WMD hunters ambushed in Baghdad

[farmgirl]

http://www.upi.com/view.cfm?StoryID=20040426-012022-4432r


By P. Mitchell Prothero
Published 4/26/2004 1:32 PM


BAGHDAD, Iraq, April 26 (UPI) -- An explosion that killed al least three U.S. personnel in Baghdad was an ambush of a top-secret unit detailed to search for weapons of mass destruction, United Press International has confirmed.

The military initially claimed that a detail of U.S. Army soldiers were about to raid a suspected bomb making factory when two were killed after an explosion. Several Iraqis in the area at the time told UPI that the building exploded when the soldiers tried to enter the house.

Although coalition spokesman Maj. Gen. Mark Kimmitt admitted that the owner of the home "was suspected of supplying chemical agents," he refused to confirm that the troops belonged to the top secret Iraq Survey Group, a task force of Central Intelligence Agency, Special Forces soldiers and other biological, chemical and nuclear weapons experts.

Kimmett would only say that, "The inspection was by a number of coalition forces."

But at the scene of the blast in Baghdad's Waziriya district -- which destroyed four military Humvee vehicles -- UPI witnessed clear evidence that the troops belonged to the ISG, including credentials looted from the vehicles by local Iraqi youth.

And just a kilometer from the scene, a dozen Special Forces soldiers had secured part of a hospital for treatment of five wounded soldiers. Their completely anonymous uniforms, lack of unit patches or rank indications, facial hair, personalized weaponry and radically modified military vehicles generally indicate membership in special operations units.

Although coalition officials have said that two Americans were killed in the blast, which leveled the house being raided, and five were wounded, an Iraqi employee of UPI witnessed three uniformed American or British bodies being put into body bags and taken from the scene.

Although laws require the U.S. government to announce the combat deaths of military personnel, it does not generally announce the deaths of intelligence officers or special forces troops operating on classified missions, which could explain the discrepancy in the actual and announced number of those killed in the action.

Neighbors of the facility told UPI that the building raided had been in use as a weapons-making facility used to arm resistance elements in Iraq, but they could not confirm any connection to chemical or biological weapons production.

The neighborhood reacted with joy at the destruction and within minutes of the departure of the U.S. forces from the area began looting the vehicles of helmets, charred weapons and shredded uniforms.

As the crowd gathered around the burning vehicles, children began pelting them with rocks and men used sticks, axes and sledgehammers to break off chunks of the destroyed equipment.

The looting was accompanied by chants of "Yes, yes Moqtada. No, no America!" The cheers referenced radical Shiite cleric Moqtada Sadr, whose militia has been in armed conflict with the coalition forces for nearly a month.

One participant told a reporter "See how Iraqis fight! We will destroy America."

At one point, several men actually started one of the burning vehicles, put the fire out, and drove it around the neighborhood while it spewed oil and black smoke. Crowds of men and boys jumped on top of the vehicle as they took a triumphant victory lap around the neighborhood streets until they came upon the Turkish Embassy.

At the embassy, the guards became unsettled at the sight of a dozen cheering Iraqis riding atop a burnt U.S. military vehicle and opened fire on the crowd of supporters, causing everyone involved to dive for cover. One Iraqi was slightly wounded in that portion of the incident.

At that point the vehicle was set on fire -- again -- and left to burn on one of Baghdad's main streets.

This was not the only violent incident in Iraq Monday, as U.S. Marines continued to insist that a ceasefire remains in effect in Fallujah, the restive city 35 miles west of the capital.

But while the coalition calls the situation a "ceasefire" while a negotiated settlement to the nearly month-long siege of the city, the thousands of anti-coalition fighters dug into the dusty city appear to be preparing less for negotiations and more for their own "Alamo" as they continue to attack Marines at every opportunity.

In meetings this weekend between national security staff and President Bush in Washington, the coalition has decided to try for a political settlement to the siege of Fallujah, which began after four U.S. security contractors were killed and mutilated in an ambush in early April.

The ensuing fighting killed dozens of American soldiers and hundreds of Iraqis. It also saw a mass exodus of refugees from the fighting flooding into Baghdad. Two weeks ago a ceasefire was declared by U.S. troops, but there have been almost daily skirmishes.

But Monday saw the announcement that the U.S. did not plan on a return to a frontal assault on the city, but rather would begin joint Iraqi-American patrols of the city on Thursday.

