UK sailors captured at gunpoint

[spectre17]

http://www.tiscali.co.uk/news/newswire.php/news/reuters/2007/03/23/topnews/34incident34-reported-in-gulf-waterway.html&template=/news/feeds/story_template.html

[Snoshi]

Need more info on that.. Sounds weird. But if its true that Iran seized US or British troops.. Then...

[enfant_terrible]

Gulf of Tonkin BS anyone? :roll:

[Kitsune]

Funny. The Tonkin incident came to my mind as well. Two fools, one thought. :grin:

[muttbutt]

It may be slightly harder these days to make another GOT incident, too much information flying around, this isn't the 60's anymore....not saying impossible, just let's wait and see how this plays out

[muttbutt]

The British MOD has confirmed 15 British personel are being held by Iran

[Snoshi]

Pentagon says Iran seizes up to 15 British troops in Persian Gulf

Published: 03.23.07, 14:15 / Israel News

The Iranian navy detained up to 15 British troops Friday in the Persian Gulf, a Pentagon official said.



The Britons were in two inflatable boats from the frigate H.M.S. Cornwall during a routine smuggling investigation, said the official, who spoke on condition on anonymity because he was not authorized to speak about the incident. (AP)



wtf just happened..

[Jeremiah]

"Incident" reported in Gulf waterway


BASRA, Iraq (Reuters) - British forces said on Friday there had been "an incident" in the northern Gulf after an Iraqi fisherman reported seeing up to seven British or American military personnel being seized by an Iranian ship.

"There has been an incident somewhere in the north of the Persian Gulf," British military spokesman Major David Gell said in the southern Iraqi city of Basra, without elaborating.

He said he did not know whether any British or American servicemen were involved.
The fisherman said the incident took place early on Friday in the Shatt al-Arab waterway that marks the southern stretch of Iraq's border with Iran. His account could not be immediately confirmed.

Iranian Foreign Ministry officials were unavailable for comment,

The fisherman, who asked not be named, said six or seven foreign military personnel were on two small boats that stopped to check Iranian ships in the Siban area of the waterway, near the al-Faw peninsula that leads into the northern Gulf.

When they boarded one ship, at least two Iranian vessels appeared on the scene and the military personnel were detained. There was no sign of any violent confrontation he said.

He said the merchant ships had stopped in a narrow area of the waterway where smaller boats normally pull alongside to take on board goods. The fisherman said British and American forces patrolled the area and frequently searched the ships.

Earlier, an Iraqi sailor on a merchant ship told Reuters he had witnessed the incident but later said he had only heard about it.

Iraq and Iran have a long history of disputes along the waterway. Iran briefly seized three British naval patrol boats in the area in June 2004.

In January 2006, the Iranian coastguard stopped three Iraqi vessels Tehran said had crossed into Iranian waters, prompting Iraqi officials to accuse Iran of taking hostage nine Iraqis working on the vessels.



uk.news.yahoo.com . . .

[muttbutt]

http://news.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,30100-1257281,00.html

[TheMacedonian]

http://news.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,30100-1257281,00.html


UK sailors captured at gunpoint

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/40967000/jpg/_40967664_breaking_news_203.jpg
Fifteen British Navy personnel have been captured at gunpoint by Iranian forces, the Ministry of Defence says.
The men were seized when they boarded a boat in the Gulf, off the coast of Iraq, which they suspected was smuggling cars.
The Royal Navy said it was doing everything it could to secure the release of the sailors and marines who are based on HMS Cornwall.
They were said to be carrying out a routine patrol in Iraqi waters. It is understood they are safe and well. Foreign Secretary Margaret Beckett has summoned the Iranian ambassador to the Foreign and Commonwealth Office, in an attempt to get the sailors and marines released as quickly as possible.

[Snoshi]

Everything will depend on how Iran will react.. If they will release these sailors fast then it will be a minor incident.. But if they wont then i think it may end up bad.

Anyone can change the topic's name?

[IsraDani]

Great move by Iran, just like light up a cigarette in a fuel storage. I hope they'll relase them soon or the situation could escalate, we all know that also a little accident there can cause serious troubles.

[Redmen]

It is understood they are safe and well.

So they are free now or still in Iranian hands?

[Snoshi]

So they are free now or still in Iranian hands?

In Iranian hands.. I dont understand what the **** was Iran thinking.. Sezing British troops in neutral waters...

[kazbitch]

hmmmmm not good. Hope they realise what could happen if they d1ck around and send the guys back a.s.a.p!

[fargo]

My thoughts are with the families.

Iran is getting more and more ballsy as time goes by, I can't help but feel they are going to need a slap at somestage. And that will be ugly for all involved.

[kazbitch]

oh and another thing, what the hell was HMS Cornwall doing during all of this??

[Digital Marine]

I hope they'll be sensible and release the Sailors.

But, what's not clear to me is whether they were captured by Iranian military or by criminals?

[variable]

Won't the Brits try to get em back? I mean it's not like the Cornwall is a fish troller...

[Snoshi]

Won't the Brits try to get em back? I mean it's not like the Cornwall is a fish troller...

I dont get it either... Brits did nothing while Iranian captured 15 troops...

Soon you will hear a statement from Iran saying that they crossed into the Iranian waters and they were spying at the super new and technologically advanced Iranian submarine that is featured in the war games.

[Zarathustra]

The war is near... uh

[Macs.]

The war is near... uh

Over such a "little" incident ? Forget it.

[Redmen]

oh and another thing, what the hell was HMS Cornwall doing during all of this??

The incident happened on a river or its delta (Shatt al-Arab), right so i dont think that a frigate could have helped in the shallow waters.

[theholeinthedonut]

oh and another thing, what the hell was HMS Cornwall doing during all of this??


I might be wrong on this?......
But isn't there a slight chance that the situation at hand was slightly different then those depicted in "Pirates of the carribean"?

Seriously, alltough many people speculate a lot about coaliton forces trying to provoke an incident with the iranians, ROE are quite strict for the naval forces out there. Maybe they had no timke to react in time....? Maybe the whole thing occured in shallow waters and HMS Cornwall had to wait outside the shoals...? Anyhow, once the Iranians had their hands on the sailors it was most probably impossible to do anything. All guessing and speculating!
If speculating I would rather tend to see the reaction of the Captain of HMS Cornwall as an professional de-escalation.
Anyhow there's not much sense in speculating because in fact we know zilch about what really happened.

[Daniel San]

Not an act of war but it isn't going to calm down the existing tensions. I hope someone cool-headed will return the sailors ASAP.

I wonder what Iran's political reaction to this will be. On a diplomatic scale it might even be more important than the actual incident.

[Scottie]

Another article from BBC News.

source (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/6484279.stm)




http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/41144000/jpg/_41144422_hms_cornwall203other.jpg The sailors and marines are from HMS Cornwall

Fifteen British Navy personnel have been captured at gunpoint by Iranian forces, the Ministry of Defence says. The men were seized at 1030 local time when they boarded a boat in the Gulf, off the coast of Iraq, which they suspected was smuggling cars.
The Royal Navy said it was doing everything it could to secure the release of the sailors and marines who are based on HMS Cornwall.
They were said to be carrying out a routine patrol in Iraqi waters.
The Ministry of Defence said: "The group boarding party had completed a successful inspection of a merchant ship when they and their two boats were surrounded and escorted by Iranian vessels into Iranian territorial waters.
"We are urgently pursuing this matter with the Iranian authorities at the highest level."
http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/shared/img/o.gif HMS CORNWALL
Multi-national force flagship in the North Arabian Gulf
Type 22 frigate
Crew: 250 (Max 301)
Length: 148.1m / 485.9ft
Speed: 30 knots

Source: Royal Navy

It is understood the men being held are safe and well.
Foreign Secretary Margaret Beckett has summoned the Iranian ambassador to the Foreign and Commonwealth Office, in an attempt to get the sailors and marines released as quickly as possible.
In 2004, Iran detained eight British servicemen for three days after they allegedly strayed over the maritime border.
The UK claimed the men were "forcibly escorted" into Iranian territorial waters.

[alfigel]

Funny. The Tonkin incident came to my mind as well. Two fools, one thought. :grin:

Make it three.

[Daniel San]

Source: Defence News MOD (http://www.mod.uk/DefenceInternet/DefenceNews/MilitaryOperations/15BritishPersonnelSeizedByIranianNavy.htm)

15 British Personnel seized by Iranian Navy

23 Mar 07

15 British naval personnel, have been seized by Iranian naval vessels today, 23 March 2007.

The incident took place at approximately 1030 Iraqi time.

The British Personnel were engaged in routine boarding operations of merchant shipping in Iraqi territorial waters in support of UNSCR 1723 and the government of Iraq.

The UK boarding party had completed a successful inspection of a merchant ship when they and their two boats were surrounded and escorted by Iranian vessels into Iranian territorial waters.
We are urgently pursuing this matter with the Iranian authorities at the highest level and on the instructions of the Foreign Secretary, the Iranian ambassador has been summoned to the Foreign Office.
The British Government is demanding the immediate and safe return of our people and equipment.
We are currently in the process of informing next-of-kin and would strongly urge the privacy of all families involved to be respected at what will be an extremely difficult time.
Any speculation about what might happen or the way our people may be treated could be genuinely dangerous and we would urge refrain from such speculation whilst the Government conducts its urgent discussions with the Iranian authorities.

