Chirac: I will not run again

[Zarathustra]

CNN (http://edition.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/europe/03/11/france.chirac.reut/index.html)

http://i.a.cnn.net/cnn/2007/WORLD/europe/03/11/france.chirac.reut/long.chirac.afp.gi.jpg
French President Jacques Chirac said Sunday he will not run again for the office.


Chirac: I will not run again

• Chirac urges nation to reject "extremism, racism, anti-Semitism...rejection"
• Far-right leader Jean-Marie Le Pen calls Chirac departure "a great joy"
• Chirac says he would have liked to have modernized France more rapidly
• Nicolas Sarkozy, Segolene Royal, Francois Bayrou lead contenders for president

PARIS, France (*******) -- French President Jacques Chirac announced on Sunday he would not seek re-election next month, bowing out of frontline politics after a 45-year career that consisted of symbolic gestures as much as concrete policies.
Chirac has served as president since 1995. His decision to stand aside marks the end of an era for France, clearing the way for a new generation of politicians.
"I will not seek your backing for a new mandate," the 74-year-old said in a televised address to the nation.
Chirac will perhaps be best remembered outside France for his denunciation of U.S. policy in Iraq and his determination to maintain his country's leading role in international affairs.
But on the domestic front he introduced few meaningful reforms and leaves behind a difficult legacy for his successor, with the French economy underachieving and social tensions simmering in deprived suburbs.
His natural heir in the conservative camp, presidential frontrunner Nicolas Sarkozy, said on Sunday he hoped to receive Chirac's endorsement.
But he also delivered a stern rebuke to his one-time mentor by promising a new approach to politics.
"I will not prevaricate with the French, I will not lie to them, I will not betray them," Sarkozy said in an interview published in Le Journal du Dimanche newspaper.
All the three leading contenders to succeed Chirac -- Sarkozy of the ruling UMP party, Socialist Segolene Royal and centrist Francois Bayrou -- are in their 50s and all have pledged to break with the politics of the past 25 years.
"I want to be the candidate who says very clearly to the French what he will do if they give him their trust," said Sarkozy. "That is my speciality. I am therefore different from Jacques Chirac."
Sarkozy is leading in the polls ahead of the April-May election, but he faces a tight race against Royal and Bayrou.
Opinion polls have indicated for months that Chirac would have been trounced if he had run for a record third mandate, but he had kept a resolute silence over his plans to avoid being regarded as a lame duck president.

Out of touch

The last survivor of a political generation that started out in the postwar governments of General Charles de Gaulle, Chirac's career was dogged by allegations of corruption, which he always denied, dating from his 18 years as mayor of Paris.
During his reign, he ended compulsory military service, played an important role in ending the Yugoslav civil war in the 1990s and was the first president to acknowledge that France's World War Two Vichy regime had assisted in the Holocaust.
He also played an important role in ending the civil war in Yugoslavia in the 1990s. He won widespread popularity in the Arab world for standing up to President Bush over the invasion of Iraq in 2003. The move infuriated Washington by representing what former U.S. Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld called "Old Europe."
However, Chirac was regarded as increasingly out of touch on domestic issues and suffered a major defeat when voters rejected the planned European constitution in 2005, pushing the European Union into crisis and weakening his international standing.
And his attempts at reforming the French economy and tackling chronic unemployment met with little success.
"Overall ... it's seen as a very weak presidency, especially in the second term," said Daniela Schwarzer, an expert on France at the German Institute for International and Security Affairs.
At one point, Chirac had the worst popularity ratings of any French president, but his support has climbed as his retirement nears.
In Europe itself, he held tightly to the traditional Franco-German alliance, particularly with former German Chancellor Gerhard Schroeder, and refused to surrender the lavish subsidies enjoyed by the French farming sector.
His mandate ends on May 17 and it is not clear if he will still play a role in public life after that, or whether he will withdraw quietly to his rural retreat in Correze with his wife Bernadette.
"There is, without doubt, a life after politics. Until death," he said in a television interview last month.

[Benhurmarcel]

This is sad, I will regret Chirac.

Let's hope that Bayrou will be the next président now.

[Atlantic Friend]

Gardarem lou Bayrou !

[Smashed!]

Gardarem lou Bayrou !
Allons donc malheureux!

Don't fall for that again. France with the project of Bayrou will end up like Italy and Belgium.

[mas-36]

Certainly the end of an era. While I'm not French, I have paid some attention to the ongoing presidential race in France. I can't say I like Sarkozy or Royale at this point, and I don't even know who this Bayrou fellow is.

I did like D. deVillepin though, but he's not even in the race. It will be interesting to see what kind of foreign policy France takes with a new president, vis-a-vis A-stan especially.

[Benhurmarcel]

Allons donc malheureux!

Don't fall for that again. France with the project of Bayrou will end up like Italy and Belgium.

Mais bien sur :roll:

This is that the ump and the ps would like you to believe but if Bayrou become président a new parti (sorry don't know the word in english) will be create and it will be easier to govern.

[Smashed!]

Mais bien sur :roll:

This is that the ump and the ps would like you to believe but if Bayrou become président a new partie (sorry don't know the word in english) will be create and it will be easier to govern.

Actually our good friend bayrou wants the elections to be held "a la proportionelle", wich will sever the already fragile balance that the majoritary voting allows now.

Note: I'm hateful of both institutionnal parties in France.

Ami:hug:?

[Benhurmarcel]

Certainly the end of an era. While I'm not French, I have paid some attention to the ongoing presidential race in France. I can't say I like Sarkozy or Royale at this point, and I don't even know who this Bayrou fellow is.

I did like D. deVillepin though, but he's not even in the race. It will be interesting to see what kind of foreign policy France takes with a new president, vis-a-vis A-stan especially.


Sarko is pro american and well Ségo we don't know she speaks a lot but don't tell much interesting things. :D

[Benhurmarcel]

Actually our good friend bayrou wants the elections to be held "a la proportionelle", wich will sever the already fragile balance that the majoritary voting allows now.

Note: I'm hateful of both institutionnal parties in France.

Ami:hug:?

Yes but it's possible and I am confident for the futur.

Sinon pas de soucis. :D :hug:

[AROUETLJ]

Sarko is pro american and well Ségo we don't know she speaks a lot but don't tell much interesting things. :D

Pro-American only when it comes to economic policy i.e. "economic patriotism" for EU products.

[Zarathustra]

This is sad, I will regret Chirac.

You're amongst the 1% french who will actually miss him. Not better elsewhere in the world, not even in the arab world where he is considered an asslicker and an hypocrit for his "special relationship" with the elites there.

I'm gonna go with Le Pen's comment, worst French president ever, Petain having been a Germany Nazi puppet, doesn't count.

[Smashed!]

You're amongst the 1% french who will actually miss him. Not better elsewhere in the world, not even in the arab world where he is considered an asslicker and an hypocrit for his "special relationship" with the elites there.

I'm gonna go with Le Pen's comment, worst French president ever, Petain having been a Germany Nazi puppet, doesn't count.

You obviously don't have a clue...and I'm sorry for you.

[Zarathustra]

You obviously don't have a clue...and I'm sorry for you.

Care to elaborate new member ?

[theholeinthedonut]

You're amongst the 1% french who will actually miss him. Not better elsewhere in the world, not even in the arab world where he is considered an asslicker and an hypocrit for his "special relationship" with the elites there.

