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2Sheds_Jackson
03-27-2007, 12:23 PM
'Baby-Drops' Introduced in Germany as Infanticide Cases Spike


BERLIN — Desperate mothers are being urged to drop their unwanted babies through hatches at hospitals in Germany in an effort to halt a spate of infanticides that has shocked the country.

At least 23 babies have been killed so far this year, many of them beaten to death or strangled by their mothers before being dumped on wasteland and in dustbins.

Police investigating the murders are at a loss to explain the sudden surge in such cases, which have involved mothers of all ages all over the country.

City councils have launched an advertising campaign to highlight the problem and to promote greater use of what are being called Baby-Klappe hatches that allow women to drop off their babies to be found and cared for without having to give their names. Posters were being put up in cities and towns across Germany yesterday, urging women to make use of the Baby-Klappe, with the slogan “Before babies land in the rubbish bin . . .”
The campaign has already drawn criticism from senior clergymen and from charities, including Caritas, who argue that it could actively encourage mothers to dump their children. But there is agreement that something must be done to address what appears to be an infanticide epidemic.
Last Thursday a 27-year-old woman known as Sabine H surrendered to police in an east German town after her newborn child was found in a blue plastic rubbish bag floating in a lake.

In the same week Monika K, 26, was arrested on suspicion of throwing her baby out of a 10-storey Hamburg apartment building, wrapped in a plastic shopping bag. She had given birth to him half an hour before, in the bathtub. A dog found the bag and tore it open.

For the past week, Susanne H from Baiersdorf in Bavaria has been on trial for strangling her baby daughter and putting her in the freezer. The 39-year-old mother of two boys, aged 10 and 4, feared her boyfriend’s disapproval. “He threatened to throw me out if I concealed another pregnancy from him,” she told the court.

Another woman was arrested in Kiel a week ago after police found two dead babies in her freezer. One was stillborn a year ago; the other was a recent live birth.

Earlier this month in Kiel, a driver pulled up to a garage and found the corpse of a young baby in a waste-paper basket. The DNA coincided with that of another baby who was fished out of a trash sorting depot a year ago; the mother has not been traced.

So far this year at least 23 cases of infanticide have come to light, well above the average. Experts believe that the true figure is even higher. Professor Helmut Kury, a criminologist, say: “Some women have a greater fear of losing their partners than of losing their child. They take desperate measures to save a relationship.”

Professor Mechthild Neises, head of the Psychosomatic Unit at the Medical University in Hanover, agreed: “Such women have usually lied about their pregnancy for so long that they have stopped believing that they are actually pregnant. When the baby suddenly arrives, they panic and just want to get rid of it.”

But the baby-drops, modeled on foundling wheels that were first used in Italy in medieval times, are not seen as the final antidote to these killings. “Often the mother is under such psychological pressure that she doesn’t even register alternatives like the Baby-Klappe,” Dr Neises said.
But they do offer an alternative for some mothers. The drop-off point is usually hidden from view, shielded by trees and away from security cameras. The baby is put on to a tray that slides through a hole in the wall and is gently lowered into a heated cot. An alarm bell alerts nursing staff — but only after the mother has been given sufficient time to make a getaway. The baby can be reclaimed, usually up to three months later, should the mother change her mind.

In Berlin the posters, giving full addresses and phone numbers of three hospitals with baby-drops, are sponsored by Hans Wall, a businessman whose company maintains bus shelters and public lavatories. A baby was dumped in one of his shelters on a cold night last January. He became its godfather and will finance its education.

Political support for the campaign has come from the Green party, but the government is more wary, fearing legal problems. On occasions children with severe disabilities or babies aged over 3 months have been dumped: both in breach of the law.

“There are serious legal and professional arguments against baby-drops,” a government spokeswoman said. “But we cannot ignore the fact that they can save lives.”

