Shorty M16A1...

[LF_Dragunov]

Hi all

I recently purchased a shorty M16A1...that is it looks like an M4 yet on the receiver it reads M16A1...

it hs obviously been "shortned" by a gunsmith...

my question is what is the impact of such an operation on the guns behaviour? will it cause misfires or jams???

Thanks in advance

PS forgot to add: the obvious thing would be to put in a couple of clips and see how it takes them...alas, I have no such luxury in Lebanon, where I live...

regards

[playtym]

I had a gunsmith do this with one of my 20" barrelled AR's.

On the first attempt it didn't work so well - he said that the gas port was too small and the weapon was short-stroking, resulting in automatic fire. It would fire on semi, and then suddenly run on auto until it jammed.

He opened up the gas port a little and this has solved the problem. I've been very happy with it since then.

Other than this I'm not really qualified to talk about what other types of problems you may encounter.

[LF_Dragunov]

I had a gunsmith do this with one of my 20" barrelled AR's.

On the first attempt it didn't work so well - he said that the gas port was too small and the weapon was short-stroking, resulting in automatic fire. It would fire on semi, and then suddenly run on auto until it jammed.

He opened up the gas port a little and this has solved the problem. I've been very happy with it since then.

Other than this I'm not really qualified to talk about what other types of problems you may encounter.
thanks playtym...

what I'm really looking for is any tell tale signs or things to expect...

I'll try to take some pictures and post them...

[playtym]

You wouldn't be able to check this unless you removed the front sight post and measured the gas port anyway.

My barrel worked out to be a bit of an odd length as I fitted one of those Bushmaster reverse flash-hiders, where it sit's over the barrel making it look shorter than it actually is. My barrel appears to be 11.5", with a long flash-hider, but it's actually 13.5" - so a bit of a random size.

Nobody I contacted in the US could give a definative answer on the size of the gas-port, so that's why it turned out to a bit of trial and error process.

If your barrel is 14.5" though they'd have been able to use a standard gas port size, so I'd guess that this won't be an issue for you.

[LF_Dragunov]

You wouldn't be able to check this unless you removed the front sight post and measured the gas port anyway.

My barrel worked out to be a bit of an odd length as I fitted one of those Bushmaster reverse flash-hiders, where it sit's over the barrel making it look shorter than it actually is. My barrel appears to be 11.5", with a long flash-hider, but it's actually 13.5" - so a bit of a random size.

Nobody I contacted in the US could give a definative answer on the size of the gas-port, so that's why it turned out to a bit of trial and error process.

If your barrel is 14.5" though they'd have been able to use a standard gas port size, so I'd guess that this won't be an issue for you.
OK that sounds like good news...thanks for the tip

I'll measure the barrel as soon s I get home although I guess its within the 14.5" range...

what was bothering me was how could they hve mnaged to make the handguards and front sites appear smaller than on the normal M16A1...

[Hollis]

You wouldn't be able to check this unless you removed the front sight post and measured the gas port anyway.

My barrel worked out to be a bit of an odd length as I fitted one of those Bushmaster reverse flash-hiders, where it sit's over the barrel making it look shorter than it actually is. My barrel appears to be 11.5", with a long flash-hider, but it's actually 13.5" - so a bit of a random size.

Nobody I contacted in the US could give a definative answer on the size of the gas-port, so that's why it turned out to a bit of trial and error process.

If your barrel is 14.5" though they'd have been able to use a standard gas port size, so I'd guess that this won't be an issue for you.


What you have is a short barreled rifle, if it has a stock which falls under Class III stuff. They do have it all figured out, I have a AR pistol that is 7 1/2 inches.

Becareful of short, the BATF does not like those things and will place a long hurt on you if not done right.

Short barrelled rifes can be made to NOT fall into the world of class III, by using a barrel extension (false silencer, etc) and having it Fixed (non removal).

[PvtPyle]

What you have is a short barreled rifle, if it has a stock which falls under Class III stuff. They do have it all figured out, I have a AR pistol that is 7 1/2 inches.

Becareful of short, the BATF does not like those things and will place a long hurt on you if not done right.

Short barrelled rifes can be made to NOT fall into the world of class III, by using a barrel extension (false silencer, etc) and having it Fixed (non removal).

He said he was in Lebanon, which I am guessing means Lebanon the country and not Lebanon OH. Other wise he could probably take it out and shoot it.

