armor-Penetration, and Rate of Fire.

The MP7A1 has a fire rate of 950-1150 rpm depending on the ammo type.
The M16A4 has a fire rate of 750-900 rpm depending on the ammo type.

The M16 has a higher muzzle velocity, has been in service a lot longer, is better for medium-lon range fighting, and is good for adaptibility. Those are the only fields where the M16 outranks the MP7A1 and in today's battles most soldiers want a weapon that's small, effective, reliable, and powerful.

Do us a favour and read a brochure on the SS109. One thing your video games don't tell you is that it has a steel penetrator inside, and will outperform the 4.6mm "AP" rounds any day.

And in terms of the ROF.... a 10% increase in cyclic ROF doesn't mean sh|t.

[ShadowSpear]

Yo, calm down.
Take a chill pill.
It's not like I'm reading the brochures or info off the website as I type this.

The SS109 is just a 5.56x45 AP Steel Core Round.
I used to have an MP7 until I sold it, now I have an SL-8 and a USP .45 CAL.

[Macs.]

So... Where did you buy your MP7A1 ?

[Ironsight06]

Yo, calm down.
Take a chill pill.
It's not like I'm reading the brochures or info off the website as I type this.

The SS109 is just a 5.56x45 AP Steel Core Round.
I used to have an MP7 until I sold it, now I have an SL-8 and a USP .45 CAL.
DOTW?

....................

[ShadowSpear]

DOTW???
Anyway, I got my MP7A1 from a freind as a birthday gift. He ordered it from the HK website.

I might be getting a Barrett or a CheyTac soon.

[Ironsight06]

DOTW???
Anyway, I got my MP7A1 from a freind as a birthday gift. I'll ask him where he got it.

I might be getting a Barrett soon.
Wow you are one lucky mother****er....

[ed316]

DOTW???
Anyway, I got my MP7A1 from a freind as a birthday gift. He ordered it from the HK website.

I might be getting a Barrett or a CheyTac soon.

*coughbullshatcough*

[Niels]

DOTW???
Anyway, I got my MP7A1 from a freind as a birthday gift. He ordered it from the HK website.

I might be getting a Barrett or a CheyTac soon.
But of course you did.

:roll:

[Ironsight06]

But of course you did.

:roll:
Sure, in airsoft maybe...

[Freibier]

DOTW???
Anyway, I got my MP7A1 from a freind as a birthday gift. He ordered it from the HK website.

I might be getting a Barrett or a CheyTac soon.
You suck at ze lying! 'tard

[amazing kg3]

5.56 X 45!? The SS190 is 5.7 X 28! You got mixed up!

And there is no way in hell you personally own a MP7A1, id seriously like to see your papers for that.

[muttbutt]

LOL, you got an MP7 from H&K, the company that doesn't even like selling assault rifles to the publicrofl

[muttbutt]

You suck at ze lying! 'tard
you know your in trouble when the Germans are zinging you.p-)

[Freibier]

you know your in trouble when the Germans are zinging you.p-)
HÄNDE HOCH! SCHNELL, SCHNELL!!!!

[amazing kg3]

http://www.hkwebshop.com/core.php?dat=Y29tcG9uZW50PW5hdmlnYXRpb24mYWN0aW9uPXNob3cmeElEPWZyYW1lQ29udGVudCZjSUQ9MTAwNjAmY291bnRyeUlEPTEmbGFuZ0lEPTUmY3VycmVuY3lJRD05NzE=

you cant buy firearms from HK, at least not there website. and your friend mist be loaded cuz they aint cheap.

JAGERMEISTER!

[LaoSexMachine]

DOTW???
Anyway, I got my MP7A1 from a freind as a birthday gift. He ordered it from the HK website.

I might be getting a Barrett or a CheyTac soon.

Muhahhahahahahahaah. Best stick to airsoft, son.

[Macs.]

Occupation:
Sniper

ShadowSpear, I didn't know they sold Softair weapons on the HK website. Must be a real good business, Mr. Sniper.

[muttbutt]

ShadowSpear, I didn't know they sold Softair weapons on the HK website. Must be a real good business, Mr. Sniper.
of course he's is and the MP7 is for when he has to go do his sphincter cellp-) missions for the NSA while secretly working for the CIA trying to get intell on the FBI before retaking an embassy for the SAS...ect ect;)


I've said too much

[D-gin]

DOTW???
Anyway, I got my MP7A1 from a freind as a birthday gift. He ordered it from the HK website.

I might be getting a Barrett or a CheyTac soon.

That's one hell of a good friend.

If your interested I have a friend that is selling some really nice beach front property in Arizona for dirt cheap, Might be a really nice place to have some fun with a Barrett.

[GoSka37]

http://www.hkwebshop.com/core.php?dat=Y29tcG9uZW50PXNob3AmYWN0aW9uPXNob3cmeElEPWJ5SXRlbUlEJml0ZW1JRD0xOSZjSUQ9MTAwNDcmc2hvd0JhY2s9dHJ1ZQ==

This must be what his friend bought him.

