London Muslums call for rule of Islam and jihad on Europe

[obd]

The following is from the Monday April 26, 2004 front page of the New York Times......not all of it is taken directly from the article but 99% is. if you doubt its validity you may check the official New York Times webpage for this information. It is free to register if you are unable to obtain a copy of the NYT (such as if you live in Europe). It should be a wake up call to Europe and to the Spanish... Irregardless of what you think of Spains elections and its pull out from Iraq, radical Muslums have formed thier own opinions and these are what are important for us in terms of security...............I will not bash Spain. The world of Muslum Imams speek for themselves as to the repurcussions of what happened in Spain.....I suggest you read this in its entirity.... It is VERY interesting. Enjoy:


Luton, England, April 24- The call to jihad is rising in the streets of Europe, and is being answerd, according to counterterrorism officials in England. In Luton, a former industrial town north of London, a group of young Britons whose parents emigrated from Pakistan and other places after World War Two, have decided to turn against thier adopted homeland. They openly call for Prime Minister Tony Blair to be killed or deposed and for an Islamic flag to hang outside No. 10 Downing Street. In short, they feel when thier numbers are sufficient they will impose Islam across all of England. They swear allegiance to Osama Bin Laden and his goal of destroying all western democracies and to establish an Islamic superstate under Sharia law similar to Afghanistan as it was under Taliban rule.

They call the 9/11 hijackers the "maginificent 19" and regard the Madrid terror bombings as a clever tactic to drive a wedge between European nations themselves and also between Europe and America. On Thursday evening at a tennis center community hall in Slough, west of London, thier leader Sheik Omar Bakri Mohammad spoke openly about his adherence to Al Queda and Osama Bin Laden. He said, "IF Europe fails to heed the demands of Bin Laden and his offer of truce than all Muslums will no longer be restrained from attacking the English people and Western nations, even those who play host to large Muslum populations.

"All Muslums of the West", he said, "will be obliged to become the swords of Osama Bin Laden in a new battle to destroy Europe and America". He warned, "You Europeans should take head and fear us fore it is foolish to oppose those who seek death......this is what we Mujahideen are lookign for". On workinf class streets and industrial towns like Crawley, Luton, Birmingham and Manchester, and also in Arab enclaves in Germany, France, Switzerland, and other nations of Europe the call is rising for Islamic youth to take up the fight and begin attacks on European civilians and spread terror and death. According to European and American intelligence services, these calls for jihad are being answered with frightening regularity and fervor and jihadist are now more than ever willing to express themselves in the open.

In Hamburg Germany, Dr. Mustafa Yoldas, the director of the council of islamic communities, see's a relation to Iraq. "This is a very dangerous time for Europe and especially the United States. Muslums are angry with America". Hundreds and even thousands of Muslum youth are answering the call to jihad and joining extremist groups which are still prosperous in Europe despite crackdowns. Counterterror officials say the vast majority of these groups consider themselves part of Al Queda and seek to further its goals of destroying Western influence and power, including Europe.

Even more worrying, "chatter" (comm's between terrorist supporters) has increased several fold since Bin Ladens warning to Europe and it is feared that several attempts are underway all acorss Europe to create a mass casualty attack similar to 9/11 and even bigger than the Spansh rail bombings. They are seeking to create casualties in the many thousands of people. Terror official, as well as high level politicians in both England and France, have publicly stated that it is now only a matter of time beofre one such mass casuality strike is succesful... It is feared that numerous attacks are in the advanced stages of planning.

MAny Mosques in Europe openly display propaganda against America often hanging pictures of American soldiers alongside seperate pictures of smaaged buildings in Iraq. The increase in recruitment has coincided with an apparent new strategy to bring the fight to Europe. The recent bombings in Spain and subsequent change of government have left Al Queda and other Islamist groups with the impression that Europe is an easier target than America. According to terrorism officials, recent "chatter" has led to beleive Al Queda is now focused more than ever on assaulting Europe with the hopes it can crumble its support for a democratic Iraq and hamper American efforts in Iraq.

Members of Al Queada have prooved cleverly opportunistic as they have sought to split the Western alliance. According to captured individuals as well as intercepts, AQ forces are seeking to influence the smaller and weakest states of Europe by focusing strikes at the larger and more influential, and more secure, nations like England, France, Spain, Italy, and Germany in an effort to show how effective they can be and how unnefective the powerful western nations of Europe are at stopping them.

Counterterror officials in England and France have noted that European Muslums suspected of terrorism have stopped going to Iraq and are staying put. This has sparked fears that they are staying in Europe to prepare for the "war on Europe" and because Europe has a ready supply of young marginalized Muslum men likely to answer to call to Jihad.

British police recently seized 1,200 pounds of ammonium nitrate, a key bomb making inredient, and arrestedf nine Pakistani-Britons. These men, it is suspected, were planning to blow themselves up at a soccer match with Manchester United, an attack many say could have killed well over 3,000 as the Pakistani's had purchased tickets all over the stadium for maximum explosive damage.

Stoking the fires of radical Islam are clerics who have been preaching jihad and violence against the West since well before 9/11 or the invasion of Iraq... What has changed however is how many Muslums now listen and agree that the West must be destroyed. On Friday, Abu Hamza, the cleric many accuse of tutoring Richard Reid before he attempted to blow up a Pris to Miami airliner, urged a crowd of over 200 outside the infamous Finsbury Park mosque to "embrace death and the culture of martyrdom"

Though the British home secretay David Blunkett has taken action to defend England by attempting to strip Abu Hamza of his British citizenship his efforst have as of yet failed miserably and legal battles have dragged on as Abu Hamza calls daily for the rath of God to be brought down upon England.

Also, in another failure of David Blunkett, certainly not for lack of trying but more do to unsophisticated anti-terror laws, a 35 year old Algerian national suspected of terror plotting and held under the emergency laws was released from Belmarsh Prison due to "mental illness". Mr Blunkett vigorously protested the release of "a man already convicted in British courts and found to be a danger to life and liberty" but to no avail. Mr Blunket continued his fight to improve the defense of England by going on th BBC over the weekend and advocating stronger deportation laws.

Despite a few notable successes, British police and anti-terror officials complain regularly that they lack the legal authority to take any meaningful action against known threats and that they are virtually hadcuffed in the face of the widespread threats. They say they have been strugling for years ot contain the openly seditious speech of Islamic radicals who have been preeching jihad "since the 1990's".

For example, one chapter of SKeik Omars lecture reads "The psyche of Muslums for suicide bombings" and covers hpw to convice the young to blow themselves up for the faith. British auhtorities say that the laws to protect religious expression ar being woefuly obused in this case and limit any action they can take to stop these individuals. Often when enough evidence does exist, these trials drag on for years and are essentially open ended making it expremely time consuming to get anything meaningful done with one case often taking up the time and efforts of huge numbers of police that otherwise could be doing more.

In addition, in the case of foreignors, the deportation process in england is about as slow as any in the world and is subject ot numerous appeals which can again drag on for some time....while the individuals contunie to incite violence against British people.......This hampers British officials who often resort to "mousetrapping" terrorists with immigration violations in the hope it will make a deportation stick, which, weven in the rare case that it does, takes months and sometimes years..

At a mosqu in Geneva a local Islamic cleric recently implored his Muslum faithful to "impose the will of Islam on the godless society of the West" A senior official who had obtained taped transcripts of the sermon called it "virulent". The Imam was essentially advocated that Muslums force thier religion on the "godless Europe".

While incitement is very open, often taking place in the mosques, actualy recreuitment in England,( as well as in Europe and America) is done in a shadow world of face ot face contacts in bathrooms, restaraunts, movie theatres, coffee houses, gyms, private apartments, etc... Some clerics like Abu Qatada, the spiritual leader of Mohamed Atta who led the 9/11 terror attack on America, remain in prison in England without charge, others like Sheik Omar who leads a movement called "Al Muhajiroun" continue the ideological campaign work of thier imprisoned cohorts.

Sheik Omars response to the BBC after being told British Parliament members sought his deprtation was "They are Jewish and they have sought that for a long time". Among his disciples is a 25 year from Luton old named Ishtaiq Alamgir who heads the Luton branch of "Al Muhajiroun" and calls himself "Sayful Islam" which means "the word of Islam. He tells that thier are 50 open members of his group in Luton alone but that many more are secretly memberc. Most days, he runs a recruitment stand at Dunstable Road trying to recruit new terrorists among the passerby.

Some manstream Muslem leaders say that these groups represent a radical fringe and have even argued for thier deportation.... They say that it is a game of showmanship. Nevertheless they admit that they have lost control and influence to the radical clerics and that more and more Muslums are moving to the side of Jihad and violence.