[lt tahoe]

The gas port in the 10.3"-barreled Mk18 was opened to 0.070", if that helps. 0.062" is the regular gas port size.

[Mr. JOSHUA]

What you have is a short barreled rifle, if it has a stock which falls under Class III stuff. They do have it all figured out, I have a AR pistol that is 7 1/2 inches.

Becareful of short, the BATF does not like those things and will place a long hurt on you if not done right.

Short barrelled rifes can be made to NOT fall into the world of class III, by using a barrel extension (false silencer, etc) and having it Fixed (non removal).


So lets say I buy a DPMS Kitty Kat, I cannot have a adj. stock on it?

[Hollis]

So lets say I buy a DPMS Kitty Kat, I cannot have a adj. stock on it?

If the barrel is not full grown up, NOPE, stocks are for grown up fire arms, same with those tango down grips people hang on the barrel. I believe for rifles under 16 inches is a class III item. (best is to check with a Class III dealer).


A stock makes it a short barreled rifle, legal if you have the class III stamp. Some of those pistol/rifle areas get pretty grey. Thompson contenders is a area where it easy and seemingly legal to make a short barreled rifle/shotgun.

[Hollis]

He said he was in Lebanon, which I am guessing means Lebanon the country and not Lebanon OH. Other wise he could probably take it out and shoot it.


Thanks, for the heads up.

[scrybe]

If the barrel is not full grown up, NOPE, stocks are for grown up fire arms, same with those tango down grips people hang on the barrel. I believe for rifles under 16 inches is a class III item. (best is to check with a Class III dealer).


A stock makes it a short barreled rifle, legal if you have the class III stamp. Some of those pistol/rifle areas get pretty grey. Thompson contenders is a area where it easy and seemingly legal to make a short barreled rifle/shotgun.

Yep. In the US, ARs are either registered as a rifle with a barrel length of at least 16" overall, or they have a shorter barrel and no stock, registered as a pistol. If you have a barrel less than 16" AND a stock, the weapon has to be registered as an SBR.

[playtym]

Becareful of short, the BATF does not like those things and will place a long hurt on you if not done right.

And I'm in South Africa, so I've got no problems with this either. :)

[Hollis]

And I'm in South Africa, so I've got no problems with this either. :)

Dangies, and the US is supposed to have uninfringed ownership of firearms.......... damn politicos lied to us again.

[LF_Dragunov]

thanks for all your replies...

I am in Lebanon as in Middle East Lebanon :) not anywhere else...over here no classes of weapons...you either have license to carry or you dont...if you do, you are entitled to either a handgun, a rifle (smg, ar) or both...my license allows me to carry both (lucky me) regardless of serial numbers...I may carry them concealed...and am not allowed to disharge them unless I am in situation of self defence...

this clarified, I am attaching a couple of pics I took yesterday...one shows the full gun whereas the other shows receiver markings...

what I am still curious at finding out is how these "shorties" are made? I mean what part of the barrel is cut off? is it the front part or the bottom part? this would give me insight on wether the gas port was played with and possibly allow me to figure out if it needs increasing the aperture as some suggested on the thread...

the barrel length, including the flash hider is 16"...(from the flash hider ll the way to the bottom of the handgrips)

[playtym]

I don't remember the exact distance that the gas port is from the front of the 20" barrel, but the Bushmaster Dissipator upper has a 16" barrel.

http://www.bushmaster.com/shopping/uppers/post-ban/pura2b16d.asp

This is achieved by just making the barrel 4" shorter from the front.

Looking at the length of the barrel ahead of the front sight I'm guessing that they've probably shortened that barrel of yours from the chamber end, and then sleeved and rechambered it.

Unless they've just fitted a whole new barrel to the receiver.

[LF_Dragunov]

I don't remember the exact distance that the gas port is from the front of the 20" barrel, but the Bushmaster Dissipator upper has a 16" barrel.

http://www.bushmaster.com/shopping/uppers/post-ban/pura2b16d.asp

This is achieved by just making the barrel 4" shorter from the front.

Looking at the length of the barrel ahead of the front sight I'm guessing that they've probably shortened that barrel of yours from the chamber end, and then sleeved and rechambered it.

Unless they've just fitted a whole new barrel to the receiver.
well, the guy who sold it to me told me it was done by the marines when they were in Beirut back in 1982-83...dont know how accurate that info is though...could be he was making it up to make the rifle more "appealing"...

you might be right about the shortening part (from the chamber end that it)...how would that affect the gas port? it would need to be shortened as well no?

by the way, how does one proceed in increasing the apperture of the gas port?

