Photos show 'torture' at Abu Ghraib detention center

[American Patriot]

These are the photos that CBS aired.

WARNING: Some photos are graphic

1 (http://news.globalfreepress.com/movs/wonk/CBS/60Min/60MinII.US.IraqiTortured.09.jpg)
2 (http://news.globalfreepress.com/movs/wonk/CBS/60Min/60MinII.US.IraqiTortured.11.jpg)
3 (http://news.globalfreepress.com/movs/wonk/CBS/60Min/60MinII.US.IraqiTortured.03.jpg)
4 (http://news.globalfreepress.com/movs/wonk/CBS/60Min/60MinII.US.IraqiTortured.02.jpg)
5 (http://news.globalfreepress.com/movs/wonk/CBS/60Min/60MinII.US.IraqiTortured.01.jpg)
6 (http://news.globalfreepress.com/movs/wonk/CBS/60Min/60MinII.US.IraqiTortured.04.jpg)
7 (http://news.globalfreepress.com/movs/wonk/CBS/60Min/60MinII.US.IraqiTortured.5c.jpg)
8 (http://news.globalfreepress.com/movs/wonk/CBS/60Min/60MinII.US.IraqiTortured.5b.jpg)
9 (http://news.globalfreepress.com/movs/wonk/CBS/60Min/60MinII.US.IraqiTortured.5a.jpg)
10 (http://news.globalfreepress.com/movs/wonk/CBS/60Min/60MinII.US.IraqiTortured.06.jpg)
11 (http://news.globalfreepress.com/movs/wonk/CBS/60Min/60MinII.US.IraqiTortured.7a.jpg)
12 (http://news.globalfreepress.com/movs/wonk/CBS/60Min/60MinII.US.IraqiTortured.7b.jpg)
13 (http://news.globalfreepress.com/movs/wonk/CBS/60Min/60MinII.US.IraqiTortured.08.jpg)
14 (http://news.globalfreepress.com/movs/wonk/CBS/60Min/60MinII.US.IraqiTortured.10.jpg)

[Caraway]

So, did the TV programme reveal how those prisoners were "tortured", other than humiliateing them? Were they e.g. beaten?

[Abolith]

I don't think it really matters, The marines have always held themselves to a higher standard than that. However, I do know that those involved are going to do some time......

[American Patriot]

When I first saw the photos they looked like they were taken at a frat party.

Not saying it's ok to do this. It's obviously wrong and they will lose their jobs over there.

[HumanShield]

thats some messed up ****.. :cantbeli:

[scrybe]

I'm guessing the girl in the photos just shaved a few years off her military career...

[Uncle Chô]

Since not everyone on Earth does have access to CBS (incl. me ;)), here are the details behind the images from their Web site :


Last month, the U.S. Army announced 17 soldiers in Iraq, including a brigadier general, had been removed from duty after charges of mistreating Iraqi prisoners.

But the details of what happened have been kept secret, until now.

It turns out photographs surfaced showing American soldiers abusing and humiliating Iraqis being held at a prison near Baghdad. The Army investigated, and issued a scathing report.

Now, an Army general and her command staff may face the end of long military careers. And six soldiers are facing court martial in Iraq -- and possible prison time.

Correspondent Dan Rather talks to one of those soldiers. And, for the first time, 60 Minutes II will show some of the pictures that led to the Army investigation.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
According to the U.S. Army, one Iraqi prisoner was told to stand on a box with his head covered, wires attached to his hands. He was told that if he fell off the box, he would be electrocuted.

It was this picture, and dozens of others, that prompted an investigation by the U.S. Army. On Tuesday, 60 Minutes II asked Brig. Gen. Mark Kimmitt, deputy director of coalition operations in Iraq, what went wrong.

“Frankly, I think all of us are disappointed by the actions of the few,” says Kimmitt. “Every day, we love our soldiers, but frankly, some days we're not always proud of our soldiers."

For decades under Saddam Hussein, many prisoners who were taken to the Abu Ghraib prison never came out. It was the centerpiece of Saddam’s empire of fear, and those prisoners who did make it out told nightmarish tales of torture beyond imagining – and executions without reason.

60 Minutes II talked about the prison and shared pictures of what Americans did there with two men who have extensive interrogation experience: Former Marine Lt. Col. Bill Cowan and former CIA Bureau Chief Bob Baer.

"I visited Abu Ghraib a couple of days after it was liberated. It was the most awful sight I've ever seen. I said, ‘If there's ever a reason to get rid of Saddam Hussein, it's because of Abu Ghraib,'” says Baer. “There were bodies that were eaten by dogs, torture. You know, electrodes coming out of the walls. It was an awful place."

"We went into Iraq to stop things like this from happening, and indeed, here they are happening under our tutelage,” says Cowan.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
It was American soldiers serving as military police at Abu Ghraib who took these pictures. The investigation started when one soldier got them from a friend, and gave them to his commanders. 60 Minutes II has a dozen of these pictures, and there are many more – pictures that show Americans, men and women in military uniforms, posing with naked Iraqi prisoners.

There are shots of the prisoners stacked in a pyramid, one with a slur written on his skin in English.

In some, the male prisoners are positioned to simulate *** with each other. And in most of the pictures, the Americans are laughing, posing, pointing, or giving the camera a thumbs-up.

60 Minutes II was only able to contact one of the soldiers facing charges. But the Army says they are all in Iraq, awaiting court martial.

"What can the Army say specifically to Iraqis and others who are going to see this and take it personally," Rather asked Kimmitt, in an interview conducted by satellite from Baghdad.

"The first thing I’d say is we’re appalled as well. These are our fellow soldiers. These are the people we work with every day, and they represent us. They wear the same uniform as us, and they let their fellow soldiers down,” says Kimmitt.

“Our soldiers could be taken prisoner as well. And we expect our soldiers to be treated well by the adversary, by the enemy. And if we can't hold ourselves up as an example of how to treat people with dignity and respect … We can't ask that other nations to that to our soldiers as well."

“So what would I tell the people of Iraq? This is wrong. This is reprehensible. But this is not representative of the 150,000 soldiers that are over here,” adds Kimmitt. “I'd say the same thing to the American people... Don't judge your army based on the actions of a few."
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
One of the soldiers facing court martial is Army Reserve Staff Sgt. Chip Frederick.

Frederick is charged with maltreatment for allegedly participating in and setting up a photo, and for posing in a photograph by sitting on top of a detainee. He is charged with an indecent act for observing one scene. He is also charged with assault for allegedly striking detainees – and ordering detainees to strike each other.

60 Minutes II talked with him by phone from Baghdad, where he is awaiting court martial.

Frederick told us he will plead not guilty, claiming the way the Army was running the prison led to the abuse of prisoners.

“We had no support, no training whatsoever. And I kept asking my chain of command for certain things...like rules and regulations,” says Frederick. “And it just wasn't happening."

Six months before he faced a court martial, Frederick sent home a video diary of his trip across the country. Frederick, a reservist, said he was proud to serve in Iraq. He seemed particularly well-suited for the job at Abu Ghraib. He’s a corrections officer at a Virginia prison, whose warden described Frederick to us as “one of the best.”

Frederick says Americans came into the prison: “We had military intelligence, we had all kinds of other government agencies, FBI, CIA ... All those that I didn't even know or recognize."

Frederick's letters and email messages home also offer clues to problems at the prison. He wrote that he was helping the interrogators:

"Military intelligence has encouraged and told us 'Great job.' "

"They usually don't allow others to watch them interrogate. But since they like the way I run the prison, they have made an exception."

"We help getting them to talk with the way we handle them. ... We've had a very high rate with our style of getting them to break. They usually end up breaking within hours."
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
According to the Army’s own investigation, that’s what was happening. The Army found that interrogators asked reservists working in the prison to prepare the Iraqi detainees, physically and mentally, for questioning.

What, if any actions, are being taken against the interrogators?

"I hope the investigation is including not only the people who committed the crimes, but some of the people that might have encouraged these crimes as well,” says Kimmitt. “Because they certainly share some level of responsibility as well."

But so far, none of the interrogators at Abu Ghraib are facing criminal charges. In fact, a number of them are civilians, and military law doesn’t apply to them.

One of the civilian interrogators at Abu Ghraib was questioned by the Army, and he told investigators he had "broken several tables during interrogations, unintentionally," while trying to "fear up" prisoners. He denied hurting anyone.

In our phone conversation, 60 Minutes II asked Frederick whether he had seen any prisoners beaten.

“I saw things. We had to use force sometimes to get the inmates to cooperate, just like our rules of engagement said,” says Frederick. “We learned a little bit of Arabic, basic commands. And they didn't want to listen, so sometimes, you would just give them a little nudge or something like that just to get them to cooperate so we could get the mission accomplished."

Attorney Gary Myers and a judge advocate in Iraq are defending Frederick. They say he should never have been charged, because of the failure of his commanders to provide proper training and standards.

"The elixir of power, the elixir of believing that you're helping the CIA, for God's sake, when you're from a small town in Virginia, that's intoxicating,” says Myers. “And so, good guys sometimes do things believing that they are being of assistance and helping a just cause. ... And helping people they view as important."

Frederick says he didn't see a copy of the Geneva Convention rules for handling prisoners of war until after he was charged.

The Army investigation confirms that soldiers at Abu Ghraib were not trained at all in Geneva Convention rules. And most were reservists, part-time soldiers who didn't get the kind of specialized prisoner of war training given to regular Army members.

Frederick also says there were far too few soldiers there for the number of prisoners: “There was, when I left, there was over 900. And there was only five soldiers, plus two non-commissioned officers, in charge for those 900 -- over 900 inmates."

Rather asked Kimmitt about understaffing. "That doesn't condone individual acts of criminal behavior no matter how tired we are. No matter how stretched we are, that doesn't give us license and it doesn't give us the authority to break the law,” says Kimmitt.

“That may have been a contributing factor, but at the end of the day, this is probably more about leadership, supervision, setting standards, abiding by the Army values and understanding what's right, and having the guts to say what's right.”
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Brig. Gen. Janice Karpinsky ran Abu Ghraib for the Army. She was also in charge of three other Army prison facilities that housed thousands of Iraqi inmates.

The Army investigation determined that her lack of leadership and clear standards led to problems system wide. Karpinski talked with 60 Minutes’ Steve Kroft last October at Abu Ghraib, before any of this came out.

"This is international standards,” said Karpinski. “It's the best care available in a prison facility."

But the Army investigation found serious problems behind the scenes. The Army has photographs that show a detainee with wires attached to his genitals. Another shows a dog attacking an Iraqi prisoner. Frederick said that dogs were “used for intimidation factors.”

