Womens Rights

[Seraphim]

Did you guys see Hilary Clinton at that womens rally telling all women to vote against Bush.

[Fitzcarraldo]

yes.
Was that the pro-abortion rally?

[Seraphim]

yes.
Was that the pro-abortion rally?

Abortion was the main point of the rally yes.

[Midtown]

She needs to bake me some ****ing cookies already.

[Fintin]

She needs to bake me some f*** cookies already.

not how i would have phrased it but....well yes...where is my cookie....

[Haiw]

yes.
Was that the pro-abortion rally?

Abortion was the main point of the rally yes.
Well then it would make sense... I mean, Bush is anti-abortion right? Then of course from a pro-abortion point of view you definately shouldn't vote Bush.

[Tengu]

Makes sense idd ;) Haiw. Btw pro-abortion here.

[HELEX]

Women should have the right to choose, no doubt.

[Maverick77]

They should also stop bitching about every mother****ing thing that doesnt go their war.

[Haiw]

Makes sense idd ;) Haiw. Btw pro-abortion here.
Same here, but let's not start this inflammable discussion again... ;) :roll:

[UkrainianAmerican]

They should also stop bitching about every f*** thing that doesnt go their war.
YEAH! :D

[Jack Mehoff]

I'd rather save the lives of unborn babies than womens rights because they like have *** and forgot a pill or two.

Of course there is alway the exceptions such as in the case of incest, rape, or endangerment to the mother's life.

[UkrainianAmerican]

I'd rather save the lives of unborn babies than womens rights because they like have *** and forgot a pill or two.

Of course there is alway the exceptions such as in the case of incest, rape, or endangerment to the mother's life.
Incest makes for some GREAT videos. :D

[Haiw]

I'd rather save the lives of unborn babies than womens rights because they like have *** and forgot a pill or two.

Of course there is alway the exceptions such as in the case of incest, rape, or endangerment to the mother's life.
BTW just something I heard a while back from someone; it's actually possible to take the pill and still get pregnant. About 1 out of 100 ppl have a different hormones balance which results in ineffectiveness of the pill.

[Jack Mehoff]

Stay abstinence if you can't handle the responsibility.

[Haiw]

I'm just saying there's some holes in the "it's their own ****ing fault so live with it"-argument (yes there's more holes).

[Seoulstriker]

Why is there an exception for rape/incest? It's still murder of unborn children...

But we all know that killing children is wrong, right? :|

[farmgirl]

I'd rather save the lives of unborn babies than womens rights because they like have *** and forgot a pill or two.

Of course there is alway the exceptions such as in the case of incest, rape, or endangerment to the mother's life.
Incest makes for some GREAT videos. :D


Do you really think that's funny? Just curious. :roll:

[Haiw]

Why is there an exception for rape/incest? It's still murder of unborn children...

But we all know that killing children is wrong, right? :|
:cantbeli:
Here we go again...fire at will.

[UkrainianAmerican]

I'd rather save the lives of unborn babies than womens rights because they like have *** and forgot a pill or two.

Of course there is alway the exceptions such as in the case of incest, rape, or endangerment to the mother's life.
Incest makes for some GREAT videos. :D


Do you really think that's funny? Just curious. :roll:
My comment or the videos?
The videos are pretty neat, actually. :D

[Haiw]

...which brings us to the next topic:
"How would you like to torture RussianAmerican?"

Time for some homies to give you some buttpounding. :roll:

[Caraway]

Why is there an exception for rape/incest? It's still murder of unborn children...

But we all know that killing children is wrong, right? :|

Aborted fetus or embryo is NOT a child. Why not stop masturbating as well, Seoulstriker? Unbelievable that you consider abortion as a murder. How stupid are you? :bash:

[Rilence]

Why is there an exception for rape/incest? It's still murder of unborn children...

But we all know that killing children is wrong, right? :|

Aborted fetus or embryo is NOT a child. Why not stop masturbating as well, Seoulstriker? Unbelievable that you consider abortion as a murder. How stupid are you? :bash:
thats a really mature arguement...in some cases abortion is murder but thats just me and sometimes its ok but yeah a aborted fetus or embryo is not a child...im staying out of this subject because ppl might jump on me in here i know how much imaturity there is in this board ;) :P

[Ichhabe]

Why is there an exception for rape/incest? It's still murder of unborn children...

But we all know that killing children is wrong, right? :|

Aborted fetus or embryo is NOT a child. Why not stop masturbating as well, Seoulstriker? Unbelievable that you consider abortion as a murder. How stupid are you? :bash:
thats a really mature arguement...in some cases abortion is murder but thats just me and sometimes its ok but yeah a aborted fetus or embryo is not a child...im staying out of this subject because ppl might jump on me in here i know how much imaturity there is in this board ;) :P

...or some in this forum start posting some sick pictures that they seem to think support their case.

And I swear to God the Almighty, creater of REVENGE; That if you do so Seoulstriker, I personally jump on the first plane and come over and sniff you up, smoke you out and beat the crap out of you. :bash: :bash:

[Nawlins]

Why is there an exception for rape/incest? It's still murder of unborn children...

But we all know that killing children is wrong, right? :|

Aborted fetus or embryo is NOT a child. Why not stop masturbating as well, Seoulstriker? Unbelievable that you consider abortion as a murder. How stupid are you? :bash:

That's your opinion. And calling people stupid isn't valid discussion, it's flame bait, so give it a rest.

[cut]

Why is there an exception for rape/incest? It's still murder of unborn children...

But we all know that killing children is wrong, right? :|

do you think iof it as a child as soon as the sperm meets the egg/fertilisation/when the cell splits? when?

are you against the morning after pill.

Are you against wanking because you see it of murdering loads of potential kids by blasting them into a kleenex? Where do you draw the line?

[Seoulstriker]

I take the limit of t-->0 to determine when life begins. :| Just like when life ends. :|



Ichabe, I don't need to post the pictures because you already know what an aborted child looks like. :|

[cut]

I take the limit of t-->0 to determine when life begins. :| Just like when life ends. :|



Ichabe, I don't need to post the pictures because you already know what an aborted child looks like. :|

t-->0?

Which ever way you look at it I think it's prodominently a womans dicision, therefore they should decided not George Bush

[Seoulstriker]

t=time. Is abortion after birth ok? why not? is abortion a few minutes before birth ok? few hours? few weeks? few months? If we can agree on that an infant is considered life, then you take the limit when t-->0. some people mistakenly take an arbitrary limit. people say life arbitrarily begins at birth. others say 2 months before that. but they don't take the limit t--->0 unfortunately.

When you realize that life, the division of cells from the union of a sperm and egg, begins at the union of the sperm and egg, then you understand why you are killing a human being when you have an abortion. you simply can't argue with the science.

Woman's right to kill defenseless human beings? :|

[Maine Finn]

t=time. Is abortion after birth ok? why not? is abortion a few minutes before birth ok? few hours? few weeks? few months? If we can agree on that an infant is considered life, then you take the limit when t-->0. some people mistakenly take an arbitrary limit. people say life arbitrarily begins at birth. others say 2 months before that. but they don't take the limit t--->0 unfortunately.

When you realize that life, the division of cells from the union of a sperm and egg, begins at the union of the sperm and egg, then you understand why you are killing a human being when you have an abortion. you simply can't argue with the science.

