PDA

View Full Version : Mark Steyn about the European Hostages



markjh
04-02-2007, 11:11 AM
Taking of hostages by Iran is not Britain's finest hour

April 1, 2007
BY MARK STEYN Sun-Times Columnist
Twenty-seven years ago, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad was a student in Tehran and is said (by a former Iranian president, for one) to be among those in the U.S. embassy who seized and held American citizens hostage for more than a year. Today, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad is president of Iran and bears less ambiguous responsibility for Western hostages. This time round, they're British subjects: 15 sailors and Royal Marines. There are a few differences between this kidnapping and the last: Back in 1979, the Iranians seized their hostages by invading a diplomatic mission -- the sovereign territory of the United States. In 2007, they seized them in international waters. In 1979, two weeks after the embassy crisis began, 13 American hostages who happened to be black were released; the remainder were held for another 14 months. In 2007, the one woman among the hostages is being offered by the regime for early release, invitingly dangled in front of the TV cameras, though with her Royal Navy uniform replaced by Islamic dress; it remains to be seen what will become of the others. On Thursday, a new generation of "student demonstrators" called for the "British aggressors" to be executed.
On this 25th anniversary of the Falklands War, Tony Blair is looking less like Margaret Thatcher and alarmingly like Jimmy Carter, the embodiment of the soi-disant "superpower" as a smiling eunuch.
But this is a season of anniversaries. A few days ago, the European Union was celebrating its 50th birthday with the usual lame-o Euro-boosterism. I said up above that the 15 hostages are "British subjects." But, as a point of law, they are also "citizens of the European Union." Even Oxford and Hoover's Timothy Garton Ash, one of the most indefatigable of those Euro-boosters, seemed to recognize the Iranian action was a challenge to Europe's pretensions. "Fifteen Europeans were kidnapped from Iraqi territorial waters by Iranian Revolutionary Guards," he wrote. "Those 14 European men and one European woman have been held at an undisclosed location for nearly a week, interrogated, denied consular access, but shown on Iranian television, with one of them making a staged 'confession,' clearly under duress. So if Europe is as it claims to be, what's it going to do about it?''
Short answer: Nothing.
Slightly longer answer: The 15 "European" hostages aren't making that much news in "Europe." And, insofar as they have, other "Europeans" -- i.e., Belgians, Germans and whatnot -- don't look on the 15 hostages as "Europeans" but as Brits. Europe has more economic leverage on Iran than America has. The European Union is the Islamic Republic's biggest trading partner, accounting for 40 percent of Iranian exports. They are in a position to inflict serious pain on Tehran. But not for 15 British servicemen. There may be "European citizens," but there is no European polity.
OK, well, how about the United Nations? Those student demonstrators want the execution of "British aggressors." In fact, they're U.N. aggressors. HMS Cornwall is the base for multinational marine security patrols in the Gulf: a mission authorized by the United Nations. So what's the U.N. doing about this affront to its authority and (in the public humiliation of the captives) of the Geneva Conventions?
Short answer: Nothing.
Slightly longer answer: The British ambassador to the U.N. had wanted the Security Council to pass a resolution ''deploring'' Iran's conduct. But the Russians objected to all this hotheaded inflammatory lingo about ''deploring,'' and so the Security Council instead expressed its ''grave concern'' about the situation. That and $4.95 will get you a decaf latte. Ask the folks in Darfur what they've got to show for years of the U.N.'s "grave concerns" -- heavy on the graves, less so on the concern.
Yet, like the Americans, the British persist in trying to resolve real crises through pseudo-institutions. A bunch of unelected multinational technocrats can designate an entire continent as "citizens of Europe" but, as Pat Buchanan wrote the other day, "dry documents, no matter how eloquent, abstract ideas, no matter how beautiful, do not a nation make." Similarly, the West's transnational romantics can fantasize about "one-world government," but, given the constituent parts, it's likely to be a lot more like Syria writ large than Sweden. In fact, it already is.
And, at one level, the obstructionists have a point. Russia's interests in Iran are not the same as the United Kingdom's: Why should it subordinate its national policy for a few British sailors? Conversely, why should we subordinate ours to transnational process? If saving Darfur is the right thing to do, it doesn't become the wrong thing to do because the Chinese guy refuses to raise his hand. And Darfur is an internal region of a sovereign state. If the Security Council cannot even "deplore" an act of piracy on the high seas, then what is it for?
The U.N. will do nothing for men seized on a U.N.-sanctioned mission. The European Union will do nothing for its "European citizens." But if liberal transnationalism is a post-modern joke, it's not the only school of transnationalism out there. Iran's Islamic Revolution has been explicitly extraterritorial since the beginning: It has created and funded murderous proxies in Hezbollah, Hamas and both Shia and Sunni factions of the Iraq "insurgency." It has spent a fortune in the stans of Central Asia radicalizing previously somnolent Muslim populations. When Ayatollah Khomeini announced the fatwa against Salman Rushdie, it was not Iranians but British, Indian, Turkish, European, Asian and American Muslims who called for his death, firebombed bookstores, shot his publisher, fatally stabbed his translator and murdered anybody who got in their way.
So we live today in a world of one-way sovereignty: American, British and Iraqi forces in Iraq respect the Syrian and Iranian borders; the Syrians and Iranians do not respect the Iraqi border. Patrolling the Shatt al-Arab at a time of war, the Royal Navy operates under rules of engagement designed by distant fainthearts with an eye to the polite fictions of "international law": If you're in a ''warship,'' you can't wage war. If you're in a ''destroyer,'' don't destroy anything. If you're in a "frigate," you're frigging done for.
On Sept. 11, a New York skyscraper was brought down by the Egyptian leader of a German cell of an Afghan terror group led by a Saudi. Islamism is only the first of many globalized ideological viruses that will seep undetected across national frontiers in the years ahead. Meanwhile, we put our faith in meetings of foreign ministers.
"It is better to be making the news than taking it," wrote Winston Churchill in 1898. But his successors have gotten used to taking it, and the men who make the news well understand that.
© Mark Steyn 2007