[IDF_TANKER]

Make it three.

I actually thought about Gleiwitz incident, but you can make it four.:)

[Zerodivider]

Just a bit of show of force, it happened before...
http://news.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,30100-13135982,00.html


I'm not really surprised considering that the Coalition Forces arrested Iranian diplomats a while ago, so it's just a tit-for-tat...

[1911-a1]

I hope SAS gets to see some action in iran nowp-)

[Snoshi]

Just a bit of show of force, it happened before...
http://news.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,30100-13135982,00.html


I'm not really surprised considering that the Coalition Forces arrested Iranian diplomats a while ago, so it's just a tit-for-tat...

Yeah... Show of force..

It cant even be compared to the incident above and to "diplomats"..

These troops were captured in Iraqi waters.. Thats called kidnapping.

[Macs.]

I hope SAS gets to see some action in iran nowp-)

Most likely this will be solved by the DCS.

Diplomatic Commando Service.

[IDF_TANKER]

I hope SAS gets to see some action in iran nowp-)

Armed assault on the Iranian soil - I would say it is a sure way to start a war...

[annihilation]

ONDON - Iranian naval vessels seized 15 British sailors in Iraqi waters on Friday, the Ministry of Defense said. ADVERTISEMENT

The British Navy personnel were "engaged in routine boarding operations of merchant shipping in Iraqi territorial waters," and had completed their inspection of a merchant ship when they were accosted by Iranian vessels, the ministry said.
"We are urgently pursuing this matter with the Iranian authorities at the highest level and ... the Iranian ambassador has been summoned to the Foreign Office," the ministry said.
A Pentagon (http://search.news.yahoo.com/search/news/?p=Pentagon) official said the Britons were in two inflatable boats from the frigate H.M.S. Cornwall during a routine smuggling investigation, said the official, who spoke on condition on anonymity because he was not authorized to speak about the incident.
He said the confrontation happened as the British contingent was traveling along the boundary of territorial waters between Iran (http://search.news.yahoo.com/search/news/?p=Iran) and Iraq (http://search.news.yahoo.com/search/news/?p=Iraq). They were detained by the Revolutionary Guard's navy, he said.
A fisherman who said he was with a group of Iraqis from the southern city of Basra fishing in Iraqi waters in the northern area of the Gulf said he saw the Iranian seizure. The fisherman declined to be identified because of security concerns.
"Two boats, each with a crew of six to eight multinational forces, were searching Iraqi and Iranian boats Friday morning in Ras al-Beesha area in the northern entrance of the Arab Gulf, but big Iranian boats came and took the two boats with their crews to the Iranian waters."
The Britain government said it had demanded "the immediate and safe return of our people and equipment."

[Scottie]

In a few days it will be sorted... ..Mafi Mushkila

[Zarathustra]

What will Iran do ? Blackmail ? Execute them ?

[Scottie]

What will Iran do ? Blackmail ? Execute them ?

I'm sure it's just another show of 'muscle and authority'...

[Zerodivider]

Yeah... Show of force..

It cant even be compared to the incident above and to "diplomats"..

These troops were captured in Iraqi waters.. Thats called kidnapping.


It is show of force mate, pretty much along the lines of "you p*ssed us off, we'll do the same to you..."

[annihilation]

What will Iran do ? Blackmail ? Execute them ?

Please and give Bush an excuse to lay waste to Iran? I hope they are returned safely and soon. As this will just escalate the situation worse.

[xepharo]

I agree too.. I guess that's their way of saying: Hi, now I'm pissing you off, how you like it?

freaking morons, better release those royal marines asap.

[Malleus]

Yeah... Show of force..

It cant even be compared to the incident above and to "diplomats"..

These troops were captured in Iraqi waters.. Thats called kidnapping.

Wait, weren't the Iranian diplomats taken from the Embassy? I don't remember, but an Iranian Embassy was raided in Iraq some time ago - and embassy's are foreign territory, so this action is probably really just "tit-for-tat"...

[Snoshi]

Wait, weren't the Iranian diplomats taken from the Embassy? I don't remember, but an Iranian Embassy was raided in Iraq some time ago - and embassy's are foreign territory, so this action is probably really just "tit-for-tat"...

Iranian and Iraqi officials said the building was an Iranian consulate and the detainees its employees.

The US military said it was still investigating, but that the building did not have diplomatic status.
Not really

[Malleus]

Not really

Oh, missed that part ... never mind then...

[tyovan4]

This could end up being very bad for Iran..

[Freedom-Fries]

wtf just happened.. yes, what's going on ?

[budgie]

I hope SAS gets to see some action in iran nowp-)

Not likely: this is first and foremost a diplomatic incident. The Iranians are just trying to assert their presence in the area. They'll hold the men for anywhere between two and forteen days, during which both sides will blame the other, come to a deal, and the soldiers will be released after everyone feels their point has been made.

[Royal]

These troops were captured in Iraqi waters.. Thats called kidnapping.

So were the ones captured in June 2004.

[IDF-Godzilla]

"Mortal Combat shout": Fight!

[MJTribe]

The president of iran is to address the UN this weekend in New York. Maybe we should keep him and his crew till this gets resolved:fork:

[-=P=-]

I'd say no-thing will happen.

Somthing similar happend in 2004 or so and they were released too.

Iran will say that they entered Iranian waters and Brits will say that they didn't.

Max. one week.

PS: appearently somepeople are so underaged that they didn't notice the nearly same incident only few years ago ;)

[Snoshi]

I'd say no-thing will happen.

Somthing similar happend in 2004 or so and they were released too.

Iran will say that they entered Iranian waters and Brits will say that they didn't.

Max. one week.

2004 and 2007 is little different.. With today's tensions this can spillover

[-=P=-]

@Snoshi

No, for Iran and the UK the situation is still the same.

[Alex-L]

first, to the ones saying this is a GOT incident, I hope moderators are laying down red cards for flaim bait. grow up, move on

to follow, i hope all turns out well and their safe return.

[seraosha]

Why are they doing this crap?
:bash:

[Royal]

first, to the ones saying this is a GOT incident, I hope moderators are laying down red cards for flaim bait. grow up, move on.

What is a GOT incident?

A moderator.

[Snoshi]

Why are they doing this crap?
:bash:

Probably because of the sanctions, but i dont see how this will help them...

[LazyLob]

Probably were kidnapped as they were about to confiscate the local Iranian commander’s illegal car shipment.

[InetWarrior]

What is a GOT incident?

A moderator.


Do not ask, better lay those red cards everywhere... :)



Just joking. I do not know what it is but talking about that must be a serious crime to bother our beloved mods.

I better shut up now...

[IsraDani]

Why are they doing this crap?
:bash:

Because their leadership is not acting fully rational.
We know it and this is the scary point.

[Thor]

Well, the window of opportunity is closing in for an attack on Iran. Soon it will be just too close to next year's presidential election.

And having in mind that Iran has spread out the nuclear research facilities on 10-12 locations all over the country I don't see how Israel would be able to carry out such an attack.

[phoilme]

Iran can do what they want. Even if this was not in Iraqi or international waters, what is the west going to do? Nothing but diplomatic talks. Those fellas may spend the rest of their days in Iran and nothing will be done other than "let's talk" policy. The Brits are weary of conflict at this point and the same media that has worn down any resolve in the public will also play this as "best handled by mature methods." I.e., hugs, not guns.
It's bizzaro world people. Civil War II in USA, pick a side!

[LazyLob]

At 14:30 Margaret Beckett is going to savage the Iranian ambassador. He’ll come out of the F.O. with a set of false teeth stuck in his arse.

[variable]

Thor, what point are you trying to make? That Israel and the US have staged this to have a reason to launch an attack? :D

[a_very_ex_STAB]

At 14:30 Margaret Beckett is going to savage the Iranian ambassador. He’ll come out of the F.O. with a set of false teeth stuck in his arse.

Now that conjured up some very unpleasant imagery - and I wasn't talking about the ambassador's arse.

Margaret Beckett - my god I wouldn't even use yours on her.

[dutch508]

the record for Iranian kidnapping stands at 444 days. Wonder if they'll go for a new record.

[ya2]

i dont understand why we dont hear news about jets bombing teheran already.

[IDF_TANKER]

Thor, what point are you trying to make? That Israel and the US have staged this to have a reason to launch an attack? :D

No, but we just might use this opportunity. I mean, If Thor thought about it and I thought about it, I can imagine that a few people in the high places could get this idea as well.p-)

[LazyLob]

Now that conjured up some very unpleasant imagery - and I wasn't talking about the ambassador's arse.

Margaret Beckett - my god I wouldn't even use yours on her.

Mine has got built in floss.

[Zarathustra]

the record for Iranian kidnapping stands at 444 days. Wonder if they'll go for a new record.

This is not going to last that long this time.

[GiladS]

Having one of their top generals defect to the West must have driven them crazy.

[Sabre]

Nowt'll come of this. It's just Admena-dinner-jacket's way of sticking two fingers up at the west. It happened before in 2004 and everyone was released safely. Undoubtedly, Iran's border troops will be the focus of attention from their military and political leadership at the moment. It wouldn't suprise me if there was a general order issued to take every opportunity to fvck about with British and American troops. The shat al arab provides the ideal location for 'border incursions' as the geography is ill defined. It is easy for Iran to capture a small boat patrol, tell the UK off for 'crossing into its territory', we say 'we didn't, you crossed the border', the west believes us, the middle east believes Iran, Iran looks strong!!!1111one toeveryone they care about, everyone goes home for a mug of tea and egg banjos.