Part of the Army's own investigation is a statement from an Iraqi detainee who charges a translator - hired to work at the prison - with raping a male juvenile prisoner: "They covered all the doors with sheets. I heard the screaming. ...and the female soldier was taking pictures."

There is also a picture of an Iraqi man who appears to be dead -- and badly beaten.

"It's reprehensible that anybody would be taking a picture of that situation,” says Kimmitt.

But what about the situation itself?

“I don't know the facts surrounding what caused the bruising and the bleeding,” says Kimmitt. “If that is also one of the charges being brought against the soldiers, that too is absolutely unacceptable and completely outside of what we expect of our soldiers and our guards at the prisons."

Is there any indication that similar actions may have happened at other prisons? “I'd like to sit here and say that these are the only prisoner abuse cases that we're aware of, but we know that there have been some other ones since we've been here in Iraq,” says Kimmitt.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
When Saddam ran Abu Ghraib prison, Iraqis were too afraid to come ask for information on their family members.

When 60 Minutes II was there last month, hundreds had gathered outside the gates, worried about what is going on inside.

"We will be paid back for this. These people at some point will be let out,” says Cowan. “Their families are gonna know. Their friends are gonna know."

This is a hard story to have to tell when Americans are fighting and dying in Iraq. And for Cowan, it’s a personal issue. His son is an infantry soldier serving in Iraq for the last four months.

Rather asked Cowan what he would say to "that person who is sitting in their living room and saying, ‘I wish they wouldn't do this. It's undermining our troops and they shouldn't do it.’"

"If we don't tell this story, these kinds of things will continue. And we'll end up getting paid back 100 or 1,000 times over,” says Cowan. “Americans want to be proud of each and everything that our servicemen and women do in Iraq. We wanna be proud. We know they're working hard. None of us, now, later, before or during this conflict, should wanna let incidents like this just pass."

Kimmitt says the Army will not let what happened at Abu Ghraib just pass. What does he think is the most important thing for Americans to know about what has happened?

"I think two things. No. 1, this is a small minority of the military, and No. 2, they need to understand that is not the Army,” says Kimmitt. “The Army is a values-based organization. We live by our values. Some of our soldiers every day die by our values, and these acts that you see in these pictures may reflect the actions of individuals, but by God, it doesn't reflect my army."

Two weeks ago, 60 Minutes II received an appeal from the Defense Department, and eventually from the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, Gen. Richard Myers, to delay this broadcast -- given the danger and tension on the ground in Iraq.

60 Minutes II decided to honor that request, while pressing for the Defense Department to add its perspective to the incidents at Abu Ghraib prison. This week, with the photos beginning to circulate elsewhere, and with other journalists about to publish their versions of the story, the Defense Department agreed to cooperate in our report.

[Mr Gently Benevolent]

So who are the pair of dumb ****s in the photos that are having all the fun what branch are they from. This is not clever. :|

[Threelions]

Wow. Thats pretty messed up. I have never understood why people are dumb enough to photograph their own retarded acts of stupidity. Maybe when Iraq is "free" these prisoners will be able to turn around and sue the snot out of these numbnut guards.

Cheers

[scm77]

I think the torture was they had to smell each other naked? rofl

That's just wrong.

[LJK]

****ing idiets...

[Threelions]

“We had no support, no training whatsoever. And I kept asking my chain of command for certain things...like rules and regulations,” says Frederick. “And it just wasn't happening."


That is the stupidest excuse for his actions. COMMONSENSE!!!! I could make a guess at a few of the rules..

1)dont stack naked prisoners on top of eac other.

2)dont punch or other wise abuse prisoner.

3) if you are going to force prisoners to punch each other DONT TELL ANYONE!!! (The first rule of fight club is. Dont talk about fight club)

Should i continue with this list of rules??

Cheers

[Uncle Sam]

I'm guessing the girl in the photos just shaved a few years off her military career...

More like shaved any career. Everyone involved, from the top down, are **** ed.

[American Patriot]

Looks like they're giving the universal sign of 'I know I'm going to get fired for doing this' which is the thumbs up and big grin. rofl

[SeanAshi]

The French would consider this 4 play

[Uninen]

Its time for one tiny I TOLD YOU SO! And you called me as f**khead.... :backhand:

[Uncle Sam]

Its time for one tiny I TOLD YOU SO! And you called me as f**khead.... :backhand:

stfu! I bet you were that kid in class, ya know, the one that took everyones name down when the teacher left the room, for throwing paper airplanes and shootin' spit balls at you....

[Uncle Chô]

The French would consider this 4 play
:cantbeli: It is not a matter of nationality. War just reaveals the dark side of a man (woman). Same kind of sh*** happened in every conflict everywhere. This story surfaced in Iraq. Indochina, Algeria, Africa had their toll too.

[Dalleer]

When I first saw the photos they looked like they were taken at a frat party.

Not saying it's ok to do this. It's obviously wrong and they will lose their jobs over there.

Heh heh, when I saw a couple of those photos as well I thought "Wow, those marines have some hardcore parties going on..."

Then I saw the topic, "Oh, this was about torture..."

In any case, I hope those two "torturers" get lost in the Sunni-Triangle at night...

[SeanAshi]

Its time for one tiny I TOLD YOU SO! And you called me as f**kheadUninen this is propaganda right? ;)

[Laworkerbee]

Moron's, I hope they go to jail for this!

After all the hard work, sacrifice, and good will of Coalition troops in Iraq, this is the kind of crap that will be remembered!.

She looks like a sadist in these pics

[Upfrontreporting]

This is so wrong :cantbeli: Those ****tards just blew the reputation of the whole coalition back to the stoneage. I really hope they will be punished hard :fork:



regards
Upfrontreporting

[MEGR]

These folks are disgraceful to the US military. Whats with this naked crap. These folks are sick, and deserve more than a court martial.

[RomanS]

thats awesome

man pyramid :lol: :lol: :lol:

[DPGLAW]

Why did they take pictures, after what the Iraqi's did to some of our prisoners in GW1, I dont really give a **** what our soldiers did to them this go round. However, they were pretty stupid to take photos of thier antics.....they should of done it without the cameras and they would of been fine. Giving the gov't evidence to prosecute you is not the brightest thing

[ibstolidude]

Its time for one tiny I TOLD YOU SO! And you called me as f**khead.... :backhand:
What are you talking about??

[hank]

Did any of you watch the story? Uninen? I told you you are a stupidass and nothing that Rather reported changes that. The current allegations are against 5 NG MPs that worked at Abu Graib. A female General has also been charged with derelicition for not stopping it.

Also, the Staff Sergeant charged says much of wht they did was at the instruction of the CIA, FBI, etc. To me that is the scariest. No Army personell oversaw the interrogations even though they were in Army custody.

The parties that took these photos are in touble according to Kimmit. As it should be.

hank

[Uncle Sam]

The soldiers who did the abusing are Reservists from the 320th MP Battalion assigned the 800th Military Police Brigade (EPW)

[Uninen]

ibstolidude,

What im talking about? Well... what im talking about is that ive said that "they" do this in Iraq, in Afghanistan and in Gitmo.

And im right, yet mostly "youve" just called me as "what i said" and said that "im full of shyte".

http://personal.inet.fi/koti/uninen/uploads/Sekalaisii/CUBA_Vacation.jpg

;)

Torture is torture and it bad... M'kay?

And im glad that so many here agree with me on this.

[RomanS]

This is SANTA CLAUS academy come on Unien

http://personal.inet.fi/koti/uninen/uploads/Sekalaisii/CUBA_Vacation.jpg

[Trident-za]

I think some people are missing the point. Is this is bad as it could have been? No? They could have done a lot worse... but so what? Is it responsible behaviour? No? and, unfortunately this stuff gets remembered... and played again and again in the anti-US media. One small propoganda victory for the enemy. :(

Only saving grace is that the US military is gonna kick the culprits' asses, but this won't mean a whole lot in the media war.

This 4th generation war stuff is fought on more fronts than the military one... unfortunately, the coaliton only seems to be winning that single front.

[Uncle Sam]

The three soldiers, all from Pennsylvania, were scheduled to face courts-martial this month but opted instead to submit to a nonjudicial hearing, in which their conduct was judged by a commander without a jury, Lt. Col. Vic Harris said. Such hearings are common practice, he said.

Brig. Gen. Ennis Whitehead III, the acting commander of the 143rd Transportation Command, found the three soldiers had maltreated prisoners at Camp Bucca, southern Iraq, on May 12. He demoted two of the soldiers and ordered that all three forfeit their salaries for two months.

The general found that Master Sgt. Lisa Marie Girman, 35, of Hazelton, Pa., knocked a prisoner to the ground, ``repeatedly kicking him in the groin, abdomen, and head, and encouraging her subordinate soldiers to do the same,'' Harris said.

Girman received an ``other-than-honorable conditions'' discharge from her immediate commander.


Staff Sgt. Scott A. McKenzie, 38, of Clearfield, Pa., was found to have dragged a prisoner by his shoulders and then to have held his legs apart ``and encouraging others to kick him in the groin while other U.S. soldiers kicked him in the abdomen and head,'' Harris said.

McKenzie was also found to have thrown the detainee face-down to the ground and have stepped on ``his previously injured arm.''

The general also found McKenzie made ``a false sworn statement to a special agent of the U.S. Army Criminal Investigation Division.''

McKenzie was demoted to sergeant and later received a ``general, under honorable conditions'' discharge.

Spc. Timothy F. Canjar, 21, of Moscow, Pa., was found to have made a false statement to the army's criminal investigators and to have held a detainee's legs apart ``while others kicked him in the groin, in addition to ``violently twisting his previously injured arm and causing him to scream in pain.

Canjar was demoted to private - a rank two lower than specialist - and received a ``general, under honorable conditions'' discharge from his commander, Harris said.

The findings were handed down at Camp Arifjan in Kuwait on Dec. 29. The three soldiers have now returned to the United States.

A fourth soldier was charged in the same case, but Sgt. Shawna Edmondson, 24, requested and received an ``other-than-honorable'' discharge from the military last year rather than face a court-martial.

They have already been dealt with.

[ShadowNeo]

http://personal.inet.fi/koti/uninen/uploads/Sekalaisii/CUBA_Vacation.jpg


Oooooh you saved that picture from when I made it ages ago :D .

[Uninen]

ShadowNeo,

Yeah.. it was "funny".

PermskiiOMON,

LoL, i think you know this method, and if you dont let me tell you: its quite effective, cruel and its torture.

As the odds are that one subjected to this will get slipt personality and ****. Or put it simply, one will go totally insane. Break.

