Everybody think how win in Iraq ?

[seruriermarshal]

I think , Now allies Iraq plan so danger . If sadr control Iraq , then Iraq will like Iran and AQ , So allies must win in Iraq .

I think :

1 . Allies must left Iraq city , Build base at near city . The topography must be spacious ;

http://www.boy-toy.net/bbs/UploadFile/2003122812202093308.gif

2. Strengthen the defence of the base . Iraq sh*t Often use mortar , RPG attack allies base . Must use mine , helicopter , UAV defence base ;

http://www.boy-toy.net/bbs/UploadFile/2003122810591290821.jpg

3 . Blockade Iraq's border . Allies must send more troops to Iraq's border , Ban everybody from other country pass border , there topography is spacious , Can use heavy weapon kill those people when they ready pass border ;

4 . Ban Iraq people carry weapon . If find , then allies may kill those Iraq people when they carry weapon ;

5 . Stop going on patrol in the city and the highway , use more Special Force , UAV , find information . To important area , use airship , sensor , UAV ...... Monitor ;

http://www.boy-toy.net/bbs/UploadFile/2003122810592637708.jpg

6 . Build special-purpose supply line . It reconnoitres topography it sets up each join the supply routes of bases try one's best and choose topography spacious topography, This road onlies permit allies to be special-purpose . If Iraq people enter this line , allies may use heavy weapon attack them ;

7 . The transport team must use the strong strength defence , Including more M1 , M2 , M113 and OH-58 , AH-1/64 . Must reconnoiter the topography before each action ;

http://www.boy-toy.net/bbs/UploadFile/2004-4/20044417378334.jpg

And this is JMooch's plan :
1) Don't marginalize their religious leaders. We left the Japanese emperer in power after WWII as a figurehead, but it also gave the Japanese people a leader they could respect. In Iraq, Islam is the only thing that joins the Iraqis.

2) Reinstate the military. We reinstated many former Japanese officers into the Japanese Defense Force after WWII, some of which were considered war criminals. We could do this with many of the Ba'athists there. Many of them told me that they only joined the "party" because their families would be killed if they didn't. Many times I believed them. This leads me to my third point:

3) Implement an Iraqi Defense Force by employing many of those that were in the military prior to the war. Insure they handling policing chores as well.

4) Implement the elections NOW. Not when we are about to transfer power. This will insure that there will be a leader chosen by the Iraqi people, not someone we appointed that they will resent.

5) Empower them economically. They have oil, Japan did not. We will not have to pour as much aid into Iraq like we did Japan. They have a means for paying for goods. Open American markets to Iraqi products as well. This will give them places to sell rugs, headwraps, etc. Things that were made by Iraqis.

6) Insure the constitution is in place before we leave (ala MacArthur in Japan). Write provisions for a parliament/senate and a peace clause as well (defense only).

7) Land reform. Give people something like land and they'll support you. Its as simple as that. Since most of the land was state-owned and the previous head of state is out, the land is ready for distribution (of course leave the Marsh Arabs and all others their traditional lands etc.).

8) Fix the educational system. Emphasize democracy in textbooks, etc.

9) Technological transfer. Give the Iraqis the modern machinery (in trade for oil) and schooling they need to fill factories with equipment to manufacture products for the world market. This goes back to #5 empower them economically. This makes them self-sufficient.

Thank you JMooch .

:roll:

[the_spec]

Fortify in strongholds outside the city and leave any reconnaisance to UAVs....what a brilliant plan :roll:
What is this, middle ages? Sit in the castle and ride out to pillage the surrounding villages once in a while?

[Chuckie]

So If I look at all your suggestions and put them together into 1 plan, here's how it would go.

All troops and vehicles would leave all the cities, hiways and roads (presumably to start patrolling the desert, secure the borders and start planting mines around all of our own bases) While this is happening, the bad Iraqis are expected to hand in all of their weapons. If the Iraqis don't comply, we will call in airstrikes via Hot Airbaloons which will be floating above each city 24/7.

Sounds like a bulletproof plan to me... get Abazaid on the phone.

[Supes]

Good effort but i don't think it's going to work. The part about vehicles and troops being out of the cities is happening a lot but their starting to get more involved i believe. When you have troops and vehicles away from the cities that means away from the Iraqi people which therefore doesn't provide security for the people which in turn turns the people to have no confidence or respect for the troops. When you avoid the matter, it gets worse. You must go in with lots of patrols and overwhelm the enemy to root them out and also show the Iraqi people that there is security so they can now help you idenitfy the foreign fighters and insurgents. The more of this i believe the better it will get.

[Wilco]

http://www.globenet.free-online.co.uk/images/nuke.jpg












I'm joking, don't get serious on me. ;)

[Jack Mehoff]

http://forumspam.articblue.nl/user_related/owned/images/0287.jpg

[radon]

I started laughing for some reason. rofl . This has to be the definition of sundaymilitarism... Sorry.

This was a joke? no full sentences and all

maybe this works... join the military and get into the right position to do things like this :petting:

[American Patriot]

I started laughing for some reason. rofl . This has to be the definition of sundaymilitarism... Sorry.