However, if they do try anything silly...

[Bacilluspolymyxa]

Iran can do what they want. Even if this was not in Iraqi or international waters, what is the west going to do? Nothing but diplomatic talks. Those fellas may spend the rest of their days in Iran and nothing will be done other than "let's talk" policy. The Brits are weary of conflict at this point and the same media that has worn down any resolve in the public will also play this as "best handled by mature methods." I.e., hugs, not guns.
It's bizzaro world people. Civil War II in USA, pick a side!The UK media will not approach this with a hugs and cuddles attitude and there is usually intensive coverage of such events. The British public on the left, centre and right did not want to commit to Iraq but our elected government did we are not so sick of conflict but the sick of the fact that public opinion was ignored. You will find our resolve for intervention and conflict to be greater than the average American of today and many on the other side of the pond seem to forget that we lived with terror on a day to day basis for 20 years without the soul searching and wailing of “why do they hate us so”.

[Oxley]

This crap has happened a lot since 2003. With regards to water disputes. However it is interesting to see the Iranians have grown the balls to act on it. I do hope they come back safe though, Iran is poking the hornets nest.

[usa320]

funny, i just read a report yesterday that suggested the Iranian military may attempt to kidnap US personel in Iraq in response for the General defecting.

[Invisigoth]

Let's not forget the German guy who got screwed by the Iranians for allegedly "spying". He just got released after he spent 14 months in that sh**hole for drifting off with his fishing boat...

[Bacilluspolymyxa]

What would happen to an undocumented Iranian if he drifted into US waters.

[Alex-L]

What is a GOT incident?

A moderator.

PM'ed you.

[dutch508]

What would happen to an undocumented Iranian if he drifted into US waters.

Well, that would be one hell of a nap...

Undocumented Cubans picked up in American waters are sent back to Cuba. I would think the same applies to a defecting Iranian in a fishing boat.

[saigonsmuggler]

considering that this has already happened in 2004, why didn't the Navy (both British and American) employ more resources at this waterway to prevent this reoccurrence? If the waters are deep enough for merchant ships, it's should be deep enough for larger naval vessels.

Maybe someone knowlegeable with this water can chime in.

[John_J]

How can several Iranian Vessels get close to the British without being detected??

[Alex-L]

How can several Iranian Vessels get close to the British without being detected??

i doubt they wernt detected, the Brits probably were "on guard" but within Iraqi waters so the threat level wasnt very very high

[JoaMei]

Maybe they were too far away from their Mothership. That british Frigate could not act without endangering the boarding team.

[Oxley]

i doubt they wernt detected, the Brits probably were "on guard" but within Iraqi waters so the threat level wasnt very very high

No that cant happen,

The only way I can see this is happening is that it is a double boarding party that has been taken. Usually a double boarding party is 12 men, not including the coxswain and bowman of each boat. I am not sure if the bowman is actually part of the party or not, I cannot remember.

[martinexsquaddie]

probably couple of weeks and they get handed back any other idea and things could go badly for iran

[phoilme]

This incident is getting little to zero coverage by the American media. Reverse the roles and the media's approach would be extraordinary.

[IsraDani]

This incident is getting little to zero coverage by the American media. Reverse the roles and the media's approach would be extraordinary.

so true...

[Alex-L]

what are yall talking about its on foxnews and cnn, cnn has been reporting on it a few times that ive walked into our breakroom

[Rotorhead]

Here we go again.

[Group9]

What would happen to an undocumented Iranian if he drifted into US waters.

Not much, unfortunately.

[Ironlung]

This incident is getting little to zero coverage by the American media. Reverse the roles and the media's approach would be extraordinary. what news are you watching? it is all over Yahoo,CNN, Foxnews, TV. Stop with the liberal bullsh!t

[Alex-L]

what news are you watching? it is all over Yahoo,CNN, Foxnews, TV. Stop with the liberal bullsh!t

agreed 100%

[seruriermarshal]

This incident is getting little to zero coverage by the American media. Reverse the roles and the media's approach would be extraordinary.

Poor dude , stop lie to forum

[Fee Fi Fo Fum]

Government demands immediate and safe return of 15 British Personnel seized by Iranian Navy



http://www.mod.uk/DefenceInternet/Templates/GenerateThumbnail.aspx?imageURL=/NR/rdonlyres/BE3D4158-0F28-414A-BCC4-C5E4A0550A54/0/Cornwall2.jpg&maxSize=210 (http://www.mod.uk/NR/rdonlyres/BE3D4158-0F28-414A-BCC4-C5E4A0550A54/0/Cornwall2.jpg)
HMS Cornwall in the Gulf

The incident took place at approximately 1030 Iraqi time.

The British Personnel were engaged in routine boarding operations of merchant shipping in Iraqi territorial waters in support of UNSCR 1723 and the government of Iraq.

Operating from HMS Cornwall, the UK boarding party had completed a successful inspection of a merchant ship when they and their two boats were surrounded and escorted by Iranian vessels into Iranian territorial waters.
We are urgently pursuing this matter with the Iranian authorities at the highest level and on the instructions of the Foreign Secretary, the Iranian ambassador has been summoned to the Foreign Office.
The British Government is demanding the immediate and safe return of our people and equipment.
The MOD is currently in the process of informing the next-of-kin of the 15 personnel and would strongly urge the privacy of all families involved to be respected at what will be an extremely difficult time.

Any speculation about what might happen or the way our people may be treated could be genuinely dangerous, and the MOD urges media to refrain from such speculation whilst the Government conducts its urgent discussions with the Iranian authorities.



http://www.mod.uk/DefenceInternet/DefenceNews/MilitaryOperations/GovernmentDemandsImmediateAndSafeReturnOf15BritishPersonnelSeizedByIranianNavy.htm

[andrew_rsa]

mm hope they get home safely! its one hell of a way to start a war..

[Kippari]

Is there any progress? I heard that there was a brief conversation already, but so far it seems nothing else has come out.

[BearInBunnySuit]

Best wishes to the UK soldiers and their family. I hope they are released soon.

[HOLLiS]

Best wishes to the UK soldiers and their family. I hope they are released soon.

2X here too,

[jameshr4]

I hope they are returned soon. Best wishes to those involved and their families.

[Thor]

To be used as human shields at nuclear research sites?


Can't rule that one out.

[Fade]

I can't believe what a brazen act this was, grabbing 15 well-armed men in broad daylight. My thoughts are with the families of these gentlemen.

[yiorgo]

WTF..........comp issues sorry fellas

[yiorgo]

blah...........................................

[yiorgo]

What would happen to an undocumented Iranian if he drifted into US waters.......




we would probably give them a credit card and welcome them in......

[usa320]

i do believe ROE in the persian gulf should be adjusted appropriately.

[Oxley]

i do believe ROE in the persian gulf should be adjusted appropriately.

Please do explain mate. The ROE for Navy in the Persian gulf have been the same since the invasion. This is the first incident.

You want boarding parties to shoot at everything they see? A 12 many boarding party may carry upwards of... 12x 9mm Browning HP Handguns and 2 Shotguns for the security crew.
How the hell is that going to work against an Iranian speedboat armed with Machine guns and RPG?

[usa320]

clearly not, but perhaps they would be able to provide more cover for boarding parties, either from the vessel of origin or from the air to make sure things like this dont happen... Perhaps if there were aircraft overhead, the Iranians would have been detered from doing such a thing. Not necessarily to shoot at anyone, but more or less as a show of force.

[Spare MolliG]

There was a Lynx in the air. It spotted the boats en-route to Iran.

[Oxley]

clearly not, but perhaps they would be able to provide more cover for boarding parties, either from the vessel of origin or from the air to make sure things like this dont happen... Perhaps if there were aircraft overhead, the Iranians would have been detered from doing such a thing. Not necessarily to shoot at anyone, but more or less as a show of force.

Mate a frigate carries 1 Helo, they will not dispatch their only helo for 1 boarding operation when they carry out about 25 a day (depending on how busy they are/how many parties are onboard) I can see what you are saying, but its just not how they operate.

[C.MAXIMUS]

President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad in an exclusive interview with France Channel 2 TV network said, " We are not worried about US military attack."
The president expounded on Iran's viewpoints and dismissed West's accusation on Iran's efforts to access nuclear weapon.
Ahmadinejad said, " Atomic weapons cannot bring victory. This is why Israel could not avoid defeat in Lebanon."
Responding to a question concerning Iran's worry about the US military attack, the president said, "We are not worried because of two reasons. First, the situation for doing it is not suitable in the region. Second, there are still wise people in the US who do not allow such a stupid behavior happen."
Ahmadinejad said he would present new proposals concerning Iran's nuclear program to the UN Security Council adding the US and UK stances on Iran's nuclear dossier in the Security Council is not legal.
He said Iran's enrichment of uranium is a legal issue, but the US and UK stances in the Security Council are not.
Ahmadinejad said the request by the UNSC permanent members plus Germany concerning suspension of uranium enrichment by Iran is illegal adding, "We are not after an atomic bomb because it is not useful and our religion does not allow us to have it."


http://www2.irna.ir/en/news/view/line-203/0703235381182838.htm

[callous]

The president of iran is to address the UN this weekend in New York. Maybe we should keep him and his crew till this gets resolved:fork:


I like this idea.