[playtym]

well, the guy who sold it to me told me it was done by the marines when they were in Beirut back in 1982-83...dont know how accurate that info is though...could be he was making it up to make the rifle more "appealing"...

you might be right about the shortening part (from the chamber end that it)...how would that affect the gas port? it would need to be shortened as well no?

by the way, how does one proceed in increasing the apperture of the gas port?

I'll see if I can dig up the info I managed to get when I was doing mine, unless there are any other members here who just happen to know off-hand what size gas port should be on a 16" barrelled AR?

I would think though that the gas port on a 20" barrel would be larger than that of the 14.5" and 16" barrels as pressure would have dropped more by then and you'd need to let in more gas to cycle the weapon.

Making them bigger is easy. Knock out the pins holding the front sight, remove it from the barrel and drill it out with a larger diameter drill.

Making them smaller is a bit harder - and the reason why I started off smaller and worked up on mine. You'll need to drill out and tap a larger hole in the barrel where the port was, insert a threaded plug to seal it, and start again. (If there are any gunsmiths here please jump in as this is my very basic understanding of it, but I may be completely wrong!)

But, as I said yesterday, to find out the size you'll need to take the sight off and measure the size of the port, although if the barrel was shortened from the chamber end I'd guess it was left standard - so still the same as on a 20" barrel?

[LF_Dragunov]

I'll see if I can dig up the info I managed to get when I was doing mine, unless there are any other members here who just happen to know off-hand what size gas port should be on a 16" barrelled AR?

I would think though that the gas port on a 20" barrel would be larger than that of the 14.5" and 16" barrels as pressure would have dropped more by then and you'd need to let in more gas to cycle the weapon.

Making them bigger is easy. Knock out the pins holding the front sight, remove it from the barrel and drill it out with a larger diameter drill.

Making them smaller is a bit harder - and the reason why I started off smaller and worked up on mine. You'll need to drill out and tap a larger hole in the barrel where the port was, insert a threaded plug to seal it, and start again. (If there are any gunsmiths here please jump in as this is my very basic understanding of it, but I may be completely wrong!)

But, as I said yesterday, to find out the size you'll need to take the sight off and measure the size of the port, although if the barrel was shortened from the chamber end I'd guess it was left standard - so still the same as on a 20" barrel?
will need to check it out in more details...being used to the AK 47 type of guns, I am somewhat new with the M16 series...still hvent managed to get the handguards off :(

I guess there is a ratio of gas port width to barrel length that ought to be applied (thats if one wants to look at it from the mechanical aspect) since as you pointed out, the longer the barrel, the larger the port...

Personally I would rather not change anything in that region as
1- I do not have the equipment
2- I paid around $1700 (we r talking US dollars here) for it...so, if it appears that its not as it should be, I would rather trade it in as I got it...

M16s are not very common over here...neither are their variants...a "real" M4 could go for as much as $2500 ... compared to the AK47 which goes for anything between $400 and $700, they are expensive...

prices have gone up by about 70% since escalation of political events and so on...everyone fears a new civil war and people re rushing to buy whatever they can get...

[playtym]

Pull the ring just ahead of the carry handle back towards the rear and you'll be able to lift them off.

My advice: Fire the thing and see if there are any issues before you go fiddling needlessly. :)

[LF_Dragunov]

Pull the ring just ahead of the carry handle back towards the rear and you'll be able to lift them off.

My advice: Fire the thing and see if there are any issues before you go fiddling needlessly. :)
thanks for the tip...

Yeah...u r right...the best test is to fire the thing...I hope to be able to fire it in the immediate future...

just wish I had it on new years eve...its common practice over here to shoot at midnight...this year I shot the AK...emptied around 6 clips...:D

people were shooting with FN MAGs, M60s, handguns of all shapes and sizes...thats the only time in the year when law enforcement turns a blind eye :D

should find myself a nice spot up in the mountains to fire a couple of shots in both auto and semi modes...

[KalleBalleSvartSk@lle]

If you shorten a barrel you do it from the front, it's easier.
If it's from the early 80s it may very well be factory ro653, but I think the serial number may be wrong.

There are a few clues to wether it's shortened or not, does the barrel flare outwards towards the flashhider, and does it have markings on the barrel just before the flashhider?

