QLZ-87 35mm AUTOMATIC GRENADE LAUNCHER

[J-10]

http://mil.eastday.com/eastday/mil/node3042/node18061/images/00053066.jpg

http://pic.tiexue.net/origin/2004_1/2004_1_17_19499.jpg

http://image2.sina.com.cn/jc/2003-07-24/3_27-1-3-667_20030724152146.jpe

http://jczs.sina.com.cn/2003-07-24/3_27-1-319-139111_2003072415208.jpe

http://photo.sohu.com/27/71/Img201017127.jpg

http://showguns.nease.net/mqtj%2011/qt/tx/02.jpg

Weight:12kg(light)~20kg(heavy)
Magazine:6, 12 Drum, 15 Drum
Caliber: 35mm
Initial Muzzle Velocity: 200m/s
Maximum range: 1750m

http://pic.tiexue.net/pic.aspx?id=28181

http://www.pengpeng.com.cn/qiang/14.jpg

[Claymore]

Interesting weapon. Thanks for info.

[n.ignomo]

J-10, could you tell us how many yuans (= in €/¤) China spends for military purpose ? Thx

[FinnishMF]

yens :D

[Pille1234]

J-10, could you tell us how many yens (= in €/¤) China spends for military purpose ? Thx

That's probably something you should ask the cia, bnd, dgse, mi6 or how all the letters agencies are called.

[Uninen]

Isnt "Yen" Japanese money? ;)

P.S. yuan is Chinese...

[J-10]

J-10, could you tell us how many yens (= in €/¤) China spends for military purpose ? Thx

￥=Yuan=RMB :D

I don't know. But I can mention that China do the same project would be much cheaper than the west(US/EU). Low cost production, so that, welcome any west countries make military co-operation with China, hahah :D

[RSK]

I'd like to see it in action (not on the recieving side though!)

[seruriermarshal]

http://fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/mk19.jpg

http://fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/mk-19-andy3.jpg

http://fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/mk-19-dvic561.jpg

http://fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/mk-19-andy4.jpg

It like MK19 ?

;)

[J-10]

MK19
Caliber: 40 mm
Muzzle Velocity:244 m/s
Weight: 34kg~~42.5kg
Max effective range: 2200 m

Too heavy, one soldier hardly move it.

[seruriermarshal]

MK19

Manufacturer: Saco Defense Industries
Length: 43.1 inches (109.47 centimeters)
Weight:
Gun: 72.5 pounds (32.92 kilograms)
Cradle (MK64 Mod 5): 21.0 pounds (9.53 kilograms)
Tripod: 44.0 pounds (19.98 kilograms)
Total: 137.5 pounds (62.43 kilograms)
Muzzle velocity: 790 feet (240.69 meters) per second
Bore diameter: 40mm
Maximum range: 2200 meters
Maximum effective range: 1600 meters
Rates of fire:
Cyclic: 325-375 rounds per minute
Rapid: 60 rounds per minute
Sustained: 40 rounds per minute
Unit Replacement Cost: $13,758

;)

[Ghostwolf]

Probably similar to the Russian AGS-17 grenade machinegun,
30kg without the tripod and 30mm caliber. But still the Type 87
grenade machinegun is lighter in design weight and fires much
larger caliber rounds.

http://www.arcus-bg.com/images/products/ammunition/5_30mm_ags_17/4_30_b.jpg

[seruriermarshal]

http://www.nd.edu/~bhenness/AGS17GMG.jpg

Yes , like Russian AGS-17 .

[J-10]

Even if the Type QLZ-87 caliber 35mm is samll than M19-3 40mm, but

QLZ-87 round weight 250g, effective kill radius:11m, break armor: 80mm.
MK19-3 round weight 340g, effective kill radius:7m, break armor: 51mm.

So that MK19-3 need improving.

[GazB]

The AGS-17 weighs 18-20kgs depending upon the model.

The newer AGS-30 weighs 16kgs.


But still the Type 87
grenade machinegun is lighter in design weight and fires much
larger caliber rounds.

Calibre is not the most important thing regarding HE grenade ammo. FOr example the 30mm grenade the Russians use was found to be more effective than the American 40mm grenade as it was longer. For plunging fire the nose is completely taken up by the fuse so it is the side walls of the grenade that create most of the effective fragments and teh 30mm Russian grenade was much longer than the american grenade and produced a better pattern of fragments.

[seruriermarshal]

And the MK 19 fires six types of cartridges: M430I / M430A1 high-explosive dual-purpose grenades, M383 high-explosive grenade, M385I / M918 training practice, and M922/M922A1 dummy rounds.