Woman's right to kill defenseless human beings? :|

I think that, unless you've had to make such a decision, none of you really know what the right to abortion means. I've never been in this position and I hope to never be. But the turmoil that must result from being faced with such a choice.... I can't even begin to imagine.

[Ria]

I hate abortions, but does George Bush honestly think that just because he makes it illegal, people will stop doing it? :roll: Next thing you know, women will have to get abortions by people who probably don't know what they're doing and who are using not correctly sterilized tools. Instead of trying to ban something that will still be practiced (more dangerously than when it was legal) he needs to focus on promoting condoms and other contraceptive devices.

People also need to realize that their decisions come with consequences :|

[Seoulstriker]

I think that, unless you've had to make such a decision, none of you really know what the right to abortion means. I've never been in this position and I hope to never be. But the turmoil that must result from being faced with such a choice.... I can't even begin to imagine.


Maine, what do you think right to abortion means? The right to avoid responsibility? The right to kill life? The right to post-conception constraception?

[Seoulstriker]

I don't like abortions, but does George Bush honestly think that just because he makes it illegal, people will stop doing it? :roll: Next thing you know, women will have to get abortions by people who probably don't know what they're doing and who are using not correctly sterilized tools. Instead of trying to ban something that will still be practiced (more dangerously than when it was legal) he needs to focus on promoting condoms and other contraceptive devices.

People also need to realize that their decisions come with consequences :|

Ria, this has nothing to do with GWB. The ban on partial birth abortion was to prevent the practice of a barbaric procedure where a child is given birth to, but prior to that being completed, the child is savagely killed. This is absolutely not a necessary procedure and is actually extremely dangerous in itself.

Making something illegal will force women to go to doctors who don't practice proper medicine? Would anyone go to a non-certified doctor and go under the 'knife' to get her child killed? Is the practice of abortion safe as it is?

[Maine Finn]

I think that, unless you've had to make such a decision, none of you really know what the right to abortion means. I've never been in this position and I hope to never be. But the turmoil that must result from being faced with such a choice.... I can't even begin to imagine.


Maine, what do you think right to abortion means? The right to avoid responsibility? The right to kill life? The right to post-conception constraception?

What I think about the matter doesn't make a difference. I'm not the one with the weight of the decision on my shoulders.

[Ria]

Making something illegal will force women to go to doctors who don't practice proper medicine? Would anyone go to a non-certified doctor and go under the 'knife' to get her child killed? Is the practice of abortion safe as it is?

I believe that many senseless teenagers would. Is the practice of abortion safe as it is? No, of course not. Even common surgeries are not completely safe. But women, especially young girls, who don't want the huge responsibility of a child, will go to pretty extreme lengths to make sure they don't have to carry that responsibility. It's so sad, but it's the truth :(

[Seoulstriker]

I believe that many senseless teenagers would. Is the practice of abortion safe as it is? No, of course not. Even common surgeries are not completely safe. But women, especially young girls, who don't want the huge responsibility of a child, will go to pretty extreme lengths to make sure they don't have to carry that responsibility. It's so sad, but it's the truth :(

What do parents think about their child being pregnant? What do they think of their child having ***? Having *** is a huge responsibility, and getting pregnant as a result of that and 'needing' to get an abortion to prevent that is getting around her responsibilities. Will they go to extreme lengths to avoid that responsibility? Sure, they give birth to the children and they kill the child themselves. That's a problem. :|

[Jack Mehoff]

If I remember correctly, a murderer was charged for double homicide because he murdered his wife and her unborn child. Funny how the law works, huh?

[Haiw]

Oh god...here we go again.

"How to build your anti-abortion argument"

'Lesson 1: Never talk about feutuses (sp?) and never talk about abortion or anything...always refer to it as killing a child.'

'Lesson 2: Always call it life. Even though it isn't life enough to even know what's going on, and even though the only similiarity it has with a baby is the shape in which the cells are ordered, just keep calling it life, even though it is just about as much 'life' as a vegetable.'

'Lesson 3: It's always the mothers fault. She should have thought of it. I mean, it's impossible to think that it isn't always completely her fault, or that it would be better for everyone if there was no child.'

'Lesson 4: Have we already mentioned that you should always talk about abortion as if you're talking about murdering another (help-less) human being?'

'Lesson 5: When getting in a sticky situation, always try to use shock-and-awe measures by posting pictures of what an aborted feutus looks like!'

'Lesson 6: When all else fails, resort to calling the pro-abortionists hippy liberals! That will shut them up for sure!'

"Congratulations! You are now ready to start your anti-abortion argument!"

[Tengu]

I think its up to doctors to say when abortion is acceptable.

Ow well, just come to Belgium. Good guns, lots of history, gay marriages and abortion are legal and gooooood food. woot

There is a catch; we share a border with the Dutch :( (on the other hand their women are easy and smoking a joint is legal there) .

[Ria]

What do parents think about their child being pregnant? What do they think of their child having ***? Having *** is a huge responsibility, and getting pregnant as a result of that and 'needing' to get an abortion to prevent that is getting around her responsibilities. Will they go to extreme lengths to avoid that responsibility? Sure, they give birth to the children and they kill the child themselves. That's a problem. :|

Yeah, I know :| My best friend got pregnant at age 17. She still has the baby, but I'm sure it is not being taken care of as well as it should. My other friend got pregnant at around that age, and it died a couple months ago from crib death. They just weren't thinking. They wanted a "good time" :| *Sigh* Like I said before, I wish people could realize that there are consequences, so this type of thing wouldn't have to happen. But it will, and it won't stop. :(

[Seoulstriker]

I think its up to doctors to say when abortion is acceptable.

And doctors don't say that abortion is acceptable. Just as doctors will not prescribe antibiotics for viral infections, but if the patient pesters the doctor again and again, they will give them the damn prescription just to make them happy.




Oh god...here we go again.

"How to build your anti-abortion argument"

'Lesson 1: Never talk about feutuses (sp?) and never talk about abortion or anything...always refer to it as killing a child.'

'Lesson 2: Always call it life. Even though it isn't life enough to even know what's going on, and even though the only similiarity it has with a baby is the shape in which the cells are ordered, just keep calling it life, even though it is just about as much 'life' as a vegetable.'

'Lesson 3: It's always the mothers fault. She should have thought of it. I mean, it's impossible to think that it isn't always completely her fault, or that it would be better for everyone if there was no child.'

'Lesson 4: Have we already mentioned that you should always talk about abortion as if you're talking about murdering another (help-less) human being?'

'Lesson 5: When getting in a sticky situation, always try to use shock-and-awe measures by posting pictures of what an aborted feutus looks like!'

'Lesson 6: When all else fails, resort to calling the pro-abortionists hippy liberals! That will shut them up for sure!'

"Congratulations! You are now ready to start your anti-abortion argument!"

That's all you got? Sad... :|

[Seoulstriker]

Yeah, I know :| My best friend got pregnant at age 17. She still has the baby, but I'm sure it is not being taken care of as well as it should. My other friend got pregnant at around that age, and it died a couple months ago from crib death. They just weren't thinking. They wanted a "good time" :| *Sigh* Like I said before, I wish people could realize that there are consequences, so this type of thing wouldn't have to happen. But it will, and it won't stop. :(


exactly. :| and abortion isn't the solution.