The response from the insurgents was the bitterest fighting in two weeks that has killed at least one Marine and wounded several others. Reports from Fallujah indicate that vast swaths of the city and being attacked by tanks and helicopters, while insurgents are responding with heavy weapons fire from various fortified positions, putting the ceasefire in dire jeopardy.

Part of the issue making a solution to the unrest in Fallujah difficult is the presence of hundred of foreign fighters from other Arab countries, who refuse to negotiate or surrender.

Copyright © 2001-2004 United Press International

[Uninen]

:roll:

Its old.....

[farmgirl]

:roll:

Its old.....

If you took the time to read the article, you would see that it has some different information than what was posted earlier.

[Uninen]

You mean this?


Although laws require the U.S. government to announce the combat deaths of military personnel, it does not generally announce the deaths of intelligence officers or special forces troops operating on classified missions, which could explain the discrepancy in the actual and announced number of those killed in the action.

Other than that..... its about the same...

[FallenAngel]

Thanks Farmgirl.....very informative post. :)

[Trigger]

Thanks Farmgirl.....very informative post. :)

Yeah, good post.

P.S. F**K OFF Urinenenen

[Argyll]

Uninen...................you are a foking ***** muncher,your contributions to this board have been nothing but negative,why don't you go somewhere you're wanted,you're the worst kind of troll around........fok off back to where you came from

[mustamato]

Uninen...................you are a foking ***** muncher,your contributions to this board have been nothing but negative,why don't you go somewhere you're wanted,you're the worst kind of troll around........fok off back to where you came from

I don´t think the sun is good for you Argyll. You have become so negative
lately. Come back full-time to the chilling cold in these boards instead, you
will do more good as a moderator here than doing whatever you do there.

[AFG]

Uninen...................you are a foking ***** muncher,your contributions to this board have been nothing but negative,why don't you go somewhere you're wanted,you're the worst kind of troll around........fok off back to where you came from

I don´t think the sun is good for you Argyll. You have become so negative
lately. Come back full-time to the chilling cold in these boards instead, you
will do more good as a moderator here than doing whatever you do there.

he cant just come home ya knoe... :bash:

[James]

Uninen, Mustamato,

Do you have anything constructive to post? Any thoughts? If all you are going to do is criticize other members of the forum, I think it would be best if you refrained.

Just a thought.

[mustamato]

Do you have anything constructive to post?

http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/search.php?search_author=mustamato

Let us now compare this with

http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/search.php?search_author=James

[ShotOver]

Shut up mushedtomato, your hijacking a good thread.

This is a very imformative post Farmhoney, thanks alot :D

[American Patriot]

Thank you Argyll, for defending the world.

[kommando]

everytime i come on here to look or to post recently uninen has been somehow negative or been a post-whore
mustamato not so much becuase some stuff siad has been valid. although still a post whore sometimes :lol:
but seriously if someone accidently reposts something, who cares if its a accidental repost farmgirl found something and wanted us to see it i hadnt seen and and i thought it was infomrative so yea
thats all

[Uninen]

Uninen, Mustamato,

Do you have anything constructive to post? Any thoughts? If all you are going to do is criticize other members of the forum, I think it would be best if you refrained.

Just a thought.


everytime i come on here to look or to post recently uninen has been somehow negative or been a post-whore
mustamato not so much becuase some stuff siad has been valid. although still a post whore sometimes :lol:
but seriously if someone accidently reposts something, who cares if its a accidental repost farmgirl found something and wanted us to see it i hadnt seen and and i thought it was infomrative so yea
thats all


BLaaaaaaaaaaaaah, Blaaaah, blaaah......

James, Kommando and others maybe you should shut up about things that you havent got clue about..... like most of you dont, and what becomes to topics started by me, well their usually just totally over your heads, and you dont know anything about the interesting subjects that the topics that i have started have discussed about IE "AAI ADVANCED COMBAT RIFLE" or "Rhodesian anti-ambush devices".......

Now topics like that are quite short lived around here, cause practicly nobody knows about them, now why is that is it because you others are so god damn smart and intelligent, and im so fooking dumb.... or maybe, just maybe its the othersway around... EH?

:cantbeli:

http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=13282

And that, my latest topic, hardly "****" now is it? Its again you that arent interested about a valid and serious subject...... (but really, what can i expect from bunch of kids?), hell its not like Jordanians are as important as Americans, so why would anybody care.... their just Arabs.... like Iraqis.. whom we are happy to slaughter, because they dont want your freedom. So i guess its ok for Al-Qaida to try and gas em.....?

