Libby Guilty

[tyovan]

libby has been found guilty on 4/5 counts - just announced live


Former White House aide I. Lewis "Scooter" Libby has been found guilty on four of five counts in his perjury and obstruction of justice trial.

Libby, 56, faces a maximum sentence of 25 years in prison and a fine of $1 million.

Libby was convicted of obstruction of justice, making a false statement and two counts of perjury.

Jurors cleared him of a second count of making a false statement.

The indictment against the former aide to Vice President **** Cheney concerned how Valerie Plame was outed as a CIA operative and what Libby said to a grand jury concerning the case.

Libby was not accused of exposing Plame. He resigned in 2005 after the grand jury indicted him.

Prosecutors contended Libby disclosed Plame's covert profession to reporters as part of a plan to discredit her husband, Joseph Wilson, a former ambassador who alleged that the Bush administration twisted some intelligence in the run-up to the Iraq war.

Wilson, who conducted a CIA-sponsored trip to Niger, wrote in a July 2003 New York Times editorial that he found no evidence Iraq sought to buy uranium from the African nation, as the administration claimed.

The jury was down to 11 members -- seven women and four men. A week ago, one of the jurors revealed that she had obtained outside information that prompted the judge to disqualify her.

The defense said it would accept 11 jurors to avoid having to start deliberations over with an alternate. The prosecution objected, but U.S. District Judge Reggie B. Walton overruled, and the panel has continued with one chair empty.

Testimony and evidence in the trial began January 23.


http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/03/06/cia.leak/index.html

[Klepto]

http://www.yahoo.com/s/523535

[Jobu]

My spider sense is tingling. I sense...a pardon.

[helomech]

Hang 'em high......

*cue the theme from The Good,The Bad and The ugly*

[phoilme]

I hope he gets the chair. How dare he do that thing that the jury didn't know what he did and all I know is that he is evil and he will regret the day when he did that thing that got him into this mess and I hope to see him swing for doing that thing!

[phoilme]

12345678910

[2Sheds_Jackson]

Libby is guilty? Well I suppose that depends on what the meaning of the word 'is' is. If the--if he--if 'is' means is and never has been, that is not--that is one thing. If it means there is none, that was a completely true statement....Now, if someone had asked me on that day, is Libby guilty, that is, asked me a question in the present tense, I would have said no. And it would have been completely true.

Sorry, couldn't resist. He should have learned from the master. But it's just never a good idea to lie to investigators - they write things down.

[Dronetek]

Guilty of what? I'm still amazed by this verdict considering none of the witnesses could remember anything.

btw, HAY GUYZ!

[Elemental666]

Dronetek! woot
Welcome back mate,nice to see you posting again.

[Jobu]

I smell a pardon coming.

[shocker1]

My God this expensive, tax payer funded witch hunt found a victim. What the hell is this all really about? A he said she said fiasco and the subject of conversation outing some CIA desk analyist lost credability long ago. Armitage ran his mouth about really nothing and Libby had a brain fart. Now the high minded prosecuter says a serious breach of national security took place. I must ask why Stick fingers Berger is still hob knobbing with the Washington elites at their $1000 dinner parties? What a waste of resources this was. At the expensive of ignoring construction trailer enigmas and fireplace archive paper cremation.

[MoFo]

Hey drone, its great to see you back here mate.

[Meph]

My guess is that he will soon have an "accident" and drop dead.

[fargo]

Ken Lay style ;)

[2Sheds_Jackson]

Well, I admit that I share your feelings to a certain extent, but overall I think this wrapped up nicely. This was positioned as a fishing expedition to try to catch as many key players under oath as possible, use it as a public forum on the run-up to the war, and generally drag the administration through the mud. Funny thing happened though - about half way through - they figured out that it wasn't the administration that was the bad guy - State (the church of St. Powell) turned out to be the evil doer, and there were plenty of unpleasant overtones exposed about the selection of Wilson for the job...exactly what the administration wanted to point out from the beginning.

In other words - apart from Libby being a dip5hit and lying to the court, IMHO this all served the purposes the administration intended from the beginning with the leak of the name.

[shocker1]

Well then this prosecuter should head up our WMD intel unit. He was able to glean convictions from a branch off case that came from accusations that where misconstrued towards the wrong dipshiat. Seems he would fit right in to the mountian of a mole hill club.

[Jobu]

Once a special prosecutor is unsheathed, he must find someone to charge something with whether a crime was ever committed or not. It's like the samurai code for them.

