US soldiers blamed for abusing of irakis POW, gen resigns

[n.ignomo]

CBS obtains photos showing alleged abuse of Iraqi prisoners by U.S. soldiers

DAVID CRARY, AP National Writer
Wednesday, April 28, 2004


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(04-28) 18:02 PDT NEW YORK (AP) --

U.S. military police stacked naked Iraqi prisoners in a human pyramid, and attached wires to one detainee to convince him he might be electrocuted, according to photographs obtained by CBS News which led to criminal charges against six American soldiers.

CBS said the photos, shown Wednesday night on "60 Minutes II," were taken late last year at Abu Ghraib prison near Baghdad, where American soldiers were holding hundreds of prisoners captured during the invasion and occupation of Iraq.

In March, the U.S. Army announced that six members of the 800th Military Police Brigade faced court martial for allegedly abusing about 20 prisoners at Abu Ghraib. The charges included dereliction of duty, cruelty and maltreatment, assault and indecent acts with another person.

In addition to those criminal charges, the military has recommended disciplinary action against seven U.S. officers who helped run the prison, including Brig. Gen. Janice Karpinski, the commander of the 800th Brigade, a senior military official said Wednesday in Baghdad.

The investigation recommended administrative action against several of the commanders, which could include punishments up to relieving them of their commands, said the official, speaking on condition on anonymity.

When the abuse charges were first announced, U.S. military officials declined to provide details about the evidence. But on Wednesday, at a news briefing in Baghdad, Brig. Gen. Mark Kimmitt said the investigation began in January when an American soldier reported the abuse and turned over evidence that included photographs.

"That soldier said, 'There are some things going on here that I can't live with,"' said Kimmitt, who also confirmed that CBS had obtained the photographs.

One picture shows an Iraqi prisoner who was told to stand on a box with his head covered and wires attached to his hands. CBS said the prisoner was told that if he fell off the box, he would be electrocuted.

In another photograph, prisoners' bodies were stacked in a pyramid, and one man had a slur written in English on his skin.

The Army ordered an investigation into the actions of 17 soldiers from the 800th Brigade, which is based in Uniondale, N.Y. Ten were investigated for criminal actions, six of whom were charged in March.

The other seven were officers who faced an administrative investigation. Those officers have received copies of the probe and will now have the chance to rebut the claims, with a final decision expected within a month, the senior military official said.

In an interview with CBS correspondent Dan Rather, Kimmitt said the photographs were dismaying.

"We're appalled," Kimmitt said. "These are our fellow soldiers, these are the people we work with every day, they represent us, they wear the same uniform as us, and they let their fellow soldiers down."

"If we can't hold ourselves up as an example of how to treat people with dignity and respect, we can't ask that other nations do that to our soldiers," Kimmitt said.

"60 Minutes II" identified one of the implicated soldiers as Army Reserve Staff Sgt. Chip Frederick, who described to Rather what he saw in the Iraqi prison.

"We had no support, no training whatsoever, and I kept asking my chain of command for certain things, rules and regulations, and it just wasn't happening," Frederick said.

"60 Minutes II" reported Frederick will plead not guilty to charges including maltreatment and assault, claiming the way the Army operated the prison led to the abuse of prisoners. He also said he did not see a copy of the Geneva Convention rules for handling prisoners of war until after he was charged, the show reported.

The show also quoted from an e-mail which Frederick reportedly sent to his family in which he said of Iraqi prisoners: "We've had a very high rate with our styles of getting them to break; they usually end up breaking within hours."

Former Iraqi prisoners told The Associated Press last November of mistreatment in detention, including beatings and punishments that included hours of lying bound in the sun.

Amnesty International, the London-based human rights group, said in March that many former detainees in Iraq claimed to have been tortured and ill-treated by coalition troops during interrogation.

Methods often reported, it said, included prolonged sleep deprivation, beatings, exposure to loud music and prolonged periods of being covered by a hood.

[SiFiOn]

Just saw some pics of the Iraqi prisoners on a Dutch tv channel, but can't find these pics on the net. Some people are in big trouble here...

[Trident-za]

Just saw some pics of the Iraqi prisoners on a Dutch tv channel, but can't find these pics on the net. Some people are in big trouble here...

As they should be.... this kind of behaviour is complete bull****, no matter what country/political regime you support.

[SiFiOn]

Just saw some pics of the Iraqi prisoners on a Dutch tv channel, but can't find these pics on the net. Some people are in big trouble here...

As they should be.... this kind of behaviour is complete bull****, no matter what country/political regime you support.

I agree with you, thing are difficult enough now in Iraq. These pics only make the situation more worse...