In Slough England, Sheik Omar spent Thursday night preaching the erotc delights of the Martyr......sweet kisses and the pleasures of bathing with scores of women.....while also preaching the virtue of death in the Islamic struggle as a ticket to paradise. He warned. "you may kill Osama, but oyu cannot kill the phenomenon. You cannot kill Muslum militancy. You cannot stop us. You cannot destroy us.. Our Muslum brothers will one day come to England and conquer this place and rid it of you unbelievers and we Muslums will finally be able to live in the digniity of Islam as we ounce did.........

[American Patriot]

Those bastards!

[born_to_kill]

I dont want to sound like a nazi or anything but something has to be done.

[Kilgor]

Unless Islam faces up to the radicals, the whole religion will be tarred with the same brush.

[EvanL]

Unless Islam faces up to the radicals, the whole religion will be tarred with the same brush.
Sadly its muslims like those that are turning this into a war on islam. Just a thought.

[martinexsquaddie]

the local muslims where complaining abouit omar and and captain hook for years and nothing was done.
shek omar unfortunatly needs taking out big style

[seruriermarshal]

Sh*t , must kill those bastards !

[budanski]

Well, cut™ won't like this.

[seruriermarshal]

Perhaps country must control mosque .

[StealthMode]

War with Islamic extremist to wipe them out, before they gain advantages... seriouly, next WW3, and its obvious who the aggressors are.

[American Patriot]

oh **** guys, CUT won't like this one bit!

[seruriermarshal]

War with Islamic extremist to wipe them out, before they gain advantages... seriouly, next WW3, and its obvious who the aggressors are.

Now is WW3 , Kill those sh*t !

[Kenshin]

oh **** guys, CUT won't like this one bit!

I am more afraid of what the QUEEN might say.

[fdt]

Funniest thing is that yanks don't take fingerprints nor photos of UK citizens coming to US... as they don't need visas to eneter. :lol:

[Kilgor]

I just worry the civilized world wont have the balls or the stomach to face up to this threat.

France recently deported a hardline muslim cleric who endorsed wife bashing (amonst other things), but a liberaly pussy judge ordered the explusion illegal.

F*cking liberals :fork:

[sierraone]

Unless Islam faces up to the radicals, the whole religion will be tarred with the same brush.
Sadly its muslims like those that are turning this into a war on islam. Just a thought.

Personally I don't have a problem with a war on Islam.

Firstly, if the plain ordinary muslims did more to denounce these guys and actively ostracise them themselves from their communities it might have helped.

Secondly if they stopped believing that in the world there are two kinds of people, muslims and non-muslims and being one is so goddamn important . If they stopped believing that someone is right or wrong depending on what goddamn religion he is it might have helped.

Thrirdly, if they abandoned their intolerant, undemocratic, racist and sexist, absolutist beliefs and practises and joined the civilised world, yeah then it might have helped.

Until these things happen the war will not be over.

[mocking_loudly_died]

The UK law enforcement has pretty good links with the moderate Muslim communities, so any real funny business isn't tolerated. They allow the militants to mouth off to an extent but when they start actively planning operations - then it's hammer time.

[Kilgor]

One has to face the facts that Islam is very incompatable with modern western values.

Our open society, secularism, relaxed values, ******ity, entertainment (ie drinking ) equal treatment of women, fair treatment of homo******s, and scores of other values go directly against Islamic teachings.

[mocking_loudly_died]

One has to face the facts that Islam is very incompatable with modern western values.

Our open society, secularism, relaxed values, ******ity, entertainment (ie drinking ) equal treatment of women, fair treatment of homo******s, and scores of other values go directly against Islamic teachings.

Yeah but the Christian religion doesn't support boozing up and sticking your willy in your mates arse either. I hate all fundamentalists equally - It's pretty easy to sum up a load of people into a generic mob of "evilness" (something even the fantastic Mocking Loudly has been guilty of).

Reject the loonies, judge people on individual merits.

[Kilgor]

But the difference is secularism.

I didnt think christians had a problem with booze though ?
in moderation of course.

[mocking_loudly_died]

But the difference is secularism.

I didnt think christians had a problem with booze though ?
in moderation of course.

I was just being a silly git.

[sierraone]

Yeah but the Christian religion doesn't support boozing up and sticking your willy in your mates arse either. I hate all fundamentalists equally - It's pretty easy to sum up a load of people into a generic mob of "evilness" (something even the fantastic Mocking Loudly has been guilty of).

Reject the loonies, judge people on individual merits.

Wasn't there talk in England about a priest that is gay and him being promoted to archbishop or something?

[Mr Gently Benevolent]

The following is from the Monday April 26, 2004 front page of the New York Times......not all of it is taken directly from the article but 99% is.
Is the other 1% artistic license obd, sometimes you describe a country that is totally alien to my own I never seem to recognise the the UK or her armed forces when write about them.

[Mr Gently Benevolent]

Wasn't there talk in England about a priest that is gay and him being promoted to archbishop or something?
And this is a big deal to you?

[Marmot1]

Funniest thing is that yanks don't take fingerprints nor photos of UK citizens coming to US... as they don't need visas to eneter. :lol:

Yeah but they have nice collection of fingerprints of citizens of medium european country where 95% are catholics and only less than 0,01% muslims rofl

[sierraone]

Wasn't there talk in England about a priest that is gay and him being promoted to archbishop or something?
And this is a big deal to you?
Is it a big deal to you that I am asking? Is it true or not?

[Mr Gently Benevolent]

Wasn't there talk in England about a priest that is gay and him being promoted to archbishop or something?
And this is a big deal to you?
Is it a big deal to you that I am asking? Is it true or not?
As far as I am aware it is true.

[Geezah]

It's a shame really but when you have the Muslim extremists pushing more and more, I think you may find more Caucasian Brits being drawn towards the National Front and organisations like Combat 18. This is the fuel that these groups need to recruit and the Muslim extremists bad apples are going to make it bad form all Muslims.


This is a very dangerous time for Europe and especially the United States. Muslums are angry with America".

Where I live in the Midwest, it's in the Bible Belt and and is very pro Christian, you have a few Muslim Mosques but they're very low key because the stuff that comes out of old Captain Hooks mouth wouldn't be tolerated by the some of the Rednecks around here.
It's a shame really but I've even been bitten by the Racial Profiling bug, I see a woman or man in what is commonly seen as Muslim garb out and about I find myself following them around with my eyes. No more "live and let live" :|

[cut]

Wasn't there talk in England about a priest that is gay and him being promoted to archbishop or something?
And this is a big deal to you?
Is it a big deal to you that I am asking? Is it true or not?

yes it was true but that was the anglican church, and they decided against making him a bishop in the end. If you're trying to breakdown mockings argument saying that christianity is roughly no less compatible than islam in western society then I say think again. Modern western society, allows abortions, gay ***, extramarital ***, the use of condoms and other contaception, catholicism doen't, so do we get rid of that too?

The vast majority of western society eats a lot of beef, in hinduism that is banned, get rid of them too?

No-one can argue that islam is less adaptable, just because it was too much too soon for Iran and they rejected capitalism and went for islam doesn't mean that is the case for all muslims.

[cut]

The following is from the Monday April 26, 2004 front page of the New York Times......not all of it is taken directly from the article but 99% is. if you doubt its validity you may check the official New York Times webpage for this information. It is free to register if you are unable to obtain a copy of the NYT (such as if you live in Europe). It should be a wake up call to Europe and to the Spanish... Irregardless of what you think of Spains elections and its pull out from Iraq, radical Muslums have formed thier own opinions and these are what are important for us in terms of security...............I will not bash Spain. The world of Muslum Imams speek for themselves as to the repurcussions of what happened in Spain.....I suggest you read this in its entirity.... It is VERY interesting. Enjoy:


Luton, England, April 24- The call to jihad is rising in the streets of Europe, and is being answerd, according to counterterrorism officials in England. In Luton, a former industrial town north of London, a group of young Britons whose parents emigrated from Pakistan and other places after World War Two, have decided to turn against thier adopted homeland. They openly call for Prime Minister Tony Blair to be killed or deposed and for an Islamic flag to hang outside No. 10 Downing Street. In short, they feel when thier numbers are sufficient they will impose Islam across all of England. They swear allegiance to Osama Bin Laden and his goal of destroying all western democracies and to establish an Islamic superstate under Sharia law similar to Afghanistan as it was under Taliban rule.

They call the 9/11 hijackers the "maginificent 19" and regard the Madrid terror bombings as a clever tactic to drive a wedge between European nations themselves and also between Europe and America. On Thursday evening at a tennis center community hall in Slough, west of London, thier leader Sheik Omar Bakri Mohammad spoke openly about his adherence to Al Queda and Osama Bin Laden. He said, "IF Europe fails to heed the demands of Bin Laden and his offer of truce than all Muslums will no longer be restrained from attacking the English people and Western nations, even those who play host to large Muslum populations.