In Berlin alone 6 babies have been pushed through a slot since they were introduced in 2003. Initial skepticism started to melt after a woman in eastern German was arrested for letting nine of her babies die. Some were buried in plant pots in her garden.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,261588,00.html


Good. Lord. What has happened to womankind? It certainly seems to have changed it's focus from tirelessly defending it's young, to mercilessly pursuing someone to rub it's genitals. Y'know, they could save all this time and trouble if they'd just give this phenomena a medical sounding name...like "post birthal reductional procedure", provide some biohazard bags to dispose of them in, and move on.

[WDW]Megaraptor
03-27-2007, 01:06 PM
And yet if these mothers did this 1 day before the baby was born it would have been perfectly legal.

Hydro
03-27-2007, 01:08 PM
Megaraptor;2393864']And yet if these mothers did this 1 day before the baby was born it would have been perfectly legal.



Erm, I can't think of any legal abortion practices that allow you to abort one day before due to give birth.

Kitsune
03-27-2007, 01:18 PM
This is shocking indeed, although the basic poblem isn't exactly new.



From BBC News (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/669006.stm):


Row over postbox for unwanted babies




A row has broken out in the German city of Hamburg over a plan to allow women to deposit unwanted babies in a specially designed "letterbox".
The project is aimed at preventing deaths of abandoned newborns, but local conservative politicians have called it unchristian and inhuman.
Mothers can anonymously post the babies through a large letterbox-style hatch onto a soft, heated bed.
Medical staff at a hospital next door are alerted of a new arrival by an alarm, and the baby should be picked up within 10 minutes.
The project is being part-funded by a recycling firm which found a child
The child will be looked after for two months, after which it will be put up for adoption or fostering, unless the mother comes forward.


Criticism

Thirty newborn babies died in Germany last year, after being dumped in rubbish bins and cardboard boxes. Four babies were abandoned in Hamburg, of whom two died.
Critics say the scheme, known as Operation Foundling, is taking the idea of today's disposable society to the extreme.
"Charges must be brought against the first person who leaves their child there," Viviane Spethmann of the Hamburg Christian Democrats told Bild newspaper.
But local Roman Catholic bishop Hans-Jochen Jaschke supported the scheme.
"This is a good signal for our society," he said. "Every person needs a chance to live. It's always better to help people than to condemn them."
The Association for Adoption and Fostering said there were better ways to solve the problem. A spokeswoman said adopted children should be guaranteed a minimum of information about their origins.

Funding

The project is being run by the Hamburg social welfare society, SterniPark.
The $100,000 scheme is being part-funded by Hamburg's youth authorities, but it also derives some of its money from private donations.
Some $3,000 has been donated by a recycling firm which once discovered an abandoned child dead among its rubbish.
Similar projects already operate in Hessen and Brandenburg with limited success, while a scheme in Bavaria run by a Catholic women's group has been criticised for its secrecy in refusing to release the numbers of babies rescued.
The project was even tried once before in Hamburg in the 18th Century.
The German Government is said to be receptive to plans to expand Operation Foundling nationwide.
Similar schemes are also in operation in Minnesota, USA, and in South Africa.


Next to "Minnesota, USA, and in South Africa", they seem to have the problem of unwanted childs in Russia as well: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/6335201.stm

Its really hard to understand how anyone can kill a newborn child. Not as if that would be necessary: there are lots of couples all over the world waiting desperately for the chance to adopt a child.

dangerclose
03-27-2007, 01:21 PM
Erm, I can't think of any legal abortion practices that allow you to abort one day before due to give birth.

It's legal to kill a baby with all of but it's head out of the birth canal. The difference between infanticide and a woman exercising her right to choose is just a matter of a few inches I guess.

Kitsune
03-27-2007, 01:25 PM
@Megaraptor:
And yet if these mothers did this 1 day before the baby was born it would have been perfectly legal.

No. In Germany abortion is only allowed within the first 12 weeks of pregnancy. After that it is illegal, the only exception being that the pregnacy endangers the life of the women or her health in some severe way.
And one day, one week or one month or even two before the expected birthtime any physician would try to preserve the life of the child of course. It would be criminal not to.

