M4 Drum mag in A-Stan

[justagoodolboy]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v210/wdwalker/psyop.jpg
Found this in the archived images on Army.Mil.

The description was this -



Staff Sgt. Bruce Martin and Sgt. Brian Dobrenen, from the 314th Psychological Operations Battalion, patrol Ghazni, Afghanistan.


If you look closely at the soldier on the left, his m4 is equipped with some sort of drum mag setup.

Anyone else have any documented use of these? Any idea on the manufacturer? This is the first time I've seen them in use by the U.S. Army. Any other resources guys?

[StukaJr]

Looks like Beta C-Mag?

[schwarz]

Cool find, Ive never seen them in use by and branch of the military either. Any chance he paid for it out of his own pocket? How reliable are those drums BTW?


I am no expert but I dont think that is an M4, but M16A2 I think.

[justagoodolboy]

Cool find, Ive never seen them in use by and branch of the military either. Any chance he paid for it out of his own pocket? How reliable are those drums BTW?


I am no expert but I dont think that is an M4, but M16A2 I think.

No you're correct, had my mind on too many things when I wrote this.

[Macs.]

Not a M4/M16, but you see those C-Mags rarley in use.

http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l314/Macs3000/BetaMag1.jpg

http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l314/Macs3000/BetaMag2.jpg

[jagermeister]

I really dont care for them, there really heavy and bulky not to mention far from reliable. ill stick to running 30 rounders.

[schwarz]

I really dont care for them, there really heavy and bulky not to mention far from reliable. ill stick to running 30 rounders.


Id hate the thought of having to carry one(couple) on a patrol not to mention it probably messes with your weapons balance.

[BiZ]

Not the first, nor last, use of drum mags by US Forces OS...

Ahem... p-)

426th Civil Affairs Battalion, Army Reserve Special Operations Unit

http://img219.imageshack.us/img219/9751/cmagbk1.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[bryanleu2002]

I really dont care for them, there really heavy and bulky not to mention far from reliable. ill stick to running 30 rounders.

Let alone, if one round hits that c-mag you out that X amount of rounds. vers, 30. 20.

2MCDC

[deagle]

i don't think it isn't unreliable, but its just a matter of preference of user i guess

[justagoodolboy]

I can't see the logic behind having one on a 16a2. The only possible use I could think of is if you plan on lots of full auto fire, and need the extra rounds per mag.

[vinny_121_ND]

That's pretty cool. He's wearing a chalker sling. Rarely see those.

[jcareaga]

http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l314/Macs3000/BetaMag1.jpg

by any chance does anyone know what kind of camo those guys have?

[BiZ]

by any chance does anyone know what kind of camo those guys have?

Seeing as they're German and that they're KSK...

[Macs.]

Wüstenflecktarn/Wüstentarn, the desert version of Flecktarn.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flecktarn

[unpleasant]

Looks pretty reliable to me.

http://youtube.com/watch/v/OmliCMvcaq0

[BiZ]

Looks pretty reliable to me.

So does everything on the range...without being knocked...dropped...prodded...cold...hot...wet...dry...dusty...being run with...etc etc...

[Robbee]

This (like most other things on mp.net) has been discussed before


C-MAG Results: ‘I’ll Stick with 30 Rounds’

By U.S. Army Staff Sgt. Kevin Askew / 109th Mobile Public Affairs Det.

KANDAHAR, Afghanistan – Soldiers at Kandahar Airfield, Afghanistan, found a much different result than what they expected when testing the C-MAG, a 100-round magazine undergoing tests conducted by the Army Rapid Equipping Force.

The C-MAG is designed for 100 rounds of unlinked ammo. It’s designed as a back-up for loose ammo when linked ammunition is unavailable, or as an alternative to link ammunition, and is manufactured by the Beta Group.

“The bottom line is, ‘would you want to take this on a life-threatening situation,’ ” said Army Col. (Ret.) Ray Fitzgerald, one of two independent consultants from The Wexford Group International hired by the Army to assess the magazine’s performance in the field. “This is what we expected; but (in a way) it’s actually worse than expected. We’re getting the data we need and I do want to capture it on the survey.”

The rest of the article goes into what went wrong:
http://www.defendamerica.mil/articles/jul2003/a072803b.html

[Freibier]

I had one of the first generation C-Mags for my SL8 and it broke after the fifth use (at the range, no abuse, the dummy rounds inside the mag (that act as the follower) came loose).
Latest generation seem to be more reliable but I wouldn't buy another one ...

