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Lov3ll
03-08-2007, 01:18 PM
MoD's new £2.4bn radio is too heavy for most soldiers
Michael Evans, Defence Editor

A new radio system for the Armed Forces, developed at a cost of £2.4 billion, is too heavy for the average soldier to carry, a report by MPs has revealed.
Soldiers using the Bowman digital radio have also found that they cannot talk to other communication systems deployed with allies on the battle-field in Iraq and Afghanistan.
Bowman, which is beginning to replace the 30-year-old Clansman radio, should have been in service ten years ago, the MPs on the Public Accounts Committee said. However, delays had been caused by substantial technical problems, not helped by a Ministry of Defence decision to hand the contract to the Archer consortium, which was “unable to deliver the required product”.
Transferred to General Dynamics, the Bowman system began entering service in March 2004, but with 27 “provisos” and a number of capabilities removed from the specification. One of those was the ability to communicate secure data to the radio systems of allies to help to reduce the danger of “friendly-fire” attacks by coalition partners in a war. This requirement had been delayed until later in the programme, the MPs said. No lives had been lost because of the delays, the MoD had said.
Although the units now using Bowman had found it significantly better than Clansman, military personnel had complained that it was too heavy, and so complicated that it required a substantial amount of training.
The MPs said that the MoD did not take into account the needs of the Armed Forces. Successive directors of army infantry had emphasised that any increase in the size or weight of the Bowman radio would be unacceptable.
However, the project team developing Bowman failed to obtain the director of infantry’s acceptance of the radio’s size and weight, the MPs said. The MoD chose to give priority to performance, rather than having a user-friendly system.
“The radio produced, along with associated equipment including batteries, aerials, carrying equipment, user terminal and display, proved too heavy for the dismounted infantry,” the committee’s report said.
Edward Leigh, chairman of the committee, said: “The Bowman radio packs, despite the repeated concerns of directors of infantry, weigh a ton and so can’t easily be carried by the infantry in combat.”
MPs said that the MoD had paid an extra £121 million to General Dynamics to ensure that the first phase of the Bowman programme was completed on time.
The MoD’s original plan was to install Bowman in 15,700 land vehicles, 141 naval vessels and 60 helicopters, and to train about 75,000 Service personnel on the system.
However, with all the technical challenges that arose from trying to develop a secure radio system that could not be intercepted by an enemy, the number of platforms for Bowman had had to be reduced.
Now there would be 18 per cent fewer land vehicles converted to Bowman, and 74 per cent fewer helicopters.
No RAF aircraft had yet been given Bowman. But a way had had to be found, at a cost of £25 million, “to allow certain troops on the ground to talk to Apache attack helicopters”, which are currently providing crucial close support for units fighting the Taleban in Afghanistan.
The MoD had concluded that it would be “too difficult to install Bowman itself in Apache at present, but they had not dismissed this possibility for the future,” the committee’s report said.
Summing up the Bowman project, Mr Leigh said that MoD officials had “blithely” agreed to unrealistic timetables and then had “wrung their hands” as delays and costs mounted.

Missing the targets

Eight advanced special-operations Chinook Mark 3 helicopters were bought from the United States for £252 million 12 years ago but have been grounded ever since because they cannot fly in cloud
More than £90 million was spent to modify the standard SA80 rifle after numerous complaints from soldiers that it jammed and that bits fell off
The £2.2 billion Nimrod MRA4 maritime patrol and attack aircraft programme ran into trouble when it was found that the wings were the wrong size

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/politics/article1485212.ece

http://www.army.mod.uk/bowman/bowman_system.htm
http://www.global-defence.com/2000/pages/bowman.html

wildheart
03-08-2007, 02:13 PM
always nice to see my tax's being spent well

Laworkerbee
03-08-2007, 02:20 PM
I would think the British would be very particular about radios ever since the Market Garden fiasco

[WDW]Megaraptor
03-08-2007, 05:28 PM
A new radio system for the Armed Forces, developed at a cost of £2.4 billion, is too heavy for the average soldier to carry, a report by MPs has revealed.

I'm sorry but that sounds fishy...a pound is worth more than a dollar and I can't see any radio costing $2.4 billion to develop, much less more than that.

If that's an accurate number then it's an incredible waste of money.

Hydro
03-08-2007, 05:30 PM
Megaraptor;2356527']

If that's an accurate number then it's an incredible waste of money.


:D :D


That's the MoD for you. Bowman has been in development for over a decade now.

Lov3ll
03-08-2007, 05:31 PM
Megaraptor;2356527']I'm sorry but that sounds fishy...a pound is worth more than a dollar and I can't see any radio costing $2.4 billion to develop, much less more than that.

If that's an accurate number then it's an incredible waste of money.