This was a joke? no full sentences and all

maybe this works... join the military and get into the right position to do things like this :petting:

I almost failed my ASVAB. They'll never let me do **** like that.

[jamesp]

What a crappy plan. I used to draw **** like that after I saw Dawn of the Dead when I was 10, I drew a plan how I would survive in a world full of zombies.

[MVSpartan117]

GO ARMY BLIMPS!

[seruriermarshal]

Need the supply of the stability and patience fighting for a long time the guerrilla war . First allies base must safe .
Rebuild Iraq so important , but must step by step , if allies can't defence own , then Iraq people can't believe allies can defence Iraq people .
To rebuild Iraq can use test point . Plan to defend schemes in the intact economic border from border area .
If Iraq people see their life and test point differences ,then they will give up being hostile to the alliance gradually .

[seruriermarshal]

Fortify in strongholds outside the city and leave any reconnaisance to UAVs....what a brilliant plan :roll:
What is this, middle ages? Sit in the castle and ride out to pillage the surrounding villages once in a while?

My meaning is take root in Iraq like tree .

[mrfloppy]

What a complete and utter nonsense! :cantbeli:

Maybe plans like this do work in some kind of computer game but not in the real world.

[seruriermarshal]

What a complete and utter nonsense! :cantbeli:

Maybe plans like this do work in some kind of computer game but not in the real world.

I hope hear your argument .

[Nyyperi]

This is some funny sh*t rofl
Please make a plan how to find Osama from Afganistan.
(peek in every cave is a good plan)

[seruriermarshal]

This is some funny sh*t rofl
Please make a plan how to find Osama from Afganistan.
(peek in every cave is a good plan)

You think , first kill Osama or Sadr , then war will over , Yes . but must step by step .

Should consider the topography while fighting , you know that there are caverns in Afghanistan, it is very fine, But a more one are the desert and plain in Iraq , and now I say Iraq not Afganistan .

[mrfloppy]

Seruriermarshal wrote:
I hope hear your argument .

Why don't you just leave the military planning to the experts in this field, e.g. US-Generals. I deduce from your drawings that you are a an amateur-strategist. As I said, your plan may be good for some strategy game (C&C, Warcraft, etc.), but not for this very real war! As I am not a strategist myself, I won't make any proposals how to set up US-troops anywhere.

BTW: Where do you come from - isn't Sérurier the name of a French Marshal (1742-1819)? Are you French?[/quote]

[seruriermarshal]

Seruriermarshal wrote:
I hope hear your argument .

Why don't you just leave the military planning to the experts in this field, e.g. US-Generals. I deduce from your drawings that you are a an amateur-strategist. As I said, your plan may be good for some strategy game (C&C, Warcraft, etc.), but not for this very real war! As I am not a strategist myself, I won't make any proposals how to set up US-troops anywhere.

BTW: Where do you come from - isn't Sérurier the name of a French Marshal (1742-1819)? Are you French?[/quote]

I only think this plan is an idea , I hope hear better idea from everybody , Then perhaps will have an better plan .

BTW : mine , UAV using in the world , airship used in WWI , If you think these are game , then you think what's that :

http://www.packbot.com/products/scout/_img/bens.jpg

[mrfloppy]

I only think this plan is an idea , I hope hear better idea from everybody , Then perhaps will have an better plan .

The officers in the Pentagon probably do their best to provide the troops with good plans, they don't sit in front of their computer screens, waiting for some genius over here, to come up with a better plan. Do you really believe, that anyone on this board has the expertise to do something like that? That's pretty much to expect from some military enthusiasts and low ranking (ex-)soldiers.

As far as your picture is concerned - I don't have a clue what kind of crap that may be... Concerning Airships - too slow, too big, to sensitive and therefore not being used by modern armies, the remaining plan is also crap!

[Denat]

Seruriermarshal has his own plan, wheather you like it or not, you should present your arguments instead of silly jokes.

This is some funny sh*t
Please make a plan how to find Osama from Afganistan.
(peek in every cave is a good plan)
Seruriermarshal just wanted to show his point of view and start some discussion, than came some morons who don't want to discuss but to offend other people.

[seruriermarshal]

I only think this plan is an idea , I hope hear better idea from everybody , Then perhaps will have an better plan .

The officers in the Pentagon probably do their best to provide the troops with good plans, they don't sit in front of their computer screens, waiting for some genius over here, to come up with a better plan. Do you really believe, that anyone on this board has the expertise to do something like that? That's pretty much to expect from some military enthusiasts and low ranking (ex-)soldiers.

As far as your picture is concerned - I don't have a clue what kind of crap that may be... Concerning Airships - too slow, too big, to sensitive and therefore not being used by modern armies, the remaining plan is also crap!

Ok , to the airship , It's " platform " , It can be in the sky for a long time, can carry more monitoring the equipment , can be far away from the threat of RPG( compares the helicopter), So I will think of it .

http://www.5kx.com/toysale/bbs/UploadFile/2004-4/2004427183339407.jpg

I hope hear your more argument , thank you .