[Count Lippe]

And blame the ****ing media too, they did most of the work in blowing the agent's cover...:bash:

[2Sheds_Jackson]

Well then this prosecuter should head up our WMD intel unit. He was able to glean convictions from a branch off case that came from accusations that where misconstrued towards the wrong dipshiat. Seems he would fit right in to the mountian of a mole hill club.

I like to defend this administration when I think they're being unfairly criticized - but it does appear to me that Libby lied under oath. He broke a cardinal rule - he told different stories at different times. If you're gonna lie, at least be consistent in your lie so that you're not your own worst enemy. p-)

They didn't get him for outing an agent, or exposing secrets, or making up intel to start a war, or helping the administration do it - they simply caught him in a lie. A lie about something entirely legal. Like telling a judge you went to the store on Monday, then telling another judge you went to the store on Tuesday. Yet the media continues to form a naked human pyramid of jackassery and try to make this story what it is not. Every report on it goes on and on about WMD and lies and distortions - all of that has been put to bed, without a single indictment. That's the real story behind this non-story IMHO.

[Dronetek]

So, when does fitz go after William Jefferson and Sandy Burglar? It seems to me that you have actual evidence against them, as opposed to a bunch of witnesses that cant remember anything.

How can anyone sit back and accept this crap, while democrats gleefuly break the law with no consequences?



They didn't get him for outing an agent, or exposing secrets, or making up intel to start a war, or helping the administration do it
You better tell that to Chris Mathews. Hes on TV right now drolling and slobering, while he makes those exact charges.


Seriously, there is drool on his chin right now.

[phoilme]

No bias in the media. Just ask the media.

[Mr. JOSHUA]

I smell a pardon coming.

How did you know about the mp.net pardon?

Are you leaking classified information?

Zionist Conspirator!



Regardles of the fact he was found guilty, that still doesn't change the fact that Plame was not an undercover agent and the fact that every dip sh*t in the country and the media now hold Plame and Wilson at rockstar status.

[phoilme]

Just the staus they aspire for. Not earned. I think this is more than just name dropping. I think it's a concocted scheme to garner more anti-war sentiment. Buy the book!

[Mr. JOSHUA]

I think this is more than just name dropping. I think it's a concocted scheme to garner more anti-war sentiment. Buy the book!


Yeah, that too!

What book? This book?

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/7/75/Liberalismisamentaldisease.jpg

[shocker1]

I like to defend this administration when I think they're being unfairly criticized - but it does appear to me that Libby lied under oath. He broke a cardinal rule - he told different stories at different times. If you're gonna lie, at least be consistent in your lie so that you're not your own worst enemy. p-)

They didn't get him for outing an agent, or exposing secrets, or making up intel to start a war, or helping the administration do it - they simply caught him in a lie. A lie about something entirely legal. Like telling a judge you went to the store on Monday, then telling another judge you went to the store on Tuesday. Yet the media continues to form a naked human pyramid of jackassery and try to make this story what it is not. Every report on it goes on and on about WMD and lies and distortions - all of that has been put to bed, without a single indictment. That's the real story behind this non-story IMHO.
Oh, I agree that Libby nailed his own coffin because he was not to sure if he did anything wrong or not. It's kinda like getting the blue lights before getting out of the drive way. You know something serious is amiss and begin to remember dreams and things people said you said. Before you know it you have convinced yourself you must have done something and begin to spout lies to avoid the unknown unavoidable. Then you find out they were looking for the neighbor after you lied to the man. However there are more serious things like Berger and Hillary's criminal attempt at Southern drawl in Alabama. That my friend is a serious crime in my book.p-)

[Klepto]

Heh. I seem to recall a "witch hunt" on perjury and obstruction, oh, about 8 years ago...

[shocker1]

Heh. I seem to recall a "witch hunt" on perjury and obstruction, oh, about 8 years ago...
Me too and that was a waste of money also. The Newt Repubs were mad because they missed out on S and M's. This kinda special prosecuter stuff when unleashed will destroy without regard for any real justice. Clinton did not deserve to be asked about his *** habits on national TV. However he was just as stupid as Libby for telling fibs. Clinton must have been scared of that gorilla wife of his. I know she makes my skin crawl and ruins my lunch sometimes when I watch the news eating.

[Dronetek]

Me too and that was a waste of money also. The Newt Repubs were mad because they missed out on S and M's. This kinda special prosecuter stuff when unleashed will destroy without regard for any real justice. Clinton did not deserve to be asked about his *** habits on national TV. However he was just as stupid as Libby for telling fibs. Clinton must have been scared of that gorilla wife of his. I know she makes my skin crawl and ruins my lunch sometimes when I watch the news eating.

Who could forget Mrs. Bill Clinton constant use of "I don't recall that"?


