Deal Is Reached to Cede Control of City to Iraqi Troops

[HELEX]

I marked one word in red.... :roll:


Deal Is Reached to Cede Control of City to Iraqi Troops
By JOHN KIFNER and EDWARD WONG

Published: April 30, 2004

FALLUJA, Iraq, April 30 — The Marines began moving from some of their positions here today as a former Iraqi Army general entered the besieged city under a plan intended to restore order with a new Iraqi force of 600 to 1,000 troops led by officers who once served Saddam Hussein.

The officer who will lead the takeover, Gen. Jasim Muhammad Salih, entered Falluja in his old uniform to cheers from hundreds of onlookers, and he paid a visit one of the largest mosques in the city.

A spokesman for the American military, Brig. Gen. Mark Kimmitt, declined to provide details about the leader of the new Iraqi force, but said that "he has been carefully chosen, has been initially vetted."

Outside the town, a hotspot of anti-American resistance throughout the year-old American-led military occupation, two marines were reported killed and six were wounded in a suicide car bombing this morning.

The Marines, who have born the brunt of the fighting on the coalition side of the three-week battle over Falluja, will continue to "maintain a presence in around Falluja" until the new Iraqi "battalion's units demonstrate a capability to man designated checkpoints and positions," General Kimmitt said.

"The coalition objectives remain unchanged — to eliminate armed groups, collect and positively control all heavy weapons and turn over foreign fighters and disarm anti-Iraqi insurgents in Falluja," General Kimmitt said in a Baghdad briefing. "We are certainly not withdrawing from Fallujah," he added. "Nothing could be further from the truth. Some of the Marine forces are repositioning around Fallujah."

In a Pentagon briefing from Qatar, Gen. John Abizaid, who commands all United States forces in the Middle East, expressed a cautious optimism of a "possible breakthrough" in Falluja.

"The opportunity is to build an Iraqi security force from former elements of the army that will work under the command of coalition forces, that will be mentored and worked next to by coalition forces," General Abizaid said. "And I think that we should be very careful in thinking that this effort to build this Iraqi capacity will necessarily calm down the situation in Falluja tonight or over the next several days. It's a step-by-step effort that will have to include a clear understanding of the security situation."

General Kimmitt emphasized that the Marines would retain authority over the new Iraqi unit.


"This battalion will be recruited largely from former soldiers of the Iraqi army," he said. "The battalion will function as a subordinate command under the operational control of the First Marine Expeditionary Force."

News of the proposal emerged on Thursday as fresh American airstrikes and skirmishes were erupting late in the day inside Falluja, 30 miles west of Baghdad. Pentagon officials, who often hear of decisions by battlefield commanders several hours later, said that negotiations on a number of possible solutions had been under way to end the three-week siege here.

The plan marked a shift in the strategy to end weeks of violence that have cost many American and Iraqi lives as well as support for the war among ordinary Americans.

The top Marine Corps officer in Iraq, Lt. Gen. James T. Conway, explained in an e-mail message on Thursday night that the new Iraqi unit, which he said was formally called the First Battalion of the Fallujah Brigade, would be made up of "mostly former Iraqi Army officers and men."

General Conway said a small group of marines would be assigned to the unit as a liason to American forces. The head of the Iraqi force would be the former commanding general of the 38th Iraqi Infantry Division, and would report to General Conway.

Even as details of the plan leaked out, 10 American soldiers were killed on Thursday, 8 by a huge suicide car bomb south of the capital, Baghdad, and 2 others in separate attacks, one in Baghdad and one in Baquba.

Under the plan, which officials say was proposed by tribal leaders and former Iraqi military officers, Marine units would pull back from in and around Falluja, to be replaced in stages by some the Iraqi force under direct command of former Iraqi officers.

http://graphics7.nytimes.com/images/2004/04/30/international/30cnd-fall.4.650.jpg
Hundreds of onlookser cheered Gen. Jasim Muhammad Salih as he entered Falluja in his old uniform today.