[usa320]

I like this idea.

as well...

perhaps he should have some trouble with his papers?

[Gauntlet]

Iran is trying to get the west to fire the shot. They keep doing this by supporting insurgents and scaring British sailors. This isn't the first time the British and Iranians clashed in the Gulf.

By the US or Britian firing the first shot, Ahmadinejad can point out the "aggressive" nature of the evil west, thus fueling his Anti-American political agenda

[Lt.Havoc]

Now, thats some ****ed up thing. Hope the Iranians arent so stupid to do anything with the 15 British Marines, otherwise the **** could hit the fan and that very fast. I just hope this isnt the beginning of something bigger.....

[artinist]

this story just doesn't make a lot of sense

why wouldn't the brits see the other ships appraching from a distance and assume they are under some sort of attack, and call for backup or take a defensive approache, maybe fire warning shots, etc. etc.

is it another case of incompetence like the onse we heard about the chineese sub tailing the battle group?

seems like we don't have all of the facts.

[socom6]

Well this will have to be handled diplomatically. Another muscle flexing excercise by the Iranians, they have announced naval war games very recently, now they go do this foolish act to show they are tough.

One thing is for sure the British Govt will deal with this in their own way and the Iranians will release them as they make their "point" clear. Of course if the sailors are paraded in public as a propaganda stunt and mistreated in anyway the Royal Navy, British Forces, and RAF are ready.

[N-G-F-O]

Incompetence how exactly, and on whose part?

[jameshr4]

Lets not saying people were incompetent until we know the facts shall we.

[artinist]

"
The sailors and Marines had completed a successful inspection of one ship, reportedly a dhow, when the group and their two boats were surrounded.
They were then escorted by Iranian vessels into its territorial waters."


lets see. did the iranians have stealth ships. all of a sudden they were surrounded???

why would they let anyone escort them anyway. they should have said go frakk your selves. we will instead escort you back. what were they going to do. shot the brits?

[Royal]

what were they going to do. shot the brits?

Leave the bone comments on ROE to those who know what they're talking about.

[N-G-F-O]

So a group of british sailors accompanied by maybe 4-6 FPGRM would have came up trumps against iranian naval vessels would they?
Ever think that they wouldn't want to escalate the problem, and that they wouldn't have been able to react under the specific ROE set aside for boarding ops?
I served on Cornwall for 4 years, know many of the crew and have a good idea who would have been nabbed, i take EXTREME offence at any suggestion of incompetence, it a good ship with a good crew. Wind your neck in dick-head.

[pascalywood]

hope the brits are released soon

[Ghelp]

This isn't the first time British sailors have been taken by Iran.Last time they where released after three days.

[variable]

Getting them out by force isn't an option, right?

I mean it's just a matter of definition. Have they been arrested or kidnapped?

[Limeyfellow]

The same thing happened a couple of years ago when they crossed into Iranian waters and they were detained for a few days. Same will happen again with any luck. These things happen and they will be debriefed and released.

Not alot the sailors could have done against a fully armed Iranian naval vessel, though alot of it depends on where exactly they were when spotted.

[Alex-L]

Getting them out by force isn't an option, right?

I mean it's just a matter of definition. Have they been arrested or kidnapped?

Iran will say arrested for coming into Iranian waters, therefor a show of force by the Brits would be deemeds a war-time action.

Now if Iran starts showing the Brits as being abused, or puts them on trial and trys to execute them, i have no doubt the UK will be in there rather quickly.

In addition, I think this is none of that, I think the Iranians possibly made a mistake, or they are just showing force, a few days they will be back home.

[Redmen]

Didnt the revolutionary guard commander after a bunch of his officers disappeared say that they will start kidnapping coalition soldiers/officers in a Rev. guard newspaper?
I guess they will demand that their officers are returned or something along those lines.
And if its true that they were taken from Iraq teritorial waters the situation is similar to what Hezbollah did in Israel.
Ohh and is it normal that the revolutionary guard patrols the waters of Iran (doesnt Iran have a capeable Navy).

[Legia]

Iran will say arrested for coming into Iranian waters, therefor a show of force by the Brits would be deemeds a war-time action.

Now if Iran starts showing the Brits as being abused, or puts them on trial and trys to execute them, i have no doubt the UK will be in there rather quickly.

In addition, I think this is none of that, I think the Iranians possibly made a mistake, or they are just showing force, a few days they will be back home.

Yeah it think you are right. Still I get all these medieval feelings inside of me :fork: !!

[Snoshi]

A US Navy spokesman said Friday that the Iranian Revolutionary Guards had radioed a British warship explaining that no harm had come to the 15 British sailors and marines and that they were seized because they were in Iranian waters.



Cmdr. Kevin Aandahl of the US Navy's Fifth Fleet said a "very limited exchange of communication" occurred between the Iranian Revolutionary Guards Navy after it had intercepted the Royal Navy service members saying "that no harm had come to any personnel and that they were being taken to a place of safety." (AP)
What a suprise

[saigonsmuggler]

So a group of british sailors accompanied by maybe 4-6 FPGRM would have came up trumps against iranian naval vessels would they?
Ever think that they wouldn't want to escalate the problem, and that they wouldn't have been able to react under the specific ROE set aside for boarding ops?
I served on Cornwall for 4 years, know many of the crew and have a good idea who would have been nabbed, i take EXTREME offence at any suggestion of incompetence, it a good ship with a good crew. Wind your neck in dick-head.
then maybe a proper procedure for dealing with such an incidence was not developed after the first kidnapping in 2004.

Eitherway, I think the Royal Navy and to some extent, the US Navy should shoulder the blame over this. It is rather embarassing IMHO.

[Sabre]

then maybe a proper procedure for dealing with such an incidence was not developed after the first kidnapping in 2004.

Eitherway, I think the Royal Navy and to some extent, the US Navy should shoulder the blame over this. It is rather embarassing IMHO.

1) We don't know exactly what happened

2) The Shat al Arab is an easy place to wander off in. Not saying that they did, but the Iranians could put a convincing argument accross that they were in their waters.

3) These ops are more like policing than war fighting. Often it is not prudent to start blatting off rounds. Had the crews actually been in Iranian waters and engaged them/evaded them, then this could be seen as an admission of guilt or malicious intent. It's often best just to 'go with the flow' and settle it out 'internationally' rather than locally.

[artinist]

Wind your neck in dick-head.

go fly a french flag. surrender monkey

[Hydro]

go fly a french flag. surrender monkey



Go away you nasty little man!

[houdakye]

Cmdr. Lambert (HMS Cornwall) said in televised interview that there was a helo in the air during the bording. So...

[Power_serj]

US and Britain should put warships closer to the border as a show of force. If Iran's plans are for a trade off, for the British sailer for their people from the Americans, I say no way. That's just incouraging it.

[Hypno85]

Should of just floored it and got on the Iraqi side quick it they then taken it would mean Iran are kidnapping and breaching borders. And why the f**k did they need to take them to a safe place just warn them off and let them get back to the right side of the border. Oh and why the blindfolds? there not in anyway a POW. They better get released soon.

I swear they done it before and never gave back the equipment back i think there trying to monitor radio etc..

Sooner that country is put back to a country run by sane people the better.

And if they want to trade for there people they can go f**k there selfs SAS and SBS need some more fun.

[SF2]

sounds like a job for:

http://ruthlessreviews.com/80saction/pics/navyseals1.jpg

[VRS]

I wonder what were Marines doing? They were armed and are well trained. I'm sure they could've fought well and got themselves out of there.

[Macs.]

I wonder what were Marines doing? They were armed and are well trained. I'm sure they could've fought well and got themselves out of there.

Dear god, make it stop.

[Mastermind]

I have every confindence the Brit Sailors and Marines will be fine and released rather quickly. Iran is dealing from a very weak deck....they will shudder at what might come next if they don't relase the men and their equipment ASAP. There is nothing substantial for Iran to gain by this idiotic action and certainly much for them to lose. MM

[Fade]

I wonder what were Marines doing? They were armed and are well trained. I'm sure they could've fought well and got themselves out of there.

Someone already mentioned that they werent heavily armed, yet the Iranians likely would be with RPG's and machineguns. I would imagine too that their naval vessels would have heavier mounted guns as well.

[schwarz]

Maybe they just want the **** to hit the fan....

I still think they will be released within 2weeks.

[jameshr4]

What is going on!!! Don't people understand they were in inflatibles and the Iranians were in Gunboats so no they couldn't have fought it out not without them all dying!!!! Will people stop saying they should have shot their way out this is real life not that silly film. We don't know all the facts so lets wait and see and stop posting bone comments!!!

[SnakeBiteLeader]

^Not to mention the fact that nobody wants to die, least of all when it can be prevented. As has been pointed out several times over, there's no reason to think the Iranians will intentionally harm them.

[Aerosoul]

I hope the sailos are released without harm, just as we all do. Well, most of us.

What is going on!!! Don't people understand they were in inflatibles and the Iranians were in Gunboats so no they couldn't have fought it out not without them all dying!!!! Will people stop saying they should have shot their way out this is real life nit that **** film. We don't know all the facts so lets wait and see and stop posting silly bone comments!!!