[mustamato]

So, did the TV programme reveal how those prisoners were "tortured", other than humiliateing them? Were they e.g. beaten?

http://news.globalfreepress.com/movs/wonk/CBS/60Min/60MinII.US.IraqiTortured.01.jpg

In this case the Iraqi was told that if he fell to the ground he would be killed,
because the floor was metallic and he had these electric cables attached to him.
That goes beyond "humiliation" to me. This is simply torture.

Must feel great to be liberated.

[RomanS]

what is always up with this crappy quality filming, when it comes to cool moments like this?

They do have 11 megapixel cameras this days. Even the cheepest 4 megapixel costs not over $300.

Come on marines, get some better shots of the show.

[Longbranch]

These are the acts which were caught on film. Anything else happen without a camera around?

[nerdman]

Its time for one tiny I TOLD YOU SO! And you called me as f**khead.... :backhand:

Dude you were at Abu Gharib when this was going on? Is that how you knew all along?

Way to be the bigger person.



Anyways... they should be promptly discharged from the service or worse.

Here's an idea... lock them up in the Abu Gharib prison for... oh say 6 months and have some Iraqis come by every once and a while and do similar things to them.

[He219]

Not Marines, Permski; ARMY.

Either way, that is way wrong. They have disgraced themselves and their nation.

Demonstrating Saddam's Abu Ghraib Prison torture/electrecution technique, regardless if there was no power supplied to it, through forced demonstration on unwitty prisoners, if that was the case, is just wrong.

Also, demeaning prisoners by photographing them **** and in compromising positions is just sick. They should throw the 'book' at those responsible.

:|

[TALOS]

ibstolidude,

What im talking about? Well... what im talking about is that ive said that "they" do this in Iraq, in Afghanistan and in Gitmo.

And im right, yet mostly "youve" just called me as "what i said" and said that "im full of shyte".

http://personal.inet.fi/koti/uninen/uploads/Sekalaisii/CUBA_Vacation.jpg

;)

Torture is torture and it bad... M'kay?

And im glad that so many here agree with me on this.

Notice the big difference between American response and other countries Uninen? yeah, thats right, they were punished discharged and will never get a pension or any military benefits. This will follow them the rest of their lives. They arent being lauded for this.

p.s. as for sensory deprevation it is a time honored method to get info without physically hitting or harming people and is actually used in many SF training scenarios according to people like Andy Mcnab Author of immediate action and bravo 20

[Retard]

Its time for one tiny I TOLD YOU SO! And you called me as f**khead.... :backhand:

Yea! Saddam wasn't anywhere as bad as these bad Americans!
http://members.cox.net/free_iraq/Torture%20Instruments%2001.jpg
http://members.cox.net/free_iraq/Tortured%2008.jpg
http://members.cox.net/free_iraq/Why-kill.jpg
http://www.freeq8.com/i/killer1.JPG
http://www.startribune.com/stonline/images/news39/1kurd19.l.jpg

[M1A2U2]

I think people like uninen and mustamato know that Saddam was a bad person, worse. However, for some sick reason they choose to ignore the crimes of all others but Americans. Do you think if there was a story about American soldiers being tortured that uninen or mustamato would say a word? They have something called selective memory. Im not sure if it is a disease or just a mental problem but their minds only choose to remember certain things. In this case they choose to only remember wrong doings of the US. They could care less what horrible torture methods are used by anyone else. Any chance they can take to bash the US they take. You guys should seek some help.[/quote]

[catdat]

He219 wrote:

Not Marines, Permski; ARMY.

Not Regular Army He219 - Reserves apparently with instructions from "civilian contractor" interrogators.

They (the Reservists) also stated that CIA, FBI were at the prison frequently and commended them on the job they were doing (none of these people have been charged yet and apparently can't be under UCMJ - nice loophole). Also, if he is to be believed, one soldier who has been charged said there were a total of five soldiers and two officers assigned to supervise 900+ inmates (I'm not sure how this would be possible). He admitted to physical contact but came short of admitting to beatings. The Reservists were allowed to observe the "interrogations" so I'm curious as to what part of thier techniques were learned from those that aren't being charged here. Apparently the Army has admitted that none of these Soldiers had any training in the Geneva Conventions. Any Regular Army MP Unit would be familiar with what they can and cannot do.

The entire 60 Minutes segment is available on quicktime if you know where to look.


BTW that general in charge of the prison even looks like Ilsa - didn't she get away at the end of that last movie? I was wondering when she'd tun up.

http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/432_1083278417_kap.jpg

http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/432_1083278981_ilsa_haremkeeper.jpg

[Marmot1]

Savages....



...and greater shame is that this female general bitch has polish name... :(

[TheBlackHand]

Torture?

This is the sort of thing that thousands of pledges go through every semester just to join the fraternity of thier choice.

These horrid American's could learn a thing or two about handling prisoners from thier honorable foe.

Anybody want to see a photo of a Russian kid having his throat slashed open or an Italian guy having his brains blown out or a Jewish journalist having his head sawed off? Now, this is how you deal with prisoners!!

[One?]

fuken ****s
i hope she gets mutalated in fallujah her and the other fagg .,


is this what u call freedom? this is what u want to spread? and then you wonder why iraqis dont love you....

[Seoulstriker]

here we go......

[He219]

fuken ****s
i hope she gets mutalated in fallujah her and the other fagg .,


is this what u call freedom? this is what u want to spread? and then you wonder why iraqis dont love you....

'Hope she gets mutilated'; that's very nice. Lead by example, One?

Please, show us some of your HAMAS love!

:roll:

[Undo]

fuken ****s
i hope she gets mutalated in fallujah her and the other fagg .,


is this what u call freedom? this is what u want to spread? and then you wonder why iraqis dont love you....

LOL. Your true colors are showing...

[One?]

fuken ****s
i hope she gets mutalated in fallujah her and the other fagg .,


is this what u call freedom? this is what u want to spread? and then you wonder why iraqis dont love you....

LOL. Your true colors are showing...


my true colors?

oh wait I should of said:

I hope those iraqis enjoyed it.
or yay man pyramid, i hope they gave it to them good etc...

is that what I should of said?

grow up kid...grow up

[One?]

fuken ****s
i hope she gets mutalated in fallujah her and the other fagg .,


is this what u call freedom? this is what u want to spread? and then you wonder why iraqis dont love you....

'Hope she gets mutilated'; that's very nice. Lead by example, One?

Please, show us some of your HAMAS love!

:roll:

what would you have said if those Iraqis were american's being tortured by Iraqis? Would you have said "yay man pyramid" ?

[ibstolidude]

Apparently the Army has admitted that none of these Soldiers had any training in the Geneva Conventions. Any Regular Army MP Unit would be familiar with what they can and cannot do. - can you post this please - because this is direct violation of several GO's issued by the theater CINC, TRADOC command and god knows how many other echelons... not to mention a violation of the army values.

Any Basic trng attendee has been to basic classes on the Geneva/law of land warfare as has any NCO who attended PLDC and/or BNCOC, & officers during the conduct of OBC. Not to mention the req'd yearly CTT for their TPU members or the MUIC processing that is now required for reserve & NG units. Hell just look at that goofy card and ID tag thing soldiers are "suppossed" to wear if there are any doubts.

Perhaps an F*cked up officer in THAT chain of command tried to state they had no training, but the maximium effective range of the excuse should be zero ****ing meters.

[Pyle]

So, did the TV programme reveal how those prisoners were "tortured", other than humiliateing them? Were they e.g. beaten?

http://news.globalfreepress.com/movs/wonk/CBS/60Min/60MinII.US.IraqiTortured.01.jpg



I thought KKK was just showing their new get up.

[Uninen]

Pyle,

Go shoot yourself.. like in the movie.. you know?

You making fun of things that arent, but then again you making comment like that makes me think the you think that theres nothing done wrong here.

:|

[RomanS]

OLE OP OP OP
http://www.nervelessnocks.com/arts/images/castro285250.jpg
http://www.wallenda.com/wallenda_images/7man.jpg

[Undo]

fuken ****s
i hope she gets mutalated in fallujah her and the other fagg .,


is this what u call freedom? this is what u want to spread? and then you wonder why iraqis dont love you....

LOL. Your true colors are showing...


my true colors?

oh wait I should of said:

I hope those iraqis enjoyed it.
or yay man pyramid, i hope they gave it to them good etc...

is that what I should of said?

grow up kid...grow up

First of all, what I was saying was that, although you have made rational and thoughtful posts in the past, now you are hoping that women are mutilated and killed. So now we understand exactly who you are.

Also, if this was going on with US POWs I would be thrilled, because right now they can expect to be beheaded, ripped apart by mobs, or just murdered outright. What do you think the chances are that those who murder US POWs will be tried by thier own cultures? I think the chances seem pretty good now that you would want to shake their hands. Yes, I think I understand pretty well now exactly the type of person you are.


Grow up? Take a good, long look in the mirror, my friend. You don't even know who you are talking to.

[He219]

what would you have said if those Iraqis were american's being tortured by Iraqis? Would you have said "yay man pyramid" ?
Gee, you did'nt read my initial post. :roll:

What's worse is for you to equate the entire Iraqi Operation and Democracy with the acts of these reserve soldiers ....

Permskii - you crack me up.
:lol:

[One?]

Who am I talking to, God?

The US army went there to spread democracy and to stop saddam from torturing prisoners. Am I not right?

And Yes, US soldeirs were captured by saddam and I dont think they were beheaded or tortured. I doubt they made them pose naked in ****** positions and then someone took pictures of them.

I don't give a fuk if she was a woman or not. She was torturing people so she deserves the same treatment.

Remember the thread when US contractors were mutalated in fallujah? What did everyone say? Oh ya the comments were very nice, they all called to capture the iraqis and then send them to a 5 star prison. riiiiight.

[He219]

Big difference, jerkoff.

http://cache.*****images.com/thumb/3177750.jpg?x=x&a=3177750&b=afp&t=1

[One?]

what would you have said if those Iraqis were american's being tortured by Iraqis? Would you have said "yay man pyramid" ?
Gee, you did'nt read my initial post. :roll:

What's worse is for you to equate the entire Iraqi Operation and Democracy with the acts of these reserve soldiers ....

Permskii - you crack me up.
:lol:

nothing. But the Army doesn't have to cover it up by saying that they were never taught the geneva convention. Listen to the interviews (http://news.globalfreepress.com/movs/wonk/CBS/60Min/60MinII.US.IraqisTortured.mp3) and see what the other soldeirs had to say. The methods of interrogation weren't all that american.

And I'm not attacking the US army or marines, I was attacking the fag, and the other girl for their acts.

It pisses me off to see people laughing at this and when someone says something they either become:

a) terrorist
b) show true colors
c) hamas lover etc...

but if it was to happen to americans then ww3 would start the next day.