[Threelions]

What a messy pile of horse crap this is turning into. I think a major concern for the us has to be that they have shown other "insurgents" how to go about gaining victories. I also think its a bit dubious putting an ex "regime" member in charge.. Watch out!

Cheers

[FallenAngel]

Not to mention the ~60 Marines and Navy Corpsmen who died for nothing...

....f*cking politicians. :fork:

[Chris1]

...and there was me thinking it was their country.
How silly of me.
Putting this guy in charge might not be a good thing
Putting the Iraqi's in charge most definately is.

[ShadowNeo]

Couldn't they have given him some kind of new uniform? I mean, letting him stroll back in wearing the old regime's uniform isn't exactly going to give the best signals.

[afrographX]

I know you will kill me for that comparison, but this iraquization of the war in iraq has definitly some simliarities to the vietnamization of the vietnam war.
I doubt very much that iraqi troops will be able to improve the situation in falluja, because they have worse equipment and training then the us-forces. Especially if the army is as loyal and motivated as the new police.
May be the situation will calm down, but the insurgents will surely not get defeated by the iraqi army.

[He219]

I think that this is a positive development. The old flag and uniforms are trivial.

What we need now are a couple of Republican Guard/elite Army divisions to clean up in Fallujah and the rest of Iraq.

The Iraqi Army should be reconstituted and empowered under leadership of a democratic and representative central Iraqi government.

I believe a major part of the insurection is due to the disolution of the Iraqi Army, Iraq's largest institution and employer. Put them to work for the interests of establishing security in Iraq under a new authority and continue with the international rebuilding efforts of their nation. I bet you with their cooperation, a whole lot of weapons and facts will be accounted for.

Nobody wants to be occupied.

[Chris1]

woot
couldn't agree more.

I think that this is a positive development. The old flag and uniforms are trivial.

What we need now are a couple of Republican Guard/elite Army divisions to clean up in Fallujah and the rest of Iraq.

The Iraqi Army should be reconstituted and empowered under leadership of a democratic and representative central Iraqi government.

I believe a major part of the insurection is due to the disolution of the Iraqi Army, Iraq's largest institution and employer. Put them to work for the interests of establishing security in Iraq under a new authority and continue with the international rebuilding efforts of their nation. I bet you with their cooperation, a whole lot of weapons and facts will be accounted for.

Nobody wants to be occupied.

[Romulus]

Deal Is Reached to Cede Control of City to Iraqi Troops

Bad move.

[Maverick77]

Insurgents see this as a victory


Just as the first marines were leaving they all busted out giving victory signs and ****.

[American Patriot]

So? This is the Iraqi's fight, not ours. Same goes for al-Sadr.

The question is, will and can the RG general's 'army' kill the 2,000~ insurgent fighters in fallujah?

[Maverick77]

so you cant fight in a city have 100s of you men killed or in a ****ing wheel chair or brain damadged or some bull**** like that.

and then let the enemy think they won.

[HELEX]

So? This is the Iraqi's fight, not ours. Same goes for al-Sadr.

The question is, will and can the RG general's 'army' kill the 2,000~ insurgent fighters in fallujah?

No,they wont kill the 200,000 iraqi fighters. Tey will just shake each others Hand and thats all. :cantbeli:

[American Patriot]

that's what I ask, will this former RG asshole actively pursue and kill the ~2000 insurgents?

[HELEX]

that's what I ask, will this former RG asshole actively pursue and kill the ~2000 insurgents?

Definitively not, it is "Peace" now there. And there are at least 200,000 Insurgents there not 2000, do you really think they cant throw 2000 out of the Town?

[Maverick77]

I wouldnt go as far as 200,000 but probley more than 2000

[American Patriot]

Are you a ****ing moron? 200,000 insurgents? Think before you type.

[HELEX]

Are you a f*** moron? 200,000 insurgents? Think before you type.

Ok, maybe only more than 400,000 in the whole country. This 200,000 number is just for Falludja.