Clinton must have been scared of that gorilla wife of his.
You do realize that Cliton lied while being investigated for rape and ****** harrasment, right?

[shocker1]

Who could forget Mrs. Bill Clinton constant use of "I don't recall that"?



You do realize that Cliton lied while being investigated for rape and ****** harrasment, right?
Trust me I watched every moment of that soap opra. Oh and I am sure that chubby intern was forced to get nasty with the Pres.:roll: She was trying to get ahead oh wait Clinton was attemting that. It was a national disgrace that was no big deal until the press feed on it. BTW welcome back!

[Dronetek]

How are rape alligations, "no big deal"?


Thanks, glad to be back.

[shocker1]

How are rape alligations, "no big deal"?


Thanks, glad to be back.
They are a big deal but I have a real hard time finding credability in that. Come on this was blackmail, she was paid IMO to dupe the duper. Then she has a wonderful story to pass on to her grandchildren. I am a conservative but when this crap destroy's the respect the office demands a crime against the country has been commited. Out of JFK, RK and Clinton the only womanizer caught was Clinton. The others were found out but the media could not sell air time bashing those guys. I wonder why Robert is not in jail though. Guess the Kennedy family has many strings.

Anyway back to Libby lying about something he had no idea what it was to lie about. Is Bergular still grilling archives?

[Calanen]

I like to defend this administration when I think they're being unfairly criticized - but it does appear to me that Libby lied under oath. He broke a cardinal rule - he told different stories at different times. If you're gonna lie, at least be consistent in your lie so that you're not your own worst enemy. p-)



Or take the 5th and say nothing at all.

[bugkill]

what a freakin' waste of american tax money! the issue was about the outing of a "covert" cia agent, but there was no charge for committing that crime. this whole thing is about talking to some journalists and "maybe" spoke her name and said that she was joe wilson's wife, big freakin' deal!!!

this whole thing is truly ridiculous and it makes no sense. nobody remembered what they said during that time and it was just a whole big mess, who can you believe? most importantly, what about the crime of "revealing a covert cia agent"? easy, she NEVER was covert in the first place and this whole thing is a political fur ball!

nothing big about this at all.

[2Sheds_Jackson]

They are a big deal but I have a real hard time finding credability in that. Come on this was blackmail, she was paid IMO to dupe the duper.

Mmmm "she"? Which one? Jones, Broddrick, Willey or Flowers? For Clinton to to be believed, there is a long, long list of people who must be lying. For the record, the only woman he did not manage to smear was Tripp, who had the good sense to turn on a tape recorder so there would be no question...and of course that's all it took to bring him down. Remember Hillary wrote her Senior Thesis at Wellesley College on Saul Alinsky - a radical liberal who's favorite motto was ""Pick the target, freeze it, personalize it and polarize it." It just doesn't work so well with a tape recorder. :)

Womanizing as a private citizen is one thing. For a private citizen who's a married man - the only risk is his marriage and property. For a President, the risk is much, much higher. *** is used as a means to an end by those seeking favor (which unquestionably some of the women Clinton was involved with were doing, and he obliged tit for tat - Tripp, a rather homely woman with nothing to "sell" him, for example, was pretty pissed off at what she saw going on), and those with nefarious intent who would use blackmail to get something for nothing. IMHO if all Clinton cost us was a few million dollars and national disgrace, we should consider ourselves lucky.

[shocker1]

Mmmm "she"? Which one? Jones, Broddrick, Willey or Flowers? For Clinton to to be believed, there is a long, long list of people who must be lying. For the record, the only woman he did not manage to smear was Tripp, who had the good sense to turn on a tape recorder so there would be no question...and of course that's all it took to bring him down. Remember Hillary wrote her Senior Thesis at Wellesley College on Saul Alinsky - a radical liberal who's favorite motto was ""Pick the target, freeze it, personalize it and polarize it." It just doesn't work so well with a tape recorder. :)

Womanizing as a private citizen is one thing. For a private citizen who's a married man - the only risk is his marriage and property. For a President, the risk is much, much higher. *** is used as a means to an end by those seeking favor (which unquestionably some of the women Clinton was involved with were doing, and he obliged tit for tat - Tripp, a rather homely woman with nothing to "sell" him, for example, was pretty pissed off at what she saw going on), and those with nefarious intent who would use blackmail to get something for nothing. IMHO if all Clinton cost us was a few million dollars and national disgrace, we should consider ourselves lucky.
Alright you got me there. I cannot defend him anymore here, I was alot younger then and those memories are in that context. Gettin freaky in the White House sounded cool at the time.:) You showed me the dark side.