"All Muslums of the West", he said, "will be obliged to become the swords of Osama Bin Laden in a new battle to destroy Europe and America". He warned, "You Europeans should take head and fear us fore it is foolish to oppose those who seek death......this is what we Mujahideen are lookign for". On workinf class streets and industrial towns like Crawley, Luton, Birmingham and Manchester, and also in Arab enclaves in Germany, France, Switzerland, and other nations of Europe the call is rising for Islamic youth to take up the fight and begin attacks on European civilians and spread terror and death. According to European and American intelligence services, these calls for jihad are being answered with frightening regularity and fervor and jihadist are now more than ever willing to express themselves in the open.

In Hamburg Germany, Dr. Mustafa Yoldas, the director of the council of islamic communities, see's a relation to Iraq. "This is a very dangerous time for Europe and especially the United States. Muslums are angry with America". Hundreds and even thousands of Muslum youth are answering the call to jihad and joining extremist groups which are still prosperous in Europe despite crackdowns. Counterterror officials say the vast majority of these groups consider themselves part of Al Queda and seek to further its goals of destroying Western influence and power, including Europe.

Even more worrying, "chatter" (comm's between terrorist supporters) has increased several fold since Bin Ladens warning to Europe and it is feared that several attempts are underway all acorss Europe to create a mass casualty attack similar to 9/11 and even bigger than the Spansh rail bombings. They are seeking to create casualties in the many thousands of people. Terror official, as well as high level politicians in both England and France, have publicly stated that it is now only a matter of time beofre one such mass casuality strike is succesful... It is feared that numerous attacks are in the advanced stages of planning.

MAny Mosques in Europe openly display propaganda against America often hanging pictures of American soldiers alongside seperate pictures of smaaged buildings in Iraq. The increase in recruitment has coincided with an apparent new strategy to bring the fight to Europe. The recent bombings in Spain and subsequent change of government have left Al Queda and other Islamist groups with the impression that Europe is an easier target than America. According to terrorism officials, recent "chatter" has led to beleive Al Queda is now focused more than ever on assaulting Europe with the hopes it can crumble its support for a democratic Iraq and hamper American efforts in Iraq.

Members of Al Queada have prooved cleverly opportunistic as they have sought to split the Western alliance. According to captured individuals as well as intercepts, AQ forces are seeking to influence the smaller and weakest states of Europe by focusing strikes at the larger and more influential, and more secure, nations like England, France, Spain, Italy, and Germany in an effort to show how effective they can be and how unnefective the powerful western nations of Europe are at stopping them.

Counterterror officials in England and France have noted that European Muslums suspected of terrorism have stopped going to Iraq and are staying put. This has sparked fears that they are staying in Europe to prepare for the "war on Europe" and because Europe has a ready supply of young marginalized Muslum men likely to answer to call to Jihad.

British police recently seized 1,200 pounds of ammonium nitrate, a key bomb making inredient, and arrestedf nine Pakistani-Britons. These men, it is suspected, were planning to blow themselves up at a soccer match with Manchester United, an attack many say could have killed well over 3,000 as the Pakistani's had purchased tickets all over the stadium for maximum explosive damage.

Stoking the fires of radical Islam are clerics who have been preaching jihad and violence against the West since well before 9/11 or the invasion of Iraq... What has changed however is how many Muslums now listen and agree that the West must be destroyed. On Friday, Abu Hamza, the cleric many accuse of tutoring Richard Reid before he attempted to blow up a Pris to Miami airliner, urged a crowd of over 200 outside the infamous Finsbury Park mosque to "embrace death and the culture of martyrdom"

Though the British home secretay David Blunkett has taken action to defend England by attempting to strip Abu Hamza of his British citizenship his efforst have as of yet failed miserably and legal battles have dragged on as Abu Hamza calls daily for the rath of God to be brought down upon England.

Also, in another failure of David Blunkett, certainly not for lack of trying but more do to unsophisticated anti-terror laws, a 35 year old Algerian national suspected of terror plotting and held under the emergency laws was released from Belmarsh Prison due to "mental illness". Mr Blunkett vigorously protested the release of "a man already convicted in British courts and found to be a danger to life and liberty" but to no avail. Mr Blunket continued his fight to improve the defense of England by going on th BBC over the weekend and advocating stronger deportation laws.

Despite a few notable successes, British police and anti-terror officials complain regularly that they lack the legal authority to take any meaningful action against known threats and that they are virtually hadcuffed in the face of the widespread threats. They say they have been strugling for years ot contain the openly seditious speech of Islamic radicals who have been preeching jihad "since the 1990's".

For example, one chapter of SKeik Omars lecture reads "The psyche of Muslums for suicide bombings" and covers hpw to convice the young to blow themselves up for the faith. British auhtorities say that the laws to protect religious expression ar being woefuly obused in this case and limit any action they can take to stop these individuals. Often when enough evidence does exist, these trials drag on for years and are essentially open ended making it expremely time consuming to get anything meaningful done with one case often taking up the time and efforts of huge numbers of police that otherwise could be doing more.

In addition, in the case of foreignors, the deportation process in england is about as slow as any in the world and is subject ot numerous appeals which can again drag on for some time....while the individuals contunie to incite violence against British people.......This hampers British officials who often resort to "mousetrapping" terrorists with immigration violations in the hope it will make a deportation stick, which, weven in the rare case that it does, takes months and sometimes years..

At a mosqu in Geneva a local Islamic cleric recently implored his Muslum faithful to "impose the will of Islam on the godless society of the West" A senior official who had obtained taped transcripts of the sermon called it "virulent". The Imam was essentially advocated that Muslums force thier religion on the "godless Europe".

While incitement is very open, often taking place in the mosques, actualy recreuitment in England,( as well as in Europe and America) is done in a shadow world of face ot face contacts in bathrooms, restaraunts, movie theatres, coffee houses, gyms, private apartments, etc... Some clerics like Abu Qatada, the spiritual leader of Mohamed Atta who led the 9/11 terror attack on America, remain in prison in England without charge, others like Sheik Omar who leads a movement called "Al Muhajiroun" continue the ideological campaign work of thier imprisoned cohorts.

Sheik Omars response to the BBC after being told British Parliament members sought his deprtation was "They are Jewish and they have sought that for a long time". Among his disciples is a 25 year from Luton old named Ishtaiq Alamgir who heads the Luton branch of "Al Muhajiroun" and calls himself "Sayful Islam" which means "the word of Islam. He tells that thier are 50 open members of his group in Luton alone but that many more are secretly memberc. Most days, he runs a recruitment stand at Dunstable Road trying to recruit new terrorists among the passerby.

Some manstream Muslem leaders say that these groups represent a radical fringe and have even argued for thier deportation.... They say that it is a game of showmanship. Nevertheless they admit that they have lost control and influence to the radical clerics and that more and more Muslums are moving to the side of Jihad and violence.

In Slough England, Sheik Omar spent Thursday night preaching the erotc delights of the Martyr......sweet kisses and the pleasures of bathing with scores of women.....while also preaching the virtue of death in the Islamic struggle as a ticket to paradise. He warned. "you may kill Osama, but oyu cannot kill the phenomenon. You cannot kill Muslum militancy. You cannot stop us. You cannot destroy us.. Our Muslum brothers will one day come to England and conquer this place and rid it of you unbelievers and we Muslums will finally be able to live in the digniity of Islam as we ounce did.........


Most of this is old news, this kind of exagerating the situation is handing it to terrorists making americans believe that terrorism istaking over Europe. This kind of scaremongering serves no purpose other then that of aiding the terrorist and lining the wallet of this newspaper, because people like to read this sensationalist crap.


The news that pisses me off is that Abu Hamza (hook) is drawing out his court hearing until January 2005 and if the americans did what they said they were going to do which is arrest him and deport him to Guantanamo. Because he is a british national by marriage it takes far longer for us to extradite him trying to argue that his crimes are so bad that he has to be stripped of citizenship when the US can simply take him out of this country merely on suspicion of a crime for him to face trial.

[cut]

I knew this bit was changed, so I checked,






In Slough England, Sheik Omar spent Thursday night preaching the erotc delights of the Martyr......sweet kisses and the pleasures of bathing with scores of women.....while also preaching the virtue of death in the Islamic struggle as a ticket to paradise.




In Slough, Sheik Omar spent much of his time Thursday night regaling his young followers with the erotic delights of paradise — sweet kisses and the pleasures of bathing with scores of women — while he also preached the virtues of death in Islamic struggle as a ticket to paradise.