Do you really think they would pull out if they only were 2000? :roll:

[venture160]

its 2,000 insurgents, and the marines could have easily won the battle. they pulled out because the political rammifacations would have been horrendous, it would have been like an arabic army invading the vatican, thats how holy this city is in the shiite world. Plus we would have lost a large number of soldiers in the operation, good move on our part, i really think we made the right move here, now it makes sadr look like an idiot.

[Uncle Sam]

200,000 rofl Holy shi'ite !

[ibstolidude]

that's what I ask, will this former RG asshole actively pursue and kill the ~2000 insurgents?

Definitively not, it is "Peace" now there. And there are at least 200,000 Insurgents there not 2000, do you really think they cant throw 2000 out of the Town?

You talk out your ass - please post how you happen to know there are 200,000 insurgents in Fallujah.

and only 400,000 in all of Iraq, huh? Is this the majority you often speak of?

[LordHalbert]

What this whole "deal" really means is that the USA/Coalition is negotiating with the terrorists.

The rebels/terrorists have in essence won even though they have lost more people.

The terrorists groups in the city will now exert influence accross the country and the USA from now on will have less influence in Iraq.

This was not just a fight for a city, it was fight for control over the whole nation and it's future.

[vikingblade]

the insurgents see this as a victory. the arab media will advertise this as a victory. the arab world will see this as a victory. ya know what...i see it as a freakin victory too. because it is. they stood up to the U.S. challenge and we backed down, simply because of politics. and an election year. we issued a warning and an ultimatum, they did not comply. didnt even ceasefire. we negotiated with terrorists and gave in. we know we can wipe them out, but, all that matters is what the insurgents think.... this will cause more insurgent uprisings. same way the bs in mogidishu caused bin ladin to seriously target the U.S. he saw that under political pressure and taking U.S. casualties, we cave. the message....attack U.S., hang tough, boo hoo the religious angle, kill some americans... U.S. will go away.

THESE ANIMALS SMELL WEAKNESS. ALL THEY UNDERSTAND IS POWER.

BIG MISTAKE.

THEY WILL NEVER RESPECT US...NEVER. WE NEED TO MAKE THEM FEAR US.

[obd]

Well I dont see the "old" uniform as trivial......I think it is highly symbolic that he chose to come to Fallujah in his old uniform and symbolizes that the bathist regime and its huge beaucracy is far from dead.... On the contrary it will probably be seen as a great victory that, after all the trouble the Marines went to in order to secure that town and all the rhetoric about "eliminating ounce and for all the armed groups and holdouts" who should show up but a high ranking Bathist General IN HIS OLD UNIFORM...............................

What next? Are we gonna bring back Saddam so he can establish order?? Jeezuz what am embarrassing situation....

[SFontaine]

The reason the Marines have been sitting on their hands is they don't want big time casualties. If 100 American servicemen died in one day to take back Fallujah killing all the insurgents it would be a major loss in the eyes of the people back home. Look at Mogadishu. 18 Americans to a couple thousand Somalis and all objectives achieved and people called that a "military disaster".

[vikingblade]

The reason the Marines have been sitting on their hands is they don't want big time casualties. If 100 American servicemen died in one day to take back Fallujah killing all the insurgents it would be a major loss in the eyes of the people back home. Look at Mogadishu. 18 Americans to a couple thousand Somalis and all objectives achieved and people called that a "military disaster".

it WAS a disaster, the terrorist gang leader who ran the place and directed the attacks was left in power. the terrorist, extremist world took mogadishu as a blueprint on how to defeat america. number of dead means nothing to these people. human life means nothing. they look at it as driving out the U.S. We should have leveled that place!

as far as the marines sitting on their hands to avoid casualities....trust me, i know from marines on the ground, if it was up to them, they would have gone in hard a long time ago. its the polictical bs making these decisions, not the marines. they are not happy about a pullout. theve lost alot of good marines over this.


