Cheney asks Pakistan to stop al Qaeda 'regrouping'

[dedgod]

http://edition.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/asiapcf/02/26/cheney.pakistan.ap/index.html

So we should be seeing an Al-Qaeda #3 being arrested soon...and the tail will continue to wag the dog...


I did think this quote was funny
During more than two hours of talks Monday, Musharraf told Cheney that Pakistan "has done the maximum in the fight against terrorism" and that "joint efforts were needed for achieving the desired objectives," his office said.

But they don't want us following the terrorists into Pakistan...So really they don't want a joint effort...

I guess he means we should sign more peace deals with the taliban?

[deagle]

not discounting their effort, but if their forces corraled terrorists or raided their camps , i think the world's media would know about their deeds. Seems like we got the terrorists isolated and sandwiched between the border mountains, but we need both hands to squeeze'm

[Laworkerbee]

Musharraf is walking a fine line, push too hard and he could be gone through Coup or assination which of course is the worse case scenario.

Let me guess dedgod you think when Mr Bush picks up a phone call AQ get arrested to please internal American politics? give me a break already

[dedgod]

Musharraf is walking a fine line, push too hard and he could be gone through Coup or assination which of course is the worse case scenario.
Let me guess dedgod you think when Mr Bush picks up a phone call AQ get arrested to please internal American politics? give me a break already

No, I believe that whenever the heat is turned up, the Pakistanis either catch or elmiminate some Al-Qaeda threat (note: not taliban..al qaeda)....not to please american internal politics, but to please american politicians who are turning up the heat on then...

That seems to get them off the heat for a while, Al-Qaeda regroups, then things start picking up...and we turn on the heat again, and yet another Al-qaeda figure is eliminated...more kudos to the pakistanis...and the cycle repeats itself...

To me, in a virtual police state like Pakistan, it is absolutely inconceivable that the ISI does not know where most of the Al-Qaeda terrorists are...

Also i call BS on
Musharraf is walking a fine line, push too hard and he could be gone through Coup or assination which of course is the worse case scenario.
..
That is a bad scenario ...but not the worse case that it is made out to be...
He will simply be replaced by another military dictator or by corrupt politicians...And things will go on ....

Assasinating Musharraf is not going to put the Taliban in power...

The Army has ruled Pakistan pretty much for most of its existence..No civilian government has *ever* completed its term in office.

The Army in pakistan, is not just that...its a corporation..Former army officers are heads of plum government posts, and private corporations..They are *not* going to give up their elite money making rich posts, and whisky drinking habits to a wannabe taliban politician..

Its one thing to have archaic shariah laws and banning of music, and preventing the shaving of beards in the lawless tribal provinces..and entirely different from doing the same in the Punjab and modern urban areas like Lahore where most of the army hails from....

Of course, the "After Musharraf who?" argument helps Musharraf more than anyone else...

[Laworkerbee]

Makes sense good post dedgod.

An Islamist coup in Pakistan is the stuff of nightmares, last I heard US intelligence agencies in the 1990's used to do a "beard" count among Pakistani military officers.

[Durandal]

We should have kept going into Pakistan too...but noooo we had to invade Iraq.

It seems people tend to forget that prior to 9/11, Pakistan was one of the few countries that dealt with the Taliban as a legitimate government with fairly good ties.

But hey, we are allied with Pakistan out of our commitment to democracy, freedom, and transparency...

:|

[Meteor]

We should have kept going into Pakistan too...but noooo we had to invade Iraq.

It seems people tend to forget that prior to 9/11, Pakistan was one of the few countries that dealt with the Taliban as a legitimate government with fairly good ties.

But hey, we are allied with Pakistan out of our commitment to democracy, freedom, and transparency...

:|

Maybe you should check your history books.
Pakistan is a long time US ally in the area.
Attacking them would the stupidest thing from the USA. :slap: :bash: :backhand: :fork: :-*$

And you`re not allies because of democracy, freedom and other BS like that, but because the nearby neighbor, India is a buddy of Russia.

[Durandal]

Maybe you should check your history books.
Pakistan is a long time US ally in the area.
Attacking them would the stupidest thing from the USA. :slap: :bash: :backhand: :fork: :-*$

And you`re not allies because of democracy, freedom and other BS like that, but because the nearby neighbor, India is a buddy of Russia.

Take it easy there wacko...sarcasm man. My point is, we have a president claiming he wants freedom and democracy but LOVES to hang out with tin pot dictators.

My point is, border or no, we need to be pursuing the Taliban and AQ, if Pakistan ain't going to do it, we (and NATO) should be. You give 'em a place that is a safe haven and the war will NEVER end.

As far as India goes, we should BETTER allies with them, since they ARE far more democratic and far more prosperous. Pakistan is nothing but a dump with little future.

[Freibier]

and a couple nukes

[Meteor]

My point is, border or no, we need to be pursuing the Taliban and AQ, if Pakistan ain't going to do it, we (and NATO) should be. You give 'em a place that is a safe haven and the war will NEVER end.
.

AFAIK, Pakistan`s SSG gave a helping hand right after 9/11 when they escorted SAS patrols in Afghanistan.
It`s hard to think that Pakistan it`s a safe place for the bastards :fork:

[California Joe]

Just because it's hard for you to think doesn't mean it isn't happening.

[Russian_dude]

http://blogs.abcnews.com/theblotter/2007/02/cia_bin_laden_i.html

Look at the end. Rumors that US obtained video surveillance of either OBL or his no2.

[Atlantic Friend]

My point is, border or no, we need to be pursuing the Taliban and AQ, if Pakistan ain't going to do it, we (and NATO) should be. You give 'em a place that is a safe haven and the war will NEVER end.

Alright, but that means, technically speaking, trespassing on the sovereignty of a heavily armed nuclear power...which is raising the stakes more than a few notches up.

[Laworkerbee]

Alright, but that means, technically speaking, trespassing on the sovereignty of a heavily armed nuclear power...which is raising the stakes more than a few notches up.

But in the long run would not an intervention in the tribal areas help the Pakistani government which has been unable to assert control in the area. I have no doubt any intervention would be extremely messy though.

How you been man did I ever send you my Paris pictures? Napoleons tomb was my favorite place!!!

[Atlantic Friend]

But in the long run would not an intervention in the tribal areas help the Pakistani government which has been unable to assert control in the area. I have no doubt any intervention would be extremely messy though.

How you been man did I ever send you my Paris pictures? Napoleons tomb was my favorite place!!!

Nope, you sure did not - SHAAAAAAAAAME on you ! Now you have no choice than to send me all the pics with heaps of comments and captions !

Yes, the Invalides is an impressive place, with Napoleon's and quite a few other distinguished Maréchaux' tombs. After Napoleon's, I liked Foch's best. Impressive, with the WW1 soldiers carrying the coffin.

[Macs.]

Pakistan's Musharraf on Thin Ice

By Matthias Gebauer (matthias_gebauer@spiegel.de) in Peshawar, Pakistan

US Vice President **** Cheney's recent visit to Pakistan was far from a gesture of friendship. The United States are putting massive pressure on Pakistan to finally take action against the Taliban active on the country's border. But can Musharraf afford it?

If you believe Pakistan's Foreign Ministry, there was nothing unusual to report this Monday. US Vice President **** Cheney had just arrived in Islamabad for an unannounced visit on his way to Afghanistan and was having lunch with Pakistani President General Pervez Musharraf. Perfectly normal security precautions, a press spokeswoman said in reply to questions as to why the visit has been kept secret. A "normal visit between partners."

But even the few photographs made available from the visit suggest that the speedy stopover by President George W. Bush's right-hand man was not the friendly bonding session the spokeswoman would have one believe. Cheney barely managed an awkward smile when he shook the hand of his host for the camera.

He left Pakistan after just a few hours -- without giving a public statement or even holding a press conference with Musharraf. "Visits between friends look a bit different," one Western diplomat commented. It is likely, he added, that Cheney's had stopped in Pakistan to admonish US-ally Musharraf.

The visit is the clearest indication of just how tense relations between Washington and Islamabad have become. Even as Pakistan remains nominally a strategic partner in the ongoing struggle against the Taliban and al-Qaida, such an explicit hand-slapping -- administered in part publicly but also in anonymously circulated allegations -- is rare. The accusation is that Pakistan is not doing enough to fight terror groups in the border region near Afghanistan -- and that Islamabad may even be partially responsible for the Taliban comeback. With the Taliban spring offensive imminent, it seems US patience has run out.

Still, the official account of the visit sounded relatively harmless. "Cheney expressed US apprehensions of regrouping of al-Qaida in the tribal areas and called for concerted efforts in countering the threat," Musharraf's office said. The statement also referred to Cheney expressing "serious US concerns on the intelligence being picked up of an impending Taliban and al-Qaida 'spring offensive' against allied forces in Afghanistan." Musharraf, on the other hand, was reported to have insisted his forces had already "done the maximum" to combat extremists active on Pakistan's territory.

Threats behind closed doors

Once behind closed doors, though, Cheney didn't mince words. With CIA Deputy Director Steve Kappes by his side, Cheney threatened them US Congress, with its Democratic majority, could deny Pakistan its promised aid of $785 million if Musharraf didn't finally take action against the Taliban. Congress only recently voted to reconsider aid to Pakistan on an annual basis. Only if Pakistan made good on its promises to fight terror, the message went, would money be forthcoming.

Cheney's visit comes after weeks of similar trips by US officials to Islamabad in recent weeks. But now the tone seems to be shifting and becoming more acrimonious. An unnamed member of the Bush administration was quoted by the New York Times as saying that the administration is tired of listening to Musharraf's promises.

"He's made a number of assurances over the past few months, but the bottom line is that what they are doing now is not working," one senior administration official told the Times. "The message we're sending to him now is that the only thing that matters is results."

But it's not just the Taliban giving the United States a headache. Several Western intelligence agencies suspect that al-Qaida militants are also grouping in the border region and using the territory -- which is only loosely controlled by Pakistan's military -- for training. US President George W. Bush recently characterized the region as "wilder than the Wild West." Analysts told the Times it has once again become a "hub of militant activity."

So far, solid evidence to suggest the terror network is active in the region remains thin. Those arrested in London last year on suspicion of planning to attack a number of passenger jets are said to have had connections to the border region. Several Pakistani terrorists who killed a US diplomat with a car bomb in Karachi in March, 2006 are also said to have had contacts to al-Qaida leaders from the North Waziristan border region.

According to the New York Times, intelligence services have even identified an al-Qaida training camp. What has been known for years is that the Taliban use the area as a safe retreat after military operations -- and that the Pakistani troops controlling the border are doing little to prevent it.

"Absurd, biased and unsubstantial"

Pakistan, not surprisingly, denies these allegations. President Musharraf's spokesperson called them "absurd, biased and insubstantial" in a conversation with SPIEGEL ONLINE. Pakistan's military is doing everything to "recognize and eliminate" Taliban structures, General Shaukat Sultan insisted. He pointed out the military has stationed 80,000 soldiers along the border, whereas only few soldiers are to be seen on the Afghan side of the border. "We've done our part; now the Afghans should do theirs," the general demanded.

It's not dissimilar from the message the Pakistani has for years tried to disseminate. "We always say the same thing," Prime Minister Shaukat Aziz admits. And then he cites the same numbers given by military officials -- 80,000 soldiers on the border, more than 1,000 manned posts. But mostly politicians emphasize the military has already suffered 700 casualties in its struggle against the Taliban. "We've suffered more than other states, because of Afghanistan," the Prime Minister says, sounding almost proud.

But it was precisely the high number of casualties that forced Pervez Musharraf's government to go soft on the Taliban last year. A messenger from Islamabad signed a ceasefire with a number of militant groups active in the region -- groups known to openly support the Taliban. After the peace deal, Pakistan's troops retreated to their headquarters, venturing forth only rarely to attack Taliban positions or camps. The Taliban have been operating in the region "virtually undisturbed" ever since, according to Western intelligence analysts.

The peace deal -- really a ceasefire that was effectively forced on Pakistan -- symbolizes President Musharraf's dilemma. He knows from experience that every military offensive against the Taliban or other militant groups active in the border region will lead immediately to attacks on him or military facilities. Moreover, his own political survival is based in large part on support from radicals, say observers. Any action taken against the radicals is potentially dearly expensive.

But the US, it seems, is tired of excuses. They're said to have issued a clear threat in the past weeks that if push comes to shove, they will clear up the border region themselves. Such US-led attacks, which have occurred only rarely in the past, would break Musharraf's back politically. US intervention would be just what both fundamentalist Muslims and more moderate parties in Pakistan are waiting for to be able to attack Musharraf.

From Musharraf's point of view, much turns on when and how the United States make good on their threats. About $300 million of the US financial aid provided to Pakistan goes to the country's powerful military, which also secures the President's own power. No one has a stake in endangering Musharraf's political authority. As dissatisfied as Washington may be with his efforts to combat the Taliban and al-Qaida, what a new Pakistani government would look like in the event of Musharraf being overthrown is simply too unpredictable. And so a solution to the conflict seems difficult to achieve. But one thing is certain: Musharraf is facing a difficult year.


http://www.spiegel.de/static/sys/v8/headlines/spiegelonline.gif

http://www.spiegel.de/international/0,1518,468854,00.html

[Laworkerbee]

Yes, the Invalides is an impressive place, with Napoleon's and quite a few other distinguished Maréchaux' tombs. After Napoleon's, I liked Foch's best. Impressive, with the WW1 soldiers carrying the coffin.

Yes Foch's was great as well, something so peaceful about the place the way the light comes in through the glass. I spent much time capturing that, two of my buddies who live in Paris were surprised I wanted to go there so badly and tried talking me out of it but once we left ( I went by myself again ) they were quite silent....it seemed they had forgotten all of the things Napoleon had done for France.

I'll send you some links tonight, due to Security and Exchange Commission rules I do not have access to email and messaging systems while at work.

[Firetxmi]

I agree that more needs to be done on Pakistan's' part, but lets face it we can't even stem the flow of immigrants from our relatively small southern border, how can we expect others to play hide-and-go-seek successfully in the mountains with people who wander back and forth across borders solely for the purpose of evasion- not finding work or starting a new life?

[Laworkerbee]

I agree that more needs to be done on Pakistan's' part, but lets face it we can't even stem the flow of immigrants from our relatively small southern border, how can we expect others to play hide-and-go-seek successfully in the mountains with people who wander back and forth across borders solely for the purpose of evasion- not finding work or starting a new life?

I see your point however the United States Southern border is porous due to politics more than a lack of resources.

[Firetxmi]

I see your point however the United States Southern border is porous due to politics more than a lack of resources.

Very true...

[dedgod]

It`s hard to think that Pakistan it`s a safe place for the bastards :fork:
Why?

Pakistan created the Taliban. And it wasn't Musharraf , a military dictator. It was Benazir Bhutto, an elected woman president and to think how the taliban mistreat women.... So their roots go far back...

And please...Paksitan did not join the US because of 9/11. They joined the US because the US *threatened* Pakistan after 9/11..there is a difference..it was the threat of war with the US that forced Musharraf to join the US....

It makes sense that Pakistan supports the Taliban. They have much to gain.
(1) There is huge support for the Taliban in pakistan, and in the end, every politician is going to need this popular support to get elected.

(2) They would rather have the "friendly" taliban in power in Kabul, than an "india friendly" Northern Alliance. And make no mistake about it, *every* pakistani foreign policy descision is india centric. When the taliban was in power, the indians had to close their Kabul embassy, but the Afghan embassy in New Delhi was run by the northern alliance.

(3) They get to train fighters not just for the taliban, but also possibly for Kashmir, another contentios region where the pakistanis, have again repeatedly sent insurgents.

What the pakistanis would love to do, and imo have been doing is to do just enough to garner support on both sides. They don't want to push the Taliban, and the pakistanis make a huge distinction between the al-qaeda and taliban..they only arrest big name al-qaeda figures, rarely Taliban.

They want to keep the Taliban intact so that when the US withdraws out of Afghanistan, the Taliban can take over again.

On the other hand, they need our money to prop up their economy, not to mention line their pockets and swiss bank accounts with $$$$$..

And don't forget about F-16s. That keeps the military happy.

They are having their cake and eating it too...

Unfortunately the taliban are getting too strong..hence the stick with cheney....

[dedgod]

And as if on cue...




http://blog.washingtonpost.com/earlywarning/2007/02/intelligence_community_highlig.html?nav=rss_blog

Director of National Intelligence retired Admiral John M. ("Mike") McConnell...


Any new attack on the United States, McConnell said, is "most likely" to emerge from Pakistan, which hosts the al Qaeda leadership and other international terrorists in the ungoverned northwest region, and which serves as the breeding ground for broader Islamic radicalism.




Pakistan's internal inaction against terrorists and other militants, Maples and McConnell both agreed, also threaten stability in Afghanistan and India. "Afghanistan's relations with Pakistan are strained due to continued Taliban reliance on safe-haven in Pakistan," Maples said. "Pakistan-based militants continued attacks against India undermine Pakistan's ability to make lasting peace with its neighbor," he continued.
McConnell spoke of the need to eliminate the "safehaven" that the Taliban and others have found in Pakistan's tribal areas, but he also bent over backwards to explain the country's failure to bring the region under central government control:

[dedgod]

I agree that more needs to be done on Pakistan's' part, but lets face it we can't even stem the flow of immigrants from our relatively small southern border, how can we expect others to play hide-and-go-seek successfully in the mountains with people who wander back and forth across borders solely for the purpose of evasion- not finding work or starting a new life?
The problem isn't the border..the problem is the seminaries, and taliban training camps in that country...that are run or at the very least approved by the ISI...

[Firetxmi]

02/28/2007 11:57 PM | By Imtiaz Shah, Correspondent

Larkana: President Pervez Musharraf, facing criticism from some US and Afghan leaders over attacks by Taliban from across the border, vowed yesterday to wipe out such elements taking sanctuary in the tribal areas.

"People have come from outside. These people should leave [Pakistan] and go, otherwise we will have to deal with them and we are dealing with them," Gen Musharraf told a public rally in Larkana, a stronghold of Benazir Bhutto, the chairperson of opposition Pakistan's Peoples Party.

Musharraf's comments on the presence of foreign militants on Pakistan's soil followed a surprise visit by US vice-president **** Cheney to the country on Monday.

Cheney expressed US apprehensions of regrouping of Al Qaida in the tribal areas, called for concreted efforts in countering the threat, and pressed Gen Musharraf to be more aggressive in hunting down Al Qaida operatives.

The use of Pakistani territory by the Taliban and Al Qaida has soured Pakistan-Afghanistan relations. Some Afghan leaders have accused Islamabad of failing to do enough to stop infiltration, or even of continuing support to Taliban.

Islamabad says it does all it can and struck a deal with pro-Taliban rebels in a tribal region bordering Afghanistan under which the militants agreed to stop raids in both Pakistan and across the border.

Musharraf said Pakistan was facing threats of extremism and terrorism because of these foreign militants.

"They have all come and are living in our mountains and spreading terrorism not just in Pakistan but in the entire world," he said.

"I want to say, taking benefit of this occasion [public meeting in Larkana] that these people are putting Pakistan in danger," Musharraf added.

Hundreds of Pakistani troops and rebels have been killed in the Waziristan region as the government tries to establish its authority over the semi-autonomous tribal areas along the border with Afghanistan.

Musharraf said Islam is a religion of peace, harmony and tolerance and there is no place for extremist and terrorist tendencies in the religion.

"We have to check such tendencies, otherwise the country will not be able to move on to the path of progress and development," he added.

He dismissed the use of the concept of "jihad" by extremists and said it was only the prerogative of the government and not individuals to use it.

"We want moderation, we are strong Muslims and fully understand our obligations and responsibilities," he said, asking the people not to vote for extremist elements in the next general election, which is expected to be held next year.


link: http://www.gulfnews.com/world/Pakistan/10107815.html

[Durandal]

It`s hard to think that Pakistan it`s a safe place for the bastards

Yeah, whatever...

What sucks about all of this is that if NATO troops could cross the border we could put an end to at least one of the problems facing Afghani rebuilding.

Pakistan is good for one thing...selling innocent people into the hands of the CIA who send them to some secret prison. Pakistan needs to go on the Axis of evil list...

That place is far more dangerous than Iraq ever was.

[Mr. JOSHUA]

Yeah, whatever...

What sucks about all of this is that if NATO troops could cross the border we could put an end to at least one of the problems facing Afghani rebuilding.

Pakistan is good for one thing...selling innocent people into the hands of the CIA who send them to some secret prison. Pakistan needs to go on the Axis of evil list...

That place is far more dangerous than Iraq ever was.


Lahore - The Wild Wild Wild West of Pakistan, So dangerous that a mother of a friend of mine used to visit her sister once a year, things are so crazy down there now, people believe any Pakistani that lives in America is a traitor and a kafir. Unless of course they've been sent there on purpose for a particular reason. Numerous reports of people visiting their homeland and being kidnapped, tortured and killed have surfaced.

[dedgod]

For Any doubters about what I said in my earlier posts...


Report: Pakistan arrests one of Taliban's top three

http://edition.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/asiapcf/03/01/pakistan.taliban.reut/index.html


Pakistani security forces captured one of the Taliban's three most senior leaders just hours after U.S. Vice President **** Cheney's unannounced visit to Pakistan earlier this week

Still think that the Pakistanis can't find Al-Qaeda and the Taliban ?

Here are my earlier posts in this thread

So we should be seeing an Al-Qaeda #3 being arrested soon...
Ok so its a Taliban #3..close enough i think...


To me, in a virtual police state like Pakistan, it is absolutely inconceivable that the ISI does not know where most of the Al-Qaeda terrorists are...
A few hours to capture the Taliban leader...hmmmmm......

In some sense, this is a good sign, this is the first time they have arrested a Taliban leader

[Durandal]

If Cheney can accidentally shoot a good friend of his, just think what he'll do to a rogue nation that he cannot trust.

If I were the Pakis I would drum up some sort of sacrifice to keep the capital from getting carpet bombed further into the stone age.

p-)