Undocumented Immigrant US Taxpayers

[Ordie]

Here's another paradox in the immigration debate. Undocumented immigrant US taxpayers. Ironically enough the taxes earned income from these immigrants contributes to the wages and incomes of Border Patrol agents along with all the goods and services provided by the Federal Government including Social Security.

Here's another irony, for employers, if given the choice between hiring undocumented labor or not reporting taxes to the IRS, the employer would choose hiring the undocumented. Because they fear the IRS more than the INS. With the INS, at least you can settle an agreement. However, once you're on the bad list of the IRS, you're audited for life.


March 5, 2007 ·
National Public Radio
The hundreds of thousands of immigrants working in the United States illegally are still expected to pay income taxes. The program works by providing a special tax identification number instead of a Social Security number — and participants are guaranteed that the information can't be used to deport them.
But the program's critics say that it amounts to the Internal Revenue Service abetting illegal immigrants.
More than 1 million non-U.S. citizens will file their taxes this year. One of the reasons that those who are living and working illegally in the United States want to file taxes is that they see an opportunity to prove their economic contribution and document their residence.
Last year, 1.4 million people used the special numbers. The last time the government checked, more than half of the people using an individual taxpayer identification number, or ITIN, were illegal immigrants.
Federal tax law prohibits the IRS from sharing information with other government agencies, including immigration authorities. So it's the promise of confidentiality that allows immigrants to file their taxes without fear of being deported.
The U.S. Treasury created ITINs 11 years ago, to help people working here without Social Security numbers comply with U.S. tax laws. According to the law, if you earn money here you have to report it, even if you're here illegally.
Marti Dinerstein, president of Immigration Matters, a public policy firm in New York that advocates for stricter immigration laws, calls the situation "ridiculous."
"They know that people that are using ITINs are in the country illegally," Dinerstein says. "It's basically tantamount to institutionalizing illegal immigration in the country."
The IRS won't comment on this, although in congressional hearings, IRS officials have acknowledged concern that the ITINs may be used for non-tax purposes. In fact, some banks have accepted the numbers in lieu of a Social Security number.
Immigration officials say the IRS is just doing what it's supposed to do — collect taxes. They say the onus is on employers to verify the legal status of their employees.
Source:http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=7718604






April 5, 2005

Illegal Immigrants Are Bolstering Social Security With Billions

NY Times
By EDUARDO PORTER (http://query.nytimes.com/search/query?ppds=bylL&v1=EDUARDO PORTER&fdq=19960101&td=sysdate&sort=newest&ac=EDUARDO PORTER&inline=nyt-per)

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/dropcap/s.gifTOCKTON, Calif. - Since illegally crossing the Mexican border into the United States six years ago, Ángel Martínez has done backbreaking work, harvesting asparagus, pruning grapevines and picking the ripe fruit. More recently, he has also washed trucks, often working as much as 70 hours a week, earning $8.50 to $12.75 an hour.
Not surprisingly, Mr. Martínez, 28, has not given much thought to Social Security's long-term financial problems. But Mr. Martínez - who comes from the state of Oaxaca in southern Mexico and hiked for two days through the desert to enter the United States near Tecate, some 20 miles east of Tijuana - contributes more than most Americans to the solvency of the nation's public retirement system.
Last year, Mr. Martínez paid about $2,000 toward Social Security and $450 for Medicare through payroll taxes withheld from his wages. Yet unlike most Americans, who will receive some form of a public pension in retirement and will be eligible for Medicare as soon as they turn 65, Mr. Martínez is not entitled to benefits.
He belongs to a big club. As the debate over Social Security heats up, the estimated seven million or so illegal immigrant workers in the United States are now providing the system with a subsidy of as much as $7 billion a year.
While it has been evident for years that illegal immigrants pay a variety of taxes, the extent of their contributions to Social Security is striking: the money added up to about 10 percent of last year's surplus - the difference between what the system currently receives in payroll taxes and what it doles out in pension benefits. Moreover, the money paid by illegal workers and their employers is factored into all the Social Security Administration's projections.
Illegal immigration, Marcelo Suárez-Orozco, co-director of immigration studies at New York University, noted sardonically, could provide "the fastest way to shore up the long-term finances of Social Security."
More: http://www.nytimes.com/2005/04/05/business/05immigration.html?position=&ei=5090&en=78c87ac4641dc383&ex=1270353600&pagewanted=print&position=