I'm gonna go with Le Pen's comment, worst French president ever, Petain having been a Germany Nazi puppet, doesn't count.

Quoted for truth! And I have a clue.....

Chirac and Schroeder were nearly as bad for europe (and the rest of the world) as were Adolf and le Maréchal........

[Benhurmarcel]

You're amongst the 1% french who will actually miss him. Not better elsewhere in the world, not even in the arab world where he is considered an asslicker and an hypocrit for his "special relationship" with the elites there.

I'm gonna go with Le Pen's comment, worst French president ever, Petain having been a Germany Nazi puppet, doesn't count.


Thanks for that, that was fun rofl

He loves Africa and the arab culure, this is not what I am calling an asslicker, and the arab people have generally a good opinion of the France because of him but obviously you don't know a lot about the trips of président Chirac in this partie of the world.

Concerning what the néo nazi said, this is so stupid that I don't want to comment on that.

PS : sorry for my very bad english.

[Sharp]

If Le Pen cannot present himself, then a majorizy of peoples will vote for Bayrou.
There also have a majority of peoples wich now want to vote Bayrou, after thinking voting for UMP or PS.

So in the end, this will maybe turn into a Sarkozy vs Bayrou (UMP vs UDF).

Sans oublier ceux qui pensaient voter Sego (avec hesitation) et qui voteront Bayrou (après tout, Bayrou c'est un peu Sego, les defauts en moins , ie un speech sans projet ..)

[Benhurmarcel]

If Le Pen cannot present himself, then a majorizy of peoples will vote for Bayrou.
There also have a majority of peoples wich now want to vote Bayrou, after thinking voting for UMP or PS.

So in the end, this will maybe turn into a Sarkozy vs Bayrou (UMP vs UDF).

Sans oublier ceux qui pensaient voter Sego (avec hesitation) et qui voteront Bayrou (après tout, Bayrou c'est un peu Sego, les defauts en moins , ie un speech sans projet ..)

Sarko will do anything he can to have lepen in the presidentials so I think the néo nazi will be there, but this year I hope i will not go past 15 %.

[Atlantic Friend]

If Le Pen cannot present himself, then a majorizy of peoples will vote for Bayrou.
There also have a majority of peoples wich now want to vote Bayrou, after thinking voting for UMP or PS.

So in the end, this will maybe turn into a Sarkozy vs Bayrou (UMP vs UDF).

Sans oublier ceux qui pensaient voter Sego (avec hesitation) et qui voteront Bayrou (après tout, Bayrou c'est un peu Sego, les defauts en moins , ie un speech sans projet ..)

If it's Sarkozy vs Bayrou, then I guess the Béarnais can already tell the Elysée staff what he'd like to eat for breakfast. He will appeal both to dismayed Socialists and to a large part of the Conservative Right who does not feel comfortable with Sarkozy.

My gut call is basically that if Bayrou gets to the 2nd turn, Bayrou wins.

[Sharp]

Sarko will do anything he can to have lepen in the presidentials so I think the néo nazi will be there, but this year I hope i will not go past 15 %.

Yes i think we can't be sure of the Le Pen score, it will be all or nothing.
Bad point for him is the come of Sarkozy, because if he didn't have much to worry about Chirac in 2002, its another story now with Sarkozy, trading on his path about immigration and foreigners in France.

So i think results will be pretty surprising.

[Zarathustra]

If it's Sarkozy vs Bayrou, then I guess the Béarnais can already tell the Elysée staff what he'd like to eat for breakfast. He will appeal both to dismayed Socialists and to a large part of the Conservative Right who does not feel comfortable with Sarkozy.

My gut call is basically that if Bayrou gets to the 2nd turn, Bayrou wins.

Indeed. That's pretty much what happened to Chirac in 1995, although the context was different. There was Balladur on the right-wing, and Chirac as an outsider. Chirac won.

So now, Bayrou has quite a chance to be on the second round, unless he crash just before the election like Chevenement in 2002, for those who can remember.

Basically, the key will be the Le Pen's vote, again.

[Muang]

Bayrou Président !

[Sharp]

Bayrou Président !

=> au cachot!

Bayrou fera une presentation sur Nice Jeudi prochain.. j'irai peut-être ..

[Martel]

Sharp, ton avatar me fait baver !!

[Nansouty]

Well, I must say it looks like Bayrou is indeed having a chance. A lot of teachers, who usually voted for teh Socialist Party, are about to vote for him. The more he gains, the more he will attract people, as for quite a few French, it's "Tout sauf Sarko" (Anything but Sarko). At the same time, Sarko seems to be blowing his chances with some silly comments regarding immigration. His help for le Pen's candidature is, IMO, likely to backfire as I suspect a part of his voting base will prefer to vote for Le Pen after all (polls are not always sincere... Le Pen's voters tend not to give sincere answers, and election results may sometimes bequite unexpected, ask Jospin!). So we have a small chance of having Bayroux against Ségo for the 2nd round... this would change nothing as Bayroux would still be elected, but not by the same people.

[Atlantic Friend]

Lou Bayrou à l'Elysée ! Power to the people ! Power to the Bearnese !

[roland]

My gut call is basically that if Bayrou gets to the 2nd turn, Bayrou wins.

I agree with that.
That would be a disaster: assumed coabitation from the start and a good excuse not to do anything.
Royale or Bayrou, like those 30 last years, that's the state workers trade unions that are going to decide the policy .. before the bankrupcy.
After it will be the IMF.

[Nansouty]

I agree with that.
That would be a disaster: assumed coabitation from the start and a good excuse not to do anything.
Royale or Bayrou, like those 30 last years, that's the state workers trade unions that are going to decide the policy .. before the bankrupcy.
After it will be the IMF.

Better any of them than Sarko... his tax cuts would bring the bankrupcy so much faster.....

[Atlantic Friend]

I agree with that.
That would be a disaster: assumed coabitation from the start and a good excuse not to do anything.
Royale or Bayrou, like those 30 last years, that's the state workers trade unions that are going to decide the policy .. before the bankrupcy.
After it will be the IMF.

Could be a return to the Christian Democrat/Conservative coalition that was in power before the 1980s, though.

[AROUETLJ]

From the various comments that I've been hearing in France, people who intend to vote for Bayrou aren't actually voting for him or his programme, assuming he has any, but voting against the system. He's the only major candidate, apart from Sarko, not to have been through the ENA, and unlike Sarko, he doesn't make grand speeches, so that's one factor which puts him apart. But I'm not sure about him winning if it comes to Sarko vs Bayrou in the 2nd round, since far right votes will probably go to Sarko. As far as I'm concerned, I hope Le Pen doesn't win, cos I'd be kicked out of the country. I'm a foreigner after all.:)

[Ordie]

Regardless who wins, the person must make fundamental changes to reduce the size of the government and lift onerous restrictions to business development and employment.

The French are control freaks. Especially when it come to religion. Thier policy of "freedom from religion" is time consuming and counterproductive. Moreover some measures of affirmative action is needed to mitigate discontent among French people of color.

A good start is to dump the whole employment system. It needs to go to a merit based system. Give the French the freedom to fail instead of protecting them.