[seruriermarshal]

Seruriermarshal has his own plan, wheather you like it or not, you should present your arguments instead of silly jokes.

This is some funny sh*t
Please make a plan how to find Osama from Afganistan.
(peek in every cave is a good plan)
Seruriermarshal just wanted to show his point of view and start some discussion, than came some morons who don't want to discuss but to offend other people.

Thank you very much . I hope have some discussion . Thank you again .

[Nyyperi]

Seruriermarshal has his own plan, wheather you like it or not, you should present your arguments instead of silly jokes.

This is some funny sh*t
Please make a plan how to find Osama from Afganistan.
(peek in every cave is a good plan)
Seruriermarshal just wanted to show his point of view and start some discussion, than came some morons who don't want to discuss but to offend other people.

Gotcha. I'm sorry to make fun of him and his plan and I shouldn't have done that. But even you have to admit, there's something kinda funny in making such a plan and posting it in militaryphotos.net.
Or then not.
My apologies Seruriermarshal

[seruriermarshal]

Seruriermarshal has his own plan, wheather you like it or not, you should present your arguments instead of silly jokes.

This is some funny sh*t
Please make a plan how to find Osama from Afganistan.
(peek in every cave is a good plan)
Seruriermarshal just wanted to show his point of view and start some discussion, than came some morons who don't want to discuss but to offend other people.

Gotcha. I'm sorry to make fun of him and his plan and I shouldn't have done that. But even you have to admit, there's something kinda funny in making such a plan and posting it in militaryphotos.net.
Or then not.
My apologies Seruriermarshal

No problem , don't take notice of , I like to make a joke too, If you think that there are funny places in this plan, I hope that you can say out , If really funny, I will smile too .

[Nyyperi]

No problem , don't take notice of , I like to make a joke too, If you think that there are funny places in this plan, I hope that you can say out , If really funny, I will smile too .
Things aren't allways that simple. It's not a "old school" war. Everyone is not the enemy, but anyone can be. It would be totally different if it was qovernment fighting a qovernment and the bad guys wore a uniform. So the "funny" thing in your plan is that the hypothesis is wrong from the beginning.
You can't just leave the cities, if you stop patrolling the streets and stop the searches etc, the opposition will have the luxury to work and recruit in peace.
A good plan in this situation should allways be focused on the hearts and minds of the people. History has told, that you can destroy the qoverment, but not the people.
Just my 0,000005cents.

[seruriermarshal]

No problem , don't take notice of , I like to make a joke too, If you think that there are funny places in this plan, I hope that you can say out , If really funny, I will smile too .
Things aren't allways that simple. It's not a "old school" war. Everyone is not the enemy, but anyone can be. It would be totally different if it was qovernment fighting a qovernment and the bad guys wore a uniform. So the "funny" thing in your plan is that the hypothesis is wrong from the beginning.
You can't just leave the cities, if you stop patrolling the streets and stop the searches etc, the opposition will have the luxury to work and recruit in peace.
A good plan in this situation should allways be focused on the hearts and minds of the people. History has told, that you can destroy the qoverment, but not the people.
Just my 0,000005cents.

Ok , I know your meaing . I think the war is the last choose to solve the problem, the obligation of the alliance is to prevent the foreign terrorist from permeating from the border, Creating a stable border to rebuild working, their more rational question of treating after Iraqi in the middle part find the difference in life, Iraq is Iraq forever, if you want to conquer it, that is not possible at all, What the alliance should do is the peace of letting Iraq become, prosperity is steady.

[Scottie]

If the Iraqis want The Allies Out take them ALL out, dont help them or do anything for them, they dont want our help so be it.

[seruriermarshal]

If the Iraqis want The Allies Out take them ALL out, dont help them or do anything for them, they dont want our help so be it.

That is exactly question . Iraq is needing the allies help now after standing the long-time economic sanctions . Education and propaganda that some Iraqi have accepted all the time have all been against U.S.A., Against Israel . So the work of the alliance will be very hard and long-term . Iraqi do not hope now that the alliance is in Iraq, But turn into a normal country for Iraq, the alliance must be in Iraq . The Iraqi people can't live under the spiritual oppression of the tyrant and terrorism forever .

[Mark Sman]

We'll win in Iraq the same way everyone wins a foreign war.

Declare victory and then leave.

[Nyyperi]

We'll win in Iraq the same way everyone wins a foreign war.
Declare victory and then leave.
Thats the best plan yet. Bomb and destroy the qovernment and "official" troops, quick parade in the capital, and then let them fight amongst themselves who should lead the nation.
Repeat if necessary. woot

[seruriermarshal]

We'll win in Iraq the same way everyone wins a foreign war.
Declare victory and then leave.
Thats the best plan yet. Bomb and destroy the qovernment and "official" troops, quick parade in the capital, and then let them fight amongst themselves who should lead the nation.
Repeat if necessary. woot

If allies do those , then Iraq people will hate allies forever , That's wrong .

[Hellman109]

This is some funny sh*t rofl
Please make a plan how to find Osama from Afganistan.
(peek in every cave is a good plan)

Goodamn you make it too easy for me....

Two for one sale of dialisis machines at habibs discount medical store.

HOW COULD HE EVER REFUSE, it's just like robin hood, minus the archery.


NB: for the slow, this is a JOKE :bash:

[Hellman109]

Also the convoy defense... two MBT's and two trucks wide....

There arent 6 lane freeways everywhere... some places you couldnt fit through one MBT.

Mining your base isnt good in a peace keeping operation either, it sends a VERY bad message.

UAV's are expensive, hence why there arent 50,000 on 24/7 patrols. THey are used where warented and they dont want to put people at risk, not just so they can spy on a toplessbeach.

The Iraqi's have had weapons for decades, your not going to take them off them at all, only restrict new weapons and sieze and cahces you find, perhaps a buy back scheme like they had here in Australia (to buy back semi-auto rifles mainly, got rid of ALLOT of illegal weapons under amnisty, they were destroyed), your not just going to get them to give them up.

You need a presence to get rid of insurgents, retreat to your bases and monitor is exactly what they would love, freedom of movement, there still going to go in small lots and therfore any retalliation isnt going to do much.

Stop Iraqi's going on Iraqi roads? ARE YOU NUTS, this will NEVER work, as it's THERE roads, not the allies. This is how you piss people off, read wall, berlin, wall... hint hint.

Your plan isnt well thought out....

[JMooch]

You are thinking about how to win in Iraq all wrong. Its not at the tactical level that this war will be won. Its political. We need to gain the support of the common Iraqi (many of which we have, too bad the media will only show the sensationalized crap). We need to treat/develop/build-up Iraq the same way we handled Japan after WWII.
Here are some ideas:
1) Don't marginalize their religious leaders. We left the Japanese emperer in power after WWII as a figurehead, but it also gave the Japanese people a leader they could respect. In Iraq, Islam is the only thing that joins the Iraqis.

2) Reinstate the military. We reinstated many former Japanese officers into the Japanese Defense Force after WWII, some of which were considered war criminals. We could do this with many of the Ba'athists there. Many of them told me that they only joined the "party" because their families would be killed if they didn't. Many times I believed them. This leads me to my third point:

3) Implement an Iraqi Defense Force by employing many of those that were in the military prior to the war. Insure they handling policing chores as well.

4) Implement the elections NOW. Not when we are about to transfer power. This will insure that there will be a leader chosen by the Iraqi people, not someone we appointed that they will resent.

5) Empower them economically. They have oil, Japan did not. We will not have to pour as much aid into Iraq like we did Japan. They have a means for paying for goods. Open American markets to Iraqi products as well. This will give them places to sell rugs, headwraps, etc. Things that were made by Iraqis.

6) Insure the constitution is in place before we leave (ala MacArthur in Japan). Write provisions for a parliament/senate and a peace clause as well (defense only).

7) Land reform. Give people something like land and they'll support you. Its as simple as that. Since most of the land was state-owned and the previous head of state is out, the land is ready for distribution (of course leave the Marsh Arabs and all others their traditional lands etc.).

8) Fix the educational system. Emphasize democracy in textbooks, etc.

9) Technological transfer. Give the Iraqis the modern machinery (in trade for oil) and schooling they need to fill factories with equipment to manufacture products for the world market. This goes back to #5 empower them economically. This makes them self-sufficient.

Like I said, I think Japan after WWII is the perfect model for stabilizing Iraq. But what do I know.
S/F
Mooch

[Hellman109]

Jmooch is on the money.

The Iraqi's need to be able to respect there government, have a stable economy (driven by oil), and to WANT to have the government in power, so that they will tell the insurgents (those from other countries primarily) to fcuk off, as tehre destroying what they want. Giving out the land will win many friends, as long as you dont do stupid things, talking to the local community is all that's needed to avoid stupid things.

Before the allies can march there troops out of Iraq it will need to be stable, relativly peaceful (there internal police / army can deal with it), and be able to support itself (even if short term that is with help from other countries).

First big step: Get more oil into exports, and SHOW IRAQI'S WHAT IT IS BEING SPENT ON. Have in the newspapers: "1,000,000 barrels of oil sold to fund 50 local schools", have local celebrations at miestones, etc. etc. if your an insuregent your not going to go blow up another piece of pipeline and brag in those communities now are you. Speaking of which: the people first funded should be those close to the oil and it's infrastructure, as the sooner you make those areas secure (and therfore the oil) the more you will get. adding in newer techs into the oil system will really help here, this should be US paid for first, then paid back over time, as you need that oil helping Iraqi's NOW to show them how it's helping them.

[esl]

Yeah I'm for the declare victory and leave route.This plan sounds like you want to replace Saddam with Saddam.Its well know that until a people is ready to rise up in the streets to over throw its oppressors its not ready for democracy anyway.....Hey I got an idea , well call it the PRIME DIRECTIVE.