If you are going to copy it do so properly, there's a huge amount of difference between these two, if the author really meant that he was preaching about the delights of being a martyr then the article would have said that.

In a newspaper as in politics you mention two things close together and people think they are linked. Bush often refered to 9/11 and Iraq in close proximity despite there being no link.

Here the author has cleverly done the same thing, mention the "women in paradise" and then in the next line write about "death in Islamic struggle". And you fall right for it, just like the people who thought there was a link between 9/11 and Iraq.


The reason I know why this couldn't have been what he said was not because I condone him in anyway, I would never even think that, but because I was reading about the difficulties of extraditing someone on terrorist charges including, incitement of racial violence, and found out that these clerics have to watch their words very carefully they would never nowadays at least talk about matyrdom in public.

[cut]

It's a shame really but when you have the Muslim extremists pushing more and more, I think you may find more Caucasian Brits being drawn towards the National Front and organisations like Combat 18. This is the fuel that these groups need to recruit and the Muslim extremists bad apples are going to make it bad form all Muslims.


This is a very dangerous time for Europe and especially the United States. Muslums are angry with America".

Where I live in the Midwest, it's in the Bible Belt and and is very pro Christian, you have a few Muslim Mosques but they're very low key because the stuff that comes out of old Captain Hooks mouth wouldn't be tolerated by the some of the Rednecks around here.
It's a shame really but I've even been bitten by the Racial Profiling bug, I see a woman or man in what is commonly seen as Muslim garb out and about I find myself following them around with my eyes. No more "live and let live" :|

rofl combat 18? you must be kidding, I'll give you BNP but that is also because they have been taking lessons from Le Pen in how to become more moderate.

I don't suppose you being so cut off from British society saw what happened to Le Pen when he visited yesterday?

[Mr Gently Benevolent]

I don't suppose you being so cut off from British society saw what happened to Le Pen when he visited yesterday?
Yep Geezah chased like a rabbit the doddering old Nazi was made to feel very unwelcome. ;)

[ShadowNeo]

Firstly, if the plain ordinary muslims did more to denounce these guys and actively ostracise them themselves from their communities it might have helped.

Secondly if they stopped believing that in the world there are two kinds of people, muslims and non-muslims and being one is so goddamn important . If they stopped believing that someone is right or wrong depending on what goddamn religion he is it might have helped.

Thrirdly, if they abandoned their intolerant, undemocratic, racist and sexist, absolutist beliefs and practises and joined the civilised world, yeah then it might have helped.

You obviously don't know many Muslims, do you?

1) Muslim communities are usually very close, and are being made even closer by growing bigotry and mis-informed intollerance from those outside. Many communities DO take steps to change the views of the extremists within them, although it is a two sided affair - you cannot place the sole responsibility on Muslims, it is the duty of all society. What more do you want Muslims to do? Sing and dance around in the streets against extremism?

2) You seriously think most modern Muslims believe this? Perhaps in some less developed countries, i.e Iraq, but to brand the Muslims in the UK, for instance, as having the same mentality is quite frankly stupid.

3) Again, Islam is just as adjustable to the modern world as any other religion, many Muslims that I have known and those that are my friends are living testament to this.

[Truthsayer]

Yeah but the Christian religion doesn't support boozing up and sticking your willy in your mates arse either. I hate all fundamentalists equally - It's pretty easy to sum up a load of people into a generic mob of "evilness" (something even the fantastic Mocking Loudly has been guilty of).

Reject the loonies, judge people on individual merits.

Wasn't there talk in England about a priest that is gay and him being promoted to archbishop or something?

The country is called US of A.

[Geezah]

It's a shame really but when you have the Muslim extremists pushing more and more, I think you may find more Caucasian Brits being drawn towards the National Front and organisations like Combat 18. This is the fuel that these groups need to recruit and the Muslim extremists bad apples are going to make it bad form all Muslims.


This is a very dangerous time for Europe and especially the United States. Muslums are angry with America".

Where I live in the Midwest, it's in the Bible Belt and and is very pro Christian, you have a few Muslim Mosques but they're very low key because the stuff that comes out of old Captain Hooks mouth wouldn't be tolerated by the some of the Rednecks around here.
It's a shame really but I've even been bitten by the Racial Profiling bug, I see a woman or man in what is commonly seen as Muslim garb out and about I find myself following them around with my eyes. No more "live and let live" :|

rofl combat 18? you must be kidding, I'll give you BNP but that is also because they have been taking lessons from Le Pen in how to become more moderate.

I don't suppose you being so cut off from British society saw what happened to Le Pen when he visited yesterday?

How am I cut off from British society? I may live over here but I keep on top of what's going on over there?

If more and more people get upset about immigration and crap like ol Hook, I forsee the NF/BNP getting more supporters, I then see a few more people being drawn towards organisations like Combat 18(which is no different to Hook followers) and other NF groups.

[Geezah]

I don't suppose you being so cut off from British society saw what happened to Le Pen when he visited yesterday?
Yep Geezah chased like a rabbit the doddering old Nazi was made to feel very unwelcome. ;)

I heard he had some nice new bonnet ornamments :)

[ShadowNeo]

I heard he had some nice new bonnet ornamments

More like a Limited Edition Eggs n Flour paint job on his car :).

[cut]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/media/images/40081000/jpg/_40081039_lepenpicgallery8.jpg

http://news.bbc.co.uk/media/images/40081000/jpg/_40081035_lepenpicgallery6.jpg

http://news.bbc.co.uk/media/images/40081000/jpg/_40081033_lepenpicgallery5.jpg

http://news.bbc.co.uk/media/images/40081000/jpg/_40081023_lepenpicgallery1.jpg


http://news.bbc.co.uk/media/images/40081000/jpg/_40081029_lepenpicgallery3.jpg

:fork: :fork:

[Geezah]

Firstly, if the plain ordinary muslims did more to denounce these guys and actively ostracise them themselves from their communities it might have helped.

Secondly if they stopped believing that in the world there are two kinds of people, muslims and non-muslims and being one is so goddamn important . If they stopped believing that someone is right or wrong depending on what goddamn religion he is it might have helped.

Thrirdly, if they abandoned their intolerant, undemocratic, racist and sexist, absolutist beliefs and practises and joined the civilised world, yeah then it might have helped.

You obviously don't know many Muslims, do you?

1) Muslim communities are usually very close, and are being made even closer by growing bigotry and mis-informed intollerance from those outside. Many communities DO take steps to change the views of the extremists within them, although it is a two sided affair - you cannot place the sole responsibility on Muslims, it is the duty of all society. What more do you want Muslims to do? Sing and dance around in the streets against extremism?

2) You seriously think most modern Muslims believe this? Perhaps in some less developed countries, i.e Iraq, but to brand the Muslims in the UK, for instance, as having the same mentality is quite frankly stupid.

3) Again, Islam is just as adjustable to the modern world as any other religion, many Muslims that I have known and those that are my friends are living testament to this.


No time to be weak, sister told Briton in last email



The sister of the first British suicide bomber recruited by Hamas actively encouraged her brother, sending him an e-mail in case his resolve faltered at the last minute, an Old Bailey jury was told yesterday.

Omar Sharif, 27, and his 21-year-old friend, Asil Hanif, both British Muslims, slipped into Israel posing as tourists in April last year and checked into a hostel in Tel Aviv.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/graphics/2004/04/27/nsuic27.jpg
In their room they shaved their bodies "because martyrs want to be clean when they enter paradise", assembled the bombs, strapped them to their torsos and hid them under their clothes.

But before Sharif set out for a busy waterfront area he received an e-mail from his sister Parveen, 36.

It urged him: "We all have to be firm and focused with reality as time is slipping away, and there is really no time to be weak and emotional.

"Stay focused and determined."

Sharif and Hanif set out with their bombs and waited until the area got busier and there were more potential victims to kill and maim. Hanif detonated his bomb outside Mike's Place, a popular bar, killing himself, three others and injuring 65.

Sharif's bomb failed to go off and he fled, dumping it nearby. Twelve days later his body was found in the sea off the Israeli coast. "The circumstances of his death are not clear, although the post mortem findings are consistent with drowning," said Jonathan Laidlaw, prosecuting.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/graphics/2004/04/27/nsuic27a.jpg

Parveen Sharif, a supply teacher, pleaded not guilty to inciting Omar Sharif to commit an act of terrorism and failing to disclose information about terrorism.

Sharif's wife, Tahira Tabassum, 28, a maths teacher, and his brother, Zahid Sharif, 37, an engineer, both denied failing to disclose information about terrorism.

The three, all from Derby, are charged under a rarely used section of the Terrorism Act added by Parliament after the September 11 attacks.