These thread should give you a clue: http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=123&t=296919
http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=123&t=241681

According to the serial number listing in the second thread I'm linking to, the lower should come from an M16A1.
Just curious, does it have case a deflector?

[LF_Dragunov]

If you shorten a barrel you do it from the front, it's easier.
If it's from the early 80s it may very well be factory ro653, but I think the serial number may be wrong.

There are a few clues to wether it's shortened or not, does the barrel flare outwards towards the flashhider, and does it have markings on the barrel just before the flashhider?

These thread should give you a clue: http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=123&t=296919
http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=123&t=241681

According to the serial number listing in the second thread I'm linking to, the lower should come from an M16A1.
Just curious, does it have case a deflector?
Hi man.
thanks for the info, awsome sites full of important info AFAIC

but what mkes you think the serial# is wrong??

also, I will check the markings (if any) on the barrel nd under the handguards...

[Durandal]

Got into this a bit late so I apologize in advance if this repeats anything.

The lower receiver markings have nothing to do with the upper receiver. Even IF the lower is marked M16A1, the upper can be a brand new 11.5" upper...

So, just because the lower receiver is stamped, doesn't mean the upper is a custom job. Converting a barrel isn't all that difficult but it the person needs to know what they are doing for certain and have the right tools. My guess is that it is a manufactured short barrel upper.

[LF_Dragunov]

Got into this a bit late so I apologize in advance if this repeats anything.

The lower receiver markings have nothing to do with the upper receiver. Even IF the lower is marked M16A1, the upper can be a brand new 11.5" upper...

So, just because the lower receiver is stamped, doesn't mean the upper is a custom job. Converting a barrel isn't all that difficult but it the person needs to know what they are doing for certain and have the right tools. My guess is that it is a manufactured short barrel upper.
ok...any tell tale signs besides the markings on the barrel/under the handguards that should give away the identity???

one thing that does lean in favor of your statement is the difference in color between the lower receiver and the barrel...receivers are greyinsh whereas the barrel is black...I dont know if it shows on the pic..

[Durandal]

The amount of work to chop a long barrel down and redo the gas system is probably enough to tell you that you have two different sections from two different guns.

In order to make it work right the barrel is going to have to be turned also, not just chopped.

For custom stuff here in the U.S. where we have tons of shops and lathes and customs gunsmiths, that is not a difficult task, but this is also something that would be illegal at this length.

Not too sure how easy it would be in Lebanon to find someone to do it.

[LF_Dragunov]

The amount of work to chop a long barrel down and redo the gas system is probably enough to tell you that you have two different sections from two different guns.

In order to make it work right the barrel is going to have to be turned also, not just chopped.

For custom stuff here in the U.S. where we have tons of shops and lathes and customs gunsmiths, that is not a difficult task, but this is also something that would be illegal at this length.

Not too sure how easy it would be in Lebanon to find someone to do it.
well over here anything goes...you have hizbullah in the south who cook up all sorts of concotions and gizmos...
and u have weapons flowing in from irak, syria and iran (despite their allegations that no weapons come in...but those shiny glocks didnt grow on trees did they ;) )

so the market is pretty much full these days...too bad demand has brought prices high...

regarding customizations...overall id say there are 6 or 7 specialists in the whole country capable of giving a clean job...the others are just amateurs...

i will take the handguards apart and examine the barrel further but been too busy last couple of days to do that...I will take pictures 'coz I guess nothing beats the opinions of experts on the forum...

thanks again for taking the time nd responding to all of you out there.

[Paulinski]

How the hell do you own a military AR? Either somebody stole it from the army or it was sold by some drunken private?

[LF_Dragunov]

How the hell do you own a military AR? Either somebody stole it from the army or it was sold by some drunken private?
hehehehe welcome to lebanon man...u can buy anything from a 22LR handgun to a MAG machine gun...or even an RPG7 ;)

[KalleBalleSvartSk@lle]

Dragunov, what I meant is that the serial number is wrong for a factory 653 as far as I've found references atleast, but it fits an M16A1.

The barrel may have been made in the length it is, 14.5" carbines were pretty popular with the Israelis so I guess it's not the hardest part to find, if not the whole upper.
The black colour of the barrel could mean it's refinished in some way, or new, but from the picture I get the impression that it's blued.

[Durandal]

How the hell do you own a military AR? Either somebody stole it from the army or it was sold by some drunken private?

You do realize that we have sold the M16 to a whole host of nations, including Lebanon?

Asking why he has an AR is like asking an Afghani why he has an SKS or an Enfield.

