Who will be the next president of Russia?

[Izverg]

Who will become the successor of Vladimir Putin?
There are two most probable candidates:

Current Minister of Devense Sergei Ivanov
http://www.politirkutsk.ru/data/upimages/expert/ivanov.jpg

or

http://www.vzglyad.ru/upimg/43441.jpg
Dmitry Medvedev - deputy prime minister of the Russian government

Personally i suppose more likely that will be Medvedev:)

[Flamming_Python]

I don't really like either.

[Izverg]

I don't really like either.
Who do yo like? Zyuganov? Zhirinovsky?:)

[Snoshi]

Who do yo like? Zyuganov? Zhirinovsky?:)

Personally i hate Ivanov.. He failed hes job as DM.

Medvedev is not worth the place..

Both of them will be Putins minions.

[Flamming_Python]

Personally i hate Ivanov.. He failed hes job as DM.

Medvedev is not worth the place..

Both of them will be Putins minions.

Ivanov is a failure and Medvedev advocates neo-liberal policies, which I detest. I don't know much about the leader of Fair Russia (Spravedlivaya Rossiya), Sergy Mironov, but I see him as the only real alternative.


Who do yo like? Zyuganov? Zhirinovsky?:)

Oh yeah... I love them :| rofl

[Rictor]

I don't know about internally, but externally Ivanonv has had a lot more media exposure. He is a more familiar figure to foreigners than Medvedev. And this grooming process, placing Ivanov in important places at just the right time, makes it seem as if Putin is planning to sponsor him as the next Prez.

We'll see. Personally, I'd like Zhirinovsky or Limonov to come out from nowhere and win the elections - just to see the general chaos that would ensue. Now THAT would be cool.

[Flamming_Python]

I don't know about internally, but externally Ivanonv has had a lot more media exposure. He is a more familiar figure to foreigners than Medvedev. And this grooming process, placing Ivanov in important places at just the right time, makes it seem as if Putin is planning to sponsor him as the next Prez.

Internally they both have about the same air-time, from what I heard. Ivanov was recently promoted, so he is now in a position equal to Medvedev.


We'll see. Personally, I'd like Zhirinovsky or Limonov to come out from nowhere and win the elections - just to see the general chaos that would ensue. Now THAT would be cool.

No thankyou :D

[Flamming_Python]

Anyway, we all know the real anwser:

http://www.youtube.com/v/s5691LvuBOY

[Snoshi]

After the Ivanovs horrible attempt to save hes face when he dealt with the boy that was beaten in army i dont see any of the parents voting for him.

[BCE_CYKU]

can someone enlighten me how Ivanov failed?

about the boy in the army, what does Ivanov have to do with that? He cant control every moron serving in the army, that incident has to be blamed on society, on the people themselves, the level to which the soldiers have degraded themselves

[daily666]

Anyway, we all know the real anwser:

http://www.youtube.com/v/s5691LvuBOY

rofl rofl rofl buhahahahahah lovely.

If I were Russian I'd go for Putin for the next term.

[Atlantic Friend]

Who will become the successor of Vladimir Putin?


What about Putin himself ?

[Red Craiola]

What about Putin himself ?

Putin the third sounds good...

[Mamont]

:) Imagine western histeria if this happens..

[Dzich]

I like this:
http://lukashenko2008.ru/ (sorry, in russian only, but the title tells the main idea)
I hope my full of love Russia-strong!11 friends will comment this masterpiece.
To tell the truth, there is the only one russian politician I remember that sound like he is relatively honest, serious and reliable. His name is Grigory Javlinsky.

[BCE_CYKU]

I can just imagine, Putin would be called a dictator :)

but the fact is most of the population wants him to stay, in fact I've heard that around 50% will vote for his successor regardless of who he is

[Breakfast in Vegas]

The best guy would be Putin... but I doubt he'll manipulate his way into a third term. He's spoken against the idea so often, he almost seems determined to leave.

Hope whoever his successor is doesn't pizdets the whole thing.

[Flamming_Python]

I can just imagine, Putin would be called a dictator :)

but the fact is most of the population wants him to stay, in fact I've heard that around 50% will vote for his successor regardless of who he is

Relax, Russia will be called a dictatorship after the 2008 election, no matter what actually happens :)


The best guy would be Putin... but I doubt he'll manipulate his way into a third term. He's spoken against the idea so often, he almost seems determined to leave.

Hope whoever his successor is doesn't pizdets the whole thing.

Yeah I share your thoughts p-)

But on the other hand I think Russia should experiment with some of its policies. Particularly in the relations between Russia and the rest of the ex-Soviet republics.

And in terms of domestic matters, many ideas and changes can also be implemented for the better.

A new president with a fresh perspective can offer all this, but perhaps at the cost of stability.

[Amerikosskiy_xyu]

I vote Hannibal for president.


http://img406.imageshack.us/img406/8376/suworryqt4.jpg

[Meteor]

Putin will be hard to replace. :petting:
He`s an intelligent person,charismatic and a true son of Mother Russia.
All he`s actions were in the interest of the russian people.

[sferrin]

:) Imagine western histeria if this happens..

Probably no louder than Russia's if Bush were able to go for a 3rd term.

[Mamont]

Probably no louder than Russia's if Bush were able to go for a 3rd term.
You'we got to be kidding. Everyone will be delighted by that event. I can only hope that following fights with terror/for freedom wouldl took place in US.

[sferrin]

You'we got to be kidding. Everyone will be delighted by that event. I can only hope that following fights with terror/for freedom wouldl took place in US.

Wanna try that again in English this time?

[Jobu]

Putin should just clone himself so he can let #2 be dictator (since there are no worthy successors as you all say) while he enjoys the rest of his life.

[KMS]

Probably no louder than Russia's if Bush were able to go for a 3rd term.

The difference is that Putin has 80% approval rating and Bush's is below 30%.
During his 2 terms Putin has brought Russia back from the abyss while Bush turned USA into a joke...
In a nutshell, from a business perspective, Putin is an EXCELLENT crysis manager, at the same time I highly doubt that Bush would be able to run profitably McDonalds on a college campus.

As for his successor - most likely none of the mentioned above, it will be someone new and unknown, someone not stained by politics. My money would be on someone from FSB or SVR.

2008 elections will be very straight forward: whoever Putin endorses - wins.
Now 2012 will be very interesting: will he come back or stay away? I think it largely depends on the situation in Russia.

USA had FDR
Russia has Putin

[Doublethinker]

Putin will be hard to replace. :petting:
He`s an intelligent person,charismatic and a true son of Mother Russia.
All he`s actions were in the interest of the russian people.

What's that, some weird sort of a joke?

And we don't repeat "Mother Russia" all the time like idiots.

[Doublethinker]

Wanna try that again in English this time?

Do you happen to be switek's second personality by any chance? :roll:

[Doublethinker]

I hope Putin and his clique are finally overthrown in 2008, so that some real elections can take place. That might actually work if oil prices fall just before that.

[Izverg]

Putin shreds Bush lol
http://youtube.com/v/1VJwn-At244

[Izverg]

I hope Putin and his clique are finally overthrown in 2008, so that some real elections can take place. That might actually work if oil prices fall just before that.
FAQ!!!! How dare you to talk like that about their president?? Who the fvck are you??? In fact Putin can stay even for 10th term, if the russians like him!!!

[Doublethinker]

FAQ!!!! How dare you to talk like that about their president?? Who the fvck are you??? In fact Putin can stay even for 10th term, if the russians like him!!!

I'm Russian myself. And I actually live in Russia, unlike most of those who speak here on behalf of Russia and Russians.

[Izverg]

I'm Russian myself. And I actually live in Russia, unlike most of those who speak here on behalf of Russia and Russians.
Russian or jew?

[Switek]

Do you happen to be switek's second personality by any chance? :roll:

GOOD ONE! rofl rofl rofl

[Doublethinker]

Russian or jew?

If I meant "jew", I would say "jew".

[Izverg]

If I meant "jew", I would say "jew".
Chto zhe ti tak Putina ne lyubish?:)

[Doublethinker]

Chto zhe ti tak Putina ne lyubish?:)

Potomu chto on mudak, kak i ty, yobanniy sovok.

[Izverg]

Potomu chto on mudak, kak i ty, yobanniy sovok.
Vot izza takih dolboebov kak ti Rossiya seichas v derme. Zasun sebe svoe liberalno-progressivnoe mishleniye v zhopu.

[Doublethinker]

Vot izza takih dolboebov kak ti Rossiya seichas v derme. Zasun sebe svoe liberalno-progressivnoe mishleniye v zhopu.

Judging by how much bullsh!t you are ready to take from your "dear leader", you are much more prepared for that.

Ready, steady, go!