[One?]

Big difference, jerkoff.

http://cache.*****images.com/thumb/3177750.jpg?x=x&a=3177750&b=afp&t=1

http://news.globalfreepress.com/movs/wonk/CBS/60Min/60MinII.US.IraqiTortured.11.jpg


yes you are right. One is an american the other is an Iraqi. My bad.

[Uninen]

Big difference, jerkoff.

http://cache.*****images.com/thumb/3177750.jpg?x=x&a=3177750&b=afp&t=1

Nice, now what does dead MERC:s have to do with this? :|

[He219]

Get off you high horse, One.

What happened will not stand. They will see their punishment. Do you think Americans condone or approve of that kind of behavior?

[Undo]

Who am I talking to, God?

The US army went there to spread democracy and to stop saddam from torturing prisoners. Am I not right?

And Yes, US soldeirs were captured by saddam and I dont think they were beheaded or tortured. I doubt they made them pose naked in ****** positions and then someone took pictures of them.

I don't give a fuk if she was a woman or not. She was torturing people so she deserves the same treatment.

Remember the thread when US contractors were mutalated in fallujah? What did everyone say? Oh ya the comments were very nice, they all called to capture the iraqis and then send them to a 5 star prison. riiiiight.

You are not talking to god, but you aren't talking to a "kid."

Anyway, whatever you say. Rationalize it any way you want. I have a friend who was a "guest" of Iraq during GW1. I knew him before and after his stay there. I can assure you, he was brutally tortured, so you can go **** yourself. Your double standard shows your mentality. She was torturing people so she deserves the same treatment? Who did she mutilate? Hmm? I know all I need to know about you, friend, and it is not worth my time to continue this any further.

[He219]

Uninen; You never established that they were mercenaries. Armed, yes. Soldiers engaging in offensive combat operations, no. Providing security for civilian contractors including a woman working on Iraqi reconstruction, yes. Are you saying that the Fallujah mob was justified?

What the soldiers at the prison did was wrong. Self-evidently so.

[One?]

Get off you high horse, One.

What happened will not stand. They will see their punishment. Do you think Americans condone or approve of that kind of behavior?

I dont think americans tolerate that kind of behavior, but some on this board do find it amuzing and enjoy it.


Undo, if you dont want me to rationalize, then you shouldn't do it either...

just like you were pissed off when you saw those contractors hanging from bridges I was pissed to see iraqis being humilated and tortured.

[Uninen]

Just because "they did it" doesnt give "you the right to do so".

Remember that.

:|

Also what becomes to all that has been happening in Fallujah after the "contractor killings", has it really been worth it? Thousands of people injured and killed since that, from both sides.... (all victims put together..)

[Yes Man]

The three soldiers, all from Pennsylvania, were scheduled to face courts-martial this month but opted instead to submit to a nonjudicial hearing, in which their conduct was judged by a commander without a jury, Lt. Col. Vic Harris said. Such hearings are common practice, he said.

Brig. Gen. Ennis Whitehead III, the acting commander of the 143rd Transportation Command, found the three soldiers had maltreated prisoners at Camp Bucca, southern Iraq, on May 12. He demoted two of the soldiers and ordered that all three forfeit their salaries for two months.

The general found that Master Sgt. Lisa Marie Girman, 35, of Hazelton, Pa., knocked a prisoner to the ground, ``repeatedly kicking him in the groin, abdomen, and head, and encouraging her subordinate soldiers to do the same,'' Harris said.

Girman received an ``other-than-honorable conditions'' discharge from her immediate commander.


Staff Sgt. Scott A. McKenzie, 38, of Clearfield, Pa., was found to have dragged a prisoner by his shoulders and then to have held his legs apart ``and encouraging others to kick him in the groin while other U.S. soldiers kicked him in the abdomen and head,'' Harris said.

McKenzie was also found to have thrown the detainee face-down to the ground and have stepped on ``his previously injured arm.''

The general also found McKenzie made ``a false sworn statement to a special agent of the U.S. Army Criminal Investigation Division.''

McKenzie was demoted to sergeant and later received a ``general, under honorable conditions'' discharge.

Spc. Timothy F. Canjar, 21, of Moscow, Pa., was found to have made a false statement to the army's criminal investigators and to have held a detainee's legs apart ``while others kicked him in the groin, in addition to ``violently twisting his previously injured arm and causing him to scream in pain.

Canjar was demoted to private - a rank two lower than specialist - and received a ``general, under honorable conditions'' discharge from his commander, Harris said.

The findings were handed down at Camp Arifjan in Kuwait on Dec. 29. The three soldiers have now returned to the United States.

A fourth soldier was charged in the same case, but Sgt. Shawna Edmondson, 24, requested and received an ``other-than-honorable'' discharge from the military last year rather than face a court-martial.

They have already been dealt with.


Did I read this wrong or is the only penalty these people received was demotion or dishonorable discharged?

[Undo]

Undo, if you dont want me to rationalize, then you shouldn't do it either...

just like you were pissed off when you saw those contractors hanging from bridges I was pissed to see iraqis being humilated and tortured.

The fact that you can equate the two further illustrates your character, as you deftly ignore the major points in my last post. I'm done with you.

[Uninen]

Uninen; You never established that they were mercenaries. Armed, yes. Soldiers engaging in offensive combat operations, no.
Was there coalition troops stationed in Fallujah? I seem to recall that there was not. And going on purpose to hostile territory seems to me as "offensive"......

Providing security for civilian contractors including a woman working on Iraqi reconstruction, yes. Are you saying that the Fallujah mob was justified?
Well, the people they attacked were a legimate target, it was not like they were killing American children or anything, but what they did to the bodies afterwards was hateful and uncalled for, that ill give ya.

[RomanS]

Who am I talking to, God?

The US army went there to spread democracy and to stop saddam from torturing prisoners. Am I not right?

And Yes, US soldeirs were captured by saddam and I dont think they were beheaded or tortured. I doubt they made them pose naked in ****** positions and then someone took pictures of them.

I don't give a fuk if she was a woman or not. She was torturing people so she deserves the same treatment.

Remember the thread when US contractors were mutalated in fallujah? What did everyone say? Oh ya the comments were very nice, they all called to capture the iraqis and then send them to a 5 star prison. riiiiight.

Hey fukc nut

Iraqies are lucky to have Americans there. If our Russian guys were mutilated, and hanged off the bridge like this. People would cry for Sadam to come back. We would of leveled everything that stands, and would say it was like this before we came.

What do Americans do on those photos? Tell me. Where is the physical abuse, blood, bruises, dead bodies, body parts?

You need to know American culture, ****** jokes is a part of the free world. Walk in a gay club here, you will see a lot more disturbing **** going on. I'm supriced the captured Iraqies not wearing any latex and buttless pants.

Like Undo said, imagine American soldiers being captured by the muslim terrorist scum.

ONCE AGAIN - Iraqies are lucky to have Americans there. If there were Russians in Iraq, Iraqies would only wish for USA to come and play some dominatrix with them.

Now take a good advice and go fukc yourself.

[He219]

http://cache.*****images.com/comp/3454039.jpg?x=x&dasite=MS_GINS&ef=2&ev=1&dareq=E2399169AC85D6DE5993195D17A45BDD2BC86B7A4E23BA36

BAGHDAD, IRAQ - APRIL 20: U.S. Army medical personnel evacuate an Iraqi prisoner from Abu Ghraib prison April 20, 2004 in Baghdad. Insurgents fired 12 mortars on the Baghdad prison, killing 22 and injuring 92. (Photo by Paula Bronstein/***** Images)

http://cache.*****images.com/comp/3454118.jpg?x=x&dasite=MS_GINS&ef=2&ev=1&dareq=E2399169AC85D6DE18F2DEF819EF571AA7D40C2901671899

BAGHDAD, IRAQ - APRIL 20: U.S. Army medical personnel evacuate an Iraqi prisoner from Abu Ghraib prison as a crew member from the 421st Evac battalion, 45th Medical company waits by a Black Hawk helicopter to evacuate to the nearest hospital, April 20, 2004 in Baghdad. Insurgents fired 12 mortars on the Baghdad prison, killing 22 and injuring 92. (Photo by Paula Bronstein/***** Images)

http://cache.*****images.com/comp/3454105.jpg?x=x&dasite=MS_GINS&ef=2&ev=1&dareq=E2399169AC85D6DE18F2DEF819EF571AA3897B0CF27A22A3

http://cache.*****images.com/comp/3454053.jpg?x=x&dasite=MS_GINS&ef=2&ev=1&dareq=E2399169AC85D6DE5993195D17A45BDD4993BF1D0658D73D

http://cache.*****images.com/comp/3453849.jpg?x=x&dasite=MS_GINS&ef=2&ev=1&dareq=E2399169AC85D6DE33517CC294B32C27E0571C5AE3291A70

BAGHDAD, IRAQ - APRIL 20: U.S. Army medical personnel evacuate Iraqi prisoners from Abu Ghraib prison April 20, 2004 in Baghdad. Insurgents fired 12 mortars on the Baghdad prison, killing 22 and injuring 92. (Photo by Paula Bronstein/***** Images)

http://cache.*****images.com/comp/3453845.jpg?x=x&dasite=MS_GINS&ef=2&ev=1&dareq=E2399169AC85D6DE33517CC294B32C27BE3B44DD275A6985

BAGHDAD, IRAQ - APRIL 20: An Iraqi prisoner from Abu Ghraib prison lies in a helicopter waiting to be evacuated by U.S. Army medical personnel April 20, 2004 in Baghdad. Insurgents fired 12 mortars on the Baghdad prison, killing 22 and injuring 92. (Photo by Paula Bronstein/***** Images)

http://cache.*****images.com/comp/3453860.jpg?x=x&dasite=MS_GINS&ef=2&ev=1&dareq=E2399169AC85D6DE33517CC294B32C279D7FAD9142E8A0A2

BAGHDAD, IRAQ - APRIL 20: Iraqi prisoners from Abu Ghraib prison lie in a helicopter waiting to be evacuated by U.S. Army medical personnel April 20, 2004 in Baghdad. Insurgents fired 12 mortars on the Baghdad prison, killing 22 and injuring 92. (Photo by Paula Bronstein/***** Images)

http://cache.*****images.com/comp/3453826.jpg?x=x&dasite=MS_GINS&ef=2&ev=1&dareq=E2399169AC85D6DE33517CC294B32C27C18B68758722778A