P.S James you ask that if we have "any thoughts", have you lately seen whats up with this forum, cause when people around here speak their minds, their most likely "ganged" by these hooligans soon after.

[HELEX]

By the way..... Argyll, what is your first hand estimation about the progress in Iraq, how long will it take before the Occupants are kicked out? 1 Year, 5 Years or the full 11 Years like in Vietnam?

Did you change your mind about how "welcome" the "liberators" are?

[Rilence]

:roll:

[Truthsayer]

So many posts, so little love.



Ps. Nice to be gone a couple of days and come back to 10 new racists threads btw. Ds.

[shrek]

Hadn't seen the details about them being from the WMD search team. Thanks Farmgirl!

Hey Argyl, you old pint guzzling fart knocker. Give em' hell for me.



Hey umeannothing, urinehead, uneedalife or whatever you call yourself; call your therapist and tell him or her that you still haven't gotten over your inferiority/mama complex!

[Uninen]

shrek,

Thank you. And same goes for Trigger and Argyll, who being so damn mature started this little "flame", i just tryed to be nice and inform that this had already been posted.

And i wasnt being asshole about it.

Then these little pathetic people start to gather here and start taking pot shots at me...

Go figure. :|

Btw, learn something new everyday: Uninen = Sleepy. :slap:

[XASA]

Thanks Farmgirl for the informative post.

It's getting to the point that every other thread is being hijacked by a relatively small group of posters who, when they have nothing of substance to add, go out of their way to start sh**, then, whenever someone responds, they cry "foul". Most of them have no military experience, and, from the nature of their posts, little or no political experience aside from what they read or discuss in their student circles.

As much as they claim they do not like American politics and foreign policy, they spend an inordinate amount of time here "discussing" both as if their opinion will sway others. Here's a clue: As much as we Americans differ on politics, we do not like foreigners telling us what we should do, which is why some of the more vocal members here are so quick to condemn them.

One can only hope they spend an equal amount of time discussing their own countries shortcomings as they do the United States. Then again, most of them live in countries that are minor players on the world stage, so, perhaps that's why they feel like "sharing" their views here because it makes them feel like they are participating in world affairs. Pitiful :roll:

[Trigger]

Well said XASA.

...and just to set urinebreath straight:
Urinebreath wrote:

Thank you. And same goes for Trigger and Argyll, who being so damn mature started this little "flame", i just tryed to be nice and inform that this had already been posted.

And i wasnt being asshole about it.


in reference to:


:roll:

Its old.....

Is that you being 'nice'?
Is that you not being an asshole?

puh-leeeze.
:roll:

[Midtown]

Im still amazed how people who have only been here for less than 6 months have half a billion posts.

[Haiw]

Am I the only one who thinks it's laughable that mustamato wants to compare his post history to that of James? :lol:

[Trigger]

It's a controlled environment. If they tried to spout this much BS in the real world they would get punched in the nose. Here they can post whatever nonsense they want and if a mod doesn't happen to see it, we have to deal with it.

[Catch22]

Its kinda surprising - when it comes to discussing tachnical deatils, tactics or history, particulary of WWII and modern day Russian and Scandinavian weaponry both Uninen and Mustamato are informative, provide good photo material and reading. I'd say they're quite valuable members of MP community - but just let them at some politics/US/Iraq topic - they instantly turn they "arrogant-mode" on, get involved into some flaming/bashong/trolling business and generally piss everyone off with their cynical comments. For me its a bugger - just for example : I like mustamatos pictures of Scandinavian army stuff a lot, but sometimes I can't stand his comments on world politics - Israel/Iraq cases in particular. We have been wondering with Javhen how it comes - that a seemingly reasonable person can show such a diffrent pictures of himself in two topics - is that hypocrisy? Schizophrenia? :roll: We don't expect you guys to show applaud US actions - but think of something better instead of cynicism...

As for 200cm of HELEX - I simply don't get this guy... maybe produce a manifesto of some sort that we'll get what's your point lad?

[Argyll]

Uninen...................you are a foking ***** muncher,your contributions to this board have been nothing but negative,why don't you go somewhere you're wanted,you're the worst kind of troll around........fok off back to where you came from

I don´t think the sun is good for you Argyll. You have become so negative
lately. Come back full-time to the chilling cold in these boards instead, you
will do more good as a moderator here than doing whatever you do there.