PS: Oh wait, you are not even living in Russia. Lol, why am I even talking to you ;)

[Switek]

go guys, go! Interestig dispute. High level of wisdom and competences... ;)

[Flamming_Python]

Russian or jew?

:bash:

Don't be a debil

[Izverg]

Judging by how much bullsh!t you are ready to take from your "dear leader", you are much more prepared for that.

Ready, steady, go!

PS: Oh wait, you are not even living in Russia. Lol, why am I even talking to you ;)
OK Enough of flame! What real alternative do you see instead of him? Zyuga? Or halt life alky and troop of aligarchs like in good old days?

[Izverg]

:bash:

Don't be a debil
FAQ gnida porhataya!!!!!:-*$

[Izverg]

go guys, go! Interestig dispute. High level of wisdom and competences... ;)
Anyway more competent then you!

[Doublethinker]

FAQ gnida porhataya!!!!!:-*$

You sound like a twelve-year-old. Or like a real Russian patriot p-)

[Mamont]

Doublethinker, you're simply wrong. Nothing more. And comment with "mudak" and "sovok" really uncovers who you are. Or more precisely what russian are you for real.

[Snoshi]

Doublethinker, you're simply wrong. Nothing more. And comment with "mudak" and "sovok" really uncovers who you are. Or more precisely what russian are you for real.

Uncovers who he is?

Izverg made an racist comment towards a person that lives in Russia..

[Mamont]

From the comment i understand that he is too young to understand what life in SU was nor he has any experience with it. That's all. So stupid comment stating "sovok" i find rather harsh, biased and overly childish.

[Doublethinker]

Doublethinker, you're simply wrong. Nothing more. And comment with "mudak" and "sovok" really uncovers who you are. Or more precisely what russian are you for real.

Cool. So what Russian am I? Or oh my god, did he guess right? Am I a j00w?!?!

No, sorry to disappoint you. My name is Pavel Trushin, my mother is half-Ukrainian, half-Russian, my father is Russian with some influx of caucasian (as far as I remember, Georgian, I think) blood somewhere. I have neither the ties with the j00s, nor with oligarchs, nor with j00wish oligarchs, since I work as a manager in a translation bureau. My business is 100% legal and doesn't deal with oil, media or anything.

Now that's what you wanted to know about ME and what kind of a Russian I am. I'm the kind of Russian, who lives in Russia, speaks Russian, thinks Russian and actually shares a COMMON fate with the Russian people. Unlike you, guys. You flew to the West to drink bear and eat bavarian sausages when the times were tough, and you know what: I don't mind, and I don't care. But for some reason you think that you can speak on OUR behalf and tell US what to do in OUR country with OUR lives, though you won't actually try and come to reap the harvest of decisions of "dear leaders" over here. Its really so well and dandy to praise Mother Russia's greatness, especially when you fart around in New York, not having to deal with the CONSEQUENCES of such irresponsible, stupid, close-minded and ignorant actions like that of mr. Putin.

You weren't the ones to be blown up in metro, WE were. My brother was 5 minutes too late to get caught up with the explosion near Rizhskaya. It is US not YOU who bear the brunt of this fake and hollow "greatness", doing the best we can to make ends meet while Putin arranges another brilliant gambit in Ukraine, Byelorussia, Serbia or some other sh!thole instead of addresing the REAL problems.

You aren't Russian, you are neither here nor there. Already not Russians, but definitely not the citizens of the countries you reside in, because of evident double loyalties.

As for sovok, this term was coined especially in order to lable such residue from the Soviet epoch, like our little friend over there in LIEPAIA, protecting Russian greatness and putin's regime while living as far as possible from its dear embrace, i.e. hypocritial loudmouths.

I rest my case.

[Switek]

Doublethinker, if I ever hurt you or offended I really regret this and, please accept my apologies...

Your statement was really impressive and brave. Respect!

[Xaito]

Id like to see Putin on another term as I think he is an intelligent man and did a good job imo.
By the way I am thinking about returning to Russia in the future - if the next presidents don't break Russia again that is.

[Xaito]

http://www.youtube.com/v/CXtb1eXohUg
english subtitled version of the great putin song ;)

[asch]

Cool. So what Russian am I? Or oh my god, did he guess right? Am I a j00w?!?!

No, sorry to disappoint you. My name is Pavel Trushin, my mother is half-Ukrainian, half-Russian, my father is Russian with some influx of caucasian (as far as I remember, Georgian, I think) blood somewhere. I have neither the ties with the j00s, nor with oligarchs, nor with j00wish oligarchs, since I work as a manager in a translation bureau. My business is 100% legal and doesn't deal with oil, media or anything.

Now that's what you wanted to know about ME and what kind of a Russian I am. I'm the kind of Russian, who lives in Russia, speaks Russian, thinks Russian and actually shares a COMMON fate with the Russian people. Unlike you, guys. You flew to the West to drink bear and eat bavarian sausages when the times were tough, and you know what: I don't mind, and I don't care. But for some reason you think that you can speak on OUR behalf and tell US what to do in OUR country with OUR lives, though you won't actually try and come to reap the harvest of decisions of "dear leaders" over here. Its really so well and dandy to praise Mother Russia's greatness, especially when you fart around in New York, not having to deal with the CONSEQUENCES of such irresponsible, stupid, close-minded and ignorant actions like that of mr. Putin.

You weren't the ones to be blown up in metro, WE were. My brother was 5 minutes too late to get caught up with the explosion near Rizhskaya. It is US not YOU who bear the brunt of this fake and hollow "greatness", doing the best we can to make ends meet while Putin arranges another brilliant gambit in Ukraine, Byelorussia, Serbia or some other sh!thole instead of addresing the REAL problems.

You aren't Russian, you are neither here nor there. Already not Russians, but definitely not the citizens of the countries you reside in, because of evident double loyalties.

As for sovok, this term was coined especially in order to lable such residue from the Soviet epoch, like our little friend over there in LIEPAIA, protecting Russian greatness and putin's regime while living as far as possible from its dear embrace, i.e. hypocritial loudmouths.

I rest my case.
very touching. p-)
problem with you that people of your kind is a rare enough ocassion here. overwhelming majority think otherwise, and that's a sign that Russia is going different way. you can leave the ship if you don't like direction, eh?

[Xaito]

maybe Germany and Russia will fuse together to one country with Putin as new president and Merkel will get a good position in Gasprom ;)
Putin can speak german and Merkel is from the GDR afterall - those two are up to something :P
http://img406.imageshack.us/img406/7885/diekanzlerinmitpraesidepw5.jpg

[Sergei]

Cool. So what Russian am I? Or oh my god, did he guess right? Am I a j00w?!?!

No, sorry to disappoint you. My name is Pavel Trushin, my mother is half-Ukrainian, half-Russian, my father is Russian with some influx of caucasian (as far as I remember, Georgian, I think) blood somewhere. I have neither the ties with the j00s, nor with oligarchs, nor with j00wish oligarchs, since I work as a manager in a translation bureau. My business is 100% legal and doesn't deal with oil, media or anything.

Now that's what you wanted to know about ME and what kind of a Russian I am. I'm the kind of Russian, who lives in Russia, speaks Russian, thinks Russian and actually shares a COMMON fate with the Russian people. Unlike you, guys. You flew to the West to drink bear and eat bavarian sausages when the times were tough, and you know what: I don't mind, and I don't care. But for some reason you think that you can speak on OUR behalf and tell US what to do in OUR country with OUR lives, though you won't actually try and come to reap the harvest of decisions of "dear leaders" over here. Its really so well and dandy to praise Mother Russia's greatness, especially when you fart around in New York, not having to deal with the CONSEQUENCES of such irresponsible, stupid, close-minded and ignorant actions like that of mr. Putin.

You weren't the ones to be blown up in metro, WE were. My brother was 5 minutes too late to get caught up with the explosion near Rizhskaya. It is US not YOU who bear the brunt of this fake and hollow "greatness", doing the best we can to make ends meet while Putin arranges another brilliant gambit in Ukraine, Byelorussia, Serbia or some other sh!thole instead of addresing the REAL problems.

You aren't Russian, you are neither here nor there. Already not Russians, but definitely not the citizens of the countries you reside in, because of evident double loyalties.

As for sovok, this term was coined especially in order to lable such residue from the Soviet epoch, like our little friend over there in LIEPAIA, protecting Russian greatness and putin's regime while living as far as possible from its dear embrace, i.e. hypocritial loudmouths.

I rest my case.

For a 22 year old you are too freely lashing the word "sovok" around. What would you know about that? Are you some kind of underage retard or something, sniffing glue while being young or taking drugs? You automatically decided to paint people over 30 with the same brush did you?

The problem is, with your loud mouth and youthful exhuberance, all kinds of switeks-russophobes come in and start to applaud your stupidity.

[Durandal]

Russian or jew?

AH yes, its responses like this that give me great hop for Russia.


I think 8 years fro now we will have coined the phrase "Putinism".

[Doublethinker]

Doublethinker, if I ever hurt you or offended I really regret this and, please accept my apologies...

Your statement was really impressive and brave. Respect!

That's ok =)

[Doublethinker]

Id like to see Putin on another term as I think he is an intelligent man and did a good job imo.
By the way I am thinking about returning to Russia in the future - if the next presidents don't break Russia again that is.

Oh but of course, being a Russian patriot means staying whenever you feel like it and leaving whenever you don't like something p-)

[Doublethinker]

very touching. p-)


Why thank you.



problem with you that people of your kind is a rare enough ocassion here. overwhelming majority think otherwise, and that's a sign that Russia is going different way. you can leave the ship if you don't like direction, eh?

You don't seem to get it, do you? This is MY country. And that says it all.

[Doublethinker]

For a 22 year old you are too freely lashing the word "sovok" around. What would you know about that?


I've been around, you know. It suits him quite well. Besides, this is the only time I've used this word, so I see no reason for your hysteria.



Are you some kind of underage retard or something, sniffing glue while being young or taking drugs? You automatically decided to paint people over 30 with the same brush did you?


You seem to smoke crack a lot yourself. Very Twisted logic in that nice little post over there.



The problem is, with your loud mouth and youthful exhuberance, all kinds of switeks-russophobes come in and start to applaud your stupidity.

Looks like I hit two rabbits with one shot p-)

Cheers.

[Xaito]

Oh but of course, being a Russian patriot means staying whenever you feel like it and leaving whenever you don't like something p-)

you don't know **** about me and talk like a wise ass.
I was 7 years old when my parents took me with them to Germany so I didn't really have a choice. Maybe your parents would have done the same if they had the opportunity. Just for your infomation: my parents were the one who lost the most by doing so.
Besides its not about patriotism for me - call me an egoist but I value myself more then I value any country - so in the decitions I will make (not unlike the decitions of my parents) I come first and then comes the country.

[perdurabo]

maybe Germany and Russia will fuse together to one country with Putin as new president and Merkel will get a good position in Gasprom ;)
Putin can speak german and Merkel is from the GDR afterall - those two are up to something :P
http://img406.imageshack.us/img406/7885/diekanzlerinmitpraesidepw5.jpg
you forgot that beatwin those two countries there are few others,one that is quite often forgotten p-)

[Xaito]

you forgot that beatwin those two countries there are few others,one that is quite often forgotten p-)

we don't need a geographical connection between the two parts of the new country - we are connected physically by pipelines - like a mother and her baby ;)

[Flamming_Python]

we don't need a geographical connection between the two parts of the new country - we are connected physically by pipelines - like a mother and her baby ;)

:|

..........

[redfox0035]

AH yes, its responses like this that give me great hop for Russia. I think 8 years fro now we will have coined the phrase "Putinism".

Elaborate this please.

[Xaito]

:|

..........

what exactly do you want to tell us?

[Wiseman]

I left Russia not on my will but because my parents took me when I was 8 to the United States. Does this make me some sort of ****bag too? Stop making accusations, since you don't know the background of most people on here.

[Banko]

OK Enough of flame! What real alternative do you see instead of him? Zyuga? Or halt life alky and troop of aligarchs like in good old days?
Stop taking it out on other people just because your family failed at life in the 90's.

[asch]

You don't seem to get it, do you? This is MY country. And that says it all.
always thought that this is OUR country. you know, a freakin' lot of people. and a course of country will chosen by majority, not some unsatisfied guys.
no offence, of course.

[Doublethinker]

always thought that this is OUR country.


Exactly. That is why I don't see the reason, why someone would tell me to leave it, just because our opinions don't coincide.

Democracy isn't only about the rule of majority but also the respect of the rights of minority to have its own opinion.





you know, a freakin' lot of people. and a course of country will chosen by majority, not some unsatisfied guys.


Time will tell. Usually, during troubled times, it is a very small percent of population that actually decides the fate of the nation. In Russia, that is.



no offence, of course.

None taken.

[Doublethinker]

I left Russia not on my will but because my parents took me when I was 8 to the United States. Does this make me some sort of ****bag too? Stop making accusations, since you don't know the background of most people on here.

I wasn't painting anyone as scumbags in here.

But you have to agree with two things:

1.If you never even lived Russia, you don't know a thing about it, only what your parents/friends/TV told you.

2. You aren't sharing the same fate with the Russian nation, thus you simply have no moral right to tell us what to do with our country AND our lives simply because you are an outsider, even moreso you have no moral right to speak on behalf of Russians just because of your ethnic roots - and that doesn't matter, what made you an outsider, be it your parents or your own free will.

It's just the same as with Bush who keeps saying: "Russia must do this, Russia mustn't do that". We will decide without Bush AND without you, guys.

[Herrmannek]

Does it really matter? Anyone who will sit in that chair will be active KGB agent serving to the service rather than the people :)

[Xaito]

But you have to agree with two things:

1.If you never even lived Russia, you don't know a thing about it, only what your parents/friends/TV told you.

2. You aren't sharing the same fate with the Russian nation, thus you simply have no moral right to tell us what to do with our country AND our lives simply because you are an outsider, even moreso you have no moral right to speak on behalf of Russians just because of your ethnic roots - and that doesn't matter, what made you an outsider, be it your parents or your own free will.

It's just the same as with Bush who keeps saying: "Russia must do this, Russia mustn't do that". We will decide without Bush AND without you, guys.

I disagree.
1. I lived in Russia for 7 years as a kid and have visited it several times afterwards and am going to visit it in the future - furthermore I have lots of family and family friends who are living in Russia - including people in positions where I'm sure they know a few things more then you about Russia.
Again don't try to make us look as if we severed our ties with Russia and don't know a thing living in our exile or something.

2. I am a citizen of Russia living outside of Russia - I have the russian citizenship.
By living outside or Russia I lose some duties as citizen including paying taxes, serving in the military etc but also lose some priviliges like voting so I can't give my approval to the government officially.
But I'm still 100% Russian, I share the fate of the country (there could be a time where Russia calls back its citizens for example)
and I have no more and no less moral right to speak for Russia then any Russian - including you.

Also I'd like to add that we had a good life in Russia - its not like we ran away from trouble.
So please just stop your bs already.

[TheArmenian]

This is my humble opinion about this subject:

-If you live in your country (Russia or otherwise) you are not automatically a patriot.

-If you live outside your country (for wathever reason) you ties to your country of origin are not automatically severed.

Fatherland, motherland, ancestor's land (or whatever you want to call it) is not necessarily the soil your feet are touching, but WHERE YOUR HEART TRUELY IS.

[Doublethinker]

This is my humble opinion about this subject:

-If you live in your country (Russia or otherwise) you are not automatically a patriot.

-If you live outside your country (for wathever reason) you ties to your country of origin are not automatically severed.
.

For Christ's sake, just take a moment to put some thinking into what I'm writing.

I'm not talking of patriotism:

Unlike those who like to leave their "heart" lying elsewhere while living in a completely different place, we citizens of Russia residing in Russia have to cope with the results of actions of our leaders.

It really is EASY to be a patriot if you aren't living here. Hey, I can play the role of a patriot of North Korea. Why not? I'm also a patriot of Cuba. And Afghanistan. And Mao's regime. Really easy, you see?

Besides, there is a great difference between feeling affection for your original country and feeling affection for its ruling regime. First is understandable, but second seems simply hypocritical.

[Doublethinker]

I disagree.
1. I lived in Russia for 7 years as a kid and have visited it several times afterwards and am going to visit it in the future - furthermore I have lots of family and family friends who are living in Russia - including people in positions where I'm sure they know a few things more then you about Russia.
Again don't try to make us look as if we severed our ties with Russia and don't know a thing living in our exile or something.


Yeah, right. What's the price of a loaf of bread in Moscow? How much does a bottle of vodka cost? What's the price of a ride in the Moscow subway? Where are most of cultural events for the young are held? Of course, you can ring up one of your friends and ask, but in reality, you just don't know the answer.

You are EXCLUDED from the life of this country and its people.



2. I am a citizen of Russia living outside of Russia - I have the russian citizenship.
By living outside or Russia I lose some duties as citizen including paying taxes, serving in the military etc but also lose some priviliges like voting so I can't give my approval to the government officially.
But I'm still 100% Russian, I share the fate of the country (there could be a time where Russia calls back its citizens for example)
and I have no more and no less moral right to speak for Russia then any Russian - including you.


You are living in a different economical and different political environment only paying visits to Moscow from time to time, but you honestly believe that you have as much moral right to express your opinion about the regime as I do?!

Ridiculous.



Also I'd like to add that we had a good life in Russia - its not like we ran away from trouble.

I never stated something contrary to this.

[Doublethinker]

Does it really matter? Anyone who will sit in that chair will be active KGB agent serving to the service rather than the people :)

KGB never had any real influence on politics even in the USSR after Beriya was killed, left alone in modern Russia.

Andropov tried to revive the KGB, but was too late to be successful. Thus KGB didn't even get to say much on the dissolution of the USSR.

It's all western demonization, KGB never played a serious role in politics after Stalin. They were nothing more than executors of the will of the Soviet bureaucracy.

[Switek]

ok then, who will be the president of Russia or which one of those two (Ivanov, Medvedev) would be better?

[Doublethinker]

ok then, who will be the president of Russia or which one of those two (Ivanov, Medvedev) would be better?

Doesn't really make a difference.

Evil twins.

I can only say, that Ivanov is much more disgusting due to his comments on the hazing in the Russian army.

Only revolution will save Russia from this corrupted regime.

[Switek]

Doesn't really make a difference.

Evil twins.

I can only say, that Ivanov is much more disgusting due to his comments on the hazing in the Russian army.

Only revolution will save Russia from this corrupted regime.

Similar thoughts about those two.

But I don't get this: what revolution?

[Doublethinker]

Similar thoughts about those two.

But I don't get this: what revolution?

Well, you know, similar to what they had in Ukraine and what they tried in Byelorussia.

[Switek]

Well, you know, similar to what they had in Ukraine and what they tried in Byelorussia.

after one year spended on mp.net and hundreds of my posts arguing with "Russia Strong" crewmen I first time I can hear those words...

I get it ... and wish all Russians good luck

[TheArmenian]

For Christ's sake, just take a moment to put some thinking into what I'm writing.

I was not replying to your post(s). Don't jump to conclusions.


we citizens of Russia residing in Russia have to cope with the results of actions of our leaders.


Of course you have to cope with the actions of your leaders. YOU are the ones who elected them, not the Russians who live abroad.


It really is EASY to be a patriot if you aren't living here

How can you say that? You have not lived abroad. You don't even understand how difficult it is to be a patriot residing in a foreign land.


Hey, I can play the role of a patriot of North Korea. Why not? I'm also a patriot of Cuba. And Afghanistan. And Mao's regime. Really easy, you see?

Now you are being sarcastic or absurd. I don't need to reply to that part.


Besides, there is a great difference between feeling affection for your original country and feeling affection for its ruling regime. First is understandable, but second seems simply hypocritical

Governments/rulers come and go but the country stays. You don't have to get attached to the former but, if you are a true patriot, you look forward to help and serve your country irrespective of your government or your present country of residence.

You are entitled to your opinion. Go and vote accordingly.

[Doublethinker]

after one year spended on mp.net and hundreds of my posts arguing with "Russia Strong" crewmen I first time I can hear those words...

I get it ... and wish all Russians good luck

Thanks. Chances of success are small, but heck.

In 2008 I'll be there.

[Xaito]

Yeah, right. What's the price of a loaf of bread in Moscow? How much does a bottle of vodka cost? What's the price of a ride in the Moscow subway? Where are most of cultural events for the young are held? Of course, you can ring up one of your friends and ask, but in reality, you just don't know the answer.

You see I don't need to know how much bread or a bottle of vodka costs in Moscow - but then again I don't know how much a bread or a bottle of vodka costs in Berlin either - I know it for the place where I live because i need to know - so how does this trivial knowledge change anything?
Then again my parents probably do know as they ask about such things when they talk with family and friends who live in russia when they visit or when we call them - I'm just not interested.


You are EXCLUDED from the life of this country and its people.
I'm not excluded I just don't participate at the moment.
I don't care if you don't like it but I am a Russian both by birthright and later approved by the russian consul in Germany - I have a passport and can travel and settle down freely in Russia with all rights that you have.
I have grown up in a Russian family by Russian traditions too.


You are living in a different economical and different political environment only paying visits to Moscow from time to time, but you honestly believe that you have as much moral right to express your opinion about the regime as I do?!

yes I do - you have the privilege that you can express your opinion oficially during elections while I'm not allowed to vote while I live abroad but I don't see a reason why I couldn't express my opinion about the government of a nation I belong to.

Your point was that we don't know how it is to live in Russia and that we don't know how people live in Russia - both is not true as I have lived in Russia while I was a child - I have visited it while I was a teenager and I watch Russian news on TV and have access to russian newspapers that my parents read - so don't compare me to westerners who tell Russia what to do while not knowing what they talk about please.



I never stated something contrary to this.
yes you did on page 4


Only revolution will save Russia from this corrupted regime.
what revolution? You tried to make it look like only the Russians who live abroad support the current government while the poor people who have to endure life in Russia are all gainst it... which is simply wrong - the majority supports the government while you and other sore losers of the opposition daydream about their revolutions - dream on but just don't act like you are the voice of the majority of Russia's people.

[asch]

For Christ's sake, just take a moment to put some thinking into what I'm writing.

I'm not talking of patriotism:

Unlike those who like to leave their "heart" lying elsewhere while living in a completely different place, we citizens of Russia residing in Russia have to cope with the results of actions of our leaders.

It really is EASY to be a patriot if you aren't living here. Hey, I can play the role of a patriot of North Korea. Why not? I'm also a patriot of Cuba. And Afghanistan. And Mao's regime. Really easy, you see?

Besides, there is a great difference between feeling affection for your original country and feeling affection for its ruling regime. First is understandable, but second seems simply hypocritical.
man, serious. there is a plenty of people around who make their lives up and don't bother to whine. don't paint Russia in black, because it simply not true.

[asch]

after one year spended on mp.net and hundreds of my posts arguing with "Russia Strong" crewmen I first time I can hear those words...

I get it ... and wish all Russians good luck
sure thanks.
it seems that there is one man group on MPnet, that can be caled like "RussiaWeak".:cantbeli:

[Switek]

sure thanks.
it seems that there is one man group on MPnet, that can be caled like "RussiaWeak".:cantbeli:

What?


No, democratic Russia doesen't mean "Russia Weak" :cantbeli:

[daily666]

Doesn't really make a difference.

Evil twins.

I can only say, that Ivanov is much more disgusting due to his comments on the hazing in the Russian army.

Only revolution will save Russia from this corrupted regime.

With all due respect too all you're saying, but I'm not really sure if I'd like another revolution in Russia. The last one ended with quite a few million people dead.

[Switek]

With all due respect too all you're saying, but I'm not really sure if I'd like another revolution in Russia. The last one ended with quite a few million people dead.

Come on, mate - orange revolution was bloodless


Well, you know, similar to what they had in Ukraine and what they tried in Byelorussia.

I guess I know what Doublethinker means.

[asch]

Come on, mate - orange revolution was bloodless
I guess I know what Doublethinker means.
a whole concept of colorful revolutions concentrated around "ze will of people (<---a group sponsored by "western friends") versus "foreign evil empire puppets" ( <--- of course we are, Evil Russkies).
all those concept where western, err, "influentors" tries vs inner "enemy", like in Belorussia and whererver-in-Asia-stan, are fvcked up.


What?
No, democratic Russia doesen't mean "Russia Weak" :cantbeli: oh, yes, i forget - if you like it, so it's "democratic", if you don't like it - so it's not.
i'm tired of all this double-standard shyte.

[Switek]

a whole concept of colorful revolutions concentrated around "ze will of people (<---a group sponsored by "western friends") versus "foreign evil empire puppets" ( <--- of course we are, Evil Russkies).
all those concept where western, err, "influentors" tries vs inner "enemy", like in Belorussia and whererver-in-Asia-stan, are fvcked up.

oh, yes, i forget - if you like it, so it's "democratic", if you don't like it - so it's not.
i'm tired of all this double-standard shyte.

What's wrong with you? Did you forget my post (http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showpost.php?p=2316851&postcount=37) from another thread? Do you really think that there is secret anti Russian conspiracy with one aim - oppress you?

You should underestand that Russia being a republic is not automatically democratic state... :|

I really believe that Russians exactly know in what state they live.

[asch]

What's wrong with you? Did you forget my post (http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showpost.php?p=2316851&postcount=37) from another thread? Do you really think that there is secret anti Russian conspiracy with one aim - oppress you?
very colorful pictures. proble is - i don't have much credit for such organizations. to your secons question, in one world - no.

You should underestand that Russia being a republic is not automatically democratic state... :|
ok to me. on other side, you know that enforcing a democracy is a kinda pervert thing?