BAGHDAD, IRAQ- APRIL 20: U.S. crew from the 421st Evac battalion, 45th Medical company treat an Iraqi prisoner from Abu Ghraib prison as dozens were evacuated on board a Black Hawk helicopter April 20, 2004 in Baghdad. Insurgents fired 12 mortars on the Baghdad prison, killing 22 and injuring 92. (Photo by Paula Bronstein/***** Images)

http://cache.*****images.com/comp/3453814.jpg?x=x&dasite=MS_GINS&ef=2&ev=1&dareq=E2399169AC85D6DE33517CC294B32C27BEF39E2A3B46916C

BAGHDAD, IRAQ- APRIL 20: U.S. Army Sargent Kai Yarwood treats an Iraqi prisoner from Abu Ghraib prison as dozens were evacuated on board a Black Hawk helicopter by the crew from the 421st Evac battalion, 45th Medical company to the nearest hospital. Insurgents fired 12 mortars on the Baghdad prison, killing 22 and injuring 92. (Photo by Paula Bronstein/***** Images)

http://cache.*****images.com/comp/3453815.jpg?x=x&dasite=MS_GINS&ef=2&ev=1&dareq=E2399169AC85D6DE33517CC294B32C273AFB04C0303B579A

http://www.usmc.mil/marinelink/image1.nsf/Lookup/200442813028/$file/prison01lr.jpg

U.S. Army medics provide care for prisoners after an insurgent mortar attack on the prison at Abu Ghurayb, Iraq, April 20, 2004. Fourteen detainees were killed and nearly 100 were wounded during the attack.

http://www.usmc.mil/marinelink/image1.nsf/Lookup/20044281275/$file/prison03lr.jpg

A U.S. Army medic provides care for a prisoner after an insurgent mortar attack on the prison at Abu Ghurayb, Iraq, April 20, 2004. Fourteen detainees were killed and nearly 100 were wounded in the attack.

http://www.usmc.mil/marinelink/image1.nsf/Lookup/200442812556/$file/prison02lr.jpg

A U.S. Army medic provides care for a prisoner after an insurgent mortar attack on the prison at Abu Ghurayb, Iraq, April 20, 2004. Fourteen detainees were killed and nearly 100 were wounded in the attack.

Chances are you couldn't care less about these pictures because you are focused on only seeing the things you want to see ...

:roll:

[Uninen]

http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2004/03/03/prison/index_np.html


"Guantanamo on steroids"

Abu Ghraib was an infamous prison under Saddam. Now, for Iraqis seeking relatives detained by the U.S. military, it is still a place where men disappear.

http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2004/03/03/prison/story.jpg
Outside Abu Ghraib prison, surrounded by other Iraqis hoping to get information about imprisoned relatives, a former detainee tries to find out why his brother, arrested at the same time, wasn't released when he was.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/intell/world/iraq/abu-ghurayb-prison.htm


Coalition forces engaged an individual in the vicinity of the Abu Ghyriab prison 17 August 2003. The individual was later identified as a reporter. The individual was evacuated to the 28th Combat Support Hospital and was ****ounced dead on arrival.

[catdat]

ibstolidude wrote:

- can you post this please - because this is direct violation of several GO's issued by the theater CINC, TRADOC command and god knows how many other echelons... not to mention a violation of the army values.

I have no doubt that that is the case I'm only repeating what was stated on the segment. If you want send me a private messeage I will give you a link and you can decide. I believe the Army splokesman admitted this and he was wearing a star. He offered no excuses for these troops and I concur. That said, there is a hint of a larger problem with whomever these "civilian" interrogators are. I personally don't believe for one minute we hired outsiders to interrogate prisoners. This smells as if some people are being distanced from the controversy. Can you spell Scape Goat?

As far as what training reservists got - I have no qualms telling you that at least one reseve company I was in after being RA was worthless. They made me embarrassed to wear the uniform. So is it hard for me to believe that they may not have been up to speed? Roger that.

Three NCOs and a Spec4 got the boot? WTF? Where is the rest of the chain of command? So are we to believe this unit had a General, 3 NCOs and a specialist and the whistleblower? That's it? When did the spec4 get a chance to sleep?

[usa320]

Absolutely disgusting. Granted iraqi militants treat our people with complete and utter disrespect, but thats still no excuse. They have done a highly professional job deal with prisoners elsewhere, including Gitmo. These stupid bitches bring disgrace to our armed forces.

[seruriermarshal]

It's war , allies have law , so event will over .

[Salty Dog]

I don't think it really matters, The marines have always held themselves to a higher standard than that. However, I do know that those involved are going to do some time......

marines?....i thought they were soldiers?....

[wormie]

Pfft, if this was world war ii they would have been executed upon being captured.... These guys are insurgents.... terrorists... Big deal. If this had been them capturing Americans.... They would have killed them and drug um through the streets.

[ghost_33]

C'mon guys, it's just REMFs having some fun rofl rofl rofl

[born_to_kill]

ROFLMAO u made my day!

aaaahahahahahahahahahah!ahahahhahahahahahaha!


http://news.globalfreepress.com/movs/wonk/CBS/60Min/60MinII.US.IraqiTortured.03.jpg

[Pille1234]

aaaahahahahahahahahahah!ahahahhahahahahahaha!
How funny it is, isn't it? :|
No, I neither judge the USA nor the US Army on behalf of these idiots. But I judge the ppl here in the forum by their behavior regarding the pictures.

[Jack Mehoff]

ShadowNeo,

Yeah.. it was "funny".

PermskiiOMON,

LoL, i think you know this method, and if you dont let me tell you: its quite effective, cruel and its torture.

As the odds are that one subjected to this will get slipt personality and ****. Or put it simply, one will go totally insane. Break.

Coming from an asshole who said it's perfectly OK for insurgents to shoot captured civilian contractors in the back of the head Hitler's style.

Get off your high horse asshole!!!

[RSK]

Wow!

Just imagine what muslims all around the world think of the US now!

[Jack Mehoff]

Wow!

Just imagine what muslims all around the world think of the US now!

Just like we've been thinking about them in 9/11

[Fintin]

Wow!

Just imagine what muslims all around the world think of the US now!

hopefuly the same thing we think of them...the most of them are fine upstanding humans...there are just a few bad seeds...

[gilgoul]

This is a disgrace to the PM unit, and therefore to the all army.
But fortunately the JAG takes action, and the people responsible are going to do some time

[n.ignomo]

http://www.startribune.com/stonline/images/news39/1kurd19.l.jpg

That especially scares me more than everything else. And did you see that saw, more than cutting off one of your fingers they give you real bad diseases !

[afrographX]

I think this incident is one reason why the Bush-administration was against an international criminal court. Because this would have been a perfect case for that court. I assume that if the crimes would be dealt with by such a court, the arabic world would also be willing to accept the decision.
As well as of course the crimes of sadam hussein himself.

[navylt]

I don't think it really matters, The marines have always held themselves to a higher standard than that. However, I do know that those involved are going to do some time......

Those servicemembers are not Marines.

[n.ignomo]

Those really seemed to have fun, smiling at all ways...f**king human kind huh ?

[Jack Mehoff]

Those really seemed to have fun, smiling at all ways...f**king human kind huh ?

I agree. That **** in the picture seems to have fun. :roll:
http://cache.*****images.com/thumb/3177750.jpg?x=x&a=3177750&b=afp&t=1

[Marmot1]

Those really seemed to have fun, smiling at all ways...f**king human kind huh ?

I agree. That f*** in the picture seems to have fun. :roll:
http://cache.*****images.com/thumb/3177750.jpg?x=x&a=3177750&b=afp&t=1

Jack do you compare US servicemembers to thsse insurgents???

I am scared that many of you enjoyed those pictures... I can understand when ppl like PERMSKI enjoy since russina army is familiar with those methods. But I can't understand why many americans on this forum are trying to excuse this kind of behavior. Why nobody scream about ANIMALS etc. To this time I was sure that US army (or marines or USAF ro USN ) was on higher moral ground but now it seems that I was wrong...

[n.ignomo]

One reason : it happens much more often that what you think. I don't talk about war bu about crimes in general, i wish i never knew how this is.

[Ekie]

Quite disgusting. Sometimes I wonder if the US can win a major war in modern times, considering the general pacification/wussification of the country. Now look at what passes as being a US Marine siege (Fallujah), and what passes as EPOW abuse in the US Army these days. What, so now days we leave EPOW abuse to split tails, and they treat it as some sort of hazing game? The times sure have a changed, freaking pathetic.

[HELEX]

....I Told you so..... :roll:

[Helio]

Sometimes I wonder if the US can win a major war in modern times, considering the general pacification/wussification of the country.

I agree. Luckin' Fiberals

[weedman]

I think this incident is one reason why the Bush-administration was against an international criminal court. Because this would have been a perfect case for that court. I assume that if the crimes would be dealt with by such a court, the arabic world would also be willing to accept the decision.
As well as of course the crimes of sadam hussein himself.C'mon, the US is not in need of such an institution, they are the Police of the World :roll: :lol:
USA > World :lol:

By the way, it's an interesting fact, that the US Military is able to conquer countries successfully in such an impressive time, but is not able to controll their own soliders.

[ibstolidude]

....I Told you so..... :roll:
what did you tell us be specific - in any armed conflict I could "tell you so" that there will be abuses on all sides just as the German soldiers had in Prizen in 99. So let me go on the record now as stating: "In the next war, REGARDLESS OF THE PARTICIPANT COUNTRIES, there will be abuses of human rights, civilians, pows, and combatants" - hey look at me psychic, and a guarantee I'm right.

HELEX you've told everyone lots of things many of which have been proved wrong and to be flat bull****, and no this does not reflect any type of systematic torture, this reflects a couple of ****heads that will dealt with rather harshly and severly, and rightfully so.

[Jack Mehoff]

....I Told you so..... :roll:

You told us what? Your one-liner comments is getting really tiresome.

[Jack Mehoff]

Those really seemed to have fun, smiling at all ways...f**king human kind huh ?

I agree. That f*** in the picture seems to have fun. :roll:
http://cache.*****images.com/thumb/3177750.jpg?x=x&a=3177750&b=afp&t=1

Jack do you compare US servicemembers to thsse insurgents???



I'm not comparing US soldiers to the terrorists, but do you see the morons (uninen, musturbator, helex, one, etc) on this board who condemn the entire US military for the action of a few, are also the same morons who defend the terrorists who mutiliated 4 American civilian contractors a month ago.

Do you see the consistency here?

[HELEX]

Errrrrm..... about the photos of dead Soldiers hanging from a Bridge.... Dead people cant feel anything, but living can.....

So the Torture of POWs is really a much bigger crime. :cantbeli:

[Jack Mehoff]

Errrrrm..... about the photos of dead Soldiers hanging from a Bridge.... Dead people cant feel anything, but living can.....