[Wilco]

Let me ask you guy's something.


If you were to see your best friend killed in combat while you were sitting next to him, then wound and capture his killer, what would you do? I'm pretty sure I wouldn't sit there and smile at him now would I? I'd be kicking his face in, no matter how "Unproper" I am. Theoretically he is a POW. This is war fellas, **** like this happens.


I agree the pyramid thing and the electrical thing is out of hand, but kicking ass when people want to swear at you and spit at you, even try to fight you, that's not a problem.

[catdat]

http://www.mysantrophia.be/images/ILSA2ilsa.jpg


Brig. Gen. Janice Karpinski, the commander of the 800th Brigade?

[Ichhabe]

Wilco: you just described two completly different situations.

[SiFiOn]

Let me ask you guy's something.


If you were to see your best friend killed in combat while you were sitting next to him, then wound and capture his killer, what would you do? I'm pretty sure I wouldn't sit there and smile at him now would I? I'd be kicking his face in, no matter how "Unproper" I am. Theoretically he is a POW. This is war fellas, **** like this happens.


I agree the pyramid thing and the electrical thing is out of hand, but kicking ass when people want to swear at you and spit at you, even try to fight you, that's not a problem.

Did only see the pics about the pyramid thing and the electrical thing. Was talking about these, and I agree with you, the kicking of asses is also no problem to me.

[SiFiOn]

Let me ask you guy's something.


If you were to see your best friend killed in combat while you were sitting next to him, then wound and capture his killer, what would you do? I'm pretty sure I wouldn't sit there and smile at him now would I? I'd be kicking his face in, no matter how "Unproper" I am. Theoretically he is a POW. This is war fellas, **** like this happens.


I agree the pyramid thing and the electrical thing is out of hand, but kicking ass when people want to swear at you and spit at you, even try to fight you, that's not a problem.

Did only see the pics about the pyramid thing and the electrical thing. Was talking about these, and I agree with you, the kicking of asses is also no problem to me.

[Trident-za]

Let me ask you guy's something.


If you were to see your best friend killed in combat while you were sitting next to him, then wound and capture his killer, what would you do? I'm pretty sure I wouldn't sit there and smile at him now would I? I'd be kicking his face in, no matter how "Unproper" I am. Theoretically he is a POW. This is war fellas, **** like this happens.


I agree the pyramid thing and the electrical thing is out of hand, but kicking ass when people want to swear at you and spit at you, even try to fight you, that's not a problem.

I agree to some extent... I know this **** happens (guys in my unit in South Africa beat up captures - I intervened and I can tell you I wasn't the most popular guy around for a while) but that doesn't make it right. I'm a firm believer in moral high ground. Behaving like Saddam's thugs is not a good way to defend the idea that Saddam and his thugs were an axis of evil that had to be removed fast. Isolated cases this, I'm sure... but thats not the point. Being angry doesn't make you right... it can explain your actions, but NEVER justify them.

[Wilco]

Wilco: you just described two completly different situations.


I went on without thinking about it ;)

Close enough damnit! :P

[mustamato]

According to the news here in Sweden American media doesn´t show the pictures,
"because of pressure from Pentagon". Like wtf?

[ibstolidude]

According to the news here in Sweden American media doesn´t show the pictures,
"because of pressure from Pentagon". Like wtf?
I hate to burst your bubble but the SCREAN CAPTURES that are shown in this thread here: http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=13538&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0
are from one of the most popular US TV weekly "News Magazine" shows - they even have the name imposed on the photo captures.

[Trident-za]

Have these photos been "aired" on CNN/Fox etc? Dunno, don't have them... just curious.

[Michael RVR]

I find it incredibly hard to believe that a MP SSGT has never had the training neccesary to know how to handle POWs, nor the inclination to find out.

[ßå$tĮТHÏ¿ð]

Thats bad, they are supposed to be liberators. I believe if you treat everyone on a case by case basis, they will find the cause of all of this and fix it so it wont happen again. Certainly doesnt look good especially pictures of it floating around on the net.....

[ibstolidude]

I find it incredibly hard to believe that a MP SSGT has never had the training neccesary to know how to handle POWs, nor the inclination to find out. - considering there are dedicated units that provide for prisons of EPW's as frightening as it may be it, it is likely - . - MP's may be trained in the immediate handling of EPWs however it is very possible they were not trained in the long term holding of them.
** either way it would be a poor excuse - regardless of their training in the long term handling of the prisoners they did have lessons in the Geneva COnventions, Laws of land warfare and the army values, none of which are represented in those photographs.**

[TheBlackHand]

Of course, the peaceniks will have a field day with this. They'll attempt to rip the US Military a new one, all the while, missing the point. The point is that the people who did this and were dumb enough to photograph it are going to be punished by the military. What's more, they'll be tried in the court of public opinion via the world media.