[ibstolidude]

Like Bill or dislike bill aside, such behavior would jeopardize a normal persons access to cleared information.

[Klepto]

Mmmm "she"? Which one? Jones, Broddrick, Willey or Flowers? For Clinton to to be believed, there is a long, long list of people who must be lying. For the record, the only woman he did not manage to smear was Tripp, who had the good sense to turn on a tape recorder so there would be no question...and of course that's all it took to bring him down. Remember Hillary wrote her Senior Thesis at Wellesley College on Saul Alinsky - a radical liberal who's favorite motto was ""Pick the target, freeze it, personalize it and polarize it." It just doesn't work so well with a tape recorder. :)

Womanizing as a private citizen is one thing. For a private citizen who's a married man - the only risk is his marriage and property. For a President, the risk is much, much higher. *** is used as a means to an end by those seeking favor (which unquestionably some of the women Clinton was involved with were doing, and he obliged tit for tat - Tripp, a rather homely woman with nothing to "sell" him, for example, was pretty pissed off at what she saw going on), and those with nefarious intent who would use blackmail to get something for nothing. IMHO if all Clinton cost us was a few million dollars and national disgrace, we should consider ourselves lucky.


Meh, most of those guys are ****. Not really that I could blame them. If I had a steady stream of hot interns I'd be in trouble too. :oops:




Corrupt old white men, yay! woot

[2Sheds_Jackson]

I think Libby should pay some price here - he did lie after all. Considering what others have received for similar offenses though, I doubt he'll get 30 years. Alger Hiss served 44 months. Martha Stewart got 5 months. Lil' Kim got 1 year. Clinton was fined for contempt and disbarred.

[budgie]

Nice to see some consistency 2sheds

[2Sheds_Jackson]

Nice to see some consistency 2sheds

I'm one consistent bastard.

I caught this quote from a story on the MSNBC site;



“I’m not saying we didn’t think Mr. Libby was guilty of the things we found him guilty of,” Collins said. “It seemed like he was, as Mr. Wells [Ted Wells, Libby’s attorney] put it, he was the fall guy.”
In fact, Collins said, the focus on Libby frustrated the jurors, who had hoped to get a crack at the larger issues.
“What we’re in court deciding seems to be a level or two down from what, before we went into the jury, we supposed the trial was about, or had been initially about, which was who leaked” Plame’s identity.


Well it appears that the media did it's job pretty well, as even the prospective jurors where completely blindsided by what the trial was actually about. I can just see them all sitting there, being lectured by the judge about the minuscule scope of the trial, and they're all suddenly crestfallen. "Awwww. We wanted to convict that mean lookin' Cheney feller". That doesn't seem to be holding the press back though - they're spinning this so hard that before the end of they day, they'll have Cheney responsible for kidnapping the Lindbergh baby.

[NewsMan]

This was positioned as a fishing expedition to try to catch as many key players under oath as possible...


Sounds like something Ken Starr would do?!

[remo williams]

but it does appear to me that Libby lied under oath. He broke a cardinal rule - he told different stories at different times. If you're gonna lie, at least be consistent in your lie so that you're not your own worst enemy. p-)



True , but to me I see thae fact that he did lie as a an indication of how confident he, and most likely, many others were that they would never be prosecuted. Could you have imagined at any point in 02'-03 that what they were doing would be discovered and prosecuted. Especially if the war went better than it did. Imo, the attitude of the country, and the amount of (to a degree, honestly) trust we all placed in our leaders,as well as the intel being disclosed. Gave an awful lot of room for chicanery. Which we now are seeing unraveling. I'm not getting into the "partisan" debate if it's a smear or unfair criticism. It is what it is, which is the reality we're in. I just believe that if you do something that you thought through. For a good reason. You generally don't have to defend it later. 2Sheds, I am interested in what purpose you believed this trial occurred.

[Durandal]

So, when does fitz go after William Jefferson and Sandy Burglar? It seems to me that you have actual evidence against them, as opposed to a bunch of witnesses that cant remember anything.

How can anyone sit back and accept this crap, while democrats gleefuly break the law with no consequences?

WTF are you talking about? The Republicans cried foul as soon as Jerfferson's office was raided.

But yeah blame the democrats.

Man you bitches sound like all the loons that supported Martha Stewart. Libby and Stewart have two things in common. Both are ƒucking liars and think they are above the law.

Just like CLinton, who should have been impeached completely...but noooo...the Republican's screwed that up as well.

You could have had Jefferson, but the Republicans did not want the executive branch mucking around in the REPUBLICAN controlled Congress.