See below:



The French system divides the nation into two classes: those with jobs and those without. Those with jobs have security, short working hours and long vacations. The jobless -- one in eight -- get the dole and few prospects. And it is the younger French who pay the highest price. Among people under 25, the unemployment rate jumps to 22% -- one in four young people who leave school can't find work.

This reporter spoke with soft-spoken Mustafa Kesabe, 25, standing in line at the unemployment office in Paris's 13th arrondissement. The delivery company he worked for went bust two years ago, and he's been unemployed ever since -- 15 job interviews with no offers. That he is of North African descent is certainly a handicap in France, but his greater problem is that, at sky-high French wage rates, no one will hire an inexperienced, poorly educated youth. Nor was there a shortage of well- dressed white skins in that unemployment line.

It's not that wages are especially high in France. A French factory worker will clear about $17,500 a year. It's the employment taxes that make French labor among the most expensive in the world. The charges are so convoluted it's hard to make direct comparisons, but social taxes cost the employer at least 50% on top of an employee's basic salary. In the U.S. taxes like Social Security and disability cost the employer 7.65% on the first $68,400 and 1.45% thereafter. In Britain the maximum an employer pays is 10%.

Earlier this year newspapers reported that French pastrymakers and hairdressers were registering their businesses in Wales to avoid paying the punitive social taxes and complying with rigid labor laws.

In a way, the labor laws are worse than the taxes. Miriam Haddou, a top-rate hairdresser with 20 years' experience, says she is in danger of losing her year-old salon because she hung out her shingle before completing the official two-year diploma. Haddou was already complying with "noncompete" regulations by opening up more than two kilometers from her last employer. Even a full-time cleaning lady in a school building must first take a national civil service exam before she can push her mop. Employers are routinely raided by "inspectors of work" -- demanding detailed explanations for something as simple as a bonus -- and the paperwork to cut a simple salary check is so burdensome even the smallest companies are saddled with the weekly services of specialized accountants.

France's bizarre answer to unemployment has been to gradually reduce the workweek to 35 hours. Labor inspectors now conduct raids on multinationals like Thomson-CSF and Alcatel to make sure that top executives don't work more than 38 hours without getting overtime pay and extra vacation. Of course, hard-working French executives mostly ignore the law, but the idea has a way of catching on. One entrepreneur tells FORBES his sales manager -- ranked 6th in hierarchy at the 140-man company -- has written the state and the company that he will work only the required 38 hours a week.

In the U.S. today it is generally accepted that when a longtime employee is made redundant, he or she is entitled to compensation in some proportion to his length of service. What's fair is fair.

But in France employees' rights go to ridiculous extremes. An employer must keep a job open for three years for an employee who goes on maternity leave. Even the lowest-level jobs are tied up in complicated contracts, and pity the employer who fails to provide them: The courts will rule that after just two paychecks the employee was hired indefinitely and it will cost the company from 3 to 12 months' pay to get rid of him. And employers are pressured by collective agreements to reward clerical staff, say, by seniority rather than merit, while raises must first be discussed at a workers' council. Fail to do so and an employer could wind up in court.



http://members.forbes.com/forbes/1998/1130/6212084a.html

[roland]

Better any of them than Sarko... his tax cuts would bring the bankrupcy so much faster.....

the problem isn't that there isn't enough taxes :roll:
it's that there is too much unproductive spending.



Could be a return to the Christian Democrat/Conservative coalition that was in power before the 1980s, though.


it's called the UMP.

[roland]

Especially when it come to religion. Thier policy of "freedom from religion" is time consuming and counterproductive. Moreover some measures of affirmative action is needed to mitigate discontent among French people of color.


religion ?? affirmative action ?? LOL if you were French I would hang you with pleasure.

You definitly got all wrong: strict secularism and equality are some of the few thing good that remain of the time France was a Republic.
There is not such thing like "French of color". There is French and non French period. We don't care the color. It's scientifically proven enough that color is irrelevant. Humans aren't horses or dogs. Race is for Indianapolis keep it out of politic or economy.
Our basis are good but it need to be reengineered from those specs to have a more efficient state and be a more business friendly country. Companies don't earn enough money doing business in France. They make more money doing business on foreign countries so there only choice is to leave or go bankrupt. That is disastrous specially for the industry that requires more know how and provide more wealth than any other business.

[Ordie]

If the French system is so great, why is it so many are moving to the UK, and US to work? Especially in Silicon Valley, New York and London?

The cafe down the street where I live is owned by a former French bureaucrat who got fed up an left 10 years ago. He now employs dozens of new French arrivals who are in the process of getting a high tech start-up together. I asked why they are not in France doing the same, they all rolled thier eyes and said France sucks for business. No venture capital, no risk takers.

French or non-French? Try getting a job if you are a second generation Frenchperson with a last name of Mohammed on your job application. Nine times out of ten they are going to pick a person with a more European sounding last name.

Equality? Try to promote that concept in the Paris suburbs.

Spend less time controlling on what people should wear or not to wear and start focusing on lifting the employment restrictions and barriers to business.

[AROUETLJ]

It can't be all that bad. France is the country with the highest foreign investment in the world, together with China.


As for the "religion" bit, I come from a country whose constitution states that Roman Catholicism is the official religion, and I think that France got it right. And to think that it was way back in 1905.

[roland]

If the French system is so great, why is it so many are moving to the UK, and US to work? Especially in Silicon Valley, New York and London?


business.
I already said that the French system sucks for business. We agree here.



French or non-French? Try getting a job if you are a second generation Frenchperson with a last name of Mohammed on your job application. Nine times out of ten they are going to pick a person with a more European sounding last name.

Equality? Try to promote that concept in the Paris suburbs.


it's not because of the color or religion, it's because there is an abnormal proportion of racailles coming out of the suburbs (partly because of the failure of socialist infested school system, partly because of the damage of "hippie time" on education) so, in time of unemployment you statistically have more chance to hire a wanker if he comes from the suburbs than if you hire one coming from good neighborhood. To make it worse it's difficult to fire a bad employee so you're less likely to give one his chance. Add to that that a lot of job are confiscated by "mafias" like taxi drivers where the number is limited and the license hugely expensive.
Immigrant sons that worked well at school and chose good studies for example in the industry instead of sociology do find work and I know what I'm talking about.
Even those who don't have diplomas can find job in some work where they lack manpower: restaurants, buildings for example. But you have to work hard and be courageous, something they werent' taught at school.
To finish, like any other french they suffer from the fact that here it's a pain to make a business when there is always a moron from the state or the social system to piss you off.
All in all, nothing to do with color.
Anyway: Declaration of the Rights of Man and of the Citizen (http://www.hrcr.org/docs/frenchdec.html)

Articles:
1. Men are born and remain free and equal in rights. Social distinctions may be founded only upon the general good.
...

6. Law is the expression of the general will. Every citizen has a right to participate personally, or through his representative, in its foundation. It must be the same for all, whether it protects or punishes. All citizens, being equal in the eyes of the law, are equally eligible to all dignities and to all public positions and occupations, according to their abilities, and without distinction except that of their virtues and talents.

so fvck off with your racist bullsh:t.

[roland]

It can't be all that bad. France is the country with the highest foreign investment in the world, together with China.


we have to see what are those investment. France is still a big market and is well situated. Commercial investment from foreign companies provide little added value. Industry or research and development do but there is very little foreign investment there except on some specific area where our expertise cannot be found elsewhere.

And when a foreign company buy a French company, take all the know how and close the company, that's considered like investment .....

that being said, I agree, all is not that bad, we have a lot of asset. We just have to stop loading the mule but instead unload it a bit and all will go better and faster than most think because there is a lot of good energy here, notably in the suburbs btw ..
imho

[gd168f]

Commercial investment from foreign companies provide little added value. Industry or research and development do but there is very little foreign investment there except on some specific area where our expertise cannot be found elsewhere.

i may be wrong but here is what I was thinking (while reading this thread):
apart Airport, cars and luxury goods, I can not find a French-conceived product that is popular worldwide. For me, that's really a paradox, because French are so good in Arts. They renowned in fashion but they don't make the trend worldwide. IMO - and if I was a French- I would say that's the problem to solve. if it was not the US, the French should have made the iPhone.

From my point of view, I can also feel this problem in France's foreign policy which has been (IMO) too much conservative: if your country is not an European country, not a former colony, is not Lebanon, is not China, then you would not hear of France. Thus you would not be influenced by French culture, and why would you buy French designs which are not enough adapted to local specific needs? In Taiwan for example, nobody ever heard of Le Coq Sportif, but everyone knows Puma even though Puma almost went down years ago. Of course, French companies are more aggressive in recent years (Renault through Nissan, LV, etc,...) but IMO not enough generalized. Chirac's retirement will maybe the symbol of a change in mind in France.

[Ordie]

French foreign policy is pre-occupied in maintaining the status quo of Franco-phone nations. They subsidize French speaking African nations and create a further culture dependency in Africa. The recent interest of the US into Africa concerns France and its hegemony on the continent.

French companies do well outside of France. Mostly through mergers of other companies such as L'Oreal buying the "Body Shop". And Michelin tires buying BF Goodrich. Moreover CFM Jet engines are common on Boeings 737 aircraft. But its nowhere the near the volume of that of the UK or Germany for that matter.

Even the production, quality and export of wine is being superceded by California, Chile and Argentina. However, Remy Martin has done well in China.

They should do more in high tech, but most of the French talent is in Silicon Valley.

Roland, my apoligies if my comments offended you. I think the French Declaration of Rights and Man are ideal. So is the Constitution of the US. But sometimes reality differs from that ideal.

What I was trying to find out is how the French legal system is able to determine if there is a pattern ethnic discrimination from a prospective employer. If there is no official recognition of race, ethnic background or religion.

I'm just asking the question. not flame.

pardon moi... (Excuse my French)

[Sharp]

apart Airport, cars and luxury goods, I can not find a French-conceived product that is popular worldwide.

hmm, i didn't know french cars were "popular worldwide"
wich one are known and where ? (USA?)

thanks for the answer

[Atlantic Friend]

it's called the UMP.

Er, you'd be taxed to find Christian Democracy in the UMP these days.

[gd168f]

hmm, i didn't know french cars were "popular worldwide"
wich one are known and where ? (USA?)

thanks for the answer

yes maybe I was a bit too optimistic, but it was because I don't mean /don't want to criticize French products too harshly. (it is so easy to criticize others)

[Atlantic Friend]

If the French system is so great, why is it so many are moving to the UK, and US to work? Especially in Silicon Valley, New York and London?

Because these people see better opportunities there - just like the American and British expats who come to France, Asia or other countries. It does not exactly reflect upon the soundness of the system.


The cafe down the street where I live is owned by a former French bureaucrat who got fed up an left 10 years ago. He now employs dozens of new French arrivals who are in the process of getting a high tech start-up together. I asked why they are not in France doing the same, they all rolled thier eyes and said France sucks for business. No venture capital, no risk takers.

I like the "no risk takers" part, when it comes from people who basically it was too risky (or not enough profitable, which amounts to the same thing) for them to open their business in France !

But yes, French laws could and should be more business-friendly. Just as any other country's laws could and should be more this and less that. Laws are meant to change through political action, it's not as if there was some genetical predisposition.


Spend less time controlling on what people should wear or not to wear and start focusing on lifting the employment restrictions and barriers to business.

I don't see why both things could not be done at the same time. Banning religious signs in PUBLIC schools and offices seems pretty sound to me. It does not infringe on anyone's religious belief and freedom to live according to such beliefs. I am a Christian, which is a thing between me, my conscience and the God I've chosen to believe in, and I don't need a battalion of lawyers and a few dozen lawsuits about what I should be able to wear or do to feel Christian. My duties as a citizen of my country must come first, for it is through my country that my freedom of religion is protected.

[Ordie]

I agree with you on the religion part but from a different angle.

I believe in freedom of religion with the separation of church and state. But I take a Libertarian view that anyone should wear whatever they want and that government should keep out of personal life and religious preferences.

[Sharp]

Because these people see better opportunities there - just like the American and British expats who come to France, Asia or other countries. It does not exactly reflect upon the soundness of the system.

i remember an expatriate who said at the tv that, in US or somewhere in Europe, it's more based on "what you can do" than "what you have done" and i think it's very true today in what happen in our society.

By example if your gonna out the school system to find a work, then peoples will ask you for experience (but how the hell do you want to get experience if no one want to let you a job?) and so on.

et je suis la preuve vivante de ce systeme totalement biasé . J'occupe une place auquel mon employeur a toujours recherché et n'envisage pas de chercher des personnes qui ont moins de BAC+2, pour une place ne demanderait même pas le BAC.
Je n'ai pas de BAC+2, mais ca ne m'empeche pas d'etre aussi bon voir meilleur que quelqu'un qui l'aurait.

[roland]

Er, you'd be taxed to find Christian Democracy in the UMP these days.

well I shouldn't have commented on this since I don't know what is "Christian Democracy".
Is it like Radicalism ?
if yes, I by far prefer the term Radicalism since I'm sorry but "Christan Democracy" look really dumb:
- Christian: first that is mixing religion and politic witch even believers should fight. Second: does that mean that it's not for atheists, Muslims, Jews or Buddists ? what's this a party only for christians ?
- Democracy: a system just good enough so you can't fight it with weapons. Republic is by far superior since Republic is based on human Rights and not just majority like Democracy is.
But I'm affraid I'm going too philisophic here.

@Ordie: you don't have to apoligize. Me I apoligize since I was a little rude. But that's a subject that make my blood boil: positive discrimination is still discrimination and is contrary to all our traditions. Nothing personal I hope.



i may be wrong but here is what I was thinking (while reading this thread):
apart Airport, cars and luxury goods, I can not find a French-conceived product that is popular worldwide. For me, that's really a paradox, because French are so good in Arts. They renowned in fashion but they don't make the trend worldwide. IMO - and if I was a French- I would say that's the problem to solve. if it was not the US, the French should have made the iPhone.


You're right and wrong.
Right because it's true we can do better and because there is a long time we didn't built world champions. For example even Gemplus, the inventor of the smart card couldn't grow fast enough and get powerfull enough to impose it's standard as a world standard and earn a undisputed world number one position. Now it had been bought by an American company iirc.

But you're wrong since you underestimate French economic power like most of anglo or anglo influenced world. Ironically, a good way to have an idea of French companies is to watch at the list of the brainwashed American morons who boycotted french products:
http://www.boycottwatch.org/misc/france-04.htm :D
(I know one or two that aren't on the list but I'm not going to denounce the lucky one who escapped the boycott though this boycott wasn't much successfull contrary to what the retarded liar O'Reilly says)

Any way I don't care if we are underestimated, even I think it's good. I'm all for low profile and act discreetly as long as underestimation isn't accompagned with insults and blatant lies like the defunct American campaign to dishonor France because of Iraq was.

But what's true imho is that we are at crossing path and we can't afford to continue this way.
Big French international groups are wondering why they should stay French when most of there cash flow comes from foreign country and when socialist idiots consider it's bad they make big profits and are looking for a way to steal those profits.
Little companies, specially industrial ones, are exhausted, weren't able to invest in R & D for years and can't take risk since any failur would be fatal for them. You can take risk only if you can afford to lose that mean have a lot of money available. But all the money available is stolled by the state and social system to fund parasits.
That is collective suicide and it must stop before it's too late.
my opinion.

[Atlantic Friend]

well I shouldn't have commented on this since I don't know what is "Christian Democracy".
Is it like Radicalism ?
if yes, I by far prefer the term Radicalism since I'm sorry but "Christan Democracy" look really dumb:
- Christian: first that is mixing religion and politic witch even believers should fight. Second: does that mean that it's not for atheists, Muslims, Jews or Buddists ? what's this a party only for christians ?
- Democracy: a system just good enough so you can't fight it with weapons. Republic is by far superior since Republic is based on human Rights and not just majority like Democracy is.
But I'm affraid I'm going too philisophic here.

I think you'll find that historically Christian Democracy is the core of the center-right movement which, in France, has always been a key factor to put the Right in power. It was by and large funded in the 1910s-1920s by political movements such as "Le Sillon", and has found its modern expression in political federations such as the UDF.

Radicalism represents a broader (if limited) movement, ranging fron center-Left to center-Right, and for this reason I don't think the two terms are interchangeable.

As for the "Christian" in "Christian Democracy", I had no idea it would trouble you so much, my dear Roland. If History is any guide, it seems Christian Democracy is not about having the Pope ruling the Republic, but more about adhering to a certain set of moral values.

[stonecutter]

Yes, business laws in France are too socialist, too restricting. Historically, the French have never been economic immigrants (like Italians, Poles, etc), which is unfortunately why there was no large French community present in the U.S. to help mitigate in American's minds the anti-French slander that became commonplace in that country in 2003. But now, I'm wondering if many of France's bright minds are leaving, for Silicon Valley for example (thus paradoxically helping reinforce Americans' views that the U.S. is the world leader in technology, and that other countries suck, etc etc etc...) heh heh

Hell, even our Marianne (Laetitia Casta), France's ultimate feminine symbol, defected and moved to the U.K. to avoid the French tax system! Damn...

http://www.laetitia-casta.net/castapedia/images/c/c5/LC_W_64.jpg

[Benhurmarcel]

Ahhh Laetitia Casta ou la plus belle femme du monde.

I think we just simply don't have the culture of business in France and we never will. We prefer earn less money but enjoy life more, what's wrong with that ?

Liberalism is as dangerous as the communism.

[Atlantic Friend]

Hell, even our Marianne (Laetitia Casta), France's ultimate feminine symbol, defected and moved to the U.K. to avoid the French tax system! Damn...

Which was pure greed on her part. Poor widdle Laetitia couldn't make enough money because of the eeevil tax system ? Please. Last time I checked she wasn't exactly hard-working middle class or a harrowed entrepreneur.

[Ordie]

Which begs a question.

How will the French ex-pat voter block will affect the outcome of the elections?

Will we see canidates go to London, New York or Silicon Valley seeking votes?

How about within the next ten years? For many young ex-pats, life happens overseas, marry a local person and settle down overseas. However, thier children will remain French citizens with an EU Passport.

I don't know the outcome but I'm sure its a factor down the line.

Are there seats in the French Parlament representing French Ex-pats?

[mas-36]

Which begs a question.

How will the French ex-pat voter block will affect the outcome of the elections?

Will we see canidates go to London, New York or Silicon Valley seeking votes?

How about within the next ten years? For many young ex-pats, life happens overseas, marry a local person and settle down overseas. However, thier children will remain French citizens with an EU Passport.

I don't know the outcome but I'm sure its a factor down the line.

Are there seats in the French Parlament representing French Ex-pats?

Good question. I have 3 friends who are French and live here in the US. I spoke with one over the phone just last week over this very matter. He seems to think that the French ex-pat community is completely forgotten by candidates. They have no one to represent them, nor does anyone in France seem to care about any French ex-pat groups/community in the US.

He did say something else interesting. He mentioned that extreme-right candidate LePen often begins or ends his speeches by mentioning French people in France AND outside of France. He hates Le Pen, but said this man was the only one who seemed to be aware that there are French people living elsewhere.

Personally, I was saddened and felt sorry that the French ex-pats here in the US never formed a group or never were represented in the face of French-Bashing, at it's worst in 2003. Last I saw on somw wikipedia page, the French ex-pats in the US number over 200,000. I wonder why it is they don't form a group.

[stonecutter]

Personally, I was saddened and felt sorry that the French ex-pats here in the US never formed a group or never were represented in the face of French-Bashing, at it's worst in 2003. Last I saw on somw wikipedia page, the French ex-pats in the US number over 200,000. I wonder why it is they don't form a group.

The problem is that 200,000 people scattered over a country as large as the U.S. is nothing. Heck, some immigrant communities have more numbers than that living in just one major U.S. city I'll bet.
Here in Alberta, my family knows a bunch of other ex-pats from France. All are pretty independent and individualistic, and that's the problem I think.
They hang out as buddies, but as for belonging to a formal organized group, well, sometimes that can be just too "structured" for the free-thinking French spirit I guess... :) But maybe my view is just coloured by the French dudes I've hung out around here with.

[Ordie]

In the Bay Area its a different story.
There is a cluster of young French Ex-pats in San Francisco who are well connected with each other and support each other for jobs and housing. Many are happy to be here and are dissapointed in the French system.

[mas-36]

In the Bay Area its a different story.
There is a cluster of young French Ex-pats in San Francisco who are well connected with each other and support each other for jobs and housing. Many are happy to be here and are dissapointed in the French system.

But do they see themselves as French expats? Why don't they use the opportunity to form a group of some kind that gets noticed in France, say a group or organization that advocates changes in the French economic system?

[Martel]

Be careful, some would say that Laetitia Casta is not french but corsican ;)

[Benhurmarcel]

Be careful, some would say that Laetitia Casta is not french but corsican ;)

And that will be totally stupid.

La nation française est une et indivisible.

[Martel]

I totally agree, tu prêches un converti !

[Ordie]

But do they see themselves as French expats? Why don't they use the opportunity to form a group of some kind that gets noticed in France, say a group or organization that advocates changes in the French economic system?

They are too busy working and are resigned to the fact that the "Soviet" system is too entrenched and self serving.

Besides, unlike the UK and Irish, Israeli Consulates which focuses in fostering high tech trade relations, the French consulate is focused on cultural ties and the promotion and protection of French culture.

The consulate spends alot of thier outreach effort on sponsoring lectures on "Voltaire" or "History of Wine Making", but little to attract investment or listening to fustrated ex-pats.