http://www.suntimes.com/news/steyn/321825,CST-EDT-steyn01.article

Very interesting point of view I think. He hit the nail on the head!p-)

Kitsune
04-02-2007, 01:08 PM
Did he now ? This article is amazing only in so far as it manages to use even the present hostage situation for anti EU propaganda. Wow. So now, all of a sudden, these 15 guys are "European Citizens" and its the EU's fault that they are not released. May I perhaps point out that Britain is one of the most staunchly anti EU countries around and has a lot to do with the recent European inability to achieve a certain degree of unity that would translate to international influence and that in return could, perhaps, translate now to the release of those hostages?

But only perhaps. Because, what would the United States, the Super-Hyperpower, the Global Empire, the Greatest Power the world has ever seen etc, etc, do if those 15 soldiers were American ones? Would they, under the shining-knight-in-armor Bush II, manage to coerce Iran to set the Marines free? Hmmm? If that should be so, why does America not use its overwhelming, incomparable power to help its British ally? Considering that Britain used to trot loyally and with waggling tail just behind its master all the way, one could surmise that the US would owe the English that much. So, make it happen America.

Or is it, that even America can't do that? After all, the USA, with all its incredible military strength, seems to be unable to control only so much as Baghdad and the area around, so it might be possible that they just as helpless as everyone else is in the present crisis. And in that case, it is highly unfair to assume that the weak and fracturized EU should now be able to come to the rescue.
Which means that the article above is nothing short of another attempt at anti European rant that shifts between the classification of those 15 prisoners as "British" or "European" as it suits the author.

But there may be a lesson here. The European Union is fracturized precisely because of those countries that are constantly trying to hinder every development of unity. Countries like Britain. It is weak because some of its countries still indulge in self serving pettiness and self gratifying pompousness. Countries like France. And it is militarily weak because of countries that are refusing to spend money for a capable military and instead prefer to dodge the burden of responsibility that comes with using it, countries that, despite their economic strength, prefer to let themselves be protected instead of helping to protect others. Countries like Germany.

If these traits could only be overcome by the nations that make up Europe, the resulting Union would be so much stronger. And this other, stronger Europe, that has learned again to stand on its own feet, could, in conjunction with an other, reformed America, that has learned again to be a teamplayer, be an overwhelming force on this world that would be almost irresistable. A force so strong that it could even make Iran set the 15 Western soldiers free.

juliuspret
04-02-2007, 07:43 PM
Did he now ? This article is amazing only in so far as it manages to use even the present hostage situation for anti EU propaganda. Wow. So now, all of a sudden, these 15 guys are "European Citizens" and its the EU's fault that they are not released. May I perhaps point out that Britain is one of the most staunchly anti EU countries around and has a lot to do with the recent European inability to achieve a certain degree of unity that would translate to international influence and that in return could, perhaps, translate now to the release of those hostages?

But only perhaps. Because, what would the United States, the Super-Hyperpower, the Global Empire, the Greatest Power the world has ever seen etc, etc, do if those 15 soldiers were American ones? Would they, under the shining-knight-in-armor Bush II, manage to coerce Iran to set the Marines free? Hmmm? If that should be so, why does America not use its overwhelming, incomparable power to help its British ally? Considering that Britain all the way during Americas recent...endevours...used to trot loyally and with waggling tail just behind its master, one could surmise that the US would owe the English that much. So, make it happen America.