[phoilme]

I don't see where Libby lied. What I do see is a very disturbing presidence or a tool the left can use to falsely discredit a person, a group, a party in which they disagree. Look at how the willing media lapped the "convictions" up like Barney Frank laps up man batter. And now an indolent and stupid American public can let the willing media tell them what just happend and what it means. Already hinting that this is "just the tip of the iceberg of a corrupt administration that got us into Iraq for hedonistic reasons." Only in America can the media rest easy knowing that fat, lazy and stupid Americans will either be too lazy to realize what this is really about or have better things to concern themselves about. Is it any wonder that in America Dominos, McDonald's, bottled water, sell like hotcakes? Americans love crap. Love buying it. And now at the risk of a very cloudy future they are buying this large pile of steaming crap.

[fargo]

At the end of the day someone in the CIA, who probably would rather not have been, was named. Anyone who does that to someone who is serving their country, in a very sensitive situation, for purely political reasons deserves all the jail time they get.

[Jobu]

This was nothing but infighting amongst the Admin, the State Dept, and the CIA.

Plame was not a covert agent therefore no crime was committed. The CIA has never looked so incompetent since they failed on 9/11 and on Iraq's WMD an they blame Bush for that since he believed them and acted on their suggestions. So the CIA referred the supposed "leak" to the Justice Dpt. It was quickly determined that Richard Armitage from the State Dept was the one who revealed the Plame/Wilson angle but by then Chuck Schumer had convinced Ashcroft to appoint a special prosecutor, Patrick Fitzgerald.

Once a special prosecutor is unleashed, nothing will stop him from prosecuting someone for something, even if no crime was committed. He'll keep at it until he can create a crime, and that's exactly what he did.

[ElHombre]

Plame was not a covert agent therefore no crime was committed.

Jeez, even 2_Sheds doesn't use that excuse anymore. :lol: Here's an update for you: If Plame hadn't been covert, Fitz wouldn't have been able to even get a trial. He had to provide his evidence to several people that Plame was covert. Libby's lawyers didn't even try to say Plame wasn't covert, thus conceeding the point that Plame was, in fact, a covert member of the CIA at the time of the offense.

[bugkill]

At the end of the day someone in the CIA, who probably would rather not have been, was named. Anyone who does that to someone who is serving their country, in a very sensitive situation, for purely political reasons deserves all the jail time they get.

dude, the chick was in a book and her face was everywhere with this guy (wilson). there is no story here! it is all a big flap over who say what and the supposed crime of "outing" was never proven. libby is found guilty of lying about telling someone that "wilson's wife, valerie plame, sent him to africa" and i ask the question "who f**kin' cares"???????

they were looking for a controversy and they fooled almost everyone because they used her job status as a cover to make the story bigger than what it was. did the bush adminstration "out" a covert agent? that was the headlines, but everyone had already knew that she was not COVERT!!! therefore, there is NO crime committed, except libby created one for himself.
LMAO

[Kant]

I hope he's just as quick catching the soap in the prison shower as he was in outing Plame.

[Dronetek]

I hope he's just as quick catching the soap in the prison shower as he was in outing Plame.

Lol, HE DIDNT OUT PLAME! This case had nothing to do with that! The guy who did out plame hasnt even been charged!

[Durandal]

Lol, HE DIDNT OUT PLAME! This case had nothing to do with that! The guy who did out plame hasnt even been charged!

No true, he did not. This about committing a felony. Lying under oath. We need to get every political type in the Legislature and the Executive branches every time they do.

[shocker1]

Jeez, even 2_Sheds doesn't use that excuse anymore. :lol: Here's an update for you: If Plame hadn't been covert, Fitz wouldn't have been able to even get a trial. He had to provide his evidence to several people that Plame was covert. Libby's lawyers didn't even try to say Plame wasn't covert, thus conceeding the point that Plame was, in fact, a covert member of the CIA at the time of the offense.
Libby is obviously a lier. However I thought the judge in this case did not allow evidence proving what Plame was. So in the end Libby lied about nothing really but lied none the less. Are you as zealot about Berger's construction trailer hide and seek, archive roasting fiasco?:roll: Why is he not being prosecuted? If you or I were to wisk documents out of the National Archives, we would be under the jail by now. IMO this is just as serious if not more so than Libby lying, but then again Libby was not the one running his mouth in the first place.

[Dronetek]

Are you as zealot about Berger's construction trailer hide and seek, archive roasting fiasco?:roll: Why is he not being prosecuted?

This is whats steaming conservatives and republicans all over the country. You have William Jerrferson who had 900,000 in his freezer and Sandy Burger stealing documents and you never hear about either one of them! Neither are being prosecuted and its pissing people off.