Thank you.

[Banshee]

OK,i know im just coming into this thread late, and im a little to lazy to read through it all, but something is not quite right here.

If in international waters, why was HMS Cornwall unable to offer assistance?

I know our forces are suffering cutbacks, but does that now mean the Royal Navy sails the seas in ships with no radar!.

Point being that.. if , Cornwall was unable to assist, why, when she can presumaby spot the Iranian moves on the ships Radar ect, was there no call to patrolling air assets?.

If indeed this happened within international waters, then... we had the right of self-defence?,why then, were our servicemen not offered better protection?

This does not sit right, something stinks.

Also, is it not about time we stopped pussyfooting around with the Iranians, and showed a little more robustness with our responce. Is not kidnapping British serviceman in international waters by a sovereign state, an act of war?...

Unless of course they were caught in Iranian waters.

[Snoshi]

Iran summoned the British charge d'affaires to Tehran on Friday to protest over what it said was the illegal entry of British naval personnel into Iranian waters, state television reported. "The Iranian Foreign Ministry has seriously objected following the illegal entry of British naval military forces into our country's waters," state television reported.



A British diplomat in Tehran confirmed the charge d'affaires was summoned but gave no further details. Britain said 15 British naval personnel were seized by Iran in the Gulf but said they were in Iraqi waters. (Reuters)

Look at that...

[Stolly]

go fly a french flag. surrender monkey

The OIC of the 101st keyboardists has spoken.

[artinist]

**** off, you irritating little ****.

STFU. dont talk until you are talked to

[muttbutt]

The OIC of the 101st keyboardists has spoken.
should we salute?

[Nansouty]

I'd just say, wait end see...
The ball's in the Iranians' court, after the UK's government's demands. Quite likely, they will be soon safely released. Mistakes do happen at sea, and, thankfully, nobody has got hurt in this incident.
The only way this could turn ugly is if they were a contention in the internal Iranian power struggle. From what I gather, you have 2 main factions in Iran now :
- Khameini, for whom Prez amadinejad's a strawman, at best a cat's paw. He's leading the Council of the Revolution, and true power lies in hiw hands... but his position is getting shaky. He's getting old, and would be competitors are champing at the bit.
- Rafsandjani, K's main competitor. His faction is apparently more affluent, and has more vested interests in continued trade with the west (I may be wrong, but I think he may be the leader of the rich traders (the Bazari) who'd been one of Khomeyni's main financial supports)
So, the British sailors could be useful for Khameyni to ratchet up some support as his influence is waning, and an international crisis might help him weaken his competition....
But these are just wild guesses, and definitely looking for a worst case scenario... I would not bet the ranch on it. My gut feeling is that it will all calm down fairly soon. But people should be ready... just in case.

[Zarathustra]

go fly a french flag. surrender monkey

Thanks for you enlightening and witty sense of humour, really appropriate and appreciated.

[artinist]

OK,i know im just coming into this thread late, and im a little to lazy to read through it all, but something is not quite right here.

If in international waters, why was HMS Cornwall unable to offer assistance?

I know our forces are suffering cutbacks, but does that now mean the Royal Navy sails the seas in ships with no radar!.

Point being that.. if , Cornwall was unable to assist, why, when she can presumaby spot the Iranian moves on the ships Radar ect, was there no call to patrolling air assets?.

If indeed this happened within international waters, then... we had the right of self-defence?,why then, were our servicemen not offered better protection?

This does not sit right, something stinks.

Also, is it not about time we stopped pussyfooting around with the Iranians, and showed a little more robustness with our responce. Is not kidnapping British serviceman in international waters by a sovereign state, an act of war?...

Unless of course they were caught in Iranian waters.


the US has two carrier battle groups there. yet nobody was around to offer assitance... things like that can not fall inbetween cracks.

[Createdeemcee]

They captured them in a desputed area, I hope they verify that Iran crossed that boundry. after the investigation.

[artinist]

Thanks for you enlightening and witty sense of humour, really appropriate and appreciated.

this coment you are refering to was directed to an idiot here who initially started name calling. not to the british forces. cut the crap.

[Roanoke]

STFU. dont talk until you are talked to

Please, just leave before you get brutally disemboweled.

[polemistis]

Unless of course they were caught in Iranian waters.

This is also a possibility. No need for them to start shooting each other over a mistake.

[artinist]

Please, just leave before you get brutally disemboweled.

nice to see everyone is in good mood today.

[Stu B]

It seems very plausable to me that the Brits could be in what the Iranians see as their waters. It is a disputed area where borders have changed. Of course the British would respect Iranian sovereignty and never try to gather military intelligence would they.:)

[Stolly]

should we salute?

His rank warrants this salute

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y280/vanno85/finger.jpg

[Kippari]

nice to see everyone is in good mood today.

Okay redneck keep it down please. Try to contribute to discussion instead of bashing the French.

[N-G-F-O]

this coment you are refering to was directed to an idiot here who initially started name calling. not to the british forces. cut the crap.

POT THIS IS KETTLE, CONFIRM COLOUR, OVER.

Anyone who doesn't go in all guns blazing is apparently a coward.
Pal, the world is littered with the dead of your kind.

My dad's bigger than your dad, my cock's bigger than yours, i'm braver than you... i see a theme emerging here.

Pick a corner, any corner, go sit in it and give yourself a slap, there's a good chap.
We've a name for people of your ilk:

Gobshyte.

[kazbitch]

nice to see everyone is in good mood today.

fs someone just get rid of this tool.....:bash:

[Argyll]

enough or this gets locked!!

[N-G-F-O]

Sorry, mate.
Emotions are running a bit high.
This is me, backing down.

[Fade]

nice to see everyone is in good mood today.

Everyone was for the most part until it was insinuated that the Royal Navy was incompetent, which pissed off a member who actually served (fmrly) on the ship involved in the incident.

Anyways, personal petty BS has no place in this thread. Least we can all do is show some respect and self-control.

[joshfox0]

Just got back home from bristol to this news and suffice to say i'm not a happy bunny. Although it is good news the BBC were on the boat at the same time because it is much more likely then that the BBC will have some sort of footage that will make it visable to all as to which side of the river it was on. Anyway here hopeing we get the personel back soon.

Meh i feel like i want to rant a little but quite frankly i'm getting so used to moves liek this its all just a big annoying really.

[SnakeBiteLeader]

Apparently Ahmadenijad is not coming to NYC after all. Just heard it on the news.

[demotivater]

Apparently Ahmadenijad is not coming to NYC after all. Just heard it on the news.
Good, there are enough kooks in NYC already.

[BearInBunnySuit]

Just got back home from bristol to this news and suffice to say i'm not a happy bunny. Although it is good news the BBC were on the boat at the same time because it is much more likely then that the BBC will have some sort of footage that will make it visable to all as to which side of the river it was on. Anyway here hopeing we get the personel back soon.

Meh i feel like i want to rant a little but quite frankly i'm getting so used to moves liek this its all just a big annoying really.

Anyone in the military and one steeped in such lofty tradition as the British royal navy will never be questioned for their bravery, at least not by me.
But then again one of my all time favorite movies is The Bridge Over River Kwai so I am perhaps being a little subjective.

[Snoshi]

Apparently Ahmadenijad is not coming to NYC after all. Just heard it on the news.

Yep... Haha.. But just wait.. He will blame USA for the VISA trouble

[BearInBunnySuit]

Apparently Ahmadenijad is not coming to NYC after all. Just heard it on the news.

I think he said some of his security people couldn't get visas.
Well, duh, pick someone who will get clearance.

[tyovan4]

heres about Ahmadinejad's canceled visit to the UN

Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad has canceled a planned visit to the United Nations, blaming a delay in U.S. visas being issued to the crew of his airplane.

Ahmadinejad wanted to speak to the U.N. Security Council before a vote, scheduled for Saturday on sanctions against Iran.

Iran says it will still try to get high-level representation to the U.N. most likely the foreign minister.

The draft resolution comes after the U.N.'s atomic energy watchdog agency said last month it could not verify that Iran's uranium enrichment program was strictly for peaceful purposes, as Iran has said. Western nations, including the United States, believe Iran is using its uranium enrichment program to develop nuclear weapons.

The five permanent members of the Security Council and Germany came to an agreement on the resolution and presented it to the council last week, but several nations said they wanted to add amendments to it.

The acting U.S. Ambassador to the United Nations, Alejandro Wolfe, said Thursday some amendments were agreed to, but he offered no details about those.

"We embraced amendments that were consistent with the philosophy of this resolution ... and those that would enhance its clarity and enhance its value," he said.

Also Thursday, Dumisani Kumalo, the Ambassador from South Africa, which holds the rotating presidency of the Security Council this month, said he felt steamrollered into voting on the resolution on Saturday.

"I feel like I was misled," he said, adding that he had been led to believe that he would have more time to consider the resolution.

But French Ambassador Jean-Marc de la Sabliere rebutted Kumalo's comments, saying discussions have gone on for some time.