What would attract high tech ex-pats back to France? no taxes and exemption of employment regulations for the first four years of a start-up. I think that's what they want to hear when the next President of France visits Silicon Valley.

BTW: Napoleon was Corsican and Stalin was Georgian. But who cares.....

[Atlantic Friend]

Which begs a question.

How will the French ex-pat voter block will affect the outcome of the elections?

Will we see canidates go to London, New York or Silicon Valley seeking votes?

How about within the next ten years? For many young ex-pats, life happens overseas, marry a local person and settle down overseas. However, thier children will remain French citizens with an EU Passport.

I don't know the outcome but I'm sure its a factor down the line.

Are there seats in the French Parlament representing French Ex-pats?

Yes, there are. And expats can vote through embassies and consulates, of course.

[roland]

Which was pure greed on her part. Poor widdle Laetitia couldn't make enough money because of the eeevil tax system ? Please. Last time I checked she wasn't exactly hard-working middle class or a harrowed entrepreneur.

when pure greed will make her come back that would mean we are back on the right track.

[Ordie]

Okay...

I did an informal survey at the French Cafe this morning in California.

The majority of ex-pats (customers and employees) are jaded about French Politics. Most hate the Socialist and blame them for the lack of opportunity and for thier reason to immigrate to the US. All hate LePen racist agenda. Most place thier bets on Nicolas Skarzoy to win but do not expect much in reforming economic policy.

FYI: estimated 90,000 French Nationals in the SF Bay Area including Silicon Valley. It would be interesting if one of the canidates were to show up in Silicon Valley or London for a town hall meeting.

[Atlantic Friend]

when pure greed will make her come back that would mean we are back on the right track.

Dream on, Roland, dream on.

Even if French taxes were slashed in half she and the other fashionable people out there will just discover that The Caymans, or Costa Rica, or some other tax shelter paradise just NEEDS their presence. And there always will be some place will less taxes and more incentive for rich spoiled stars to come and enjoy some carousing.

I could care less about how heavy poor widdle Laetitia Casta thinks her tax burden is. I'd rather concentrate on the tax burden of the French middle-class who is both supposed to pay for social welfare for the "underprivileged" AND for tax cuts for the "overprivileged".

[Benhurmarcel]

Okay...

I did an informal survey at the French Cafe this morning in California.

The majority of ex-pats (customers and employees) are jaded about French Politics. Most hate the Socialist and blame them for the lack of opportunity and for thier reason to immigrate to the US. All hate LePen racist agenda. Most place thier bets on Nicolas Skarzoy to win but do not expect much in reforming economic policy.

FYI: estimated 90,000 French Nationals in the SF Bay Area including Silicon Valley. It would be interesting if one of the canidates were to show up in Silicon Valley or London for a town hall meeting.


It will be a complete suicide for the candidate. Most of the French are hostile to the economics values of the USA (sorry for my poor english I hope you will understand what I mean) and the Silicon Valley is the symbol.

It will be as stupid as the visit of Sarkosy to Bush to tell him that the french weren't right about Irak. rofl

[roland]

Dream on, Roland, dream on.

Even if French taxes were slashed in half she and the other fashionable people out there will just discover that The Caymans, or Costa Rica, or some other tax shelter paradise just NEEDS their presence. And there always will be some place will less taxes and more incentive for rich spoiled stars to come and enjoy some carousing.


There is levels of taxes any sane person can't stand. You cannot take more than 50-60% of what anybody earns. There is also the way those taxes are collected like the ISF (big fortune taxe) where it's the people themselves that have to evaluate there wealth and let it at the taxe inspector appreciation. There is also the way those taxes are spent, when you think power of nuisance instead of utility is used to decide where those taxes are going to be spent.
At some point it look like racket.

If you think those who expatriate for taxes reason are happy to do so you're all wrong and btw most go to Belgium, hardly a taxes paradise like Caiman island.

Don't try to find any excuse not to see the reality and don't blame people that act rationally.
A good system is when your private interest doesn't conflict with general interest.
When it's not the case that prove the system is bad and treating them traitors (something you didn't do but a lot did about Johnny) is utterly stupid.
Patriotism exists in economy but it's a bonus, you don't have to count on it to make thing work.

Laeticia Casta
http://nancyetroland.free.fr/private/Propagande/LaeticiaCasta.jpg

[Atlantic Friend]

There is levels of taxes any sane person can't stand. You cannot take more than 50-60% of what anybody earns. There is also the way those taxes are collected like the ISF (big fortune taxe) where it's the people themselves that have to evaluate there wealth and let it at the taxe inspector appreciation. There is also the way those taxes are spent, when you think power of nuisance instead of utility is used to decide where those taxes are going to be spent.
At some point it look like racket.

If you think those who expatriate for taxes reason are happy to do so you're all wrong and btw most go to Belgium, hardly a taxes paradise like Caiman island.

Don't try to find any excuse not to see the reality and don't blame people that act rationally.
A good system is when your private interest doesn't conflict with general interest.
When it's not the case that prove the system is bad and treating them traitors (something you didn't do but a lot did about Johnny) is utterly stupid.
Patriotism exists in economy but it's a bonus, you don't have to count on it to make thing work.[/IMG]

I'm not saying widdle Laetitia or that old drug addict are being irrational when they go where they can pay less taxes. I'm just saying the likes of them are hardly a priority in tax reform. They belong to a tiny, tiny minority both in demographic or tax bracket terms - you want to reform the tax system, first thing is to make a clear choice about the kind of services society will provide to its citizens through public funds, and set the taxes accordingly. Second thing would be to take care of the ever-shrinking part of the active population who is currently being told to pay for all the others, be that under the guise of welfare programs for the poor/improductive or tax cuts for the rich.

I also think there should not be such a thing as not paying any taxes - every citizen should contribute, even if it's a token contribution, just to remind him of his rights and responsibilities. That means, to make it cost-effective, adopting a different system of tax collection, which is made possible by modern technology, even if it is bound to ruffle civil servants unions' feathers.

As for our "impoverished" stars, I sure won't lose too much sleep boo-hooing about their plight regardless of the amount of cleavage they are willing to show - sorry people, fresh out of tissues here. I think making sure working families being able to buy a house or car or pay the kids' studies without worrying too much is a tad more important than making sure the likes of Casta, Halliday or Pagny can buy a fifth villa on the Riviera or another kilogram of coke from their favourite dealer.

[Ordie]

Without new jobs= no new tax revenues
Without revenues= no social services
No social services= Chaos

Can't feed out of an empty bowl.

Lower the taxes to create new jobs that create revenues to the state.

I think Adam Smith should be required reading in France.

If France lowers it barriers, I will be the frist to set up a Taco Truck business in Paris.

[Smashed!]

Without new jobs= no new tax revenues
Without revenues= no social services
No social services= Chaos

Can't feed out of an empty bowl.

Lower the taxes to create new jobs that create revenues to the state.

I think Adam Smith should be required reading in France.

If France lowers it barriers, I will be the frist to set up a Taco Truck business in Paris.

Stop wanking yourself. The private sector is not there to fill the national void in 21st century but to make money. Money doesn't serve the purpose of putting people to work (buying jobs) but providing more financial and social possibilities to people who own it.

So let's take your time frame and reverse it a bit.

Lower taxes in 21st century Europe lead to maximized profit not reinvestment. I think you should move on from the basic BS professed in the US.