[WDW]Megaraptor
03-27-2007, 01:29 PM
@Megaraptor:

No. In Germany abortion is only allowed within the first 12 weeks of pregnancy. After that it is illegal, the only exception being that the pregnacy endangers the life of the women or her health in some severe way.
And one day, one week or one month or even two before the expected birthtime any physician would try to preserve the life of the child of course. It would be criminal not to.

Really? That's a far better way to approach it, although I don't support early term abortion either. In the US, it's like dangerclose said, which is simply disgusting...

Hydro
03-27-2007, 01:30 PM
It's legal to kill a baby with all of but it's head out of the birth canal.



Is that due to the mother changing her mind halfway through birth or if there are severe medical complications that threaten her life and all other options have been exhausted? If it really is as you described it (and it seems really far fetched, but I'm not familiar with US abortion laws), then somethings wrong. AFAIK abortion here is legal only within a certain time frame of pregnancy (it might be the same as Kitsune describe German laws, the first 12 weeks - it's very early on).

kosse
03-27-2007, 01:34 PM
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6235557.stm European abortion laws.

2Sheds_Jackson
03-27-2007, 01:48 PM
Is that due to the mother changing her mind halfway through birth or if there are severe medical complications that threaten her life and all other options have been exhausted? If it really is as you described it (and it seems really far fetched, but I'm not familiar with US abortion laws), then somethings wrong. AFAIK abortion here is legal only within a certain time frame of pregnancy (it might be the same as Kitsune describe German laws, the first 12 weeks - it's very early on).

It varies by state, but since you can travel, you can basically always find a doctor to legally crush the skull of your baby right up to the date of delivery. Doctor'in is just like any other business - there's always somebody willing to fill the demand if there is $ to be made. Their word is law, and they can easily turn "I just don't want it" into "life threatening emergency".

Kitsune
03-27-2007, 01:52 PM
Hmmm...the British law is more strict than that of many other European countries in so far that a mother does need to have at least social or economic reason. But then, abortion is allowed for up to 24 weeks after gestation.To "abort" a six month old fetus you possibly need a hammer after extraction. I can practically visualize the Monty Python sketch. Ugh...

Weasel
03-27-2007, 01:57 PM
This is nothing new. These so called "Baby-Klappen" exist since centuries.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baby_hatch

2Sheds_Jackson
03-27-2007, 02:27 PM
This is nothing new. These so called "Baby-Klappen" exist since centuries.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baby_hatch

The original article mentions that. I think the difference here is that it's not the year 1100 any more, and today's women exist in a world with birth control, prosperity, wealth, and many adults willing to adopt. Why we'd need to resort to treating our modern, sophisticated women folk as if they were brainless medieval peasants is beyond me.

Herrmannek
03-27-2007, 02:38 PM
'Baby-Drops' Introduced in Germany as Infanticide Cases Spike


Good. Lord. What has happened to womankind? It certainly seems to have changed it's focus from tirelessly defending it's young, to mercilessly pursuing someone to rub it's genitals. Y'know, they could save all this time and trouble if they'd just give this phenomena a medical sounding name...like "post birthal reductional procedure", provide some biohazard bags to dispose of them in, and move on.

I sense sarcasm...
I don't see a problem with this child-drop-in-hatch thing. Its century old way of disposing unwanted children for reuse, baby killings is old thing too...

Anyway for anti-conception tips from other posts, some recent research shows that majority of girls and guys at abortion clinics are victims of being falsely confident with their chosen anti-conception method... Ironically

Herrmannek
03-27-2007, 02:44 PM
The original article mentions that. I think the difference here is that it's not the year 1100 any more, and today's women exist in a world with birth control, prosperity, wealth, and many adults willing to adopt. Why we'd need to resort to treating our modern, sophisticated women folk as if they were brainless medieval peasants is beyond me.

you were misinformed. AFAIK those flappen-closets are not drop-in-and-forget. If girl have impulse to kill it baby it can leave it there no question asked at any time, children saved. Later cops have to find mother anyway and follow normal procedure. This days its not as cruel at it seems.

2Sheds_Jackson
03-27-2007, 03:48 PM
I sense sarcasm...
I don't see a problem with this child-drop-in-hatch thing. Its century old way of disposing unwanted children for reuse, baby killings is old thing too...

No sarcasm -I find it appalling that a modern enlightened society has developed a receptacle for anonymously abandoning children. Hooray for us, haven't we come a long way from the 12th century? Actually, we're probably even worse now - people in the 12th century were destitute, living in terrible conditions, were stariving, had no birth control, and didn't understand anything at all about human reproduction. Today's women with all their advantages, now abandon children because they're too stupid or lazy to use birth control, and because the man they've picked to screw will abandon them if they produce a child. Lots of good judgment and decision-making all around.



Anyway for anti-conception tips from other posts, some recent research shows that majority of girls and guys at abortion clinics are victims of being falsely confident with their chosen anti-conception method... Ironically

If by "falsely confident" you mean "not using any".... p-)


you were misinformed. AFAIK those flappen-closets are not drop-in-and-forget. If girl have impulse to kill it baby it can leave it there no question asked at any time, children saved. Later cops have to find mother anyway and follow normal procedure. This days its not as cruel at it seems.

What normal procedure? Find the mother and do what? Hand them back the baby they just abandoned rather than kill it? I can't imagine that they'd do that - it would be crazy.

Hey, I'm not arguing against the baby drop - it's obviously a bit better than dropping a baby from a 10 story window, or suffocating it in a trash bag. It's just that for all the talk of female empowerment, of modern feminism giving women all the choice and power they could want...they're reduced to secretly abandoning their meaningless children so they can keep their precious boyfriends. Instead, they should be grabbing the twit by his shirt, and saying "listen asshole, you made it, you deal with it."

Fade
03-27-2007, 03:54 PM
they're reduced to secretly abandoning their meaningless children so they can keep their precious boyfriends. Instead, they should be grabbing the twit by his shirt, and saying "listen asshole, you made it, you deal with it."

Hear, hear. It really does take two. With so many options available to people (education, birth control, adoption services, or HEY! taking care of the baby you helped create) it makes me wonder why people choose murder instead.

Human beings aren't garbage to be thrown away. :-(

Weasel
03-27-2007, 04:07 PM
The original article mentions that. I think the difference here is that it's not the year 1100 any more, and today's women exist in a world with birth control, prosperity, wealth, and many adults willing to adopt. Why we'd need to resort to treating our modern, sophisticated women folk as if they were brainless medieval peasants is beyond me.

Well, even today we have murder, rape, violence, war.......... not much changings since 1100. :|

Kaapeli
03-27-2007, 04:26 PM
Half of marriages end in divorce, there are more singles than ever, teen pregnancies on the rise and people **** around irresponsibly like rabbits without contraception even when it's readily available.

I'm no "family values" type of person but it looks to me like people are getting dumber and more irresposible by the day. Though I might be just bitter because I ain't getting any.

Herrmannek
03-27-2007, 04:34 PM
If by "falsely confident" you mean "not using any".... p-)

Zee research shows this happen to people who "use all", if i remember well 70% of people at abortion clinics(I believe poll was made in UK) are victims of being too confident... It seems all this procreation scientist when telling people they are safe forget that eggs and sperm can go McGyver style...I'm not surprised. if it wouldn't be that way we would be extinct long time ago.

Freibier
03-27-2007, 04:37 PM
Makes me very sad, especially since more children would solve a lot of our current problems (I mean someone gotta pay my pension someday ;) )
Problem is that a child can ruin a woman's career. The old days where women were just housewives are over - the system in the former GDR where there was a kindergarten place for every child was much better in that regard.

Fade
03-27-2007, 04:40 PM
Problem is that a child can ruin a woman's career. The old days where women were just housewives are over - the system in the former GDR where there was a kindergarten place for every child was much better in that regard.