[shocker1]

While it has been evident for years that illegal immigrants pay a variety of taxes, the extent of their contributions to Social Security is striking: the money added up to about 10 percent of last year's surplus - the difference between what the system currently receives in payroll taxes and what it doles out in pension benefits. Moreover, the money paid by illegal workers and their employers is factored into all the Social Security Administration's projections. I would pay more taxes just to have less illegal people flying under the radar. I feel sorry for no one ignoring the laws of my country.
http://www.ssa.gov/online/ss-5.pdf

IDENTITY: We must see evidence of identity in your legal name. Your legal name will be shown
on the SSN card. Generally, we prefer to see documents issued in the U.S. Documents submitted to
establish identity must show your legal name AND provide biographical information (your date of
birth, age, or parents' names) and/or physical information (photograph, or physical description--
height, eye and hair color, etc.). Additionally, if you send a photo identity document but do not appear
in person, the document must show your biographical information (e.g., your date of birth, age, or
parents' names). To protect your Social Security card and number, identity documents must be of
recent issuance.
• U.S. driver's license; or
• U.S. State-issued non-driver identity card; or
• U.S. passport
WE CANNOT ACCEPT A BIRTH CERTIFICATE, HOSPITAL SOUVENIR BIRTH CERTIFICATE,
SOCIAL SECURITY CARD OR CARD STUB, OR A SOCIAL SECURITY RECORD as evidence
of identity.
IMPORTANT: If you are applying for a card on behalf of someone else, you must provide
evidence that establishes your authority to sign the application on behalf of the person to
whom the card will be issued (e.g., a minor child's birth certificate establishes the authority of a
parent to sign on behalf of the child). In addition, we must see different documents as proof of
identity for both you and the person to whom the card will be issued.
WE MUST SEE YOUR:
If you do not have one of these documents, or cannot get a replacement within 10 days, we may
accept other documents such as a U.S. military identity card, Certificate of Naturalization, or
employee identity card. For young children, we may accept medical records (clinic, doctor, or
hospital) maintained by the medical provider. We may also accept a final adoption decree, or aschool identity card or a school record maintained by the school.If you are not a U.S. citizen, we must see your current U.S. immigration document and your foreign passport with biographical information or photograph.
U.S. CITIZENSHIP: In general, we can accept your U.S. birth certificate or U.S. Passport. Other documents we may accept are a Consular Report of Birth, Certificate of Citizenship, or Certificate of Naturalization.
IMMIGRATION STATUS: We need to see a current document issued to you by the Department of Homeland Security (DHS) showing your immigration status, such as Form I-551, I-94, I-688B, or I-766. We CANNOT accept a receipt showing you applied for the document. If you are not authorized to work in the U.S., we can issue you a Social Security card only if you need the number for a valid nonwork reason. (See HOW TO COMPLETE THIS APPLICATION, Page 2, Item 3.) Your card will be marked to show you cannot work. If you do work, we will notify DHS.

[Ordie]

Employers are not breaking any laws.

Fact of the matter they have no means or resources of validating ID and Social Security cards. They are also under mandate not to discriminate based on ethnicity, race or religion. They are also following the law in reporting all taxible income to the IRS.

If there is a raid, employer loses everything for following the law.

[Calanen]

That's absolutely correct. You can't say, hey, you look like a Mexican where's your greencard or proof of citizenship.

[bryanleu2002]

Employers are not breaking any laws.