[Molli]

I can't see the logic behind having one on a 16a2. The only possible use I could think of is if you plan on lots of full auto fire, and need the extra rounds per mag.

But, they do not have full-auto capability; remember burst! ;) :)

[501 Scout]

Trust Me, from personal experiance C- mags are the biggest pice of sh@t that I have ever used. It will fail when you need it the most. Alot of people say that if you keep it clean then it will work, the only problem is that in Iraq/A-stan you really can't keep anything clean. Almost all Infantry units won't allow them to be carried becuse they are so unreliable. Those guys are probaly National guard.

[vinny_121_ND]

instead of investing money in faulty mags, why not invest some money in the 416 and scar rifles where they are much more reliable in putting rounds down range accurately? Quality versus quantity is the solution.
It doesn't make sense to buy mags that seem awesome but jam frequently.

[BrianT]

Yeah its probably some reserve psyops guys. It doesn't make sense to carry that over a SAW. Unless you just got to have something that can lay down suppressive fire and thump grenades downrange.

[Sabre]

Let alone, if one round hits that c-mag you out that X amount of rounds. vers, 30. 20.

2MCDC

If a round hit my mag on patrol, I'd lose the contents of my bowels, never mind the rounds in the mag! Not the most likely of scenarios.

As for the 'C mag', I have no experience with it, but it would look like a pain in the arse to have to stash after it's empty. At most a two-mag coupler would do for some ready rounds on patrol, but then you have the problem of getting shyte in the other mag...

Single 30 round mags and quick, efficient drills seem to be the answer. Sound basics win every time! ;)

[Sheikh Al Stranghi]

If a round hit my mag on patrol, I'd lose the contents of my bowels, never mind the rounds in the mag! Not the most likely of scenarios.

As for the 'C mag', I have no experience with it, but it would look like a pain in the arse to have to stash after it's empty. At most a two-mag coupler would do for some ready rounds on patrol, but then you have the problem of getting shyte in the other mag...

Single 30 round mags and quick, efficient drills seem to be the answer. Sound basics win every time! ;)

true, true. On the two mag part: usable in an urban environment, you don't wanna hit the floor and accidentally stick the lower mag in the mud. When you're on the move it works just fine.

[T72]

Trust Me, from personal experiance C- mags are the biggest pice of sh@t that I have ever used. It will fail when you need it the most. Alot of people say that if you keep it clean then it will work, the only problem is that in Iraq/A-stan you really can't keep anything clean. Almost all Infantry units won't allow them to be carried becuse they are so unreliable. Those guys are probaly National guard.

Here is the Point!
The C-mags is piece of sh_t!
But, I don't think the Old Ironsiders is National Guard! :)

Maybe it wasn't an accidentally, this guy from a Psychological Warfare Bat.!

If you look at the picture, this guy "wear" a M16A2 with C-Mag and M-203!, plus 5 granade on the front, Big First Aid pouch, and a big radio pack on the back! Plus M9.

He's a Big Terminator with mustache! ;)

[501 Scout]

Old Ironside is his combat patch, dosen't mean that they are in 1st AD. As titled PSYOPS

[AC434]

"If you look at the picture, this guy "wear" a M16A2 with C-Mag and M-203!, plus 5 granade on the front, Big First Aid pouch, and a big radio pack on the back! Plus M9."

M203, C-mag, ammo, and all the other "essentials." He must not be going far, his weapon weighs as much as a SAW.

[Seraphim]

instead of investing money in faulty mags, why not invest some money in the 416 and scar rifles where they are much more reliable in putting rounds down range accurately? Quality versus quantity is the solution.
It doesn't make sense to buy mags that seem awesome but jam frequently.

Because you cant bring your own firearms over there.

[justagoodolboy]

But, they do not have full-auto capability; remember burst! ;) :)d

which is why I can't see the logic...

[ZoneOne]

All I know is that must be one heavy damn rifle. 100 round mag w/ a 203 attached. Mm that must be fun humping that around all day

[-[Crosshair]-]

I hate M203s because they are heavy as f**k, I can't imagine one with a Beta-C magazine with 100 rounds, jesus.

[jagermeister]

-;2394893']I hate M203s because they are heavy as f**k, I can't imagine one with a Beta-C magazine with 100 rounds, jesus.


+1 I hate 203s for some reasons i wont get into and i really hate those damn beta mags.