Mr Laidlaw told the jury that Sharif and Hanif, who came from Hounslow, west London, were the first British Muslims to have taken part in a suicide bombing. He added: "It was the first time Hamas had used non-Palestinian volunteers for terrorist attacks of this type."

Mr Laidlaw said the legislation involved might, at first sight, seem to pose a dilemma for family members.

But where it involved a very obvious risk to life from a terrorist attack, the moral obligation to come forward, whatever the political climate, "far outweighs the loyalty of family ties".

The trial continues today.



Telegraph (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2004/04/27/nsuic27.xml&sSheet=/news/2004/04/27/ixhome.html&secureRefresh=true&_requestid=92963)

[cut]

nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

not the telegraph :P

The amount of times I've had to point out the bull**** that's in there

[ShadowNeo]

Geezah,

I see you quoted my post there, obviously there will be extremists that will get through, but are you suggesting that all Muslim families are like this?

[Geezah]

nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

not the telegraph :P

There's nothing wrong with the Telegraph :D

[cut]

nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

not the telegraph :P

There's nothing wrong with the Telegraph :D
Is there's nothing wrong with the Guardian either?

[Geezah]

Geezah,

I see you quoted my post there, obviously there will be extremists that will get through, but are you suggesting that all Muslim families are like this?

If they're so against these extremists then why aren't they out there marching and displaying their disgust for Captain Hook? and for these extremist groups, you see enough people come out against the BNP/NF but you don't see people(Muslims) marching against Muslim extremist(I would like to be proven wrong on this one!).

[Geezah]

nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

not the telegraph :P

There's nothing wrong with the Telegraph :D
Is there's nothing wrong with the Guardian either?

I used to read the Daily Mail then the Daily Express, now it's the Sun, BBC News and the Telegraph.

Never really got into the Guardian :)

[Geezah]

Geezah,

I see you quoted my post there, obviously there will be extremists that will get through, but are you suggesting that all Muslim families are like this?

If they're so against these extremists then why aren't they out there marching and displaying their disgust for Captain Hook? and for these extremist groups, you see enough people come out against the BNP/NF but you don't see people(Muslims) marching against Muslim extremist(I would like to be proven wrong on this one!).

What about the Tipton 4, I don't remeber any marches against those guys even though there was proof that they were a danger to the public?

[Truthsayer]

Geezah,

I see you quoted my post there, obviously there will be extremists that will get through, but are you suggesting that all Muslim families are like this?

If they're so against these extremists then why aren't they out there marching and displaying their disgust for Captain Hook? and for these extremist groups, you see enough people come out against the BNP/NF but you don't see people(Muslims) marching against Muslim extremist(I would like to be proven wrong on this one!).

Have you ever marched against the KKK?
Moral Majority? National Commuist Party?

You f0cking racist, white supremasist, fasicst, communist, ******-lover.

*sigh*

[ShadowNeo]

If they're so against these extremists then why aren't they out there marching and displaying their disgust for Captain Hook? and for these extremist groups, you see enough people come out against the BNP/NF but you don't see people(Muslims) marching against Muslim extremist(I would like to be proven wrong on this one!).

So they have to be out marching on the streets? So the fact that those preaching within the vast majority of mosques actively denounce the extremists doesn't cut it?

[Geezah]

Geezah,

I see you quoted my post there, obviously there will be extremists that will get through, but are you suggesting that all Muslim families are like this?

If they're so against these extremists then why aren't they out there marching and displaying their disgust for Captain Hook? and for these extremist groups, you see enough people come out against the BNP/NF but you don't see people(Muslims) marching against Muslim extremist(I would like to be proven wrong on this one!).

Have you ever marched against the KKK?
Moral Majority? National Commuist Party?

You f0cking racist, white supremasist, fasicst, communist, ******-lover.

*sigh*

How am I a rascist? I'm not showing support for any group here? :roll:

[cut]

nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

not the telegraph :P

There's nothing wrong with the Telegraph :D
Is there's nothing wrong with the Guardian either?

I used to read the Daily Mail then the Daily Express, now it's the Sun, BBC News and the Telegraph.

Never really got into the Guardian :)

i occasionally read the daily mail but it's a load of bumf

the daily express now has that ****ographer/racist/nut as an onwer and has taken a bit f a nose dive.

I occasionally read the Sun (very light reading), the BBC (no finer institution in the world despite the WMD incident, and times/independent for heavy reading.

I never buy the telegraph or the guardian they are to extremist in terms of papers, so no point bothering.

[Truthsayer]

Geezah,

I see you quoted my post there, obviously there will be extremists that will get through, but are you suggesting that all Muslim families are like this?

If they're so against these extremists then why aren't they out there marching and displaying their disgust for Captain Hook? and for these extremist groups, you see enough people come out against the BNP/NF but you don't see people(Muslims) marching against Muslim extremist(I would like to be proven wrong on this one!).

Have you ever marched against the KKK?
Moral Majority? National Commuist Party?

You f0cking racist, white supremasist, fasicst, communist, ******-lover.

*sigh*

How am I a rascist? I'm not showing support for any group here? :roll:

By not marching against them you are supporting them.

Just applying your own distorted logic.

Did you take the red or the blue pill?

[Geezah]

If they're so against these extremists then why aren't they out there marching and displaying their disgust for Captain Hook? and for these extremist groups, you see enough people come out against the BNP/NF but you don't see people(Muslims) marching against Muslim extremist(I would like to be proven wrong on this one!).

So they have to be out marching on the streets? So the fact that those preaching within the vast majority of mosques actively denounce the extremists doesn't cut it?

So what you're telling me is that no Muslim has ever marched against the Muslim Extremists? why is that?

If something was taking place in my back garden then I might be more inclined to do something about it be it the KKK or Farrakhan's(as neither group is good), I'm sorry but saying Captain Hook is a bad man and leaving it at that doesn't cut it in my book especially as the Country that has been adpoted as their own needs more support than that!


I see a couple of Muslim girls marching against Nazis here?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/media/images/40081000/jpg/_40081039_lepenpicgallery8.jpg

[Geezah]

Geezah,

I see you quoted my post there, obviously there will be extremists that will get through, but are you suggesting that all Muslim families are like this?

If they're so against these extremists then why aren't they out there marching and displaying their disgust for Captain Hook? and for these extremist groups, you see enough people come out against the BNP/NF but you don't see people(Muslims) marching against Muslim extremist(I would like to be proven wrong on this one!).

Have you ever marched against the KKK?
Moral Majority? National Commuist Party?

You f0cking racist, white supremasist, fasicst, communist, ******-lover.

*sigh*

How am I a rascist? I'm not showing support for any group here? :roll:

By not marching against them you are supporting them.

Just applying your own distorted logic.

Did you take the red or the blue pill?

I knew a guy that was an Anti-Facist Skinhead, so I guess that means I did something?

[cut]

If they're so against these extremists then why aren't they out there marching and displaying their disgust for Captain Hook? and for these extremist groups, you see enough people come out against the BNP/NF but you don't see people(Muslims) marching against Muslim extremist(I would like to be proven wrong on this one!).

So they have to be out marching on the streets? So the fact that those preaching within the vast majority of mosques actively denounce the extremists doesn't cut it?

So what you're telling me is that no Muslim has ever marched against the Muslim Extremists? why is that?

If something was taking place in my back garden then I might be more inclined to do something about it be it the KKK or Farrakhan's(as neither group is good), I'm sorry but saying Captain Hook is a bad man and leaving it at that doesn't cut it in my book especially as the Country that has been adpoted as their own needs more support than that!


I see a couple of Muslim girls marching against Nazis here?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/media/images/40081000/jpg/_40081039_lepenpicgallery8.jpg

muslims have marched against muslim extremists, look at the response after 9/11, or were you too busy focusing your attention on those that supported it like the media?

those muslim girls have every right to protest against Le Pen he's been involved in anti-muslim crimes for decades in france.

[Geezah]

If they're so against these extremists then why aren't they out there marching and displaying their disgust for Captain Hook? and for these extremist groups, you see enough people come out against the BNP/NF but you don't see people(Muslims) marching against Muslim extremist(I would like to be proven wrong on this one!).

So they have to be out marching on the streets? So the fact that those preaching within the vast majority of mosques actively denounce the extremists doesn't cut it?

So what you're telling me is that no Muslim has ever marched against the Muslim Extremists? why is that?

If something was taking place in my back garden then I might be more inclined to do something about it be it the KKK or Farrakhan's(as neither group is good), I'm sorry but saying Captain Hook is a bad man and leaving it at that doesn't cut it in my book especially as the Country that has been adpoted as their own needs more support than that!