So the Torture of POWs is really a much bigger crime. :cantbeli:

Are you suggesting to kill the POWs, then torture them? I mean, they can't feel anything when they are dead, right? rofl

[RomanS]

Those really seemed to have fun, smiling at all ways...f**king human kind huh ?

I agree. That f*** in the picture seems to have fun. :roll:
http://cache.*****images.com/thumb/3177750.jpg?x=x&a=3177750&b=afp&t=1

Jack do you compare US servicemembers to thsse insurgents???

I am scared that many of you enjoyed those pictures... I can understand when ppl like PERMSKI enjoy since russina army is familiar with those methods. But I can't understand why many americans on this forum are trying to excuse this kind of behavior. Why nobody scream about ANIMALS etc. To this time I was sure that US army (or marines or USAF ro USN ) was on higher moral ground but now it seems that I was wrong...

Why should American people, or US Army give a fukc about what you think? Why should they give a **** what th world thinks?

[Kriz]

I find it funny in a sad way, one of the major reasons for invading Iraq was creating a more human regime and better life conditions for the people of Iraq.
Looking at the situation now, I somewhat doubt that much has improved. Saddam was brutal yes, toppling him to prevent people from getting killed with no reason, fantastic. But ending up with pictures of the liberators doing exactly the same thing is awfull.

No wonder more and more oridanry iraqis start disliking the coalition forces.

[caleb]

Why should American people, or US Army give a fukc about what you think? Why should they give a **** what th world thinks?

ROFL! rofl You arn't THAT stupid, are you?

[Jack Mehoff]

Marmot1:


But I can't understand why many americans on this forum are trying to excuse this kind of behavior. Why nobody scream about ANIMALS etc. To this time I was sure that US army (or marines or USAF ro USN ) was on higher moral ground but now it seems that I was wrong

Who? Can you give me a name? :roll:

Why don't you tell your brothers uninen, masturbator, one and helex when they were trying to find lame ass excuses when 4 American civilian contractors hacked to pieces and hung on the bridge? :roll:

Some people should just get off their ****ing high horse or ****, or whatever they are riding on.

Can you at least stop bitchin? The American MPs who committed that crime will be punish accordingly. If we tolerate that kind of behavior then would not punish them.

[RomanS]

Why should American people, or US Army give a fukc about what you think? Why should they give a **** what th world thinks?

ROFL! rofl You arn't THAT stupid, are you?

Stupid? oh no, not at all. Only when I drink large amounts of flamabale liquids.

However with your reply I must say you are either from Europe, or ... oh **** I shouldnt even guess.

The point is simple. USA needs to stop giving a **** what the WORLD THINKS ABOUT THEM. It would be much much much better.

[TALOS]

Marmot1:


But I can't understand why many americans on this forum are trying to excuse this kind of behavior. Why nobody scream about ANIMALS etc. To this time I was sure that US army (or marines or USAF ro USN ) was on higher moral ground but now it seems that I was wrong

Who? Can you give me a name? :roll:

Why don't you tell your brothers uninen, masturbator, one and helex when they were trying to find lame ass excuses when 4 American civilian contractors hacked to pieces and hung on the bridge? :roll:

Some people should just get off their f*** high horse or ****, or whatever they are riding on.

Can you at least stop bitchin? The American MPs who committed that crime will be punish accordingly. If we tolerate that kind of behavior then would not punish them.
There are a few numbnuts saying its cool but the vast majority of us have said it was wrong and they WILL/HAVE been punished. No matter what you people who supported and excused the Iraqi insurgents and now condemn the US say, this incident was not tolerated and it was Americans themselves who blew the whistle because what they saw disgusted them and it really wasnt even close to what the insurgents and islamic extremists do. They were humiliated and posed, not burnt to death or torn limb from limb. (go to kavkaz if you want real disturbing stuff)
What the US guards did was WRONG and will be punished, bet you cant say the same about islamic fighters.

[Jack Mehoff]

This is like saying ALL muslim arabs are terrorists because 18 ****heads flew commercial planes into buildings full of office workers.

[Undo]

This just amazes me. I can't comprehend it at all.

Iraqi mob shoots, stones, mutilates and burns four people to death and then dances around and hangs the bodies from a bridge. While the mob cheers.

Some asshats think there is some way to justify this?

Several US soldiers (reservists?) humiliate and possible even punch members of the regime that murdered huge numbers of Iraqis themselves, for which the US soldiers will be punished and their careers ended, and some of you people think that this proves that the US is as bad as those people on the bridge?

Are you serious? I refuse to believe that anybody can be that stupid, so I am going to assume that you fellows are just trying to get some attention your mothers weren't willing to waste on you.

[Fintin]

there will always be bad seeds..us...europa...arab...the few dont set the law for the rest

[moughoun]

One of the people involved on the cbs show was on Irish tv today and he said that there were picyure's much worse that thay couldn't show including a US "contractor" raping a young man

[Uncle Sam]

These Reservists were idiots, plain and simple. They abused their authority and have been punished. I blame their leadership. And that's who is being taken care of now, and rightfully so.

So, now, continue beating this dead horse.

[Fargin]

Why should American people, or US Army give a fukc about what you think? Why should they give a **** what th world thinks?

ROFL! rofl You arn't THAT stupid, are you?

Stupid? oh no, not at all. Only when I drink large amounts of flamabale liquids.

However with your reply I must say you are either from Europe, or ... oh **** I shouldnt even guess.

The point is simple. USA needs to stop giving a **** what the WORLD THINKS ABOUT THEM. It would be much much much better.

ROFL! rofl You arn't THAT stupid, are you?

[Threelions]

This just amazes me. I can't comprehend it at all.

Iraqi mob shoots, stones, mutilates and burns four people to death and then dances around and hangs the bodies from a bridge. While the mob cheers.

Some asshats think there is some way to justify this?

Several US soldiers (reservists?) humiliate and possible even punch members of the regime that murdered huge numbers of Iraqis themselves, for which the US soldiers will be punished and their careers ended, and some of you people think that this proves that the US is as bad as those people on the bridge?

Are you serious? I refuse to believe that anybody can be that stupid, so I am going to assume that you fellows are just trying to get some attention your mothers weren't willing to waste on you.

What was it your mum always told you as a kid? "two wrongs dont make a right". learn it, live it, love it!! Justifying the illegal treatment of POW's is disgusting! America the just and powerful, full of riteous conviction has NO place for this kind of crap at all! I am so far impressed that the military has jumped on these retards!

Cheers

[Undo]

This just amazes me. I can't comprehend it at all.

Iraqi mob shoots, stones, mutilates and burns four people to death and then dances around and hangs the bodies from a bridge. While the mob cheers.

Some asshats think there is some way to justify this?

Several US soldiers (reservists?) humiliate and possible even punch members of the regime that murdered huge numbers of Iraqis themselves, for which the US soldiers will be punished and their careers ended, and some of you people think that this proves that the US is as bad as those people on the bridge?



Are you serious? I refuse to believe that anybody can be that stupid, so I am going to assume that you fellows are just trying to get some attention your mothers weren't willing to waste on you.

What was it your mum always told you as a kid? "two wrongs dont make a right". learn it, live it, love it!! Justifying the illegal treatment of POW's is disgusting! America the just and powerful, full of riteous conviction has NO place for this kind of crap at all! I am so far impressed that the military has jumped on these retards!

Cheers

Who is justifying this? Another idiot...did you not read my post? These US soldiers are going to be dealt with, and the fallout will probably be bigger than tailhook. My beef is comparing the actions of these idiots with the sadistic mob that butchered those contractors. Sigh...

[Steve Andrews]

Those pics have "Deliverence" overtones.

Lock those reponsible up. For a long time.

[TALOS]

This just amazes me. I can't comprehend it at all.

Iraqi mob shoots, stones, mutilates and burns four people to death and then dances around and hangs the bodies from a bridge. While the mob cheers.

Some asshats think there is some way to justify this?

Several US soldiers (reservists?) humiliate and possible even punch members of the regime that murdered huge numbers of Iraqis themselves, for which the US soldiers will be punished and their careers ended, and some of you people think that this proves that the US is as bad as those people on the bridge?

Are you serious? I refuse to believe that anybody can be that stupid, so I am going to assume that you fellows are just trying to get some attention your mothers weren't willing to waste on you.

What was it your mum always told you as a kid? "two wrongs dont make a right". learn it, live it, love it!! Justifying the illegal treatment of POW's is disgusting! America the just and powerful, full of riteous conviction has NO place for this kind of crap at all! I am so far impressed that the military has jumped on these retards!

Cheers

Canada, righteous and free? give me a break, do you remember Somalia? dont be so self righteous, the vast majority here agree the soldiers were wrong and are glad they will be punished. We just dont think there is a comparison between humiation and mutilation.

[Uninen]

Somalia? Only case ive hear until now that "coalition" troops did "norty things" in there was when some Italian troops tied some poor woman to their truck or APC and raped her, or some **** like that....

[Gauntlet]

Under no US Regulation would they allow that. They can put sacks over their heads and tie their hands but then they can go no further.
I believe that when Iraq has a fair trial court system, those prisonors have the right to sue those soldiers as much as they want!

[Uncle Sam]

These Reservists were idiots, plain and simple. They abused their authority and have been punished. I blame their leadership. And that's who is being taken care of now, and rightfully so.

So, now, continue beating this dead horse.

Yeah, what he said...

[usa320]

I still cant get over this. If you ask me it looks like some bitchy reservist lady that feels she needs to have power over men...


And by NO MEANS should this, OR DOES THIS, reperesent the behavior or morals of the hundreds of thousands of Men and women that serve this nation with dignity and pride.

These acts were shameful, embarassing and completely and utterly disgusting.

That ****tard should have to be tried in front of the Iraqi judicial system.

:fork:

[SeanAshi]

Italian troops tied some poor woman to their truck or APC and raped her, or some **** like that....Uninen...got any proof? If not then zip it ****. :P

[TALOS]

Somalia? Only case ive hear until now that "coalition" troops did "norty things" in there was when some Italian troops tied some poor woman to their truck or APC and raped her, or some **** like that....
from what I know that was a pile of crap, but what i refer to is the torture and beating (maybe murder?) of a somali boy by Canadian troops and the killing of another.

[moughoun]

Those pics have "Deliverence" overtones.

Lock those reponsible up. For a long time.

It's worse then that, one of the people involved in the cbs show said that those were the pic's they could show and that there were much worse one's including a us "contractor" raping a young man

[ibstolidude]

Somalia? Only case ive hear until now that "coalition" troops did "norty things" in there was when some Italian troops tied some poor woman to their truck or APC and raped her, or some **** like that.... that is the only abuse you heard of from there and you claim to be undbiased but based in fact. :roll: oh brother.