[asch]

missions for the NSA while secretly working for the CIA trying to get intell on the FBI before retaking an embassy for the SAS...ect ect;-)
rofl .

[ShadowSpear]

I just talked to my freind about it. He said that he knew one of the guys from HK and bought it from him online then had it shipped to my address. Misinterpretation and bad memory on my part.

And the MP7A1 isn't an Assault Rifle. It's a Machine Pistol/Sub-Machine Gun. Hence the designation MP.

Airsoft sucks. Paintball is better. I play paintball occasionally with my brother, who was in the Corps.

I'm trying to get a Barrett M99-C or a CheyTac M200 Civilian.
I'm steering more towards the CheyTac.

[Freibier]

I just talked to my freind about it. He said that he knew one of the guys from HK and bought it from him online then had it shipped to my address.

Airsoft sucks. Paintball is better. I play paintball occasionally with my brother, who was in the Corps.

I'm trying to get a Barrett M99-C or a CheyTac M200 Civilian.
I'm steering more towards the CheyTac.
This thread is about firearms, stop bothering us with your kindergarten toy stories and don't forget to visit the airsoft section on your way out, k?

[Hydro]

So, who do you snipe for, Tom Berenger?

[velvet-cream]

I just talked to my freind about it. He said that he knew one of the guys from HK and bought it from him online then had it shipped to my address. Misinterpretation and bad memory on my part.

And the MP7A1 isn't an Assault Rifle. It's a Machine Pistol/Sub-Machine Gun. Hence the designation MP.


And the government wherever you live is more than happy for your "friend" to buy a machine pistol online, and have it delivered by post to your address, no questions asked.....

[amazing kg3]

Im pretty sure HK themselves wouldnt do this for you.

[JDZ]

Don’t laugh about him! Because
1. he is sniper.
2. he is going to buy a sniper rifle.
3. he has a very special friend.
4. his brother was in corps .
and 5. he only plays paintball occasionally!
So better watch out! And don’t ask who he’s sniping for. That’s OPSEC!

[Hydro]

My friend bought me a phased plasma rifle in the 40 Watt range.

[Niels]

I just talked to my freind about it. He said that he knew one of the guys from HK and bought it from him online then had it shipped to my address. Misinterpretation and bad memory on my part.

And the MP7A1 isn't an Assault Rifle. It's a Machine Pistol/Sub-Machine Gun. Hence the designation MP.

Airsoft sucks. Paintball is better. I play paintball occasionally with my brother, who was in the Corps.

I'm trying to get a Barrett M99-C or a CheyTac M200 Civilian.
I'm steering more towards the CheyTac.
That is interesting. I know a guy who has a friend whose father works with a bloke who has contacts with the CIA, and he sent me a brain controlling device because I felt a little ill that week. It's pretty cool, but I sold it on eBay because I got bored of it.

Anyway, Clinton just called to ask me if I wanted to go fishing on Mars together with the Majestic 12. I said "sure Bill, old chap" - I'm not doing anything special today anyway.

[Ironsight06]

I just talked to my freind about it. He said that he knew one of the guys from HK and bought it from him online then had it shipped to my address. Misinterpretation and bad memory on my part.

And the MP7A1 isn't an Assault Rifle. It's a Machine Pistol/Sub-Machine Gun. Hence the designation MP.

Airsoft sucks. Paintball is better. I play paintball occasionally with my brother, who was in the Corps.

I'm trying to get a Barrett M99-C or a CheyTac M200 Civilian.
I'm steering more towards the CheyTac.
http://img471.imageshack.us/img471/9129/yougonnagetrapedjz1yz9.jpg

[Macs.]

I just talked to my freind about it. He said that he knew one of the guys from HK and bought it from him online then had it shipped to my address. Misinterpretation and bad memory on my part.

And the MP7A1 isn't an Assault Rifle. It's a Machine Pistol/Sub-Machine Gun. Hence the designation MP.

Airsoft sucks. Paintball is better. I play paintball occasionally with my brother, who was in the Corps.

I'm trying to get a Barrett M99-C or a CheyTac M200 Civilian.
I'm steering more towards the CheyTac.

I am a two feet tall French Lumberjacker with blond hair and a red moustache formed like a Ford Mustang ('05). I am drinking a big bottle of wood while I am reading your post.

Now I am gonna fly to my dreamyacht and drive to Atlantis.

Good bye !

[Hydro]

I am a two feet tall French Lumberjacker with blond hair and a red moustache formed like a Ford Mustang ('05). I am drinking a big bottle of wood while I am reading your post.

Now I am gonna fly to my dreamyacht and drive to Atlantis.

Good bye !



Macs, you're supposed to make stuff up, that's normal in Fritzland.