I see a couple of Muslim girls marching against Nazis here?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/media/images/40081000/jpg/_40081039_lepenpicgallery8.jpg

muslims have marched against muslim extremists, look at the response after 9/11, or were you too busy focusing your attention on those that supported it like the media?

those muslim girls have every right to protest against Le Pen he's been involved in anti-muslim crimes for decades in france.

I don't remember seeing any Muslims protesting against Captian Hook as openly as the picture above shows them protesting against a Nazi, now you mention it, when 9/11 happened I remember seeing a Muslim woman in Palastine that was singing and dancing about what happened!

I fully believe that those Muslim girls have every right to protest but it would be nice if this was more evenly spread out rather than against people that are not from their chosen(or born into) faith?

[cut]

If they're so against these extremists then why aren't they out there marching and displaying their disgust for Captain Hook? and for these extremist groups, you see enough people come out against the BNP/NF but you don't see people(Muslims) marching against Muslim extremist(I would like to be proven wrong on this one!).

So they have to be out marching on the streets? So the fact that those preaching within the vast majority of mosques actively denounce the extremists doesn't cut it?

So what you're telling me is that no Muslim has ever marched against the Muslim Extremists? why is that?

If something was taking place in my back garden then I might be more inclined to do something about it be it the KKK or Farrakhan's(as neither group is good), I'm sorry but saying Captain Hook is a bad man and leaving it at that doesn't cut it in my book especially as the Country that has been adpoted as their own needs more support than that!


I see a couple of Muslim girls marching against Nazis here?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/media/images/40081000/jpg/_40081039_lepenpicgallery8.jpg

muslims have marched against muslim extremists, look at the response after 9/11, or were you too busy focusing your attention on those that supported it like the media?

those muslim girls have every right to protest against Le Pen he's been involved in anti-muslim crimes for decades in france.

I don't remember seeing any Muslims protesting against Captian Hook as openly as the picture above shows them protesting against a Nazi, now you mention it, when 9/11 happened I remember seeing a Muslim woman in Palastine that was singing and dancing about what happened!
I fully believe that those Muslim girls have every right to protest but it would be nice if this was more evenly spread out rather than against people that are not from their chosen(or born into) faith?

yeah and I remember seeing a pic on this site of the BNP protesting at the finchely park mosque, the media doesn't focus on the others




after 9/11

http://groups.colgate.edu/aarislam/FLMuslimaAmericanflagicna.jpg

http://groups.colgate.edu/aarislam/Iranvigil0918-03.jpg
Tehran September 18

http://groups.colgate.edu/aarislam/Bangladeshpeacemarch.jpg
Bangledeshi Muslims after September 11

[SeanAshi]

http://www.yesha.org.il/islam.htm

[cut]

http://www.yesha.org.il/islam.htm

are you trying to stir up hatred or something? read what I wrote don't just look at the pictures

[Red]

I understand what all of you guys are saying but at the end of it,i fear that it will and indeed has become a clash of civilization wheter we like it or not.

[cut]

I understand what all of you guys are saying but at the end of it,i fear that it will and indeed has become a clash of civilization wheter we like it or not.

[benibo, right?]


Saying it's a clash of civilisations is rubish, people said that about the French and Germans or in Britian about the Catholics in the 17th century. It has not become a clash of civilisations while there still are muslims that can happily live in the west and follow islam. Those who are unhappy are those who are poor and have been made poor by the west, they are the worlds losers through no fault of their own. They see it as an injustice.

[Red]

I understand what all of you guys are saying but at the end of it,i fear that it will and indeed has become a clash of civilization wheter we like it or not.

[benibo, right?]


Saying it's a clash of civilisations is rubish, people said that about the French and Germans or in Britian about the Catholics in the 17th century. It has not become a clash of civilisations while there still are muslims that can happily live in the west and follow islam. Those who are unhappy are those who are poor and have been made poor by the west, they are the worlds losers through no fault of their own. They see it as an injustice.
Well time will tell who is right or wrong.

[Geezah]

I understand what all of you guys are saying but at the end of it,i fear that it will and indeed has become a clash of civilization wheter we like it or not.

[benibo, right?]


Saying it's a clash of civilisations is rubish, people said that about the French and Germans or in Britian about the Catholics in the 17th century. It has not become a clash of civilisations while there still are muslims that can happily live in the west and follow islam. Those who are unhappy are those who are poor and have been made poor by the west, they are the worlds losers through no fault of their own. They see it as an injustice.

So what you're saying is these Muslim extremists are poor financially? see........that strikes me as weird.......so where does all the funding come from for these extremists?
Captain Hook's a diferent matter the British Government is funding that A-hole which is a shame!

[martinexsquaddie]

Combat 18 please don't make me laugh bunch of fat slobs in DPms
would'nt want to meet them after pub closeing time :(
but the only organised terror threat they pose is to the nearest pie shop :(
if special branch Mi5 and searchlight stopped paying there members annual subs that would be the end of them :roll:
even the uvf sent a black gunman to **** them off UVF are not racists they just want to kill catholics :( plus loyalists tend to have a big problem with people who thought hitler was a good egg :(

[usa320]

It wont come to a clash of civilizations, but a clash to defend civilization. Not christian and jew versus muslim. It will come to the civilized world versus the terrorists, let tehy be islamic extremists, narco-terrorists, extreme religious sects, cummunist groups or Nazi extremist groups.

[Geezah]

Combat 18 please don't make me laugh bunch of fat slobs in DPms
would'nt want to meet them after pub closeing time :(


Combat 18's hardline racism

http://news.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/320000/images/_323366_bnp_demo300.jpgCombat 18 was an off-shoot of the BNP

If the nail bomb in Brixton and the new attack in Brick Lane was sent by the far-right group Combat 18, it marks a significant escalation in the group's tactics.
The highly secretive organisation has attracted notoriety in the past - particularly after it claimed to have organised fighting at the England-Ireland football match at Lansdowne Road in 1995.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/320000/images/_323366_ndp-gmy-150.jpgCombat 18 is thought to have links with foreign neo-Nazi groups across Europe

Whether it did or not, the group's name, which is based on Adolf Hitler's initials - the first and eighth letters in the alphabet - raised its public profile.

In 1997, the underground group was back in the news after Danish police seized three letter bombs hidden in videocassettes and destined for London addresses. Combat 18 was believed to have been behind the operation.

Far-right rivals were targeted but celebrities including former swimmer Sharron Davies also found themselves on the hit-list.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/320000/images/_323366_sharron-150.jpgSwimmer Sharron Davies was targeted. Her husband is black

When left-wing actress Vanessa Redgrave received threats from a group believed to be Combat 18, Scotland Yard installed alarms and safety devices at her home.

Tottenham Hotspur owner Alan Sugar was also said to have been targeted, as were MPs Paddy Ashdown and Peter Hain, and journalists Anna Ford and Bernard Levin.

Last month British police carried out a series of raids on members of the neo-Nazi group, seizing computer disks, weapons and ammunition.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/320000/images/_323366_combat-logo-150.jpg
Combat 18's logo

In a separate incident also in March, two British soldiers were arrested on suspicion of having links with the group. It prompted the Armed Forces minister, Doug Henderson, to warn that servicemen with ties to racist organisations risked the being thrown out of the Forces and prosecution.


In 1997, three members were jailed at the Old Bailey for possessing racist publications, and later that year, Mark Atkinson was jailed for publishing its Stormer magazine.

Atkinson was caught with hundreds of copies of the 12-page magazine, described by Judge George Bathurst-Norman, as containing "vile out-pourings of hatred and incitement to violence".

One of the magazine's targets was Lynette Bruno, the elderly mother of boxer Frank Bruno.


Members of the group are believed to call the UK government "Zog", standing for "Zionist Occupation Government", and base their philosophy on hard-line racism and opposition to immigration.

It rejects the approach of some previous racist groups of persuading people to join its cause, preferring direct action instead. Membership has been estimated at between 40 and 200.

Charlie Sargent, a one-time leader of the group, who was sentenced to life imprisonment in 1998 for the murder of a fellow Combat 18 member, told Nick Ryan of the Independent on Sunday: "I don't vote. What's the point? I'm not gonna play their f****** silly little games _ Race not Nation - we're not British nationalists, we're racialists."

This is an attitude consistent with the group's slogan "White revolution is the only solution".

http://news.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/320000/images/_323366_bnp-soccer-150.jpgNeo-Nazis have been linked to football hooliganism

It is thought that the group, which was formed in 1992 from the security wing of the British National Party, controls a highly profitable music business, selling CDs and merchandising of far-right bands.


But Gerry Gable, publisher of the anti-fascist magazine Searchlight, was sceptical of any Combat 18 involvement in the Brixton bombing.