[Haiw]

I think its up to doctors to say when abortion is acceptable.

And doctors don't say that abortion is acceptable. Just as doctors will not prescribe antibiotics for viral infections, but if the patient pesters the doctor again and again, they will give them the damn prescription just to make them happy.
Speaking for all docters again? Are you there official spokesman or something?


That's all you got? Sad... :|
Well it's not like argueing about this with you makes for fruitfull discussion because you're like a anti-abortion fundamentalist. Plus you fitted the 6 lesson program quite well... :roll:

[Rilence]

oh well so much for respecting someone elses opinions i guess bashing is the next best thing?? ;) :P

[Rilence]

i'll take that as a yes ;) :P

[2Sheds_Jackson]

Oh god...here we go again.

"How to build your anti-abortion argument"

'Lesson 1: Never talk about feutuses (sp?) and never talk about abortion or anything...always refer to it as killing a child.'

'Lesson 2: Always call it life. Even though it isn't life enough to even know what's going on, and even though the only similiarity it has with a baby is the shape in which the cells are ordered, just keep calling it life, even though it is just about as much 'life' as a vegetable.'

Well, er .. following your argument - you'd advocate killing senior citizens who appear to not know what's going on? Maybe those in a hospital bed & who are unresponsive? How responsive is unresponsive? Profoundly retarded people are truly unresponsive - should we send them to the great beyond? How much must it look like a baby to be a baby? 12%, 50%, 99% - what if it's full term & disfigured ...Just askin'..


'Lesson 3: It's always the mothers fault. She should have thought of it. I mean, it's impossible to think that it isn't always completely her fault, or that it would be better for everyone if there was no child.'

Unless she was raped, yeah, she's on the hook for exactly 50% of the responsibility. And yet she has 100% of the choice. And sure it may be better for her..but when you generate new children - one should consider what may be better for them...


'Lesson 5: When getting in a sticky situation, always try to use shock-and-awe measures by posting pictures of what an aborted feutus looks like!'

Caveat Emptor baby! Know what your $350 is buying. If it appears distasteful, maybe it is. If you can't even face what your'e proposing to do...if you can't gladly show others your actions, perhaps one should reconsider one's actions...


'Lesson 6: When all else fails, resort to calling the pro-abortionists hippy liberals! That will shut them up for sure!'

I always advocate name calling. But just calling them "pro-abortionists" instead of "pro-choice" is good enough for me. There are radical feminists who insist that any women having children are being oppressed. They implore women to abort all children, so that women are on the same level as men.

There are even those who advocate aborting infants under three months of age (I'm talking about 3 months AFTER they're born), because they're still (as you say) pretty much a vegetable. It's all about our convenient, throw away modern society. All this while millions are spent on "designer" babies - surrogate mothers, in-vitro etc. And we wonder why kids have low self esteem. Our society assigns no value to them, well, until they have some disposable income to spend.

[Trigger]

Oh god...here we go again.

"How to build your anti-abortion argument"

'Lesson 1: Never talk about feutuses (sp?) and never talk about abortion or anything...always refer to it as killing a child.'

'Lesson 2: Always call it life. Even though it isn't life enough to even know what's going on, and even though the only similiarity it has with a baby is the shape in which the cells are ordered, just keep calling it life, even though it is just about as much 'life' as a vegetable.'

Well, er .. following your argument - you'd advocate killing senior citizens who appear to not know what's going on? Maybe those in a hospital bed & who are unresponsive? How responsive is unresponsive? Profoundly retarded people are truly unresponsive - should we send them to the great beyond? How much must it look like a baby to be a baby? 12%, 50%, 99% - what if it's full term & disfigured ...Just askin'..

Nice post 2Sheds.

Welcome to Haiw's '6 steps to building the Master Race' p-)

[Haiw]

Oh god...here we go again.

"How to build your anti-abortion argument"

'Lesson 1: Never talk about feutuses (sp?) and never talk about abortion or anything...always refer to it as killing a child.'

'Lesson 2: Always call it life. Even though it isn't life enough to even know what's going on, and even though the only similiarity it has with a baby is the shape in which the cells are ordered, just keep calling it life, even though it is just about as much 'life' as a vegetable.'

Well, er .. following your argument - you'd advocate killing senior citizens who appear to not know what's going on? Maybe those in a hospital bed & who are unresponsive? How responsive is unresponsive? Profoundly retarded people are truly unresponsive - should we send them to the great beyond? How much must it look like a baby to be a baby? 12%, 50%, 99% - what if it's full term & disfigured ...Just askin'..
No I don't advocate that, though I do advocate pulling the plug on someone that's clinically dead (brain-dead). Oh wait, they already do that.
When you're talking about a young fetus, we're not even talking about defined cells. We're talking about stem-cells. Nothing 'works', it's just like a machine without power. It doesn't feel, it doesn't see, it doesn't know, it doesn't have an idea what's going one, not in the last part because it doesn't experience anything. Even when you talk about a retarded person that totally doesn't know what's going on, they still see, live, experience, feel, etc. The 'life' of a fetus is only life on paper.
And I don't really talk about how much it should look like a baby because that's irrelevant (and besides, the heap of stemcells looks a fair lot in the shape of a baby).



'Lesson 3: It's always the mothers fault. She should have thought of it. I mean, it's impossible to think that it isn't always completely her fault, or that it would be better for everyone if there was no child.'

Unless she was raped, yeah, she's on the hook for exactly 50% of the responsibility. And yet she has 100% of the choice. And sure it may be better for her..but when you generate new children - one should consider what may be better for them...
Well there's some more exceptions, like for example I mentioned a different hormone balance which leads to the pill malfunctioning, a torn condom, etc. etc. Then you still have the lot that seemed to have been asleep at *** ed (:roll: I know, but there are stupid people like that out there), drunk people, etc. etc.
I know that's pretty weak, but still, even the law knows exceptions when a person can't be fully kept responsible for their actions. And she has a 100% of the choice. Yes. It's in her womb remember. She's the person that's gonna have to squeeze it out.
And about generating new children; you only just started the 'production process', so there's no 'them'. Like I said, it's still just a lump of stem cells that doesn't even have the ability to think, feel or form an opinion. It cares just as much as an ash tray.



'Lesson 5: When getting in a sticky situation, always try to use shock-and-awe measures by posting pictures of what an aborted feutus looks like!'

Caveat Emptor baby! Know what your $350 is buying. If it appears distasteful, maybe it is. If you can't even face what your'e proposing to do...if you can't gladly show others your actions, perhaps one should reconsider one's actions...
Oh I can face it perfectly fine, it's just that some people might think 'Ewww it looks like a baby'. Sure...it's a heap of stem cells. Makes perfect sense that it's gonna look like a baby early on because it makes no sense to have to restructure them at a later time. Besides, ever seen any other surgery? Yup...looks 'eeewwww'-y as well. And I propose war as a last resort as well, but that doesn't mean I have to like the sight of it.



'Lesson 6: When all else fails, resort to calling the pro-abortionists hippy liberals! That will shut them up for sure!'