"And we have the whole day tomorrow to discuss it," he said.


http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/meast/03/23/iran.nuclear/index.html

[BadKarma26]

UNITED NATIONS (CNN) -- Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad has canceled a planned visit to the United Nations, blaming a delay in U.S. visas being issued to the crew of his airplane.
Ahmadinejad wanted to speak to the U.N. Security Council before a vote, scheduled for Saturday on sanctions against Iran.
Iran says it will still try to get high-level representation to the U.N. most likely the foreign minister.
The draft resolution comes after the U.N.'s atomic energy watchdog agency said last month it could not verify that Iran's uranium enrichment program was strictly for peaceful purposes, as Iran has said. Western nations, including the United States, believe Iran is using its uranium enrichment program to develop nuclear weapons.
The five permanent members of the Security Council and Germany came to an agreement on the resolution and presented it to the council last week, but several nations said they wanted to add amendments to it.
The acting U.S. Ambassador to the United Nations, Alejandro Wolfe, said Thursday some amendments were agreed to, but he offered no details about those.
"We embraced amendments that were consistent with the philosophy of this resolution ... and those that would enhance its clarity and enhance its value," he said.
Also Thursday, Dumisani Kumalo, the Ambassador from South Africa, which holds the rotating presidency of the Security Council this month, said he felt steamrollered into voting on the resolution on Saturday.
"I feel like I was misled," he said, adding that he had been led to believe that he would have more time to consider the resolution.
But French Ambassador Jean-Marc de la Sabliere rebutted Kumalo's comments, saying discussions have gone on for some time.
"And we have the whole day tomorrow to discuss it," he said.

[Fade]

Yep... Haha.. But just wait.. He will blame USA for the VISA trouble
Snoshi wins! lol

[IsraDani]

UNITED NATIONS (CNN) -- Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad has canceled a planned visit to the United Nations, blaming a delay in U.S. visas being issued to the crew of his airplane.


woot And so we go for another ride of bad quality propaganda

[jeffe]

The Iranians will rub some noses for awhile and then let them go. Sooner or later, force protection will get addressed.
"Gulf of Tonkin" jeez!

[Alex-L]

Also guys need to understand no reason for the US or UK to go in firing when we are not in a state of war with Iran. It is a very volitaile situation that has to be treated as such.

If the Iranians started firing on the Brits, I assure you things would be different.

Lets see how this plays out. good luck to them and prayers to their families

[scuba]

Didn't something like this happen a couple of years ago? Wasn't a section of Royal Marines and sailors taken to Iran "for crossing the border on the Tigris river in their boat". They were all released after a few days though.

[Spare MolliG]

Didn't something like this happen a couple of years ago? Wasn't a section of Royal Marines and sailors taken to Iran "for crossing the border on the Tigris river in their boat". They were all released after a few days though.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/3826179.stm

Intresting to note that none of the equipment was returned. Iran going Chinese on the SA80, could prove useful... ;)

[scuba]

Thanks, that was it.

[Bia]

Everything will depend on how Iran will react.. If they will release these sailors fast then it will be a minor incident.. But if they wont then i think it may end up bad.

Anyone can change the topic's name?That reminds me... what was the incident a few yrs back where one of our planes landed in China?
Turned out not too serious after a few days I think...???

[SnakeBiteLeader]

That reminds me... what was the incident a few yrs back where one of our planes landed in China?
Turned out not too serious after a few days I think...???

Yeah, back in April of 2001.

[Klatuu]

Maybe the Iranians arrested the British for their participation in the illegal war in Iraq ?

Didn't they bring this on themselves just by being there?

:roll:

[Spare MolliG]

They weren't part of that. A part of a U.N. mandated mission to stop smuggling, et cetera. Cars in this case I think?

[VRS]

Someone already mentioned that they werent heavily armed, yet the Iranians likely would be with RPG's and machineguns. I would imagine too that their naval vessels would have heavier mounted guns as well.

They were probably close to their teritory...13 men armed with automatic weapons (I assume they had their rifles) can put up a good fight for couple of minutes till' they retreat back across the river, unless they got completely suprised/ambushed.

[2Sheds_Jackson]

That reminds me... what was the incident a few yrs back where one of our planes landed in China?
Turned out not too serious after a few days I think...???

I thought of this too - and I'll tell you why. The crew of that aircraft was criticized for landing it in China with much of the SIGINT/ELINT stuff, plus crypto keys and cyphers still intact. There were those who said it was their duty to ditch (or otherwise crash it) rather than let it fall into Chinese hands. As it was, the Chinese held on to them, completely disassembled the aircraft and it's contents, and gave it back to us in chunks. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hainan_Island_incident

I thought of this because - and I don't want to sound like I'm bashing anybody - but would it not have been possible to resist the Iranian boats, at least to the extent where they fire a warning shot or two? This seems silly - the Brits board a ship in international waters, the Iranians surround the Brits- hey let's all just endlessly surround each other! I'm just sayin' that there's a certain amount of risk to be assumed in this kind of work, and on occasion, greatness is attained by taking that risk.

All the facts are not in, so I'll reserve judgment however, and hope these guys won't be forced to go on camera and admit to crimes against the peaceful people of Iran.

[TheMacedonian]

They weren't part of that. A part of a U.N. mandated mission to stop smuggling, et cetera. Cars in this case I think?

The UK marines were inforcing UNSCR 1723 which supports Iraq stability and reconstruction.

Yes they are supposed to prevent smuggling to and from Iraq but how did they end up intercepting an Iranian ship going away down the Persian gulf. If it was smuggling to Iraq they could have board it well inside Iraqi territory but it looks like it was some smuggling away from Iraq which it is not the mandate of the mission. Unless the UNSCR 1723 means intercepting all smuggling vessels inside the Persian gulf.

This thing is harmless but it could be used as a pretext for more serious things. The marines will be back within 3 days.

[Anthony91]

The UK marines were inforcing UNSCR 1723 which supports Iraq stability and reconstruction.

Yes they are supposed to prevent smuggling to and from Iraq but how did they end up intercepting an Iranian ship going away down the Persian gulf. If it was smuggling to Iraq they could have board it well inside Iraqi territory but it looks like it was some smuggling away from Iraq which it is not the mandate of the mission. Unless the UNSCR 1723 means intercepting all smuggling vessels inside the Persian gulf.

This thing is harmless but it could be used as a pretext for more serious things. The marines will be back within 3 days.

Hopefully they will. I hope to god this doesn't turn into a US Embassy incident.

[Meph]

The UK marines were inforcing UNSCR 1723 which supports Iraq stability and reconstruction.

Yes they are supposed to prevent smuggling to and from Iraq but how did they end up intercepting an Iranian ship going away down the Persian gulf. If it was smuggling to Iraq they could have board it well inside Iraqi territory but it looks like it was some smuggling away from Iraq which it is not the mandate of the mission. Unless the UNSCR 1723 means intercepting all smuggling vessels inside the Persian gulf.

This thing is harmless but it could be used as a pretext for more serious things. The marines will be back within 3 days.


Are SEALS still interdicting ships in the Persian Gulf? I know they were before the war.

[ckabusk]

Hmm, it sounds like the next war similar with two solider captured in Israel.... :(

[Anthony91]

Hmm, it sounds like the next war similar with two solider captured in Israel.... :(

I don't think it will turn into that.

[LazyLob]

This situation is an interesting one. At least from the Iranian side. If this is a government approved action it is puzzling as this doesn’t seem to help them in any way, maybe quite the opposite.

It seems internal Iranian politics are playing themselves out on the Shat al Arab.

This time around cannot be fully compared with June 2004. Things are more tense with sanctions looming.

We’ll soon have a bunch of analysts giving us reasons.

As for our ROE….………we’ll see. I just hope we haven’t bitten off more than we can chew.

[Bia]

I thought of this too - and I'll tell you why. The crew of that aircraft was criticized for landing it in China with much of the SIGINT/ELINT stuff, plus crypto keys and cyphers still intact. There were those who said it was their duty to ditch (or otherwise crash it) rather than let it fall into Chinese hands. As it was, the Chinese held on to them, completely disassembled the aircraft and it's contents, and gave it back to us in chunks. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hainan_Island_incident

Thank you for the info and link Sir!

[Chops]

I'm reasserting Argyll's warning. Anyone posting gung ho ****e about the boarding party shooting it out with Iranian gunboats can go on holiday. Anyone posting about the competency of the RN can go on holiday. In fact, any more **** in this thread and offenders are binned.

[Ezekiel25:17]

Hope the boys come back safe and sound to thier families.

[Anthony91]

Hope the boys come back safe and sound to thier families.

Same here...

[HomShaBom]

In the 2004(I think) incident, did the guys come back roughed up?

[Alex-L]

In the 2004(I think) incident, did the guys come back roughed up?

I am searching now but i dont remember any issues about harm done

I'm reasserting Argyll's warning. Anyone posting gung ho ****e about the boarding party shooting it out with Iranian gunboats can go on holiday. Anyone posting about the competency of the RN can go on holiday. In fact, any more **** in this thread and offenders are binned.

i dont know about yall, but i dont want to be binned, binnding sucks..

jk buddy

thank yall for stopping the bs

[Chops]

NP mate. Just ****s me to tears whenever something happens the chairborne brigade all pipe in with their video game influenced opinions. Seriously if you have nothing "intellectually stimulating" :) to provide, don't.

[Alex-L]

Seriously if you have nothing "intellectually stimulating" :) to provide, don't.

thats my motto

[n4292936]

In a few days it will be sorted... ..Mafi Mushkila
They speak farsi mate ;) though I'm sure plenty on here appeciate the sentiment

[Banzai!]