[ShadowSpear]

Yeah...
You do that...
I'm gonna go throw my knives into something...

[Macs.]

ShadowSpear, stick your fantasy stories up your arse.

[D-gin]

Yeah...
You do that...
I'm gonna go throw my knives into something...
Aim for your computer.

[ShadowSpear]

http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=23696&stc=1&d=1173477665 How about I aim for Macs?
:-*$
JK

[Hydro]

You can use your MP7.

[Ironsight06]

http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=23696&stc=1&d=1173477665 How about I aim for Macs?
:-*$
JK
Yeah do it with your Barret, it will be great...

Anyone send this nomination to Ngati yet?

[cliffg]

ShadowSpear - Since you are up WAAY past your bedtime, a few truths I think you REALLY need to know:

1. No firearms manufacturer sells weapons from their website.

2. Knives, like scissors, are really, really sharp. Don' ever run with them or throw them. You could put someone's eye out.

3. Fully automatic weapons can not be bought on e-bay. Even for a birthday present. Even if he is your best friend.

4. *** is better when a live partner is involved. I'm telling you this since I think it'll be a loooong time before you find out. If ever.

5. SGT Rock wasn't real. Nether was Jack Ryan, Rambo, or that guy on 24. They are "fiction". So is your story.

On this site there are folks, real grown-ups, who know these things firsthand. So get a life, will 'ya?

[muttbutt]

Yeah...
You do that...
I'm gonna go throw my knives into something...
you've never heard "quit while your behind" before?

[ShadowSpear]

DUde, never said my MP7 was fully automatic-I had the fire Auto and Burst fire functions removed from the gun.

Dude, I can run with scissors or knives whenever I want...I've done it before, the worst that's happened was that I almost had a Ka-Bar go through my foot when I accidently dropped it.

[D-gin]

DUde, never said my MP7 was fully automatic-I had the fire Auto and Burst fire functions removed from the gun.

And where exactly did you get this done.;-)

[ShadowSpear]

My brother's freind owns a gunshop near where I used to live and he did the work for me for half the price.

[D-gin]

My brother's freind owns a gunshop near where I used to live and he did the work for me for half the price.

So what was full price.

[Aerosoul]

My brother's freind owns a gunshop near where I used to live and he did the work for me for half the price.
What's the gunshop called? How much was it?

[muttbutt]

DUde, never said my MP7 was fully automatic-I had the fire Auto and Burst fire functions removed from the gun.

Dude, I can run with scissors or knives whenever I want...I've done it before, the worst that's happened was that I almost had a Ka-Bar go through my foot when I accidently dropped it.
LOL,....keep going kid, your the most entertaining person I've seen for quite a while

[ShadowSpear]

You expect me to remember...It was like two years ago...around like $250-400...I think...

[Aerosoul]

So tell me, what is it you do for a living ShadowSpear.

[D-gin]

You expect me to remember...It was like two years ago...around like $250-400...I think...

I would expect you to remember.

250 or 400$ dollars is big difference so again I would expect you to remember.

[muttbutt]

So tell me, what is it you do for a living ShadowSpear.
dude, he's a sniper, cold stone killer from afarp-) OSOK:)

[ShadowSpear]

Why do you want to know???
I'll tell you this much, I live in New Jersey right now, just moved from Quantico like a few months ago. I have 4 Ka-Bars, 2 Machetes, an MP7, USP .45, TSG-1 Terminator Paintball Sniper Rifle and two Tippmann X-7s, and a Jeep Compass.

[muttbutt]

Why do you want to know???
I'll tell you this much, I live in New Jersey right now, just moved from Quantico like a few months ago. I have 4 Ka-Bars, 2 Machetes, an MP7, USP .45, and a Jeep Compass.
Oh God!...........rofl





I think I just trickled a little pee down my leg:oops:

[ShadowSpear]

I don't remember how much I paid for something, unless I get that something a lot.

[D-gin]

Why do you want to know???
I'll tell you this much, I live in New Jersey right now, just moved from Quantico like a few months ago. I have 4 Ka-Bars, 2 Machetes, an MP7, USP .45, and a Jeep Compass.

rofl


That is one of the funniest post I've read today.
Have a nice time while your here at MP.net, I doubt you'll be around long.

[ShadowSpear]

W.E, I have to go pick-up some Rifle Scopes and order some SureFire lights.

[Aerosoul]

W.E, I have to go pick-up some Rifle Scopes and order some SureFire lights.

http://img153.imageshack.us/img153/3363/rolmaopq8.gif

Every post from you makes you appear more and more retarded.
Have a nice evening.

[asch]

Why do you want to know???
I'll tell you this much, I live in New Jersey right now, just moved from Quantico like a few months ago. I have 4 Ka-Bars, 2 Machetes, an MP7, USP .45, TSG-1 Terminator Paintball Sniper Rifle and two Tippmann X-7s, and a Jeep Compass.
lost yer SL-8 somewhere?