[shocker1]

This is whats steaming conservatives and republicans all over the country. You have William Jerrferson who had 900,000 in his freezer and Sandy Burger stealing documents and you never hear about either one of them! Neither are being prosecuted and its pissing people off.
x2 Haul all of the bums to jail. Libby was found guilty, he deserved it. Intergrity is lacking in Washington and this goes for all of them. Rooting for someone to be convicted based on party is dishonest at best. The people who feel some kind of gratification when someone of the opposite party gets caught lying cheating, stealing are just as much of a problem as the asshats breaking the law. It makes me sad, disappointed and angry when anyone in Washington breaks the public trust. It is made worse by people turing blind eyes to the one with the correct letter in the column.

[bugkill]

Jeez, even 2_Sheds doesn't use that excuse anymore. :lol: Here's an update for you: If Plame hadn't been covert, Fitz wouldn't have been able to even get a trial. He had to provide his evidence to several people that Plame was covert. Libby's lawyers didn't even try to say Plame wasn't covert, thus conceeding the point that Plame was, in fact, a covert member of the CIA at the time of the offense.

dude, if that were true, charges would have been brought. what you wrote makes no sense because everyone would have pursued the "outing" charge and not this stupid thing with libby, which amounts to nothing (will be forgotten in another week).

if plame was a covert agent, this thing would still be on trial and those involved would be facing some serious s**t. in the end, this whole thing will only hurt reporters. they will not be trusted and i bet the administration will close ranks after all that has gone down.

[phoilme]

There was never integrity in Washington and Plame was never about this case. IF you got the truth today about whether she was an op or not, the answer would be "no". I don't know where you idiots who say she was are getting your information. How the hell would you know? Let's not face the facts of the matter though. That vindicates Libby and you dems don't want that - not with a fat, lazy and stupid public in America that is directed by your lies and threats. I.e. If you vote for a republican babies will die and seniors will starve and gays will be drug from pick-up turcks and blacks will be lynched. You know, basic characteristics of those red-neck, wife-beating, Jesus loving, gay-hating, SUV-driving, BBQing, Gun-toating, chew-spiting, beer-drinking, confederate flag-waving, chld-raping republicans. Just look at the idiot Bush!
Hey Dems! I'm looking forward to Civil War II

[Beowulf]

Like Bill or dislike bill aside, such behavior would jeopardize a normal persons access to cleared information.

**** even doing stuff while separated or pending divorce would jeopardize that, and don't even think about surfin "horsesandmidgets.com"

Just to ride a desk in some places takes a 60 page app process and a lifestyle poly, and the CINC can have sketchy real estate deals, perjure himself and cheat on his wife....I should have gone into politics....

[Royal]

....I should have gone into politics....

There's still time.

What's your platform?

[Dronetek]

I'm looking forward to Civil War II


2 years ago I would have laughed at you. Now, I'm not so sure. It just seems like the left wing/media isnt even trying to hide their lies and bias anymore and tensions are rising. Hell, even Tuker Carlson said the other day that, "we could have a civil war on our hands here. (while talking about political tensions in the US)

[phoilme]

You can still laugh at me. I crack-up the gals at work all day. When I'm not busting my arse that is.

[California Joe]

Tucker also said that right after the birth of his 4th child, Anne Coulter called him a faggot in an article.

[2Sheds_Jackson]

Jeez, even 2_Sheds doesn't use that excuse anymore. :lol: Here's an update for you: If Plame hadn't been covert, Fitz wouldn't have been able to even get a trial. He had to provide his evidence to several people that Plame was covert. Libby's lawyers didn't even try to say Plame wasn't covert, thus conceeding the point that Plame was, in fact, a covert member of the CIA at the time of the offense.

Hey wait now, I reserve the right to revisit all kinds of dumb excuses. p-)

Let's look at this one. Fitzgerald got a trial because the government demanded an investigation - which, as we have already established, can be for a valid issue, or a merit-less political witch hunt. During this particular useless investigation, he caught somebody in a lie, and the trial was convened to address that lie. Nothing else. Nothing about the particulars of the original investigation. The Libby trial had exactly nothing to do with outing Plame. Nothing. Nobody was convicted of outing her. Nobody was even charged with outing her.

As to who actually outed her, it was her husband, Wilson. It was Wilson who leveraged his wife to get the Africa trip and perpetuate his Washington Rock Star status. It was Wilson who wrote a factually incorrect report about it. It was Wilson who then politicized his supposedly non-political trip by again lying and throwing the VP's office under the bus. The VP's office was fully entitled to defend itself, and it did, within government circles - then Wilson - allegedly so concerned for his wife's "covert" status - blows the issue up and takes it public, demanding an inquiry, erasing any chance of his wife's status remaining unknown. If Plame really was covert, and her husband really wanted her to remain that way, not a single one of us would have ever heard of either of them.

