Proposal of new Polish combat uniform by Miwo - Military *Link*

[Switek]

It's a commercial propsal of Polisch combat uniform prepared by former servicepersons with close cooperation with actual combat soldiers. What's intersting they are available.

Price:
Jacket UP about 80 USD / 60 EUR (225 zł)
Trousers UP about 78 USD / 58 EUR (218 zł)

Fabric: Rip-stop

Pix are protected so there're links to JACKET (http://www.miwo-military.com/index.php?go=09_1) and TROUSERS (http://www.miwo-military.com/index.php?go=09_2).

Sizes are given in a chart in cm.

[Rosa Jonas]

I think it's quite cool yeah, the camo tiles a lot though.

[Switek]

I've made few scans... sorry for poor quality. Anyway interesting details

http://img259.imageshack.us/img259/1786/scn1002kx9.jpg

http://img259.imageshack.us/img259/8704/scn1003te5.jpg

http://img259.imageshack.us/img259/2111/scn1004fs8.jpg

http://img255.imageshack.us/img255/5107/scn1005su6.jpg

[Rosa Jonas]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v179/Catch22/MIWO%20Lubliniec/mundur1.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v179/Catch22/MIWO%20Lubliniec/mundur2.jpg

[maple.leaf]

Pretty nice - considering they're obviously very heavily influenced by the ACU.

Can anybody translate what they say about other patterns?
wz.93 Pantera ( leśna i pustynna)
fiński kamuflaż cyfrowy (leśny i pustynny)
duński pustynny
jednolity piaskowy
w przygotowaniu czarny.

I can see that they've got the new Finnish digital pattern in Forest and Desert varieties (love it!) and that they've got Danish desert (COOL!) and also the Woodland and Desert varieties of Polish Pantera.

But I wish they had an English version of their website...

[Switek]

Pretty nice - considering they're obviously very heavily influenced by the ACU.

Can anybody translate what they say about other patterns?
wz.93 Pantera ( leśna i pustynna)
fiński kamuflaż cyfrowy (leśny i pustynny)
duński pustynny
jednolity piaskowy
w przygotowaniu czarny.

I can see that they've got the new Finnish digital pattern in Forest and Desert varieties (love it!) and that they've got Danish desert (COOL!) and also the Woodland and Desert varieties of Polish Pantera.

But I wish they had an English version of their website...

True, it's inflenced by ACU



wz.93 Pantera ( leśna i pustynna) - wz.93 (camouflage) Pantera (woodland and desert)
fiński kamuflaż cyfrowy (leśny i pustynny) - Finnish digital camo (woodland and desert)
duński pustynny - Dannish desert
jednolity piaskowy - one color desret
w przygotowaniu czarny. - black in preperations


This is about available versions

[maple.leaf]

Spasiba Switek.

Mmmmmm, Finnish digital.... Somebody stop me before I try to order a set.
:bash:

[Rosa Jonas]

The finnish is digital yes, but it's not a pixel camo like MARPAT and CADAT. It's a fractal camo like the Italian (the pics has ripstop fabric so it appears like pixels to me :/)

[maple.leaf]

The finnish is digital yes, but it's not a pixel camo like MARPAT and CADAT. It's a fractal camo like the Italian (the pics has ripstop fabric so it appears like pixels to me :/)

Doesn't matter - it's still cool (and that's the first time I've seen any possibility of being able to buy a set).

[Ohtar1985]

http://img466.imageshack.us/img466/2608/realcolorfi6.jpg

This camo would be nice for it. :)

[Switek]

http://img466.imageshack.us/img466/2608/realcolorfi6.jpg

This camo would be nice for it. :)

Great find! Do you have more pix and any info?

[Ohtar1985]

Ask Catch22 from Miwo-Lubliniec.

Ta fotka to Photoshop bodajże... Polak potrafi :P



EDIT - just one more pic -

http://img265.imageshack.us/img265/1908/previewwoodlandco0.jpg

[Switek]

Thanks dude,

I wish our military officials appreciated this...