The SS109 is just a 5.56x45 AP Steel Core Round.
I used to have an MP7 until I sold it, now I have an SL-8 and a USP .45 CAL.

tip of ze day for noobs: if you got fvcked on MPnet, just stop behave like total idiot. just stop.

[D-gin]

W.E, I have to go pick-up some Rifle Scopes and order some SureFire lights.

What kind of optics are you buying....:lol:

[Ngati Tumatauenga]

Why do you want to know???
I'll tell you this much, I live in New Jersey right now, just moved from Quantico like a few months ago. I have 4 Ka-Bars, 2 Machetes, an MP7, USP .45, TSG-1 Terminator Paintball Sniper Rifle and two Tippmann X-7s, and a Jeep Compass.


So in the space of one day you've lost your SL-8 and rebought the MP-7 that you'd sold?



Here's how it will go from here.

1. You'll come clean and plead mercy from the forum,


or;


2. You'll continue to talk **** in which case you'll become another notch in a mod's gunbelt.



Think fast.

[D-gin]

So in the space of one day you've lost your SL-8 and rebought the MP-7 that you'd sold?

Maybe his friend got him another one.p-)

Think fast.
That might be a problem for this one.

[Nano]

I don't remember how much I paid for something, unless I get that something a lot.

That means you don't remember how much it cost you to get laid the first time right? I have the predecessor to the MP7 the MP3 it's a 9mm and recoil at full auto makes accurate fire difficult, because it does not have a shoulder recoil support extension or add-on. How is the recoil on the MP7?

[Ngati Tumatauenga]

Maybe his friend got him another one.p-)

Six-foot white rabbits named Harvey cannot legally procure firearms in the USA.

Nor can the easter bunny, santa claus or big foot.

[D-gin]

Six-foot white rabbits named Harvey cannot legally procure firearms in the USA.

Nor can the easter bunny, santa claus or big foot.

I think he was referring to his sugar momma (aka) the tooth fairy.

[California Joe]

Hurry up and get your sh*t together son, the only Mod specified infraction for "extreme stupidity" I can find is a 10 pointer (you know just like those waywickedcool sniper target bullseyes) and carries a 2 week vacation...

[digrar]

Wait one, I'm looking for my horses arse avatar.

[Hollis]

I have shadow beat, I got a plasma rifle, a needler, a fuel rod gun, a M8088 Scorpion MBT, A M12 warthog LRV, M19 SSM Rocket launcher, M90 SHotgun, MA5B assualt rifle, 52 AM Sniper rifle and a M60 pistol. If I am really lucky I can get a banshee from the covenent.

[Ngati Tumatauenga]

Dude, you're to old to be knowing **** like that...

[LaoSexMachine]

Damn son!!! Should of stuck to lurking.

[California Joe]

We could keep him around as a pet.

[amazing kg3]

We could keep him around as a pet.

X2

1234567890

[D-gin]

We could keep him around as a pet.

Ask Min if he's got an extra leash and a spiked collar.

[Hollis]

Ask Min if he's got an extra leash and a spiked collar.

Could we call him "Spike".

Ngati, too OLD?, why you young whipper snapper...

My son has the manual. (actually a pretty cool game)

[D-gin]

Could we call him "Spike".

HAHA....I had a daschund named Spike, He was a mean little guy too.

[LaoSexMachine]

HAHA....I had a daschund named Spike, He was a mean little guy too.

Yeah but this pet has an MP7. Mad props!!woot

[Ngati Tumatauenga]

Ngati, too OLD?, why you young whipper snapper...

p-).......

[MrGoodKat]

This is the best thread I have ever seen on any website!rofl

and in the interest of full disclosure...the MP7 is nothin. I am currently bidding on a suitcase nuke on Ebay. I'm expecting to pay between $250 and $400woot

[cliffg]

We haven't heard from our little buddy for hours. Getting boring round here. I guess his mom made him go to bed.

MrGoodKat: I already got a suitcase nuke off e-bay. But, it's legal now. You see, my brother's best friend is a physicist, and he converted it to a conventional bomb. For half price. I sold it the other day for the battleship USS Texas, which I keep near my ranch outside of Houston. No, really. Those 12-inch guns are gonna be killer come duck season.

[Redguy]

http://img95.imageshack.us/img95/4731/shadowspeargm3.jpg

[Hollis]

http://img95.imageshack.us/img95/4731/shadowspeargm3.jpg


That is Just beautiful.......... How in the heck did you get a photo of Spike so fast?

[udt87]

FN P90 and MP7 can only be compared because their Ammo is roughly the same.

The P90 is an Armour piercing Submachine gun, they call it a PDW only after the MP7 came out.
But the P90 is a tactical Submachine gun, and is carried like one.