In 1997, for example, we sold the Thai government 37,500 M16A2 rifles, 4,700 M4 carbines. That's a single year and a single nation. There are MILLIONS of AR variants sold legally and illegally, not including all the Chi-com knock offs and the Iranian knock-offs (licensed to them by China).

[tuffaznalz]

the guy who sold it to me told me it was done by the marines when they were in Beirut back in 1982-83...dont know how accurate that info is though...could be he was making it up to make the rifle more "appealing"...
more than likley it came to Lebanon via Isreal and the Christian militias

[LF_Dragunov]

more than likley it came to Lebanon via Isreal and the Christian militias

Yes true...the LF (Lebanese Forces - Lebanese Christian resistance) purchased some weapons from Israel at the begining of the civil war (1975) in order to fight the palestinians...they were mostly FAL rifles, some Galils, and some M16s...

but its not strange to find all sorts of guns over here...from curios to hitech weapons...you have it all...I mean 15 years of civil war when all ports were open to ny kind of traffic, followed by 15 years of syrian occupation when you could import anything provided you greased the syrian palms...

but I dont want to hijack my own thread :D I should get pictures of the inner components of the gun this weekend and will post them on monday...

[LF_Dragunov]

Dragunov, what I meant is that the serial number is wrong for a factory 653 as far as I've found references atleast, but it fits an M16A1.

The barrel may have been made in the length it is, 14.5" carbines were pretty popular with the Israelis so I guess it's not the hardest part to find, if not the whole upper.
The black colour of the barrel could mean it's refinished in some way, or new, but from the picture I get the impression that it's blued.
Kalle...
yes now I understand your comment about the serial numbers...most likely the lower receiver was made in 82 as the current SN (5million somehting) indicates and belongs to a normal M16A1...

too bad they dont mark all the receivers (lower and upper) with the same number...that would have been the best way to find out...

the barrel I have is not 14.5"...its 16" thus 4" shorter than the normal 20" barrel...

[Sand Man]

You do realize that we have sold the M16 to a whole host of nations, including Lebanon?

Asking why he has an AR is like asking an Afghani why he has an SKS or an Enfield.

In 1997, for example, we sold the Thai government 37,500 M16A2 rifles, 4,700 M4 carbines. That's a single year and a single nation. There are MILLIONS of AR variants sold legally and illegally, not including all the Chi-com knock offs and the Iranian knock-offs (licensed to them by China).

Reminds me of Nicolas Cage's "Lord of War" ...

[LF_Dragunov]

Reminds me of Nicolas Cage's "Lord of War" ...
actually thre ws a spot in the movie where he comes over to Lebanon...

[masss11]

Some weeks ago a lad was photographed shooting with a German Stg-44 on the streets of Beirut.. The photo made the news back then, and the Hisbollah media claimed (based on the photo) that the 14th March movement is receiving 'new' high tech weapons !!..

You can find anything in Lebanon..

[LF_Dragunov]

Some weeks ago a lad was photographed shooting with a German Stg-44 on the streets of Beirut.. The photo made the news back then, and the Hisbollah media claimed (based on the photo) that the 14th March movement is receiving 'new' high tech weapons !!..

You can find anything in Lebanon..
Hey I am on the streets of Beirut 8 hours out of 24 and I never saw such guns :(

anyways, you re right, you can find anything...couple of weeks back, some palestinians were arrested for posession of SAM-7 rockets...they were selling them for $40,000 a piece...

[masss11]

Here are the photos..
http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-12/1126595/sniper-Jan25-2007_02.jpg


http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-12/1126595/sniper-Jan252007_01.jpg

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-12/1126595/thumbnail5.jpg

You can virtually fins anything in Lebanon.. But where did that fellow find ammo for this 7.92mm 1944 MG ??

[Robbee]

Yeah...u r right...the best test is to fire the thing...I hope to be able to fire it in the immediate future...

just wish I had it on new years eve...its common practice over here to shoot at midnight...this year I shot the AK...emptied around 6 clips...:D

people were shooting with FN MAGs, M60s, handguns of all shapes and sizes...thats the only time in the year when law enforcement turns a blind eye :D

Forgive my ignorance, but I've never had the opportunity to ask anyone from the region.
Do people get hurt/killed by the falling rounds during these celebrations?
With all the shooting, do people take the opportunity to attempt murders etc?

[Scottie]

You can virtually fins anything in Lebanon.. But where did that fellow find ammo for this 7.92mm 1944 MG ??