[Ohtar1985]

Maybe in 2016 they will... ;)

[Rosa Jonas]

http://rj.thanez.org/poland/preview_Woodland.jpg
http://rj.thanez.org/poland/preview_Arid.jpg
http://rj.thanez.org/poland/preview_Artic.jpg

"flecktarnized" non pixels but spots, works better/the same.

http://rj.thanez.org/poland/spot_Woodland.jpg
http://rj.thanez.org/poland/spot_Arid.jpg
http://rj.thanez.org/poland/spot_Artic.jpg

[maple.leaf]

What is this pattern? It's very good! Is it being prepared for commercial sales?

I think the Spot_Artic is better than the pixilated version - but the pixilated versions of the woodland and arid look better than the spot versions.

[Rosa Jonas]

Well, I got contacted asking if I wanted to try and make something they might consider using. Seeing how some of the older stuff was posted here I figured it was okay to post the newest?

[maple.leaf]

[quote=Rosa Jonas;2367047]Well, I got contacted asking if I wanted to try and make something they might consider using. quote]

Who for? Norway or Poland? MIWO or military?

[Rosa Jonas]

As far as I know just this company, don't know what I should be discussing and what not to be.

[maple.leaf]

Okay. Well I hope they produce it - 'cause it's great!

[Guy Cramer]

Looks like a copyright infringment of our HyperStealth patterns.

[Rosa Jonas]

huh?

Hows that, haven't looked at your patterns and site when making it, nor any of the colors.

I just took a three color break up base similare to the norwiegan color scheme (as requested) and had a fourth dark color for depht as detail.

I suppose you're talking about the first camo picture posted (the first pattern I tried to make for this, which wont even be used in whatever imma hand in for evaluation) with original polish colors (which wasn't wanted due to turning OD from distances)

I will carry on with this seeing I haven't looked, stolen, taken colors or traced any of your camo patterns in this, and the latest is nothing alike.

The spot camo is not pixel, its rounded like flecktarn (nothing from your specam) I thought this could be a break for me and ive worked hard on it, please do not ruin it.

[Catch22]

Honestly, Guy I doubt so. I personally asked RJ (he's got a knack at it, as he proved in the other topic) to try and propose a few diffrent patterns for our eventual use, and during the last few days he provided us with at least six or seven variations starting from simple digital, then after some consultations regarding the colours and pattern itself - ending with the effects shown above (and I hope it's not the final). He's not the only one person working on the given pattern, and I highly doubt if he even took any direct inspiration from Hyperstealth works. (he provided us with 1:1 scale samples, and it doesn't look at all Hyperstealthish to me). All the micropatterns look similiar so I wouldn't be to quick to jump to the conclusions. As much as I apperciate your work Guy - following this line of thinking you could as well blame Estonians for their new woodland pattern this way.

According to the best of my knowledge it's just as RJ wrote above. We are looking into several options and authors to develop a new camouflage...

[Guy Cramer]

So far we have about 2,700 patterns under copyright. It'll be tough to design something we have not done yet. There are only so many variations you can come up with which would be considered unique and independent of our designs. I saw this niche five years ago and capitalized on the lack of other designers over the past few years, knowing they might eventually catch-up, but copyright (first original work) is considered intellectual property and allows those copyright holders protection from others that knowingly or unknowingly violate that copyright - just read the business section and you'll see company's which violated copyright, patent or trademarks losing huge cases.

Another concern is that another country will take any ideas posted on this forum and use it for themselves. We've turned down countries which are on the "Table of Deny" lists as they don’t have the ability to develop these patterns and this is just the stuff their scientists are looking for. Notice how many new patterns you've seen on our site in the past few years, the new ones are kept away from general disclosure until our clients requires us to do so? The Chinese are great at picking these patterns off the internet postings and blatantly infringing.

Finally effective Camouflage is “rocket science”, what used to be considered a field for artists only has now become a science unto itself. To design camouflage without these key areas of scientific understanding is the same thing as asking a carpenter to rebuild your car engine, he might get lucky but odds are it won’t run as well as it did before he started. Most studies and research we’ve done and those of my partner are still confidential within the U.S. Government, which tells you how much importance they place on not allowing others to obtain it.