I always advocate name calling. But just calling them "pro-abortionists" instead of "pro-choice" is good enough for me. There are radical feminists who insist that any women having children are being oppressed. They implore women to abort all children, so that women are on the same level as men.
Well I gotta agree; radicalist feminism (like pretty much all radical things) is pretty crazy. IMO everyone should just be left to their own choice (with a decent bit of councelling and such (for example, here in the Netherlands you can't just go down to the hospital and have it taken out within an hour, it takes several visits to a psychiatrist, etc. etc., it's a pretty big process).


There are even those who advocate aborting infants under three months of age (I'm talking about 3 months AFTER they're born), because they're still (as you say) pretty much a vegetable. It's all about our convenient, throw away modern society. All this while millions are spent on "designer" babies - surrogate mothers, in-vitro etc. And we wonder why kids have low self esteem. Our society assigns no value to them, well, until they have some disposable income to spend.
I know the line of when it becomes 'alive' becomes blurry, but I gotta agree untill under 3 months of age is...wrong. First, at that time we're not talking about a heap of stem cells anymore, and second... if you're gonna do abortion it's bull**** to do it in the 6th month anyway.
BTW surrogate mothers and in-vitrio aren't 'designer' babies, that's just babies for people that have no way to get a child the natural way. And kids having low self esteem hasn't really got anything to do with abortion (and if it does they should get a higher self esteem because, hey, they were spared!), if it really exists it's got more to do with the people around them in society.

And no, Trigger, I'm not advocationg 'not-so-natural-selection'... that belongs in Mengele's book. People who are advocating that should be shown what a state prison looks like.

[Haiw]

Just a note, I may have been too generous at labeling everything as a hump of stem cells, but still, even when something in the 3rd month still has some defined cells, the point still stands; it's still like a computer without power just waiting to be fully configured and booted up. If a baby in the 3rd month would have been 80 years older they would have pulled the plug on it.

[EvanL]

I believe abortion should only be used under extreme circumstances. It should not be used as a form of birth control. We have condoms and pills and creams for that. (not to mention blowjobs jk).
Seoul, You should have been a blowjob. You should of ended up swimming around in your mothers hair.

[Caraway]

I believe abortion should only be used under extreme circumstances. It should not be used as a form of birth control. We have condoms and pills and creams for that. (not to mention blowjobs jk).
I agree!

[FallenAngel]

Just my two cents. Not trying to argue with everyone but here's my beliefs.

There are certain philosophical views that determine that the killing of a human is wrong because it deprives us of a "future like ours" or 'FLO'. All other factors are either transmittable to other animals (pain, sense of loss, etc.) or apply to people we would never kill in civilized society (infants, toddlers, healthy elderly, etc.)

The argument goes that killing a embryo/ fetus deprives it of a 'FLO' since it WOULD almost cetainly (baring miscarriage or some other natural illness) have a productive and full life. Given that argument, how can women (irresponsible for the most part- 95+% of abortions are birth control abortions) say it is their "right" to decide whether or not to allow a person to experiance a full life?

That, and I am Catholic, so that reinforces the idea.

The only real exception is when the life of the mother is at risk. At that point, it is considered self defense and morally permissible.

Rape victims rarely get pregnant. First of all, it's a one in ten chance (roughly) that the rapist would attack a women when she's fertile. Of that roughly 10% chance, the trauma and shock suffered in the attack usually make fertilization and/or implantation very....difficult. Only something like <5% of rape victims actually become pregnant.

As for incest....same argument about the retarded. Would the kid be screwed up? Yes, possibly, but then that opens the door to killing cripples, retarded people, people with genetic deseases, etc.

If someone has irresponsible *** and is found with the burden of an unwanted pregnancy...have the child. It's only 9 months not 90 years. There are literally tens of thousands of families looking to adopt children. Why kill them when you could easily let a another loving family adopt it? Sure, it will be hard for 9 months, but it's not the end of the world.

Interesting facts:

Since public schools have started giving out condoms in the '60s and feminist movement, teen pregnancy (and unwanted pregnancies in general) has risen astronomically as promiscuity is accepted in society as "ok". (which actually has effected the divorce rate too. Marriages between two non-virgins has a >50% chance of ending in divorce. Marriages between two virgins has <5% chance of ending in divorce.)

The Supreme Court had no right to rule on the Roe v Wade decision. The supreme court is supposed to rule on the constitutionality of laws already eastablished by the legislation, thus creating a prescidence on the inturpitation of that law. Since there was (and still is not) any law on the books either for or against abortion, the Supreme Court had no authority to hear the case and create a new de facto law.

[Seoulstriker]

Excellent post, FallenAngel.




(which actually has effected the divorce rate too. Marriages between two non-virgins has a >50% chance of ending in divorce. Marriages between two virgins has <5% chance of ending in divorce.)

Now, THAT is a very interesting statistic. I did not know that before.

[FallenAngel]

I hate abortions, but does George Bush honestly think that just because he makes it illegal, people will stop doing it? :roll: Next thing you know, women will have to get abortions by people who probably don't know what they're doing and who are using not correctly sterilized tools. Instead of trying to ban something that will still be practiced (more dangerously than when it was legal) he needs to focus on promoting condoms and other contraceptive devices.

People also need to realize that their decisions come with consequences :|

I agree with your last part. The natural consequences of *** are pregnancy. That's why it exists- for reproduction. Physical pleasure is just a side bonus. When people consent to ***, they consent to- at the very minimum- the possibility of getting pregnant. If they think it through responsibly (most people do not) they would choose not to have ***.

However, the first argument is irrational. By that line of thinking we should hand out clean needles in public schools because, hey, kids are going to do heroin anyways right? Might as well give them clean needles. Or how about gangs and guns? They are going to buy or steal illegal weapons anyways, so why doesn't the government sell them some military surplus at discount rates? The government wins....the gang members win. Or how about suicidal people? Forget therapy....if someone truly wants to kill themselves...they will. THey will always find a way. Why not just give them a gun and a bullet- makes the whole process more efficient that way...

You see, you can not give that "well, it's going to happen anyways..." argument because it opens the door to a lot of other stupid things. Where would you draw the line? And, mind you, whereever you draw it and no matter how well you explain it, it IS arbitrary and there will always be someone to argue that point.

The easiest way- indeed the only FAIR way- is to set a standard across the board and if someone wants to do it anyways....well, I guess that shows they haven't fully considered the alternatives now have they?

[FallenAngel]

Excellent post, FallenAngel.




(which actually has effected the divorce rate too. Marriages between two non-virgins has a >50% chance of ending in divorce. Marriages between two virgins has <5% chance of ending in divorce.)

Now, THAT is a very interesting statistic. I did not know that before.

Thanks striker. Yeah...I was astounded too. The divorce rate in the US currently is around 55% (give or take one or two) for ALL couples, and my gf showed me that statistic one time but I forgot where it was but I know it was a Christian affiliated site.

[Haiw]

Actually in a way that does make sense... because people that are divorced once are often the same people that divorce several times. And guess what; you can't marry as a virgin twice. p-)

[SwissGrenadier]

I believe abortion should only be used under extreme circumstances. It should not be used as a form of birth control. We have condoms and pills and creams for that. (not to mention blowjobs jk).
Seoul, You should have been a blowjob. You should of ended up swimming around in your mothers hair.


That's exactly my opinion!!!