I really believe that Russians exactly know in what state they live.
fine. now try to beleive that most of us found this state acceptable.

btw, "democracy" is a "will of common folk" concept, yes? so, what you see in Russia now is this will.

[Switek]

very colorful pictures. proble is - i don't have much credit for such organizations. to your secons question, in one world - no.

your criticism is valuable thing, use it not only against those who crititicize current form of Russian regime


ok to me. on other side, you know that enforcing a democracy is a kinda pervert thing?

enforcing democracy excludes implementation of democracy itself


fine. now try to beleive that most of us found this state acceptable.

AFAIK there aren't independent (reliable) polls on this topic in Russia.


btw, "democracy" is a "will of common folk" concept, yes? so, what you see in Russia now is this will.

no Russia isn't.

[Xaito]

AFAIK there aren't independent (reliable) polls on this topic in Russia.
go to Russia and ask around yourself if you don't believe the polls of others.


your criticism is valuable thing, use it not only against those who crititicize current form of Russian regime
your criticism is a valuable thing, but stop sticking your nose where it doesn't belong.

Putin is doing a great job, Russia is improving and the people see and like that - get over it.

[Switek]

go to Russia and ask around yourself if you don't believe the polls of others.

the most reterded argument... "go and you will see".


your criticism is a valuable thing, but stop sticking your nose where it doesn't belong.

Why? becouse you say so? It's an open forum. Not for "Russians Only"


Putin is doing a great job, Russia is improving and the people see and like that - get over it.

Seems that Russians on exile know it better


Anyway we are going of topic...

[Xaito]

the most reterded argument... "go and you will see".

What else is there to do if you don't believe the russian polls?
I don't mean neccessarily personally - send a polish reporter or whoever you would believe.



Why? becouse you say so? It's an open forum. Not for "Russians Only"

yes because I say so - of course it's for you to decide but I thought it does'nt hurt to ask ;)




Seems that Russians on exile know it better

No, you Poles know best of course.
Besides I thought I made it clear by now that im not on exile.

[Switek]

What else is there to do if you don't believe the russian polls?
I don't mean neccessarily personally - send a polish reporter or whoever you would believe.
yes because I say so - of course it's for you to decide but I thought it does'nt hurt to ask ;)
No, you Poles know best of course.
Besides I thought I made it clear by now that im not on exile.

I read qiute a lot from different sources - enough to have own opinions...

Susmu, you haven't got Russian citizenship?

[Xaito]

Susmu, you haven't got Russian citizenship?
I have a dual citizenship - german and russian.

[Switek]

I have a dual citizenship - german and russian.

So what's your status then if not exile (emigrant)?

[perdurabo]

Evil twins.


hey :bash: havig evil twins in power is OUR way you Russian copycats :bash::bash::bash::bash:

[Xaito]

So what's your status then if not exile (emigrant)?

yes im an emigrant - my father is a descendant of ethnic german people who lived for generations in russia.
Because of that I have a dual citizenship and am free to live where I want (including all other EU countries btw ;) )

[Doublethinker]

man, serious. there is a plenty of people around who make their lives up and don't bother to whine. don't paint Russia in black, because it simply not true.

You don't bother to think too, probably.

I'm not whining, I'm expressing dissatisfaction with current government and its policy in all spheres, especially social, economic, foreign relations and military areas.

Where do you live, by the way?

[Doublethinker]

I was not replying to your post(s). Don't jump to conclusions.



Of course you have to cope with the actions of your leaders. YOU are the ones who elected them, not the Russians who live abroad.


Exactly. WE elected them, and WE'll take them down if we finally wake up to reality.

And I don't need no outsiders "explaining" me, that Putin is actually good - and that is better seen from Washington than from Moscow itself. Nor do the outsiders have any moral right to speak on behalf of Russians, since THEY never took part in the elections.




How can you say that? You have not lived abroad. You don't even understand how difficult it is to be a patriot residing in a foreign land.


I don't care to. I just want outsiders to mind their own business.

And we'll manage without their precious advice. We'll really do.



Governments/rulers come and go but the country stays.

This whole thing started with certain foreign nationals with double citizenship (or only non-Russian citizenship) expressing support for a certain Russian president AND his policy, and playing the "more Russian than thou" card. Remember, that nucase from Liepaia? That's what I'm talking about.

[Doublethinker]

With all due respect too all you're saying, but I'm not really sure if I'd like another revolution in Russia. The last one ended with quite a few million people dead.

With all due respect, I don't need Poles telling us what to do, as well as foreign "Russians".

The last revolution, the. dissolution of the USSR, was almost "clean" compared to many other events in Russian history.

[Doublethinker]

a whole concept of colorful revolutions concentrated around "ze will of people (<---a group sponsored by "western friends") versus "foreign evil empire puppets" ( <--- of course we are, Evil Russkies).


Ahahaha!! Well, let's suppose its true: and If it's enough to bolster an anti-government movement with some money to overthrow current leadership, doesn't it really show what such kind of government is worth to its citizens?





all those concept where western, err, "influentors" tries vs inner "enemy", like in Belorussia and whererver-in-Asia-stan, are fvcked up.


On the contrary. Current level of technology and experience in social experiments allows totalitarian and autoritarian regimes to last for an indefinite period of time, without people getting a chance for liberation, other than through foreign aid and assistance.

Hell, were it not for war with Vietnam, Cambodia could have had that murderous bastard Pol Pot in power until well into 90's.



oh, yes, i forget - if you like it, so it's "democratic", if you don't like it - so it's not.
i'm tired of all this double-standard shyte.

I agree with you here, corrupted semi-autoritarian regimes of Iraq or A-stan can hardly be classified as democracies, or even more democratic than, say, Iran. There's Germany, there's Spain, there's France.

Even Poland has a rather independent foreign politics. They aren't US puppets as you like to paint them.


But that's the US. Being democratic doesn't mean following the US lead no matter what.

[Doublethinker]

ok to me. on other side, you know that enforcing a democracy is a kinda pervert thing?

.

Ataturk did. Worked quite well.

Worked for Germany too. Worked well for Japan.

[Doublethinker]

yes im an emigrant - my father is a descendant of ethnic german people who lived for generations in russia.
Because of that I have a dual citizenship and am free to live where I want (including all other EU countries btw ;) )

How convinient. So you resort to "Russian patriotism" as means of spending your free time after enjoying the liberties provided by the countries you reside in?

I couldn't come up with something more perverted and hypocritical (other than trotskism in American universities, that is).

[Switek]

Ataturk did. Worked quite well.

Worked for Germany too. Worked well for Japan.

Interesting point Doublethinker.

Germany started to build up democratic institutions in 19th century so it was easy for them to overcome nazi era (1933-45). But what is in common of those three examples? Total collapse of their preceding regimes, after defeated wars what led to collapse of state and central state institutions.

[Xaito]

How convinient. So you resort to "Russian patriotism" as means of spending your free time after enjoying the liberties provided by the countries you reside in?

I couldn't come up with something more perverted and hypocritical (other than trotskism in American universities, that is).

patriotism isn't a mean of spending my free time - it's how I feel - I love both my countries - Russia and Germany and don't care how you think about it or if it pleases you or not.
Yes it can be really convinient but who said that beeing patriotic only works if you don't use the chances you have?
I never hide that I have a dual citizenship and do not pretend to be somebody I am not - you can either accept me and my opinion or not but you'll have to live with it.
I know if it was up to you I'd have to live on some mountain away from civilization where I can't take part in political decisions and would not be allowed to have an opinion (as long as I don't support yours of course - as you seem to be very selective in this matter - like seen with switek and daily666 - you tell one Pole to keep out of Russia's business and another pole who supports your revolutionary delusions is welcome to give his opinion on Russia's affairs).
Nice try to discredit my opinion because you can't convince me with yours - although I think its a little bit low.

[JA]

Who will become the successor of Vladimir Putin?
There are two most probable candidates:
Current Minister of Devense Sergei Ivanov
or
Dmitry Medvedev - deputy prime minister of the Russian government

The one Russian nation votes for!!!:lol:

[Xaito]

The one Russian nation votes for!!!:lol:
the Russian nation can't vote for somebody who is no candidate - the question is who the candidate will be - as for who the people will vote for it looks like they will vote for anybody Putin suggests.

[Flamming_Python]

Here is an interesting article http://en.rian.ru/analysis/20070309/61772622.html:


MOSCOW. (RIA Novosti commentator Mikhail Khmelev) - Russia and the Russians have changed beyond recognition in the 20 years since the beginning of major reforms.

Today Russians do not care what is happening abroad or in the Russian corridors of power, who wins elections or what deputies vote for.