Europe is facing a logical demographical backlash (as all mature societies) More profit means less investment and more speculation. More specualtion yes because there is a smaller will to invest (due to methodical hails put in by "anti-trust laws" and the basic hierarchical structure of the Euro-Capitalism). Who will risk any possible investment when the State wants more jobs and you want more "challenge"?

But let's put your logic to the test.

Less taxes? Less protection. Your lack of understanding of the integrated social protection system is blattant. The money the private sector will get discarded from the state will be extracted from the obligatory perceptions that the private employer issues to the state. Thus de facto the worker will see no difference on his pay check! Or even if he does so the differnce will be no match for the gap that will be created between his salary and his "lifestyle". The salary the worker will get will be in fact lower since the state will interveign only on the direct obligations between G and P.

Without no performant social services= Recession of the social tissue.

Recession of the social Tissue means:

1. Less value added to the products and services you issue.
2. Rampant classism. People will protect their hierarchical possitions at all costs even creating homogenous classes to defend their assets.
3. Stronger law and order issues. Militarization of your police force.
4. Implosion of your social tissue.

Maybe you like it in the US of A that kind of system but around here it's quite different.

So we got:

1. A demographical crisis: Solution? Immigration? Baby boom? Both are real troubles of intellectual order and heavily contested.
2. A structural crisis: People don't have answers for a highly concurrential reality and global agenda of fraternity, democracy and peace. Solution? Hypocrisy?
3. A smaller pie and greater number of players? Solution? A second Pie?...

So just keep that mouth shut and watch the big boys playing.


BTW France has no barriers with 25 states (including switzerland) and yet you see the results...and as for taco trucks, we got greeks, turks, chinese, mexicans and even american FF trucks!!!! around here your solution of consumption uber alles just doesn't fit the picture. But I'd love to see you debating further than those usual oversimplifications typically issued by an US of A citizen. There is so much candor on them.

[roland]

Stop wanking yourself. The private sector is not there to fill the national void in 21st century but to make money. Money doesn't serve the purpose of putting people to work (buying jobs) but providing more financial and social possibilities to people who own it.

So let's take your time frame and reverse it a bit.

Lower taxes in 21st century Europe lead to maximized profit not reinvestment. I think you should move on from the basic BS professed in the US.

Europe is facing a logical demographical backlash (as all mature societies) More profit means less investment and more speculation. More specualtion yes because there is a smaller will to invest (due to methodical hails put in by "anti-trust laws" and the basic hierarchical structure of the Euro-Capitalism). Who will risk any possible investment when the State wants more jobs and you want more "challenge"?

But let's put your logic to the test.

Less taxes? Less protection. Your lack of understanding of the integrated social protection system is blattant. The money the private sector will get discarded from the state will be extracted from the obligatory perceptions that the private employer issues to the state. Thus de facto the worker will see no difference on his pay check! Or even if he does so the differnce will be no match for the gap that will be created between his salary and his "lifestyle". The salary the worker will get will be in fact lower since the state will interveign only on the direct obligations between G and P.

Without no performant social services= Recession of the social tissue.

Recession of the social Tissue means:

1. Less value added to the products and services you issue.
2. Rampant classism. People will protect their hierarchical possitions at all costs even creating homogenous classes to defend their assets.
3. Stronger law and order issues. Militarization of your police force.
4. Implosion of your social tissue.

Maybe you like it in the US of A that kind of system but around here it's quite different.

So we got:

1. A demographical crisis: Solution? Immigration? Baby boom? Both are real troubles of intellectual order and heavily contested.
2. A structural crisis: People don't have answers for a highly concurrential reality and global agenda of fraternity, democracy and peace. Solution? Hypocrisy?
3. A smaller pie and greater number of players? Solution? A second Pie?...

So just keep that mouth shut and watch the big boys playing.


BTW France has no barriers with 25 states (including switzerland) and yet you see the results...and as for taco trucks, we got greeks, turks, chinese, mexicans and even american FF trucks!!!! around here your solution of consumption uber alles just doesn't fit the picture. But I'd love to see you debating further than those usual oversimplifications typically issued by an US of A citizen. There is so much candor on them.


communist bullsh:t
how many time your nice theories has to be proven wrong before you understand ?
EVERYTHING the state or social system do is hugely expensive but at the same time NOTHING works properly.
You can say what you want with your nice theories but as far as I'm concerned you are fired and I hope the french would do the same before the IMF does it.
Still I'm confident you socialist are going to try your little putch in fall or spring like you did with the big strikes of 1995 only six month after Chirac's first election so it's likelly nothing will change even if you lose the elections. wait and see.

[Smashed!]

Ahhh Laetitia Casta ou la plus belle femme du monde.

I think we just simply don't have the culture of business in France and we never will. We prefer earn less money but enjoy life more, what's wrong with that ?

Liberalism is as dangerous as the communism.

Care to elaborate? Communism is dangerous, but liberalism? Communism can exist if some asteroid shaked the earth and piles up bodies with a few survivors trying to go on with their lives, so it still represents a danger to some, but liberalism? It's a mirage, pure anarchy, you can't have it. It's day dreaming.

Leave LIberalism alone and concetrate on communism. It's a real plague. As time goes on all what the "great eve" lacked in 1900' is present today. And that scares the bon dieu out of me. And I am a leftist.

[Smashed!]

communist bullsh:t
how many time your nice theories has to be proven wrong before you understand ?
EVERYTHING the state or social system do is hugely expensive but at the same time NOTHING works properly.
You can say what you want with your nice theories but as far as I'm concerned you are fired and I hope the french would do the same before the IMF does it.
Still I'm confident you socialist are going to try your little putch in fall or spring like you did with the big strikes of 1995 only six month after Chirac's first election so it's likelly nothing will change even if you lose the elections. wait and see.

Communist? Listen dude. These are not theories. These are the progarm dispended by your guys out there. Le sieur Sarkozy explains to us how great it will be to work more in order to gain more? Great! Wait a minute why working more? Productivity is on the rise, french products do sell and quite well and over all your workers have far less demands when put on an european scale than the rest on the Eu workers. Gosh in Belgium there has been a 15 % increase these 12 last years on the constant salary. In france it has been a mere 6%. Don't you get it?

As for being proven wrong? You clearly don't get the picture. Every time people have tried to make reforms in France on the "liberal sense" they've managed to spend more and totally FU the labor market.

General strikes? hardly a challenge and it will corroborate my views on the militarization of the police forces. Most notably by passing des lois d'exception corroding the union's rights. Classical "work chopping" of conservative elites.

Now let's go towards the core issue with you people. How will a tax cut affect the social system? And what will replace it? A private sector solution? Thus a direct link between payment and service! Wich is called a contract. Contractualization of your life means you're rejected at the first problem!

These are not communist wet dreams, but simply an observation of the social system in the US of A.

[Ordie]

If the system were to continue in France, the United States will continue to reap the benefits of the French educational system with French talent in Silicon Valley.

Merci

France

[Smashed!]

If the system were to continue in France, the United States will continue to reap the benefits of the French educational system with French talent in Silicon Valley.

Merci

France

Yes and probably we'll reap your tourists, but hey that's my view of the world. You've yet to offer me a challenge on your "low tax/high income" paradigm...

[Zarathustra]

http://edition.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/europe/03/21/france.sarkozy.reut/index.html

[Zarathustra]

BBC (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6494789.stm)

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/42727000/jpg/_42727169_sarkozy_afp_203.jpg
Latest polls show Mr Sarkozy ahead


Sarkozy quits ahead of election

Nicolas Sarkozy has stepped down as France's interior minister to focus on his presidential candidacy.

Mr Sarkozy, who is running for the ruling UMP conservative party, was replaced by Francois Baroin, previously minister for overseas territories.
Recent polls show Mr Sarkozy, 52, with a narrow lead over Socialist Segolene Royal and centrist candidate Francois Bayrou in the presidential race.

Twelve candidates are standing in the first round on 22 April.
French President Jacques Chirac, who is stepping down after 12 years in office, last week gave his support to Mr Sarkozy's candidacy.
He said Mr Sarkozy's bid had received the full backing of the UMP party so it was "totally natural that I give him my vote and my support".

Mr Sarkozy has long been a leading member of Mr Chirac's government as finance and later interior minister but has often sought to distance himself from his former mentor.

Opinion polls in the last few days have suggested a 5% gap between the three leading candidates in the first round.
An opinion poll released by the Ipsos agency for Le Point news weekly on Sunday suggested Mr Sarkozy could take 30% of the vote on 22 April.
It put Ms Royal on 25.5% and Mr Bayrou on 19%.

The election is expected to go to a second round runoff between two candidates on 6 May.

[Martel]

FYI: estimated 90,000 French Nationals in the SF Bay Area including Silicon Valley. It would be interesting if one of the canidates were to show up in Silicon Valley or London for a town hall meeting.
Sarkozy visited french expat in London 2 weeks ago.



It will be as stupid as the visit of Sarkosy to Bush to tell him that the french weren't right about Irak. rofl
Sarkozy says that story is not true.

[AROUETLJ]

So, which of the candidates will raise my monthly bourse allowance?

[Ordie]

So, which of the candidates will raise my monthly bourse allowance?

See below for your answer



Europe March 26, 2007

Source: Business Week
French Elections: The Impact on Business

With the first round of France's presidential contest coming soon, it's far from clear whether economic reform will be a winner

by Carol Matlack (http://www.businessweek.com/print/bios/Carol_Matlack.htm)
For advocates of free-market economics, there's good news and bad news as the first round of France's Presidential election approaches on Apr. 22.
First, the good news: The left almost certainly will lose. Socialist Ségolène Royal has run such a lackluster, gaffe-****e campaign that she fell to neck-and-neck in the polls with a relatively unknown centrist candidate, François Bayrou. Though the latest numbers show Royal pulling ahead of Bayrou and advancing to the May 6 runoffs, the same surveys consistently show her getting trounced in a matchup against conservative front-runner Nicolas Sarkozy. Figures released on Mar. 25 by polling group Ipsos show Sarkozy winning the second round 53% to 47% over Royal.
Now, the bad news for free-marketeers: Even if Sarkozy wins, it's far from clear that France's ailing economy will get a serious dose of reform. True, a President Sarkozy would be the closest thing to an economic liberal that the Elysée Palace has seen in years. The energetic head of the center-right UMP party has promised tax cuts and increased labor-market flexibility, lambasting Socialist measures such as the 35-hour work week that have hobbled French competitiveness.
"Nicolas Sarkozy understands our problems and is presenting real solutions," says André Garreta, a real-estate agency owner from southwestern France who recently attended a meeting with Sarkozy in Paris, organized by a group of small-business owners.
"No Longer Competitive"

But Sarkozy has also shown a decided dirigiste streak, saying the government should act as a "strategist" for key sectors of the economy. As Finance Minister in 2004, he helped engineer a state bailout of industrial group Alstom. More recently, he questioned the "morality" of shareholders in Airbus's parent European Aeronautics Defence & Space Co. receiving dividends if the planemaker carried out a plan to lay off 10,000 workers.
Certainly, such populist rhetoric is aimed at attracting voters worried that right-leaning Sarkozy would be a French version of Margaret Thatcher. But that could be just what the country needs. By almost any measure, France is in far worse economic shape today than when voters last chose a president in 2002. Growth in 2006 was 2%, well below the euro zone average of 2.8%, and this year doesn't look much better. Industrial output and consumer spending are sagging. And while the unemployment rate has declined over the past several years, at 8.4% it's still far above the Western European average of 7%.
Equally unsettling to French pride is the revival of Germany. As recently as three years ago, Germany lagged France on a host of economic indicators. But after a series of tax and labor-market reforms enacted under former Chancellor Gerhard Schröder and his successor Angela Merkel, Germany has now pulled well ahead of France. Its economy grew a robust 2.9% in 2006, while unemployment fell to 7.7%, according to OECD estimates. While France's trade deficit is rising, reinvigorated German businesses are exporting at record levels. "We are no longer competitive," says Pierre Nanterme, an official of the leading French employers' association, known as MEDEF.
Crippling National Debt

Yet many French still seem to expect reform without sacrifice. Just one example: Public spending consumes 53.7% of France's economy—one of the highest proportions of any country in the world—dampening growth because employers must pay heavy payroll taxes to support it. Yet a poll in early March by Ipsos found that 52% of French opposed the idea of whittling down the size of the civil service even by leaving positions vacant when workers retire.
Indeed, a yearning for painless reform seems to be a key element in the campaign of Bayrou, the third-party candidate who is drawing 19% support in recent polls, compared with 25% for Royal and 30% for Sarkozy.
Bayrou, a former Education Minister from the centrist UDF party, has said he would devote half the revenues generated by economic growth to paying down France's crippling national debt, which now totals almost 70% of the economy. But he hasn't said how he would address a key problem behind the debt: the fast-ballooning cost of a generous health-care and social security system. Sarkozy likewise has said little about how he would curb such costs.
Welfare State a Sacred Cow

At least, voters seem to realize that big-spending Socialist initiatives won't do the trick. Royal's poll numbers didn't budge after she released long-awaited details of her economic plan, which calls for raising government-paid pensions and unemployment benefits, and boosting the minimum wage to $2,000 a month.
Even leading Socialists fretted that she shouldn't promise such extravagances without explaining how they would be financed. "There has been an evolution toward the right in France. The public is demanding more discipline in public spending," says Pierre Giacometti, who heads the Ipsos polling group.
But Sarkozy, even if he wins by a decisive margin, could face stiff public resistance if he takes aim at the welfare state. Though Royal and other left-wing candidates together have less than 35% support in recent polls, a majority of French voters still lean toward the left, says Jean-Daniel Lévy of the CSA polling group. In the current campaign, "they've had trouble finding someone who translates their ideas" into a credible platform, Lévy says. But a Sarkozy presidency could be paralyzed by crippling strikes and protests if Socialists take their cause to the streets.
With nearly four more weeks left before the first round of voting, there's plenty of time for the contenders to improve their standing in the polls, or to stumble and fall. But aggressive free-market reform is almost certain to remain a long shot.
Matlack (Carol_Matlack@businessweek.com) is BusinessWeek's Paris bureau chief.

[AROUETLJ]

See below for your answer


Hehe, none of them! Bah, I can't vote anyway, so it's really no concern of mine.

[Atlantic Friend]

Chirac: I will not run again

Hell, neither will I, Jacques me old buddy. I swear I'll either take a cab or just be late.