[M1A2U2]

NO i believe it was a belgian troops who held a somali boy over an open fire

http://www.cnn.com/WORLD/9704/17/belgium.somalia/

[Sayeret]

Uninen


Somalia? Only case ive hear until now that "coalition" troops did "norty things" in there was when some Italian troops tied some poor woman to their truck or APC and raped her, or some **** like that....

I guess you feel so bad for the victim that you had to spell naughty like a dumbass.

The most important thing that a lot of people are forgetting is that the US military and the US government comdemned what the soldiers did to the Iraqi prisoners, while Saddam's government supported and even carried out torture against its people. There are assholes everywhere, even in the US army there are assholes and while they don't represent the majority of people in the army they can still cause problems.

[Uninen]

I guess you feel so bad for the victim

Didnt everybody just say that there was no victim? Didt they say that this didnt not happen? :|

[Ekie]

http://static.sky.com/images/pictures/1212537.jpg

[Uninen]

Ekie, there is already a topic about that..... in "GENERAL" section...

[Undo]

Ekie, there is already a topic about that..... in "GENERAL" section...

...and that looks like a photo to me.

[RomanS]

The peewater "urine" can only be recycled once. After that it becomes poisenous.

Damn coalition forces, better make sure this piss is only coming out fresh for the first time, otherwise you got your self a chemical/biological genocide.

[SeanAshi]

http://static.sky.com/images/pictures/1212537.jpg
This could be any sick o in the world, you know some like this nasty **** in a ****** way.

[Uninen]

Ekie, there is already a topic about that..... in "GENERAL" section...

...and that looks like a photo to me.

So? This photo is already posted at THAT TOPIC, futhermore this topic isnt about nasty Englishmen, but about sick Americans.

[Undo]

Ekie, there is already a topic about that..... in "GENERAL" section...

...and that looks like a photo to me.

So? This photo is already posted at THAT TOPIC, futhermore this topic isnt about nasty Englishmen, but about sick Americans.

You're a moderator, then? Oh, good.

Hey, what happened to Russian Federation Forces, anyway?

[Uninen]

No im not, nor would i want to be...

I was just saying..... but whatever....

And what happened is Vladimir..... his one technical genious.... :lol:

[MaDuce]

....I Told you so..... :roll:
I think he means "haha my lee7 Nazi skllz pwn j00 amature toturing skills"

[RomanS]

Ekie, there is already a topic about that..... in "GENERAL" section...

...and that looks like a photo to me.

So? This photo is already posted at THAT TOPIC, futhermore this topic isnt about nasty Englishmen, but about sick Americans.

You're a moderator, then? Oh, good.

Hey, what happened to Russian Federation Forces, anyway?

No you didnt just ask this

Remember he praised this Red Russian guy so much, saying how not all Russians are bad and evil. And that he is his good friend, and not as fake as me, that he was in Chechnya, and knows his ****.

At the end Red Russian bended him over, wraped Finnish flag around Unien's head, and porked him for Finland.

He ended up giving poor Unien some nasty pube-disease. Unien posted the message about Red Russian sending him a virus, and how their long love relationship was now a tragic rape incident.

Anyways, it was nasty man ***.

[Undo]

Ekie, there is already a topic about that..... in "GENERAL" section...

...and that looks like a photo to me.

So? This photo is already posted at THAT TOPIC, futhermore this topic isnt about nasty Englishmen, but about sick Americans.

You're a moderator, then? Oh, good.

Hey, what happened to Russian Federation Forces, anyway?

No you didnt just ask this

Remember he praised this Red Russian guy so much, saying how not all Russians are bad and evil. And that he is his good friend, and not as fake as me, that he was in Chechnya, and knows his ****.

At the end Red Russian bended him over, wraped Finnish flag around Unien's head, and porked him for Finland.

He ended up giving poor Unien some nasty pube-disease. Unien posted the message about Red Russian sending him a virus, and how their long love relationship was now a tragic rape incident.

Anyways, it was nasty man ***.

Huh?

All I know is that we were having a lively debate about the MI-24 and then, *poof*.

Uninen, is it coming back? What about Vladimir? He is alive and well and just recieved a very nice digital camera, so expect some more pics from Permskii, provided his blood suger comes down before he gets banned.

[Jack Mehoff]

Ekie, there is already a topic about that..... in "GENERAL" section...

...and that looks like a photo to me.

So? This photo is already posted at THAT TOPIC, futhermore this topic isnt about nasty Englishmen, but about sick Americans.

From a guy who said it's OK to shoot captured civilian contractors in the back of the head?

Get off your high horse ****head!!!

I'm tired of repeating this ****.

[RomanS]

Not our Vladimir.

The Vladimir that use to own the Russian Federation Forces.

[Undo]

Not our Vladimir.

The Vladimir that use to own the Russian Federation Forces.

Doh. Sorry. Uninen, feel free to PM me if you want so everyone else doesn't have to read this.

[Uninen]

From a guy who said it's OK to shoot captured civilian contractors in the back of the head?

Get off your high horse ****head!!!

I'm tired of repeating this ****.

Yes Jack, you see if the individual PMC:s fit the mold of MERC, their pretty much "free game". IE They have no rights, their illegal combatants. Futhermore, the PMC:s killed in Fallujah sortied to what they knew was bandit land (was not under anykind of "allied" control) so "i think" that the operation was then offensive, and not defensive as "they have claimed".

So, that makes them armed, on offensive mission and paid for it, de facto mercenaries.

But then again im getting pretty tired of trying to make YOU SEE THE LIGHT. This is just the way it works.

Read, think and study before posting again. Thanks.

And dont just react with some BS, and btw, i have no clue to what was you replying here to in the first place...

[sethen]

Look, that prison was being mortared constantly. I sure the MP's were going stir crazy when they did those things. A mechanic from my motorpool, Battalion Commander and his driver went up there and spent the night and the Iraqi f!ckers put a round into the sleep tent. killed the driver and maimed the mechanic, tell me who got treated the worst there????

[Undo]

Look, that prison was being mortared constantly. I sure the MP's were going stir crazy when they did those things. A mechanic from my motorpool, Battalion Commander and his driver went up there and spent the night and the Iraqi f!ckers put a round into the sleep tent. killed the driver and maimed the mechanic, tell me who got treated the worst there????

Sorry for their injuries and death, extremely sorry, but that doesn't account for or excuse the incident/s.

Character isn't how you act driving to work, character is how you act when things are going to hell all around you. US soldiers are held to a higher standard. These individuals failed the test.

[Jack Mehoff]

From a guy who said it's OK to shoot captured civilian contractors in the back of the head?

Get off your high horse ****head!!!

I'm tired of repeating this ****.

Yes Jack, you see if the individual PMC:s fit the mold of MERC, their pretty much "free game". IE They have no rights, their illegal combatants. Futhermore, the PMC:s killed in Fallujah sortied to what they knew was bandit land (was not under anykind of "allied" control) so "i think" that the operation was then offensive, and not defensive as "they have claimed".

So, that makes them armed, on offensive mission and paid for it, de facto mercenaries.

But then again im getting pretty tired of trying to make YOU SEE THE LIGHT. This is just the way it works.

Read, think and study before posting again. Thanks.

And dont just react with some BS, and btw, i have no clue to what was you replying here to in the first place...

1) So terrorists in Guantanamo deserved better treatment than PMCs under Geneve Convention? Show me? Last time I check terrorists don't give a ratass about Gevena Convention.

2) How do you know the POWs are not mercenaries? Are you in Iraq? If not, then STFU.

Get off your high horse or ****, or whatever you are riding right now!!

Uninen wrote:

MERC:s have about as much rights as do have spies.. they can capture them and shoot them in the back of the head if they wish.. without braking any "laws" of course that isnt fair and ****.. but..

[J-10]

So, did the TV programme reveal how those prisoners were "tortured", other than humiliateing them? Were they e.g. beaten?

http://news.globalfreepress.com/movs/wonk/CBS/60Min/60MinII.US.IraqiTortured.01.jpg



I thought KKK was just showing their new get up.

Damn MP's!

[RomanS]

Baghdad Witch Project

[J-10]

Some idiot **** marines are similar to those ugly **** insurgents who killed captured civilian contractors.

[RomanS]

Some idiot **** marines are similiar to those ugly **** insurgents who killed captured civilian contractors.

here we go

China is always late

[obd]

Well, I dont know about you guys but it looks to me like this is just a detox center photos... You know, delousing and such.....to prevent the spread of deseases... It looks lke its just part of the usual prisoner processing to me.....the only thing that looks innappropriate is making them pile up on eachother like that..... which is clearly humiliating.....it also looks like the women is just posing for the pics for fun.......I dont really see any "torture" though...mild humiliation maybe but nothing worse than high school anitcs crap.........

Oh yeah, didnt see that who thing that looks like he is attached to electodes and such.....that doesnt look so good.........but still overall it looks like a few US soldiers are acting like idiots.......I see only those two and the cameraman....hopefully no officers are involved.........

Still, those soldiers are acting like complete ****s and they should get dishonroable discharges....there really is no excuse for humiliating prisoners.....but when you consider that these prisoners are probably from the same thread and the men who burned alive and mutilated Americans it kinda makes it hard to feel sorry for them....they get much better than from us than we get from them.........

[obd]

And J-10 should stop wasting her time about this and go focus on the fact that China kills female babies........oh and also kills drug addicts and dealers......oh and tortures and imprisons for years and even murders political dissidents......

[TALOS]

Some idiot **** marines are similar to those ugly **** insurgents who killed captured civilian contractors.

Good lord people READ THE INFO BEFORE POSTING.
They are not Marines, they are MP's, why does everyone keep saying marines?

[J-10]

Yes, that's individual sad accident in american, not all. And U.S. media and public are fair. My words is going to extremes, sorry.


And J-10 should stop wasting her time about this and go focus on the fact that China kills female babies...........

The fact is that all Chinese people condemn those idiot poor farmers who want to have a son and kill their female babies in some rural area, ugly! damn it!! :fork:

Yes, focus on troubles in China. The China Central Television CCTV-1 channel's programme "Focus Visit" expose new ugly and rotten events at 7:40pm every day. I can say "Focus Visit" is one of the most favourite programmes in these years in China.

[Jack Mehoff]

The fact is that all Chinese people condemn those idiot poor farmers who want to have a son and kill their female babies in some rural area, ugly! damn it!!

Now you understand what generalization feels like. ;)

I know most Chinese people don't practice female infanticides, most female infanticides take place in rural, farming communities where having male children is a big plus so they could work on the farm and continue the family's lineage.

Are you kidding me? China government still control what you watch, see and read. You don't believe me? Try these website www.americasarmy.com www.military.com www.cia.gov


Yes, focus on troubles in China. The China Central Television CCTV-1 channel's programme "Focus Visit" expose new ugly and rotten events at 7:40pm every day. I can say "Focus Visit" is one of the most favourite programmes in these years in China.

[Pyle]

Pyle,

Go shoot yourself.. like in the movie.. you know?

You making fun of things that arent, but then again you making comment like that makes me think the you think that theres nothing done wrong here.

:|

All is Fair in Love and War....

http://news.globalfreepress.com/movs/wonk/CBS/60Min/60MinII.US.IraqiTortured.01.jpg

http://cache.*****images.com/thumb/3177750.jpg?x=x&a=3177750&b=afp&t=1

[J-10]

Now you understand what generalization feels like. ;)

I know most Chinese people don't practice female infanticides, most female infanticides take place in rural, farming communities where having male children is a big plus so they could work on the farm and continue the family's lineage.

Are you kidding me? China government still control what you watch, see and read. You don't believe me? Try these website www.americasarmy.com www.military.com www.cia.gov


1.There were not communities in China since 20 years ago. The farmers having male children is a feudal tradition for 2,000 years history.

2.I am not kidding you, hahah :D Yes, China government's media is powerful in China. But young people could see west media by internet easily every day. and all Chinese people begin learning english language in little school, and in Chinese TV's show U.S. films every day. In fact, Chinese understand American is more and more than American understand Cinese people, hehe :) , how many American could read Chinese words? China is change everyday, but many west brains still stay in 20 years ago, remained cold war ideology, west media show China to Amerian people all bad things in newspapers and TV, it's funny ;) . I know American unlike C.P., but China is a real communism now? I think only pragmatism in China, China government just represent nation benefit, not more. U.S.A government want to promote democracy in China, that's good, but they are clumsy, because they don't understand Chinese young people ;) .

[eyeglass]

These photos are a shame for an democratic army.
:( :oops:
:roll:

[Metak]

Muslim site about torture:
http://www.albasrah.net/images/iraqi-pow/iraqi-pow
(contains more pics,shows rape)

[ibstolidude]

Yes Jack, you see if the individual PMC:s fit the mold of MERC, their pretty much "free game". IE They have no rights, their illegal combatants. Futhermore, the PMC:s killed in Fallujah sortied to what they knew was bandit land (was not under anykind of "allied" control) so "i think" that the operation was then offensive, and not defensive as "they have claimed".

So, that makes them armed, on offensive mission and paid for it, de facto mercenaries.

But then again im getting pretty tired of trying to make YOU SEE THE LIGHT. This is just the way it works.

Read, think and study before posting again. Thanks.

And dont just react with some BS, and btw, i have no clue to what was you replying here to in the first place... - according the UN they do not "the individual PMC:s fit the mold of MERC". - Perhaps you should do the research - on why were the PMC's there that day? and at the time it was not considered "hostile territory" as you lebeled it.

[FinnishMF]

Muslim site about torture:
http://www.albasrah.net/images/iraqi-pow/iraqi-pow
(contains more pics,shows rape)
Those bastards need RPG in their ass. ****ing nazis.

[sierraone]

those guys in the arab website don't look american...by the way it is quite graphic if people need to be warned

[TALOS]

those guys in the arab website don't look american...
thats funny, I was thinking the same thing

[Uninen]

and at the time it was not considered "hostile territory" as you lAbeled it.
The whole 'Sunni Triangle' was (and still is..) considered as hostile and unlawful. ;) ("Bandit land")

Now why would Fallujah make a exception? ;)

[TALOS]

and at the time it was not considered "hostile territory" as you lAbeled it.
The whole 'Sunni Triangle' was (and still is..) considered as hostile and unlawful. ;) ("Bandit land")

Now why would Fallujah make a exception? ;)
O cmon uninen, you know what he meant, at the time many different groups were driving all around those areas and they had to traverse the areas to do their jobs. They werent out on a search and destroy or even any style of military mission accordiing to all the reports that came out. If you have info to the contrary maybe you'd like to share it? :cantbeli: give it a rest, they were a security team employed to secure various things in-country. Please show proof otherwise if you want to call people MERCs

[stuntman]

Well I have no hard feelings toward the detainies! I bet they pray this is all that is done to them instead of what was done to the 4 brave contractors up in Falucrap!

[One?]

those guys in the arab website don't look american...
thats funny, I was thinking the same thing

According to US officials those pictures are of serbian m****ers raping muslim woman.

[One?]

Well I have no hard feelings toward the detainies! I bet they pray this is all that is done to them instead of what was done to the 4 brave contractors up in Falucrap!


stfu you racist piece of ****. Half of those in abu ghraib are being released and found innocent.

[stuntman]

Well I have no hard feelings toward the detainies! I bet they pray this is all that is done to them instead of what was done to the 4 brave contractors up in Falucrap!


stfu you racist piece of ****. Half of those in abu ghraib are being released and found innocent.

How am I racist? Did I say something about stealing Cadpat or maple syrup? I didn't mention the human rights abiding citizens of the Arabian peninsula, or Islam! So agian how am i racist!

I'm just saying I don't really feel bad for them compared to what they did to my country men up in Felucrap! Whats the problem?

Please keep your panties on and leave thishttp://curry.edschool.virginia.edu/go/edis771/webquests2001sp/sbenjaminaddison/canada.jpg at home! thx...

[sierraone]

those guys in the arab website don't look american...
thats funny, I was thinking the same thing

According to US officials those pictures are of serbian f*** raping muslim woman.

According to US officials??? who? where? it just looks like plain **** to me..staged stuff maybe?
These guys wear no insignia anywhere or have uniformity of any type
serbs never wore cammo like that.
it is not yugoslavia- muslim women there -albanian or bosnian- don't wear all that stuff that they wear in mid-east
the environment doesn't look like yugoslavia

-not that i am denying serbs did rape by the way before you jump on me..

[D.Sigurdsson]

Just to have it clear I'm not trying to justify anything that happened there.

When are people gonna stop taking pictures?
If you and your wife snap-of a few during ***, you can almost be 100% sure that someone outside of your household is gonna see them, the same thing can be said about these images.

If you don't want to get caught then don't do it, but if you ARE gonna do anything, don't take pictures cause they nearly always go into the hands of other people.

[One?]

those guys in the arab website don't look american...
thats funny, I was thinking the same thing

According to US officials those pictures are of serbian f*** raping muslim woman.

According to US officials??? who? where? it just looks like plain **** to me..staged stuff maybe?
These guys wear no insignia anywhere or have uniformity of any type
serbs never wore cammo like that.
it is not yugoslavia- muslim women there -albanian or bosnian- don't wear all that stuff that they wear in mid-east
the environment doesn't look like yugoslavia

-not that i am denying serbs did rape by the way before you jump on me..

It was on CNN sunday night around 10 pm. He said pictures being circulated are of serbian soldiers commiting the rapes and not US soldeirs. Some arab sites posted the pictures stating that US soldeirs are raping iraqis.

[DrunkenMaster]

what a great way to win the hearts and minds, what damn idiots.

[J-10]

It is said that CIA instigated MP's to illtreat Iraqi prisoners.

http://www.japantoday.com/e/?content=news&cat=8&id=297193

Monday, May 3, 2004 at 03:00 JST
WASHINGTON — A U.S. military report shows the torture of Iraqi prisoners by U.S. soldiers was systematic and often carried out at the request of intelligence groups including the Central Intelligence Agency, the New Yorker magazine reported on its web site Sunday.

[sierraone]

those guys in the arab website don't look american...
thats funny, I was thinking the same thing

According to US officials those pictures are of serbian f*** raping muslim woman.

According to US officials??? who? where? it just looks like plain **** to me..staged stuff maybe?
These guys wear no insignia anywhere or have uniformity of any type
serbs never wore cammo like that.
it is not yugoslavia- muslim women there -albanian or bosnian- don't wear all that stuff that they wear in mid-east
the environment doesn't look like yugoslavia

-not that i am denying serbs did rape by the way before you jump on me..

It was on CNN sunday night around 10 pm. He said pictures being circulated are of serbian soldiers commiting the rapes and not US soldeirs. Some arab sites posted the pictures stating that US soldeirs are raping iraqis.

Anybody can use dubious pictures of any kind to suppor their point of view (or cause) and just christen them whatever they want. They are americans, serbians, russians whatever. Frankly I think they are staged. It is just plain ****. The soldiers look too clean to be in a combat zone, they have no rifles, you don't see any bystanders, you see a praying shawl underneath to emphasize the 'muslim' and the pics are too steady and from different angles.

[LeMat]

So it is a freedom brought by the best democracy in the world?

To all Iraqi people!! You are free now!! That means you can be raped and abused for free. Also your oil is ours for free!!

[sierraone]

So it is a freedom brought by the best democracy in the world?

To all Iraqi people!! You are free now!! That means you can be raped and abused for free. Also your oil is ours for free!!

not the 'best' democracy in the world and not just them...your democracy as well LeMat..the rest of your post is not an argument just a flame...

[2Sheds_Jackson]

Look! Oppressed Iraqis! Somebody gas them!!

http://i.a.cnn.net/cnn/2004/WORLD/meast/05/05/iraq.abuse.main/top.abu.flag.ap.jpg

Oh wait, they have the right to demonstrate now. Man, for a people who've been denied the right for so long, they sure learned giant-flag-making & poster making skills pretty quickly. I wonder why they're not thanking us for providing them that freedom that they were to weak & timid to earn themselves....

[J-10]

http://www.dongjidao.com/upload/files/U608P1T1D3185140F21DT20040506195044.jpg

http://www.dongjidao.com/upload/files/U608P1T1D3185140F23DT20040506195044.jpg

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A5623-2004May5.html

New Prison Images Emerge

Graphic Photos May Be More Evidence of Abuse
By Christian Davenport
Washington Post Staff Writer
Thursday, May 6, 2004; Page A01

The collection of photographs begins like a travelogue from Iraq. Here are U.S. soldiers posing in front of a mosque. Here is a soldier riding a camel in the desert. And then: a soldier holding a leash tied around a man's neck in an Iraqi prison. He is naked, grimacing and lying on the floor.

Mixed in with more than 1,000 digital pictures obtained by The Washington Post are photographs of naked men, apparently prisoners, sprawled on top of one another while soldiers stand around them. There is another photograph of a naked man with a dark hood over his head, handcuffed to a cell door. And another of a naked man handcuffed to a bunk bed, his arms splayed so wide that his back is arched. A pair of women's underwear covers his head and face.
........

[n.ignomo]

About that girl :
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/05/07/national/07SOLD.html?hp