Agreed. It doesn't have to be that way though - up here a woman can have a baby and collect a year of Unemployment wages while on Maternity leave and her job is waiting for her on return... Does no such system exist in Germany?

toki
03-27-2007, 04:41 PM
It varies by state, but since you can travel, you can basically always find a doctor to legally crush the skull of your baby right up to the date of delivery. Doctor'in is just like any other business - there's always somebody willing to fill the demand if there is $ to be made. Their word is law, and they can easily turn "I just don't want it" into "life threatening emergency".

LEGALLY? I find this hard to believe. Let's just say i'm very surprised about american law. I always thought it was generally against abortion. "Abortion" as in the first weeks, not "pre delivery". That would be considered murder/manslaughter here, from both sides of the spectrum (pro/anti abortion). :|


Btw i just thought about those infant killings a couple of days ago. And by reading "Baby-Drops" i first thought about the girl who threw here kid out of a 10 story building recently. Sad, but true.

Freibier
03-27-2007, 04:44 PM
Agreed. It doesn't have to be that way though - up here a woman can have a baby and collect a year of Unemployment wages while on Maternity leave and her job is waiting for her on return... Does no such system exist in Germany?
Here they can even have two years off but there are lots of studies that show that there still is a very negative impact on career - especially for unmarried mothers.
And after those two years then what? The child still needs 24/7 care till at least Kindergarten age and then you gotta be lucky to find a place.
Many Kindergartens here have a waiting list of several years - you basically have to apply for a place upon conception :|

Herrmannek
03-27-2007, 04:49 PM
Makes me very sad, especially since more children would solve a lot of our current problems (I mean someone gotta pay my pension someday ;) )
Problem is that a child can ruin a woman's career. The old days where women were just housewives are over - the system in the former GDR where there was a kindergarten place for every child was much better in that regard.

I'm egoist. Kindergarten sucks big time.. I know something about that.. I was wiping floors of that institutions since I was less than one years old and while my mom was doing her scientific career. Women place is in home, if woman have spare time she can go scientific all she want...

Freibier
03-27-2007, 04:51 PM
Would all be a lot easier that way but the ladies tend to disagree

Herrmannek
03-27-2007, 04:54 PM
Would all be a lot easier that way but the ladies tend to disagree

While its not written in their genes we still have chance :)

hughdotoh
03-27-2007, 04:54 PM
Then there's the Knut story about saving a polar bear, vis-a-vis leaving unwanted babies anonymously. Much as both cases are indeed humane, I find it odd that humans would care more for an abandoned polar bear baby than human babies.

Fade
03-27-2007, 04:56 PM
Here they can even have two years off but there are lots of studies that show that there still is a very negative impact on career - especially for unmarried mothers.
And after those two years then what? The child still needs 24/7 care till at least Kindergarten age and then you gotta be lucky to find a place.
Many Kindergartens here have a waiting list of several years - you basically have to apply for a place upon conception :|

Unemployment wage isnt exactly livable here either for a new single parent...but it's better than nothing.

Then there is the cost of childcare after, along with waiting lists for kindergarten. We dont seem to have difficulty to the same degree here with Kindergartens...wonder if it's because we have more room? Our government also subsidizes having babies, 100 CDN a month till they are 6 years of age.

[WDW]Megaraptor
03-27-2007, 04:57 PM
LEGALLY? I find this hard to believe. Let's just say i'm very surprised about american law. I always thought it was generally against abortion. "Abortion" as in the first weeks, not "pre delivery". That would be considered murder/manslaughter here, from both sides of the spectrum (pro/anti abortion). :|

And I always thought European countries allowed abortion anytime, for any reason, no questions asked.

The thing you have to remember about US Abortion law is that most of it doesn't exist as law. What's legal and what isn't is almost all based on court cases. I would argue that the legalization of abortion in the USA is the textbook example of how courts can abuse their power to "legislate from the bench."