...and about the photo of guy on the barrel who's being threatened with electrocution. I'm sure the liberal wankers will get their panties in a snit over that, while forgetting alll about those Al Jazeera videos showing an Italian guy getting his head blown apart and the Jewish guy having his head sawn off by their gracious, Arab captors.

Remember, it's all America's fault no matter what.

[martinexsquaddie]

so the american army has the same standards as terrorists :roll: wtf
they broke the rules and embarresed the US army

[Jack Mehoff]

so the american army has the same standards as terrorists :roll: wtf
they broke the rules and embarresed the US army

I see, a few messed up MPs represent 2 million people in the U.S. military. 18 terrorists flew the planes into the WTC and Pentagon were muslim and arab. That means muslim and arab are terrorists.


Dumb**** :roll:

[Mark Sman]

Heads should roll in that command.

In the heat of combat there may be regrettable incidents, but never in a POW camp.

Once you have a captive under control it is your job to protect them. Otherwise you might as well be a untrained and disorganized mob.

This is conduct unbecoming. Courts Martial in order here.

And yes, they did embarass the US military, as well as shame themselves.

[martinexsquaddie]

i was responding to the idiot blackhand.
these cretins have made the entire US army look bad :roll:

[Mark Sman]

i was responding
Opps. It pays to pay attention, which I wasn't.

Also I don't think anyone outside the investigation should show these photos because it is an insult to the Iraqi POWs that were so mistreated. There is an argument, with some validity, that showing these photos will force action.

Despicable treatment.

[n.ignomo]

Moreover to continue with wilco, maybe US soldiers saw 10 of their fellows die, but irakis saw hundreds of their fellows die......don't forget who has the most casualties.

[Jack Mehoff]

Moreover to continue with wilco, maybe US soldiers saw 10 of their fellows die, but irakis saw hundreds of their fellows die......don't forget who has the most casualties.

And how many of those Iraqis got blown up by intentional bombs planted by terrorists during morning rush hour? :roll:

Yes, innocent Iraqis will die in the cross-fire between insurgents and U.S. forces, but we are getting all the blame for it. WTF??!!

[n.ignomo]

Walt Disney was wrong 'm afraid ! I bet some days this's gonna strop

[citizen-k]

Moreover to continue with wilco, maybe US soldiers saw 10 of their fellows die, but irakis saw hundreds of their fellows die......don't forget who has the most casualties.

And how many of those Iraqis got blown up by intentional bombs planted by terrorists during morning rush hour? :roll:

Yes, innocent Iraqis will die in the cross-fire between insurgents and U.S. forces, but we are getting all the blame for it. WTF??!!

Start getting used to it.

Nobody here gives a **** about Palestinian civilians who are shot on the streets by their own "police" - but one civilian killed by accident (because he was used as a human shield for murderers) by the IDF and Israel becomes a threat to world peace :cantbeli:

Welcome to the club :hug:

[The Walrus]

These pictures are gonna cause a hell of a storm in the Arab press, and I doubt they're going to note that the soldiers involved have been
court-marhsalled, this is seriously bad news for the coalition and plays right into the hands of the insurgents.

[csqnsas]

The US invaded a free state to combat the proliferation of and support of WMD.

How many have been found?

None.

Bush states that the USA and its Allies (while forgetting to say that no WMD's have been found) have freed the people of Iraq from its dictator and his opression-including the torture of prisoners of the the said "evil" dictator.

Now this! What do you think the arab press and people of Iraq will think?

[csqnsas]

The US invaded a free state to combat the proliferation of and support of WMD.

How many have been found?

None.

Bush states that the USA and its Allies (while forgetting to say that no WMD's have been found) have freed the people of Iraq from its dictator and his opression-including the torture of prisoners of the the said "evil" dictator.

Now this! What do you think the arab press and people of Iraq will think?

[gaboki]

personall imo, i dont see the big deal in this,
tortuering prisoners has been done in every war, on every single sides,
theres no denying that we have bad apples in the US army, just like The iraqis do. they should be punished but this is nothing new right?

[Uninen]

Yes, innocent Iraqis will die in the cross-fire between insurgents and U.S. forces, but we are getting all the blame for it. WTF??!!

There would have not been a war or insurgency had you not Invaded Iraq. So yes, it is all your fault, all the blame belongs to you and you only.