Now Russians care only about their own problems and well-being. The political disputes that shook the country in the 1990s have given way to social problems and criminal scandals.

According to VTsIOM, a pollster, the key events for Russians in 2006 were a scandal in the army surrounding the hazing of conscript Andrei Sychyov and the killing of Chechen terrorist No. 1 Shamil Basayev (half of respondents, respectively). About one-third of the respondents (27%) mentioned three high-profile murders, that of Andrei Kozlov, first deputy chairman of Russia's central bank, Anna Politkovskaya, a well-known journalist, and former FSB lieutenant-colonel Alexander Litvinenko. But only 11% of Russians cited the administrative reform.

In December 2006, Russia's parliament passed new electoral legislation, but Russians did not even remember it a month later. In January, only 15% recalled the controversy over the removal of the "none of the above" line on ballots and the abolition of the minimum turnout requirement.

As for foreign policy problems, they seem to worry only politicians and analysts.

Respondents were offered a list of answers from which to choose. When they were asked to provide an independent answer, 56% of them could not do so.

Nobody in Russia could have imagined several years ago that the country would be pushed into such deep political apathy. In the late 1990s, Russian society was divided into opposing groups, and the people saw only two options: a revival of the communist system, or a leap into unlimited democracy. News programmes began and ended with political items. The people discussed who would win the elections and where the new president would lead the country. Society reverberated with the echo of the Chechen war and terrorist attacks planned by international terrorist groups.

What has made Russians forget about politics?

Ideological apathy has become the main tendency in the majority of countries that are beginning to achieve economic prosperity. Russia is one of them. The ideological disputes that dominated public discussion several years ago have lost their significance.

Russia has entered the consumption era. People's prosperity and incomes are growing. According to a leading Russian pollster, the Levada Center, the personal incomes of about a third of Russians have grown in the past ten years, and 66% of Russians now describe their financial situation as satisfactory or very good. Only 6% said their incomes had decreased.

No wonder that the significance of political problems has waned against that background, with the majority of Russians caring only about their own well-being. Experts agree that the lack of interest in politics and external problems will last as long as the Russian economy grows and Russians' financial situation improves.

The number of political parties in Russia has multiplied in the past ten years, but Russians have lost the ability to distinguish between them. Affected by the loss of public interest, politicians are becoming more aloof from the people. Experts say that politics in Russia has become less meaningful and open, more ceremonious and removed from society. The country's political space has been monopolised by a few key political parties and the state.

Another political cycle will begin in Russia in a few months. This year, Russians will vote in elections for the lower house of parliament, and in 2008 for a new president. But the outcome of these elections can be predicted accurately enough today. The majority of Russians are satisfied with the country's progress.

According to the Levada Center, if the elections were held tomorrow, 49% of Russians would vote for the party that currently has the majority in parliament. The opposition camp has long been divided between the supporters of different parties. As many as 19% support the Communists, while 8%-10% favour right-wing parties. The remaining votes are divided between a vast majority of other parties and movements that differ very little from each other. All of them proclaim that their goals are public accord and social justice.

For the past 20 years, Russia has been consistently moving along a path well trodden by Western democracies, but public apathy is the only similarity between Russia and neighbouring European countries. More than 70% of the respondents to the Levada poll do not view themselves as Europeans; European political and cultural values seem strange to them.

At the same time, few respondents said Russia is an Eastern country. Numerous polls show that Russians think the country "stands somewhere in between." This explains the nationwide support for, or rather the lack of visible protest against, the pragmatic foreign policy the current political leadership has pursued in the past few years.

Russians are happy with the material opportunities offered by political stability and do not want to lose them for the sake of abstract ideologies and noble political goals.

[Switek]

Good reading, Flamming_Python, thanks for posting

[JA]

the Russian nation can't vote for somebody who is no candidate - the question is who the candidate will be - as for who the people will vote for it looks like they will vote for anybody Putin suggests.
Russian nation doesn't like to live in freedom. They always need a "ruler", i.e. a father-governor. It's not a surprise that dictature is coming back there... Maybe it's not so bad for them.

[nahimov]

Russian nation doesn't like to live in freedom. They always need a "ruler", i.e. a father-governor. It's not a surprise that dictature is coming back there... Maybe it's not so bad for them.

Well, shows what you know about current Russia affears.

[JA]

Well, shows what you know about current Russia affears.
Pardon?? Did I get it right that you meant I know nothing right about Russia??

[nahimov]

Pardon?? Did I get it right that you meant I know nothing right about Russia??

Maybe you know what western media has been feeding you. I guess you did not know that Putin is not going to run in 2008, politicians still have to be elected in Russia. Here goes your "theory" about "father-figure" right out of the door.

[Xaito]

Russian nation doesn't like to live in freedom.
everybody likes to live in freedom.
Personally I think I'd even feel more free in Russia then in Germany because there are less regulations and restrictions.

[Switek]

Pro-Kremlin Parties Set to Win in Russian Regional Polls

Created: 12.03.2007 10:54 MSK (GMT +3), Updated: 12:54 MSK, 6 hours 5 minutes ago

Pro-Kremlin parties on Monday looked set to win all 14 regional elections contested Sunday, the AFP reported on Monday adding that the results were confirming Kremlin’s near-total dominance of the Russian political scene ahead of upcoming parliamentary and presidential elections.

The country’s largest party, the pro-presidential United Russia, had secured commanding leads in 13 races by Monday morning, the ITAR-TASS news agency reported, citing provisional results from regional election officials.

“The main result of the elections is that United Russia has remained the leading party in Russia. It had no rivals in the majority of regions,” the general director of polling agency VTsIOM, Valery Fyodorov, told the Interfax news agency late Sunday.

The recently created A Just Russia party —- another fervent supporter of President Vladimir Putin —- was expected to win the remaining district, according to the provisional results.

The figures showed the party sparring with the opposition Communist Party and the pro-government Liberal-Democratic Party for second place in the other races.

The liberal Union of Right Forces appeared close to crossing the 7-percent barrier for representation in four regions, while liberal rivals Yabloko looked set to fail in all 14 regions.

For many observers, the main intrigue in Sunday’s polls was the extent to which United Russia and A Just Russia —- both seen as creations of Kremlin technocrats —- would compete with each other.

A Just Russia, which has sought to emphasize its social conscience, saw its strongest result in the southwestern Stavropol region.

Provisional figures showed it leading United Russia by 10 percentage points in the race for the regional assembly after an acrimonious campaign that pitched members of the local elite against each other.

The polls in 14 of 86 electoral districts, which involved almost 31 million people, about a third of the country’s electorate, were expected to set the stage for nationwide legislative elections to the lower house of parliament, the State Duma, in December.

The December parliamentary poll will in turn form the backdrop for a presidential vote to confirm a successor to Vladimir Putin on March 2 next year.

Critics are likely to class Sunday’s elections as another example of Russia’s “managed democracy” in which the independent media is stifled and opposition groups squeezed out by pro-Putin parties.

MosNews (http://www.mosnews.com/news/2007/03/12/regionalpolls.shtml)

:| :| :| :| :| :| :| :| :| :| :| :| :| :| :| :| :| :| :| :| :| :| :| :| :| :|

[nahimov]

MosNews (http://www.mosnews.com/news/2007/03/12/regionalpolls.shtml)

:| :| :| :| :| :| :| :| :| :| :| :| :| :| :| :| :| :| :| :| :| :| :| :| :| :|

See, and you did not want to belive that most Russians are satisfied with the current government. Most of Russians I talk to are happy with how Russia is changing for the better. Sure they are plenty things to improve but most of the problems were not created by current government.

[nahimov]

everybody likes to live in freedom.
Personally I think I'd even feel more free in Russia then in Germany because there are less regulations and restrictions.

You know, I feel the same way :) But each year Russian laws are growing more restrictive to match western laws (like you can no longer drink beer on a street and so on).

[Switek]

See, and you did not want to belive that most Russians are satisfied with the current government. Most of Russians I talk to are happy with how Russia is changing for the better. Sure they are plenty things to improve but most of the problems were not created by current government.

No I do believe that that most Russiand enjoy the current economoc and social stability.

[nahimov]

No I do believe that that most Russiand enjoy the current economoc and social stability.

So why are you surprised or upset by current election results? Or maybe I misinterpreted your reaction? Why would any Russian vote for other party when he/she is happy with the current one?

[JA]

Maybe you know what western media has been feeding you. I guess you did not know that Putin is not going to run in 2008, politicians still have to be elected in Russia. Here goes your "theory" about "father-figure" right out of the door.
And I didn't mean Putin to run 2008 elections at all. I meant people in Russia still believe in a strong and powerful tsar or hero that will keep the tightly and protect from the outer enemy. That's the truth you cannt deny.

[nahimov]

And I didn't mean Putin to run 2008 elections at all. I meant people in Russia still believe in a strong and powerful tsar or hero that will keep the tightly and protect from the outer enemy. That's the truth you cannt deny.

Sure I can :)
If that was the case, Russians would abandon the democracy right now and coronate Putin as tzar. Instead, we have a thread "Who will be the next president of Russia?" and "gasp" we don't know the answer.

[Xaito]

And I didn't mean Putin to run 2008 elections at all. I meant people in Russia still believe in a strong and powerful tsar or hero that will keep the tightly and protect from the outer enemy. That's the truth you cannt deny.

wtf are you drunk or somehting? where did the tsar come from?
stop talking nonesense.

[JA]

everybody likes to live in freedom.
Personally I think I'd even feel more free in Russia then in Germany because there are less regulations and restrictions.
Sure, but that Russian freedom is more like anarchy than civilized freedom. Yes, I know, for Eg., that in Russia you may do lots of things that's hard and useless to do in EU, US and s.o... starting from breaking road rules, going thru sending freely everybody "to get on a ****" as they say, all the speech is dirty with [MAT]... and finishing with the authorities that don't care a fig of their people. It's a legacy coming from a long ago, tsar times when the majority of population were the lowest sort (workers and peasants), passing thru the SU, where only party members could smth sufficient... and now. A citizen with no money is not a citizen...
Everything: army, business, society is deep in rudeness and anger.
So, that's what I know today.:roll:

[Switek]

So why are you surprised or upset by current election results? Or maybe I misinterpreted your reaction? Why would any Russian vote for other party when he/she is happy with the current one?

Why the hel I suould feel upset or surprised? AFAIK, there was no other option.

[JA]

wtf are you drunk or somehting? where did the tsar come from?
stop talking nonesense.
I'm more Russian than you p-) if you don't know that "to believe in a powerful tsar" is a figural Russian saying meaning that people think that 1 good person will change their lives.

[nahimov]

I'm more Russian than you p-) if you don't know that "to believe in a powerful tsar" is a figural Russian saying meaning that people think that 1 good person will change their lives.

LOL so you want to start counting genes (Russian vs "other"). I don't know a SINGLE Russian who belives in "powerful tzar" notion. You just talk nonsense.
BTW Do you belive in this?

[Switek]

John Adams, as I underestand "powerful tzar" was a methaphore - kind of way of ruling, I guess

[nahimov]

John Adams, as I underestand "powerful tzar" was a methaphore - kind of way of ruling, I guess

There was an article you posted on this very thread describing how Russians no longer care about politics the way they used to. It is very true. No longer Russians have to be "rescued" by a single person. Russians don't want a tyranny and are very much used to live free now so why in the world they would want a tsar-like rulers? Again I don't know anyone who would want that.

[JA]

Sure I can :)
If that was the case, Russians would abandon the democracy right now and coronate Putin as tzar. Instead, we have a thread "Who will be the next president of Russia?" and "gasp" we don't know the answer.
Ha-ha.. And who do you imply under "Russians" here? Don't say just: R U S S I A N S!!!!!!!
Democracy is in fashion today. Or, may, be you want to say that all those who live in Russia are Putinists?? Yeah, in 1996 they were all Elcinists and so on. May be you know there's a fat "beautiful" lady named Novodvorskaya. If you haven't hear her "brilliant" speeches - try to find and listen to some. According to her, Russians should return all escaped dvoryanin descendants, make a tsar of one of them and ...
On the other hand, a cool guy like Zhirinovski... my gosh... and many other show cast representatives...

[JA]

LOL so you want to start counting genes (Russian vs "other"). I don't know a SINGLE Russian who belives in "powerful tzar" notion. You just talk nonsense.
BTW Do you belive in this?
No. I don't care, actually. You know Russians not so good then...:)

[JA]

John Adams, as I underestand "powerful tzar" was a methaphore - kind of way of ruling, I guess
SURE, MAN!!!
RESPEKK:)

[nahimov]

Ha-ha.. And who do you imply under "Russians" here? Don't say just: R U S S I A N S!!!!!!!
Democracy is in fashion today. Or, may, be you want to say that all those who live in Russia are Putinists?? Yeah, in 1996 they were all Elcinists and so on. May be you know there's a fat "beautiful" lady named Novodvorskaya. If you haven't hear her "brilliant" speeches - try to find and listen to some. According to her, Russians should return all escaped dvoryanin descendants, make a tsar of one of them and ...
On the other hand, a cool guy like Zhirinovski... my gosh... and many other show cast representatives...

LOL Now I got it :) You base your views on several nut-jobs :)
Then I would point you to michaelmoore.com for all info you need to get on US.

[JA]

LOL Now I got it :) You base your views on several nut-jobs :)
Then I would point you to michaelmoore.com for all info you need to get on US.
Oh, man. What if I say I've lived in Russia for 10 years?

[nahimov]

Oh, man. What if I say I've lived in Russia for 10 years?

I've lived in Russia for 15 and I'm visiting there each year and I've never heard "tsar" or "strong leader" nonsense you describing here. I think my grandma liked the idea during Soviet times but that is all I could muster.

[Flamming_Python]

Without getting involved into the babble going on in this thread, i'd like to post another article:

RIA Novosti http://en.rian.ru/analysis/20070313/61934418.html


MOSCOW. (RIA Novosti political commentator Dmitry Shusharin) - The March 11 elections held in 14 Russian regions have provoked different reactions, which makes sense because there are different criteria for evaluating results.

Officially, United Russia won everywhere, with the exception of the southern Stavropol Territory, where it came in second. That unfortunate failure signifies that the pro-Kremlin party has ceased to be the only party of power, and that the political landscape has changed with the appearance of a potential rival.

Opinions on this score also differ. The left-wing party A Just Russia, led by Sergei Mironov, speaker of the upper house of Russia's parliament, based its campaign in the regions on sharp criticism of the local authorities, which are led by United Russia. Mironov criticized that party in all of his public speeches.

A Just Russia is neither an opposition party nor a party of power. Like United Russia, A Just Russia was established within President Vladimir Putin's system of government. The merger of two parties, Unity and Fatherland-All Russia, in 2001 was a major stage in the development of that system.

Those two parties represented different power clans, and therefore their merger signified a transition to a single political authority.

The establishment of A Just Russia has not undermined that principle, as Mironov, the third-ranking man in the Russian government, will do nothing without the approval of the top leader. But the struggle between the two rivals is reaching unexpected heights. The executive branch probably wanted to drive a wedge into the elite, but this division could easily become too real.

The Western press has concluded that Russians are indifferent to the outcome of elections. But the average turnout at the regional elections was nearly 40% (although it was 30% and even 21% in some regions), or 2% higher than the year before. Moreover, passions ran high in the election period, and they were not limited to an exchange of words.

This time, election campaigns in the regions were accompanied by acts of violence, mainly against the campaign staffs of United Russia and A Just Russia. For example, the deputy head of the campaign headquarters of United Russia was beaten up in St. Petersburg, and several days later the chief of the campaign headquarters of A Just Russia was stabbed there.

Those two facts alone show that the organized and controlled bipartisan system is not the complete farce it may seem at first glance. Such passions are proof of irreconcilable ideological differences, or of a high-stakes battle for power. Both elements seem to be present in the current confrontation between United Russia and A Just Russia, although the battle for power is more important.

Before the regional elections, Mironov firmly positioned himself as the leader of a left-wing socialist party that was against capitalism in Russia. Such firmness was never a policy of United Russia, which tried to combine left-wing and right-wing ideologies while remaining the party of power, or rather the party of those power groups that have found their niches in Putin's political and economic system.

This system is a combination of liberal principles, "dirigisme" (the practice or inclination to direct activities from a central authority), recognition of private property, and state raiding at all levels of power. The only thing this system lacks is attention to social problems, a substantiated social safety net, and paternalism for all Russians, not just the country's richest people.

This super-oligarchy replaced the oligarchy of the 1990s, just as the super-presidential republic of Vladimir Putin replaced the presidential republic of Boris Yeltsin.

Mironov's only supporters are oligarchs. The upper house of Russia's parliament, which is part of his party's foundation, includes six dollar-billionaires and a dozen dollar-millionaires. A Just Russia raised the required campaign funds very quickly, and it was said to have more money than United Russia. Therefore, the populist slogans used by Mironov may signify a desire to establish not simply another political charade, a controlled left-wing party; the political and economic groups standing behind the speaker are probably using populist slogans to create conditions for a new re-division of power and property.

In this case, A Just Russia is a formidable threat not only to the monopoly of United Russia and Putin's system of government, but also to society as a whole. Is it not strange that a new political force that is connected to the authorities, and is actually part of them, appears and starts to spread its anti-capitalist propaganda exactly when property stratification and social tensions have begun to grow?

What if it disrupts the political balance? A Just Russia could have been set up to lure away potential supporters of extremist organizations, but would these new members make the party an extremist organization?

There are many questions, all of them alarming. But the relative success of United Russia has prompted one positive conclusion about public sentiments in different regions of Russia.

A Just Russia was formed through a merger of the Party of Life, the Party of Pensioners and the nationalist party Rodina (Homeland). Rodina was expected to add nationalist spice to the pot, but it did not. A Just Russia scored its first achievements without resorting to nationalist demagoguery.

United Russia and its youth wing are working on the so-called Russian Project, trying to adapt nationalist slogans to Russia and win over a share of politically active people.

The Russian people, however, can do without this, because social slogans and promises of social protection have proved to be more effective than nationalism and promises of ethnic purges.

Highlighted in bold, is a particularly worrying development. Little chance this is United Russia properganda; this article comes from a fairly objective commentator.

Supposing this is true, it actually reminds me of a letter Khodorkovsky wrote from his jail a couple of years ago, about how Russian society must turn to the "left" in order to avoid an authoritarian future. I completely agree with the words, just not the person who authored the words.

What are we supposed to believe that the greedy oligarchs will become Robin Hoods overnight? Robbing themselves to give to the poor? This is ridiculous. Looks like I'll still have a while to wait before a real left-wing alternative party appears in Russia.

[JA]

Without getting involved into the babble going on in this thread, i'd like to post another article:

RIA Novosti http://en.rian.ru/analysis/20070313/61934418.html



Highlighted in bold, is a particularly worrying development. Little chance this is United Russia properganda; this article comes from a fairly objective commentator.

Supposing this is true, it actually reminds me of a letter Khodorkovsky wrote from his jail a couple of years ago, about how Russian society must turn to the "left" in order to avoid an authoritarian future. I completely agree with the words, just not the person who authored the words.

What are we supposed to believe that the greedy oligarchs will become Robin Hoods overnight? Robbing themselves to give to the poor? This is ridiculous. Looks like I'll still have a while to wait before a real left-wing alternative party appears in Russia.
Good point.

[JA]

I've lived in Russia for 15 and I'm visiting there each year and I've never heard "tsar" or "strong leader" nonsense you describing here. I think my grandma liked the idea during Soviet times but that is all I could muster.
You should also hear that Russians usually speak figurally. And the word "tsar" doesn't mean literally "an awful monarch, tiran and so on". Come on, try to get free from your western straight-into-forehead understanding of things. Anyway, it's your POV.

[asch]

You should also hear that Russians usually speak figurally. And the word "tsar" doesn't mean literally "an awful monarch, tiran and so on". Come on, try to get free from your western straight-into-forehead understanding of things. Anyway, it's your POV.

i lived in Russia since my birth. and you are wrong. end of discussion.

[Xaito]

i lived in Russia since my birth. and you are wrong. end of discussion.

haha thanks - ive waited so long until somebody says that ;)

[Izverg]

Cool. So what Russian am I? Or oh my god, did he guess right? Am I a j00w?!?!

No, sorry to disappoint you. My name is Pavel Trushin, my mother is half-Ukrainian, half-Russian, my father is Russian with some influx of caucasian (as far as I remember, Georgian, I think) blood somewhere. I have neither the ties with the j00s, nor with oligarchs, nor with j00wish oligarchs, since I work as a manager in a translation bureau. My business is 100% legal and doesn't deal with oil, media or anything.

Now that's what you wanted to know about ME and what kind of a Russian I am. I'm the kind of Russian, who lives in Russia, speaks Russian, thinks Russian and actually shares a COMMON fate with the Russian people. Unlike you, guys. You flew to the West to drink bear and eat bavarian sausages when the times were tough, and you know what: I don't mind, and I don't care. But for some reason you think that you can speak on OUR behalf and tell US what to do in OUR country with OUR lives, though you won't actually try and come to reap the harvest of decisions of "dear leaders" over here. Its really so well and dandy to praise Mother Russia's greatness, especially when you fart around in New York, not having to deal with the CONSEQUENCES of such irresponsible, stupid, close-minded and ignorant actions like that of mr. Putin.

You weren't the ones to be blown up in metro, WE were. My brother was 5 minutes too late to get caught up with the explosion near Rizhskaya. It is US not YOU who bear the brunt of this fake and hollow "greatness", doing the best we can to make ends meet while Putin arranges another brilliant gambit in Ukraine, Byelorussia, Serbia or some other sh!thole instead of addresing the REAL problems.

You aren't Russian, you are neither here nor there. Already not Russians, but definitely not the citizens of the countries you reside in, because of evident double loyalties.

As for sovok, this term was coined especially in order to lable such residue from the Soviet epoch, like our little friend over there in LIEPAIA, protecting Russian greatness and putin's regime while living as far as possible from its dear embrace, i.e. hypocritial loudmouths.

I rest my case.

For a start some biographycal information:
My name is Ivanov Yevgeniy. Im Russian, I live in Liepaya, Latvia. Currently I study and work in Riga. I didnt flee anywhere in "tough times", I live in country where I was born and where my ancestors had lived for 300 years before me. Also I have a lot of relatives in Russia and I visited them many times. And I can assure you, Pasha, that in our "super-democratic and European" Latvia things are going not much better than in your "Totalitarian Heaven" neither in terms of economy nor in terms of your so-called democracy (although I have nothing against Latvians). So give me a favor - stop your idiotic speculations who is real Russian here and who is not!
Please dont add me to "sovki" or to another jingos. Unlike them and unlike you I look at the subject of discussion from different sides. I take into consideration every point of view, even yours! I asked you two normal questions about what exactly doesnt suit you in policy of Putin and whom do you want to see on his place. And what did i get in response?
I didnt say a single word of "Russia's greateness" or that in Russia currently everything is fine. But YES, I like Putin. The question about his "irresponsible, stupid, close-minded and ignorant actions" is disputable. I repeat I dont say that life in Russia is easy, BUT... Im afraid even to imagine the scale of social and economic degradation that would take place in country if Putin didnt "take aligarchs by the throat".
I see that you already going to make revolution:))))))). But can I ask you one question: What will change in Russia when you will get rid of HIM? Do you think the prices on bread, vodka and subway tickets will rapidly fall? You have to be COMPLETE IDIOT to see connection between low living standart in Russia and "lack of democracy".
How many times we went through this already? "Lets overthrow Tsar and everything will be Super!! Lets overthrow Gorbatchev and everything will be Fine!!" And now lets overthrow Putin and everything will be Wonderfull?? NO, IT WONT!!!! "To lick its wounds"(economical I mean) Russia needs stability not another revolution!!

[kosse]

Presidential candidate Vladimir Zhirinovsky has promised to return Vyborg (Вы́борг) to Finland if he wins the elections in an interview with Helsingin Sanomat. Article only in Finnish:

http://www.hs.fi/ulkomaat/artikkeli/HS-haastattelu+Presidenttiehdokas+%C5%BDirinovski+lupaa+voiton+tullen+Viipurin+Suomelle/1135226654181

Now that would be the day if he won and kept his promise. p-)

[Aude sapere]

Presidential candidate Vladimir Zhirinovsky has promised to return Vyborg (Вы́борг) to Finland if he wins the elections in an interview with Helsingin Sanomat. Article only in Finnish:

http://www.hs.fi/ulkomaat/artikkeli/HS-haastattelu+Presidenttiehdokas+%C5%BDirinovski+lupaa+voiton+tullen+Viipurin+Suomelle/1135226654181

Sure, Vyborg back to the Grand Duchy of Finland, under Russian rule. The party he is leading, Liberal Democratic Party of Russia, has the annexation of Poland, Alaska and Finland in accordance with the historical borders of the Russian Empire as one of their main proposals.

At his visit to Finland a couple of years ago he answered the question on how Finland could be annexed to the 'Russian Empire' with something like "The Finnish Army would be cannon fodder". So I would prefer if the Russian people wouldn't vote for that clown.

[kosse]

Sure, Vyborg back to the Grand Duchy of Finland, under Russian rule. The party he is leading, Liberal Democratic Party of Russia, has the annexation of Poland, Alaska and Finland in accordance with the historical borders of the Russian Empire as one of their main proposals.

At his visit to Finland a couple of years ago he answered the question on how Finland could be annexed to the 'Russian Empire' with something like "The Finnsh Army would be cannon fodder".

Damn you for ruining my perfectly good flamebait for "russians" in exile (i.e the true patriots posting from their comfy armchairs somewhere in the US). Now they are going to start like this guy! p-)