This has nothing to do with the sun,it's to do with constant negatives provided by you and Uninen,and HELEXand again you make the snidey comments about me being a moderator,and what I do in Iraq,personally I'd love to kick the **** out of the pair of you,but guess what,you pair of cockmunchin,ass bandits just aint worth it,but mark my words ,your posts will soon be edited to the state that you'll soon get sick of,You pair are nothing short of cowardly little people with sad pathetic lives who beat their meat to the pictures of US casualties,why?
if you have such a hatred for the West and in particular the USA,why post here,just to be a pair of ball licking shower sharing leather wearing assholes?Do you get 4" *****s at the backlash you provide,kiddo,you 3 ring pieces are not fit to lace my fokin boots,I'm here trying to make a difference,I see and speak to regular Iraqi's daily,what are you 3 amigo's doing to make the place better?....................fok all,................chicken **** losers to be exact,gutless cowards,the list is endless..............leave this forum and these posts to people who actually care in what they do,no matter how small it is,you are contributing nothing but anti Americanism,and anti Iraq,go somewhere where your little cult followers will blow you in a back alley,every descent forum member here will agree with me,this place would and will be better off without you 3.Pack your bags and get the losers bus out of dodge............period!

[Red]

Thanks Farmgirl for the informative post.

It's getting to the point that every other thread is being hijacked by a relatively small group of posters who, when they have nothing of substance to add, go out of their way to start sh**, then, whenever someone responds, they cry "foul". Most of them have no military experience, and, from the nature of their posts, little or no political experience aside from what they read or discuss in their student circles.

As much as they claim they do not like American politics and foreign policy, they spend an inordinate amount of time here "discussing" both as if their opinion will sway others. Here's a clue: As much as we Americans differ on politics, we do not like foreigners telling us what we should do, which is why some of the more vocal members here are so quick to condemn them.

One can only hope they spend an equal amount of time discussing their own countries shortcomings as they do the United States. Then again, most of them live in countries that are minor players on the world stage, so, perhaps that's why they feel like "sharing" their views here because it makes them feel like they are participating in world affairs. Pitiful :roll:
Well aid XASA,argyll stay safe man.I fear that HELEX,uninen, and mustamato are here to stay forever.They have sworn to stay on this board no matter how much most folks want them to leave.The will not leave this board,they are here to stay so please fellas lets ignore them.

[HELEX]

Argyll, what is your first hand estimation about the progress in Iraq, how long will it take before the Occupants are kicked out? 1 Year, 5 Years or the full 11 Years like in Vietnam?

Did you change your mind about how "welcome" the "liberators" are?

Tell me about your feeeeeeeelings.

[ibstolidude]

Did you change your mind about how "welcome" the "liberators" are?

Tell me about your feeeeeeeelings.
Why would it change his view? The reality is you will refuse to believe anythinng counter to your current beliefs - despite the oxfam polls, despite the polls taken by Iraqis for Iraqis - despite the word on the ground. Why waste your time and our server space even asking.

[usa320]

you pair of cockmunchin,ass bandits

rofl

NOW THATS MODERATION!!!!


:D

go agryll.

[JiJoMacLE45]

Urinen, be advised, picking fights with men like Shrek, Argyll, & Trigger is not good for your health. On a side note, when someone has that moderator tag above their avatar, it might be best for you to stop barking up that tree or you'll disappear quicker than a twelve year old's virginity at Neverland.

[Pille1234]

I'd say they're quite valuable members of MP community - but just let them at some politics/US/Iraq topic - they instantly turn they "arrogant-mode" on, get involved into some flaming/bashong/trolling business and generally piss everyone off with their cynical comments. For me its a bugger - just for example : I like mustamatos pictures of Scandinavian army stuff a lot, but sometimes I can't stand his comments on world politics - Israel/Iraq cases in particular. We have been wondering with Javhen how it comes - that a seemingly reasonable person can show such a diffrent pictures of himself in two topics - is that hypocrisy? Schizophrenia? :roll: We don't expect you guys to show applaud US actions - but think of something better instead of cynicism...


I'm afraid after the wrong, dissembling, hypocritical, mendacious and intriguing Iraq representation of Pres. Bush and his background whisperers there's nothing left but cynicism. But you are right, this should not be discussed in this thread.

[Uninen]

JiJoMacLE45,

Now what would you know about what healthy for me and what isnt? I assure you i can cover my own ass.

Futhermore,

Had you even red wtf is written here, i would be clear to you who are the ones actually "picking fights" here. :cantbeli:

But i guess you have red it all, you just didnt understand.....