Fact of the matter they have no means or resources of validating ID and Social Security cards. They are also under mandate not to discriminate based on ethnicity, race or religion. They are also following the law in reporting all taxible income to the IRS.

If there is a raid, employer loses everything for following the law.

It is illegal to discriminate against applicants and employees based on their national origin or citizenship status, you shouldn't ask about these things . However, you can ask if the worker is legally authorized to work in the United States on a full-time basis.

and if they are not authorized to work in the US, thank them for applying, tell them to have a nice day, and then call ICE.

[Ordie]

It is illegal to discriminate against applicants and employees based on their national origin or citizenship status, you shouldn't ask about these things . However, you can ask if the worker is legally authorized to work in the United States on a full-time basis.

and if they are not authorized to work in the US, thank them for applying, tell them to have a nice day, and then call ICE.

What if they say yes?

[bryanleu2002]

> A retired border patrol agent's letter
>
> Dear Senator Frist:
>
> There is a huge amount of propaganda and myths circulating about illegal
> aliens, particularly illegal Mexican, Salvadorian, Guatemalan and Honduran
> aliens.
>
> 1. Illegal aliens generally do NOT want U.S. citizenship. Americans are
> very vain thinking that everybody in the world wants to be a U.S. citizen.
> Mexicans, and other nationalities want to remain citizens of their home
> countries while obtaining the benefits offered by the United States such
as
> employment, medical care, in-state tuition, government subsidized housing
> and free education for their offspring. Their main attraction is
employment
> and their loyalty usually remains at home. They want benefits earned and
> subsidized by middle class Americans. What illegal aliens want are
benefits
> of American residence without paying the price.
>
> 2. There are no jobs that Americans won't do. Illegal aliens are doing
jobs
> that Americans can't take and still support their families. Illegal aliens
> take low wage jobs, live dozens in a single residence home, using the beds
> 24/7, share expenses and send money to their home country. There are no
> jobs that Americans won't do for a decent wage.
>
> 3. Every person who illegally entered this nation left a home. They are
NOT
> homeless and they are NOT Americans. Some left jobs in their home
> countries. They come to send money to their real home as evidenced by the
> more than 20 billion dollars sent out of the country each year by illegal
> aliens. These illegal aliens knowingly and willfully entered this nation
in
> violation of the law and therefore assumed the risk of detection and
> deportation. Those who brought their alien children assumed the
> responsibility and risk on behalf of their children.
>
> 4. Illegal aliens are NOT critical to the economy. Illegal aliens
> constitute less than 5% of the workforce. However, they reduce wages and
> benefits for lawful U.S. residents.
>
> 5. This is NOT an immigrant nation. There are 280 million native born
> Americans. While it is true that this nation was settled and founded by
> immigrants (legal immigrants), it is also true that there is not a nation
> on this planet that was not settled by immigrants at one time or another.
>
> 6. The United States is welcoming to legal immigrants. Illegal aliens are
> not immigrants by definition. The U.S. accepts more lawful immigrants
every
> year than the rest of the world combined.
>
> 7. There is no such thing as the "Hispanic vote". Hispanics are white,
> brown, black and every shade in between. Hispanics are Republicans,
> Democrats, Anarchists, Communists, Marxists and Independents. The
so-called
> "Hispanic vote" is a myth. Pandering to illegal aliens to get the Hispanic
> vote is a dead end.
>
> 8. Mexico is NOT a friend of the United States. Since 1848 Mexicans have
> resented the United States. During World War I Mexico allowed German Spies
> to operate freely in Mexico to spy on the U.S. During World War II Mexico
> allowed the Axis powers to spy on the U.S. from Mexico. During the Cold
War
> Mexico allowed spies hostile to the U.S. to operate freely. The attack on
> the TwinTowers in 2001 was cheered and applauded all across Mexico. Today
> Mexican school children are taught that the U.S. stole California,
Arizona,
> new Mexico and Texas. If you don't believe it, check out some Mexican
> textbooks written for their schoolchildren.
>
> 9. Although some illegal aliens enter this country for a better life,
there
> are 6 billion people on this planet. At least 1 billion of those live on
> less than one dollar a day. If wanting a better life is a valid excuse to
> break the law and sneak into America, then let's allow those one billion
to
> come to America and we'll turn the USA into a Third World nation
overnight.
> Besides, there are 280 million native born Americans who want a better
> life. I'll bet Bill Gates and Donald Trump want a better life. When will
> the USA lifeboat be full? Since when is wanting a better life a good
reason
> to trash another nation?
>
> 10. There is a labor shortage in this country. This is a lie. There are
> hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of American housewives, senior
> citizens, students, unemployed and underemployed who would gladly take
jobs
> at a decent wage.
>
> 11. It is racist to want secure borders. What is racist about wanting
> secure borders and a secure America? What is racist about not wanting
> people to sneak into America and steal benefits we have set aside for
legal
> aliens, senior citizens, children and other legal residents? What is it
> about race that entitles people to violate our laws, steal identities, and
> take the American Dream without paying the price?
>
> For about four decades American politicians have refused to secure our
> borders and look after the welfare of middle class Americans. These
> politicians have been of both parties. A huge debt to American society has
> resulted. This debt will be satisfied and the interest will be high. There
> has already been riots in the streets by illegal aliens and their
> supporters. There will be more. You, as a politician, have a choice to
> offend the illegal aliens who have stolen into this country and demanded
> the rights afforded to U.S. citizens or to offend those of us who are
> stakeholders in this country. The interest will be steep either way. There
> will be civil unrest. There will be a reckoning. Do you have the courage
to
> do what is right for America? Or, will you bow to the wants and needs of
> those who don't even have the right to remain here?
>
> There will be a reckoning. It will come in November of this year, again in
> 2008 and yet again in 2010.
>
> We will not allow America to be stolen by third world agitators and
> thieves.
>
> David J. Stoddard
> U.S. Border Patrol (RET)
> Hereford, Arizona

[bryanleu2002]

What if they say yes?


What if they say yes! good question. our laws suck sometimes for americans and benifit illegals more . Sometimes i think it was destroyed by design. whichever way you look at it ,
I am personally affected by this illegal immigration problem,

Example -
recently i lost my one of my jobs (construction) to a car full of migrants suposedly from Southern California, (iam in washington state)none spoke english, they stayed in a motel for 3days (4 of them). and thier worked sucked. which was why i was there , "to fix thier mistakes" I cant prove that they were illegal, because they had left town. I should have gotten the full job, instead i got the leftovers. This is directly effecting me and my family. and is becomming more and more common. and i will fight it to the end.

Here ,there ,everywhere, i ,and, we ,will not stop.

A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject.
-sir Winston Churchill

British politician (1874 - 1965)

[shocker1]

What if they say yes?
I agree we have a loop hole here but when I hire anybody they get a background check, document check and drug test. My insurance would not allow such nonsense, they must be bonded for driving dealer inventory. I would go for a National ID. Why some oppose such a thing I don't know.

[Ordie]

What if they say yes! good question. our laws suck sometimes for americans and benifit illegals more . Sometimes i think it was destroyed by design. whichever way you look at it ,
I am personally affected by this illegal immigration problem,

Example -
recently i lost my one of my jobs (construction) to a car full of migrants suposedly from Southern California, (iam in washington state)none spoke english, they stayed in a motel for 3days (4 of them). and thier worked sucked. which was why i was there , "to fix thier mistakes" I cant prove that they were illegal, because they had left town. I should have gotten the full job, instead i got the leftovers. This is directly effecting me and my family. and is becomming more and more common. and i will fight it to the end.


Please accept my sincere regrets about your situation.

The construction business is highly competitive with each firm/company trying to get a slice of the marketshare while trying to make a profit. Since we live in an "Walmart" era, clients are conditioned to opt for lower bids over quality. Therefore businesses who get the jobs are big construction projects with union labor or the one's hiring day laborers on medium to small projects. The largest sector in hiring undocumented workers are private households. Many are your "do it your self weekend contractors" who shop at Home Depot swing by at the day laborers, pay cash and job is done.