M430 HEDP

Identification-Olive drab with yellow-olive and yellow markings.
Fuze-Point initiating, base detonating (PIBD) M549.
Filler-Composition B.
Arming distance-18 to 30 meters.
Kill radius-Approximately 5 meters.
Maximum range-2,200 meters.
Wound radius-Approximately 15 meters.
Maximum effective range-1,500 meters.

M383 / M384 40mm HE (high-explosive) cartridges

HE M383 or M383E1. These rounds are linked with M16A2 links, DODAC B571.
HE M384. These rounds are linked with M16A2 links, DODAC B470.
Fuze-Primer detonating (PD) M533.
Filler-Composition AS.
Arming distance-18 to 36 meters.
Blast radius-15 meters.
Maximum range-2,200 meters.

M385 / M918 40mm practice rounds
Propellant-M2.
Maximum range-2,200 meters.
Maximum effective range-1,500 meters.


M922/M922A1 40mm Dummy Rounds

;)

[J-10]

The M383 / M384 40mm HE (high-explosive) cartridges are better :D

[Haiw]

J-10, could you tell us how many yuans (= in €/¤) China spends for military purpose ? Thx
From CIA world factbook:


Military expenditures - dollar figure:
$55.91 billion (FY02)
Military expenditures - percent of GDP:
4.3% (FY02)

But that's 2002 numbers, and I'm pretty sure they increased military spending not too long ago, no?

[Tony Williams]

This is from the 'Amendments to Rapid Fire' on my website:

"Singapore Technologies have introduced the SLWAGL (Super Light Weight Automatic Grenade Launcher) which weighs only 14 kg, is 1 metre long (with a 40cm barrel) and fires at 350 rpm. It uses a "Recoil Mitigation System" which reduces the peak recoil impulse by about 50% over conventional AGLs. Since most AGLs have either a long-recoil or API blowback system, which are inherently low-recoil anyway, this suggests that the weapon might use a differential recoil system. An associated 40mm range-fused grenade is derived from the Oerlikon-Rheimetall AHEAD system; they have been working in collaboration to produce the grenade and fire control system.

http://www.quarry.nildram.co.uk/CISSLWAGL.jpg

General Dynamics Armament Systems has introduced a new 40mm AGL, the MK47, which is intended to replace the ubiquitous MK19. It weighs only 17.5 instead of 35kg and is more compact. Rate of fire is reduced from 325-375 to 225-300 rpm. Interestingly, the percentage of the weight recoiling is quoted as 55 rather than 22, which suggests that it uses a long-recoil rather than API blowback mechanism. It was designed in conjunction with programmable air-bursting ammunition developed by NAMMO, and an advanced electronic fire control system from Computing Devices Canada. It would therefore appear to match the capabilities of the 25mm OCSW...(see Page 210). A contract for its production was awarded by US Special Operations Command in October 2002. Oerlikon Contraves and Singapore Technologies Kinetics are developing airburst ammunition for the 40x53SR AGL round. This has a dual-function electronic timed or impact fuze, with the timing have a range of between 40 and 1,600 m. The shell contains at least 330 tungsten balls each weighing 0.25 g, and is designed to be effective against the 'NATO Protected Man'.

http://www.quarry.nildram.co.uk/PICT0252.jpg
http://www.quarry.nildram.co.uk/PICT0251.jpg

A new approach to individual firepower is represented by the RAG-30, produced by Technopol. This is based around the 30x29B VOG-17 and VOG-17M grenade cartridges used by the AGS-17, AGS-30 and AG-17A, but is a light, shoulder-fired weapon intended for one-man operation using its built-in bipod. It weighs just 11.7 kg empty or 13.2 kg with a full, 5-round, box magazine (fitted above the breech, as with the Bren Gun). Overall length is 100cm with butt extended, 75 cm collapsed, and it has a 30cm barrel. Rate of burst fire is 300 rpm (single-shot fire is also available) and it has a maximum range of 600m with iron sights, 1,700m with optical sights. A similar weapon is now being offered, the 'Arbalet', also using the Russian 30x29B ammunition. It has a drum magazine (10 rounds) under the gun, and weighs 10 kg empty."

Tony Williams: Military gun and ammunition website (http://www.quarry.nildram.co.uk) and Discussion forum (http://forums.delphiforums.com/autogun/messages/)

[GazB]

A similar weapon is now being offered, the 'Arbalet', also using the Russian 30x29B ammunition. It has a drum magazine (10 rounds) under the gun, and weighs 10 kg empty."

This:

http://www.sinopa.ee/sor/bo001/bo12gr/bo12gr14/arbalet01.jpg

Similar weapons can be found at:

http://www.sinopa.ee/sor/bo001/bo002/bo002.htm


But I think this looks more practical:

http://www.shipunov.com/eng/str/grenades/images/gm94_0.jpg

http://www.shipunov.com/eng/str/grenades/images/gm94_2.jpg

(Note the bottom tube is the barrel with the tube magazine on top.)

[mustamato]

General Dynamics Armament Systems has introduced a new 40mm AGL, the MK47, which is intended to replace the ubiquitous MK19. It weighs only 17.5 instead of 35kg and is more compact. Rate of fire is reduced from 325-375 to 225-300 rpm. Interestingly, the percentage of the weight recoiling is quoted as 55 rather than 22, which suggests that it uses a long-recoil rather than API blowback mechanism. It was designed in conjunction with programmable air-bursting ammunition developed by NAMMO, and an advanced electronic fire control system from Computing Devices Canada. It would therefore appear to match the capabilities of the 25mm OCSW...(see Page 210). A contract for its production was awarded by US Special Operations Command in October 2002. Oerlikon Contraves and Singapore Technologies Kinetics are developing airburst ammunition for the 40x53SR AGL round. This has a dual-function electronic timed or impact fuze, with the timing have a range of between 40 and 1,600 m. The shell contains at least 330 tungsten balls each weighing 0.25 g, and is designed to be effective against the 'NATO Protected Man'.

http://www.quarry.nildram.co.uk/PICT0252.jpg
http://www.quarry.nildram.co.uk/PICT0251.jpg

There is some Swedish connection to it as well, Bofors I think (yes yes, I know
who owns them these days)...

http://www.k3.mil.se/images/local/jw4lbbobsold1.jpg

It seems that many countries now are waiting to adopt new AGL´s, in example
Finland and Norway are waiting for NATO to standardize for a new modern 40 mm
ammunition. But both these countries are leaning towards H&K´s AGL, the weight
is not an issue since they will be mounted on vehicles. And atleast Finland has these...

http://tietokannat.mil.fi/lumimyrsky02/get2data.php3?id=69
...AGS-17, which are light enough to be man-portable... :)

http://images.google.se/images?q=tbn:tYH4-PJZBpoJ:www.mil.fi/tiedotus/tiedotteet/images/ammus_p.jpg
The grenade compared to a 7.62 x 39. The history
of these grenades is not that great in the Finnish Defence
Forces, in 2001 one soldier was killed and another injured
when one them detonated just after leaving the barrel

http://tietokannat.mil.fi/lumimyrsky03/include/thumbnail.php?id=83
Found a pic of one of the HK AGL´s in Finland by the way, I think these are
assigned to a unit for field testing

[fokket]

So that MK19-3 need improving.

So Does your English :D

just kidding...

[J-10]

A similar weapon is now being offered, the 'Arbalet', also using the Russian 30x29B ammunition. It has a drum magazine (10 rounds) under the gun, and weighs 10 kg empty."

This:

http://www.sinopa.ee/sor/bo001/bo12gr/bo12gr14/arbalet01.jpg

Similar weapons can be found at:

http://www.sinopa.ee/sor/bo001/bo002/bo002.htm


But I think this looks more practical:

http://www.shipunov.com/eng/str/grenades/images/gm94_0.jpg

http://www.shipunov.com/eng/str/grenades/images/gm94_2.jpg

(Note the bottom tube is the barrel with the tube magazine on top.)

Very interesting weapon, looks simple and practical.

[J-10]

So that MK19-3 need improving.

So Does your English :D

just kidding...

I am improving English, hahah rofl j/k

[J-10]

the weight
is not an issue since they will be mounted on vehicles.
...AGS-17, which are light enough to be man-portable... :)


Yes.

But, if you will fight in mountains and walk a long distance....

[HELEX]

Something like this is good for carrying.

http://www.swatgear.com/lesslethal/products/images/dt1319.gif

[Tony Williams]

The history
of these grenades is not that great in the Finnish Defence
Forces, in 2001 one soldier was killed and another injured
when one them detonated just after leaving the barrel

Yes, I have an article from 'Soldier of Fortune' magazine concerning a test of the AGS-17 and it is very rude about the inherent safety of the gun and ammunition. I think that the tester would have preferred to shoot it from a long distance away, using a cord!

Tony Williams: Military gun and ammunition website (http://www.quarry.nildram.co.uk) and Discussion forum (http://forums.delphiforums.com/autogun/messages/)

[khukuri]

Something like this is good for carrying.

http://www.swatgear.com/lesslethal/products/images/dt1319.gif

our coastal rangers didnt like embecause the "shape" fo the weapon.
the shape made it uneasy to carry/hang to the side when doing something else

[GazB]

Very interesting weapon, looks simple and practical.

The top weapon called Arbalet is a full power 30mm weapon... no high/low pressure chambers like on the American 40mm grenade.
Its max range is 1,700m and the drum mag holds 10 rounds.

The other weapon is a development of the GM-94, a pump action weapon that has a range of about 400m and has a range of different ammo types including FAE.

[FLaKKeY]

wonder how it goes while hunting..