[bilbo baggins]

So far we have about 2,700 patterns under copyright. It'll be tough to design something we have not done yet. There are only so many variations you can come up with which would be considered unique and independent of our designs. I saw this niche five years ago and capitalized on the lack of other designers over the past few years, knowing they might eventually catch-up, but copyright (first original work) is considered intellectual property and allows those copyright holders protection from others that knowingly or unknowingly violate that copyright - just read the business section and you'll see company's which violated copyright, patent or trademarks losing huge cases.


Purely an intellectual question or two............how can you copyright colour whether patterned or not? US Copyright doesn't apply everywhere, so why do you think you have Global Rights?

Just curious and I am NOT trying to start a flame session or any other such rubbish. If you want to keep the response private just PM me.

[Guy Cramer]

By virtue of the Berne Convention for the Protection of Literary and Artistic Works, works are protected without any formality in all the countries party to that Convention. This means that international copyright protection is automatic, it exists as soon as a work is created, and this principle applies in all the countries party to the Berne Convention. http://www.wipo.int/copyright/en/

World map showing the parties of Berne Convention signatories (in blue).
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/6c/Berne_Convention.png/800px-Berne_Convention.png
Even if a non-signatory country infringes on copyright, the rights of the original copyright holder are still protected if that intellectual property is moved into a Berne Convention signatory country.


Some more background on international copyright
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berne_Convention_for_the_Protection_of_Literary_and_Artistic_Works

[Guy Cramer]

Of course you have to be able to prove to the court that you actually created something on a given date. There are a few ways to do this - the best is to register a copyright with your government. If it is disputed the courts will look at all parties’ claims and make a determination based on a few factors; date, proof of original date, originality, differences...

[Switek]

Interesting dispute. Guy, I underestand your point but this something I've been thinking about some time: flecktarnization, digitalization, pixelization of camouflages leads to similiar results. In the result we got camo patterns which are difficult to distinguish at firs glance (i.e. Danish M84 and CADPAT, for example).

Well I guess there was no intention to violate your copyrights. I believe it must be confusing when you invest in R&D process, gain objective data and make comparative studies and you find that that some other guys went to the same conclusions by trial and error method.

[sig551]

Hello,

Where can we buy these sweet camo ?

Thanks,

[kangur]

Guy Cramer, finally somebody has said it! Camouflage IS ROCKET SCIENCE! Whenever I see somebody say something like : "we have asked Mr. X to design some patterns for us" makes me want to throw up.

I remember the process employed to develop Australian DPCU by Melbourne university - it was a very long and complicated process. When working with Camtech and Barracuda I got some insight into the process. IN short - you cannot just sit down and draw something that "looks nice" - that was ok in WW2. Ask Barracuda (SAAB) why they spend all that money on camo - whould they do that if it was just so simple?

Regards,

K.

[maple.leaf]

Well, you can still just sit down and draw or computer-sim something that looks nice, it just means that it might not be as effective as something that is done more scientifically.

To Guy's points; I think the issues lay in the use of micro and macro patterns (which is something that Col. Timothy O'Niel and Guy Cramer have developed). Also, they did a project a couple of years ago where they digitalized loads of analogue patterns - so the Norwegian camo might already be part of that: http://www.hyperstealth.com/adc2.htm

However, if these designs do not infringe upon copyright - then go for it, make 'em put 'em to the test, let's see how they perform.

P.S. I believe that the reason why Barracuda's camouflage development is so expensive and "rocket science" is becuase they came at it from the direction of 3D concelament and thermal signature masking.

[Rosa Jonas]

well, heres the story. I'm really just someone who texture for games (not proffecionally) and i got into recreating and making camouflage then. (erld recreation etc) I've done photoshop for seven years and creating camo was fun, basic 40-50 percent body break up base with detailing.

I posted some of the camouflages I'd made by myself here on the site and got contacted, quickly I said I'm far too young and non scientific (math) like the pros. They still wanted me to try and that's what I did, I've slowly gone from texturing player models for a hobby, to create camo for them, to now for fun making my own. I mean i'm 15 in norway, when will I ever have the chance again and they still asked after they knew what they where going with.

I wont go to court, not done anything wrong like stealing and i havent made money or distributed it away. Guy cramer and whoever needs to let me know what copyright I've broken so I can remove it or work around it, if he has copyright on pixel shapes I'll cut that out, see if they still want it.

I didn't know they'd post this here and I had no clue people would be upset about it, frustrating.

I mean, just let me know and I'll do my best to fix it or leave. Having copied nothing nor intentionally broken copyright it would be odd.

[Guy Cramer]

Interesting dispute. Guy, I underestand your point but this something I've been thinking about some time: flecktarnization, digitalization, pixelization of camouflages leads to similiar results. In the result we got camo patterns which are difficult to distinguish at firs glance (i.e. Danish M84 and CADPAT, for example).

Well I guess there was no intention to violate your copyrights. I believe it must be confusing when you invest in R&D process, gain objective data and make comparative studies and you find that that some other guys went to the same conclusions by trial and error method.

Part of our work is designing new camouflage, however, we witnessed one very bad program where a military digitized an existing design and then went into production with it. So we embarked on converting as many of the world military camouflages to the digital effect http://www.hyperstealth.com/adc2.htm we did this on a number of levels with each pattern meaning from poor to excellent quality so other countries would not be allowed to make the same mistakes as they would actually infringe on our copyright if they attempted the same thing. It also protects these countries camouflage from being used as a digital version by another country without royalties. As such if you see a digitized version of an existing pattern it is likely to infringe on our work.

[Rosa Jonas]

Part of our work is designing new camouflage, however, we witnessed one very bad program where a military digitized an existing design and then went into production with it. So we embarked on converting as many of the world military camouflages to the digital effect http://www.hyperstealth.com/adc2.htm we did this on a number of levels with each pattern meaning from poor to excellent quality so other countries would not be allowed to make the same mistakes as they would actually infringe on our copyright if they attempted the same thing. It also protects these countries camouflage from being used as a digital version by another country without royalties. As such if you see a digitized version of an existing pattern it is likely to infringe on our work.

E/

nvm, got it. Well I'll bend around and try not to step on anyone's toes.

[Guy Cramer]

Yes we've done serveral variations of Norway camouflage as one of the co-founders of our company is from Norway and one of their top people in the military has asked him for simulations from us.

[GNR]

I completely understand Guy not wanting his hard work being copied, however RJ, don't be bullied out of your creativity.

The protection exists so that people don't imitate someone else's hard work, take credit for it and get paid when they don't truly deserve the royalties.

Also, a 10% difference in design is all that is typically required to avoid copyright infringement. It is possible for two people to have very similiar ideas (closer than 10% the same). The one that copyrighted the idea first wins the right to sell it.

Although I am no legal expert, I think the companies that came up with the original camo-pattern & colour combinations have a better chance of winning a court case for copyright infringment than either you or Guy. After all it is their patterns you are digitizing.

[Guy Cramer]

My hat is off to what Rosa has accomplished. Entire country's research programs have been unable able to do this at that level.

[Rosa Jonas]

My hat is off to what Rosa has accomplished. Entire country's research programs have been unable able to do this at that level.

40-50 percent body break up base+ detail and depht?

haha, thanks. Well I'll try my best not making it look like something else, didn't do it with this so I suppose its a hard thing to do :/

[Guy Cramer]

As most of our patterns are not viewable by the public but still under copyright and most of the 2700 are original work (not based on an existing country pattern) how do you make something that is original?

[Rosa Jonas]

Around the 18'th century many people within science stated that all that could be invented had already been created, I'm sure it can be done.

[Guy Cramer]

Yes you’re correct – but that deals with a wide range of science, camouflage is quite limited in scope and process which limits the design element to a number of variables that can only be changed so many times until you find yourself back where you started - it is a looped finite system. I can't tell you how many times I've changed one of our patterns with an algorithm only to find it looks just like another pattern we had previously done which had been accomplished with a totally different set of design elements. When we were working on the British DPM digital system a few of our conversion algorithms caused some of these new DPM designs to take on the same appearance of the CADPAT and MARPAT designs – we couldn’t use those as they would have infringed on those copyrights.

[maple.leaf]

Around the 18'th century many people within science stated that all that could be invented had already been created, I'm sure it can be done.

Bill Gates once famously said that a 250MB hard disk was big enough for anybody, and the head of IBM back in the late '50's (or early '60's) said that the total world market for computers was 5! ;-)

RJ - you've definitely got some serious talent, so don't give up what you're doing. If anything, I guess the lesson here is to just be more careful about posting your ideas on public internet forums. But having said that, I'm glad you did! :-)

If Guy seems a bit twitchy about it all - it's only becuase he's already been burned...

[Rosa Jonas]

I didn't post mine here, someone else did. I just posted the newest version so people wouldn't get the wrong idea, I wont be pushed out of making camo before I'm even properly in it Guy. If it's so hopeless there wouldn't be a business of it.

and maple. my talent lies with texturing, really. camouflage is something on the side.

[maple.leaf]

Yes we've done serveral variations of Norway camouflage as one of the co-founders of our company is from Norway and one of their top people in the military has asked him for simulations from us.

Well I hope they pick up on it - 'cause their existing pattern is gastly. ;-)

[Guy Cramer]

We are not too worried about infringement - we would make more money on violations due to penalties, royalties owed... than we will on a typical license. I am just offering a word of caution before you step into the mine-field.

My Grandfather invented the Walkie-Talkie http://www.hyperstealth.com/DonHings/first-walkie-talkie.htm and many other electronic patents. I was his research assistant for a number of years and one of the most challenging lessons he taught me was to how to properly protect intellectual property speaking from his own lifetime experience of fighting numerous violations.

[Rosa Jonas]

So by using a proper algorythm you've bought/made and recreating all existing camos plus making new ones, all camouflage created (most likely) will fall under one of your copyrights and you'll own it, being able to demand refund or money if used?

Well, it's genious but kinda kills any competitor. Is it what you want? beats me tbh.

-- took it down-

so this pattern which is created life size (little larger than this in scale, whole pattern itself is bigger as well) by own concept and without seeing it before ever, belongs to you and I can't sell or distribute it? Or is it so that your copyrights only goes as far as canada and the U.S.

I understand the whole thing where a soldier shouldnt wear life threatening camo which is cheaply made, but this would stop anyone who made money off it right? So any non army shop or fashion camo as well?

I guess all my work was for nothing, god.

[Guy Cramer]

I would suggest that you pull the image down unless you want to see the pattern on CNN in a civil war.

[Rosa Jonas]

well, it was resized and 1/12 of the pattern. but the original polish camo would tile even more :P

[Guy Cramer]

Thanks. The pattern as you showed it - traditional analog - might not infringe on our designs but may infringe on others as I know Russia has something similar.

Our copyright fall under the Berne Convention, which means it is protected in almost all countries. Patents on the other hand fall under only those countries you file in. So if you patent in Canada someone in South Africa can duplicate without royalties or infringement, unless they try to sell back into the country you have patents in.

[perdurabo]

RJ, first thing they must proove in court that your pattern is copy of theirs invention.

[Rosa Jonas]

I'm 15 and wont go to court, even tho I haven't intentionally done anything wrong. This isn't my living and I would just have to give it this camo up rather than messing up stuff. It seems to me the russians has way too much patterns, it's rare i've seen a pattern twice on russian troops :S

[maple.leaf]

I think the point was less about HyperStealth suing you for copyright infringement, but rather more about some other person (or country) copying your design, using it and not giving you any credit or royalties for it.

[perdurabo]

I'm 15 and wont go to court, even tho I haven't intentionally done anything wrong. This isn't my living and I would just have to give it this camo up rather than messing up stuff. It seems to me the russians has way too much patterns, it's rare i've seen a pattern twice on russian troops :S
of course, you won't be sued if you worked for MIWO, they will be as owners and producers of pattern (if you ceded property rights on them as part of agreement), i wish anyone that will go to Polish court, i have been sued and I sued few peaple procedures take ages, curently im in 1 case that goes 3rd year already and only 2 "meetings" took place. And for now they are only dots in computer, until production nothing will happen, so you can just talk with them if you come with new ideas if they are realy new or not, its still designing phase.