My old crazy russian friend said it best.These types of wars can never be won, you'd have better chance of success by bombing the Iraqies with Britten Spears CDs and money and telling them theres more where this came from if you get rid of Saddam and the Bathists.


Guys just Declare victory and leave. Have a big F#%K'n parady in NYC where you give medals to all the soldiers and awards to the guilty and contracts to the criminals [err I mean't companies] and then conven a committee to punish the innocent [find a scape goat].Then you rewrite the history books to teach the kiddies that it was all worth it in the very very long run :roll:

[seruriermarshal]

Also the convoy defense... two MBT's and two trucks wide....

There arent 6 lane freeways everywhere... some places you couldnt fit through one MBT.

Mining your base isnt good in a peace keeping operation either, it sends a VERY bad message.

UAV's are expensive, hence why there arent 50,000 on 24/7 patrols. THey are used where warented and they dont want to put people at risk, not just so they can spy on a toplessbeach.

The Iraqi's have had weapons for decades, your not going to take them off them at all, only restrict new weapons and sieze and cahces you find, perhaps a buy back scheme like they had here in Australia (to buy back semi-auto rifles mainly, got rid of ALLOT of illegal weapons under amnisty, they were destroyed), your not just going to get them to give them up.

You need a presence to get rid of insurgents, retreat to your bases and monitor is exactly what they would love, freedom of movement, there still going to go in small lots and therfore any retalliation isnt going to do much.

Stop Iraqi's going on Iraqi roads? ARE YOU NUTS, this will NEVER work, as it's THERE roads, not the allies. This is how you piss people off, read wall, berlin, wall... hint hint.

Your plan isnt well thought out....

Thank you very much ......

In fact , those pic only are sketch map , My meaning is army left road . That kind will be reduced accidentallying injure to common people . And needn't be afraid it will be limited by the road that the army takes action too .

[seruriermarshal]

You are thinking about how to win in Iraq all wrong. Its not at the tactical level that this war will be won. Its political. We need to gain the support of the common Iraqi (many of which we have, too bad the media will only show the sensationalized crap). We need to treat/develop/build-up Iraq the same way we handled Japan after WWII.
Here are some ideas:
1) Don't marginalize their religious leaders. We left the Japanese emperer in power after WWII as a figurehead, but it also gave the Japanese people a leader they could respect. In Iraq, Islam is the only thing that joins the Iraqis.

2) Reinstate the military. We reinstated many former Japanese officers into the Japanese Defense Force after WWII, some of which were considered war criminals. We could do this with many of the Ba'athists there. Many of them told me that they only joined the "party" because their families would be killed if they didn't. Many times I believed them. This leads me to my third point:

3) Implement an Iraqi Defense Force by employing many of those that were in the military prior to the war. Insure they handling policing chores as well.

4) Implement the elections NOW. Not when we are about to transfer power. This will insure that there will be a leader chosen by the Iraqi people, not someone we appointed that they will resent.

5) Empower them economically. They have oil, Japan did not. We will not have to pour as much aid into Iraq like we did Japan. They have a means for paying for goods. Open American markets to Iraqi products as well. This will give them places to sell rugs, headwraps, etc. Things that were made by Iraqis.

6) Insure the constitution is in place before we leave (ala MacArthur in Japan). Write provisions for a parliament/senate and a peace clause as well (defense only).

7) Land reform. Give people something like land and they'll support you. Its as simple as that. Since most of the land was state-owned and the previous head of state is out, the land is ready for distribution (of course leave the Marsh Arabs and all others their traditional lands etc.).

8) Fix the educational system. Emphasize democracy in textbooks, etc.

9) Technological transfer. Give the Iraqis the modern machinery (in trade for oil) and schooling they need to fill factories with equipment to manufacture products for the world market. This goes back to #5 empower them economically. This makes them self-sufficient.

Like I said, I think Japan after WWII is the perfect model for stabilizing Iraq. But what do I know.
S/F
Mooch

Extremely good plan, your scheme lays particular emphasis on the political and economic question even more, I will put your scheme into the whole plan.

War can't solve all of problem , political will so important and must .

Thank you again .

[seruriermarshal]

Jmooch is on the money.

The Iraqi's need to be able to respect there government, have a stable economy (driven by oil), and to WANT to have the government in power, so that they will tell the insurgents (those from other countries primarily) to fcuk off, as tehre destroying what they want. Giving out the land will win many friends, as long as you dont do stupid things, talking to the local community is all that's needed to avoid stupid things.

Before the allies can march there troops out of Iraq it will need to be stable, relativly peaceful (there internal police / army can deal with it), and be able to support itself (even if short term that is with help from other countries).

First big step: Get more oil into exports, and SHOW IRAQI'S WHAT IT IS BEING SPENT ON. Have in the newspapers: "1,000,000 barrels of oil sold to fund 50 local schools", have local celebrations at miestones, etc. etc. if your an insuregent your not going to go blow up another piece of pipeline and brag in those communities now are you. Speaking of which: the people first funded should be those close to the oil and it's infrastructure, as the sooner you make those areas secure (and therfore the oil) the more you will get. adding in newer techs into the oil system will really help here, this should be US paid for first, then paid back over time, as you need that oil helping Iraqi's NOW to show them how it's helping them.

Rebuild need more money and long time , I'm afraid allies will not patience .

[talib_killa34]

War was over on April 14th 2003 with the fall of Tikrit.

Germany rolled over France in May 1940, that war with them was in effect, over. Then came the occupation and the resistance.

It was not like people in 1943 were saying, "Gee, I hope that war between France and Germany ends soon" just because german troops were getting killed by partisans.

This is not a war, this is the "peace" and it is a bitch....

[seruriermarshal]

War was over on April 14th 2003 with the fall of Tikrit.

Germany rolled over France in May 1940, that war with them was in effect, over. Then came the occupation and the resistance.

It was not like people in 1943 were saying, "Gee, I hope that war between France and Germany ends soon" just because german troops were getting killed by partisans.

This is not a war, this is the "peace" and it is a bitch....

My friend , In fact these one guerrilla wars . I think , it isn't Vietnam , But it look like Lebanon ......

[talib_killa34]

Yeah and more like the whole West Bank/Gaza Strip occupation.

It will only end with the USA getting their troops out when Iraq is able to stand on its feet again.

However, someone, somewhere does not want the Americans out of Iraq.
They want them to stay with 100+K soldiers getting bogged down in a ten year occupation so that they can inflict a "death from a thousand cuts" and make the US fall.

Sorta like Bin Laden thinks the Muj did to the old USSR back in 1989.

That's not going to happen now UBL...

[seruriermarshal]

Yeah and more like the whole West Bank/Gaza Strip occupation.

It will only end with the USA getting their troops out when Iraq is able to stand on its feet again.

However, someone, somewhere does not want the Americans out of Iraq.
They want them to stay with 100+K soldiers getting bogged down in a ten year occupation so that they can inflict a "death from a thousand cuts" and make the US fall.

Sorta like Bin Laden thinks the Muj did to the old USSR back in 1989.

That's not going to happen now UBL...

I'm not think U.S. like USSR , But to this war , must win , If U.S. left Iraq . then now realy need afraid is Europe . Spain , France , German ...... If they AQ have nuclear weapon , Then the world will ruin .

[talib_killa34]

Exactly. ;)

[TOTEM]

VX gas!!!!!!
Nice and easy!!
No radiation left!!

[seruriermarshal]

VX gas!!!!!!
Nice and easy!!
No radiation left!!

Jordan says major al Qaeda plot disrupted
Authorities: Chemical cloud would have been released in Amman

Monday, April 26, 2004 Posted: 3:54 PM EDT (1954 GMT)

AMMAN, Jordan (CNN) -- Jordanian authorities said Monday they have broken up an alleged al Qaeda plot that would have unleashed a deadly cloud of chemicals in the heart of Jordan's capital, Amman.

The plot would have been more deadly than anything al Qaeda has done before, including the September 11 attacks, according to the Jordanian government.

Among the alleged targets were the U.S. Embassy, the Jordanian prime minister's office and the headquarters of Jordanian intelligence.

U.S. intelligence officials expressed caution about whether the chemicals captured by Jordanian authorities were intended to create a "toxic cloud" chemical weapon, but they said the large quantities involved were at a minimum intended to create "massive explosions."

Officials said there is debate within the CIA and other U.S. agencies over whether the plotters were planning to kill innocent people using toxic chemicals.

At issue is the presence of a large quantity of sulfuric acid among the tons of chemicals seized by Jordanian authorities. Sulfuric acid can be used as a blister agent, but it more commonly can increase the size of conventional explosions, according to U.S. officials.

Nevertheless, U.S. intelligence officials called the capture of tons of chemicals that together could create several large conventional explosions "a big deal."

The plot was within days of being carried out, Jordanian officials said, when security forces broke it up April 20.

In a nighttime raid in Amman, Jordanian security forces moved in on the terrorist cell. After the shooting stopped, four men were dead. Jordanian authorities said. They said at least three others were arrested, including Azmi Jayyousi, the cell's suspected ringleader, whom Jordanian intelligence alleges was responsible for planning and recruiting.

On a confession shown on state-run Jordanian television, Jayyousi said he took orders from Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, a suspected terrorist leader who has been linked to al Qaeda and whom U.S. officials have said is behind some attacks in Iraq.

"I took explosives courses, poisons high level, then I pledged allegiance to Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, to obey him without any questioning," Jayyousi said.

Jordanian intelligence suspects Jayyousi returned from Iraq in January after a meeting with al-Zarqawi in which they allegedly plotted to hit the three targets in Amman.

In a series of raids, the Jordanians said, they seized 20 tons of chemicals and numerous explosives. Also seized were three trucks equipped with specially modified plows, apparently designed to crash through security barricades.

The first alleged target was the Jordanian intelligence headquarters. The alleged blast was intended to be a big one.

"According to my experience as an explosives expert, the whole of the Intelligence Department will be destroyed, and nothing of it will remain, nor anything surrounding it," Jayyousi said.

Details of the alleged plot were shown Monday on Jordanian television, including graphics of how the cell apparently intended to carry out the attack.

In an videotape shown on Jordanian TV, Hussein Sharif said Jayyousi recruited him as a suicide bomber.

"The aim, Azmi told me, was to execute an operation to strike Jordan and the Hashemite Royal family, a war against the crusaders and infidels," Sharif said. "Azmi told me that this will be the first chemical attack that al Qaeda will execute."

Jordanian authorities said the attack would have mixed a combination of 71 lethal chemicals, which they said has never been done before, including blistering agents to cause third-degree burns, nerve gas and choking agents.

A Jordanian government scientist said the plot had been carefully worked out, with just the right amount of explosives to spread the deadly cloud without diminishing the effects of the chemicals. The blast would not burn up the poisonous chemicals but instead produce a toxic cloud, the scientist said, possibly spreading for a mile, maybe more.

The Jordanian intelligence buildings are within a mile of a large medical center, a shopping mall and a residential area.

"And there is no one combination of antidote to treat nerve agent, choking agent and blistering agent," the scientist said.

Al-Zarqawi, a Jordanian, has been accused of plotting chemical attacks before, and authorities said it would not be his first attempt to strike Jordan.

In 2000, a Jordanian court charged him in absentia with planning to blow up a hotel and attack tourist destinations.

U.S. officials have said he was behind the 2002 assassination of American diplomat Lawrence Foley, who was gunned down outside his home in Amman.

According to the televised confessions, $170,000 came from Zarqawi via messengers from Syria.

In last week's raid, Jordanian forces seized cash, bomb-making equipment and weapons, investigators said.

CNN was not allowed access to any of those arrested. But the videotaped confessions offer a rare glimpse inside an alleged terrorist operation.

The Jordanian government said the videotapes were made with the full cooperation of the suspects and their attorneys.

[Truthsayer]

seruriermarshal>> What country are you from?

[seruriermarshal]

Now IED , are so danger , I don't know , why allies and Iraq people together use the road ? They must build road that link allies base .

[seruriermarshal]

Yeah I'm for the declare victory and leave route.This plan sounds like you want to replace Saddam with Saddam.Its well know that until a people is ready to rise up in the streets to over throw its oppressors its not ready for democracy anyway.....Hey I got an idea , well call it the PRIME DIRECTIVE.

My old crazy russian friend said it best.These types of wars can never be won, you'd have better chance of success by bombing the Iraqies with Britten Spears CDs and money and telling them theres more where this came from if you get rid of Saddam and the Bathists.


Guys just Declare victory and leave. Have a big F#%K'n parady in NYC where you give medals to all the soldiers and awards to the guilty and contracts to the criminals [err I mean't companies] and then conven a committee to punish the innocent [find a scape goat].Then you rewrite the history books to teach the kiddies that it was all worth it in the very very long run :roll:

In my plan , I think allies need more defend , not attack ; Allies need time and information , not in city patrol ; Allies need reduction casualties , not more casualties . This is not conservative, but is fortifies at every step , Can't act with undue haste regarding the Iraqi question . Otherwise will more allies troops killed and more countries left Iraq .

[esl]

In my plan , I think allies need more defend , not attack ; Allies need time and information , not in city patrol ; Allies need reduction casualties , not more casualties . This is not conservative, but is fortifies at every step , Can't act with undue haste regarding the Iraqi question . Otherwise will more allies troops killed and more countries left Iraq .


They should never have destroyed the Iraqie military. Only the RG and fanatic special forces actually fought the bulk of the fighting. Rank and file Iraqie troops never even showed up.

In a post war situation these people with there commanders could have been used as the skeleton of a force that would only require coallition backing to work.

But this opportunity has been lost and any capital gained from deposing Saddam has been spent. The bulk of the Iraqies want America out now. If the Americans do respect democracy then they should respect the will of the Iraqie people and leave, military bases and all.

[seruriermarshal]

In my plan , I think allies need more defend , not attack ; Allies need time and information , not in city patrol ; Allies need reduction casualties , not more casualties . This is not conservative, but is fortifies at every step , Can't act with undue haste regarding the Iraqi question . Otherwise will more allies troops killed and more countries left Iraq .


They should never have destroyed the Iraqie military. Only the RG and fanatic special forces actually fought the bulk of the fighting. Rank and file Iraqie troops never even showed up.

In a post war situation these people with there commanders could have been used as the skeleton of a force that would only require coallition backing to work.

But this opportunity has been lost and any capital gained from deposing Saddam has been spent. The bulk of the Iraqies want America out now. If the Americans do respect democracy then they should respect the will of the Iraqie people and leave, military bases and all.

Yes , allies will left Iraq , but not now . If now allies left Iraq , there will civil war , And AQ will build more base in there , The entire Mideast country will be able to encounter the huge attack , Then will The tens of thousands of people are killed , Then is EU , Then is Asian ......