£1 = $2 So it's around $4.8 billion, you have to understand that the MoD aren't very smart when it comes to money p-)

[WDW]Megaraptor
03-08-2007, 05:39 PM
£1 = $2 So it's around $4.8 billion, you have to understand that the MoD aren't very smart when it comes to money p-)

That's like 4 B-2s...for a radio that isn't even fielded yet :cantbeli::cantbeli::cantbeli:

Hydro
03-08-2007, 05:42 PM
It's just beginning to get fielded now (Rumours that my unit will possibly get it about June, no way in hell that's happening, I don't think most of the regular army will have completed receiving it). There were concerns about the amount of space it takes up in a Challenger 2 and other AFV's, and now it's too heavy for the Infantry to carry. Woo, go team!

Herrmannek
03-08-2007, 05:42 PM
Quite a lot money for things most cell phones can do out of the box :)

Hydro
03-08-2007, 05:43 PM
Quite a lot money for things most cell phones can do out of the box :)


BOWMAN -Better Off With Map And Nokia.

Lazy Lob
03-08-2007, 05:53 PM
.......... and a number of capabilities removed from the specification.

And..................


.......... Although the units now using Bowman had found it significantly better than Clansman, military personnel had complained that it was too heavy, and so complicated that it required a substantial amount of training.

So you remove capabilities and it's still heavy. So what was it like before, apart from heavy???


The MOD are a bunch of Nigels.

Yimmy
03-08-2007, 05:59 PM
Ah, come now, it can't be any worse than Clansman.

I have seen it as fitted in a Type 42, and the ship-based one didn't look too big.

2Sheds_Jackson
03-08-2007, 06:02 PM
Quite a lot money for things most cell phones can do out of the box :)

Amen. A $250 phone can modulate analog, TDMA, QPSK, GMSK, CDMA - spread spectrum, frequency hop, pass authentication codes, encrypt and decrypt on the fly. I have no idea what the spec's were for that $4b radio, but for that kind of money, it had better make breakfast and provide a courtesy reach-around.

D-gin
03-08-2007, 07:31 PM
Ooops.......


You really have to love how Governments spend money.

Rakki
03-09-2007, 05:16 AM
Should've taken the Rickover approach (for power transformers) - pick out the best, the cheapest and the smallest products on the market then say to the manufacturers - give me something with all three.

kosse
03-09-2007, 05:37 AM
Uh. all those radios on MoD website weigh 1/3 or even less of an/prc-77. Why could not soldiers carry them around? I'm a bit surprised though that they could not make it smaller. I'd imagined that they could stuff a radio into a matchbox with today's technology.

big_les
03-09-2007, 09:29 AM
BOWMAN -Better Off With Map And Nokia.

That's genius :D

Kaplanr
03-09-2007, 11:57 AM
Uh. all those radios on MoD website weigh 1/3 or even less of an/prc-77. Why could not soldiers carry them around? I'm a bit surprised though that they could not make it smaller. I'd imagined that they could stuff a radio into a matchbox with today's technology.

You know the 77 wouldn't have been so bad (alright I'm a lying sack of shyte) if they'd only made it with a mold that form-fitted to a human's back. I carried it often in basic and didn't mind the weight as much as that it rode to either side of my spine. I also didn't like how it clunked me on the back of the head when we dropped ****e.

DongFangBuBai
03-09-2007, 12:17 PM
Missing the targets

Eight advanced special-operations Chinook Mark 3 helicopters were bought from the United States for £252 million 12 years ago but have been grounded ever since because they cannot fly in cloud


I find this hard to believe. I think it is misquoted to be not IFR certified, i.e. it cannot fly along the IFR routes (airways). Flying in clouds (except of course thunderstorms) has little or no effect on flight controlability. Pilots are taught instrument flight techniques and there will at least be a ADF on board. Being the spec-ops version, there would certainly be more nav aids (e.g. TACAN or VOR/ILS). Although it is just a piece of paper between being certified or not, there are a mountain of legal issues. US army does not have a need for their helicopters to be IFR certified so for UK Mod to do it, it'll involve a lot of money and flight hours.

Thor
03-09-2007, 12:32 PM
Amen. A $250 phone can modulate analog, TDMA, QPSK, GMSK, CDMA - spread spectrum, frequency hop, pass authentication codes, encrypt and decrypt on the fly. I have no idea what the spec's were for that $4b radio, but for that kind of money, it had better make breakfast and provide a courtesy reach-around.
That's a phone I want. What's it called?

Rictor
03-09-2007, 12:49 PM
Four billion for a radio?!

Most countries could conduct a comprehensive modernization of their entire military for that kind of money. I guess the more money you have the less careful you are with it.

Freibier
03-09-2007, 02:03 PM
Britons and radios are like Laurel and Hardy

oldsoak
03-13-2007, 06:07 AM
Elements of Bowman are already in service and work well.
What hasnt helped is the advance of net centric warfare and the bandwidth increase that goes with it. There was a realisation during the program that the original specs were simply inadequate for what people were now expecting, so the MoD moved the goalposts a few times - guess what that does !
The days of a radio net just being able to provide secure voice or encrypted text are over - they expect it to be like an internet feed, and be instantly configureable to the nth degree. Had they wanted a pure voice and simple data network, they'd have had it in a year ago :-P