The MP7 is a true PDW which can be carried like a Pistol on the Hip. It is meant as a Pistol replacement with more accuracy, Firepower and armour piercing ability. The P90 is rather bulky and can not be carried like a Pistol, and it was never meant to.

They are completely different concepts, both are good for what they are meant, but to compare them is wrong.

Hey, that's fine. I only ment for them to be compared because of that reason... that the ammo they shoot is roughly the same. You must agree with me though, that it is a better comparison then an MP7 to an M-16.

[velvet-cream]

FN P90 and MP7 can only be compared because their Ammo is roughly the same.

The P90 is an Armour piercing Submachine gun, they call it a PDW only after the MP7 came out.
But the P90 is a tactical Submachine gun, and is carried like one.

The MP7 is a true PDW which can be carried like a Pistol on the Hip. It is meant as a Pistol replacement with more accuracy, Firepower and armour piercing ability. The P90 is rather bulky and can not be carried like a Pistol, and it was never meant to.

They are completely different concepts, both are good for what they are meant, but to compare them is wrong.

I don't quite agree with your definition of a "PDW". As discussed in an earlier post, we've established that the P90 was referred to by gun magazines/writers as a PDW before the MP7 was around.

I understand the PDW can be interpreted differently, and "PDW" in the past have referred to small subguns like the MP5K-PDW, which was an MP5K with a stock and barrel lugs.

But in my opinion, the definition of a PDW these days generally refers to an automatic weapon with a size somewhere between a machine pistol and an assault rifle/carbine. The critical factor being, it fires a round that has better range and armour penetration than a pistol round, but less than an assault rifle cartridge.

Modern examples - KAC PDW, FN P90, and HK MP7.

Any thoughts, ladies and gents? I'm open to disagreement.

[velvet-cream]

I understand that the MP7 has a significantly smaller form factor that the P90 (diff in length of ~16cm, and the ability to holster on the thigh). Similarily, a full size m16 and a full size Steyr Aug has a difference in length of ~20cm due to the bullpup design. Yet armies when selecting an assault rifle still compare the two directly, 'cause they fire the same cartridge, and fulfill the same role. So I wouldn't say comparing the two PDWs is entirely wrong.

Think about it this way. If you were in charge of procurement, and tasked to select a PDW type weapon for drivers etc, I'm sure you will compare and contrast the MP7 with the P90.

[ShadowSpear]

Okay........................
I bought a 6x/12x Rifle Scope
I sold my MP7 to a freind and he basically gave it back to me once he got an MP5.
I never sold my SL-8 either just forgot to mention it.
The MP7 has little-moderate recoil.
And I just ordered my Barrett.

[Macs.]

You are hilarious, ShadowSpear.

[Niels]

Okay........................
I bought a 6x/12x Rifle Scope
I sold my MP7 to a freind and he basically gave it back to me once he got an MP5.
I never sold my SL-8 either just forgot to mention it.
The MP7 has little-moderate recoil.
And I just ordered my Barrett.
It just keeps getting better and better. rofl

I think ShadowSpear deserves his own thread. Why don't you show us some pics of your Super Ninja Delta Elite armoury?

[Macs.]

I bet ShadowSpear serves in somekind of SPEC OPS... He sure got lots of high-speed friends.

Please let us know ShadowSpear.

[theholeinthedonut]

Be nice lads!!!

[ShadowSpear]

Dude if it was elite, I'd have the following:
4 Machetes
10 Ka-Bars
2 Neck Knives
Military Isssue Weapons such as:
HK G36K
HK MP7A1
HK MP5SDA3
Colt M177 Commando
FN P90
HK Mark 23 SOCOM
Barrett XM109 AMPR
CheyTac M200 Carbine
M10114 JSCS
Colt M4A1 with XM-26LSS
Mikor MGL

[Macs.]

Okay... So where do you work ? You got to have a cool job.

[Freibier]

Okay........................
I bought a 6x/12x Rifle Scope
I sold my MP7 to a freind and he basically gave it back to me once he got an MP5.
I never sold my SL-8 either just forgot to mention it.
The MP7 has little-moderate recoil.
And I just ordered my Barrett.
You're aware that one day you will stand before Heavens Gate and then St- Peter will send you off to purgatory (or worse!!!) for all those lies?
Repent, Repent!! Before it's too late!!!



hahahahaha http://cheesebuerger.de/images/smilie/teufel/a038.gif

[ShadowSpear]

No, my brother knows a lot more people then I do. Since he served in the military longer, he knows a lot of people. SEALs, Rangers, Air-Refeuler pilots, Fighter pilots, Force Recon Marines, etc.

[Macs.]

So you only served a short time ?

[ShadowSpear]

I'm a graphic designer

[Macs.]

I thought you were a sniper ?

[Niels]

I'm a graphic designer

Occupation:
Sniper
:roll:............

[ShadowSpear]

I was a sniper in the Marine Corps. Got to rank of GySgt.

[Macs.]

Oh cool, so I take it you have been deployed ?

[Freibier]

I was a sniper in the Marine Corps. Got to rank of GySgt.
GySgt - that's gynecological sarge?

[ShadowSpear]

Yeah and it's Gunnery Sergeant not Gyneological or w.e.
I was in Desert Strom and part of Iraqi Freedom

[Macs.]

You get around !

What's your all time best favorite super-rifle ?

[ShadowSpear]

The Denel NTW-20 20x88mm Anti-Material Payload Rifle Variant. (They have a 14.5x114mm Variant)

Or

The Barrett XM109 AMPR

[Macs.]

Man, you shot the Denel ? Where ?

[ShadowSpear]

I had a freind who was still in service at the time and he said that they just got a Denel at Picatinny and asked if I wanted to try it out.

It was sick. But I'd rather fire the XM109 because it's American made and it looks cooler.

[Macs.]

I understand that.

Tell us something about your time in Iraq, that would be interesting.

[Hydro]

I, too, am very interested. Please tell more, you sure have used a lot of weapons.

[ShadowSpear]

It was boring...We waited around for stuff to happen and when it did, it was usually light. ANd in IF they hit and ran. I saw a guy get his leg nearly blown off by an IED. A few years later, he rejoined and tought self-defense classes in the Corps.

[Freibier]

Let me guess, you protected ze left flank? With ze French?

[Macs.]

I, too, am very interested.

Hey old comrade.

Remember back in 1991... We both... Left flank with the French... That was sick.

[Macs.]

It was boring...We waited around for stuff to happen and when it did, it was usually light. ANd in IF they hit and ran. I saw a guy get his leg nearly blown off by an IED. A few years later, he rejoined and tought self-defense classes in the Corps.

Intense.

As a sniper... What was your longest distance shot at a live target ?

[Hydro]

Hey old comrade.

Remember back in 1991... We both... Left flank with the French... That was sick.


Haha, yeah dude. Fun times with the French out there.

[ShadowSpear]

I'll tell you more later, I have to meet up with some friends. We're going hiking. I'm definately brining my USP along, so I can grab some food on the way. LOL

[Lov3ll]

Hows about just posting some pictures of you holding your weapons with a lil sign saying i <3 mp.net p-)

[ShadowSpear]

2,000 Yards.

[theholeinthedonut]

Quote"It was sick. But I'd rather fire the XM109 because it's American made and it looks cooler."

Ahh........... I see you're a high speed, low drag operator, you know about the two most important aspects of firearms.......the cool look and american made......very mucho importante senior

[Macs.]

I'll tell you more later, I have to meet up with some friends. We're going hiking. I'm definately brining my USP along, so I can grab some food on the way. LOL

LOL

Later.

[Niels]

I'll tell you more later, I have to meet up with some friends. We're going hiking. I'm definately brining my USP along, so I can grab some food on the way. LOL
Okay some time to make up a story. LOL

[Hydro]

2,000 Yards.



Sweet dude, 2,000 yards? That's good, I only topped 1,600 when I was out on the left flank during GW1 with the Frenchies...their FR-F1's were good, but mine had a custom turned polygonal barrel, and a handcrafted bolt engraved with the likeness of Hathcock himself. Macs can verify, he was the water boy out there!! LOL!

[JoaMei]

Allahu ackbar, everything Hydro said is true.

I was the one he shot, it did really hurt! :bash:

[California Joe]

Holy Cheeeeerist! :cantbeli:

[Indiana Jones]

Allahu ackbar, everything Hydro said is true.

I was the one he shot, it did really hurt! :bash:
Don´t be a sissy mate, it literally bounced of your impressive beer gut.

[JoaMei]

No, you mixed up these two stories. I deflected that TOW Missile with my Beer gut, that bullet we are talking about did not penetrate my breasthair. Its still somewhere in there.

That was just minutes after I shot down that Apache Helo with my pellet gun, remember that day?

[udt87]

No, my brother knows a lot more people then I do. Since he served in the military longer, he knows a lot of people. SEALs, Rangers, Air-Refeuler pilots, Fighter pilots, Force Recon Marines, etc.

ummm.... so where do air refueler pilots fit in to you obtaining your lovely list of merchandise? What Teams, Groups, Div., etc. is your brother associated with? What branch is your brother? My brother is OPFOR in Louisiana training SEALs, Rangers, Force Recon, MPs, reg. infantry, etc. for deployment to Iraq and Afganistan so does he know them... yes. But would they hook him up with arms of the nature you describe you owning... H3LL no!! I mean, it's like : "who wants to go to Jail? I do!! I DO!!!" So... I speculate that you own a class III FFL? I doubt it.

[Ngati Tumatauenga]

I was a sniper in the Marine Corps. Got to rank of GySgt.

When and where did you attend SS school?

[LaoSexMachine]

ShadowSpear reminds me of a turd that just won't flush.