Maybe I read wrong, but somewhere it said the 8x57 mm can also be used with the with the MP 44? The 8x57 was used for the Mauser98 Model.

[LF_Dragunov]

Here are the photos..
http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-12/1126595/sniper-Jan25-2007_02.jpg


http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-12/1126595/sniper-Jan252007_01.jpg

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-12/1126595/thumbnail5.jpg

You can virtually fins anything in Lebanon.. But where did that fellow find ammo for this 7.92mm 1944 MG ??
man you can find all sorts of ammo here...

there re guns that are considered as collectors items outside lebanon but are sold for cheap here because they date back to 1910-1920...

the pictures are from the January 25th riots which tool place in western suburbs of Beirut between hezbollah goons and pro-government supporters...

the black kuffiah around the neck of the guy running with the gun tells hes a a pro-hezbollah shiite ... when u say hezbollh, those guys hve stocks of weapons stshed across the country...so getting ammo for them is not a big deal...

hopefully the country will be rid of them soon

[LF_Dragunov]

Forgive my ignorance, but I've never had the opportunity to ask anyone from the region.
Do people get hurt/killed by the falling rounds during these celebrations?
With all the shooting, do people take the opportunity to attempt murders etc?
some rounds do eventually make it down to earth...although I never heard of anyone killed by fall offs...I've seen cars messed up though...

as for people being killed...accidents do occur...whether they are really accidents or not...thats another thing alltogether...

[CPLHUNTER]

hehehehe welcome to lebanon man...u can buy anything from a 22LR handgun to a MAG machine gun...or even an RPG7 ;)

Damn, I live in the wrong country...can you legally own a MAG mg or RPG7?

[Adam Wilhelm]

Maybe I read wrong, but somewhere it said the 8x57 mm can also be used with the with the MP 44? The 8x57 was used for the Mauser98 Model.

No, it cannot be used in a MP44/Stg44.
Stg44 uses 7,92x33 and the K98 7,92x57.
The G43/K43 uses the same ammo as the Kar98 though.
And Fg42, Mg34 and Mg 42. p-)

[masss11]

and according to my knowledge its kind of impossible to find 7.92mm ammo especially that none produced such ammo since 1945.. It was rumored that East Germany had stashes of these, but who knows for sure..

in any case, a Hesbi goon was seen shooting it against our neigborhood in Beirut not long ago :)

.. and they say WE are armed !!

:) :)

[Hydro]

7.92x33mm was produced in the DDR until 1961. Also produced in the former Yugoslavia,the yugos used the MP44 until the 1980's..

[LF_Dragunov]

Syria had very close ties with Eastern block countries and ex USSR...so you re most likely to find stashes over in damascus...which is one of the prime suppliers of hezbollah...

or it could simply have been that the guy hd the gun in a closet with a couple of filled up mags and its been sitting there for years until it ws pulled out that day...

[LF_Dragunov]

there is also the possibility tht the MP44 ws rechambered for another round...you would be surprised what gets done in certin areas

[masss11]

Yes this is possible, although it is a crime to mess with such a stunning history item.. damn i wish i could lay my hands on it, or on an MP-40. I knwo there were a lot here before.. There was an LF guy by the name of Hitler who used to collect them..

[LF_Dragunov]

I agree it is a crime to mess with such a hostorical piece...yet it hs been done in the past...recently a friend purchased an M16A1 1982 model (brand new condition, never been shot, still in the original wraps) just to cut it and make it a shorty like the one I posted this thread about...some people dont care about historical value of things...

Oh and by the way, to all those that nswered my concerns about the gas port...turns out you can buy them as part of a kit...the whole thing: gas port, handgrips and stock for about $700...so no need to mess with existing settings...just replace old with new...

[masss11]

Cutting an M-16 is no problem, as the M-16 is still a production item.. Not like a German WWII item.

As for your shorty, well, is there a place where i can buy a short barrell? or should i cut mine out as well?

[LF_Dragunov]

Well I was proposed a complete M4 upper receiver last week for 1200$...but it is an overkill IMO...

the pros of getting a different receiver are that you get to keep both long and short barrels...just chnge receivers and eventually stocks..

but then its cheaper to cut it off...costs around 200$...you'd have to get the handguards though...I hear you can order them via DHL or similar shipping agents...

where r u t in Lebanon by the way (if I may ask)?

[masss11]

I sent you a private message..