Or is it, that even America can't do that? After all, the USA, with all its incredible military strength, seems to be unable to control only so much as Baghdad and the area around, so it might be possible that they just as helpless as everyone else is in the present crisis. And in that case, it is highly unfair to assume that the weak and fracturized EU should now be able to come to the rescue.
Which means that the article above is nothing short of another attempt at anti European rant that shifts between the assessement of those 15 prisoners as "British" or "European" as it suits the author.

But there may be a lesson here. The European Union is fracturized precisely because of those countries that are constantly trying to hinder every development of unity. Countries like Britain. It is weak because some of its countries still indulge in self serving pettiness and self gratifying pompousness. Countries like France. And it is militarily weak because of countries that are refusing to spend money for a capable military and instead prefer to dodge the burden of responsibility that comes with using it, countries that, despite their economic strength, prefer to let themselves be protected instead of helping to protect others. Countries like Germany.

If these traits could only be overcome by the nations that make up Europe, the resulting Union would be so much stronger. And this other, stronger Europe, that has learned again to stand on its own feet, could, in conjunction with an other, reformed America, that has learned again to be a teamplayer, be an overwhelming force on this world that it would be almost irresistable. A force so strong that it could even make Iran set the 15 Western soldiers free.

This is a VERY impressive rebuttle of the OP's article!!

Thank you for writing it as it was so much more refreshing that a lof of the EU bashing so frequently seen these days!

Did you hear that....the EU is weak and cant work for you because you have to much pride in your own damn countries people!!!!

Belrick
04-02-2007, 08:10 PM
None'the'less his main point. (nice job in missing it by the way) is that as far as larger communities are concerned (i.e. EU, UN) it's every nation for himself.

p.s. If you think that an America's incredible military is strong (nice job at sarcasm BTW) when running at 4% of GDP then what would you label the same armed forces that cannot control much more than Baghdad when running at %50 of GDP such as what happened during WW2 and no longer hampered by bleeding heart liberals and more concerned about actually winning?

solidarnosc
04-02-2007, 08:15 PM
Yeah first The Sun is one the biggest oponent of a single EU foreign policy and now they complain Europe doesn't speak strong enough with one voice. They complain that something doesn't exist that they don't want. I mean this is probably the first time in history of The Sun it considers British soldiers as "Europeans".

I ofcourse hope those sailors and marines get released as soon as possible and if Europe could help they should.

Belrick
04-02-2007, 08:26 PM
You know, maybe you guys swallowed a different pill to me when given the choice by Morpheus but in MY reality the United Kingdom IS a member of the European Union regardless how much of a difficult member they are.

Feel free to take a blue pill and join me in the real world but untill then your bitc hing sounds like nothing more than small boys sulking.
How about swallowing the bullet and leading by example and showing a united front?

Calanen
04-02-2007, 10:18 PM
It seemed to me that Germany and France were doing what they could to help the UK. Or am I missing something. Even Turkey is trying to help. But there is a fineline between hindering and helping, and these other countries have to tread carefully not to make things worse. So it's easy to criticise them for not doing 'more' when perhaps they are doing just enough.

a_very_ex_STAB
04-03-2007, 07:53 AM
Mark Steyn is the archetypal neocon gobsh1te. A real laptop 'bombardier'

Kitsune
04-03-2007, 10:00 AM
You know, maybe you guys swallowed a different pill to me when given the choice by Morpheus but in MY reality the United Kingdom IS a member of the European Union regardless how much of a difficult member they are.

No one has said otherwise. The European Union is officially supporting the British demand that the Iranians set the prisoners free. Admittedly, this hasn't prompted Iran to do this instantly. Now, it does seem very unfair to expect an instant success here, considering that everyone else, including the US, seems to be somewhat helpless. But that is what Steyn says: all of a sudden, he declares this situation to be a sort of Litmus test for the whole concept of the European Union. "If the EU can't get our soldiers out, what good is it for?" From this now directly follows that the European Union is good for nothing, which, I suspect, is precisely the conclusion he wanted to arrive at. Plus, I think it isn't unfair if one mentions in a rebuff the ongoing British (and Steynian) eurosceptic stance as one reason why the EU is weaker as it could be in such matters.

a_very_ex_STAB
04-03-2007, 12:41 PM
Mark Steyn seems to have conveniently forgotten the kind of compromises that Ronald Reagan's US gov made with the Iranians to get people back :roll:

Jobu
04-03-2007, 02:34 PM
Yeah first The Sun is one the biggest oponent of a single EU foreign policy and now they complain Europe doesn't speak strong enough with one voice. They complain that something doesn't exist that they don't want. I mean this is probably the first time in history of The Sun it considers British soldiers as "Europeans".

I ofcourse hope those sailors and marines get released as soon as possible and if Europe could help they should.