[phoilme]

2Sheds, you can't bring logic into this argument. And your facts won't help you either. Them media wants nothing to do with that garbage. Let's just let the liberal utopia take its course.

[RECON DOC]

Am I the only one that sees the ****edupedness of a 56 year old man going by his elementary school playground nickname "Scooter"?!?!? Never mind a position in the government, I wouldent trust the guy with my ****ing laundry.

[shocker1]

Am I the only one that sees the ****edupedness of a 56 year old man going by his elementary school playground nickname "Scooter"?!?!? Never mind a position in the government, I wouldent trust the guy with my ****ing laundry.
I always pictured a buck toothed boy at a fast lube when I hear the name Scooter.

[California Joe]

At least **** "Booger" Cheney stopped using his nickname before the election.

[RECON DOC]

I always pictured a buck toothed boy at a fast lube when I hear the name Scooter.

http://www.funshop.com/images/fs_ct211cl_s.jpg


At least **** "Booger" Cheney stopped using his nickname before the election.

Hahahahahaha

[Teme]

Foreign intelligence services must be having a field day tracing back years to find out who Valerie Plame had contacts with and which cover companies she worked overseas.

Motivating current and future CIA operatives may be hard now. Some of them have to put their lives on the line while their and their colleagues careers can be put to an end or compromised by a mouthy/vengeful politician.

[Lov3ll]

Libby set to win pardon and escape jail term
By Toby Harnden in Washington
Last Updated: 10:39am GMT 08/03/2007

Toby Harnden: Libby will not go to jail (http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/foreign/tobyharnden/mar07/libby1.htm)

A White House official said last night that there was a "strong expectation" that President George W Bush would pardon Lewis "Scooter" Libby, the disgraced aide.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/graphics/2007/03/08/wlibby08.jpg
Lewis 'Scooter' Libby leaves the courthouse with his lawyers

The former chief of staff to Vice President **** Cheney was found guilty of perjury and obstruction of justice on Tuesday in a case linked to the unmasking of a covert CIA operative. If the conviction is upheld, he is expected to be jailed for two years.
But an administration official said that it was highly unlikely that Libby would go to prison. "There's a lot of anger about the way Libby has been treated," he said.
"There's a strong expectation that if it comes to it, then the president will pardon him."
The official said that advisers to Mr Bush believed that Patrick Fitzgerald, the special prosecutor who charged Libby, had pursued a "political vendetta" against the White House and that no one had committed any crime.
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"I don't think anything will happen yet, though. There's an appeal to come and perhaps Libby will get off then."
Libby is due to be sentenced in June but his defence team has said it will press for a retrial and, if that is denied, will appeal against his conviction. It could be close to the end of Mr Bush's second term in January 2009 before a jail sentence would begin.
Democrats are vehemently opposed to Libby being pardoned and have called on Mr Bush to rule out the option. Tony Snow, Mr Bush's press secretary, declined even to address the subject.
"All of this conversation, speculation about a pardon, I know, makes for interesting speculation, but it's just that," Mr Snow said yesterday. He added that Mr Bush was "careful" about giving out pardons. "These are not things to be treated blithely. He wants to make sure that anybody who receives one, that it's warranted, but I would caution against any speculation in this case,"
David Frum, a former White House speech writer, said that he expected Mr Bush, who had previously shown loyalty to his staff and was not afraid to make decisions that were politically unpopular, to pardon Libby if needed.
"Everyone assumes that he will. My guess is that it will not be very politically explosive because everyone feels Libby is the wrong person."
Denis Collins, a jury member, said after the verdicts that jurors felt Libby was a "fall guy" and that some had speculated why others such as Karl Rove, Mr Bush's political counsellor, were not on trial. Mr Fitzgerald had said in court that a "cloud remains" over Mr Cheney.
Libby's supporters, however, believe the villain in the case is Richard Armitage, the former US Secretary of State, who admitted that he was the official who first revealed the identity of Valerie Plame, a covert CIA operative, to a journalist. Mr Armitage, an Iraq war critic, said he had not known about Miss Plame's covert status.
Mr Frum said there was a "farcical quality" to the trial because people were being told that Miss Plame's status was the "secret of the century" while the official responsible had escaped unpunished.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/03/08/wlibby08.xml

:|

[ElHombre]

Let's look at this one. Fitzgerald got a trial because the government demanded an investigation - which, as we have already established, can be for a valid issue, or a merit-less political witch hunt.