[Operation Ivy]

Seoul, You should have been a blowjob. You should of ended up swimming around in your mothers hair.

rofl

I say let the woman decide

[Herrmannek]

Actually in a way that does make sense... because people that are divorced once are often the same people that divorce several times. And guess what; you can't marry as a virgin twice. p-)

Best piece of demagogy I've heard lately. I love tricks with percents :).

[EvanL]

Keep your rosaries off my ovaries! hahaha
p-)

[Ria]

I hate abortions, but does George Bush honestly think that just because he makes it illegal, people will stop doing it? :roll: Next thing you know, women will have to get abortions by people who probably don't know what they're doing and who are using not correctly sterilized tools. Instead of trying to ban something that will still be practiced (more dangerously than when it was legal) he needs to focus on promoting condoms and other contraceptive devices.

People also need to realize that their decisions come with consequences :|

I agree with your last part. The natural consequences of *** are pregnancy. That's why it exists- for reproduction. Physical pleasure is just a side bonus. When people consent to ***, they consent to- at the very minimum- the possibility of getting pregnant. If they think it through responsibly (most people do not) they would choose not to have ***.

However, the first argument is irrational. By that line of thinking we should hand out clean needles in public schools because, hey, kids are going to do heroin anyways right? Might as well give them clean needles. Or how about gangs and guns? They are going to buy or steal illegal weapons anyways, so why doesn't the government sell them some military surplus at discount rates? The government wins....the gang members win. Or how about suicidal people? Forget therapy....if someone truly wants to kill themselves...they will. THey will always find a way. Why not just give them a gun and a bullet- makes the whole process more efficient that way...

You see, you can not give that "well, it's going to happen anyways..." argument because it opens the door to a lot of other stupid things. Where would you draw the line? And, mind you, whereever you draw it and no matter how well you explain it, it IS arbitrary and there will always be someone to argue that point.

The easiest way- indeed the only FAIR way- is to set a standard across the board and if someone wants to do it anyways....well, I guess that shows they haven't fully considered the alternatives now have they?

I just got pwned :| ;)

That's very true...I just have mixed feelings about the whole thing (I do about many things :| ). Thanks for that.

[cut]

Excellent post, FallenAngel.




(which actually has effected the divorce rate too. Marriages between two non-virgins has a >50% chance of ending in divorce. Marriages between two virgins has <5% chance of ending in divorce.)

Now, THAT is a very interesting statistic. I did not know that before.

As Benjamin Disreli once said:

There are 3 types of lies:
-Lies
-Damn Lies
-and Statistics!

and here's another one:

Marriage between two virgins is more likely to end up with one party cheating on the other because they want to experience other people.


there's another lie for you, if you believe it then you are pro if youdon't that you are against and statistically ( p-) ) narrow-minded.

[Haiw]

Actually in a way that does make sense... because people that are divorced once are often the same people that divorce several times. And guess what; you can't marry as a virgin twice. p-)

Best piece of demagogy I've heard lately. I love tricks with percents :).
Of course I was only half serious, since of course this statistical magic doesn't account for the entire lot. On the other hand of course it doesn't necessarily have much to do with religion either. It's logical that people who are rather strict and all about such things are less likely to get divorced than shag-like-a-bunny people.

Besides, there's an old saying that goes "there's lies, big lies, and statistics!". ;)

But anyway, argueing about abortion is...pretty useless. It's like everyone has a very outspoken and deeprun opinion about it, and any discussion about it leads to....nothing.


Edit: ****, that damn limey beat me to it! :D

[Ria]

But anyway, argueing about abortion is...pretty useless. It's like everyone has a very outspoken and deeprun opinion about it, and any discussion about it leads to....nothing.



Seems like many debates are like that :P

[Haiw]

In a way, maybe, but this one gets the crown lol. About as fruitfull as AK-47 vs M16, or M1A2 vs Leopard 2, or my dad vs your dad, bla bla bla.

[Operation Ivy]

You forgot 5.56 vs 7.62 ;)

[Ichhabe]

I'm talking trough my theeth here in utter rage and anger. Having advises on HUGE LIFE DECISSIONS from people that still is in the stage of life where they aren't sure if their horny or just need a pee piss the bollocks out of me.

Seolstrike, dont you dare call it killing. Never judge people untill you at least walked a 1000 miles in their shoes.

I have a whole fooking million metric ton of life experience. I did not said it the last time we had this discusting debate, but I say it now: My ex needed to take an abortion and that was the most terrible descission she had to take in her life. And I was there also, right by her frigging side. So don't come here and piss shower advises around topics that you still haven't needed to face so far in your measly life.... ****: I better stop before I crush this hecking key board. :bash: :bash: :bash:

[Maine Finn]

I'm talking trough my theeth here in utter rage and anger. Having advises on HUGE LIFE DECISSIONS from people that still is in the stage of life where they aren't sure if their horny or just need a pee piss the bollocks out of me.

Seolstrike, dont you dare call it killing. Never judge people untill you at least walked a 1000 miles in their shoes.

I have a whole fooking million metric ton of life experience. I did not said it the last time we had this discusting debate, but I say it now: My ex needed to take an abortion and that was the most terrible descission she had to take in her life. And I was there also, right by her frigging side. So don't come here and piss shower advises around topics that you still haven't needed to face so far in your measly life.... ****: I better stop before I crush this hecking key board. :bash: :bash: :bash:

Gi seg , mann.

[Haiw]

I bet that angry viking is spending an arm and a leg on keyboard replacements... ;)

[Seoulstriker]

I know that you had to be in this situation and actually go through with it. I'm sure there's a lot of guilt/remorse/regret for you (as you have shown through your message). There's a lot of pain in this for you, and I respect that.

But Ichabe, why can't I call it killing? That's exactly what it is. I'm sure it's tough to participate in such a thing, but I wouldn't want to force that pain onto someone else because they didn't understand the full nature of their actions.

I'm not trying to be offensive or even debating, but I'm stating it just how it is. :|

[Haiw]

I don't know anything about the background of the abortion Ichhabes ex but you're very quick to state that there was a lot of guilt/remorese/regret afterwards. What would make you think that? Something can still be tough without having second thoughts about it later.

And killing...well..we'lve been trough it :roll:
And 'you wouldn't want to force that pain onto someone else because they didn't understand the full nature of their actions'. Which pain? You know not everyone has second thoughts or a different opinion about it later. And even though you wouldn't want to force the possible pain that would come with an abortion upon them, you WOULD want to force the possible pain of an unwanted child upon them?

[cut]

I'm not trying to be offensive or even debating, but I'm stating it just how it is. :|

what makes you know what it is without experiencing that kind of situation? You are an arogant little bastard if you think you know best at the age of 19

[Seoulstriker]

And killing...well..we'lve been trough it :roll:
And 'you wouldn't want to force that pain onto someone else because they didn't understand the full nature of their actions'. Which pain?

When I did volunteering with helping with post-abortion counseling you simply would not believe the problems these people (especially the girls and young women) have following the procedure. Do you remember when post-partum depression was in the news when that woman did something horrible a few months after her child was born? She was driven by such hormonal and psychological problems during her bout with post-partum depression that she drowned her 6 children. Imagine that sort of phychotic state and then apply that to the abortion procedure. :| The girls involved... how can I phrase this... exhibited suicidal tendencies and near-dementia as a result of what they did and their understanding of what they did. Granted, these girls were in for counseling because they exhibited psychological problems as a result of the procedure, I would never ever ever want that kind of mind-set for any girl/young-woman.