"If you look at what's happened to them recently, they've been so well infiltrated by the police, the army and anti-fascists like us, they couldn't sneeze without us knowing," said Mr Gable

But he did not rule out that the attack could have been racially motivated.

"If it's a racial attack, it could be someone who has been in Combat 18 has got increasingly frustrated with the lack of action and decided to do it themselves. The technology needed to make a bomb is so simple and easy to find," he said.

BBC (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/323366.stm)

Not quite a bunch of fat slobs but who knows?

[cut]

Geezah, Published Monday, April 19, 1999 at 17:50 GMT 18:50 UK

combat 18 are as good as extinct

[Geezah]

Geezah, Published Monday, April 19, 1999 at 17:50 GMT 18:50 UK

combat 18 are as good as extinct

Yeah right.......just like Football Hooligans? Combat 18 may be gone (as you say) but that doens't mean they won't morph into some other Nazi group!

[cut]

Geezah, Published Monday, April 19, 1999 at 17:50 GMT 18:50 UK

combat 18 are as good as extinct

Yeah right.......just like Football Hooligans? Combat 18 may be gone (as you say) but that doens't mean they won't morph into some other Nazi group!

nah anything like that would just go to the BNP

[ShadowNeo]

now you mention it, when 9/11 happened I remember seeing a Muslim woman in Palastine that was singing and dancing about what happened!

So you are saying, because this Palestinian woman - who would have an extremely different mentality towards The West/America, than the majority of Muslims living in The West - celebrated the 9/11 attrocities, all Muslims should be branded the same? :cantbeli: .

[Geezah]

now you mention it, when 9/11 happened I remember seeing a Muslim woman in Palastine that was singing and dancing about what happened!

So you are saying, because this Palestinian woman - who would have an extremely different mentality towards The West/America, than the majority of Muslims living in The West - celebrated the 9/11 attrocities, all Muslims should be branded the same? :cantbeli: .

Sorry....I just relayed one of the images that stuck in my head from that day plus the fighters taking off from Wright Patt Airforce base up the road.

I'm not saying we should brand them all the same but " I fully believe that Muslims have every right to protest but it would be nice if this was more evenly spread out rather than against people that are not from their chosen(or born into) faith?"

I think the thing we're missing here, is the fact that all Muslims seem to come together almost like an extended family(maybe)? Lets say you have two Muslims and a Christian in a room, no-one knows each other but the two Muslims have common ground. Now is it possible that a majority of clerics are pushing the idea it's us against the World?

There was something on the discovery channel about Afgan and there was a cleric preaching to woman saying that everyone is born a Muslim and it's the parents that keep us on that path?

[obd]

Cut wrote" I knew this bit was changed, so I checked,






In Slough England, Sheik Omar spent Thursday night preaching the erotc delights of the Martyr......sweet kisses and the pleasures of bathing with scores of women.....while also preaching the virtue of death in the Islamic struggle as a ticket to paradise.




In Slough, Sheik Omar spent much of his time Thursday night regaling his young followers with the erotic delights of paradise — sweet kisses and the pleasures of bathing with scores of women — while he also preached the virtues of death in Islamic struggle as a ticket to paradise.

CUT wrote:If you are going to copy it do so properly, there's a huge amount of difference between these two, if the author really meant that he was preaching about the delights of being a martyr then the article would have said that.

Cut Wrote: In a newspaper as in politics you mention two things close together and people think they are linked. Bush often refered to 9/11 and Iraq in close proximity despite there being no link.

Cut Wrote: Here the author has cleverly done the same thing, mention the "women in paradise" and then in the next line write about "death in Islamic struggle". And you fall right for it, just like the people who thought there was a link between 9/11 and Iraq.


Cut Wrote:The reason I know why this couldn't have been what he said was not because I condone him in anyway, I would never even think that, but because I was reading about the difficulties of extraditing someone on terrorist charges including, incitement of racial violence, and found out that these clerics have to watch their words very carefully they would never nowadays at least talk about matyrdom in public.[/quote]


OBD's RESPONSE TO CUTS BLINDNESS AND IDIOCY:

That is very funny Cut, you see the real problem is that these radical clerics ARE spreading RACIST and VIOLENT idioelogy and ARE NOT being stopped by immigration laws... EVEN THOSE who ARE in the process of being extridited are STILL spreading this filth and have been in the extridition process for YEARS!!!!!! If You actually attending these rallies which ARE BEING ATTENDED BY SECURITY PERSONEL then you will see for yourself Cut instead of trying ot turn a blind eye to the problem..... There REALLY IS NO DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE TWO AND WHAT I TYPED AND WHAT THE NYT SAID ACTUALLY CONVEY THE SAME MESSAGE!!!! ITS ONLY WHEN YOU TAKE THEM OUT OF CONTEXT THAT IT MATTERS BUT WHEN YOU TAKE INTO CONTEXT THE REST OF WHAT THAT RADICAL CLERIC WAS SAYING HE WAS CLEARLY SPEAKING OF THE MARTYR's PARADISE TO WHICH THOSE WHO DIE FIGHTING FOR THE FAITH GO. ITS THE HIGHEST LEVEL OF HEAVEN CUT.... HE COULD NOT HAVE BEEN TALKING ABOUT ANYTHING ELSE THEN MARTYRS PARADISE....... THE TWO THINGS HE SAID WERE IN THE VERY SAME SPEECH NOT 5 MINUTES APART SO CLEARLY ONLY AN IDIOT WOULD FAIL TO PUT THEM INTO CONTEXT BUT YOU KNOW WHAT CUT, YOU CAN CONTINUE TO TURN A BLIND EYE TO THE PROBLEM BUT THANKFULLY THERE ARE THOSE WHO REFUSE TO IGNORE IT. IT IS NOT WARMONGERING CUT, IT IS MERELY WHAT IS HAPPENING IN THE WORLD TODAY...........

[cut]

Cut wrote" I knew this bit was changed, so I checked,







In Slough England, Sheik Omar spent Thursday night preaching the erotc delights of the Martyr......sweet kisses and the pleasures of bathing with scores of women.....while also preaching the virtue of death in the Islamic struggle as a ticket to paradise.




In Slough, Sheik Omar spent much of his time Thursday night regaling his young followers with the erotic delights of paradise — sweet kisses and the pleasures of bathing with scores of women — while he also preached the virtues of death in Islamic struggle as a ticket to paradise.

CUT wrote:If you are going to copy it do so properly, there's a huge amount of difference between these two, if the author really meant that he was preaching about the delights of being a martyr then the article would have said that.

Cut Wrote: In a newspaper as in politics you mention two things close together and people think they are linked. Bush often refered to 9/11 and Iraq in close proximity despite there being no link.

Cut Wrote: Here the author has cleverly done the same thing, mention the "women in paradise" and then in the next line write about "death in Islamic struggle". And you fall right for it, just like the people who thought there was a link between 9/11 and Iraq.


Cut Wrote:The reason I know why this couldn't have been what he said was not because I condone him in anyway, I would never even think that, but because I was reading about the difficulties of extraditing someone on terrorist charges including, incitement of racial violence, and found out that these clerics have to watch their words very carefully they would never nowadays at least talk about matyrdom in public.


OBD's RESPONSE TO CUTS BLINDNESS AND IDIOCY:

That is very funny Cut, you see the real problem is that these radical clerics ARE spreading RACIST and VIOLENT idioelogy and ARE NOT being stopped by immigration laws... EVEN THOSE who ARE in the process of being extridited are STILL spreading this filth and have been in the extridition process for YEARS!!!!!! If You actually attending these rallies which ARE BEING ATTENDED BY SECURITY PERSONEL then you will see for yourself Cut instead of trying ot turn a blind eye to the problem..... There REALLY IS NO DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE TWO AND WHAT I TYPED AND WHAT THE NYT SAID ACTUALLY CONVEY THE SAME MESSAGE!!!! ITS ONLY WHEN YOU TAKE THEM OUT OF CONTEXT THAT IT MATTERS BUT WHEN YOU TAKE INTO CONTEXT THE REST OF WHAT THAT RADICAL CLERIC WAS SAYING HE WAS CLEARLY SPEAKING OF THE MARTYR's PARADISE TO WHICH THOSE WHO DIE FIGHTING FOR THE FAITH GO. ITS THE HIGHEST LEVEL OF HEAVEN CUT.... HE COULD NOT HAVE BEEN TALKING ABOUT ANYTHING ELSE THEN MARTYRS PARADISE....... THE TWO THINGS HE SAID WERE IN THE VERY SAME SPEECH NOT 5 MINUTES APART SO CLEARLY ONLY AN IDIOT WOULD FAIL TO PUT THEM INTO CONTEXT BUT YOU KNOW WHAT CUT, YOU CAN CONTINUE TO TURN A BLIND EYE TO THE PROBLEM BUT THANKFULLY THERE ARE THOSE WHO REFUSE TO IGNORE IT. IT IS NOT WARMONGERING CUT, IT IS MERELY WHAT IS HAPPENING IN THE WORLD TODAY...........