[Rosa Jonas]

I think the point was less about HyperStealth suing you for copyright infringement, but rather more about some other person (or country) copying your design, using it and not giving you any credit or royalties for it.


Wasn't talking about the pattern image i put up, rather the comment above which I figured was aimed at russian military reacting to the pattern i made.

[Guy Cramer]

10 Big Myths about copyright explained http://www.templetons.com/brad/copymyths.html

[Royal]

As such if you see a digitized version of an existing pattern it is likely to infringe on our work.

So basically you've stolen other peoples work, digitised it, and then copyrighted it?

[Guy Cramer]

So basically you've stolen other peoples work, digitised it, and then copyrighted it?

My Grandfather had one patent changed by other people four times, he revised and improved each time and in the end won the case and was granted the patent. Improvements can in-fact become considered original even though it's based on previous original work. I didn’t write the rules – I just play by them.

The original patterns only had a traditional Macropattern, we added the micropattern, enough of a difference to constitute copyright. However, it was done to protect these countries patterns from being hijacked or being used as a base to create digital patterns. If we didn't do it, someone else would have.

[Switek]

Part of our work is designing new camouflage, however, we witnessed one very bad program where a military digitized an existing design and then went into production with it. So we embarked on converting as many of the world military camouflages to the digital effect http://www.hyperstealth.com/adc2.htm we did this on a number of levels with each pattern meaning from poor to excellent quality so other countries would not be allowed to make the same mistakes as they would actually infringe on our copyright if they attempted the same thing. It also protects these countries camouflage from being used as a digital version by another country without royalties. As such if you see a digitized version of an existing pattern it is likely to infringe on our work.

Did you digitalize Polish pantera ("Panther") camo? I'm just curious and I'd like to see any pix of it, if possible.

One thing makes me wonder... you executed much work and time (money) to develop new camouflages but AFAIK only one state (Kingdoom of Jordan) is widely known as your customer. Knowing decission making process in my country I know that it's difficult for decission makers from our MoD to accept sobebody else's achievements and pay for it. It would be nationalwide scandal that we can not develope our camo pattern... Is this a matter of your PR, sales policy or somethin else that you results in terms of sales numbers (quantity of your clients) seems unsufficient. - Do not take this offensive it's based on my own observation, which can be obviously wrong.

[Royal]

If we didn't do it, someone else would have.

Nice justification.

I'm just glad that they're happy that you hold the patents to life-saving gear for their soldiers. Hope they pay you for it too...

[Guy Cramer]

Did you digitalize Polish pantera ("Panther") camo? I'm just curious and I'd like to see any pix of it, if possible.

One thing makes me wonder... you executed much work and time (money) to develop new camouflages but AFAIK only one state (Kingdoom of Jordan) is widely known as your customer. Knowing decission making process in my country I know that it's difficult for decission makers from our MoD to accept sobebody else's achievements and pay for it. It would be nationalwide scandal that we can not develope our camo pattern... Is this a matter of your PR, sales policy or somethin else that you results in terms of sales numbers (quantity of your clients) seems unsufficient. - Do not take this offensive it's based on my own observation, which can be obviously wrong.

A number of our clients do not want publicity, most Government programs take years before they even get to field trials. I cannot say much more than that - it is the nature of the business.

[Rosa Jonas]

Well, you've got monopoly on this right now, who's your real competitors? Couldn't you just digitize the multicam and completely stop it lock the business?
makes me want to buy/make a better form of algorythm and renew patents tbh, it would be fun, lol.

(dont make me do it, i'd hate to waste 30 years of my life on one mission)

[Guy Cramer]

We've already digitized Multicam - I probably have 30 different variations of it. I've spoken to Caleb Crye about it; if and when they choose to use it they know where to find us. In the meantime it stops others from doing the same thing (which would likely infringe on our copyright) and take away Crye's business.

You don't want to destroy competition, then it becomes a monopoly and that is when governments get upset.

[maple.leaf]

I'm just glad that they're happy that you hold the patents to life-saving gear for their soldiers. Hope they pay you for it too...