[esl]

Yes , allies will left Iraq , but not now . If now allies left Iraq , there will civil war , And AQ will build more base in there , The entire Mideast country will be able to encounter the huge attack , Then will The tens of thousands of people are killed , Then is EU , Then is Asian ......

Fraid not, the civil war in Iraq was inevitable from the start. Iraq is an artifical state created by Brits out of three tribe so they could exploite the oil. Historically it has only been stable when a brutally hard regime has been incharge. When the british put down the last rebellion in 1920 they did so by leveling entire villages and massacering the population...not unlike one guy named Saddam :roll:

Civil war and the balkanization of the region is inevitable leading to an Iranian overthrow of any fledging regime and then SA and Kuwaite. We begged you people not to destroy Iraq before this war ,cause this is exactly what we knew would happen back in 2002. :cantbeli:

There are not enough troops to police this region and continued occupation will cost the USA [in addition to more lives] an annual 1/2 trillion dollars deficit plus setting up a draft and the inevitable ending of the following cash expensive programs F-22 , F-35 , DDGX and future carriers as well as FCS for the army. Who thinks this is worth the cost?

Mean while the Chinese are laughing themselves silly, at all this american 'knees bent running around bungling behaviour'.

Euros would be nuts to get involved in Iraq as would the UN...but removal of the USA would atleast reduce the target signature and help lessen the threat.So they may have no choice but clean up the mess.

AQ is a fanatical extra terratorial organization that has to be combated in this manner with the aid of all countries over extended time with special forces incooperation of indigenous policing and organisations like interpole and some UN police force [yet to be created] . Few countries would tollerate there presence if the right pressure could be brought to bare.

Your never going to win the war on terror by attacking countries with armies. Start with the paper trail and see where it leads you. I hear the money seems to come from Saudia Arabia. Maybe a UN bankers organization needs to be set up to track this to the source to roote out this funding and thus help in the struggle against AQ.

[seruriermarshal]

Yes , allies will left Iraq , but not now . If now allies left Iraq , there will civil war , And AQ will build more base in there , The entire Mideast country will be able to encounter the huge attack , Then will The tens of thousands of people are killed , Then is EU , Then is Asian ......

Fraid not, the civil war in Iraq was inevitable from the start. Iraq is an artifical state created by Brits out of three tribe so they could exploite the oil. Historically it has only been stable when a brutally hard regime has been incharge. When the british put down the last rebellion in 1920 they did so by leveling entire villages and massacering the population...not unlike one guy named Saddam :roll:

Civil war and the balkanization of the region is inevitable leading to an Iranian overthrow of any fledging regime and then SA and Kuwaite. We begged you people not to destroy Iraq before this war ,cause this is exactly what we knew would happen back in 2002. :cantbeli:

There are not enough troops to police this region and continued occupation will cost the USA [in addition to more lives] an annual 1/2 trillion dollars deficit plus setting up a draft and the inevitable ending of the following cash expensive programs F-22 , F-35 , DDGX and future carriers as well as FCS for the army. Who thinks this is worth the cost?

Mean while the Chinese are laughing themselves silly, at all this american 'knees bent running around bungling behaviour'.

Euros would be nuts to get involved in Iraq as would the UN...but removal of the USA would atleast reduce the target signature and help lessen the threat.So they may have no choice but clean up the mess.

AQ is a fanatical extra terratorial organization that has to be combated in this manner with the aid of all countries over extended time with special forces incooperation of indigenous policing and organisations like interpole and some UN police force [yet to be created] . Few countries would tollerate there presence if the right pressure could be brought to bare.

Your never going to win the war on terror by attacking countries with armies. Start with the paper trail and see where it leads you. I hear the money seems to come from Saudia Arabia. Maybe a UN bankers organization needs to be set up to track this to the source to roote out this funding and thus help in the struggle against AQ.

Perhaps , you are right . Now we see Saddam do something . I do not mind he kill kurd , because more anti-war people say this event happen in Iraq (where are UN ?) , But saddam continuously opposes the western world in the instigation , so today there people hate allies , because they study hate when they are children .

Now see F-22 , F-35 , FCS , they important to U.S. safe , but use weapon for win , Now in Iraq allies need M1 , M2 , M113 . You afraid other country , yes , but if a country hope win , it can't only see weapon .

To terror I believe can win , but first need time , patient and self-confident .Some countries certainly are not willing to eliminate the terrorism, they want to use it , so this war will hard , danger .

To AQ attack wrold don't hope event can't occur, but must prepare the matter to have the after solution .

[seruriermarshal]

First , Hope everybody think Fallujah :

http://www.bouwman.com/911/Operation/Iraq/Falluja-Iraq.jpg
Now I only know some City periphery situation :
1. West of Fallujah , there have Euphrates river (Some Islands in river);
2. North of Fallujah, there have a railway ;
3. East of Fallujah , there have a highway ;
4. Fallujah have 200000 people , 1/3 left there ( when marines attack there ) .

[Truthsayer]

seruriermarshal>> What country are you from?

Didn't see any clear reply.