So you're asking me why I wouldn't want that pain for other girls???????? Because I have a f***ing heart and I have f***ing compassion for these young girls.

[Ichhabe]

Seoulstriker said:


I'm sure there's a lot of guilt/remorse/regret for you

No guilt.
No remorse.
Some regret.


(as you have shown through your message)

Playing a shrink now? :bash:


why can't I call it killing?

In the whole wide world, only anti-abortioists call it that. The rest of the world call it an abortion.


I'm sure it's tough to participate in such a thing,

Hell it is, but as rest of what life is about; that is also though.


but I wouldn't want to force that pain onto someone else because they didn't understand the full nature of their actions.

So you think , you really think that most of them who decides on an abortion just use it as an "easy" way out? Do you really belive that it is for them as easy to do this as on what to decide if one want milk or juice for breakfast????

[Herrmannek]

delete

[Flagg]

The topic is Womens Rights.

I think women should have whatever rights they want because I love women....especially when they're nekkid and/or making me cookies

Other than that.....I'm not touching this topic with a ten foot poll

[2Sheds_Jackson]

It's always struck me as kind of funny that some people will argue up and down that what's "aborted" is not human, when the entire point of having an abortion is to avoid being the parent of another human.

It's not like there's any chance it will grow into a dog or house or notebook.

So a lot of people develop elaborate mechanics as to how and why it's permissible to do it. Some are more straightforward and simply say that humans are not unique, not worthy of any special protection - are to be managed & bred as you would cattle. I guess I can respect that opinion, but I doubt the same people would make that argument if it were there own existence on the line.

To live and die at the whim of another is kind of scary.

It's a tough decision no doubt. The fact that it arouses such anger in some people is proof that the moral decision is one that even they are not comfortable with. If there's absolutely nothing wrong with it...like casting off unused trash...why get so emotional?

As Clinton tellingly said "We want to make abortion safe, legal, and rare". If there's nothing wrong with it, why make it rare?

I reject the "if you haven't lived through it" or "walked a mile in my shoes" etc. argument. The ability to think, rather than experience, is one of the things that differentiates us from animals. I don't need to actually fall off a bridge to know that I'll be hurt. Experience counts for something, but not everything.

Many people ascribe to moral absolutes that do not shift based on personal circumstances. Some don't. I doubt the two groups can find common ground on this issue...


>edited for crappy spelling<

[Herrmannek]

Word

[Seoulstriker]

So you think , you really think that most of them who decides on an abortion just use it as an "easy" way out? Do you really belive that it is for them as easy to do this as on what to decide if one want milk or juice for breakfast????

No, I don't think it's an easy way out. If you see my above post on this issue, I would say that people would probably think it's easier than it actually is. If the girls would have known what they would go through as a result of it, they would absolutely never have decided to go through with it in the first place. Instead, they were lied to about the possible effects of it on them, and they went through with it and then they had to deal with moderate to severe psychosis as a result.

[Ichhabe]

Well, the rest of your "experts" can debate this subject t'll you turn blue. I have said mine, and of course I don't expect someone else to understand it.

But to finnish it: As for now; it is the womans choice. Respect it, or leave this solar system.

[cut]

So you think , you really think that most of them who decides on an abortion just use it as an "easy" way out? Do you really belive that it is for them as easy to do this as on what to decide if one want milk or juice for breakfast????

No, I don't think it's an easy way out. If you see my above post on this issue, I would say that people would probably think it's easier than it actually is. If the girls would have known what they would go through as a result of it, they would absolutely never have decided to go through with it in the first place. Instead, they were lied to about the possible effects of it on them, and they went through with it and then they had to deal with moderate to severe psychosis as a result.


why don't you stop digging and let the anti-abortionists that know what they are talking about argue the case.

[Haiw]

So you think , you really think that most of them who decides on an abortion just use it as an "easy" way out? Do you really belive that it is for them as easy to do this as on what to decide if one want milk or juice for breakfast????

No, I don't think it's an easy way out. If you see my above post on this issue, I would say that people would probably think it's easier than it actually is. If the girls would have known what they would go through as a result of it, they would absolutely never have decided to go through with it in the first place. Instead, they were lied to about the possible effects of it on them, and they went through with it and then they had to deal with moderate to severe psychosis as a result.
Errm..yeah... and how what is the percentage of people that get psychological problems after an abortus compared to all the people that get abortus? Dude, there's people that get psychological problems from heart surgery, a whiplash, or pretty much anything. Those are a minority.
And in case you haven't noticed, having an abortion is not as easy as ordering a pizza.

[Seoulstriker]

Percentages? I have no idea. I sometimes don't want to know about it. When I volunteered, there would be an average of 1-3 girls per week that I would personally meet and talk with. I don't know the number of girls seen at that outreach center when I wasn't there (I was there 2 days out of the week) or the number of young women affected in the larger suburban area.



And in case you haven't noticed, having an abortion is not as easy as ordering a pizza.

Oh really? Those girls were told that the procedure was simple when they talked to people and asked for "advice". Maybe you should volunteer your time, Haiw, and go to a crisis pregnancy center and let them know what it fully entails. :fork:

[FallenAngel]

Errm..yeah... and how what is the percentage of people that get psychological problems after an abortus compared to all the people that get abortus? Dude, there's people that get psychological problems from heart surgery, a whiplash, or pretty much anything. Those are a minority.
And in case you haven't noticed, having an abortion is not as easy as ordering a pizza.

It's actually not such a minority than you would think Haiw.

Besides the thousands of women who die during abortions each year, there are other considerations.

The earliest abortions are done through a pill which, basically, artificially causes a miscarriage. These probably make up the majority of abortions for the very reason that it IS easier to deal with- physically, emotionally, and psychologically.

The later term abortions- where the fetus must be literally torn apart in the mother's womb to be removed- is a much more trying process. Many girls bleed out during the proceedure. Those who live very often have, at minimum, a feeling of regret and guilt which they keep to themselves. Many others require extensive therapy to come to terms with what their "choice" truly meant.

Want proof? The woman who wanted the abortion in Roe v. Wade wanted the Supreme Court to reverse the decision and issued a brief to the court a few months ago when the case was up for review. She said that in her youth, she was not mature enough to fully appreciate what her "choice" meant and that now, she regretted her abortion and feels guilty for the million abortions a year for the past 30 years.

The Supreme Court, in all it's infinite wisdom decided not to hear the case.

[Haiw]

Percentages? I have no idea. I sometimes don't want to know about it. When I volunteered, there would be an average of 1-3 girls per week that I would personally meet and talk with. I don't know the number of girls seen at that outreach center when I wasn't there (I was there 2 days out of the week) or the number of young women affected in the larger suburban area.



And in case you haven't noticed, having an abortion is not as easy as ordering a pizza.

Oh really? Those girls were told that the procedure was simple when they talked to people and asked for "advice". Maybe you should volunteer your time, Haiw, and go to a crisis pregnancy center and let them know what it fully entails. :fork:
Well then you got some seriously ****ed up procedures up in the US because here in the Netherlands it doesn't work that way.
And one crazy woman who sues just to make some easy money isn't proof. p-)

[FallenAngel]

Eh, you know what they say...

"Only those already born support abortion."

[Haiw]

Well I wouldn't really care if I was aborted...because I wouldn't be in a position to even experience or care about it. In fact, I'd have never known I was aborted because I had never known about that I ever existed because I never 'knew'.

[MaDuce]

Hillairy Clintion is the Feurer of the feminists.

[Haiw]

Führer, not feurer. ;)

[NcDeuce]

"Only those already born support abortion."

Good quote there.

If a mother can 'terminate' (as delicate and nice as you can put it) her own child, we may as well allow people to murder one another. :fork:

[Haiw]

We already do.... we call it war. ;)

[FallenAngel]

Actually, if you consider the numbers of 1 million+ abortions a year for the last 30 years in the US alone, this would be over 30 million dead- or one tenth of the US population.

And why? They were "terminated" for the sole reason that they exist.

I don't call that war. I call that genocide.

[Haiw]

Nice BHD reference. :P But technically I doubt that even if you classed every abortion as a murder that you could call it genocide. But that's just echnicalities. They weren't aborted because they existed, they were aborted to prevent them from existing.

[MaDuce]

Vegans who support abortions are super funny. Eating a chicken egg is crulety to animals but destroying a human fetus is alright.

[cut]

Vegans who support abortions are super funny. Eating a chicken egg is crulety to animals but destroying a human fetus is alright.

vegans are ****ed up

[Haiw]

Same goes for anti-abortion people; if they're really so pro-life, then I suppose they're vegetarians and anti-war people as well? ;)

BTW I agree with cut. :)

[mocking_loudly_died]

100% PRO-ABORTION.

P.S I hate kids, put them in prison.

[Tane Angle]

One thing I love about this forum: One can go away for a few months and return to find that we all are exactly the same; same opinions, same topics of argument, same logic (some good, some bad). p-) Believe it or not, I actually find that continuity to be heartwarming sometimes. Othertimes, it's mind-numbing. p-)

First off, masturbation doesn't involve a new gene code. Totally different from abortion. Besides, most people over the age of seven understand that if one does not masturbate one will have what are called nocturnal emissions (wet dreams-had to put that in for giggle effect :D ). And are we to believe that the menstrual cycle is abortion too? Just because an egg cell that most women did not ask for wasn't used? However, most religions would have us believe that life is more than just a new gene code, so "from conception onward" doesn't really work that well there.

I don't think abortion should be used as a method of birth control. However, chimpanzees display a higher degree of conciousness and self-awareness, demonstrate far superior intelligence, demonstrate a far wider range of emotions, and possess a greater ability to understand and speak the languages of humans(both spoken and sign) than unborn children, particularly one's in the earlier stages of pregnancy. Are we to believe that a being that can speak several hundred words of spoken English, sign several thousand words of American Sign Language, can not only display but also comprehend the idea of love, can build tools, can name people, locations, and objects, and is concious of the fact that it is alive has fewer rights than a collection of several thousand-million cells?

I don't favor abortion, but I've yet to hear a convincing argument about when life starts from either side. In fact, I've yet to hear a convincing argument about what exactly life itself is.

And if we're going to be anti-abortion, I think we have to be anti-death penalty. Murderers should be imprisoned, to be sure, but who the heck said that we have the right to selectively kill? The two issues go hand in hand, as the logic used in both is strikingly similar.

But again, I am very anti-abortion as a means of birth control. Are there exceptions? Of course. American law is built on exceptions-just look at the two clauses in the First Amendment regarding freedom of religion; those clauses are built to protect the minority of cases.

That was the whole logic behind a federal republic-it would be harder to oppress the few.

Anyways, maybe more to come later. By the way, I kind of want to talk about the chimps thing. Have a good one all, and just some thoughts...

[farmgirl]

Well said, Tane, but what are you thinking..... how can you inject logic into the thread??? ;)


regarding your opening comment.....

One thing I love about this forum: One can go away for a few months and find that we all are exactly the same; same opinions, same topics of argument, same logic (some good, some bad).

It's sort of like a soap opera in that regard is it not? p-)

[Tane Angle]

My gosh farmgirl, you have an amazing reaction time with your PMs. :D

[farmgirl]

My gosh farmgirl, you have an amazing reaction time with your PMs. :D

Not with everyone.... I'm just stalking you..... p-) ;)

[memphiz]

Hey Tane, are you back from "the sandbox" or are you still there? how was/is it there?

[Tane Angle]

Well, apparently my food reviews never made it into any of the newspapers back home. :( I will keep trying bud, thanks for asking.

[Jack Mehoff]

Damn Tane, you should be home fly fishing and playing with your grand kids, not in Iraq working in the sandbox.

[memphiz]

Well, apparently my food reviews never made it into any of the newspapers back home. :( I will keep trying bud, thanks for asking.
Aw that sucks.
Food reviews....are you reviewing military food, or resturaunts over there?





I have a sneaky suspicsion 'food box' is code for somthing

[Tane Angle]

What!?!? I have grandkids! Why am I always the last to know about these things?! <faints> :D

No sweat, Jack, I'm just pushing my little Tonka trucks and action figures around with the other kids.

[Maine Finn]

What!?!? I have grandkids! Why am I always the last to know about these things?! <faints> :D

No sweat, Jack, I'm just pushing my little Tonka trucks and action figures around with the other kids.

rofl

As long as you're having fun! :D

[Haiw]

Damn, I wish I thought of the chimp stuff. :D
Chimps are smart, actually they even understand abstract expressions, and they can actually communicate with humans. The only reason they can't talk is because they lack the organs to produce the proper sounds.
The only occasion where the chimp comparison gets... problematic is that chimps could actually be superior in some ways to some retarded people (no offense).

BTW Tane Angle, isn't the soon-to-be-married pair gonna be working on those grandchildren for you soon? :D

[Fintin]

hey Tane...stay safe, thanks for looking out for me....it means alot

[Tane Angle]

Anytime, fintin, I mean it.

Haiw, we've actually seen chimps speak a vocubulary of roughly 250 words. It's nearly all monosyllabic (an awesome word, if there ever was one) words, like "ma," "pa," "yes," and "no." But they can actually speak them. Beyond that, it doesn't look physically possible for them to ****ounce those words, though they can grasp them and say them with sign language.

By the way, Neandertals are even more interesting than chimps-there is no indication that Neandertals-a different species from humans-did not have a spoken language. Indeed, neurogically, mentally, and physically speaking, there is indication that, placed in society today, they could not converse fully in English. They had religion-a belief in an afterlife and there is a strong indication that they also believed in a Supreme Being, music, relatively advanced mathematics, a highly-developed society, and relatively advanced technology. Now the question is, would it be ok to kill Neandertals? They were never us, and were were never them....

Yeah, ok, I love talking about this philosophy stuff. :D Have a good one all, and just some thoughts...

[radon]

It's all about our convenient, throw away modern society. All this while millions are spent on "designer" babies - surrogate mothers, in-vitro etc. And we wonder why kids have low self esteem. Our society assigns no value to them, well, until they have some disposable income to spend.

Babies/children are kept more in value than ever before. Before there were all sorts of abortiom methods. And in history children were also killed AFTER they were born as a method of "abortion". And about child mortality, what was once the normal case , is seen as a the worst possible catastrophy today. The fact is today people in rich westerm countries value life more than ever before. This abortion issue is certainly not caused by the "modern throw away" society. Thing werent too much different before.

[Tane Angle]

By the way, designer babies, while having lots to do with gender determining, have nothing to do with surrogate mothers and IVF.

[Seoulstriker]

How do you select the correct haploid gametes to be paired together to get the designer baby if no genetic engineering is inolved, much less IVF?

[Tane Angle]

Designer babies denotes-perhaps not accurately, but denotes nonetheless-more selective breeding for superior traits beyond that of surviving implantation. Yes, that involves IVF, but most IVFs do not involved such selective breeding. No? How are things over there? Hope well. Have a good one, bud.

[mocking_loudly_died]

Am I going to heaven uncle tane?

[Seoulstriker]

So designer babies are based upon a cross-bred line of gametes from several individuals in order to select the traits by standard mendellian genetics? I was under the impression that either the gametes themselves were modified somehow with recombinant DNA so that each gamete of the future diploid cell would have exactly the traits that would want to be selected, so that when the gametes are combined, there would be the so-called "designer baby".

I was under the impression that we are still many years away from getting designer babies as we are still cataloguing the transcriptome and proteome. Unless designer babies are from existing lines of cross-bred gametes... Determining the *** of the future child is very simple, though, as you just find the right *** chromosomes in each gamete and then join them and then IVF.

Just some thoughts. Have a good one too, Tane.

[EvanL]

Pfft this thread title is a joke.. women dont have rights. ;)









Uh oh...




Slash!!!!!




There goes my left nut :cantbeli:

[born_to_kill]

woman are here to cook and look good doing it

can i hear an amen?

womans right = oxymoron :P

jk

[Maine Finn]

woman are here to cook and look good doing it

can i hear an amen?

womans right = oxymoron :P

jk

That's not really all that funny. :|

[born_to_kill]

i just wanted to fit in :(

[Maine Finn]

i just wanted to fit in :(

An admirable goal, to be sure. But you're not doing a very good job of it, really. Try a different tack than the one you're using.

[Jack Mehoff]

Womens Rights

Go make me a sandwich!!!

[ibstolidude]

So designer babies are based upon a cross-bred line of gametes from several individuals in order to select the traits by standard mendellian genetics? I was under the impression that either the gametes themselves were modified somehow with recombinant DNA so that each gamete of the future diploid cell would have exactly the traits that would want to be selected, so that when the gametes are combined, there would be the so-called "designer baby".

If the correct haploozzy gamajobber to together with the enginewhatsa for the ivf, then isn't it obvious?

huh? wha?


All I know is - Womens rights and mens wrongs... just ask any of 'em, they'll tell ya'; any questions?

[EvanL]

If storks bring babies, what would happen if a man had *** with a stork?

[FallenAngel]

Womens Rights

Go make me a sandwich!!!

Amen Jack.

http://bitchmakemeasandwich.com/

Maine Finn...you're not a feminist are you? :roll:

[EvanL]

Womens Rights

Go make me a sandwich!!!

Amen Jack.

http://bitchmakemeasandwich.com/

Maine Finn...you're not a feminist are you? :roll:
Your not a demon are ya fentin?

[Maine Finn]

Womens Rights

Go make me a sandwich!!!

Amen Jack.

http://bitchmakemeasandwich.com/

Maine Finn...you're not a feminist are you? :roll:

I'm not anything but a dirt poor college student.

[basket of soft kittens]

geez women= blah blah blah !!

man heir always complaining what next , they going to want the right to vote. pffft

[Haiw]

By the way, Neandertals are even more interesting than chimps-there is no indication that Neandertals-a different species from humans-did not have a spoken language. Indeed, neurogically, mentally, and physically speaking, there is indication that, placed in society today, they could not converse fully in English. They had religion-a belief in an afterlife and there is a strong indication that they also believed in a Supreme Being, music, relatively advanced mathematics, a highly-developed society, and relatively advanced technology. Now the question is, would it be ok to kill Neandertals? They were never us, and were were never them....
Or...if a homo sapiens woman would be pregnant from a Neanderthaler.. what then? ;)

[Trigger]

ibstolidude wrote:

All I know is - Womens rights and mens wrongs... just ask any of 'em, they'll tell ya'; any questions?

Yeah, like Eddie Murphy said:
"What are they complaining about?...They got half the money and all the pu**y!" p-)

[HELEX]

http://images.ucomics.com/comics/tt/2004/tt040427.gif

[UkrainianAmerican]

woman are here to cook and look good doing it

can i hear an amen?

womans right = oxymoron :P

jk
Amen.

[EvanL]

woman are here to cook and look good doing it

can i hear an amen?

womans right = oxymoron :P

jk
Amen.
And that is why you have no girlfriend.
Cheers :D :D :D :D :D

[JiJoMacLE45]

A women has the right to make me a sandwich and if she doesn't like that to get the hell out and send her sister over. I'm just kidding ladies. I'll make my own sandwich, by the way do you want too, and then I'll rub your feet.

[ibstolidude]

A women has the right to make me a sandwich and if she doesn't like that to get the hell out and send her sister over. I'm just kidding ladies. I'll make my own sandwich, by the way do you want too, and then I'll rub your feet.
You should reverse the order - then you get revenge when they wonder why the turkey smells funky.

[UkrainianAmerican]

woman are here to cook and look good doing it

can i hear an amen?

womans right = oxymoron :P

jk
Amen.
And that is why you have no girlfriend.
Cheers :D :D :D :D :D
I get temporary ones (aka BITCHes) in clubs tho. My weiner is satisfied, regardless. :)

[gaz]

I get temporary ones (aka BITCHes) in clubs tho.

I joyously look forward to the day you post about getting your balls kicked up between your ears by a girl who heard you call her a "bitch".

It's gonna make me laugh.

[farmgirl]

ibstolidude wrote:

All I know is - Womens rights and mens wrongs... just ask any of 'em, they'll tell ya'; any questions?

Yeah, like Eddie Murphy said:
"What are they complaining about?...They got half the money and all the pu**y!" p-)


I've always espoused the theory that what's mine is mine and what's his is mine.... ;) However, Eddie does have a point.... p-)

[Nawlins]

ibstolidude wrote:

All I know is - Womens rights and mens wrongs... just ask any of 'em, they'll tell ya'; any questions?

Yeah, like Eddie Murphy said:
"What are they complaining about?...They got half the money and all the pu**y!" p-)


I've always espoused the theory that what's mine is mine and what's his is mine.... ;) However, Eddie does have a point.... p-)

Yeah... but all the good stuff was mine anyway. p-)

[farmgirl]

ibstolidude wrote:

All I know is - Womens rights and mens wrongs... just ask any of 'em, they'll tell ya'; any questions?

Yeah, like Eddie Murphy said:
"What are they complaining about?...They got half the money and all the pu**y!" p-)


I've always espoused the theory that what's mine is mine and what's his is mine.... ;) However, Eddie does have a point.... p-)

Yeah... but all the good stuff was mine anyway. p-)


Exactly.... isn't that always the way it works? ;)