[muttbutt]

The Denel NTW-20 20x88mm Anti-Material Payload Rifle Variant. (They have a 14.5x114mm Variant)

Or

The Barrett XM109 AMPR:roll:
Is that even anywhere near ready for service?

[muttbutt]

2,000 Yards.
hell of a shot Gunny

[Seraphim]

Perhaps twins maybe???

http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/member.php?u=31126

http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/member.php?u=31127

[Ironsight06]

Please someone ban this cocksucker. Put him out of his misery.

[udt87]

I just wonder how many (if any) years ShadowSpear spent in the Marines.

[ShadowSpear]

Where elese would I go for Sniper training?
None other then Camp Quantico itself.
WTF (as in Who The F***) is ShadowForceRecon?
Dude, just saying my bro knows a lot of people in different fields never said that they were related with me owning weapons.

No I don't think the XM109 is ready yet, give it about two-three more years tops and it should be ready.
I spent 11 yrs in the Marines Active and Off Duty

[D-gin]

Hey I see (the MP.net pet) Spike is back for some more fun.



http://img148.imageshack.us/img148/4742/1173331598419aw7.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[udt87]

If you spent 11 yrs total in the Marines (Active and I think you where looking for the word "Reserves"), then how come you type, act, and spell like an immature 17 year old? Also there isn't any "Camp" Quantico to my knowlage... it is MCB Quantico (Marine Core Base).

[ShadowSpear]

W.E. dude, Camp Quantico MCB are the same thing...I doubt most people will be like yeah I went to Marine Corps Base Quantico. That rolls off the tongue real nicely.

[D-gin]

W.E. dude, Camp Quantico MCB are the same thing...I doubt most people will be like yeah I went to Marine Corps Base Quantico. That rolls off the tongue real nicely.

So being there I bet you got to train with a lot of guys at the farm.

[Nano]

Okay........................
I bought a 6x/12x Rifle Scope
I sold my MP7 to a freind and he basically gave it back to me once he got an MP5.
I never sold my SL-8 either just forgot to mention it.
The MP7 has little-moderate recoil.
And I just ordered my Barrett.
Thanks for the reply to my original question.
Hows the accuracy on full auto on the MP7? The recoil on the MP3 is horrible on full-auto even though its a 9mm. I am thinking of getting an MP5 to replace my MP3 so can you give me any indication on its accuracy on full-auto and recoil since I've never shot one before, just the MP3.

[ShadowSpear]

My freind says it has pretty decent reoil. Almost the same as the MP7. A little more recoil though.

[Nano]

Ngati, too OLD?, why you young whipper snapper...

My son has the manual. (actually a pretty cool game)

You're never too old even if Ngati thinks so.
Make sure you get to play Halo 3 it is going to be the best of the series thus far.

[udt87]

I can play your childish games if you want. MCB doesn't sound like a Native American Reservation, like "Camp" Quantico. Yes, I also had a typo: Corps not Core. But, you know best... you were the Gunny.

[Nano]

My freind says it has pretty decent reoil. Almost the same as the MP7. A little more recoil though.
I think I'll get an MP5 to replace my MP3 then, since it certainly was a waste of money for the job I wanted it for.

[amazing kg3]

This is cute and funny, but lying about serving in the military is the most disgusting thing in the world. There are actual people who give up there families and time to defend your country. People who have earned their respect and integrity. This isn't about how cool you are because you fire a D3lta operator hard on of a .50 cal, it about the fact that you ****ing lack the integrity of normal person and make this wild **** up. The gun thing was fine but serving in the military. Grow up or get out.

[udt87]

This is cute and funny, but lying about serving in the military is the most disgusting thing in the world. There are actual people who give up there families and time to defend your country. People who have earned their respect and integrity. This isn't about how cool you are because you fire a D3lta operator hard on of a .50 cal, it about the fact that you ****ing lack the integrity of normal person and make this wild **** up. The gun thing was fine but serving in the military. Grow up or get out.

May I say thank you and Bravo... Correct on every aspect. Actually, makes me wish that I had controlled myself in a more professional manner.

[amazing kg3]

May I say thank you and Bravo... Correct on every aspect. Actually, makes me wish that I had controlled myself in a more professional manner.

no harm done, in fact in your 29 posts thus far i have found you to be a great user.

[Hollis]

I can play your childish games if you want. MCB doesn't sound like a Native American Reservation, like "Camp" Quantico. Yes, I also had a typo: Corps not Core. But, you know best... you were the Gunny.


The Funny Gunny?


BTW Spike cut the BS,

Link to MCBQ, http://www.quantico.usmc.mil/

Maybe it some weird game to you, maybe your just completely clueless about personal integrity as a man/whatever.

There are some pretty young people on this forum, they don't play games and are respected for who they are. You can learn a lot from them. (assuming your a young dude)

If you were a Marine and playing some punk A$$ game..

What Has My Marine Corps Come too?



Nano, Yes Halo 3 has got to be great. My son, daughter and I have played Halo 1 and 2. Actually, Military tactics work, thought there is some hookie stuff. We all made it through on legendary.

[D-gin]

This is cute and funny, but lying about serving in the military is the most disgusting thing in the world. There are actual people who give up there families and time to defend your country. People who have earned their respect and integrity. This isn't about how cool you are because you fire a D3lta operator hard on of a .50 cal, it about the fact that you ****ing lack the integrity of normal person and make this wild **** up. The gun thing was fine but serving in the military. Grow up or get out.

You're right......But don't get too worked up about this asshat, The MODs will ban him as they do with all POSERS.

[LaoSexMachine]

Where elese would I go for Sniper training?
None other then Camp Quantico itself.
WTF (as in Who The F***) is ShadowForceRecon?
Dude, just saying my bro knows a lot of people in different fields never said that they were related with me owning weapons.

No I don't think the XM109 is ready yet, give it about two-three more years tops and it should be ready.
I spent 11 yrs in the Marines Active and Off Duty

Hey, asshole I was a Marine and what the fvck is off duty. You are a fvcking POSER. You said you served in GW1 and Iraqi Freedom. GW1 was 91 and OIF was 2003. Like Nagati ask where did you attend SS school at? What unit were you with?

[Hollis]

May I say thank you and Bravo... Correct on every aspect. Actually, makes me wish that I had controlled myself in a more professional manner.


udt, amazing is correct, your 5 by 5.

[DevilDogHopeful]

Hey, asshole I was a Marine and what the fvck is off duty. You are a fvcking POSER. You said you served in GW1 and Iraqi Freedom. GW1 was 91 and OIF was 2003. Like Nagati ask where did you attend SS school at? What unit were you with?

Or

Where did you attend bootcamp?
What date did you graduate bootcamp?
What was your bootcamp platoon number?
Duty Stations?

So on..

The boys over at www.leatherneck.com would have a field day with him. :-D

[udt87]

udt, amazing is correct, your 5 by 5.

Thank you. If you own an xbox 360, and feel that it would be appropriate for your kids, the new game "Crackdown" has a Halo3 beta for xbox live. :)

[amazing kg3]

My Friend died in Iraq. He was Canadian, but he served in the Marines, then in the US army. Cpl. Mike Seely. He was supposed to be back, but he was held up a few days and was KIA. I drive by his Grave all the time, and man i miss him. He didnt die for his country he died for yours, but he was made of Iron, he was pulling for all of us.

Ban or not, youll do it again. Stop lying, please, i dont care about the guns, but man, your just insulting there names now, alive or not.

[DevilDogHopeful]

My Friend died in Iraq. He was Canadian, but he served in the Marines, then in the US army. Cpl. Mike Seely. He was supposed to be back, but he was held up a few days and was KIA. I drive by his Grave all the time, and man i miss him. He didnt die for his country he died for yours, but he was made of Iron, he was pulling for all of us.

Ban or not, youll do it again. Stop lying, please, i dont care about the guns, but man, your just insulting there names now, alive or not.

X2. If you are a poser you are a fvcking disgrace to those Marines who fell and those who had to EARN the EGA threw blood, swear and tears.

Sorry about your friend brother. RIP to him.

[amazing kg3]

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/new-brunswi...eeleydead.html (http://www.cbc.ca/canada/new-brunswick/story/2006/11/01/nb-seeleydead.html)

just incase anybody wants to know more.

[Hollis]

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/new-brunswi...eeleydead.html (http://www.cbc.ca/canada/new-brunswick/story/2006/11/01/nb-seeleydead.html)

just incase anybody wants to know more.


Thanks for the Post, He was one heck of a guy, Marine and Soldier. May He Rest In Peace.

[DevilDogHopeful]

"I said, 'Please keep your head down,' and he said, 'Don't worry Mom, they won't get the best.' Well on Monday they did."

:-(


http://www.cbc.ca/gfx/images/news/photos/2006/11/01/nb-seeleypic.jpg


Rest In Peace Michael Seeley.

[udt87]

Peace be with him.

[Chops]

Please someone ban this cocksucker. Put him out of his misery.

My pleasure

[Hellfish]

I missed this ****? Aw man... I wanted to quiz him about clearing misfires on the M240.

[Hydro]

I missed this ****? Aw man... I wanted to quiz him about clearing misfires on the M240.



You put your face under the feed tray.

[Miles.]

Pathetic...

[Andreas]

How come I always miss these threads when I have wasted so much of my life on MP.net?

For great injustice!!

[militaryaircraftjunkie]

Kinda sad to see the MG3 getting phased out... It's similar appearance and sound to the MG42 just maintains that terrifying edge that the German Army is and has been known for. C'est la vie. At least it'll still be on some vehicles.