[8thidpathfinderpower]

That guy on thr right looks like he just might be a CCT or JTAC or something, and the guy on the leftmust eat his wheaties in the morning, because to lug that set up hes got around, he would have to be Arnold in disguise

[bryanleu2002]

If a round hit my mag on patrol, I'd lose the contents of my bowels, never mind the rounds in the mag! Not the most likely of scenarios.

As for the 'C mag', I have no experience with it, but it would look like a pain in the arse to have to stash after it's empty. At most a two-mag coupler would do for some ready rounds on patrol, but then you have the problem of getting shyte in the other mag...

Single 30 round mags and quick, efficient drills seem to be the answer. Sound basics win every time! ;)

I agree


I was simply saying that it is possible that one incoming round "could" take out your intire 100 rounds of outgoing rounds. So why even bother with the C-mag in the first place, Eliminate that possibility from the equation, and practice practice Drill Drill , with 30s.

and if i was on patrol and got a round in my mag, I'd lose the contents of my bowels too.

2MCDC

[hughdotoh]

I really dont care for them, there really heavy and bulky not to mention far from reliable. ill stick to running 30 rounders.

Spring Fatigue?

[ZoneOne]

Spring Fatigue?

Aren't there pills that fix that problem?

:lol:

[Seraphim]

Aren't there pills that fix that problem?

:lol:

I think CJ is the man to talk to about that. p-)

[BrianT]

That guy on thr right looks like he just might be a CCT or JTAC or something, and the guy on the leftmust eat his wheaties in the morning, because to lug that set up hes got around, he would have to be Arnold in disguise
Because of the commo equipment? Probably a squadleader. I'm guessing the number of CCTs rolling an Old Ironsides combat patch on their field uniform and an old Army IBA are slim.

[oregongrunt]

I was an infantry platoon leader in Iraq in 2003 and one of my squad leaders had this drum on his M-4. He was a police officer in civilian life and ordered in through the mail. I came in handy for sure. I have pics somewhere if you want to see it. hope this helps.

[Saber_Dart]

I would like to see pics, sounds interesting, how exactly did it come in handy? (though I don't doubt it)

[Seraphim]

I would like to see pics, sounds interesting, how exactly did it come in handy? (though I don't doubt it)

It came in handy when he needed something to sit on. What else do you think a 100round drum mag can come in handy????????? :roll:

[FROGFOOT-MKDN]

Little off topic, how true are claims that P-90 submachine gun magazine if dropped, semi full, would not function, because of messing up the rounds order inside it?

[deagle]

I can't see the logic behind having one on a 16a2. The only possible use I could think of is if you plan on lots of full auto fire, and need the extra rounds per mag.


I think it'd make an awesome support weapon....lots of ammo, for suppressing fire, or m203 (or smoke etc..) for indirect fire. WOOT !

I also heard its a bit unreliable, but it was due to m4/m16 not being able keep up with cycling rate that a beta mag might need to fire out all those rounds. BUT, can't they just fix it to be more reliable ? seems like a stupid answer, but it makes a bit of sense.... unreliable, fix it to make it more reliable (prob easier said than done though) LOL

[deagle]

but then again, what good is 100 rounds if it jams up !!

[deagle]

another thing to note, is that the article was published in jul 2003 ... hopefually, by now, the reliability issues have been improved

[jagermeister]

no they havent been cleared up. For suppressing fire your have your SAWs . A M16 with a beta mag and no bipod is gonna be a waste of time, not to mention your gonna burn your barrel out using it in that role.

[justagoodolboy]

and not to mention you're limited to a three round burst.

[ABNINF]

and not to mention you're limited to a three round burst.


Not necesarily

[justagoodolboy]

Unless they're using antique A1s or A3s(Which I haven't heard of, although I could be wrong), I think they are limited to a 3 round burst or Semi-auto firing mode.

edit: I'm referring of course to M16s, it's a little more understandable on an M4. None the less, none of these are really good SAWs out of the box.

[oregongrunt]

and not to mention you're limited to a three round burst.

If you keep pulsing the trigger it will fire full-auto like. An M4 with the drum can work on single shots if someone has the desire to haul that heavy thing around. What could a person be firing at with long bursts from an M4, are you being overrun over something?

[Paulinski]

Maybe his rifle sits besides his desk 95% of the time. I guess then betas are reliable.

[bghon]

They call them c-mag or beta mag...IMO they r very impressive on papers spec.but in actual pratical conditions they somehow failed to feed or jammed malfunction...just don't know why???If one c-mag maybe tat's the unlucky one but can't be the whole platoon!!!:cantbeli: