RPG's in the IDF

[Givati575]

Now I always thought I knew the Israeli army inside out. I mean i've been in the IDF for 7 months now but close to the beginning of tironut I learned that one of the weapons for our infantry is the RPG. I was shocked. I still am in shock that the IDF uses RPG 7's that we captured from Syria in 1973.

I know the ammo is cheap and we got the launchers themselves for free, but I just feel weird seeing these things in use in the IDF.

I don't know I just thought i'd let that out. How long have we been using them anyways?

[GiladS]

The RPG is a simple and reliable weapon so why not use it?

The IDF has and still is utilizing captured enemy tanks (the Tiran as a MBT in the past and the Aczarit APC in the present) then why not utilize a weapon which is routinely being captured by our forces even today?

The RPG rockets used by the IDF are manufacturered by IMI by the way.

[gaijinsamurai]

I believe the RPG-7 has been in IDF service for a long time.
I read somewhere that in training, if a soldier misses his target, the money spent on the round comes out of his meager paycheck. Any truth to this?

[IDF_TANKER]

I believe the RPG-7 has been in IDF service for a long time.
I read somewhere that in training, if a soldier misses his target, the money spent on the round comes out of his meager paycheck. Any truth to this?

Sounds crazy. But even if it so, soldiers never pay the whole price of the lost/broken equipment, but only a fine(which is rather symbolical, as it is taken out of their salary, which is also pretty symbolic - ~200$ for a combat soldier during his regular service).

[GiladS]

I read somewhere that in training, if a soldier misses his target, the money spent on the round comes out of his meager paycheck. Any truth to this?

Sounds like BS to me.

[gaijinsamurai]

That's kinda what I figured.

[deagle]

it could be a rumor, though it'll motivate any soldier NOT to miss their target. Still, i wouldn't be surprised of RPG use.... its a damn reliable weapon, like the ak47. it was no wonder the mujadeen coveted these two, and held their own.

[exarmyguard]

Doesn't Israel make rounds for the RPG? I had to pay for a piece of rain gear I lost in the field once. I sure didn't lose anything else after that experience.

[GiladS]

Doesn't Israel make rounds for the RPG?


........................................



The RPG rockets used by the IDF are manufacturered by IMI by the way.

[Kaplanr]

I'm pretty sure it goes back to the mid 70s. It was what I was trained on. And then I got a MAG. ;) It is/was highly effective, certainly cheap, and it seemed to have a better reputation for effectiveness and reliability than the LAWs we also had. Of course we also had a guy carrying rifle grenades too; are they still issued?

I heard the stories too about paying for misses, but never saw it put into action. The MAGists were "encouraged" to find extra 7.62 ammo for large exercises for longer bursts and general mayhem. We usually found it laying around the tankers' laagers - not well guarded.

Most of our RPGs were Russian (mid 80s) though we were told that IMI was developing or producing them too. The rumor was that they could easily re-produce the warhead, but not the solid propellant in the first "tube". For those not familiar, the RPG-7 comprises three pieces; the launcher which you see every militiaman in the world carrying and then the two pieces that comprise the rocket and warhead.

[GiladS]

Of course we also had a guy carrying rifle grenades too; are they still issued?


Not since the M-16 replaced the Galil as the IDFs main assault rifle I belive (there's the M203 instead).

[exarmyguard]

........................................

Next time I will read the (very) fine print....

[Kaplanr]

Not since the M-16 replaced the Galil as the IDFs main assault rifle I belive (there's the M203 instead).

We had the M-203 too (come to think of it, an IDF platoon packs a lot of HE,) but then we used it almost exclusively for flares. If we wanted HE or smoke we used the 52mm mortar. At the time we kept being told that the HE for the M-203 wasn't safe.

[GiladS]

We had the M-203 too (come to think of it, an IDF platoon packs a lot of HE,) but then we used it almost exclusively for flares. If we wanted HE or smoke we used the 52mm mortar. At the time we kept being told that the HE for the M-203 wasn't safe.

A Galil fitted with an M203... now that's something I would love to see.

[Ghelp]

I have seen some photos of Israeli soldiers with the RPG-7 before.Can any one post them.The Rpg-7 is a good weapon.The Israeli soldiers can even get pick up rounds when in operations.What types of rounds does IMI make for the Rpg-7.

Can rifle grenades be used on the Negev?

http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n253/G-Capo333/Colombia/colombiansoldierwithriflegrenades.jpg

[GiladS]

I have seen some photos of Israeli soldiers with the RPG-7 before.Can any one post them.

http://uploaded.fresh.co.il/2004/01/04/695861.jpg

Posted by a member of the board (UoUo):
http://img297.imageshack.us/img297/3871/img3679ny7.th.jpg (http://img297.imageshack.us/my.php?image=img3679ny7.jpg)



Can rifle grenades be used on the Negev?


A three-position gas regulator controls the rate of fire and includes an off position for rifle grenade-launching capabilities.

http://www.israeli-weapons.com/weapons/small_arms/negev/Negev.html

[IsraDani]

They're still used especially in training, no doubt they're useful.
Range, warhead and accuracy of the IMI Rpg are good as the original russian one.

[exarmyguard]

Speaking of Israeli rifle grenades, why doesn't the USA use them? SOunds like it would be a good supplant to the M203.

[GiladS]

Speaking of Israeli rifle grenades, why doesn't the USA use them? SOunds like it would be a good supplant to the M203.

I know of the SIMON breach grenade (developed by Rafael) being used by the U.S.

[GiladS]

Here's an interesting Israeli rifle grenade system I came by.




REFAIM Advanced Infantry Weapon System


The Refaim system was designed for the advanced version (http://www.defense-update.com/news/62302tavor2.htm) of the Tavor (http://www.defense-update.com/directory/tavor.htm) but is compatible with any rifle, enhancing the accuracy, lethality agility and flexibility of the weapon. The system offers line of sight and beyond line of sight activity, around the corner viewing and shooting capability and embedded training and mission rehearsal functions.


Refaim uses an air-burst telescopic bullet trap rifle grenade with point detonation, time delay and self destruct functions. The fragmentation charge is optimized against infantry targets but can also penetrate vehicles and windows by utilizing a short time delay, thereby maximizing the effect behind or within cover.


The system can also use an add-on grenade launcher such, such as the M-203. The airburst grenade uses a programmable time delay fuse which is set by the Multi-Purpose Rifle System (MPRS) (http://www.defense-update.com/products/m/mprs.htm) fire control system designed by International Technologies Lasers (ITL).


The MPRS measures the range to the target, displays a corrected aiming point for proper elevation necessary for accurate firing, and automatically sets the time delay fuse in the grenade to activate the bomb just before impact, at a preset altitude over the target. The fuze can also be set to explode at a preset delay after an impact, to penetrate a soft target (a window, for example).


IMI is also developing two new submunitions for the Refaim. The MPRS has additional C4I functions, including a digital compass and laser pointer which provide effective battlefield coordination, as well as full integration into tactical command and control systems. Information from the system can be displayed at the team and squad level, neighboring forces such as tanks or helicopters, or link up to higher command echelons.


At LIC 2004 IMI unveiled an inert Refaim grenade with an embedded camera and communications link, which can send a view of the target as it descends to strike. This low cost system provides a "bird's view" of the target. The image is collected by the receiving unit and displayed to the user as a static image of the target, with various zoom options. The second new Refaim grenade is equipped with CS irritating gas, and is designed to provide security force effective non lethal means, fired at a range of a few hundred meters, over five times the distance currently used by CS grenades and canisters.


http://www.defense-update.com/products/r/refaim.htm

[NimDod]

Here's an interesting Israeli rifle grenade system I came by.

http://www.ynet.co.il/PicServer2/03072003/292885/IMG_wh.jpg

http://www.ynet.co.il/PicServer2/03072003/292887/IMG2_wh.jpg

[Givati575]

I believe the RPG-7 has been in IDF service for a long time.
I read somewhere that in training, if a soldier misses his target, the money spent on the round comes out of his meager paycheck. Any truth to this?

not true, at least not in nachal :D

[Mastermind]

In my experience, the RPG-7 is highly reliable, fairly accurate up to 150 yds, the AT has excellent armor penetration (practically ignores slope of target armor), has a good array of warheads, is inexpensive, plentiful, easy to handle, easy to learn to use. I would not hesitate to include it in my army's arsenal. IDF is smart to use it.MM

[Givati575]

I have seen some photos of Israeli soldiers with the RPG-7 before.Can any one post them.The Rpg-7 is a good weapon.The Israeli soldiers can even get pick up rounds when in operations.What types of rounds does IMI make for the Rpg-7.

Can rifle grenades be used on the Negev?

http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n253/G-Capo333/Colombia/colombiansoldierwithriflegrenades.jpg

i don't think the negev can use rifle grenades, it was designed after the IDF stopped using them.

[Givati575]

In my experience, the RPG-7 is highly reliable, fairly accurate up to 150 yds, the AT has excellent armor penetration (practically ignores slope of target armor), has a good array of warheads, is inexpensive, plentiful, easy to handle, easy to learn to use. I would not hesitate to include it in my army's arsenal. IDF is smart to use it.MM

makes perfect sense as to why we use it. I just would have never thought of the IDF using Russian weapons.

[NimDod]

makes perfect sense as to why we use it. I just would have never thought of the IDF using Russian weapons.

IDF used alot of Russion weapons over the years and some units still do.

Shayetet 13 (seals) had AK47's and Palsar Nahal uses the RPD up to this day.

[NimDod]

arg! plz delete

[Givati575]

IDF used alot of Russion weapons over the years and some units still do.

Shayetet 13 (seals) had AK47's and Palsar Nahal uses the RPD up to this day.

my best buddy is in palsar nachal he says they don't use it


what other anti tank weapons does the IDF use besides the LAW. I saw a picture of some soldiers with the javelin or an at4 or something.

[Ghelp]

i don't think the negev can use rifle grenades, it was designed after the IDF stopped using them.

http://www.israeli-weapons.com/weapons/small_arms/negev/Negev.html


A three-position gas regulator controls the rate of fire and includes an off position for rifle grenade-launching capabilities.

I hope we get some of the new barrel launched grenades for some of the rifles.Or not since the under barrel launchers are used.

http://unffmm.com/Galerias/Ejc/Tavor/Tav_ejc%20(3).JPG

[Kaplanr]

A Galil fitted with an M203... now that's something I would love to see.

But ours were attached to the M-16. The rifle grenades were for the Galils.

http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/M203-1.jpg
http://www.military-page.de/waffen/imi/galil/bild_galil_10.jpg

[Ghelp]

What is interesting is that Colombia is the maker of the Galil a Israeli rifle and exports them to Israel today.

http://img212.imageshack.us/img212/2828/imagen283001915qy.jpg

[Givati575]

What is interesting is that Colombia is the maker of the Galil a Israeli rifle and exports them to Israel today.

http://img212.imageshack.us/img212/2828/imagen283001915qy.jpg



uhmmm what??? Maybe I didn't understand that but, the Galil is an Israeli made rifle

[Ghelp]

Israel no longer produces it.Only Colombia still does.

[exarmyguard]

I have held and fired a Galil on a civilian firing range on two occasions. One word comes to mind in recalling the rifle...Heavy. Heavy compared to the M16A1 and A2 that I trained on. The balance of the rifle was not to my liking either. Of course, being weened on the M16 produces bias.

[Ghelp]

Did you fire the 5.56 version or the 7.62 version.Both are heavy and many like the M-16/M-4 because it is lighter but the Galil is not as ****e to jamming in the field.

[kosse]

I guess it's what you are used to. Not even women complain about it here. Btw. did Colombia recieve machinery from Israel? If so it has certainly come a long way.. p-)

[Ghelp]

Indumil bought the license from Israel to produce the Galil rifle series.The only maker in the world today.When marching miles with heavy gear and your rifle.It will become heavy even for the strongest man in the unit.

http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n253/G-Capo333/Colombia/DSC00328.jpg

http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n253/G-Capo333/Colombia/324.jpg

[GiladS]

I just would have never thought of the IDF using Russian weapons.

As I mentioned before on the thread, Israel had made extensive use of captured Soviet developed tanks after the Six Day War and still to this day uses the T-55 chasis (Achazarit APC).

[GiladS]

what other anti tank weapons does the IDF use besides the LAW. I saw a picture of some soldiers with the javelin or an at4 or something.

TOW/Orev, Spike/Gill (these, like the Javelin, fit the category of ATGMs)...

[GiladS]

uhmmm what??? Maybe I didn't understand that but, the Galil is an Israeli made rifle

Galil is an Israeli developed rifle. ;-)

[kosse]

Galil is an Israeli developed rifle. ;-)

Bullsh1t. It's merely a licenced copy of Valmet. Sure there are differences, but not that much that you could say Israeli developed rifle. Israel even bought the machinery that was used to make valmets. Still, if you want to give credit to someone, give it to Mr. Kalashnikov.

[GiladS]

Bullsh1t. It's merely a licenced copy of Valmet. Sure there are differences, but not that much that you could say Israeli developed rifle. Israel even bought the machinery that was used to make valmets. Still, if you want to give credit to someone, give it to Mr. Kalashnikov.

And then someone can come up and claim that the AK-47 was a copy of the MP-44.

Rarely do you see a weapon that is created in a vacuum, however that doesn't necessarily make it a copy.

[KillerBD]

Bullsh1t. It's merely a licenced copy of Valmet. Sure there are differences, but not that much that you could say Israeli developed rifle. Israel even bought the machinery that was used to make valmets. Still, if you want to give credit to someone, give it to Mr. Kalashnikov.

I hope your not talking about the Valmet M-82 assault rifle, if so the Gilil has nothing in common with it, so quit complaining. (well they do have a little in common, but not that much).
http://www.world.guns.ru/assault/valmet_82-1.jpg
^Valmet M-82
http://www.world.guns.ru/assault/galil-arm-r.jpg

^Galil

Courtesy of: http://www.world.guns.ru/assault/as00-e.htm

Back on topic:

As far as I know the RPG-7 can shoot a wide variety of missiles, so I'm sure Isreal may have a more modern HEAT rocket developed for the RPG-7.

[kosse]

And then someone can come up and claim that the AK-47 was a copy of the MP-44.

Rarely do you see a weapon that is created in a vacuum, however that doesn't necessarily make it a copy.
Yeah let's see, Galil has milled receiver, upturned cocking handle and ambidextrous safety. And the other differences..wait, what other differences?

Jippo posted some good pictures about SAKO M92S (improved valmet):

http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?t=60332

[gaijinsamurai]

The belief that the Ak-47 was a copy of the MP44/Stg43 is a myth, based on the way they look. Internally, they are very different.

[NimDod]

my best buddy is in palsar nachal he says they don't use it

by Fresh forum, this pic is of palsar nachal and it came from http://www.gal-ed.co.il/nachal
http://www.niftyuploads.com/uploads/413260140e.jpg

Sayeret Golani uses the RPD and Egoz uses the PK
http://www.niftyuploads.com/uploads/3c28fa5e43.jpg
http://www.niftyuploads.com/uploads/7e5286d9ae.jpg

[exarmyguard]

that middle photo is an RPD, me thinks.

[exarmyguard]

Did you fire the 5.56 version or the 7.62 version.Both are heavy and many like the M-16/M-4 because it is lighter but the Galil is not as ****e to jamming in the field.

It was a Galil with the wood fore end and the built in bipod. I would want to lug that thing around. I would rather have a M249 if I wanted something with some weight to it.
Come to think of it, I always prefered the M16A1 over the other variants cuz of its weight and balance. I had one with the A2 circular fore end in place of the triangle ones. It was a nice combination.

[Givati575]

As I mentioned before on the thread, Israel had made extensive use of captured Soviet developed tanks after the Six Day War and still to this day uses the T-55 chasis (Achazarit APC).

i wasn't speaking of the achzarit and stuff, i was just talking about small arms