US Partial-Birth Abortion laws (http://members.aol.com/abtrbng/pbal.htm)


So-called "Partial-birth" abortion is performed in the second and third trimesters and entails (1) inducing a breech delivery with forceps, (2) delivering the legs, arms and torso only, (3) puncturing the back of the skull with scissors or a trochar, (4) inserting a suction curette into the skull, (4) suctioning the contents of the skull so as to collapse it, (5) completing the delivery. A partial breech delivery is not considered a "birth" at common law, where it is the passage of the head that is essential.


Laws to ban this uniquely controversial late-term abortion procedure have been passed in at least thirty states, including: Alabama, Alaska, Arizona, Arkansas, Florida, Georgia, Illinois, Indiana, Kansas, Louisiana, Michigan, Mississippi, Montana, Nebraska, New Jersey, Ohio, Oklahoma, Rhode Island, South Carolina, South Dakota, Tennessee, Utah, Virginia and Wisconsin. The Utah statute applies only after viability (as defined by the statute). Additionally, Massachusetts and Indiana have a specific ban on state funding of these procedures.

While these statutes contain maternal "life" exceptions, they generally do not include a maternal "health" exception. Supporters claim that a broad health exception would effectively eviscerate the laws, while opponents claim that the laws are thus unconstitutional under Casey (http://members.aol.com/abtrbng/conlaw.htm#casey). Opponents also claim that the bans are void under Casey (http://members.aol.com/abtrbng/conlaw.htm#casey) because they place an "undue burden" on pre-viability abortions and argue that the language of most of the statutes is vague enough to affect other procedures commonly used in the first two trimesters. This is the basis upon which most challenges to the statutes are based. About two-thirds of the 30 or so laws passed (including those of Arizona, Michigan, Nebraska, New Jersey, and Ohio) have been enjoined either temporarily or permanently by federal courts. These laws have been enjoined based on the findings by federal district courts that they unduly burden pre-viability abortions (either directly or because of statutory vagueness) or that they impede access to post-viability abortions that are justified by maternal health.

hauptman
03-27-2007, 05:10 PM
@Megaraptor:

No. In Germany abortion is only allowed within the first 12 weeks of pregnancy. After that it is illegal, the only exception being that the pregnacy endangers the life of the women or her health in some severe way.
And one day, one week or one month or even two before the expected birthtime any physician would try to preserve the life of the child of course. It would be criminal not to.

Well, it should be noted that abortion is basically illegal. But there is an exempt from punishment in the first 3 months of a pregnancy.

btw,
in Austria the Police has a reprimand right against anti-abortion demonstrators who threaten or speak to women in front of or near a hospital p-)
The Parliament already has a law for safety zones around hospitals but the law hasn't been approved yet. (which would include penalties if you threaten a women who is on her way to an abortion)

[WDW]Megaraptor
03-27-2007, 05:11 PM
btw,
in Austria the Police has a reprimand right against anti-abortion demonstrators who threaten or speak to women in front of or near a hospital p-)
The Parliament already has a law for safety zones around hospitals but the law hasn't been approved yet. (which would include penalties if you threaten a women who is on her way to an abortion)

In the USA police arrest those people so chalk another one up for Europe's protection of unborn babies...

Herrmannek
03-27-2007, 05:14 PM
Unemployment wage isnt exactly livable here either for a new single parent...but it's better than nothing.

Then there is the cost of childcare after, along with waiting lists for kindergarten. We dont seem to have difficulty to the same degree here with Kindergartens...wonder if it's because we have more room? Our government also subsidizes having babies, 100 CDN a month till they are 6 years of age.

You don't need to spend fortune on the kids if you don't want, of course its a model not everyone is willing to take, but I can't whine about that... Food, clothes and books for school in times of wall mart don't cost fortune and they don't rise linearly with amount of children, newest toys, expensive trips, after school activities etc aren't obligatory... All toys I had was my bike, other than that was company of friends, stick and mouth-sound effects... Of course its easier here because of public school and universities, but not everyone have to have master degree...

hauptman
03-27-2007, 05:15 PM
Megaraptor;2394396']In the USA police arrest those people so chalk another one up for Europe's protection of unborn babies...

Well, they discussed if such a "safety zone law" would be legal in respect to the constitution for 10 years now ... and finally they have agreed that it is not illegal so maybe such a law will come in the next few years -.-

AK-Lover
03-27-2007, 06:42 PM
What the hell is going on in Germany lately? Incest, cannibalism, infantcide....

2Sheds_Jackson
03-27-2007, 06:50 PM
Makes me very sad, especially since more children would solve a lot of our current problems (I mean someone gotta pay my pension someday ;) )
Problem is that a child can ruin a woman's career. The old days where women were just housewives are over - the system in the former GDR where there was a kindergarten place for every child was much better in that regard.

Well if the career is what's supposed to be important, then I suppose so.

Macs.
03-27-2007, 06:51 PM
What the hell is going on in Germany lately? Incest, cannibalism, infantcide....

The media has something to report about.

Things like that have/and will properly always happen, everywhere in the world as long there are human

Macs.
03-27-2007, 06:53 PM
Well if the career is what's supposed to be important, then I suppose so.

Nice article concerning that...



Germany's Neo-Housewives Spark Debate on Gender Roles

By Khuê Pham in Berlin

A new wave of anti-feminism is taking hold of Germany. Former career women-turned-housewives are spreading the word about a "new femininity" which encourages women to stay at home and embrace motherhood.

The anonymous letter makes for heartbreaking reading. "Dragging myself from job to job, I used to feel so useless. I wanted to be special but didn't know how -- I was neither fish nor flesh." For this angst-ridden career woman, salvation finally came in the full-bellied shape of motherhood. "With my husband and daughter at my side, I'm so happy and free now," she proclaims.

What sounds like a scene out of a 1950s TV sitcom is in fact a letter written to Eva Herman, the German author of the controversial bestseller "The Eva Principle" ("Das Eva Prinzip"), sub-titled "Towards a New Femininity." The principle in question rests on a series of tenets so old-fashioned they seem almost revolutionary again: Motherhood instead of emancipation, child-rearing instead of career-climbing, devoted marriage instead of egoistic self-fulfillment.

More: http://www.spiegel.de/international/0,1518,470941,00.html

Freibier
03-27-2007, 06:57 PM
Well if the career is what's supposed to be important, then I suppose so.
Unfortunately that's often the sad reality

Kitsune
03-28-2007, 03:17 AM
Agreed. It doesn't have to be that way though - up here a woman can have a baby and collect a year of Unemployment wages while on Maternity leave and her job is waiting for her on return... Does no such system exist in Germany?

These systems may actually be a part of the problem. It goes so far that a young and fetching looking women can have more problems to find a job simply because of her gender and her looks. You see, an employer wants to employ somone precisely because he thinks he is short of personal. But by giving a job to a woman, especially a hottie, he can basically expect that she finds a friend in no time, gets knocked up and goes on some extended maternity leave. Which leaves the position more or less vacant but the employer can still not simply lay her off because she, as a young mother, is protected. Employing a man can save you this trouble. In short: these systems, designed to protect young mothers, giving them equal chances in comparision with men etc, do have a tendency to backfire.

Herrmannek
03-28-2007, 03:53 AM
These systems may actually be a part of the problem. It goes so far that a young and fetching looking women can have more problems to find a job simply because of her gender and her looks. You see, an employer wants to employ somone precisely because he thinks he is short of personal. But by giving a job to a woman, especially a hottie, he can basically expect that she finds a friend in no time, gets knocked up and goes on some extended maternity leave. Which leaves the position more or less vacant but the employer can still not simply lay her off because she, as a young mother, is protected. Employing a man can save you this trouble. In short: these systems, designed to protect young mothers, giving them equal chances in comparision with men etc, do have a tendency to backfire.

It would backfire this way or another. Women are women an no amount of gender studies will change that.