And to think when the Argentinians tried the same thing in the Falklands, the marines put a Carl Gustav right into their boat.

[LazyLob]

They've been moved to Tehran. Fars news agency.

[GiladS]

Iran: British sailors to be used as bargaining chips
By JPOST.COM STAFF AND AP (editors@jpost.com)
TEHERAN, Iran

Fifteen British sailors taken at gunpoint Friday by Iranian Revolutionary Guard's soldiers were not captured accidentally and are to be used as bargaining chips to be used for the release of five Iranians who were arrested at the Iranian consul in Irbil, Iraq, an Iranian official told the daily paper Asharq al-Awsat on Saturday.
Furthermore, officials from Western countries expressed concern Saturday that Iran would engage in similar acts in the future in order to discourage the United Nation's Security Council from imposing further sanctions, reported Army Radio.


Iran had maintained Friday that the British sailors had entered Iranian territorial waters illegally; the United States Naval Forces Central Command (US Fifth Fleet) issued the following statement regarding the incident:

"At approximately 10:30 a.m. Iraqi time March 23, 15 British naval personnel, engaged in routine boarding operations of merchant shipping in Iraqi territorial waters in support of United Nations Security Council Resolution 1723 and the government of Iraq, were seized by Iranian naval vessels.

The boarding party had completed a successful inspection of a merchant ship when they and their two boats were surrounded and escorted by Iranian vessels into Iranian territorial
waters.

The British government is pursuing this matter with the Iranian authorities at the highest level and on the instructions of the British Foreign Secretary, the Iranian ambassador was summoned to the British Foreign Office. The British Government is demanding the immediate, unconditional and safe return of their people and equipment.

Royal Navy forces operate as part of Combined Task Force 158. CTF 158's mission is tomaintain security and stability in Iraqi territorial waters and to protect the Iraqi oilterminals, under the UN mandate set out in the Security Council Resolutions on Iraq.

CTF 158 is currently commanded by Royal Navy Commodore Nick Lambert and operates as one of three coalition task forces in the Combined Maritime Forces under the leadership of Commander, US Naval Forces Central Command/US Fifth Fleet, Vice Adm. Kevin Cosgriff," the statement concluded.

Iranian state television said, however, that this was "not the first time that British military personnel during the occupation of Iraq have entered illegally into Iran's territorial waters," the state TV quoted a foreign ministry official as saying. He was
not identified by name.
Earlier, the British government summoned the Iranian ambassador, Rasoul
Movahedian, to the Foreign Office for a meeting which a department spokesman described as "brisk but cordial."


During the meeting, Sir Peter Ricketts, the senior civil servant in the department, demanded "the safe return of our personnel and equipment," the spokesman said, speaking on condition of anonymity under department rules.

Britain's Foreign Secretary Margaret Beckett demanded Teheran fully explain the detention, saying in a statement after Movahedian's summons that he "was left in no doubt that we want them back."
Iran later claimed that the British soldiers and marines have been "detained by Iran's border authorities for further investigation ... of the blatant aggression into Iranian territorial waters," the official also said. Iran demanded an immediate explanation from London and "asked that this not happen again," the television said.

The foreign ministry conveyed Iran's "strong protest" to the diplomat, who was said to be the British charge d'affaires in the absence of a London ambassador to Teheran. The diplomat was also asked to "provide answer as soon as possible" from London.

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1173879158891&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull

[Freedom-Fries]

They've been moved to Tehran. Fars news agency.


Thanks for the updates

[Scottie]

They speak farsi mate ;) though I'm sure plenty on here appeciate the sentiment

Farsi indeed they do, but most people who have been in the Gulf will understand , Habibi ;)

[TheMacedonian]

This thing is harmless but it could be used as a pretext for more serious things. The marines will be back within 3 days.

Moved to Tehran!

There goes harmless. Possible bargaining chips.

UK will not negotiate with hostage takers and this thing now might drag on for a month.

[-=P=-]

@GiladS

I wouldn't believe everything that is reported by Asharq al-Awsat and Jpost isn't also the most independent source ;)

[N-G-F-O]

oo-er, according to sky news the EU's getting involved now.

[Snoshi]

he Fars news agency reported on Saturday that the 15 British navy personnel who were detained in the Gulf on Friday have been transferred to Tehran to explain their "aggressive action."

Fars added that the service people had in their possession "military and sophisticated geographic exploration equipment." The Fars report received no immediate confirmation.

Tehran earlier on Saturday condemned what it called "Britain's illegal infiltration of Iranian waters," the ISNA news agency reported.

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Foreign Ministry spokesman Mohammad-Ali Hosseini said the "interfering and hostile British act was suspicious and contrary to international rights and therefore there could be no justification (for London) not accepting responsibility."

The spokesman added the British officials should make recompense for their mistake rather than sticking to "irrelevant interpretations for justifying their illegal act."

Fars said the British navy personnel, who it said included some women, were transferred to the Iranian capital around noon local time on Saturday.

Iranian officials were not immediately available to comment on the report, which did not give a source for the information.

Earlier on Saturday, Iran's Foreign Ministry condemned what he called the illegal entry of British naval personnel into Iranian waters as a "suspicious act", the official IRNA news agency said.

Iranian forces seized 15 British servicemen on Friday in the mouth of the waterway that separates Iran and Iraq, triggering a diplomatic crisis at a time of heightened tension over Tehran's nuclear ambitions.

"The Foreign Ministry's spokesman called the illegal and interfering entry of British forces into Iranian territorial waters a suspicious act and against international laws and rules and has harshly condemned it," IRNA said.

It quoted Foreign Ministry spokesman Mohammad Ali Hosseini as saying:

"Violating the territory of other countries and non-permitted entrance ... show unusual aims and is against international treaties and there are no excuses for ignoring and not accepting the responsibility for that."

Iran said on Friday that the 15 British sailors it detained in the Persian Gulf had entered Iranian territorial waters illegally and summoned the top British diplomat in Tehran to protest, Iranian state television quoted an Iranian foreign ministry official as saying.

This is not the first time that British military personnel during the occupation of Iraq have entered illegally into Iran's territorial waters, the state TV quoted the official as saying. He was not identified by name.

The official described the incident as an open incursion and illegal entry into Iranian waters.

"The British soldiers and marines have been detained by Iran's border authorities for further investigation ... of the blatant aggression into Iranian territorial waters," the official also said.

Iran demanded an immediate explanation from London and asked that this not happen again, the television said.

The British personnel from the frigate HMS Cornwall were engaged in routine boarding operations of merchant shipping in Iraqi territorial waters, and had completed their inspection of a merchant ship when they were accosted by Iranian vessels, the the U.K. Ministry of Defense said in a statement.

Earlier Friday, Britain's Foreign Secretary Margaret Beckett demanded a full explanation for the incident. She made these remarks after Iran's ambassador was summoned to Britain's Foreign Office and held a 20-minute meeting with a senior aide.

"He was left in no doubt that we want them back," Beckett said in a statement.

Sir Peter Ricketts, a senior aide to Foreign Secretary Margaret Beckett, held a brief meeting with Rasoul Movahedian, after the diplomat was called to Britain's Foreign Office to account for the incident.

Britain's ambassador to Iran, Geoffrey Adams, had raised the matter with officials in Tehran, Beckett said.

The U.S. Navy said Friday that the Iranians radioed the British and said that that no harm had come to their sailors, and that they were seized because they were in Iranian waters.

The U.S. Navy, which operates off the Iraqi coast along with British forces, said earlier that Iran's Revolutionary Guard naval forces were responsible.

Britain's Defense Ministry said the British Navy personnel were engaged in routine boarding operations of merchant shipping in Iraqi territorial waters, and had completed a ship inspection when they were accosted by the Iranian vessels.

"We are urgently pursuing this matter with the Iranian authorities at the highest level," the ministry said.

A U.S. official said the incident occurred just outside a long-disputed waterway called the Shatt al-Arab dividing Iraq and Iran. It came as tensions were running high in the Persian Gulf after Iran's defiance of UN Security Council orders to rollback on its nuclear program and U.S. allegations that Iran is arming Shiite militias in Iraq.

U.S. officials had expressed concern that with so much military hardware concentrated in the Persian Gulf, just such a small incident could spiral out of control and trigger a major armed confrontation.

White House press secretary Tony Snow said the Bush administration was monitoring the situation.

"The British government is demanding the immediate safe return of the people and equipment and we are keeping watch on the situation," Snow said.

Vali Nasr, a senior fellow for Middle East Studies at the Council on Foreign Relations, suggested that Iran may be retaliating for the arrest of five Iranians in a U.S.-led raid in northern Iraq in January. The U.S. said the five included a Revolutionary Guards general.

"I think Iran sees this as retaliation for the arrest of their own personnel. They have repeatedly said that they want their personnel released," Nasr said. "So they are either signaling that they can do the same thing or they are trying to bring attention to it."

Earlier this week, Ayatollah Ali Khamenei said "if Western countries want to treat us with threats and enforcement of coercion and violence, undoubtedly they must know that the Iranian nation and authorities will use all their capacities to strike enemies that attack."

Commander Kevin Aandahl of the U.S. Navy's Fifth Fleet said the British crew members were intercepted by several larger patrol boats operated by Iranian sailors belonging to the Iranian Revolutionary Guard Corps Navy, a radical force that operates separately from the country's regular navy.