This was from a columnist in the Chicago Sun-Times, not the Sun from the UK. Two completely different sources.

As I see it, the EU has not lived up to its responsibilities. If they were American sailors from Oregon, would the rest of the US say "oh well, let Oregon deal with it"?

Brussels needs to do something and show some unity.

Kaerry
04-03-2007, 02:48 PM
As I see it, the EU has not lived up to its responsibilities. If they were American sailors from Oregon, would the rest of the US say "oh well, let Oregon deal with it"?

That must be the comparison of the century.

Indiana Jones
04-03-2007, 02:52 PM
As I see it, the EU has not lived up to its responsibilities. If they were American sailors from Oregon, would the rest of the US say "oh well, let Oregon deal with it"?

Brussels needs to do something and show some unity.
rofl
An impressive display of ignorance.

Niels
04-03-2007, 02:52 PM
As I see it, the EU has not lived up to its responsibilities. If they were American sailors from Oregon, would the rest of the US say "oh well, let Oregon deal with it"?

Brussels needs to do something and show some unity.
:cantbeli:........

perdurabo
04-03-2007, 03:03 PM
This was from a columnist in the Chicago Sun-Times, not the Sun from the UK. Two completely different sources.

As I see it, the EU has not lived up to its responsibilities. If they were American sailors from Oregon, would the rest of the US say "oh well, let Oregon deal with it"?

Brussels needs to do something and show some unity.
this comparision would be in place if federal govt. wouldnt have a single soldier, if all states woud have diffrent nationalities, languages, powers, rights etc, then if Oregonians would be held by Iran, Washington would have to ask Florida and New York to send their cariers and troops near to show force and unity... p-)

Jobu
04-03-2007, 03:14 PM
this comparision would be in place if federal govt. wouldnt have a single soldier, if all states woud have diffrent nationalities, languages, powers, rights etc, then if Oregonians would be held by Iran, Washington would have to ask Florida and New York to send their cariers and troops near to show force and unity... p-)

It's not as far off as you imagine. Each state here has its own government complete with capital, supreme court, executive, and legislature. Each state has its own military under the command of the governor, etc. Most of us put them aside and see ourselves as Americans first (except maybe Texans).

I think the fact that Brussels does not unite Europe in the same manner is a failure of the EU. You have 15 EU members taken hostage and the EU won't even freeze Iranian imports or exports. How much faith do you have that the EU would stand up for any member state then? If Greece and Turkey came to blows, could Athens count on the EU to act as one?

Show some unity, don't wait for the USA to make something happen because you're just gonna complain about it afterwards. After the failure in former Yugoslavia, this is a perfect opportunity for Brussels to step up to the plate. If the EU is truly trying to be a counter-power to the USA, they have to act in situations like this.

Mastermind
04-03-2007, 03:30 PM
1) Nice job guys of attacking the messinger rather than addressing the content of the message....that always tells me when there is something interesting in there to actually read. 2) Steyn is absolutely right on. What really is the correct course to take against aggressive states? To let them go on blasting your citizenry to bits? To meekly succumb to their relentless suicide bombers, kidnappings and insistance on crushing your hard won freedoms? Perhaps we should be more like cattle than wolves in dealing with their insane religious demands within our own internal borders?

Western civilization was not won by being meek...it will most certainly be lost by being meek. If the EU is worth one single Euro, then it would rise immediately to defend any EU citizen...regardless of borders....an EU citizen is an EU citizen if it is to mean anything at all. A German defending a Brit...a Frenchman...a Belgain...rediculous? To stand aside while high priacy is taking place right under your own nose against your very own is an act of nonsense when you have all the power necessary to thwart it.

Unity in the face of adversity is what being a people is all about. The term "I am a British citizen" once meant something of value...The same as American or Frenchman or German or just about any serious citizenship of a civilized nation meant something. Now...it very nearly means absolutely nothing.

Welcome to the relativistic world folks...it's a very dark smelly gutless place...but, at least everyone is of equal value. Be carful walking near the dim corners...you find cowards lurking there pretending to be protectors of your rights. MM

Vandervahn
04-03-2007, 04:12 PM
Stop right there.
The EU wouldn´t, shouldn´t and COULD NOT do anything else than what the UK is spearheading. The Brits themselves are still treading lightly in this issue (and has also advised the US to do the same) - why should the EU then go ahead with threats, embargos and whatnot? To prove their manliness?

The UK rests assured that whatever steps they may or may not push for in the future will have the unanimous support of the EU, as they have now - with the exception of a full blown military posturing for which there are too many variables still uncertain.


Jobu: You are not making sense. The EU is NOT a nation, its a supranational organization. Such comparisons to the USA and its federal states are not valid. The way the EU goes is dictated from the bottom by its member states including the UK, and not the other way around as you suggest it should.