ETA or Islamists.....Madrid 2004

[Lazy Lob]

I have read some bumf on the trial going on in Madrid at present. It’s getting a bit sticky as it seems that ETA may have been involved or at an extreme orchestrated the bombings in 2004.

Do any Spaniards know how long this trial is likely to go on for?

At present it seems someone may have lied to the Aznar government on the explosives used. Police forensics reports were tampered with so as to exclude ETA involvement.

If the trial confirms the above could it imply that this was the first European Coup d’état of the 21st century.

What is the general feeling over there in Spain?

[theholeinthedonut]

I remember hearing something in that line on the radio news, some six or eight weeks ago, if memory serves me right they said that there was a possibility that ETA helped the islamists to lay their hands on the explosives...I'm not sure about it.
Would be good to get some input from Spanish members.

[Dasein]

The ETA has never gone for the mass casualty attacks, and has usually provided warning to authorities before setting off bombs, and takes responsibility for those attacks, so why would they suddenly change tactics like this?

[Lazy Lob]

The ETA has never gone for the mass casualty attacks, and has usually provided warning to authorities before setting off bombs, and takes responsibility for those attacks, so why would they suddenly change tactics like this?

Maybe that they were on the verge of being rubbed out?

[theholeinthedonut]

Al Qaida never used airplanes to kill people on a mass-murder scale before......
9/11 must have been somebody else then......
I think it was clear by both previous posts that it was a request for further information, not a definite judgment of whom to blame for the Madrid bombings.

[muck]

Was there not this medium scandal that the prime minister at that time steered all tracks on the ETA to increase his chances to get re-elected?

Why should ETA be involved in such a massmurder? Except the fact that it is not their modus operandi, such an attack would be anything but not good for their aims - and in addition, there are enough proofs for the guilt of these islamists against whom a trial is held anyway.

[Dasein]

Al Qaida never used airplanes to kill people on a mass-murder scale before......
9/11 must have been somebody else then......

Al Qaeda had a history of mass casualty attacks, however, so while the 9/11 attacks were a new tactic, they were not a break from their prior MO. The Madrid bombings, on the other hand, are a major break from the traditional ETA MO.

[theholeinthedonut]

As far as I remember Aznar was told quite early by the police that the explosives used made a connection to ETA the most probable hypothesis. Instead of letting the inquiry going on he blamed ETA very soon, too soon. That was really in the opening hours of the investigation. An inquiry commission later exonerated him and his governement of any manipulation of the inquiry. He just jumped the gun and lost the elections because the socialist party accused him of deliberately blaming ETA when in reality it was Al Qaida, as an answer to the Spanish involvment in the Iraq war.

[juliuspret]

ETA were no responsible for the Madrid Bombings and trying to blame them brought down Aznars government!!!

Could Spanish members please voice their opinions on this as the bombings received MASSIVE media coverage here in Ireland and it was clear that the bombings were carried out by Islamic terrorists.

Am I the only one who remembers the building that housed the remaining members of the terrorist cell being blown up when it was being raided!!

[zad]

I have read some bumf on the trial going on in Madrid at present. It’s getting a bit sticky as it seems that ETA may have been involved or at an extreme orchestrated the bombings in 2004.

Do any Spaniards know how long this trial is likely to go on for?

At present it seems someone may have lied to the Aznar government on the explosives used. Police forensics reports were tampered with so as to exclude ETA involvement.

If the trial confirms the above could it imply that this was the first European Coup d’état of the 21st century.

What is the general feeling over there in Spain?

ETA was not involved in any way with the 11-M attacks in Madrid

The attack was carried by a islamist cell dismantled three days after the attack.

The explosives were provided by a drug traffiquer who has stoled them from a mine were he worked for a time, he is in jail too.

For the last months in the trial about the 11-M there haven´t been ANY probe small or big about any ETA involvement in the attack, all the alleged "ETA involvement hints" has been dismantled.

the general feeling in Spain is that PP and former president Aznar are extremely bad lossers, actually even the PP has stopped talking about ETA involvement, it is too embarrasing for them.

[Roldwin]

in my opinion, this trial is just a joke. I'm tired of politicians, more interested in making acussations to erode the adversary than to actually clarify the responsibles, the intelligence lacks, etc..

[Lazy Lob]

ETA was not involved in any way with the 11-M attacks in Madrid

The attack was carried by a islamist cell dismantled three days after the attack.

The explosives were provided by a drug traffiquer who has stoled them from a mine were he worked for a time, he is in jail too.

For the last months in the trial about the 11-M there haven´t been ANY probe small or big about any ETA involvement in the attack, all the alleged "ETA involvement hints" has been dismantled.

the general feeling in Spain is that PP and former president Aznar are extremely bad lossers, actually even the PP has stopped talking about ETA involvement, it is too embarrasing for them.

Old info (and tainted so it seems), as I said just bumf. Shed some light.......

[foxtrot023]

weekly review on the trials
http://www.elmundo.es/elmundo/2007/04/12/espana/1176381900.html?a=bce80e586daf5a09c1b28bc7eaef0628&t=1176404198

[zad]

LazyLob, I will sugest you some ideas for your next threads:

1.- The amazing conexion between 11-S, ETA and the evil president of Spain Jose Luis Rodriguez Zapatero.

2.- New probes about the Dallas plot, ETA involved in the assesination of Kenedy, Zapatero was the second shooter.

3.- ETA and the evil spanish socialist goverment arming yanyawid militias in Sudan.

4.- Secrets training camps for Al Quaeda in Vasque Country ruled by ETA and the evil socialist president Zapatero

5.- Osama Bin Laden meets Zapatero in the Moncloa for new terrorits plots.

6.- current spanish goverment, evil plot, ETA... ad nausea....

[AROUETLJ]

Could I ask a bone question, hopefully without provoking flame wars? What's the connection between ETA and IRA/PIRA? I was watching a documentary about Basque terrorists, and they showed videos of ETA rallies. In one of them you could clearly see an Irish tricolour. Is it just an ideological link, or have weapons or explosives moved between both groups in the past? And does ETA have any links with Corsican separatists? Were there or are there any links with European Marxist-Leninist groups such as Brigate Rosse?

[miguelencanarias]

I have read some bumf on the trial going on in Madrid at present. It’s getting a bit sticky as it seems that ETA may have been involved or at an extreme orchestrated the bombings in 2004.

Do any Spaniards know how long this trial is likely to go on for?

At present it seems someone may have lied to the Aznar government on the explosives used. Police forensics reports were tampered with so as to exclude ETA involvement.

If the trial confirms the above could it imply that this was the first European Coup d’état of the 21st century.

What is the general feeling over there in Spain?

Where the hell did you get that info, LazyLob? Because it is exactly THE OPPOSITE.

The trial has proved, once and for all, that there was no link whatsoever between ETA and the Madrid bombings. It also made painfully clear that the former goverment lied to the Spanish people in an attempt to blame ETA when the Police had already discarded that possibility and was focused in the Islamic thread. The reason being that if the bombings were confirmed to be of Islamic origin, the right-wing Popular Party (then in goverment) would lose the elections, for the attack would be seen as a punishment for our participation in the Iraq war, which 95% of the Spanish population strongly opposed. If some sort of ETA link could have been stablished, the elections would have gone the other way, for the Popular Party favoured a hard line against the ETA terrorists.

What is more, it is also painfully clear now that the Popular Party invented and pursued for the last three years a conspiracy theory that is now being ridiculed by every objective observer in the country, to their utmost embarrassement.

It is good that cold facts and serious investigation are bringing this charade to an end, because for the last three years we have been suffering in this country an untolerable atmosphere of tension, artificially created by the Popular Party and its media cronies as a means to regain power.

[theholeinthedonut]

Thanks for correcting wrong rumors miguelencanarias!!

[Lazy Lob]

Where the hell do you get your info, LazyLob? Because it is exactly THE OPPOSITE....

Ok, thanks. How does Titadyne 30AG have any bearing on all of this?

[miguelencanarias]

Titadyne is the name of the explosive used by ETA. It was not used in the Madrid bombings.

Dinamite was used instead.

[zad]

Ok, thanks. How does Titadyne 30AG have any bearing on all of this?

The bombs of 11-M were made of dinamite Goma2-ECO not of Tytadine, the Goma2-ECO was smugled from mines in Asturias, Spain, the smugler is in jail now.

The interior minister of the former goverment was told by the police a few hours after the explosion that the explosives were Goma2-ECO not Tytadine.

If you speak spanish this will ilustrate you, is about the final experts inform about the explosives used in the 11-M it has been validated by 7 of the 8 experts of the comission:

http://www.elpais.com/articulo/espana/analisis/final/dinamita/11-M/demuestra/lugar/dudas/era/igual/robada/Asturias/elpepuesp/20070227elpepunac_11/Tes

[R.D.]

Al Qaida never used airplanes to kill people on a mass-murder scale before......
9/11 must have been somebody else then......
So you think Al Qaida did it and you would bet your life on it? Maybe it's those people who were talking about a New World Order on 9/11 in 1991 - yeah that's right 1991...