"The essence of war is violence. Moderation in war is imbecility." -Admiral John Fisher

"There is only one tactical principle which is not subject to change. It is to use the means at hand to inflict the maximum amount of wound, death, and destruction on the enemy in the minimum amount of time."
- General George Patton Jr

"If the enemy is to be coerced, you must put him in a situation that is even more unpleasant than the sacrifice you call on him to make. The hardships of the situation must not be merely transient - at least not in appearance. Otherwise, the enemy would not give in, but would wait for things to improve."
- Carl Von Clausewitz

Once we have a war there is only one thing to do. It must be won. For defeat brings worse things than any that can ever happen in war.
--Ernest Miller Hemmingway--

"It is fatal to enter a war without the will to win it." - General Douglas MacArthur

[AFG]

its 2,000 insurgents, and the marines could have easily won the battle. they pulled out because the political rammifacations would have been horrendous, it would have been like an arabic army invading the vatican, thats how holy this city is in the shiite world. Plus we would have lost a large number of soldiers in the operation, good move on our part, i really think we made the right move here, now it makes sadr look like an idiot.

question: how does sadr look like an idiot? i m not up to date in his speeches what did he say?

[MetalBoy]

that's what I ask, will this former RG asshole actively pursue and kill the ~2000 insurgents?

Definitively not, it is "Peace" now there. And there are at least 200,000 Insurgents there not 2000, do you really think they cant throw 2000 out of the Town?

You talk out your ass - please post how you happen to know there are 200,000 insurgents in Fallujah.

and only 400,000 in all of Iraq, huh? Is this the majority you often speak of?

Guys I think KLEENEX is trying to say that the US views all the civilians in Fallujah as insurgents, which is horse****. Last i heard there were 200,000 innocent civilians left in town.

[Scottie]

But its Najaf thats the holy city....?

[radon]

Fallujah is a holy city for Sunnis and has over 200 mosques. Najaf is holy for Shiïtes.

[WanderingNomad]

It sure looked weird when this Saddam-style general drove into Fallujah ...

He could at least have waved that new 'Iraqi' flag instead of the old one ;)

[vikingblade]

how the hell do we know how many insurgents, terrorists, blah, blah are in falluja.... how many danced in the streets and dragged american bodies through the streets. how many support, hide em. look, if the people of that town were against the insurgents actions....they wouldnt tolerate em. how bout blaming the terrorists that brought the U.S. hammer down on their city in the first place.... we werent screwing with them until they decided to kill 4 americans in the streets of falluja, celebrate it and string the bodies up on display.

as clint eastwood said... if your gonna decorate your saloon with the dead body of my friend, you better arm yourself.

violent public displays of open defiance to the U.S. occupation should never be tolerated and be crushed immediately. are we playing patty cake here!

you dont want U.S. Marines surrounding and patroling your city, then dont fukin attack our people. you dont want our planes dropping bombs on your home....then dont support and aid those who attack our people. if i go out and shoot a cop in cold blood, my ass will be dead. guess what, brought it down on myself.

whether these morons know it or not, we are there to try and help them live like modern, normal human beings. their way does not work. religion is no way to run a government. thats a fact.

[vikingblade]

Well...the marines have pulled out. now what happens. heres what...
from FOX NEWS ONLINE

"Scores of Iraqis gathered in the streets Saturday morning, some flashing "V" for victory signs and raising the Iraqi flag. Motorists drove through the streets, shouting "Islam, it's your day!" and "We redeem Islam with our blood!"

Some were masked with kuffeyahs and raised automatic weapons, members of the insurgency that put up stiff resistance against the Marines. Some guerrillas drove through the city, honking horns and waving their guns out the windows"

Now, whatever hardcore foreign and local terrorists that the marines had surrounded will go where they wish.

The entire city sees this as a victory over the U.S.

"It is fatal to enter a war without the will to win it."
- General Douglas MacArthur

"There is only one tactical principle which is not subject to change. It is to use the means at hand to inflict the maximum amount of wound, death, and destruction on the enemy in the minimum amount of time."
- General George Patton Jr

Once we have a war there is only one thing to do. It must be won. For defeat brings worse things than any that can ever happen in war.
--Ernest Miller Hemmingway