Alas for you, the CIA considers the revealing of its agents to be a Bad Idea. It tends to make the CIA's main job of gathering information a tad harder because it gets their sources killed. Back in the 80s, they convinced then VP (and former CIA Director) George H.W. Bush to get a law passed by POTUS Reagan which makes it a crime.


During this particular useless investigation, he caught somebody in a lie, and the trial was convened to address that lie. Nothing else. Nothing about the particulars of the original investigation. The Libby trial had exactly nothing to do with outing Plame. Nothing. Nobody was convicted of outing her. Nobody was even charged with outing her.

Not to worry. Fitzgerald addressed your issues at the beginning of the trial. In short, during his investigation about the original crime (the public outing of a covert CIA operative), Libby gave several different stories to the ivestigators and the grand jury. Doing that is against the law because it prevents the proper investigation of the original crime. Fitz was able to convinve several groups of people that this was the case and now Libby has been found guilty.

Libby's lying made Fitz's job of determining if anyone broke the law more difficult than it would have if Libby had just told the truth from the start.

As far as a pardon goes, Libby may have a wait (http://www.usdoj.gov/pardon/clemency.htm#pardon). From the DoJ regulations:


§ 1.2 Eligibility for filing petition for pardon.

No petition for pardon should be filed until the expiration of a waiting period of at least five years after the date of the release of the petitioner from confinement or, in case no prison sentence was imposed, until the expiration of a period of at least five years after the date of the conviction of the petitioner. Generally, no petition should be submitted by a person who is on probation, parole, or supervised release.

[2Sheds_Jackson]

Alas for you, the CIA considers the revealing of its agents to be a Bad Idea. It tends to make the CIA's main job of gathering information a tad harder because it gets their sources killed. Back in the 80s, they convinced then VP (and former CIA Director) George H.W. Bush to get a law passed by POTUS Reagan which makes it a crime.

Outing a covert agent may well be a crime, but that doesn't mean that's what happened here. In fact, if it's what happened here, where are the charges? Fitzgerald knew from the beginning who disclosed her name - where is the indictment?



Not to worry. Fitzgerald addressed your issues at the beginning of the trial. In short, during his investigation about the original crime (the public outing of a covert CIA operative), Libby gave several different stories to the ivestigators and the grand jury. Doing that is against the law because it prevents the proper investigation of the original crime. Fitz was able to convinve several groups of people that this was the case and now Libby has been found guilty.

Libby's lying made Fitz's job of determining if anyone broke the law more difficult than it would have if Libby had just told the truth from the start.


Well you're preaching to the choir now. If you read my previous posts (er, including the one you quoted) - I have repeatedly stated that Libby lied (or at least they believed he did) -and that he should therefore pay for it.

However, Libby telling a lie is all that's it's about. Not Plame. Not the war. Not the administration making up intel. Not the administration ordering anybody to leak. Not outing CIA agents. Nothing else.

[akd]

Outing a covert agent may well be a crime, but that doesn't mean that's what happened here.

Intentionally outing an agent is a crime.

[ElHombre]

Outing a covert agent may well be a crime, but that doesn't mean that's what happened here. In fact, if it's what happened here, where are the charges? Fitzgerald knew from the beginning who disclosed her name - where is the indictment?

Looks like he wouldn't be able to prove it in court. The inability of one of the people he questioned to tell the truth didn't help.


However, Libby telling a lie is all that's it's about. Not Plame. Not the war. Not the administration making up intel. Not the administration ordering anybody to leak. Not outing CIA agents. Nothing else.

Think motive: Why was Libby lying?

[bugkill]

Looks like he wouldn't be able to prove it in court. The inability of one of the people he questioned to tell the truth didn't help.



Think motive: Why was Libby lying?

why did joe wilson lie about who sent him (he claimed the bush admin) and what he found out in niger (which his story was proven false)?

[Kant]

Conservatives have the best excuses.
Why do you guys go out of your way to paint this as some great set up, and bring Bill into a discusion about an employee on a government salary who lied to a jury?
He'll be pardoned anyway.

[Durandal]

What I do not understand is WHY, people just don't shut up about all of this?

Its like listening my Mom bitch about how Martha Stewart got the shaft and how she did no wrong...or Clinton for that matter. Libby is just as bad.

They lied while under oath.

That's a felony, plain and simple.

We have laws, in theory, in America, no one is above them.

What needs to change is that we have MORE trials like this.

[NewsMan]

What needs to change is that we have MORE trials like this.

Don't hold your breath, they're coming.