Anybody with a half of a brain after reading this, would soon realize that it isnt me or mustamato with the additude problem, but its "the other guys"..

And what becomes to one individual, this "Shrek" he actually saw how unnessacery "fights" like this one here is and offered (via PM..) to me a "truce" saying that he wont take "the first punch"..... now, this offer (which i accept without any problems...) seems to me as a one of reason, cause i have never attacked other users person here at militaryphotos.net, i have never started the name calling and even when i have been attacked and called with dirty names i rarely have responded in same fassion.

Which is quite fortunate for you all, cause when some few trouble makers here are taking their best shot at me here, they call me with names that my mother would use of me....

:slap:

[JiJoMacLE45]

Uninen,
If you're pissing off Argyll, I don't need to read your previous posts to know that you've done something wrong. He's one of the most respected members on this board and if he has a problem with you, that means you better do a self-evaluation, real quick. Remember, respect is earned not given and by disrespecting the old dogs, you've done nothing to endear yourself to the rank and file. As Tane would say, just some thoughts.

[mustamato]

We have been wondering with Javhen how it comes - that a seemingly reasonable person can show such a diffrent pictures of himself in two topics - is that hypocrisy? Schizophrenia? :roll:

Most of us have several different identities without being schizo. In example
male, tall, Pole, hetero, like blondes, (dis)like of other countries foreign policy, etcetera
and etcetera.

There is a reason to why Carl von Linné classified us as Homo sapiens sapiens.

[Trigger]

Argyll wrote:

your posts will soon be edited to the state that you'll soon get sick of

I'd like to take this opportunity to offer my editing services.
p-)

[mustamato]

your posts will soon be edited to the state that you'll soon get sick of

...

I'm here trying to make a difference!

[Catch22]

Maustamato don't get poor Linnaeus involved into this mocking :) Isn't it that your sapientia understood as a virtu should make you be on more frindly terms with most of us? :roll: There are more wise ways to show you have doubts, than make ine lie comments and start flaming - I thought you're actually more rfined than HELEX who seem to specialize in this :|

[FallenAngel]

I got an idea...

ban everyone who joined up after, oh, say June of '03 cause as far as I can tell, when I first joined up and there were <50 members....this place rocked.

[usa320]

I agree with Fallen. it seems ever since 2003 this place has been a mess.

[Argyll]

your posts will soon be edited to the state that you'll soon get sick of

...

I'm here trying to make a difference!


You must think you're a clever bast*rd,no friends loser.
Very apt you using my quote........and yes I am here making a difference,unlike any of the 3 stooges,every time I go on task means another day accomplished in the company I work with(providing security).
It means that the lives of the people of Iraq will improve,not instantly,but progressively.

Every day I speak to iraqi's both inside and outside the green zone,something you 3 cannot do,or even comprehend,I've been in places where there is a hostile atmosphere,you have to gain an Iraqi's trust,90% of the ones I have had the privalage,and it is a privalage to talk to them,are happy to be free from saddams grip,but they want to run their own country,but the infrastructure is not there to do so,there are those who will still use this situation to their gain,there are lots of Ali baba's,of which are more of a threat to stability than anything else I've seen.

All you need to do is take a walk in the greenzone,and you will see children playing ,young women smiling,young men wanting to play football against you..........something you cannot understad unless you are there to see it with your own eyes,Iraq is a beautiful country,the buildings here in Baghdad,that are untouched by war are magnificent,eye contact with the Iraqi's is important,I remove my sunglasses when i speak to them,it eases the situation.

Every day I see an improvement,with my own eyes,we do not rely on media,but Human contact,believe me we are making a difference,despite the press/media coverage.
The press here are worse than the Enemy,they are privvy to times and dates of attacks,so they can get the scoop,a media crew in the area is an early warning of an attack..........you tell me if you think this is biased or not...........they are like vultures awaiting the death,and thats what the end results usually are,they're nothing more than parasites,they're nobodys friends here.

I am here,you 3 are not,I hear it and see it first hand,you read an edited version..............I think that puts me well and truly in pole position don't you agree?

[Truthsayer]

How about all of you tried to calm down, step down off your high horses and try to debate a little more...civilised?

[XASA]

Well said Argyll.

[JiJoMacLE45]

I am here,you 3 are not,I hear it and see it first hand,you read an edited version..............I think that puts me well and truly in pole position don't you agree?

AGREED!!!