:petting:

[ibstolidude]

so the american army has the same standards as terrorists :roll: wtf
shall the same comments be made about British military forces abuses? - do not let actions of ****heads speak for the majority - unless the ****heads of your countries speak for you.

[oldsoak]

Theres plenty of Yanks who have turned the other cheek in very trying circumstances ( just as there are Brits ) for me to think that this is only the responsibility of a few. It does however have a very negative public impact and the US is going to have to handle this one very carefully.

[2Sheds_Jackson]

The US invaded a free state to combat the proliferation of and support of WMD.

How many have been found?

None.

Bush states that the USA and its Allies (while forgetting to say that no WMD's have been found) have freed the people of Iraq from its dictator and his opression-including the torture of prisoners of the the said "evil" dictator.

Now this! What do you think the arab press and people of Iraq will think?

Iraq was a sovereign nation, but not a free state.

A question. If I'm a maniac, and have blown up peoples houses before, and I knock on your door & tell you that I've just planted a bomb in your basement, what would be the reasonable thing to do?

-you know I'm a bomber
-I've told you I planted a bomb in your basement
-but after looking for it, in some (but not all) parts of your house, you can't find it
-do you just go back to bed?

Again, for the 1000th time, by Saddam's own admission there were over 1000 tons of missing chemical weapons and 1.5 tons of missing VX alone. These are Iraqi and UN numbers, not American. The fact that Saddam hid his weapons well does not eliminate the fact that they did exist.

So should we all just shrug our shoulders and go back to bed, while the bomb remains in our basement? 9/11 (and other acts) have proven that is no longer safe to just hope for the best & go back to sleep.

The US will openly & publicly punish the a-holes who did this. That is one key point.

Since you put "evil" in quotes - do you not agree that Saddam was evil? If not, then I assume that you have no problem with these morons abusing prisoners either.

As to what the Arabs will say - they will march & chant & burn flags & shout the normal anti-west boilerplate they always do. But in this case, they'd be justified.

And we'd damn well better make examples of the idiots who did this.

[Truthsayer]

Nice to mention 9/11 and the need to punish anyone resposible in the middle of the speech about Iraq and Saddam.

[Jack Mehoff]

Nice to mention 9/11 and the need to punish anyone resposible in the middle of the speech about Iraq and Saddam.

Who punishes who because they voice their opinion about Iraq and Saddam? I seriously hope you just pull that out of your ass. :roll:

[UoUo]

Yes, innocent Iraqis will die in the cross-fire between insurgents and U.S. forces, but we are getting all the blame for it. WTF??!!

There would have not been a war or insurgency had you not Invaded Iraq. So yes, it is all your fault, all the blame belongs to you and you only.

:petting:

I still think that much more people died every year under sadam regime.

[mustamato]

Yes, innocent Iraqis will die in the cross-fire between insurgents and U.S. forces, but we are getting all the blame for it. WTF??!!

There would have not been a war or insurgency had you not Invaded Iraq. So yes, it is all your fault, all the blame belongs to you and you only.

:petting:

I still think that much more people died every year under sadam regime.

I don´t. Only this year thousands and thousands have been killed in Iraq, not to mention
last year when tens of thousands were killed.

[nerdman]

Yes, innocent Iraqis will die in the cross-fire between insurgents and U.S. forces, but we are getting all the blame for it. WTF??!!

There would have not been a war or insurgency had you not Invaded Iraq. So yes, it is all your fault, all the blame belongs to you and you only.

:petting:

I still think that much more people died every year under sadam regime.

I don´t. Only this year thousands and thousands have been killed in Iraq, not to mention
last year when tens of thousands were killed.

Human Rights Watch estimates that 290,000 Iraqis 'disappeared' durring past two decades.

We've got a ways to go.

[csqnsas]

2sheds_jackson,

My error however I think a true Sovereign state has a sovereign not a dictator.


I think the USA has freed the Iraqis from a terrible dictator who probably "did" sponsor terror and was developing, even had WMD.

BUT - the same can be said for many other states. and I don't see the USA or any of its allies invading those.

Mind the don't have oil reserves either.

As a serviceman I feel total respect for all those serving there however I am saddened by the Presidents policies of denial to the people of the United States regarding what is actually happening out there. i.e. a ban on the picture of the fallen or the Marines not reporting losses etc.

As I have said on this forum, It is only those who have lost a son, father, wife or daughter in service who know the true cost of any war.

[martinexsquaddie]

Sorry my comment was ment about the idiot comparing treatment of hostages with treatment of prisoners by professional soldiers operating by the rules.
there was an uncle of one of these fools on tv defending him by saying he had'nt been trained.
excuse me why'd you need training not to torture prisoners and take happy snaps :lol: