Eyewitness: On the ground in Falluja

[rokus2595]

Eyewitness: On the ground in Falluja

As US military commanders in Iraq say they are planning to pull back from Falluja, BBC News Online spoke to two Iraqi residents of Falluja to get a picture of life in the besieged city. The BBC is currently unable to get its own reporters inside Falluja.

Fadel al-Badrani, a ******* reporter in Falluja, says it is calmer in the city today compared to the two previous days.

"Every now and again, there is shelling. There was heavy shelling and exchange of fire about an hour ago in the industrial zone.

We don't go out of the house at all, of course. We've run out of food. We are living off tea and bread
Sabah Alani
Falluja resident

"I've just heard that a family was killed in a civilian car, by US forces.

The family was allowed into the city in a lull in the fighting. When the fighting resumed they were caught up in it. I'm told that they were hit by American fire from a plane."

Mr Badrani describes the situation for the city's residents as a "severe humanitarian crisis", due to the lack of water and electricity supplies, and shortages of foods and medicines.

"No aid is getting into Falluja right now. There are many families that cannot leave their houses because of the American snipers, especially in east, west and south.

"For the last seven days, at least, all the international aid that has come into the city has been piling up at the Jordanian hospital to the east of Falluja."

Running out of food

Sabah Alani is a retired doctor. He spoke to BBC News Online from his home in the north east of Falluja, not far from the industrial zone where there has been heavy fighting over the last few days.

"When the shelling happens, our house shakes, and most of our windows are shattered. Opposite us is a US sniper position.

I don't support [the insurgents], but the way the Americans have dealt with and are dealing with this city makes me hate every American here, more and more
Sabah Alani
"We don't go out of the house at all, of course. We've run out of food. We are living off tea and bread."

He also describes a severe humanitarian crisis, especially in the area he is in.

"One day recently, I heard, 23 trucks of water and food made it to Falluja. They didn't get to the areas it's most needed - and are 23 trucks of water and food enough for the 150,000 people that are left in the city?"

Driven to hate

Mr Alani says that siege of the city and the shelling is just increasing support for the insurgents in the city.

"It's not a matter of whether I or anyone else in the city supports the 'resistance' to the Americans.

"I don't support them, but the way the Americans have dealt with and are dealing with this city makes me hate every American here, more and more."

"We are being driven to hate them - me and everyone else here."
Story from BBC NEWS:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/2/hi/middle_east/3670587.stm

[Trident-za]

I don't know how credible this is, and I'm sure many here will dispute it on principle.... but I think it's kinda sad.

[Romulus]

"No aid is getting into Falluja right now. There are many families that cannot leave their houses because of the American snipers, especially in east, west and south.

Sounds like total Bull**** to me. Snipers are trained a little better to know the difference between a hostile and non-hostile target. Pure BS!

[Hydro]

"No aid is getting into Falluja right now. There are many families that cannot leave their houses because of the American snipers, especially in east, west and south.

Sounds like total Bull**** to me. Snipers are trained a little better to know the difference between a hostile and non-hostile target. Pure BS!

The fact that YOU know that is irrelevant, remember Iraqi civilians don't sit on militaryphotos.net making small talk about headspacing M2 Brownings or arguing the toss about US bootpatterns 1962-1983. They only know that a sniper is a sniper, no matter what side they're on.

[rokus2595]

"No aid is getting into Falluja right now. There are many families that cannot leave their houses because of the American snipers, especially in east, west and south.

Sounds like total Bull**** to me. Snipers are trained a little better to know the difference between a hostile and non-hostile target. Pure BS!

I belive he is telling the truth...why would a Dr lie about that?, and it helps explain how he now feels about the Americans in Iraq.

"I don't support them, but the way the Americans have dealt with and are dealing with this city makes me hate every American here, more and more."

"We are being driven to hate them - me and everyone else here."

[usa320]

You thinjk the man is telling the truth because he has a Dr. in front of his name?

rofl

Earlier reports of American snipers shooting civilians were ruled bull****, as is this one. Through a 4x scope, or even an 8x scope, its incredibly clear who is hostile and who is not.

[rokus2595]

You thinjk the man is telling the truth because he has a Dr. in front of his name? I never said he was telling the truth because he is a Dr, i called him a doctor because he is a Doctor! :cantbeli: ;).
If he was a carpenter i would have referred to him as such. My point was that here was a civilian, as raw as you can get them, telling you what he sees happening in Falluja, and as a civilian, we should listen to what he has to say.




Earlier reports of American snipers shooting civilians were ruled bull****, as is this one. Who has ruled this particular report bull****?

[csqnsas]

Just read any book about WWII. You will normally see anybody who was shot always says "I was shot by a sniper" or "I shot the sniper that hit my mate".

The fog of war1 for god sake amd think about the normal Iraq ciilian . How the heck do they know the difference between a snipers weapon and scope and any other weapon with any other site on it.

Even in Bosnia we were called snipers as we had SUSAT sites on the SA80.

Get real and read a bit more than Solsier of Fortune and Soft air weekly.

The adveradge Iraq is caught up and would you go out to the local 7-11 in the middle of a gun battle.

[budanski]

rokus, why not just keep it simple and post "DEATH TO AMERICA" in ALL your posts?

[rokus2595]

rokus, why not just keep it simple and post "DEATH TO AMERICA" in ALL your posts? Because that would sadden me to no end Budanski. I have nothing against the US military, my beef is with the US foreign policy makers, the ones such as Bush and his VC...the ones forcing the US fight this silly ass war...

[Romulus]

the ones forcing the US fight this silly ass war

You can lob John Kerry and the rest of Congress in that lot too. They voted to go to war as well.

[Spearin]

I believe the article. None of you know better than the people who are there.

They are probably afraid of the US Snipers... not because they have been shot at, but would you be afraid of a Marine with a large rifle pointed at you?

[Romulus]

I believe the article.

Why am I not suprised.

[Longbranch]

This is from last summer…

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/allnews/content_objectid=13087653_
method=full_siteid=50143_headline=-US-TROOPS-ADMIT-SHOOTING-
IRAQI-CIVILIANS-name_page.html

US TROOPS ADMIT SHOOTING IRAQI CIVILIANS
Jun 19 2003

By Naveed Raja
*
American troops today admitted they routinely gun down Iraqi civilians - some of whom are entirely innocent.

As distrust of the invading forces increases amongst the local population US soldiers said they have killed civilians without hesitation, shot injured opponents and abandoned them to die in agony.

The testimonies of the troops on the ground further expose George Bush's claims about the role his forces are playing in the failing reconstruction of Iraq.

Sergeant First Class John Meadows summed up the prevailing attitude amongst his colleagues telling the Evening Standard that Iraqi fighters were dressed in civilian clothes.

"You can't distinguish between who's trying to kill you and who's not," he said.

"Like, the only way to get through s*** like that was to concentrate on getting through it by killing as many people as you can, people you know are trying to kill you. Killing them first and getting home."

And in an admission that directly contrasts with the line coming out from the Pentagon's spin doctors Specialist Corporal Michael Richardson added: "There was no dilemma when it came to shooting people who were not in uniform, I just pulled the trigger.

"It was up close and personal the whole time, there wasn't a big distance. If they were there, they were enemy, whether in uniform or not. Some were, some weren't."

Describing the scene during combat Richardson admitted shooting injured soldiers and leaving them to die.

He said: "S***, I didn't help any of them. I wouldn't help the f******. There were some you let die. And there were some you double-tapped."

Making a shooting sign with his hand he went on: "Once you'd reached the objective, and once you'd shot them and you're moving through, anything there, you shoot again. You didn't want any prisoners of war. You hate them so bad while you're fighting, and you're so terrified, you can't really convey the feeling, but you don't want them to live."

And despite there being no link between Iraq and the September 11 attacks Richardson admitted that it gave him his motivation to fight Iraqis.

"There's a picture of the World Trade Centre hanging up by my bed and I keep one in my flak jacket. Every time I feel sorry for these people I look at that. I think, 'They hit us at home and, now, it's our turn.' I don't want to say payback but, you know, it's pretty much payback."

*****

This is from last week…

http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,2763,1193729,00.html

'Getting aid past US snipers is impossible'

Jo Wilding, 29, is a human rights campaigner and trainee lawyer from Bristol. She and two other foreign nationals have been inside Falluja for the past week, providing medical and humanitarian aid

Saturday April 17, 2004
The Guardian

Everybody in Falluja has lost someone. There is not a person here who doesn't have a close friend or relative who has been killed, and a lot of them have lost several. We are hearing that the death toll is around 880 civilians, and that within the first few days 86 children were killed.

People have been under bombardment for the last eight days. A lot of people are trapped in their houses still - despite the ceasefire - without food, without water and terrified to leave. Food and medical aid is now arriving but the problem is getting the aid around the city. A lot of it is delivered to the mosque, but then getting it to the hospitals, past the American snipers, is proving to be impossible.

The main hospital apparently has been destroyed by bombing and the second largest is covered by US snipers - the Iraqis call it sniper alley. So Iraqi people are not able to get to and from the hospitals. I was working from a private clinic that had been turned into a hospital, and there was also one other improvised hospital in a car garage.

Nobody could give us a figure for injuries but there was an enormous stream of people going to this clinic, this makeshift facility. It comes in bursts. There is a lull in fighting and then more people start coming into the clinic. We saw two kids arriving with their grandmother, they had all been wounded by gunfire, they said by American snipers, while they were trying to leave their house to flee to Baghdad.

An elderly woman with a wound to the head was still carrying the white flag she had been holding when she was shot. They were all saying it was American snipers shooting - and we know that the US is using armed marines on rooftops to hold the parts of city they are controlling.

The times I have been shot at - once in an ambulance and once on foot trying to deliver medical supplies - it was US snipers in both cases. It is so unacceptable to stop medical aid getting through. They could have just asked to search us.

We saw mainly bullet wounds for the majority of civilians. Families are getting injured when they try to leave the house, trying to escape for Baghdad. A bullet goes astray or it gets them in their house. Then a lot of people are injured from shelling. They get hit by shrapnel that gets into the house.

Now the people you see on the streets of Falluja are the fighters. Everyone else is staying indoors. We were able to evacuate some women and children from their houses. We were asked to go and pick up some people close to a marine line.

We went and found an old man lying outside his house. He was unarmed and he was dead, shot in the back. I don't know how long he had been there, but his family were still inside the house, too terrified even to go and get him, even though to leave a body in the street for Muslims is just not possible. They were trapped in the no man's land between the mojahedin line and the marine line.

When the children came out of the house, they were crying and screaming "Baba, Baba" [Daddy, Daddy]. They were so frightened. We got this family out and also other families on the same street, including one where the marines were occupying their roof.

There is this terrible sadness in Falluja but also a strong community feeling. People are making every effort to help evacuate others, to distribute food, to negotiate for a ceasefire. There is a huge number of unqualified volunteers at the clinic.

There is much outrage too, at what the Americans have done. One of the doctors said to us he was happy when Saddam was got rid of, but then everything that had gone on since was worse.

Both sides have been firing, despite the ceasefire. On Wednesday night some mojahedin were trying to shoot down a drone plane. There are young children involved in the fighting. I saw boys, about 11 years old, masked up and holding AK-47s.

There is nowhere in Falluja that is safe . The only place people can go is Baghdad. At the checkpoint leaving Falluja towards Baghdad, women and children have been trying to leave, but in cars driven by men (women don't drive here) so they weren't allowed out. They are not letting men aged 14 to 45 - of "fighting age" - leave the city.

We negotiated so that one male driver was allowed per car through the checkpoint. But people fear that once a large proportion of women and children leave, the Americans will destroy the city.

· Jo Wilding was talking to Rachel Shabi

[Haiw]

You thinjk the man is telling the truth because he has a Dr. in front of his name?

rofl

Earlier reports of American snipers shooting civilians were ruled bull****, as is this one. Through a 4x scope, or even an 8x scope, its incredibly clear who is hostile and who is not.
Okay, I've said it before and I'll say it again, a sniper doesn't necessarily mean a trained sniper with a gun with a bigass scope. Every normal civilian will use the word as well for a hidden shooter who's waiting in a fixed position.

[Uninen]

I believe the article.

Why am I not suprised.

Didnt "your own" study in Iraq show that more than half of Iraqis hate USA's guts and futhermore that more than 60% think that they wont ever get rid of American troops unless they throw you out..... (fight you out..) and what is more, this study was completed before this "insurgency" began in "big way"... IE before Falluja battles.

[Fintin]

Uninen....what kinda music do you listen to?

[throat warbler mangrove]

I don't understand how anyone who has served in the grunts--assuming many of you have--finds it hard to believe news articles of unarmed civilians getting shot, either by mistake, revenge, or in some cases, homicidal gratification. The mistake the Administration is making is to glorify the military in order to engender support for the occupation of Iraq. I hate to disillusion some of you but many marine grunts are just dumb ass kids (and I say that with the fondest of memories).

[Huck Mucus]

I don't understand how anyone who has served in the grunts--assuming many of you have--finds it hard to believe news articles of unarmed civilians getting shot, either by mistake, revenge, or in some cases, homicidal gratification. The mistake the Administration is making is to glorify the military in order to engender support for the occupation of Iraq. I hate to disillusion some of you but many marine grunts are just dumb ass kids (and I say that with the fondest of memories).

You are exactly right. When I was young, dumb and full of ***, I was an attrocity waiting to happen. Me and most of the men I knew. I can recall about 1 or 2 men who had what it would have taken to stand up to peer pressure, buck the trend, and try to step in and stop a "pack mentality" gone wrong.

I'm just glad I don't have to loose any sleep at night for raping whores and such. I got lucky by running alone and avoiding the pack. But had I been there, I propably would have caved in and joined the killing.

Maybe things are different today. Maybe a higher rate of high school grads, sensativity training, and other such politically correct things make for a better, more moral, ethical, and rounded grunt today. Maybe today's Marines are different. Somehow I don't think so. War has changed little down through the ages.

[admar2]

ah, I see, the seige in Falluja and all the fighting is of course the fault of the americans, and not the insurgents.

:cantbeli: how foolish of me not to realize this before.

[khukuri]

I don't understand how anyone who has served in the grunts--assuming many of you have--finds it hard to believe news articles of unarmed civilians getting shot, either by mistake, revenge, or in some cases, homicidal gratification. The mistake the Administration is making is to glorify the military in order to engender support for the occupation of Iraq. I hate to disillusion some of you but many marine grunts are just dumb ass kids (and I say that with the fondest of memories).

Serve a couple of years and you suddenly become a good guy!
Iam not saying that all marines are assholes, but as anywhere else some of them are. Kids on this board just cant beleive it if some marine did something wrong.

I dont know, for them maybe its like when you realise that santa dont exist, a way you see life just got destroyed :D

[khukuri]

ah, I see, the seige in Falluja and all the fighting is of course the fault of the americans, and not the insurgents.

:cantbeli: how foolish of me not to realize this before.


i support us and all but...

who invaded iraq? and who lives there?

so plz shut up

[Spearin]

I believe the article.

Why am I not suprised.

Why, because I'm a moderately-Liberal Canadian soldier?


I don't understand how anyone who has served in the grunts--assuming many of you have--finds it hard to believe news articles of unarmed civilians getting shot, either by mistake, revenge, or in some cases, homicidal gratification. The mistake the Administration is making is to glorify the military in order to engender support for the occupation of Iraq. I hate to disillusion some of you but many marine grunts are just dumb ass kids (and I say that with the fondest of memories).

Is throat warbler mangrove a moderately-Liberal Canadian soldier as well? Doubt it... and he has the same views as I do and even put it into harsher terms!

(Well said twm :))

[Trident-za]

I don't understand how anyone who has served in the grunts--assuming many of you have--finds it hard to believe news articles of unarmed civilians getting shot, either by mistake, revenge, or in some cases, homicidal gratification. The mistake the Administration is making is to glorify the military in order to engender support for the occupation of Iraq. I hate to disillusion some of you but many marine grunts are just dumb ass kids (and I say that with the fondest of memories).

Good points... I doubt that all Marines shoot at civilians, but so many people seem to assume that because these are Americans and because they are trained Marines its just comlete bull****. Amazing.... People of all countries have their fair share of viscious, nasty kids who would just love to have the chance to be the biggest bully on the block. Not to mention that when the brown stuff hits the fan, a lot of "normal" kids do very unnormal things.... I doubt its as widespread as portrayed by Al Jeezera etc, but still....

And no, thinking that some civilians did get shot (accidently OR delibrately) by Marines doesn't mean that Falluja is all the fault of the Americans. Where the hell do you find that "link in logic"?