Just to be pedantic - camouflage is "mission-enhancing" gear, not "life-saving"...

But be that as it may - I'm sure that any right-thinking defence ministry or military organisation would be more interested in the effectiveness of the gear, than worry about where it originated from.

In fact, it could be argued that the US armed forces have suffered becuase of the Bill passed by Congress a few years ago that requires the forces to only purchase gear that is "Made in the USA" (unless the order amount is less than $100K).

[DIMES]

why digitize Multicam? anyway, how do you do the fades in the colors? got pics? I would like to see them.

[Guy Cramer]

Only Crye and the U.S. Government can have access to view the Digital Multicam.

[red dragon]

By virtue of the Berne Convention for the Protection of Literary and Artistic Works, works are protected without any formality in all the countries party to that Convention. This means that international copyright protection is automatic, it exists as soon as a work is created, and this principle applies in all the countries party to the Berne Convention. http://www.wipo.int/copyright/en/

World map showing the parties of Berne Convention signatories (in blue).
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/6c/Berne_Convention.png/800px-Berne_Convention.png
Even if a non-signatory country infringes on copyright, the rights of the original copyright holder are still protected if that intellectual property is moved into a Berne Convention signatory country.


Some more background on international copyright
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berne_Convention_for_the_Protection_of_Literary_and_Artistic_Works

China is on this list?

[Guy Cramer]

Yes China has tried to knockoff a few of our patterns but we were able to stop it before any damage was done. Their government is getting better at clamping down on infringement. One of the issues the WTO has had about China has been that in the past they've turned a blind eye on the infringement (even though they belong to the Berne Convention) so in order to get acceptance by the WTO they are required to stop infringement and they now will shut down an entire factory which is caught manufacturing or selling a product without permission which is under copyright.

[galardo]

have you seen last adidtion to miwo military uniforms? :) http://miwo-military.pl/?p=8.261.BLUZA-Z-KOLNIERZEM.K-04B.
camo named "pantera leśna pixel"
from same page:
http://miwo-military.pl/?p=img.gsB.22

[Switek]

have you seen last adidtion to miwo military uniforms? :) http://miwo-military.pl/?p=8.261.BLUZA-Z-KOLNIERZEM.K-04B.
camo named "pantera leśna pixel"
from same page:
http://miwo-military.pl/?p=img.gsB.22

Nice first post mate! woot. Welcome to he forum. Digitalized woodland panther looks interesting but still keeps disadvantages of macropattern.

btw I'd like to see an English version of new Miwo Military website, which is quite interesting now, anyaway :)

[maple.leaf]

From this photograph, I don't see any advantage to that pattern. In fact, the colours all seem to smudge together...

[Amandil]

...it was done to protect these countries patterns from being hijacked or being used as a base to create digital patterns.That's called paternalism. Big Daddy Guy knows best, sucks to the people he's "protecting."

Mr. Cramer, I hope you protect me by digitizing the picture of my face below, so that I won't be able to, let alone anybody else. Only you will have the rights. Except, please don't ask me first. I don't want to have any say in the matter. Thanks.

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b29/Acidophilus-Bifidus/Photo25.jpg

[maple.leaf]

Take it off-line.

Let's get back to the topic.

[galardo]

maple.leaf.... it was sarcasm...

and that panther pixel pattern wasnt tested in field, used by soldiers etc

they've made this uniform in that camo cause they can

[Amandil]

Indeed, it was sarcasm. But it was also making a point. About paternalism. That's a business ethics issue. Am not sure if Mr. Cramer wants to go there.

Another thing that blows my mind is the double-speak:
So far we have about 2,700 patterns under copyright. It'll be tough to design something we have not done yet. There are only so many variations you can come up with which would be considered unique and independent of our designs.
You don't want to destroy competition, then it becomes a monopoly and that is when governments get upset.Make up your mind, Mr. Cramer. Do you want to copyright every single digital camo pattern possible, or do you want to keep things open for the competition and avoid monopolizing the field?

[rafus]

and more than two years after the last post nothing has changed. The Polish army camo did not turn digital in the end