Lieutenant Commander Charlie Brown of the U.S. Fifth Fleet said six Revolutionary Guards patrol boats intercepted the two British vessels.

"The Iranian boats normally carry bow-mounted machine guns, while the British boarding party carried only sidearms," Aandahl said. "No shots were fired and there appeared to be no physical harm done to any personnel involved or their vessels," Aandahl said.

The seizure of the British vessels, a pair of rigid inflatable boats known as RIBs, took place in long-disputed waters just outside of the mouth of the Shatt al-Arab waterway that divides Iraq from Iran, Aandahl said. A 1975 treaty gave the waters to Iraq and U.S. and British ships commonly operate there, but Aandahl said Iran disputes Iraq's jurisdiction over the waters.

"It's been in dispute for some time," Aandahl said. "We've been operating there for a couple of years and we know the lines very well. This was a compliant boarding, this happens routinely. What's out of the ordinary is the Iranian response."

Aandahl said the U.S.-led task force has touchier relations with the Revolutionary Guard, who often ignores normal maritime operating traditions, than with the regular Iranian navy.

The Shatt al-Arab waterway is formed by the confluence of the Tigris and Euphrates rivers at the town of Al-Qurnah. It flows southeastward for 193 kilometers and passes the port of Basra and the Iranian port of Abadan before emptying into the Persian Gulf.

A fisherman who said he was with a group of Iraqis from the southern city of Basra fishing in Iraqi waters in the northern area of the Gulf said he saw the Iranian seizure. The fisherman declined to be identified because of security concerns.

Two boats, each with a crew of six to eight multinational forces, were searching Iraqi and Iranian boats Friday morning in Ras al-Beesha area in the northern entrance of the Arab Gulf, but big Iranian boats came and took the two boats with their crews to the Iranian waters.

The Cornwall's commander, Commodore Nick Lambert, said the frigate lost communication with the boarding party, but a helicopter crew saw the Iranian vessels approach.

"I've got 15 sailors and marines who have been arrested by the Iranians and my immediate concern is their safety," Lambert told British Broadcasting Corp. television.

Lambert said it was a routine boarding, the skipper of the vessel answered all the questions, and the leader of the boarding party cleared him to continue with his business.

In June 2004, six British marines and two sailors were seized by Iran in the Shatt al-Arab. They were presented blindfolded on Iranian television and admitted entering Iranian waters illegally, then released unharmed after three days.
Looks like Iran may keep them

[Snoshi]

UK media: Iran may use sailors as bargaining chip

Islamic Republic threatening full-blown crisis over ‘invasion of its territorial waters’; The Times says sailors may have been victims of a deliberate ambush by Iran, perhaps seeking to use captives as hostages in stand-off between West over its nuclear program

AFP
Published: 03.24.07, 09:55 / Israel News

Iran was holding a group of British sailors it said had illegally entered its waters, threatening a full-blown crisis as the West was set Saturday to tighten sanctions on Tehran for its nuclear program.

Britain has demanded the immediate safe return of the 15 sailors and marines it said were seized Friday in Iraqi territorial waters while conducting "routine" anti-smuggling operations.


British newspapers expressed fears the sailors might be used as a bargaining chip as the UN Security Council was set to adopt Saturday a resolution tightening sanctions on Iran over its refusal to halt sensitive nuclear fuel work.


Iran summoned Friday Britain's top diplomat in Tehran to protest what it said was the illegal entry of the British sailors into its waters.


"This makes a number of times that British sailors have illegally entered Iranian territorial waters at Arvand Roud. They were arrested by border guards for investigation and questioning," said an Iranian foreign ministry statement, without saying how many personnel had been seized.


Arvand Roud is the Iranian name for the Shatt al-Arab waterway that separates Iran from Iraq.


Earlier, the British defense ministry had said 15 sailors were seized Friday morning by Iran in Iraqi territorial waters while conducting "routine" anti-smuggling operations.


Following their capture, Foreign Secretary Margaret Beckett summoned the Iranian ambassador for what she described as "brisk but polite" talks.


"We have sought a full explanation of what happened and we are leaving them in no doubt that we want the immediate and safe return of our personnel and their equipment," she said in a televised statement.



'Sailors did the right thing'

Although this was not the first time British sailors have been seized by Iran in the waterway between Iraq and Iran, it comes amid a fraught diplomatic climate as the West seeks to press Tehran to curb its nuclear program.


The United States suspects Tehran of seeking to develop nuclear weapons under the guise of a civilian nuclear program. The UN Security Council was expected to vote unanimously on tightening sanctions against Iran on Saturday, according to diplomats.


British newspapers expressed concern that Iran would use the sailors as a bargaining chip.


"There were growing fears that the 15 British sailors and Royal Marines were victims of a deliberate ambush by Iran's Revolutionary Guards, perhaps seeking to use the captives as hostages in the increasingly tense stand-off between the West and Iran over its nuclear program," said The Times.


"There is now what looks like a hostage crisis," wrote The Guardian.


"These anti-smuggling patrols are relatively uncontentious, but they represent an opportunity for Iran to grasp.


"The source of a dispute matters less than the leverage Tehran thinks it can extract from it."


The British defense ministry said the 15 naval personnel, based on HMS Cornwall in the Gulf, had completed an inspection of a merchant ship when they and their two boats were surrounded and escorted by Iranian vessels into Iranian territorial waters.


A defense ministry spokesman declined to give further details, but underlined that the British navy was boarding merchant ships in Iraqi waters in support of UN Security Council resolution 1723.


British naval boats routinely patrol the Shatt al-Arab to clamp down on smugglers operating between Iraq and Iran.


A senior Navy commander said he hoped the capture was a "misunderstanding," while admitting that the area where they were detained was disputed.


A senior defense source told the Sun tabloid that the sailors "did the right thing. They were heavily outnumbered and outgunned. There was no point in putting up a fight. No shots were exchanged and from what we understand so far, none of our people have been harmed."


In June 2004, eight British sailors and marines were detained for three days in Iran after being seized during another routine operation. They were paraded blindfold on television and forced to apologize for their "mistake."


On that occasion Iran insisted that the British boats - which it has not yet returned - were intercepted only after they entered Iranian waters on the Shatt al-Arab.
I wonder what will happen next..

[GiladS]

@GiladS

I wouldn't believe everything that is reported by Asharq al-Awsat and Jpost isn't also the most independent source ;)

I still find them to be more reliable than the official declarations of the Iranian regime (the article isn't only by Jpost but also by AP).

[Invisigoth]

Wow, talk about surprise event...this is the first time I am truly perplex with the Iranian regime. This doesn't make a whole lot of strategic sense, unless they have knowledge of an imminent strike against their nation. That's the only event in which this would make for a decent bargaining chip.

[GiladS]

No doubt about it... the Iranians were starting to feel the pressure regarding their nuclear program and involvment in Iraq.

[Scottie]

I hope they will make a big deal out of this to show how a serious situation this is, and that you just don't go capturing soldiers outside your territorial waters. Iran needs to buckle up for this one, and get their acts together.

[500]

Sunday, March 18, 2007

Report: Iran Ponders Kidnapping U.S. Troops in Retaliation for Mysterious Officer Disappearances

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,259484,00.html

Friday, March 23, 2007

Iran seizes British sailors.
---------------------------------

Iranians threaten and commit.

[Redmen]

Would the Rev guard shoot at them if they (the British) left the area? I know the reports say that they were taken at gunpoint but would the Iranians acctualy shot at them if they didnt listen to Iranian demands and started heading back to HMS Cornwall.

[n4292936]

Farsi indeed they do, but most people who have been in the Gulf will understand , Habibi ;)

love it, you still in that area?

[IsraDani]

They are playing a very risky game now. The brits aren't the kind of people who love to be blackmailed and they'll approve the UN sanctions plan and will not step down on their positions.
I hope for Iran they know what they're doing and they'll relase very soon the captives, a bluff can also fail.

[Sheikh Al Stranghi]

I hope they all get back safely. I'm sure this can be settled by diplomatical means, and I'm also pretty sure the RN judged the situation best they could.

This is Iran's problem now, they started this one.


(Argyll, I once cleared an entire oil tanker of terrorists with just my 9mm in Rainbow Six! If a RN boarding team can't do that, I'm sure they're all n00bs!p-))


Godspeed lads.

[Snoshi]

Capture of UK sailors response to Iranian officers’ arrest'

Iranian military source quoted by al-Sharq al-Awsat as saying that decision to capture 15 British soldiers in Persian Gulf was reached after diplomatic efforts to release ‘Al-Quds Force’ officers seized by American troops in Iraq failed; Fars news agency reports nay personnel transferred to Tehran to explain their ‘aggressive action’

Roee Nahmias
Published: 03.24.07, 12:23 / Israel News

The decision to capture 15 British sailors in the Persian Gulf was reached by the Iranian General Staff six days ago in response to the arrest of Iranian officers by US forces in Iraq, an Iranian military official said.


On Saturday the UK-based newspaper al-Sharq al-Awsat quoted the Iranian military source as saying that the plan to capture the British sailors was formulated by the Islamic Republic’s Supreme Security Council.


The decision to kidnap the sailors was reached after a report submitted to Iran’s ground for