I myself will always pay more for a licensed contractor because I want the job done right. Eventhough I assembled bombs in the Navy, I'm scared sh..less about electricity. I usually call an electrician in the yellow pages.

There should be an education and marketing effort on behalf of the industry to promote licenced contractors. Moreover local municipalities must take a pro-active approach on permits and enforcement.

[Ordie]

I agree we have a loop hole here but when I hire anybody they get a background check, document check and drug test. My insurance would not allow such nonsense, they must be bonded for driving dealer inventory. I would go for a National ID. Why some oppose such a thing I don't know.

Yes perhaps that is the solution.

But an unholy alliance of Libertarians, Orthodox Conservatives, and Leftist may band together oppose it. Very much in the same manner as the Eminant Domain issue banded these groups together oppose it.

Americans are usually fearful of big government.

[bryanleu2002]

Yes perhaps that is the solution.

But an unholy alliance of Libertarians, Orthodox Conservatives, and Leftist may band together oppose it. Very much in the same manner as the Eminant Domain issue banded these groups together oppose it.

Americans are usually fearful of big government.

This "Real ID" (no offense shocker 1) card is not the solution, and i dont know what you mean by "unholy alliance" this hole issue of illegal immigration is about personal responsibility, -if you got a problem on your Private property, you fix it yourself, or ask for help. You do not just take it upon your own accord , and go up the house on the hill and live off someone elses "good fortune" and what they have justly aquired, thru hard work , time, and ,talents.

I have problems in my country (USA) and i am staying and am working very hard to fix those problems.

I suggest to anyone who has conviction in thier heart that want's to come here to the USA Illegally , "Stay where you are and fix your own problems"
this is Personal responsibility for you and your country.

Bryan
2MCDC

[shocker1]

This "Real ID" (no offense shocker 1) card is not the solution,
It is not the solution that is true. However it would make my responsibility to abide by the FEA much easier. With a FREE verification resource paid for by my 30+% taxes.

[bryanleu2002]

It is not the solution that is true. However it would make my responsibility to abide by the FEA much easier. With a FREE verification resource paid for by my 30+% taxes.

30 percent tax!! Im moving, Where are you?

[shocker1]

30 percent tax!! Im moving, Where are you?
Oh yeah, that does not include state income, state and county inventory tax, state unemployment. The Feds let me deduct a little of that amount from them. Don't forget emission stickers!

[bryanleu2002]

Oh yeah, that does not include state income, state inventory, state unemployment. The Feds let me deduct a little of that amount from them.


I hear ya, More like 50 ,too 51 Percent "Here", when do we say enough is enough? at 60 percent? at 80 percent? at 99.99999999 percent? and then what?

[shocker1]

I hear ya, More like 50 ,too 51 Percent "Here", when do we say enough is enough? at 60 percent? at 80 percent? at 99.99999999 percent? and then what?
If I added up the govermental cost for me to do business it would be 50 to 60 %. Leaving all that other stuff out so I can have that 30% figure makes me feel a little better until the next quarter. I left out SSI and FICA also, big bills them guys. Before you know it I am the one holding the 30%

[Lefty]

Real way to stop this is to research and go after companies who hire illegals. You can try stop two guys running across a thousand mile wide piece of border, you will probably fail simply because of distance, but you can sure as hell stop businesses, especially chains and coorporations from hiring illegals. If you remove the reason they are coming, they will not come, foil of the "If you build it, they will come" theory.

The reason politicians can't get a grip on this fact is A) The cost to investigate the validity of every SSN entered into every private business (major 1st Amendment problem for both dems and righties there) would be extreme, but making sure businesses self-police would be just as hard, and B) our spineless politicians want reelected and understand that some of their major supporters and voters, like this tax free labor they can have.