Here we go again, why do you always have to start flaming when you can't answer what I wrote properly. Isn't you that kept insisting you knew the situation in Iraq/military better then the BTDTs? You really need to calm down, re-read what I wrote and come up with a sensible answer.
In response to your drivel I will say this; I may know bollocks all about what is really going on in the muslim communities in my countries but if I don't you certainly don't.

[SerbPVO]

Allahu Akhbar!
Islam will rule the world!

Die infidels!

[obd]

Hmm Cut, Im starting to suspect that you cant read...... Why dont YOU try reading what I typed and respond to that.....I basically debunked everything you said..... I guess when you have no response you just resort to calling what I said "drivel"......oh well, I guess there is no point about arguing with someone who knows "bugger all" about the Muslum communies in England.......... I dont live there so Im forced to go upon what I read from people I trust who do go there and record what is going on, you know Cut: The time honored tradition of free press...................Oh yeah, and I cant forget to mention that I trust what British, American, German, French, Italian, and Spanish intelligence services make public about certain threats.......

[foxtrot023]

Allahu Akhbar!
Islam will rule the world!

Die infidels!
http://www.ebaumsworld.com/forumfun/whocares2.jpg

[foxtrot023]

Returning to the topic of the forum, it raises a serious question as to what exactly creates a islamic terrorist. When muslim folks that lived relative well off in Europe, America and Saudi Arabia (specially compared to the living status of the countries they came from in the ME) became terrorists or are in the radical imans sphere of influence, we must start asking ourselves why.

Often time, the solution to many of the issues affecting a population that ¨breeds¨ terrorists can be solved to a degree with prosperity, since after all, who would look to become a terrorist or a guerrilla if you are living well? (I think that would be ONE way to solve the issue with Palestinians)

However with the case of the saudies in 9/11, Bin Laden himself (a millionaire) and others, they break that rule since all came from middle class or well off families. Should we start seeing the problem as something else?

Perhaps the issue pursued by AQ and other terror groups is nothing short of a civilization war (as stated by themselves), looking to expand Islam pretty much the same way early islamic expansion (800 AD) tried to do, and if that is the case, how can we counter this?

Ultimately, we should look to the roots of islamic terrorism, and what drives people to become terrorists and human bombs. In the case of the london imans, they promise the terrorists that they will become martyrs, brainwashing them, and if that is the case perhaps we should start thinking of those imans as legitimate targets in the war against terrorism and go against them even if that will anger muslims extremists in the short and middle run. Terrorism won`t be eliminated by capturing or killing Bin Laden, since others might rise to take his place. We must dry the pool from were these creeps came from.

The question would be: what makes a terrorist tick?

Well, My personal opinion: Terrorism is a disease cured with a 5.56mm pill

[TOTEM]

AP NEWS
70 Said Killed in Thailand Gunbattles

BANGKOK, Thailand - Suspected Islamic militants clashed with police in Thailand Wednesday, leaving at least 70 people dead in the heaviest fighting yet in the troubled Muslim-dominated south, officials said.
The clashes erupted after militants launched simultaneous attacks on police bases and checkpoints in several districts of Yala and Pattani provinces, said Yala Gov. Boonyasit Suwanarat.
He told reporters that most of the dead were young men attempting to rob weapons from police and army bases. At least three policemen and one soldier were also killed.
It was the worst fighting so far in the south where almost daily attacks by gunmen have left nearly 150 people dead this year.
Most of the casualties appear to have happened in Yala province.
Pattani police chief Maj. Gen. Paitoon Pattanasophon told The Associated Press by telephone that clashes took place in at least five places in Pattani province. The fighting raged for more than three hours after the first shooting began at 5 a.m.
One gunbattle was fought around a mosque in Kruesei district of Pattani where the militants were holed up, he said.
Pattani, Yala and Narathiwat are the only Muslim majority provinces in predominantly Buddhist Thailand. Muslims there have long complained of discrimination in jobs and education.
They also say their culture and language are being subjugated by the Buddhist Thais, and cite as an example the state schools, which teach in Thai language. Muslims in the south speak Yawi, a dialect of Malay, spoken in the neighboring Malaysia.
The central government policies have been the source of a decades old separatist struggle, which subsided after an amnesty in the late 1980s, but exploded again this year with the Jan. 4 raid on an army arsenal and the torching of 21 schools. Four soldiers were killed in the arsenal attack.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


This "guys" are attacking averywere.
Not a single part of the world is safe.
Some big,bad things are going to happen if a lot of countries dont do something.
For start all the muslims should be kick out of UK!
What about the human rights????........**** THEM!!! what about the rights of the people who die or will die in the "hands" of this criminals!
Have you ever see a march for peace made by muslims????? Yes with AK's and explosives belts!

[martinexsquaddie]

relax 99.9% of muslims are not terrorists or terrorist supporters
unfortunatly the 0.01% are right up there with timothy mcveigh we going to kick all OP granby vets out of the country (if so I fancy new zealand :lol: )

[cut]

Hmm Cut, Im starting to suspect that you cant read...... Why dont YOU try reading what I typed and respond to that.....I basically debunked everything you said..... I guess when you have no response you just resort to calling what I said "drivel"......oh well, I guess there is no point about arguing with someone who knows "bugger all" about the Muslum communies in England.......... I dont live there so Im forced to go upon what I read from people I trust who do go there and record what is going on, you know Cut: The time honored tradition of free press...................Oh yeah, and I cant forget to mention that I trust what British, American, German, French, Italian, and Spanish intelligence services make public about certain threats.......

I read the same free press, I have many more friends to talk to about whats going on in my country by virtue of the fact that I'm English, if you have access to international intelligence, then the world is more ****ed up than I thought, if by intelligence you mean "intelligence" in the free (to write anything) press then fine. You really should believe everything you read in the papers, or are told by the likes of fox news.

[Geezah]

I have many more friends to talk to about whats going on in my country by virtue of the fact that I'm English,

I'm sorry but this doesn't tell me a thing, so you talk to like minded people and you all believe the same thing in Kent!
Now if you were on the frontline close to the Asian communities, then I would say you have a good hands on feel for things!

[cut]

I have many more friends to talk to about whats going on in my country by virtue of the fact that I'm English,

I'm sorry but this doesn't tell me a thing, so you talk to like minded people and you all believe the same thing in Kent!
Now if you were on the frontline close to the Asian communities, then I would say you have a good hands on feel for things!

don't make to many assumptions about my location, I've been living in kent for two years and only during term time, the last time I was in London was a whole 2 days ago!

[Geezah]

I have many more friends to talk to about whats going on in my country by virtue of the fact that I'm English,

I'm sorry but this doesn't tell me a thing, so you talk to like minded people and you all believe the same thing in Kent!
Now if you were on the frontline close to the Asian communities, then I would say you have a good hands on feel for things!

don't make to many assumptions about my location, I've been living in kent for two years and only during term time, the last time I was in London was a whole 2 days ago!

So those "WHOLE" two days ago, I take it you paid a visit to Hounslow and Southhall? And seeing as you're at Uni I'm sure you get to see all apsects of life?

[gilgoul]

nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

not the telegraph :P

The amount of times I've had to point out the bull**** that's in there

I don`t know for the BS of the telegraph, but I know for Mike`s place, since it s my favorite bar, That i live 20 meters from it, and my flatmate was there just before the explosion.
The boom shaked my room, and the sirens stoped downstairs, wich is usually not a good sign.
As for the two bombers, they were british nationals, and among their victims was a French girl who lived in Israel.
It is a shame and disgrace that thoses Mother fuc..s were carying "her majesty`s " passport.
Instaed of denying what bothers you, you should take a look and think about it.

[California Joe]

If martyrs for the cause get to hang out in paradise naked with chicks in a bath, what do women who go to paradise get? The chance to hang out with some shaved body horndawg martyr? Strange how a religion promises pussy in the afterlife like it's the Playboy mansion.

[gaz]

what do women who go to paradise get?

They get to go and watch Evan and Russian American all greased up (But not in pig fat) in loin cloths and Greco Roman wrestling, 'cause you know, chicks dig guys like them.

[Geezah]

If martyrs for the cause get to hang out in paradise naked with chicks in a bath, what do women who go to paradise get? The chance to hang out with some shaved body horndawg martyr? Strange how a religion promises pussy in the afterlife like it's the Playboy mansion.

Now paradise for me is not being married having to mow the lawn every week and getting to go to the range when ever I want! :D