[farmgirl]

another related article:

http://news.bostonherald.com/international/view.bg?articleid=6296


Team of WMD hunters may have been led into trap in Baghdad explosion
By Associated Press
Tuesday, April 27, 2004

BAGHDAD, Iraq - Officials are investigating whether a U.S. survey team looking for weapons of mass destruction was lured into a trap when a building they were searching exploded, killing two members, a defense official said Tuesday.

The Iraq Survey Group team, which reports to the CIA, was searching the building Monday after a tip that the site may have been producing chemical weapons, the official said, speaking on condition of anonymity.

There was no word whether any chemical weapons were found at the site, or whether any precautions against dangerous chemicals had been taken in the neighborhood after the blast.

The Iraq Survey Group, made up of dozens of teams, has been conducting a secretive and largely fruitless weapons hunt across Iraq for more than a year. The survey group combines members of the Central Intelligence Agency, Defense Intelligence Agency, U.S. military Special Forces and others.

Investigators were trying to determine whether the team was given a false tip intended to lure them into a trap, the official said.

Another scenario, he said, was that munitions accidentally exploded when the team battered down the building's entry door.

The explosion leveled the building, killing two servicemembers and wounding five, all members of the combined military-intelligence team. After the blast, cheering Iraqis swarmed over the team's burned-out Humvees, beating them with sticks and waving looted weapons.

A U.S. soldier was seen being taken away on a stretcher, her chest and face severely burned. Several Iraqis were pulled out of the wreckage, including a woman who wept as she was carried over a man's shoulder to safety.

In Baghdad, Brig. Gen. Mark Kimmitt did not say what sort of chemical munitions were believed to be produced at the site.

``Chemical munitions could mean any number of things,'' including smoke grenades, he said.

In October 2002, Bush said Iraq had ``a massive stockpile of biological weapons that has never been accounted for and is capable of killing millions.''

In his television address two days before launching the invasion, Bush said. U.S. troops would enter Iraq ``to eliminate weapons of mass destruction,'' or WMD.

With no success finding that alleged stockpile, some of the Iraq Survey Group teams have been redirected to hunting fugitives from Saddam Hussein's regime and foreign terrorists believed to be launching attacks in Iraq, military officials have said.

[G1]

What a f***ed up board. I can't go into one single topic without a bunch of personal attacks, flaming, spamming etc. going on, no matter if it's Rhodesian anti-ambush tactics it always degenerates into "my country is better than yours". Look at you pointing fingers everywhere, you just can't discuss things beyond "hey that's cool, thanks for sharing" then after that the flaming begins. Yes I have lurked here quite a while and I think Uninen, Mustamato and Helex should leave along with the rest of you, might do you some good. The atmosphere here is one of hate, hate against America, hate against Europe, hate against Arabs, this board should either be seriously cleaned up by some competent moderators or you should all shut down your computer and get lives.

I can already hear the whining "It wouldn't be like this if x hadn't started it and ruined it for the rest of us, our only hope is to flame them into..." Well I guess you don't have much power to do anything over the g**damned Internet, who here said that "we have to deal with it if the mods don't"? HAHAHAHA, watch out, he might kick your ass over the Internet!

That's my last post, I don't think I'll post here again until something happens. Just my 0.02 €. :|

[Fox2]

What a f***ed up board. I can't go into one single topic without a bunch of personal attacks, flaming, spamming etc. going on, no matter if it's Rhodesian anti-ambush tactics it always degenerates into "my country is better than yours". Look at you pointing fingers everywhere, you just can't discuss things beyond "hey that's cool, thanks for sharing" then after that the flaming begins. Yes I have lurked here quite a while and I think Uninen, Mustamato and Helex should leave along with the rest of you, might do you some good. The atmosphere here is one of hate, hate against America, hate against Europe, hate against Arabs, this board should either be seriously cleaned up by some competent moderators or you should all shut down your computer and get lives.

I can already hear the whining "It wouldn't be like this if x hadn't started it and ruined it for the rest of us, our only hope is to flame them into..." Well I guess you don't have much power to do anything over the g**damned Internet, who here said that "we have to deal with it if the mods don't"? HAHAHAHA, watch out, he might kick your ass over the Internet!

That's my last post, I don't think I'll post here again until something happens. Just my 0.02 €. :|

There is lots of insults and personal jabs, but, obviously you have not lurked attentively, because there have also been many mature discussions without insult or immaturity, especially from good folks like WARPIG, Tane Angle, even Cut (;)).

In any case, so long. Don't let the melodrama hit you on the way out. :lol: