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hist2004
04-13-2007, 02:39 PM
April 13, 2007

The neocons have been routed. But they are not all wrong

Gerard Baker

Every now and then an intellectual movement, a school of social, economic or political thought, jumps the cultural barrier that divides the arid squabbling of university senior common rooms from the saloon bar brawling of everyday political discussion.

In the 1970s it was monetarism that made the switch into the mainstream. An economic theory, rooted in orthodox neoclassical explanations about the causes of inflation, was suddenly as familiar a subject to TV viewers and newspaper readers as changes in the cast of MASH.

Since its complexities were too great to comprehend, most commentators did the safe thing and simply looked at the identities of its principal advocates. These seemed to be readily identifiable right-wing villains, so in the demotic demonology of the day monetarism became shorthand for greedy, heartless conservatives.

In the first years of the 21st century, history will recall that it was neoconservatism that played the role of most despised and least understood intellectual theory. For years it languished in the obscurity of certain US universities and think-tanks. Though its adherents were important protagonists in the Cold War, it never really got much of a public airing as a theoretical system of its own.

It took, improbably, the arrival of George Bush in the White House and September 11, 2001, to catapult it into the public consciousness. When Mr Bush cited its most simplified tenet — that the US should seek to promote liberal democracy around the world — as a key case for invading Iraq, neoconservatism was suddenly everywhere. It was, to its many critics, a unified ideology that justified military adventurism, sanctioned torture and promoted aggressive Zionism.

Almost as suddenly as it emerged from obscurity, neoconservatism seems to have collapsed. As the misery in Iraq has deepened, as President Bush and the Republican Party have stumbled deeper into the mire, and as Britain and Europe seem eager to move quickly towards a kind of social democratic system that seeks an all-encompassing multicultural accommodation, the neocons look routed.

It is not just by the Left that the ideology has been rejected, either. The only even vaguely neocon candidate for the Republican presidential nomination, Senator John McCain, is in deep trouble. Britain’s Conservative leader has explicitly rejected neoconservatism.

This is not the place, and I am certainly not the person, for a detailed philosophical study of the ideology. Instead, let’s take the most compelling case against it as a guiding principle for foreign policy: that the war in Iraq has demonstrated beyond a doubt the grotesque naivety of its main thrust.

First, that you can, simply by the exercise of military and other forms of hard power, bring the blessings of liberal democracy to any part of the world. And secondly that, as matter of national security exigency, you should strive to do just that since only a world of liberal democracies will in the end guarantee peace and stability. Iraq doesn’t, it must be admitted, look good on either count.

The US has failed to bring real democracy there, despite losing more than 3,000 troops and spending more than $500 billion. An election or two won’t really cut it — there is nothing civil about the society that now exists in Iraq.

The second count looks even worse. The attempt to push for democracy in Iraq has clearly not been in the US national interest, has not made things more peaceful and stable. The democracy that exists after a fashion in the region — in the Palestinian territories, say, or in Pakistan — doesn’t bode too well for the idea of peace and stability, either.

Some neocons continue to defend the Iraq war on the ground that the idea was right but the execution was disastrous. This blames everything on Donald Rumsfeld, and, increasingly, on George Bush, for not providing resources for the struggle commensurate with the challenge.

This is not really honest. While few would deny that the Bush Administration has produced a textbook example of how not to pursue regime change, most of those who now criticise the White House were not sounding a warning four years ago, when Baghdad fell, that the US needed a vast increase in its commitment.

A more honest judgment would have to be that neoconservatives and their sympathisers — yes, me — badly underestimated the scale of difficulty of effecting radical change in a country such as Iraq. It’s no good blaming either Bush-Rumsfeld or Iraqis themselves. The fact is, the war’s opponents had it right when they said the US would not be able to pull that brutalised, fractious country into the community of civilised states.

It was an error of judgment and not to acknowledge that is to dodge responsibility for the massive daily suffering of the Iraqi people. I still do not think, however, that the basic neoconservative diagnosis was wrong: that the course of history in the Middle East needed a radical change if the world were not to suffer an even greater misery.

The “realists” may have been right that toppling Iraq would lead to instability, but you can’t look at the history of the past 50 years, with its tyrannies and religious fanaticism, and think that in the long term this was sustainable without many more violent clashes with the West.

In the end, the rise and fall of neoconservatism in government may prove not unlike that of its predecessor in the obscure ideology-turned-official-policy stakes, monetarism.

Monetarism was discredited as policy because, while it offered the correct analysis, it failed as policy. I suspect the same will be said for the much derided, little-lamented neoconservatism. It would be foolish if the US tried to do again what it tried in Iraq. But it would be even more foolish to believe that ridding the world of tyranny is itself a mistake. The essence of good policy is fixing the right means in the right circumstances to that end.

Source: (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/gerard_baker/article1647410.ece)

Hist2004

Jobu
04-13-2007, 02:44 PM
Bad article.

The basic premise is in this excerpt:


let’s take the most compelling case against it as a guiding principle for foreign policy: that the war in Iraq has demonstrated beyond a doubt the grotesque naivety of its main thrust.

First, that you can, simply by the exercise of military and other forms of hard power, bring the blessings of liberal democracy to any part of the world. And secondly that, as matter of national security exigency, you should strive to do just that since only a world of liberal democracies will in the end guarantee peace and stability.

That's not the main thrust of neoconservatism. The entire article is a straw man set up by the author so he can knock it down himself.

Klatuu
04-13-2007, 03:57 PM
Noted Neocon William Jefferson Clinton retorts:

STATEMENT BY THE PRESIDENT
THE WHITE HOUSE Office of the Press Secretary
For Immediate Release
October 31, 1998
STATEMENT BY THE PRESIDENT
Today I am signing into law H.R. 4655, the “Iraq Liberation Act of 1998.” This Act makes clear that it is the sense of the Congress that the United States should support those elements of the Iraqi opposition that advocate a very different future for Iraq than the bitter reality of internal repression and external aggression that the current regime in Baghdad now offers.
Let me be clear on what the U.S. objectives are: The United States wants Iraq to rejoin the family of nations as a freedom-loving and law-abiding member. This is in our interest and that of our allies within the region.
The United States favors an Iraq that offers its people freedom at home. I categorically reject arguments that this is unattainable due to Iraq’s history or its ethnic or sectarian make-up. Iraqis deserve and desire freedom like everyone else. The United States looks forward to a democratically supported regime that would permit us to enter into a dialogue leading to the reintegration of Iraq into normal international life.
My Administration has pursued, and will continue to pursue, these objectives through active application of all relevant United Nations Security Council resolutions. The evidence is overwhelming that such changes will not happen under the current Iraq leadership.
In the meantime, while the United States continues to look to the Security Council’s efforts to keep the current regime’s behavior in check, we look forward to new leadership in Iraq that has the support of the Iraqi people. The United States is providing support to opposition groups from all sectors of the Iraqi community that could lead to a popularly supported government.
On October 21, 1998, I signed into law the Omnibus Consolidated and Emergency Supplemental Appropriations Act, 1999, which made $8 million available for assistance to the Iraqi democratic opposition. This assistance is intended to help the democratic opposition unify, work together more effectively, and articulate the aspirations of the Iraqi people for a pluralistic, participatory political system that will include all of Iraq’s diverse ethnic and religious groups. As required by the Emergency Supplemental Appropriations Act for FY 1998 (Public Law 105-174), the Department of State submitted a report to the Congress on plans to establish a program to support the democratic opposition. My Administration, as required by that statute, has also begun to implement a program to compile information regarding allegations of genocide, crimes against humanity, and war crimes by Iraq’s current leaders as a step towards bringing to justice those directly responsible for such acts.
The Iraq Liberation Act of 1998 provides additional, discretionary authorities under which my Administration can act to further the objectives I outlined above. There are, of course, other important elements of U.S. policy. These include the maintenance of U.N. Security Council support efforts to eliminate Iraq’s weapons and missile programs and economic sanctions that continue to deny the regime the means to reconstitute those threats to international peace and security. United States support for the Iraqi opposition will be carried out consistent with those policy objectives as well. Similarly, U.S. support must be attuned to what the opposition can effectively make use of as it develops over time. With those observations, I sign H.R. 4655 into law.
WILLIAM J. CLINTON
THE WHITE HOUSE,
October 31, 1998.

Does this mean Bill and Hillary were double agents in the Vast Right Wing Conspiracy?

Dasein
04-13-2007, 04:01 PM
The neocon movement is very closely linked with liberalism at a foriegn policy level. Forieng policy also tends to cross party lines - there have been Republican and Democrat realists and liberals.

Klatuu
04-13-2007, 04:20 PM
The neocon movement is very closely linked with liberalism at a foriegn policy level. Forieng policy also tends to cross party lines - there have been Republican and Democrat realists and liberals.

"WhenI use a word, it means just what I choose it to mean, neither more nor less."
H. Dumpty

Dasein
04-13-2007, 05:10 PM
Liberalism has many different meanings depending on context. Liberalism at a foreign policy level is not the same as liberalism in national politics.

afreu
04-13-2007, 05:25 PM
The fact is, the war’s opponents had it right when they said the US would not be able to pull that brutalised, fractious country into the community of civilised states.

Wow, I love this. Must be the best article I read on militaryphotos.net since the Iraq war started.

Spinal Tap 84
04-13-2007, 05:48 PM
Liberalism has many different meanings depending on context. Liberalism at a foreign policy level is not the same as liberalism in national politics.
This is very true. I am by no means an expert, but I vaguely remember my political science teacher trying to discuss this issue. Basically democracy = liberal and monarchy = conservative.

Here is the wiki on neo-conservatism: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neo_conservatism

Dakota435
04-13-2007, 06:02 PM
Whadda buncha absolute tripe. Yeah the social democrat model is the way of the future...

JKD
04-13-2007, 07:14 PM
Almost as suddenly as it emerged from obscurity, neoconservatism seems to have collapsed.

*Yoda voice*
"At an end your rule is. And not short enough it was."

sinophile
04-14-2007, 07:22 PM
The fact is, the war’s opponents had it right when they said the US would not be able to pull that brutalised, fractious country into the community of civilised states.
Baker believes the adminstration intended on uniting Iraq under a single democratic government... I can't believe ANYONE of any sophistication believes that.

A country with a $181.2 Billion economy (Iran) is going to implode under the pressure applied by a $12.49 Trillion economy (USA). Iraq is just another major pressure point. I think this was always the plan.

Remember, 1 Iranian Rial is worth:

0.0000798725 EUR
0.000107983 USD
0.000834102 CNY
0.000439467 ILS

People say the US can't afford this fight... but the Iranians are in far worse shape.

Dakota435
04-14-2007, 10:39 PM
Baker believes the adminstration intended on uniting Iraq under a single democratic government... I can't believe ANYONE of any sophistication believes that.

A country with a $181.2 Billion economy (Iran) is going to implode under the pressure applied by a $12.49 Trillion economy (USA). Iraq is just another major pressure point. I think this was always the plan.

Remember, 1 Iranian Rial is worth:

0.0000798725 EUR
0.000107983 USD
0.000834102 CNY
0.000439467 ILS

People say the US can't afford this fight... but the Iranians are in far worse shape.

Actually the administration has been conducting a very effective behind the scenes effort to paralyze the Iranian economy through its influence on the international banking system, independently of sanctions. Iran cannot get normal credit any more and has to go to very expensive and awkward alternate sources for funding. They are having a hell of a time getting parts or expertise for their oil industry and it's slowly running into the ground. They are heavily dependent on imported gasoline and a short bombing campaign and gasoline blockade would bring the economy to collapse in short order. They are in fact very vulnerable.

I think the administration made it a goal to give a Iraq a united democratic government the old college try, but would be happy with any result this side of something like Jordan. The jury's still out on that though. They may pull it off yet. The Kurds are pretty much already there.